The Marine Corps is pressing to remove its forces from Iraq and to send marines instead to Afghanistan, to take over the leading role in combat there, according to senior military and Pentagon officials.
The idea by the Marine Corps commandant would effectively leave the Iraq war in the hands of the Army while giving the Marines a prominent new role in Afghanistan, under overall NATO command.
The suggestion was raised in a session last week convened by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and regional war-fighting commanders. While still under review, its supporters, including some in the Army, argue that a realignment could allow the Army and Marines each to operate more efficiently in sustaining troop levels for two wars that have put a strain on their forces.
As described by officials who had been briefed on the closed-door discussion, the idea represents the first tangible new thinking to emerge since the White House last month endorsed a plan to begin gradual troop withdrawals from Iraq, but also signals that American forces likely will be in Iraq for years to come.
At the moment, there are no major Marine units among the 26,000 or so American forces in Afghanistan. In Iraq there are about 25,000 marines among the 160,000 American troops there.
It is not clear exactly how many of the marines in Iraq would be moved over. But the plan would require a major reshuffling, and it would make marines the dominant American force in Afghanistan, in a war that has broader public support than the one in Iraq.
Mr. Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, the new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have not spoken publicly about the Marine concept, and aides to both officials said no formal proposal had been presented by the Marines. But the idea has been the focus of intense discussions between senior Marine Corps officers and other officials within the Defense Department.
It is not clear whether the Army would support the idea. But some officials sympathetic to the Army said that such a realignment would help ease some pressure on the Army, by allowing it to shift forces from Afghanistan into Iraq, and by simplifying planning for future troop rotations.
The Marine proposal could also face resistance from the Air Force, whose current role in providing combat aircraft for Afghanistan could be squeezed if the overall mission was handed to the Marines. Unlike the Army, the Marines would bring a significant force of combat aircraft to that conflict.
Whether the Marine proposal takes hold, the most delicate counterterrorism missions in Afghanistan, including the hunt for forces of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, would remain the job of a military task force that draws on Army, Navy and Air Force Special Operations units.
#1
When you look at anyFifth Column Fishwrap New York Times article about the war, look for a John F. Burns byline. If you do not see the John F. Burns byline, it's a reasonable assumption the entire article is bullshit.
Posted by: Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) ||
10/11/2007 0:19 Comments ||
Top||
#2
There was a Marine Spec Ops group in Afghanistan, but they got kicked out for fighting.
#4
Well, come on now. I'm sure the Marines chaff a bit around the Army. It's a long and grand tradition. It's nothing like the infighting [as at Saipan or Okinawa] that existed before, but while both forces can now mesh pretty well, there's still some tribal identity and pride involved. If the Marines can 'get' Afghanistan, I'll take bets that the coverage coming from theater will increase significantly. I think they have a better media game plan.
or as my old man pointed out [veteran of the 2d Marine Division, Tarawa, Saipan, Tinian], the basic fire team is composed of three Marines - one to shoot, one to loot, and one to take pictures.
#7
This does not sit well with me. It goes to the central point of what is the purpose of the Marines in the first place. Are they to be nothing other than a combination of the Army and the Air Force?
They have had a very precise concept in past, of a sea borne coastal and island fighting force, that make the initial penetration and beachhead for the much larger Army to exploit in long term inland operations.
But when they take over the Army's job of extensive inland operations, they effectively cease being an elite force. For though it hasn't really been the case in a long time, the idea that "every Marine is a fighting Marine", breaks down at that point. Because extensive inland operations need extensive combat support and combat service support, to function for an extended mission.
The army has a hell high ratio of CS and CSS personnel to its combat personnel. Perhaps as much as 20 to 1. But in the original concept Marine operation, the ratio is much lower, perhaps 5 to 1.
#8
what is the purpose of the Marines in the first place.
To make sure impressed sailors do what their officers tell them, snipe enemy officers, board enemy vessels and repel boarders.
Amphibious warfare was not part of the Marine portfolio until the 1930's when Lejune presciently focused attention on it. The Marines have always had a mission/identity problem. They should have picked up counter insurgency after Vietnam when the Army dropped it like a hot potato for Air-Land Battle in Europe. I have a feeling that is what they may be trying to do now. Too bad Petraeus works for the Army.
#9
Historically the Marines have been our counter-insurgency force. They started out on boats but that didn't last long. Look at the history of Latin America and it's the Corps, not the Army that was doing the work. The Marines small war manual was written through experience, not just theoreticals.
During Vietnam the war was deemed too big so the Army was given control and the Marine's Small War Manual was ignored and replaced with set-piece battles the Army prefered. It didn't turn out as well as the Army hoped.
