Hmmm... Y'know, there might be some advantages to the Soddy way of doing things...
Saudi authorities have arrested the spokesman for the team defending three reformists currently on trial in the kingdom, according to a statement issued by a local human rights group. Abdulrahman Al Lahem, who was already banned from leaving the country, was arrested on Saturday, Saudi Human Rights First said late on Sunday. Lahem was an outspoken member of the team defending Abdullah Al Hamed, Ali Al Demaini and Matruk Al Faleh, arrested on March 16. The lawyer had repeatedly criticised judicial practices during the trial, mainly in statements to the Qatar-based Al Jazeera television channel.
Who does this guy think he is, defending a defendant?
Lahem's arrest follows the sending of a letter by the defendants to Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdulaziz complaining that they were not getting a fair trial and proposing moves to make it open. The trio, who went on trial in Riyadh on August 9, are charged with "issuing statements and collecting as many signatures as possible on petitions" calling for change in the kingdom. They are also accused of calling for the adoption of a constitutional monarchy and "using Western terminology" in demanding political reforms.
There's the big lumber.
They also allegedly questioned a provision in the basic statute of government which says the king is head of the judiciary.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/09/2004 12:28:07 AM ||
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BRITAIN'S toughest jail is to build a £1.6million mosque for prisoners including hook-handed preacher Abu Hamza. Muslim inmates at Belmarsh Prison, who include Hamza and other suspected al-Qaeda terrorists, have objected to praying in a multi-denominational chapel where they have to cover up Christian crosses. Now prison chiefs have controversially agreed to give them a separate place of worship with its own dome and minaret. Detailed plans for the 150ft x 150ft site on a former pig farm disused land will be put before Greenwich Borough Council for approval after the Prison Service gave the green light. The mosque is expected to be built next year.
Yesterday Brian Caton, General Secretary of the Prison Officers Association, attacked the decision. He said: "We recognise the Prison Service's obligation to provide places of worship. However, we don't believe that spending a huge amount of money at this time is in the best interests of prisoners or staff. At a time when prison overcrowding is running wild, contagious diseases are massively on the increase and we have financial problems in prisons, to identify the £1.6million for a mosque for a single denomination is clearly wrong. What would serve prisoners better would be to expand existing areas to ensure that they can be used by all denominations. This is clearly a waste of money. The money should be used for something else worthwhile not so these people can pray in such luxury. Nobody else is having a new building built for them, we don't have a synagogue, for example." The source added: "This is political correctness gone mad just because they have kicked up a stink. This isn't a makeshift building, it's a full-on mosque. Staff are totally disheartened at pandering again to the prisoners."
He makes total sense. So, how long before he's fired?
Posted by: tipper ||
11/09/2004 4:10:47 AM ||
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#1
"This is clearly a waste of money."
Yep. Taxpayers' money. Funking scandal alright.
Nice to see The Mirror's not devoting itself to slandering British forces any more. Getting rid of Piers "Human Filth" Morgan was the best thing it's done in decades.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
11/09/2004 4:48 Comments ||
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#3
'In August Governor Geoff Hughes sent a letter to inmates apologising for putting pork, forbidden for Muslims and Jews on the menu. He ordered the meat to be removed from the menus of ALL prisoners'
Eek did that mean no bacon sarnies for anyone . sheesh am sure a few 'cat a' prisoners would be unhappy about that , I know i would be furious . And with the proposed mosque within throwing distance of cat a building theres a ray of hope that it will get trashed /burnt to ground
and as prophet Mohammed said 'The whole world is a mosque meaning that Muslims can pray anywhere that is clean. ' Its pretty clean in a 12x6 cell .
The taxpayers money could be used to fund something worthwhile , like a decent governor for the rison and not some lame arsed appeaser like Geoff Hughes .
#4
£1.6million would buy a nice pile of body armor and, y'know, Kevlar helmets... I always feel so bad that your lot's wearing those soft cloth Frenchie-looking beanies...
As for Hookie, you should've let us extradite him so he can be put down like a rabid dog, since, um, well, he is a rabid dog.
#10
whadda disgrace. every religion should protest now till they get equal money: jews, hindus, catholics, c/e, lutherans, buddhists.... atheists should protest to get a library...
Islamists have had a jail policy to convert prisoners for decades: they make the best expendible jihadis after all.
Mosques should be banned in jails period, not paid for.
#11
No, no, no! Atheists need a small wild wood, with a field of wildflowers, a meandering brook leading to a pond full of frogs and small fish, with kingfishers diving from the overhanging branches, and deep, velvety darkness at night in which the stars can be seen burning overhead. In order to appreciate Nature in all its natural, evolved glory, y'see. It would be good if this area were not walled off from the outside world as well, lest Nature be entrapped by the short-term needs of Man. The library is for all to share, as it always has been. The Jews, on the other hand, just need a room within which East can be faced. (As a people, we're a cheap date. As wives, of course, we are at least as expensive as any other -- but that's a veeeery different discussion ;-).
"..Nobody else is having a new building built for them, we donât have a synagogue, for example." quoth the source.
I imagine that there aren't many Jews in prison eh? Funny how a big portion of the population is Muslim, isn't it? And by the way, I say we combine the money to build a mosque, let them pray there, and then release the rapid spreading diseases that are supposedly spreading in the prison population within the mosque. Sounds like a good use of 1.6 million to me, eh?
Posted by: BA ||
11/09/2004 14:25 Comments ||
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#16
I'd like to make bid on the moskk. 3 gets you 5 I can build it better and cheaper.
A good piece on comparison of the two states military abilities in the 21s century,
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
11/09/2004 9:43:10 AM ||
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#1
An interesting piece. The writer dropped a few tidbits, too, like "During the Cold War, when Russian officers were directly engaged in combat with the Israelis as jet fighter pilots and military advisers to the Egyptian and Syrian military and antiaircraft missile battery crews, they sometimes got killed or wounded in action."
The conclusion is a bit odd, though, "Although the Israelis already have it all, they are actually further away from victory or an end to the conflict than we are in Chechnya." Obligatory antisemitic remark, or is there a deeper meaning that I am missing?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/09/2004 10:42 Comments ||
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#3
I think what it means is that the russians don't have the international PR problem in Chechnya that the Israelis have: No UN votes to get out of Chechnya, no EU demanding that Russia give concessions to Chechens to prove good faith, No world pressure to submit to a Roadmap, No ISM/Rachel Corries protesting Russian actions, no delicate and careful handling of Nobel Peace Prize winning terrorists, No BBC or other liberal papers hollering and screaming at the elimination of every terrorist, etc..
Compared to Israel's situation, Russia is indeed in a much better position to eliminate their problem than Israel is. Heck, if they had Israel's military capabilities, they'd have solved their problem many moons ago.
Then again, if the Communists DID have Israel's military capabilities, we in the west would have been toast...
#5
Then again, if we are to believe that the Israelis are God's 'Chosen' people, who can stand before Jehovah, 'the Lord Of Hosts' to add petition? Neither Nimrod, Alexander The Great, or Hitler!
#6
According to Jewish lore, Great Alex was one of the good guys, who respected our religion and our people. Lots of Jewish boys are still named Alexander in his memory.
I was always taught that being Jewish is not a requirement to stand before the Lord -- I think it was Amos who wrote, "God requires of us that we do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God" (I'm afraid I'm still struggling with that humble bit, myself). My mother-in-law says that Jesus came to give non-Jews a way to join the Covenant, but that's not something I'm qualified to have an opinion on. Ptah, among others, could better address that.
At any rate, I come from the "God helps those who help themselves," school of thought, and prefer to arrange things so that God doesn't have to take a hand in earthly affairs on our behalf.
#7
Thats true, trailing wife, but remember the reason Alexander The Great was 'cut down' by the LORD, was because of his ambition to rebuild in splender, Babylon! God had decreed 200 years earlier (through the prophet Daniel) that Babylon would never be rebuilt!
#8
Obligatory antisemitic remark, or is there a deeper meaning that I am missing?
Um, I'd bet my last ruble that Pavel Felgenhauer is jewish. Which is, in the eyes of most Russians, distinct from being "Russian."
His point is probably that if the Russian army were even one-tenth as well-organized, trained, led and motivated as the IDF, they would cruch the Chechens within a matter of weeks. Westerners have no idea how deep the rot is within the Russian military. It is an incompetent, corrupt, throughly demoralized and degraded parody of a fighting force. Note the Russian general's comment: After the Beslan school attack, Vasilyev visited Israel with a Russian security delegation and publicly heaped praise on Israel for having what we do not: "A sober society with a clear national idea."
Russia is a failing state propped up by high oil prices. Pakistan north.
#9
Thanks, Trailing Wife. However, I won't go into the spiel here to spare Fred's bandwidth, but your MIL is correct. Salvation has always been via the Jews, either by being one, becoming one, or believing the one who was also the Son of God.
My take, personally, is that God helps those who ask through the proper channels, are ready to receive the help, and who will give Him the credit when it all works out.
Of course, it DOES get scary at times. God, in my experience, is never late.