#10
Go back far enough, the Gilded Age, and the Army was in the counter insurgency business with the Indians. That's why they didn't have any trouble pacifying the Philippines. But come WWI, they got to Europe and began to hobnob with the Euros and wanted to be a real Army, so the banana republics got left to the Marines, which was fine with Chesty Puller but didn't set so well with Smedley Butler. So there's been a real checkered history of the armed forces being in the conventional or counter-insurgency mode when the other kind of war came along.
The Marines are inherently expeditionary. Their org structure assumes a pretty much self-contained deployment at much smaller unit sizes than in the Army.
Army is changing to a somewhat more expeditionary model but a) it takes time to do that and b) there will be an expansion of the army that has to be folded in along with the transformation.
Given the mission in the 2 countries this proposed use of the Marines makes a lot of sense to me.
#12
First I've heard this. We're supposed to plus up from 172,000 to 202,000 active duty Marines. Not sure of the shift to afghanistan. I think maybe our bosses want to solidify things and start really working the CI stuff. Right now we obviously still send folks to both places. Kind of like ETO vs PTO WWII style but on a smaller scale. I agree it would be better for us (at least) to pick one venue and see it through. Douchebagistan is plausible for those reasons. Gen Conway's a smart man, there's a reason he's pressing this but I don't have all the inside scoop yet.
Chairman of the Arab Interim Parliament (AIP) Jassem Al-Saqer on Wednesday praised a recent decision by the US Congress recognizing Islam as one of mankind's religions.
Can't say I've ever heard of the AIP, where it lives, or what it does, though I can guess.
The US recognition of Ramadan as a holy month for fasting and spirituality, the expression of deep respect toward Islam and Muslims in the United States and the globe will contribute in boosting dialogue between the Islamic and western nations, Al-Saqer said in a statement. This decision, unprecedented in history of the US, undoubtedly came as a delightful surprise for the Muslims across the world, and affirmed the depth of Islam as a great religion, not only in the US but also in all parts of the world, said the Kuwaiti chairman of the interim parliament.
So they're gonna stop trying to kill us an' all, right?
Islam, a religion advocated by 1.5 billion people in the world, calls for moderation, tolerance, recognition of other heavenly religions, renounces fanaticism, violence and extremism.
*
Under the resolution, the US Congress recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world and expresses friendship and support for Muslims in the United States and worldwide. It also acknowledges the onset of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, and conveys its respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this occasion. The US also "rejects hatred, bigotry, and violence directed against Muslims, both in the United States and worldwide." Likewise, it "commends Muslims in the United States and across the globe who have privately and publicly rejected interpretations and movements of Islam that justify and encourage hatred, violence, and terror."
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Posted by: Seafarious ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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Link ||
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#1
So you are saying I should leave the tag on islam? Because the tag says I should not remove it.
#2
And then the AIP said "now the next step is for Congress to declare that Islam is THE religion of the US, or else start paying jizya, and all will be well"
#4
Islam, a religion advocated by 1.5 billion people in the world, calls for no moderation, intolerance, renunciation of other heavenly religions, embraces fanaticism, violence and extremism.
The elite class has every intention of continuing to fight the war on terrorism without naming the enemy, without revealing his beliefs, without unmasking his intentions, without offending his accomplices, without expelling his fifth columnists, and without ever daring to win. Their crime can and must be stopped. The founders of the United States overthrew the colonial government for offenses far lighter than those of which the traitor class is guilty.
LONDON (Rooters) - Britain announced an increase in payments for severely wounded soldiers on Thursday, the latest move to provide more support for troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan following public criticism.
The Ministry of Defense said it would now make lump-sum payments of 285,000 pounds ($570,000) to soldiers who received multiple injuries from a single attack in war zones.
Previously, only a fixed amount for the three worst injuries was paid out, leading to a high-profile case in which a soldier hit by a landmine in Afghanistan and left without legs and severe damage to his brain and spine received just $300,000.
"Our armed forces are unique in making a vital contribution to the security of our nation and we have a responsibility to continue to look after them properly when they get injured," Defense Minister Des Browne said in a statement.
"This review will benefit those with the most serious multiple injuries."
The government had come in for sustained criticism from parents of injured soldiers and some veterans' groups for its perceived callousness towards badly wounded troops.
Discrepancies were highlighted by a case in July in which an air force typist at the Ministry of Defense received a payout of $1 million after damaging her wrists from excessive typing, sparking outrage on Ministry of Defense message boards.
Since October 2001, when Britain joined the United States in invading Afghanistan, 252 British troops have died fighting there and in Iraq, while thousands have been injured. Because of advances in medicine, many of the most severely wounded end up surviving, when in previous conflicts they might well have died.