Not really a spittle piece - more of a demented harangue kind o' piece. 43 bazillion RBU credits to anyone who can restate this such that it makes sense to normal native English-speakers. heh. American English preferred, plz! KCNA -- The All-People Committee for the Proper Liquidation of the Past reportedly called a press conference for "the declaration of a struggle to fully achieve a law on the proper liquidation of the past" in Seoul on Nov. 2, demanding that the political quarters buckle down to a comprehensive liquidation of the past. The declaration read out at the press conference noted that the conservative forces including the Grand National Party were shunning the liquidation of the past because they sought to defend their interests, swimming against the trend of the times towards the settlement of the grudges of the people who had to die tragic death at the hand of the power in the past.
When a new society should be sought, not a step forward can be made without properly clarifying numerous scandals and murder cases distorted and concealed by the dictatorial power in the past, said the declaration. Vowing to fight undauntedly against the political forces trying to avoid a proper liquidation of the past and distort its real nature, it urged the ruling party get to work for a comprehensive liquidation of past and all the political circles demanding the liquidation cooperate with each other for a democratic reform. All the conscientious forces and bereaved families of those who fell in the fight for democracy and democratic organizations should rise up in the campaign for the institution of a law for the proper liquidation of the past, it stressed. "Have you seen the past?"
"No."
"You'd better hurry - they're cleaning it, you know." -Firesign Theater
Posted by: .com ||
11/09/2004 8:32:26 AM ||
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#1
I'm sure this makes perfect sense in Korean.
Posted by: ed ||
11/09/2004 9:20 Comments ||
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#2
Sounds to me like a "Truth and Reconciliation" kind of scheme, ala South Africa and various places in South America. The phrase liquidation of the past sounds appropriately Orwellian though.
#3
sounds like there's a liquidation sale going on, on past models of the past. They've got next years' models of the past coming on the lot and there's no place to put 'em. They're BLOWING THEM OUT! Get Juche now!
did I win?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/09/2004 9:52 Comments ||
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#4
It sounds as though they are going to convert the past into cash assets. A neat trick, that. Probably trying to take advantage of the post-election jump in stocks.
#5
TRANSLATION: "All your base are belong to us"...?
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
11/09/2004 10:46 Comments ||
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What was the name of the first Chinese Emperor? The one who burned all the books, so that he would be the beginning of all knowledge? Sounds like the Norks are getting just as crazy to me...
#9
If you liquidate the past, do you remember that you liquidated the past, or do reliquidate the past again because you liquidated the memory of liquidating the past in the past? Just asking.
Posted by: john ||
11/09/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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Frank G Wins because he said the magic word...
JUCHE
We comprehensively liquidate the past to create fresh, steaming Juche for all to drink
Holland's Muslim community has rallied to condemn 'extremism' and call for unity after an outspoken filmmaker was killed by a suspected Dutch Muslim. A 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan has been charged with last week's murder of Theo van Gogh, whose criticism of Islam angered Muslims. Van Gogh is due to be cremated later on Tuesday in a ceremony to be broadcast live on television. Hundreds of people have laid flowers, candles and notes at the spot where Van Gogh was killed. They also left cactuses, a tribute to the filmmaker's prickly nature, and bottles of beer. Dozens of people circled the site on Tuesday.
About 60 young Dutch Muslims wearing orange T-shirts reading "We won't put up with extremism any more" cycled through Amsterdam stopping at mosques to protest against the murder. They then joined a Dutch-Moroccan rally of several hundred in a park near the street where Van Gogh was killed. "Muslims in Amsterdam are very worried and afraid but we want to say that we are part of the community and we are not going to tolerate or accept this," said Samira Abbos, a 34-year-old Dutch-Moroccan television presenter. A wave of arson attacks has targeted at least eight mosques since the killing and a Muslim school in Eindhoven was badly damaged in a small bomb blast on Monday. Police said they suspected the school attack was in retaliation for the murder.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred ||
11/09/2004 4:20:58 PM ||
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#1
Hmmm, they can manage to pull together muslims against this and our muslim communities can't.
#2
Very good to see this sort of thing, but the protests and displays or rejection have to be accompanied by actions. Muslims have to show the same willingness to cooperate with the Dutch authorities as is expected from the rest of the society. If your neighbours are up to no good, it doesn't matter whether they're the same faith or ethnicity as you - report them. If there are bad apples in the basket with you, push them out.
#3
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but I suspect the Muslim leadership realized that they lacked sufficient numbers, resources, and leverage (for the moment) to win this battle.
#4
I'll believe they mean it when we see a raft of arrests of islamic terroristsw and criminal that have been turned in by fellow muslims. I would not hold my breath.
A SECRET EU plot to wreck Nato and torpedo the UK's influence in Europe was sensationally laid bare by Spain's Prime Minister yesterday. He vowed his country would stand shoulder to shoulder with fellow Iraq war weasels France and Germany — to dictate a common EU defence policy that would leave Britain sidelined.
Ummm... Been there, done that. Waterloo... Waterloo... That's in Belchium, isn't it?
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero brazenly declared the ultimate aim was to challenge America.
Been there, too. Done that. Remember the Maine!
He declared: "Europe must believe that it can be in 20 years the most important world power. We want to arrange the European future at the side of France and Germany. Spain sees itself with France and Germany as never before."
Posted by: Anonymoose ||
11/09/2004 11:46:22 AM ||
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#1
"Europe must believe that it can be in 20 years the most important world power."
EUrophiles believe a whole lot of shit. Wouldn't want to begrudge them one more fantasy.
"But President George Bush showed what he thought of him when Zapatero phoned to congratulate him on his election victory. Mr Bush refused to come on the line."
LOL! I hadn't heard that before. No wonder Mr Bean's playing the Dr Evil.
Even better, when the defense portion of that "constitution" was being written, changes were made, dropped off in the wee hours. The document was in frog and the Brit refused to sign anything until she read the translation.
#5
"Europe must believe that it can be in 20 years the most important world power."
Just as long as they believe, then it's okey-dokey.
By the way, according to the CIA World Factbook, Spain spends $9.9 billion on defense, Germany $35 billion and France $45 billion. The USA? $399 billion or 3.9% of GDP.
Looks like the Euros are going to have to give up something if they think they're going to be top dog.
#8
I'd love to hear Zapatero's posse explain (in detail and in practical terms) why their vision, their plan for the EU defense policy is so good. We should invite such an explanation, patiently listen, and then disassemble its weak premises in front of as much media as possible. And leave a nagging doubt in the EU's heads on how such moves would damage US Europe/relations in areas where they can't afford to be so boastful and rash.
#9
If true then the EU will have to seriously deal with their welfare state / plus thier declining populations (means they must accept/assimilate immigrants - and that is not going to happen with their superior than thou attitudes) ..they cannot afford both their socialist institutions and a military to back up these statements...the US should just cut out of europe and focus our diplomacy on the real center of gravity for the next century..pacific/indian subcontinent.
Posted by: Dan ||
11/09/2004 12:47 Comments ||
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#10
OUr response? Extra Green Cards for Strivers from France Germany and Spain. These are enemy countries and nothing could do more to assure their long term defeat.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/09/2004 12:59 Comments ||
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#11
"I'm sorry, who were you holding for?"
The EUros will have to spend some money if they want a real defense capability. Why should the US pay for their defense any more? BTW, how much defense do you need if you're not willing to commit your troops?
#12
Well, at least they'll have a good headstart. They're only 50 years behind in weapon systems. They put all the money they saved, by us footing the bill on their defense, into their "going bankrupt" social systems. I'd love to see where they get the money for that when they don't have 2 euro cents to rub toghether.
To top that off, they'll have the only alliance partner in the world that has nukes and STILL can't get any respect. Right France? lol
#13
Actually in tanks and AFVs UK, Germany, France Italy and Poland are on par with the USA. It is in the small arms systems, tactical aricraft and the strategic recon systems that the Euros lag behind.
#14
dictate a common EU defence policy that would leave Britain sidelined.
If Britain wants to be outside a common EU defense policy, how is that the fault of the rest of the continent?
His comments were a huge blow to Tony Blair, who has fought to make the UK, Germany and France the key power-trio in Europe.
UK isn't involved in either the EMU, nor in Schengen. In other policies, if there are opt-outs from European integration that exist anywhere, you can be sure that UK has gotten them. Many countries have opt-outs in *some* matters, it's only UK that has opt-out in pretty much every matter.
So, how much could it ever be central, when UK wants at the same time to remain forever on the edge? Either position is an honorable one, but only a fool could think that both are possible at the same time.
Its The Sun. How much can this be trusted
I'd trust it about one quarter as much as I'd trust Baghdad Bob. And that's giving The Sun too much credit.
If you'd been able to read the Sun Article removing all the commentary, you'd have seen that what the Sun means "secret EU plot to wreck Nato and torpedo the UKâs influence in Europe" is the very thing most Rantburgers been asking of Europe -- the desire to have it increase its military capabilities and coordination so that it can take up its share of the burden.
#15
Actually Aris, we just make fun of the fact that the Euros have no military capability. That doesn't mean we want them to build those capabilites given their recent history. Especially since the indication is they want to build those capabilites to challenge us...
#19
Was reading a Le Monde editorial last week re W's victory. Monsieur Colambani himself of Nous sommes tous Americains fame. He's frustrated and pissed off, dangerous combination.
He basically said that US doesn't have to listen to EU on anything unless US want to. To make US listen, Euros have to have a credible military. No talk on how to achieve this result, however. Typical. So, BH, your 20-year comment is most appropriate. Also didn't address willingness to use military. So, Spot, your comment is quite correct.
Can we all see why these folks were hoping so badly for JFK to be elected?
The word "contrepoids" (counterweight) cropped up consistently in many of LM's articles. I tell you what, JFK's constant whining about not being respected was sure wrong. We're not liked, but we sure as hell are respected now. W needs to make full use of his capital. Old Europe would moan, whine, and try to get its MSM cronies here to act up. In other words, W's path has been pretty well cleared of obstacles as long as he can take media heat. Just look at Jacques wanting to retreat from Ivory Coast. To be fair, French soldiers on the ground don't want to throw in the towel.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
11/09/2004 13:36 Comments ||
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#20
Aris-You are right that we've been griping about Europe contributing more and sharing the burden. But the language about the ultimate aim being a challenge to US power, rather than a complementary force alongside US power, is most revealing.
#21
So, are they really going to do anything to actually build an armed force of some kind, or is he just having a public hissy because he was put on terminal hold?
Methinks it's just a hissy.....
#22
Sounds to me like a harangue to the faithful on the lines of a Comintern meeting in the thirties. You have to know the secret codewords and who is the top dog to really know who is pissing on what leg. I truly do not believe the Europeans will be able to break away from the welfare state without an internal upheaval, more than just shuffling the cabinet positions. They are looking inwards in retreat from the world's problems unable to face what is going to happen to them when the SHTF.
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
11/09/2004 14:23 Comments ||
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#23
RE: #13
Badanov,
In terms of numbers your statement is correct, but actually they're far from "on a par" with the US in tanks and AFVs in terms of quality or effectiveness. There are two main reasons for this:
1) we've greatly greatly upgraded our electronic systems since the end of the Cold War while they've largely remained stagnant. This affects both the fire control systems and the "command and control" systems of which "Blue Force Tracker" is the low level example. Not even the Brits can fully interoperate with us.
2. Our levels of training are FAR higher than theirs are and as a result our people would be MUCH more effective on a unit by unit basis.
Both of these could be addressed, of course, but they will take time and resources. I'm not certain, but I think that France, Germany, and Spain still have a draft, and that would also have to change if they're to achieve equal quality. The Brits are, of course, completely long-service professionals and extremely good up to the limits of their equipment.
The base is there, but it's got "a way to go" to achieve equality.
Other major shortfalls on their part are strategic "lift" either air or sea based, and tactical recon systems such as UAVs. (We weren't first into the UAV business by any means, but we're into them big time now, and have really integrated them into our operations.) The lack of any recent combat experience is also an issue. (The Italians have been working with us, as have
the Brits, but France & Germany are way out of touch.)
Of course, all of these can be addressed, but it will take RESOURCES and as others have pointed out, it's highly questionable if they'll make that committment in time to meet Zaptero's 20 year timeline.
Posted by: Ralph Tacoma ||
11/09/2004 14:41 Comments ||
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#24
They can be on par with the US material wise - but they have demonstrated a lack judgement and purpose. The populations will required to deploy massively and resolutly is also lacking.
Besides in 20 years the transformation to Eurostan will be well on its way, so the whole mess (except the UK) will be turning into a bigger shithole than it is now.
#25
This is ludicrous. What good are tanks without any airlift capabilities or aircraft carriers? Germany needed to borrow a Tupolev from Uzbekhistan to get its gear over to Afghanistan.
The Euros are at least 20, probably 25+ years behind us, and the gap's widening each year. Their pension and health care systems are already approaching bankruptcy (the French health care system is already broke), and their economic growth is in the 1% range. There is simply no realistic scenario under which the Europeans can challenge us militarily AND avoid destroying the institution that in their minds sets them apart from us, the welfare state. In other words, the only way for the Euros to challenge the American hypercapitalist monster is to become hypercapitalist themselves. Ain't gonna happen.
Long past time we quit wasting so much bandwidth and diplomatic resources on these can't help us, can't hurt us jokers and shifted much more of our attention to the theaters that really matter in this century: the subcontinent and the far east. India is more important to our security and prosperity than France. Shift 500 or more State Dept professionals from Paris to New Delhi, asap. Asian Century now. Look eastward, 'mericans.
#27
Jules> language about the ultimate aim being a challenge to US power, rather than a complementary force alongside US power, is most revealing.
That was the language of *The Sun* ofcourse, not of any European politician, certainly not of Aznar. So if it reveals anything, that's Sun's ridiculous bias.
If there's a sentence inside quotes, then you can probably trust it to be accurate. But when they don't use quotes, that's Sun's *interpretation* of what was 'really meant' -- meaning pure Sun propaganda.
In this case the quote "Europe must believe that it can be in 20 years the most important world power." was interpreted by Sun as "Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero brazenly declared the ultimate aim was to challenge America"
#30
Aris, thanks for the perspective on the Sun's trustworthyness.
AzCat, et al, do have a good point, though: Europe can only become the most important world power either by surpassing the U.S. in military manpower, materiel and training -- a very expensive proposition for a society struggling with current social obligations -- or by undermining U.S. efforts. Not a very comfortable choice. Not one I am happy to see Europe's putative leadership putting in the balance.
However, until they reach that point, any effort to improve their military capabilities is all to the good, I think. By improving their military capabilities, they give themselves options besides talk-talk to resolve issues such as Iran's nukes, or the Yugoslavian quagmire. Even the contemplation of such options can loosen the mental strictures Western Europe has assiduously developed post-WWII. Perhaps in time they will come to see that there is an intermediate stage between craven peace and world war.
#32
Aris, thanks for the perspective on the Sun's trustworthyness
What does Aris know about the Sun's trustworthiness? Can he give examples of actual substantial factual inaccuracies in their reporting? Outright lies? Obviously it's a paper with a distinct bias, but just because that bias isn't to Aris's taste, he comes out with ridiculous crap like I'd trust it about one quarter as much as I'd trust Baghdad Bob. And that's giving The Sun too much credit; a bit of tabloid interjection in its reportage makes the whole topic dismissable as pure Sun propaganda. He was saying the same sort of ill-informed crap about the Telegraph a year or so ago. He's quitened down about that. If Aris actually bought UK papers, he'd be an Independent or Guardian reader. Am I not right, Mr Katsaris? If he had to chose a tabloid, it'd be the Mirror rather than the Sun. It wasn't the Sun which excitedly published hoax photos suggesting that British troops were engaged in abuse of prisoners in Iraq, and then subsequently had to humiliatingly sack its outspoken left-wing editor, was it? I'd say Aris's opinions about British newspapers are about as useful as Baghdad Bob's observations on the Greek press.
#33
Aris, this counterweight talk isn't something new, especially after 9/11- if you know what to read. I even think our "good friend" Dom might have mentioned it at the UN. Or our "historical ally" Jacques.
--To make US listen, Euros have to have a credible military. No talk on how to achieve this result, however. --
Heck, I'd just take credible. At least their weight in humanitarian aid.
But that recent survey said it all, yes, we want to be a counterweight - 70ish %.
Upping military budget - falls to about 50%.
However, throw some of the Russian tech into the mix, was it ever determined what went thru that tank and bounced around and how are we going to counteract it?
Plus, wasn't there just an article that the Chicoms and Paks' military jets are equivalent to our F-16s??? Due to our tech transfer, thank you Bubba!
#34
I don't know, BD. I think Aris is the type who' wrap a Mirror cover about the Sun while he studied page 3.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/09/2004 17:39 Comments ||
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Aris, thanks for the perspective on the Sun's trustworthyness.
Um, The Sun is a British paper. Aris has a rather large bug up his ass when it comes to the Brits; his assessment is hardly trustworthy on this issue.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/09/2004 17:46 Comments ||
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#36
I read this some place but can't remember where and I can't vouch for it's truth but Germans and French haven't created a "new" non government job in 10 years. The UK has. Lots of teh noise that France et all make it to distract their population from this fact. The anti-US tone of the media and "elites" is also a result of this poor economic condition.
The EU nations would love to have the military might to counter weight the US, they in no way can afford it however and would find very little public support for it. This may get me flamed but would the EU taking some responsibility for security in the world be a bad thing if they could afford it even if we didn't agree with them?
#37
Robert Crawford> "Um, The Sun is a British paper."
The Sun is a British *tabloid*, which is more to the point. Eveb more significantly The Sun is The Sun and I have judged it from past articles.
Bulldog> What does Aris know about the Sun's trustworthiness? Can he give examples of actual substantial factual inaccuracies in their reporting?
Sure, in the above article for example: "He vowed his country would stand shoulder to shoulder with fellow Iraq war weasels France and Germany â to dictate a common EU defence policy that would leave Britain sidelined."
I'm pretty sure that Aznar never state his country's purpose was "to dictate a common EU defence policy that would leave Britain sidelined". So, here's factual inaccuracy number one -- Sun claims he vowed something which I very much doubt he did.