#1
In related news; in my Fall 2007 "Shift Colors" newsletter ( for retired Sailors) there is an article about "Combat relates Special Compensation." I haven't read all the details yet, but if you have combat-related disabilities over 10% there is a special fund for you. the Navy website for this is: www.hq.navy.mil.corb.CRSCB/combatrelated.htm
#2
USN, the VA has been making such payments since at least 1972, IIRC. Check http://www.va.gov/ and click on VA Compensation. It's only for disabilities directly related to combat injuries. A friend of mine gets an extra $1300 a month because he was injured and had to bail out of his crashing aircraft, causing even more damage to his back and legs. That's above the $2100/month for a 100% disabled veteran.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/11/2007 20:28 Comments ||
Top||
MADRID (Rooters) - A Spanish court will announce verdicts and sentences on Oct. 31 for the men charged over train bombings in Madrid in 2004, the deadliest attack linked to al Qaeda in Europe, it said on Wednesday. The 28 men, mainly Arabs living in Spain but also several Spaniards, are accused of planning, carrying out or assisting in the bombing of four commuter trains arriving in the city centre from working class suburbs on the morning of March 11, 2004.
All deny any involvement.
"Lies! All lies!"
Prosecutors say the attack, which killed 191 people, was carried out by a group linked to al Qaeda, with help from local petty criminals who supplied dynamite stolen from mines in northern Spain. They have asked for sentences amounting to tens of thousands of years -- although the maximum any individual can serve in Spain is 40 years.
Which will end up, with pardons, paroles, time served and general Y'urp-peon squishiness, to be ten years max.
Posted by: anonymous5089 ||
10/11/2007 08:35 ||
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[3 views]
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US support for Israel was a "major cause" of the 9-11 attacks, according to University of Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer and Harvard Professor Stephen Walt, who appeared at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology last week to promote their book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy.
It's the reason I'm so fat, too.
"A critically important issue when talking about America's terrorism problem is the matter of how US support for Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinians relates to what happened on September 11," said Mearsheimer, who played the role of attack dog, while Walt set the stage.
And it made my hair fall out.
Mearsheimer suggested that the notion of payback for injustices suffered by the Palestinians is perhaps the "most powerfully recurrent in [Osama] Bin Laden's speeches," who, he said, had been deeply concerned about the plight of the Palestinians since he was a young man.
Yasss... I've been deeply concerned about their plight since last Black September...
He said that Bin Laden's concern had been reflected in his public statements throughout the 1990's - "well before 9-11." Citing the 9-11 Commission report, Mearsheimer and Walt argued that Bin Laden wanted to make sure the attackers struck Congress because it is "the most important source of support for Israel in the United States," adding that Bin Laden twice tried to move up the dates of the attacks because of events involving Israel. Mearsheimer and Walt went on to argue that 9-11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experiences in the United States as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with US foreign policy favoring Israel. "Its hard to imagine more compelling evidence of the role US support for Israel played in the 9-11 attacks," said Mearsheimer. "In short, the present relationship between Washington and Jerusalem is helping to fuel America's terrorism problem," he went on to say.
I knew all along it was our fault.
They said that US support for Israel motivates some individuals to attack the United States and "...serves as an important recruitment tool for terrorist organizations," according to Mearsheimer. He said that US support for Israel generates huge support for terrorists in the Arab and Islamic world.
Just as, for instance, the U.S.' misguided support for Britain in 1940 generated huge support for fascists. It's obvious, isn't it?
Suggesting that Israel had outlived its usefulness to the United States, Walt added that "Israel may well have been a strategic asset during the Cold War," but that "...the Cold War is now over."
"Time to dump them. Who the hell needs a bunch of Jews? After all, 'right' and 'wrong' are just theoretical constructs, aren't they? And the Paleostinian concepts of 'right' and 'wrong' are much closer to the concepts us professors use when we need such theoretical constructs."
He said that America's unconditional support for Israel in the Middle East is "one" of the reasons "we have a terrorism problem, and it makes it harder to address a variety of problems in the Middle East."
"There are others, but we don't have to address them until we've dumped the Israelis."
At the same time, Walt admitted the US's problems in the Middle East would not disappear if it had a different relationship with Israel, and that the US "does benefit from various forms of strategic cooperation."
"But we should dump them anyway. They ucky. Got big noses, and they take German leftist girls to their rooms and bang them. They use all the nooky up, so there's none left for lefty professors. We think it's a human rights violation."
Walt also noted that Israel's human rights record was not "significantly better than that of the Palestinians," adding that any reasonably fair-minded look at the history of the conflict shows that "neither side owns the moral high ground."
"As we all know, it's all shades of gray. Some are darker than others, but it's all gray. Only us professors have the true black or white positions. Israeli tactics of zapping bad boyz from helicopters and occasionally blowing away an innocent bystander or two is the exact equivalent of raiding a house and killing four year olds in their little kiddy beds. No difference at all."