Ofcourse since they don't use quotes, they are safe from being sued, hmm? I never said they're not nice users and abusers of language.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004513122,00.html "SLIPPERY Jacques Chirac attacked Tony Blair yesterday â and vowed to use the new EU Constitution to create a huge transatlantic rift with America. "
More factual inaccuracies:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004501116,00.html Under EU rules, rejection of one candidate means defeat for all 25 members of the new Commission â including openly-gay former Labour MP Peter Mandelson.
Nope, that's not what it means.
How, precisely, could Europe hope to be "the MOST IMPORTANT world power" without challenging America?
Language isn't for naught, AzCat, definitely not in the game of politics. There's a very specific difference between saying "I want to overthrow you" and saying "I want to be the best." The former is sheer obnoxious hostility, the latter is an issue of self-improvement.
The former is a call for hatred towards America, the latter is the natural desire for greatness that everyone aspires to. If you object to other nations or continents wanting to be The Best, that's your own problem and your own hostility.
#40
Having a goal to work toward is necessary to achieve excellence. A worthy challenger just makes one work harder. We've been written off before and have come back better than ever. Bring it on!
#42
Chuck, you took the words right out of my mouth... Aris... you do know that Aznar lost the Spanish election in what is widely regarded as a pathetic display of Spainish appeasment right? Zapatero not Aznar won.
#43
Btw, you're wrong Aris. Saying you want to be great or you want to improve is a desire to achieve greatness. Saying you want to be "the best" is a challenge to the current best.
#44
Saying you want to be "the best" is a challenge to the current best.
Particularly when your political culture is infused with a searing hatred of the current best.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/09/2004 20:17 Comments ||
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#45
He declared: "Europe must believe that it can be in 20 years the most important world power. We want to arrange the European future at the side of France and Germany. Spain sees itself with France and Germany as never before."
So speaketh the permanent junior-member and flunky of the French Club.
Don't keep it a secret - bring it right out in the open, guys.
NATO has outlived its usefulness. Go ahead and disband it; we'll set up agreements and alliances with those countries with whom we have common interests, and Frogistan et al. can run their mouths and pretend they're important.
It would save us money, too. Sounds like a win for us (AND Britain). Wonder who the losers would be? :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/09/2004 22:30 Comments ||
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#48
The only way the EU could be an important world power in 20 years would be if meteorites destroyed the US, China, India, Brazil, Australia, Brazil, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc. The Euros can't even get it together to make enough children to maintain their population, how do they think that they can become a world power with a shrinking, aging population. Wars are fought by young men. In 20 years, most of the young men in Europe will be from Asia. Best bet for Zapetero is to start a website like the Democratic Underground where like minded Euros can spin dreams of glory unhampered by reality.
#49
Chuck> Sorry, too many Iberian politicians to keep track of. Solana, Borrell, Barosso, Aznar, Zapatero... Guy's bound to get confused eventually ;-)
Btw, you're wrong Aris. Saying you want to be great or you want to improve is a desire to achieve greatness. Saying you want to be "the best" is a challenge to the current best.
Even with your argument, still hardly a "brazen declaration" of the same. If that's a brazen declaration, then what would be a subtle or modest declaration?
Remember that the newspiece was about the "sensational" laying-bare of the formerly-secret Plot to Kill NATO, as well as the "brazen declaration" of Zapatero's challenge to the USA. It's not enough to accuse continental Europeans of doing something, we also have to be presented in such a manner as to seem even more arrogant and shameless and belligerent about it than we already are.
The future, Samir believes, is grim. 'We are hated now,' the teenager said, leaning over the handlebars of his bicycle. 'Whatever we do will be wrong, everything we say will be wrong, everywhere we go will be wrong.' Samir was born in the Netherlands but is of Moroccan descent. He does not pray or go to a mosque, but says he is proud to be a Muslim and proud to be Dutch.
Oh, yeah? Lemme see your wooden shoes!
He is not alone in his fear and confusion. This weekend the nation known for its relaxed tolerance is gripped by tension, anger and insecurity. An outspoken film-maker, Theo van Gogh, was shot dead by a 26-year-old Dutch-born Muslim last Tuesday. Since then a series of public figures have been threatened with death by Islamic extremists. The murder has catalysed a steady erosion of the Dutch tradition of moderation and self-censorship on race and religion. Even politicians on the left spoke last week of 'harsh truths' on immigration, noting that 5 per cent of the population is now Muslim and saying 'foreigners' top the lists of criminality and truancy.
Just being nice doesn't work, does it?
One web-based book of condolences for van Gogh had to be shut down because of racist abuse. As he spoke, Samir waved towards the grim housing estate on the outskirts of Amsterdam where van Gogh's alleged killer lived. 'I don't know what happens now, but it isn't going to be good,' he said. Van Gogh's murder was apparently sparked by a documentary he made earlier this year with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born woman politician who calls herself 'an ex-Muslim'. The provocative film, broadcast on national television, featured quotes from the Koran, which Muslims believe is the word of God, projected on to a naked female body with a commentary composed of the testimonies of abused Muslim women. Van Gogh, a descendant of the artist Vincent van Gogh, was shot and then stabbed with a knife left pinning two notes to his body. Police say that one of them was a five-page letter accusing Hirsi Ali, who fled to the Netherlands to escape a forced marriage, of 'terrorising Muslims and Islam'.
Posted by: tipper ||
11/09/2004 10:06:42 AM ||
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#1
Observe what happens when progressive liberals get pushed to far. They snap and become the fascists they love to claim everyone else is. One of my biggest fears was that we would do nothing after 9/11 because of the liberal delusion. Then things would get really bad and after a few more major attacks the libs would snap and we'd go on a genocidal killing spree.
Liberals are guided by emotion, not logic, mostly. I remember right after 9/11 many of my liberal friends wanted to kill all muslims and arabs... didn't last long (only as long as they were afraid) but just shows their mindset.
#4
The future, Samir believes, is grim. âWe are hated now,â the teenager said, leaning over the handlebars of his bicycle. âWhatever we do will be wrong, everything we say will be wrong, everywhere we go will be wrong.â
It all depends on just what Samir has in mind. If al he's going to do is remain silent, unwilling to go on the record as being opposed to Muslim extremism, then his fears are going to be realized.
[Van Gogh's latest] film implies that the Dutch security services allowed Fortuyn to die, under pressure from American businesses anxious to conclude an arms deal that he opposed.
That's it! We'll blame the Americans! OK, now we're back in familiar territory, and all is well. Here's a viewpoint everyone can agree on! Whew!
#6
The future looks grim, never the less Samir doesn't have to worry to much as the demographic developments are in his favour. A large number of Dutch will leave the city areas and even go abroad. The number of emigration requests has risen big time in the last week. Let's see what will win sharia or democracy.....
#9
I think a bigger candlelight vigil, I mean a really big honker of symbolism is in order. We could reenforce them from the left coast with stiltmen, puppets and perhaps even a light pink tank squandron.
#10
The question is will the rest of Europe "get it" or feign taking the higher ground and chastise the impending (yet weak) changes will flow down the Dutch pipe.
Angie >> Well, it was either us or the Jooos, and they do have a Jewish Mayor. (SMILE)
"AMERICA! Less liked than the Jews!" Must be a first from the Euro point of view.
#12
[Van Gogh's last] film implies that the Dutch security services allowed Fortuyn to die, under pressure from American businesses anxious to conclude an arms deal that he opposed.
Holland and Europe's problem goes beyond their muslims. Clearly, there is a form of decadence afflicting their cultural and political classes that's inclined toward all manner of idiotic conspiracy theories. Pretty hard to unite your fellow citizens when you too believe in yankee zionist capitalist conspiracies.
#14
Ali, 34, is now protected by special police bodyguards, as is a second member of the Dutch parliament, a maverick rightwinger, who has also been critical of Islam. âI feel guilty... and very much afraid,â Ali told a Dutch newspaper after the killing. The second note indicated that the alleged murderer, known as Mohammed B, expected to be shot dead by police. âThis is my last word, bored through by bullets, anointed in blood as I hoped,â it reads.
The former is a call for hatred towards America, the latter is the natural desire for greatness that everyone aspires to. If you object to other nations or continents wanting to be The Best, that's your own problem and your own hostility.
#2
I really hope it is just what they usually do....give anonymous threats and do nothing.
I really, really hope that is what happens. Somehow, I don't think the Dutch are like the French and Spanish......I never thought they were the type to just run away.
Whatever the Dutch have been in the past they are now a soft society with a death wish. Have you heard of the instutionalized prostitution? Of drug use? (I think it is legal there). And one think who is definitely legal is euthanasia. Except that thousands of the "euthanasiated" DON'T want to be killed. But is so conevenient bothfor the heirs and for the welfare state that those murders aren't prosecuted. And then there is the abyssal birth rate. They aren't able to go through the sacrifices of raising children and you believe they will go through blood, toils, sweat and tears for their freedom?
#4
basically , stir up the dutch right wing and these moooslems are gonna have a major headache , and the poor old moderate mussies are gonna suffer , title is all wrong .. Dutch group issues islamic terror alert would be more suited :P
Quit the French-bashing and let's get to work, French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier told Americans Monday in an opinion piece published in The Wall Street Journal, titled "Letter to America." The sweeping appeal for greater political cooperation between the United States and Europe came a week after the candidate clearly favored by the French lost his bid for the White House, and two years after French opposition to the war on Iraq soured relations between the two historic allies. "I am writing to you as a friend of America," Barnier began, evoking historic and economic ties between the two nations dating back to the US war for independence.
You mean the one where France used Americans as cannon fodder against their old enemy England?
"Because of all the things that connect us, I'm concerned about the campaigns against my country, and the recent surge of 'French-bashing'," Barnier wrote. "I'm concerned to see both Americans and Europeans expressing doubts over the future of transatlantic relations, and I'm troubled to see that Europe is misunderstood, if not scorned, in the US," he said. "Let us recognise without animosity that the war in Iraq deeply divided us. The facts have been established and history will decide. But the important thing now is to turn Iraq into a real success story. France has no other aim."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
11/09/2004 4:13:39 AM ||
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"But Paris-based analysts warned that the long-term implications of Bushâs victory were disturbing for transatlantic relations, confirming the steady estrangement between an ideological, nationalistic America and a Europe built on softer and more consensual values."
I would have phrased that a little differently:
"Bush's victory was but one symptom of a deepening estrangement between an America awakened by 9/11 and determined to solve, once and for all, the problem of Islamic terrorism, and a Europe gone soft, flaccid and effete from years of nanny-state socialism."
Just a minor nit...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
11/09/2004 5:49 Comments ||
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#2
Awww, gee... just when we are having so much fun with it.
Tell you what, M.Barnier; do something to tone down the constant America-bashing coming out of your rancid intellectual ateliers and publications, and we'll think about it.
Until then, let the frog-bashing continue.
#4
The Frog is calling for a one-way outreach program from the USA to France. One-way outreach programs are demeaning. It suggests the USA has something to feel guilty about. We don't.
Posted by: Mark Z. ||
11/09/2004 7:01 Comments ||
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#9
Frog1: Stop.
Frog2: French.
Frog3: Bashing.
Lizard: Let me think about this carefully for awhile now. Here, hold this wire while I'm thinking.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/09/2004 7:18 Comments ||
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#10
It was interesting that the last time this doofus wrote something in the WSJ I posted at RB with my comment his e-mail address which was available at the embassy website. This time, no address. I guess he can dish it out but he can't take it. How gallic.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/09/2004 7:39 Comments ||
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#11
re Bashing.
Took a quick look at today's Lemonde.fr. I saw 2 articles about the US.
1. Fallouja: the US troops advance with difficulty Inhabitants confirmed that the American forces penetrated of at least a kilometer inside Fallouja and that they are not far from the center of the city.
Hmm. I admit Fallouja hasn't surrendered as fast as Paris, but 1 day and already near the city center? Headline doesn't match the facts on the ground. Would Lemonde ever put a worst case spin on a story?
2. Faith of George W Bush "If Bush carries it on November 3, a civil war will burst within the republican Party." The nature of this conflict, according to the vision of Bartlett? It is primarily the same one as that which made rage in the whole world: a battle between modernistic and fundamentalist, believing pragmatists and truths, reason and religion.
Yeah, it's the battle of the evolved Homo-Europus vs. Troglody-Bushies
Care to read what the French Lemonde readers have to say in the Forums?
http://forums.lemonde.fr/perl/postlist.pl?Cat=&Board=alqaida
http://forums.lemonde.fr/perl/postlist.pl?Cat=&Board=usa
To Mr. Barnier, if you want to stop the bashing, I say you go first. I have 200 years French USA bashing to make up.
Posted by: ed ||
11/09/2004 7:43 Comments ||
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#12
The other thing to consider is that this cry for brotherhood indicates the decline in sales of french products such as wine and tourism from America must be starting to have an impact over there. We should all continue to avoid use of frog products whenever possible.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/09/2004 7:47 Comments ||
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#13
And German and Belgian and Spanish and Russian (*snicker*) and Chinese.
When Shroeder's gone, I'll look at that BMW K 1200 S shaft drive touring bike...
Until then, no bike, nor bon-bons, nor wines, nor caviar, nor cheap inferior prison-labor crap.
#14
I hope their bikes are better built than their cars
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/09/2004 8:04 Comments ||
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#15
Back in the 80s, there was a lot of opposition to the construction of the tunnel under the English Channel. Chunnel-bashing was, in fact, something of a growth industry, supported by a veritable zoo of activists, ranging from fanatical monarchists and nationalists to communist eco-wackies.
During an interview with an anti-Chunnel activist, an American reporter remarked that the group's material seemed to go out of its way to incorporate anti-French sentiment, such as "the tunnel will allow French rats and armed French policemen easy access to British soil."
The activist responded, "We are not anti-French. We like French food, French architecture, French wine, French literature, French tradition and culture. It's just the goddamned French people we can't stand."
#16
"...But the important thing now is to turn Iraq into a real success story. France has no other aim..."
Sorry, I just can't get past that clump of dung.
I've boycotted France for almost two years and I'm not stopping now. It looks like a life-long proposition.
The next frog/liberal that urges cooperation and then defines it as MY shifting MY values half way toward theirs had damn well not be within MY reach.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/09/2004 8:52 Comments ||
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#17
Frog bashing is a well respected , aged long past time within the British Isles , am glad to see USA has taken a liking to it . Great hobby enjoyed by all .
#18
This clown has it backward, of course. It's time for you frogs to kiss W's ass. The best part of this load of crap is: He called for formation of a high-level group of independent figures from both sides to explore ways to deepen political cooperation across the Atlantic. What a perfectly French solution! Maybe they'll issue some sternly-worded memos:)
#19
hmmmmm how about arresting and prosecuting those who trafficked with Saddam over the dead bodies of teh Iraqi citizens? Non? Then go fuck yourself....and especially that arrogant puss DeVillepin
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/09/2004 9:59 Comments ||
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#20
Okay, I'll stop French-bashing. Will a prolonged period of silent boycotting be acceptable to you? It will? Super.
#21
Dot, look for an Italian lugged Columbus steel tubed machine. Like a DeRosa and the like. A bit heavier but unless your racing WGAF. They ride like sex with a graduate coed. In fact look for a completely Italian machine and make sure it fits.
Four" of seat post showing or so and your toes barely able to touch the ground while sitting on the seat. Stem should be average for your body trunk. Once had a buddy who went to the Olympic traing camp and famed cycling coach Edddie B told all the guys to get the longest stem they could and shove the saddle all the way back. That takes strength bro.
As for our gallic friends, could we start with a conversation regardin french "oil for food" back stabbing as well as arms sales. Could we start there?
#22
Dot, look for an Italian lugged Columbus steel tubed machine. Like a DeRosa and the like. A bit heavier but unless your racing WGAF. They ride like sex with a graduate coed. In fact look for a completely Italian machine and make sure it fits.
Four" of seat post showing or so and your toes barely able to touch the ground while sitting on the seat. Stem should be average for your body trunk. Once had a buddy who went to the Olympic traing camp and famed cycling coach Edddie B told all the guys to get the longest stem they could and shove the saddle all the way back. That takes strength bro.
As for our gallic friends, could we start with a conversation regardin french "oil for food" back stabbing as well as arms sales. Could we start there?
#23
Well, I might reconsider AFTER they apologize for their opposition to the liberation of Iraq, AFTER they find and punish those who trafficked billions with Saddam, AFTER they quit supporting Paelo-Arab terrorists who want to destroy Israel, AFTER they let go of blocking the reform of farming subsidies in the EU and WTO, and AFTER they put Chirac in jail for his crimes.
Barnier wrote an article for the European press, too.
It wasn't the same. More destroy America.
A poster at No Pasaran wrote that the Chicoms have frog vine clippings and their soil is better than Burgundy. The frogs aren't drinking as much whine and neither are we drinking as much of theirs, other than champagne and burgundy.
#26
French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier, build a new UN complex in France and do everything in your power to promote the transplanting of the UN to European territory and we'll talk.
#29
Ok.....maybe someone can explain this to a stooopid Bush voter from a Red state.....
First I see that Zapatero wants to form an alliance with Germany and France that will be a counterweight to the US.
Then, I see this about how the French want us to unilaterally knock off the insults. We're "friends".
Am I missing some nuances here, or is this more of "you dumb Americans, obey your betters"?
#30
Nope, Desert B., you're not missing any nuance, and yes, it is more of the same--- just with a look of gently cultured concern, and a little bit of hurt in the voice.
#34
Prime Minister Raffarin, to the editors of Le Figaro: "The Iraqi resistance are our best allies."
End of story. Time for us to realize that 1) in the middle east, France is on the other side; and 2) beyond the middle east, France is completely irrelevant to us. Time to recognize that India's more important to our security and propserity than France. Look eastward, Americans.
#35
Never told you about the time, in france, I got butter in my coffee when I asked for milk. Wasn't sure if it was a slight or the waitress was just an idiot. Wasn't sure.
This was something Phil Carter (www.intel-dump.com) linked to a few weeks ago. I don't know if this has already been posted, but it deserves to be fisked. One thing jumped out at me was the report of the ambush at Tora Bora. Too bad the ambush was elsewhere during Operation Anaconda. Also, what's the 82nd's retention rate?
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/09/2004 10:56:22 PM ||
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Definitely bogus "tell 'em what they want to hear" scammer. He oughta write a book. Doesn't matter anymore whether it's shit or shinola - he's got a 48% captive ready-to-believe market to pander to...