Mearsheimer and Walt argued that Israel and the pro-Israel lobby in the United States were two of the main driving forces behind the decision to invade Iraq. "It is hard to imagine that war happening in their absence," said Mearsheimer, who added that Israel was the only country besides Kuwait where both "the government and the majority of the population favored the war."
Lemme see, here. In 1992 Kuwait was liberated from Iraqi occupation, so they obviously had a tainted interest in seeing Sammy go bye-bye. Sammy launched SCUD after SCUD at Israel, even though it wasn't a belligerent, but they deserved it because of the brutal way they treat the Paleostinians, right? So their interest would also stink. The lefty professors made the case during the original Gulf war that there was no practical difference between Kuwait's regime and Iraq's, and that establishes that there's no practical difference between Israel and Kuwait, except that Israel's worse, of course. And if that's so, that means there's no practical difference between Israel and Iraq under Sammy, except that he was being picked on by the Jews. I'm getting this Lefthink down pretty good, I think. Or maybe I Lefthink.
He said that the Israeli government pushed the Bush administration hard to make sure that it did not lose its nerve in the months before the invasion. Mearsheimer said there was "no question" that the "neo-conservatives were the main driving force behind the war, but they where supported by the main constituents in the [Israel] lobby, such as AIPAC."
"They're all the same, liars and thieves, the lot of 'em!"
Citing a 2004 editorial, Mearsheimer said that as President Bush attempted to sell the war in Iraq "America's most important Jewish organizations rallied as one to his defense. In statement after statement, [Jewish] community leaders stressed the need to rid the world of Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction. Concern for Israel's safety rightfully factored into the deliberations of the main Jewish groups."
This article starring:
John Mearsheimer
KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMED
al-Qaeda
Stephen Walt
Posted by: danking70 ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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Link ||
[8 views]
Top|| File under: Global Jihad
#4
Mearsheimer is the same guy who wrote "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" - the substance of which I can sum up in a few words: American foreign policy is run by the Jooooos to benefit Israel.
"...US support for Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinians..."
Are these the same Palestinians who were quoted as saying they were better off under Israel than under the gentle ministrations of Fatah and Hamas?
As I see it, if the Palestinians lived just south of the U.S. border and tried to commit against America the depredations that they routinely attempt against Israel, there would soon be no Palestinians left.
#5
Bin Laden did not mention Palestine very much or at all before 9/11. Palestine became a theme after 9/11. The whole statement is silly
Posted by: Robi Sen ||
10/11/2007 2:13 Comments ||
Top||
#6
I thought it was global warming.
Posted by: Al Gore ||
10/11/2007 3:00 Comments ||
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#7
Robi, IIRC, Binny's delaration of war (1998) mentioned the Paleos almost as an afterthought. He was WAY more cheesed off at having infidel boots on holy Soddy soil.
Fred used to have it posted somewhere at the Burg but I couldn't find it.
#8
Accoding to dear profeessor's own standards where US support for "brutal" tratement to the Palestinans by Israeel then Blacks are entitled to inflict not a mere 9/11 on the Arabs but to exterrminate them to the last man for their support to the genocidical and Sudanese governemnt.
#15
"Why does the left remind me of the Nazi party circa 1930?"
Their opposition to gay people, their constant talk about alien spies/saboteurs of a different religion among us, their support for torture, their hostility to immigrants of another color.
#19
Why does the left sound like the Nazis? Because they are. "Transnational socialism" just added "trans" to "national socialism".
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
10/11/2007 9:02 Comments ||
Top||
#20
A collabo said:
their constant talk about alien spies/saboteurs of a different religion among us
And the answer is:
Seems you forget that Nazis didn't gas Jews for theior religion but for the simple fact of being born in the wrong race. Catholic nuns and priests of Jewish ascandency who had converted even before the foundation of Nazi party were sent to Auschwitz just as readily as the most orthodox rabbis. And new borns too. Also can you tell me how many acts of terrrorism were peretrated b y the Jews? To any text wbere they afirmed the will to conquer and wipe out the gentiles? To any occasion where they supported terrorists and danced in the streets fora distaster affecting gentiles?
And yers I revindiacte the right to be prejudiced to someone for his religion just lijke I revindicate the right for prejudice against someone professing Nazism. This is not something you are born with and it does reflect on the reson you are.
Also I revindiacte the right to wish the liberation of people from ideologies who have brought them nothing but miserfy. Unlike racists like you (and other leftist people I know) I don't find that islùm and female genital mutilation are perfectly right for brown people (yes I have found "feminists" who defend ot).