#2
The posters are in an echo chamber, let them continue to make up stories to entertain themselves. Just go read the milblogs out there and the disconnect is obvious. A lot of comment posting by writers claiming to be military, but sounds more like fakes. IIRC During the last fiscal year the Army met its reup goal with the active duty component. Next year might be different only because Congress has finally gotten around to rebuild the Army by adding another 24k personnel to the active ranks.
Posted by: Don ||
11/09/2004 0:32 Comments ||
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#3
Well, like one of the commenters said:
This story doesn't pass the smell test.
I'm in the 82d. Humvees don't go 80 mph. There is no 82d unit deployed in Germany. The 82d wasn't at Tora Bora. I never heard anything about a plan to knock off Castro, and if the Seals were involved, we wouldn't know about it until we were in isolation in the 18 hrs preceding the attack. The only Army basic training in North Carolina is PsyOps, and there are no PsyOps guys in the 82nd.
There are several million people in the military, you can find one of us that holds any conceivable point of view. It sounds to me like this guy read a few news stories and imagined that he could get over on someone who didn't know any better. People like this are common in the military. Good odds are he is a desk jockey who's never deployed to a combat zone.
His story betrays a lack of knowledge about the 82d (and the Army in general), conveniently puts him in the midst of a couple of newsworthy controversies, and all his experiences support a particular political position. Bottom line: Fake
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/09/2004 1:07 Comments ||
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#4
HAHA
He says that 90% of the officers remain far out of harm's way.
Typical leftist spiel about officers vs "grunts"
These people don't get it. They still have the image of bloodthirsty officers sending young innocent grunts (who are all uneducated minorities) to their death.
#6
Got into the second paragraph and called bullshit.
The information given didn't match the public facts.
As in shit you can read in a newspaper. Some one has an agenda they are/were trying to push.
#7
"According to him, 75% of all soldiers want Bush defeated in the election and don't care who defeats him; anger and resentment are high."
My son was home on leave from Iraq recently; and from what he's told me about his fellow soldiers' attitudes, this is absolute, pure bullshit.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
11/09/2004 6:01 Comments ||
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#8
Yeah, it's bullshit. Everything from anthrax - which was put on hold a long time ago to the officer vs. grunt story. Just a joke. You can see the officer to enlisted casualty ratio in the Corps alone to see how that's wrong.
Are there problems in Iraq and Afghanistan - sure there are. There have been problems in every single war we've ever fought - and much worse ones then what's transpiring now. Did we cut and run because Iwo and Normandy were messy? Hell no - adapt and overcome. These morons take a zero defects mentality and apply it to the fluid, dynamic and uncertain atmosphere of combat. Some of those posters are just plain stupid beyond words, anybody involved in combat can tell you that any plan goes to hell as soon as the first shot is fired. Again, adapt and overcome. This Clemmons guy just got duped big time - but the duping matched his original premise anyways so that's why he posted it.
#12
Your post over there was indeed tactful, especially as compared to .com ("Ze poop, she is very deep." Cute!) Nobody posted after you, so perhaps your words did have an impact. But Jarhead, you put a name down -- is that ok? This is the first time I've thought to question your judgement, so maybe I'm out of line, but I don't want you to get in trouble -- you are one of the many good guys I've met here.
#13
TW - appreciate your concern and thanks for the compliment. I think your one of the good gals here as well :)
Actually I'm thinking about just going with my name from now on here as well like Robert Crawford, Frank G or Mark Espinola do. If I'm going to make statements as an individual I may as well have folks know that it does not reflect my Branch of Service. Our proud moniker I've been using might make people misinterpret my personal opinions with the USMC as a whole which I clearly do not want to do or even insinuate. Since I do not want to bring any discredit upon the Corps with my personal opinions I may just start using my name. Again - appreciate the concern.
"One sunny day in 2005, an old man approached the White House from across Pennsylvania Avenue where he'd been sitting on a park bench. He spoke to the Marine standing guard and said, "I would like to go in and meet with President Kerry."
The Marine replied, "Sir, Mr. Kerry is not the president, and does not reside here." The old man said, "Okay", and walked away.
The following day, the same old man approached the White House and said to the same Marine, "I would like to go in and meet with President Kerry." The Marine again told the man, "Sir, as I said yesterday, Mr. Kerry is not the president, and doesn't reside here."
The man thanked him and walked away.
The third day, the same man approached the White House and spoke to the very same Marine, saying, "I would like to go in and meet with President Kerry."
The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looked at the man and said, "Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr. Kerry, I've told you that Mr. Kerry is not the president and doesn't reside here. Don't you understand?"
The old man answered, "Oh, I understand, I just love hearing it."
The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you tomorrow, Sir."
Posted by: raptor ||
11/09/2004 11:11:24 AM ||
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(convulsive laughter)
Posted by: Matt ||
11/09/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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From Compass Direct
Azlina Jailani, who adopted the name Lina Joy when she became a Christian in 1998, has appealed a second time for the right to change her religious status. Lina Joy first applied for official permission to change her religion in 2001. However, the judge ruled, "As a Malay, the plaintiff exists under the tenets of Islam until her death." Lina Joy recently appealed the decision on the grounds that it contravened Malaysia's constitutional guarantee of religious freedom. The Court of Appeal heard the case on October 14, and a public announcement on the ruling is expected shortly.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
11/09/2004 11:34:00 PM ||
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From Compass Direct
Heated disputes over a Catholic school in Tangerang, Indonesia, have yet to be fully resolved despite a meeting between government ministers and local residents on October 27. A district official had allowed Catholic residents to hold services at the school on weekends after an application was rejected for a church building permit. However on October 3, a crowd of Muslim residents attacked the school during Sunday Mass and erected a brick wall in front of the school gate. Students were kept home from school for three weeks while parents and religious leaders met with local and national authorities. Finally on October 27, a compromise was reached. The students could resume classes, using the back gate to enter the school -- but the church was ordered to stop holding services on the school grounds. The Indonesian Catholic Community Forum said it would pursue the matter further, since freedom of worship was a basic constitutional right.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
11/09/2004 11:30:03 PM ||
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A top Iranian regime official has warned Britain, France and Germany that the Islamic Republic could harden its stance if the EU failed to show flexibility in the stalled nuclear negotiations.
Translation - Bend over
"If the Europeans are submissive rational, we can make some false assurances... but if they put their foot down, then our attitude will change," former president and influential spokesman Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani was quoted as saying by the Hamshahri newspaper. The powerful ex-leader has criticized the "preliminary agreement" reached Sunday between Iran and the European Union over Tehran's nuclear program as being unfair to the Islamic Republic. The deal, which diplomats from Britain, France and Germany hammered out during two days of negotiations, calls for the suspension of Iran's uranium enrichment program for an unspecified period in exchange for peaceful atomic technology and economic incentives. But many in Iran regard the deal as detrimental to Iran. "This technology has been achieved by our people by our own means, and others cannot put an end to it," said Rafsanjani, who now heads Iran's top political arbitration body the Expediency Council.
"We bought it fair and square!"
The deal centers on a verifiable suspension of uranium enrichment and threatens with a referral to the UN Security Council and possible punitive action if the situation does not improve by Nov. 25 when the International Atomic Energy Agency convenes to discuss Iran. The European Union, which has been following a course of dhimmitude diplomatic engagement with regard to Iran in the hopes that a full-fledge conflict between the Islamic Republic and the US can be avoided, has said Iran must indefinitely and fully suspend uranium enrichment. Iran, however, insists its right to enrichment, which can be used either as fuel for a civilian power reactor or as the core of nuclear weapons, cannot be called into question. Tehran officials claim the nuclear program is used purely for civilian means to generate electricity. "Ultimately, it's what Iran does that matters, not just what they might agree to," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher told reporters in Washington after the preliminary agreement between Iran and the EU was announced. "Ultimately, we shall see not only if Iran and the Europeans are able to reach agreement on how Iran can comply with the (IAEA) board's requirements, but whether the IAEA was able to verify that," Boucher said.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/09/2004 12:43:12 PM ||
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#1
Where's that surprise meter when you need one? Oh, there it is covered with all that dust and cobwebs!
Iran will play the Euro's like Saddam did the UN. I hope I see the look on their faces when they finally realize how useless their appeasement,...er diplomatic policies really are.
#2
Just wait til the Iranians have the nukes with European countries in range. Then watch the Euros grovel to the US to protect their "dear old allies".
Palestinian leaders have decided to implement a plan to restore law and order in the West Bank and Gaza.
"Yeah! Knock it off, youse guyz!"
It was the first major decision announced by the Palestinian leadership since Palestinian President Yasir Arafat was flown to hospital in Paris on 29 October. Officials on Sunday said the plan was drafted in March and is more focused on ending local lawlessness than reining in resistance fighters waging a four-year-old uprising.
There's a difference?
Although the plan was approved months ago by various armed factions, no action has yet been taken. Cabinet minister Saib Uraiqat told reporters it would now take effect immediately. It calls for more security forces to be deployed and better coordination among them. It demands that fighters stop carrying arms unless confronting Israeli forces and says the police, rather than fighters, should deal with disturbances. Arafat and other officials often promised action on the security front, but little ever happened. Arafat complained that the Palestinian efforts to maintain order were sabotaged by Israel's destruction of their security forces during the uprising.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/09/2004 4:28:00 PM ||
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#1
The title is hilarious. Could that be possible without a major shootout and assorted murders. Unless all the murdering is already done.
#8
With some assurances, some fine print, lots of verified cash, as well as a batallion of bodyguards, I would gladly offer my services as an Entropy Reduction Specialist for the Paleos.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/09/2004 21:46 Comments ||
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#9
BH, you beat me to it.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/09/2004 22:17 Comments ||
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#4
"Global terror is in California. There's global terror everywhere and it's absurd to think you can get it by going to one country and dropping tons of bombs on innocent people."
Gee thanks, Eeyore. "It'll never work. We're all doomed."
#12
like a virgin !! hopefully not one of the chosen ones .. I'd actually feel sorry for the suicide bomber that ended up with this old has-been slut :) at least he has only a 1/72 chance of shagging something with bigger flaps than a C130 Hercules plane.
#16
I think messing around will her will result in a discharge alright, and about six weeks on antibiotics.
Amazing she cancels concerts because of terrorists and is so disconnected she doesn't recognize these guys are cut from the same cloth as those darlings from the Al Aqsa Brigade.
HEY MADONNA, are you going to see at Arafish's funeral???
He would be neither a Palestinian David Ben-Gurion leading his people toward practical politics and statehood nor an Anwar Sadat accepting the logic of peace and compromise. It was a pity for the Palestinians that Yasser Arafat was what he was: a juggler, a trimmer, a man who never had it in him to tell his people great historical truths about their condition in the world of nations and their practical possibilities. The void, and the failure, Arafat leaves in his wake were of his own making. He indulged his people's worst fantasies and squandered great opportunities that opened up for them.
American diplomacy in the Clinton years, too, fell under Arafat's spell, and the White House bet that he would stand up to the boys of terror and the fearsome masked men. But in the summer of 2000, at Camp David, Arafat wrecked the political career of his Israeli negotiating partner, Prime Minister Ehud Barak, and frustrated Bill Clinton, who had made the pursuit of Israeli-Palestinian peace the cornerstone of his diplomacy. Clinton had come to that passionate pursuit armed with his celebrated charm and a sense of American optimism. In Arafat's evasion, Clinton met an obstacle he could not overcome. In his recently published memoirs, Bill Clinton tells of Yasser Arafat's thanking him for his efforts and assuring him that history will record that the American president had been a "great man." Clinton was not in the mood for flattery; he had come to know his man by now and said to him: "Mr. Chairman, I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you have made me one."
It is idle to lament the historic opportunities wasted by this man. The fault lies not in a leader whose weaknesses were known the world over but in the illusions and the hopes invested in him by outsiders willing to be deluded. When it truly counted, Palestinian history needed the healer's art and a leader's courage. In Yasser Arafat, it was to beget a juggler who never knew when history came calling, who would never accept the burden of choice and the logic of political responsibility. Good read, though too soft on the old bastard. Good riddance.
Posted by: Spot ||
11/09/2004 10:38:43 AM ||
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a man who never had it in him to tell his people great historical truths about their condition in the world of nations and their practical possibilities
and so, the sad legacy he leaves is millions of people deluded, angry and engaged in self-defeating activity. No closer to statehood. No closer to living in a world where their children can be productive members of society instead of human explosive devices.
#3
Great Scott, Fred!! That Fat Lady is approaching critical mass!!!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/09/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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#4
Great fat lady pic Fred!
Perhaps now the Palistinian people have some hope of digging their way out of the grave Arafat, Ham-ass and Islamic Jihad had dug for them. If only Ham-Ass and IJ would destroy each other in the civil war which follows.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/09/2004 12:13 Comments ||
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#6
Fred is this a pic of someone you dated
in them good old Tanhauser and Niebelungen days ???
and no, you cant have your hubcaps back they have been welded to her costume !
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
11/09/2004 12:23 Comments ||
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#7
Gawd, I miss her!
And I miss my hubcaps, too!
Posted by: Fred ||
11/09/2004 13:33 Comments ||
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#8
Jeeze Louise! I thought that they were Tibetan Monks ceremonial hats....silly me....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/09/2004 23:10 Comments ||
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November 8, 2004: Rocket propelled grenades (RPGs) are the typical weapons of choice when someone wants to attack trucks and armored vehicles in Iraq. RPGs are cheap, simple to operate, and if used properly can inflict significant damage on Stryker and Bradley armored vehicles. Unarmed and armored Hummers are especially vulnerable, since the various armor kits for the Hummer are designed to protect occupants from small arms and machine gun fire, not anti-tank grenades.
One quick fix to protect the Hummer is a unique airbag system developed by a small California company that deploys a "curtain" down outside the side of the vehicle being attacked. Four bags are needed to protect all quadrants and are held in place with simple Velcro straps. A small radar detects the incoming RPG or RPGs and inflates the airbag with a carbon dioxide gas cartridge. The RPG is literally "caught" by the airbag like a pillow and slowed enough so the nose-mounted fuse doesn't detonate the warhead. Instead, the RPG ends up collapsing upon itself, shredding the secondary self-destruct fuse and looking like a stomped-on beer can. Currently, the airbag and cartridge have to be replaced after one use, but the designers are working on a reusable airbag that can simply be rolled up and put back into place.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve ||
11/09/2004 9:44:12 AM ||
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#1
Technology always leaps ahead in times of war. If they keep up this trend, in time waging war as an American will be no more dangerous than playing video games. At least for the regulars -- Special Forces will always find ways to get dirt under their fingernails. ;-)
#2
Haven't there been stories of jihadis wrapping their RPGs in shiny tape to defeat the magnetic shielding around US armored vehicles?
The airbag system is classic, too. Will the soldiers be allowed to put some custom designs on the airbags -- maybe some great big eyes, or a tooth-filled mouth?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/09/2004 10:45 Comments ||
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#3, something about wrapping the rpg warhead would defeat the magnetic shield or some shit like that.
That's why their warheads were never hitting. It's not that the jihadi's were bad shots, it was because of the zionist deflector screens.
#4
The radar system might be the weak link here. I can see a well thrown rock or a low altitude pigeon deploying the airbags, and what have you got then? An all-terrain bouncy castle.
#5
The radar would detect the speed of incoming rounds and only deploy when the signature and speed band is within RPG velocity (ie. not rocks or bullets)
Posted by: ed ||
11/09/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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#6
Whats next? We have directed energy weapons, methods to explode enemy artillery shells in mid air, and now electronic shields. Maybe it will be individual powered armor. I have heard a few mutterings about that so don't be suprised.
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
11/09/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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#7
trailing wife: I wish I had your confidence. I have too much faith in human ingenuity to believe that war can ever be safe.
Posted by: James ||
11/09/2004 14:44 Comments ||
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#8
The second uniform system, the Vision 2020 Future Warrior concept, will follow the 2010 Future Force Warrior with more advanced nanotechnology. "If we were in Detroit, the 2020 Future Warrior system would be the concept car. It leverages a lot of the nano-work being done by the Massachusetts Institute for Technology," DeGay said, noting the Army just awarded MIT a five- year, $50 million program to establish the Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies.
"What we hope to gain from this program is body armor that wears like a traditional textile impregnated with nanomachines connected to an onboard computer, DeGay explained. "So when you shoot a round into the uniform system, it's normally pliable until it senses the strike of a round -- it becomes rigid, defeats the strike of the round and becomes soft again." A shortcoming of traditional body armor is that it can only absorb so many strikes from machine-gun rounds. "When you have a uniform with this new nanotechnology, it can absorb unlimited numbers of machine-gun rounds," DeGay pointed out.
Another potential development is inserting "nanomuscle fibers" that can actually simulate muscles, giving soldiers more strength. Fabric is impregnated with nanomachines that create the same weight, lift and feel as a muscle. "So I coat the outside of the armor with a nanomuscle fiber that gives me 25 to 35 percent better lifting capability," DeGay explained. The uniform from the waist down will have a robotic-powered system that is connected directly to the soldier. This system could use pistons to actually replicate the lower body, giving the soldier "upwards of about 300 percent greater lifting and load-carriage capability," DeGay said. "We are looking at potentially mounting a weapon directly to the uniform system and now the soldier becomes a walking gun platform."
Join the Mobile Infantry!
Posted by: Steve ||
11/09/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#9
There could be a lucrative civilian application to this technology if they can find a way to install them on the ceilings of all Middle Eastern Wedding Halls.
Pakistani troops have launched an operation against suspected al-Qaeda fighters in the tribal region bordering Afghanistan, officials say. Helicopter gunships and artillery have been used to bomb locations near Wana in South Waziristan to flush out suspected militants. The army says six militants and two soldiers have been killed. The offensive began as US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage held talks in Islamabad. A spokesman for the militants in Waziristan confirmed the death of two of their men in the fighting. The army opened an artillery barrage at first light on Tuesday targeting a mountainous area east of the town of Wana. Helicopter gunships supported the bombardment. The BBC's Haroon Rashid in Peshawar says that all roads leading to the area have been sealed.
Yeah, well, the Pak version of "sealed" is kind of like the Saudi version of "surrounded".