A thing has not changed,; Communists helped their Naais allies in conqyuering France. Today the chic left hels islamists.
#21
Sorta missed that line from OBL about the 'infidel' being in Saudi Arabia being his motivation, didn't they in their little anti-Semiticly sealed universe, didn't they.
#23
"Also can you tell me how many acts of terrrorism were peretrated by the Jews? To any text wbere they affirmed the will to conquer and wipe out the gentiles?"
I thought we were comparing *beliefs*, and the Nazis certainly were made to believe lots of the above were happening. If your main difference with the Nazis is that *your* fears are more justified than theirs, that's not enough of a difference IMAO.
Nor do I think that killing Anna Frank would have been any more justified if it had been because she was religiously Jewish rather than racially such.
"And yers I revindiacte the right to be prejudiced to someone for his religion just lijke I revindicate the right for prejudice against someone professing Nazism. This is not something you are born with and it does reflect on the reson you are."
That's the old chestnut, favoured by many anti-Muslim people. "Islam is an ideology" hence it's okay to hate all Muslims.
Except that Islam isn't an ideology, *Islamofascism* is. Islam itself is a religion like most religions in most places in the world, it has more in common with culture than with ideologies. You are usually born into the one of your parents. Unlike ideologies people not being it usually don't come under the mere label "different-minded" but usually under the label "stranger/foreigner/Other" instead.
So proper comparison is Islamofascism/Islam = Nazism/Germany. Islam was merely the breeding ground for islamofascism -- same way that Christianity has been the breeding ground for the witch-burners and heresy-hunters in centuries past, and same way as the Germanic nation was the breeding ground for Nazism.
What if someone is merely proffessing German (and hadn't applied to change citizenship)? Still feel free to hate him because of his nationality, for what other Germans did in World War II?
Given how Islamofascism is still at the stage where the vast majority of its victim are not Christians or Westerners but rather other (non-Islamofascist) fellow muslims, I suggest comprehending the difference between Islamofascism and Islam is crucial to understanding the world situation.
E.g. to understanding the idiocy of overthrowing a muslim *secular* tyrant in order to deliver his country to the hands of the islamofascists) -- atleast Carter during *his* presidency merely didn't do much to oppose the rise of islamofascism, he didn't go out of his way to promote it.
#25
"Jimmy Carter opposed the fight against the Iranian islamonazi ayatollahs in 1980... Whereas George W. Bush is leading the fight against islamonazis..."
Jimmy Carter merely didn't support the Iranian secular tyrant (the Shah) when he was overthrown by the islamofascists.
George W. Bush actually sent the American army to overthrow the Iraqi secular tyrant (Saddam) himself, and delivered Iraq personally to the hands of the islamofascists.
For Carter to attain the same exalted levels of stupidity as Bush has, he ought have ordered an invasion against the Shah in order to bring the islamofascists personally in power. (and even that would be less stupid than what Bush did, given how islamofascists back then weren't the danger of the day, today they are)
#26
"Why does the left remind me of the Nazi party circa 1930?"
I would've said the communist party.
Plus their opposition to private gun ownership & the second amendment, their obfuscation of hate speech vs free speech, constant talk about universal health care w/out accountability or responsibility on the part of the citizen.
Actually the rights not hostile to immigrants of another color, it's illegal immigrants of any color we have a problem with, but nice try.
#28
People who think that it is "stupid" to have overthrown the nazi-like Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein, which was responsible for the deaths of almost 2 millions men women and children, are people who hate human life.
#29
Nothing about Nazi philosophy was original or exclusive to the movement; it's just that industrialized Germany was so efficient at planning and executing. Beyond that, national and international socialisms both appealed to the much the same kind of people.
#32
Aris says proper comparison is Islamofascism/Islam = Nazism/Germany.
Nope. Comparison would be Islamofascism/Islam = hardliner Nazis versus "moderate" Nazis.
If you look at the proceedings of the Wansee conference you will see that a couple of intervenants advocated mass sterilization of Jews as a humane way of getting rid of them. Also as incredible as it can seem there are a couple of memmbers of the Nazi party members between the people honoured at Yad Vashem.
But these were not true to the letter and spirit of Naaism. But arguing of their existence to say that problem was not Nazism but the harliners like Himmlers, Goebbels, Streicher or Eichmans is stupid ecause it was Goebbels and co who were faithful to the leteer and spirit of Mein Kpf. Same thing for the "good muslims": it is not them but Bin Laden who follow the letter and spirit of Koran and the example set by Muhammad and are true to Islam. You should read Koran along with the life of Muhammad. Really.
Posted by: a ||
10/11/2007 10:28 Comments ||
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#33
Saddam Hussein was by turns secular and religious as it suited his audience, both at home and abroad. As I recall, he built ammunition dumps, mosques, and palaces with equal abandon.
Aris dear, we've only had controlled immigration since the 1920s. Before that all immigrants were legal. Unless you're referring to the many Irish nurses who've overstayed their visas in recent years?
#34
As soon as Irish illegals break any number resembling 500K you'd hear something...there are probably about 50,000 of them here....the number could be as high as 150,000 depending on what study you believe or as low as 25,000 now as many have gone back because of the "celtic tiger" economy....I know as my dad is dual citizen irish.....contrast that w/the other 12-20 million illegals we have in our country, 70-80% of which from Mexico and you may see a difference. Not to mention the fact that the Irish speak the same language, are higher educated, generally speaking, less likely to fill up jail cells from criminal activity and want to actually integrate. In my experience the same is not true of the hispanics coming in. Bottom line is the U.S. needs a better immigration policy -- but, unfortunately one of our political party's likes the cheap non-union labor and the other salivates over a potential voting block based on giving them the largesse of our state coffers I have little hope anything will get accomplished until after the next election, if then.
#39
TW -- yes, a caffeine I.V. would be good. Patent that idea and take it to Starbucks (aka fourbucks) and you'd have something there!
Unfortunately & as you well know, us mutt's would have a very hard time picking a place to be repatriated to. Heck, me and the Mrs. BH6 would have to look at Ireland, Poland, England, or maybe even Germany. I'm kind of partial to the 'aul sod but 'tis a hard decision I tell ya -- Oktoberfest and all.
#40
(1) We need this pic from "great Dictator" where the microphone stand bends away when the dictator talks about "Juden".
(2) IMO, the main message of W&M is "look at Jewish lobby---don't even think of petrodolar lobby."
#42
"You should read Koran along with the life of Muhammad. Really."
You mean things like: "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves"
No, wait, that's not the Koran... I may be confusing my holy texts there.
#43
"People who think that it is "stupid" to have overthrown the nazi-like Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein, which was responsible for the deaths of almost 2 millions men women and children, are people who hate human life."
Well you got me, and I stand revealed. I must be hating all human life.
But wait a sec -- several of the people in this thread seem to be saying that *all* the muslims are "nazi-like", and thus *all* the muslims are okay to hate -- I assume this includes the *muslim* victims of Saddam Hussein.
So, solve me this contradiction -- at the same time the people who *most* hate muslim lives, the ones who say there are no innocent muslims, are the ones that *most* supported the removal of Saddam Hussein, supposedly to *save* those oh-so-hated muslim lives.
Here's my own conclusion -- that all portrayed care on the part of conservatives concerning Saddam's muslim victims is nothing but a charade and a mere excuse.
#45
"Aris dear, we've only had controlled immigration since the 1920s."
Not exactly -- you also had things like the "Chinese Exclusion Act" in the late 1800s.
But as for controlled immigration in the 1920s -- Yes. Ever asked yourself why?
Was it because it was around then that immigration waves from *Italy* started pouring in. It was the Italian criminals, not the Hispanic ones, that you were using as excuses back then.
It's nice to state it's only the "illegality" that you object to, when you never bother to ask why these laws were made in the first place -- and preserving the traditional AngloSaxon Northern European "ethnic" image of the United States were at the core of them.
Quoting from
wikipedia:
"The Dillingham Commission was instituted by the United States Congress in 1907 to investigate the effects of immigration on the country. The Commission's analysis of American immigration during the previous three decades led it to conclude that the major source of immigration had shifted from northern and western Europeans to southern and eastern Europeans."
#46
Actually, I do know why, Aris. Just as I know that the I.Q. test was originally designed to demonstrate that Southern Europeans and Eastern European Jews were racially inferior and therefore "scientific" test results should be used to block their entry into the U.S... and later to justify quotas.
Intelligence testing and its implications was rather a specialty of my mother's, necessary to the work she did, and so I grew up steeped in the markers between normal intelligence, mental retardation, intellectuallism and pseudo-intellectualism. It's proved quite useful over the years.
#48
"Just as I know that the I.Q. test was originally designed to demonstrate that Southern Europeans and Eastern European Jews were racially inferior and therefore "scientific" test results should be used to block their entry into the U.S... and later to justify quotas."
Thanks, trailing wife, that was info I didn't know, and I appreciate having.
Given how you know how those laws originated, why are you still claiming though that race has nothing to do with the question of immigration and objections to it? Whether you consider me pseudo-whatever or not, that seems to me a plain enough question I've not gotten a response to.
#49
"Given how you know how those laws originated, why are you still claiming though that race has nothing to do with the question of immigration and objections to it?"