A local resident said government forces appeared to be concentrating their attack in an area that is a stronghold of Abdullah Mehsud, a Pakistani militant whose men kidnapped two Chinese engineers last month.
In the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, Richard Armitage met President Pervez Musharraf and Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri for talks on a wide range of issues, including the war against terrorism. Mr Armitage is the first senior US official to visit Pakistan since President Bush was re-elected and he promised continuity of US policies in the region. "We certainly want to continue our excellent cooperation with the military," Mr Armitage told Pakistani television, adding that economic ties needed to be strengthened. He also thanked Pakistan for helping with Afghanistan's presidential election on 9 October. Foreign Secretary Riaz Khokhar, who also met Mr Armitage, conveyed, Pakistan's desire to promote "a solid, broad-based and long-term relationship with the US encompassing cooperation in areas of investment, trade and defence," Pakistan's foreign ministry said. Mr Armitage is being accompanied by US Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, Christina Rocca.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/09/2004 8:38:02 AM ||
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#4
SPOD,
You are absolutely right - the idiots dont know anything about weapons. The Uzi uses a design which is absolutely different than the design of the AK-47. I've used both and know them inside out.
Also the AK-47 is much superior to the UZI as it functions much better under real life conditions(dirt, sand etc.) and has greater firepower, range, acuracy and Jam-resistance.
The Ruskies did a good job on the AK-47.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
11/09/2004 11:19 Comments ||
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#5
The information may be very wrong, but the admiration is genuine. Let's enjoy that; Israel isn't often on the receiving end of positive emotions from the international press.
Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is committed to introducing direct democracy in his North African nation, his son Saif Al Islam Gaddafi said in an interview yesterday. Speaking on BBC World Service radio, the younger Gaddafi said that in the wake of regional government elections three months ago, nation-wide polls — under the gaze of US and European observers — would be "the next step" and that they would be held "soon".
"When?"
"Umm, soon. Real soon. You'll see."
"The Libyan people want to modernise their economy, they want to reform their system, they want to deepen direct democracy," he said. "We will do this through a collective action."
Muammar obviously has no idea how to go about this" "We will institute individual liberty through collective action!"
"In Libya, next time, everything should be democratic from A to Z. This is the desire of my father. This is the desire of the people." Asked whether his father — who rules Libya with no formal title -- would contest the presidency, he replied with a laugh: "I think he is going to be the leader, and not president."
Same job, different title.
The younger Gaddafi predicted an economic boom for Libya in the construction, oil and tourism sectors, saying: "Libya in the next few years will be the biggest workshop in the world." But he criticised European Union policy towards North Africa, saying Brussels was wrong to separate the nations along the south shore of the Mediterranean from the rest of Africa. He also said that if Europe wanted to stem the tide of illegal immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa via Libya, it should do more "to create jobs and fight unemployment" in the region. "It is not by sending us four wheel drive (vehicles), helicopters and night vision equipment" that the problem can be resolved, he said. "We have to bring opportunity from Europe ... and then we can prevent (migrants) from crossing the Sahara and crossing the Mediterranean towards Europe," he said.
But first, they have to bring opportunity into Europe.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/09/2004 12:24:01 AM ||
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In his four decades as Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat has run a murky financial empire that includes far-flung PLO investments in airlines, banana plantations and high-tech companies, and money hidden in bank accounts across the globe. Jaweed al-Ghussein, a former PLO finance minister, told The Associated Press it was worth $3 billion to $5 billion when he quit in 1996. No one will say how much it's worth now - some estimates say for tax purposes as little as a few million. But as 75-year-old Arafat fights for life in a hospital near Paris, Palestinians fear that what's left will disappear or be pocketed by Arafat cronies. ``It's the money of the Palestinian people,'' said Palestinian legislator Hassan Khreishe, adding that he would urge a parliamentary investigation.
"Hey! Who let this rube in?"
That could prove difficult. Arafat has long resisted proper accounting for the funds, which include Arab payments to the PLO in the 1970s and 1980s, and Western aid to his self-rule government, the Palestinian Authority, after interim peace deals with Israel in the 1990s. Arafat lived frugally, but needed large sums to maintain loyalties. He would register investments and bank accounts in the names of loyalists, both to buy their support and protect the holdings from scrutiny and seizure, said al-Ghussein. Only Arafat had the full picture, he said, and it's not clear whether he left a will or financial records. Arafat never divulged his finances. Pressed at a February meeting with leaders of his Fatah movement, he cut them short, saying ``Suha has spent it all there are no assets,'' according to one participant.
Mohammed Rashid, Arafat's financial adviser, denied his boss was rich. ``Arafat has no personal property in any part in the world,'' he told Al-Arabiya television on Sunday. ``He doesn't even have a tent, a house, an orchard or any account that we can call personal in the name of Yasser Arafat.'' However, Forbes magazine ranked him No. 6 on its 2003 list of the richest ``kings, queens and despots,'' estimating he was worth at least $300 million. Shalom Harari, a former top Israeli intelligence official, said Arafat may have stashed away up to $700 million, part of it for an emergency such as a new exile, especially with Israel threatening to expel him.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/09/2004 12:04:35 AM ||
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Fayyad sharply curtailed Arafat's spending powers, cutting the budget for the ``president's office'' from $100 million in 2002 to $43 million this year.
A million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking some serious money ...
#3
Even if it's only three cents, I'd rather he take it to hell with him than have it finance more Paleo terrorism.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/09/2004 8:40 Comments ||
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#4
Seriously, I'm concerned about the damage an influx of that amount can do to support terror in the region. Terrorists are bad. Unrealistically Misguided Terrorists are worse. Rich Unrealistically Misguided Terrorists are the worst.
#6
Are we witnessing the reBirth of a new Immelda Marcos,
Maybe we can call her Suhelda ??
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
11/09/2004 12:07 Comments ||
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#7
My "follow the money" theory is that Fatass croaked and hit room temp early last week and many accounts have been looted in the interim by his favored croonieswho didn't want the assets tied up in various probates.
In the end the Paleos will have about as much money left as my wallet does when the daughters come home from college to visit.
#8
I can see the spam now. "Dear Sir, this request for assistance comes to you from Suha Arafat, wife of the recently deceased leader of the Palestinian Authority. If you will send you bank account I will wire $20 million from a secret Swiss bank account. I am unable to retrieve the money directly......"
#9
But as 75-year-old Arafat fights for life in a hospital near Paris, Palestinians fear that what's left will disappear or be pocketed by Arafat cronies. ``It's the money of the Palestinian people,'' said Palestinian legislator Hassan Khreishe, adding that he would urge a parliamentary investigation.
Boys, that's YOUR damn problem. You suckers were dumb enough to put all your faith in a scumbag like Arafart, and this could quite possibly be your payback. Enjoy it. I can't think of a more deserving bunch.
U.N. investigators arrived in Sudan to determine if genocide took place in Darfur and investigate reports of human rights violations in the war-torn province, a U.N. spokesman said Monday. The U.N. mission in Sudan, meanwhile, is still being denied access to much of south Darfur and officials are concerned about the fate of thousands of displaced people who were kicked out of a major camp last week, spokesman Fred Eckhard said. The team from the International Commission of Inquiry will travel to Darfur, in western Sudan, on Wednesday and stay until Nov. 20 to gather evidence, according to Eckhard. He said the team arrived in the Sudanese capital Khartoum on Sunday night.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
BRITAIN'S toughest jail is to build a £1.6million mosque for prisoners including hook-handed preacher Abu Hamza. Muslim inmates at Belmarsh Prison, who include Hamza and other suspected al-Qaeda terrorists, have objected to praying in a multi-denominational chapel where they have to cover up Christian crosses. Now prison chiefs have controversially agreed to give them a separate place of worship with its own dome and minaret. Detailed plans for the 150ft x 150ft site on 
He would be neither a Palestinian David Ben-Gurion leading his people toward practical politics and statehood nor an Anwar Sadat accepting the logic of peace and compromise. It was a pity for the Palestinians that Yasser Arafat was what he was: a juggler, a trimmer, a man who never had it in him to tell his people great historical truths about their condition in the world of nations and their practical possibilities. The void, and the failure, Arafat leaves in his wake were of his own making. He indulged his people's worst fantasies and squandered great opportunities that opened up for them.
In his four decades as Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat has run a murky financial empire that includes far-flung PLO investments in airlines, banana plantations and high-tech companies, and money hidden in bank accounts across the globe. Jaweed al-Ghussein, a former PLO finance minister, told The Associated Press it was worth $3 billion to $5 billion when he quit in 1996. No one will say how much it's worth now - some estimates say 
U.N. investigators arrived in Sudan to determine if genocide took place in Darfur and investigate reports of human rights violations in the war-torn province, a U.N. spokesman said Monday. The U.N. mission in Sudan, meanwhile, is still being denied access to much of south Darfur and officials are concerned about the fate of thousands of displaced people who were kicked out of a major camp last week, spokesman Fred Eckhard said. The team from the International Commission of Inquiry will travel to Darfur, in western Sudan, on Wednesday and stay until Nov. 20 to gather evidence, according to Eckhard. He said the team arrived in the Sudanese capital Khartoum on Sunday night.