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say it's because they're illegal, not because they're Mexican. But you can feel free to carry on with your preconceptions. We'll stop trying to get in your way as everyone here knows better than to try to talk sense with you.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
10/11/2007 12:28 Comments ||
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#50
Because Mexicans have emigrated to the U.S. for over a century without trouble, until the trickle that quickly Americanized (you should hear what the legal Mexican-Americans think of their illegal cousins) suddenly became a flood that believes itself entitled to be here, and has been accompanied by people-smugglers that are willing to murder both Mexicans and Americans to accomplish their goals, employed by the same Mexican and Central/South American crime groups that engage in enslaved prostitutes and illegal drugs. Sadly, those in the shadow economy have no defences against the demands of the criminals who control their entrance, and both the U.S. and -- primarily, because of propinquity -- Mexico have suffered from the increased profitablity brought by the orders-of-magnitude increase in people trafficking.
America was built on immigration, and thrives because of it. As it happens, legal immigration has increased over the years as well -- including that from Mexico and points south -- to which few object. But the illegality of illegal immigration, like the illegality of drug trafficking, feeds the growth of criminal gangs that threaten not just the U.S. but even more so Mexico... and Europe as well.
#51
Race may be an issue for some though for most the issue w/*illegal* immigration has more to do w/sovereignty, respect for the law, and the over burden on our social infrastructure. However, the whole argument is a non-starter - *legal* immigration is one thing most here are fine with, having millions flood through our borders illegally because of geographical proximity is another matter. I wouldn't care if these were Mexicans, Canadians, or Eskimos, the principle is the same. Besides this is taking the thread way OT...
#52
Tee-hee. Methinks TW's tsk'ing of Aris in #46 went over his heed.
Another thread completely hijacked by Aris. Why do you continue to justify and support folks who fly planes into buildings, behead innocents for internet snuff films, intentionally target (and hide behind) women and children, use mentally-disabled pre-teens for homicide boomers, etc., Aris?
Ah well, it's useless. Talking to a wall again.
Posted by: BA ||
10/11/2007 12:48 Comments ||
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#53
Aris thrives on the attention. The more interesting and perplexing question is why anyone here still gives him any.
#54
I can't read Aris because he doesn't make any sense. I try but then he wades in over his head and I just can't stand it. He takes a little snippet of one thing and a little snippet of something else, he takes it all around the mulberry bush, and then he draws a conclusion from it that has absolutely nothing to do with reality. It's like listening to somebody chew gum or rattle paper. It's like static on the radio. Sorry, Aris, your arguments are just too tedious and twisted. Are you sure you're not a Muslim? I could tolerate a coherent Muslim (if there are any) who at least tries to stay on topic and make sense. For instance, what does illegal immigration from Mexico have to do with US support for Israel? You're off topic, again, which is why the mods ought to ban you. But since you raised the subject, how many Mexicans sneak illegally into Greece and why would they? How many airplanes have been crashed into buildings in Greece? What was the Greek contribution to the Allied effort in WWII? WTF do you know about it, anyway?
"Nothing about Nazi philosophy was original or exclusive to the movement; it's just that industrialized Germany was so efficient at planning and executing. Beyond that, national and international socialisms both appealed to the much the same kind of people."
Fascism was itself born out of the disillusionment of more perceptive late 19th and early 20th century Marxists in light of the devastating critiques of Marxist economics by the early Austrians. Zeev Sternhell, an Israeli socialist political historian has done excellent work in this area, which is summed up in the linked
Posted by: E. Brown ||
10/11/2007 12:57 Comments ||
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#56
NS -- it's like gawking at a car wreck or just trying to eat just one lay's potato chip.....sometimes takes more discipline then I can muster :)
EU6305 - it's called the "grab, twist, pull" - "grab" some shit out of the text, "twist" the obvious to fit whatever preconcieved notion you already have and then "pull" it altogether for a self-masturbatory/congratulatory I'm so smart crescendo. Or, scrap that and just avoid a question by asking one.
#58
"Islam is an ideology" hence it's okay to hate all Muslims.
Ummm ... no. It's because "Islam is an ideology" that necessitates crushing the living shit out of it. Muslims merely represent collateral damage. Just wanted to clear that up.
#59
All along, I just thought it was because the islamics hated us for our infidel way of life. Professors thank you profoundly for my enlightenment. And by the way f#ck you very much.
You have indeed taken this thread completely off track, and BA is right, it's like talking to a wall.
But since I have nothing better to do at the moment, allow me to interject regarding your statements on race and immigration.'
My wife was born and raised in Puerto Vallarta. She emigrated, LEGALLY, to the US in 1977. She spoke no English and had no skills to speak of. She taught herself English, worked as a housekeeper, and kept on working hard and learning. She became an American citizen, and did it the hard way. She eventually headed the Housekeeping Department at a large Hilton. She's now the Housekeeping director at a large Hotel resort here in San Antonio. She was given NOTHING, and made something out of it. She believes in the American dream, and so do I.
I deeply resent your charge that the immigration debate is fueled by racism. I'm vehemently opposed to illegal immigration, but my opposition pales in comparison to my wife's. She's deat set against it. Is she a racist against her own people because she opposes those who break the law and won't play by the rules like she did?
Am I a racist against Mexicans because I oppose ILLEGAL immigration? If so, why did I marry one?
There are essentially two diametrically opposed philosophies at work here. The one believes that the rules don't apply to them, and as long as they personally benefit, the rules be damned.
The other believes that to be American is to have a deep and abiding respect for the fact that we are a nation of laws and not of men. My wife and I welcome with open arms any Mexican who wants to emigrate legally.
Throwing racism bombs is a poor substitute for critical thinking and analysis. You might wanna try using your brain for something besides a hat rack. Just a suggestion.
#63
Regarding Irish Illegals. If we're talking about the USA I think it's probably a close run between the number of illegal Irish and the number of Irish in law enforcement. If every group had such high levels of civic duty we'd all be better off.
I also can't let Aris's comment on handing Iraq to the Islamofascists slide by. From what I've read a whole hell of a lot of Islamic crazies have died in Iraq and in the process they have shown the Iraqi's who and what they are and spoiled the area for their future conquest (just as the Taliban did before them). Iraq still has problems, but they are actually more the kind of problems you'd find in any post-Imperial state with mixed ethnic groups that hate each other (see Africa).
Time for an "in-your-face" observation, it appears.
The biblical promise to Abraham has been that those who would curse his descendants would be cursed, and those who would bless his descendants would be blessed. Consider the rapid rise and persistence of American power, military and economic, since the recognition of Israel by Truman in 1948, and continued support until this day, compared to the decline of Europe and the persistent vegetative state of the entire Arabic world whose hatred for Jews (now proxied by hatred for "zionism", which is merely Jews in their country defending themselves, rather than trusting those who consider Jews to be commodities only good for political barter).
I would say QED, but the proof is only good to those who hold to a judaeo-christian belief of how the world works. Thus, I shall try a different tack.
The decision to be made is whether to support the Israeli Jews in the creation of an explicit Jewish State, or to support the palestinians in creating a temporarily secular state that will inevitably morph into a Muslim State. The odds of it turning out to be more like Turkey than, say, Pakistan, are not good. In fact, they're abysmal: the demonstrated incompetence of Fatah/Hamas as functional governments "serving the people" is a case in point. An analysis of casualty populations refutes the "they are morally equvalent" argument: The casualties of Palestinian attacks are mostly women and children, while the casualties of the IDF are young males of fighting age. One would not call the IDF immoral for the occasional death of a civilian any more than one should call Palestinian terrorists moral for the occasional death of an Israeli soldier: The patent excuse that the Israeli draft makes the children into "potential soldiers" makes a mockery of the geneva conventions, whose intent is to protect people who are CURRENTLY civilians, and which makes explicit distinctions between legal insurgents and the supportive population within which they operate. Sorry, Aris: you have no authority to issue indulgences for GC violations, since no indulgences are allowed by the conventions.
The only GOOD reason for supporting the Palestinians is that it garners Arab support, which means that the oil is flowing.
The GOOD reasons for supporting the Israelis is that they are a modern Western nation-state, with a functional judiciary system which had demonstratably shown an ability to override military/government considerations with regard to the Security Wall. I do not think those overridings to be particularly intelligent, but the fact that the Judiciary has more power over the Israeli government in its little finger than every Arab/Muslim Judiciary in the entire world says something. Moreover, we have a free people whose technological prowess, on a per capita basis, is far and away the highest in the world.
Thus, the motivation behind the choice of favoring the Palestinians is, based on a physical natural resource. In short, for them, it IS "all about the oil".
The motivation behind the choice of favoring the Israelis is based on qualities of harmony in the fields of the mind (technology and science) and spirit (government, religion, culture).
To paraphrase a certain sage: Those who love the things of the flesh will support those who give them things of the flesh, while those who love the things of the spirit will support those to give them things of the spirit.
Wow. That's so good, I'm posting that at my website.
#65
Aris Katsaris
Boy you don't understand ex-prez Carter..
I was stupid and voted for him the first time.
I have never voted Democrat (spit) again!
Iran was bad enough but he destroyed the economy.
When he came to power...
A luxury US car was about from $4K to $8k.
A house still in double digits.
A good middle class salary $20k
Interest rate under %10
When he exited:
That luxury US car was about $50K
Homes in triple digits.
A good middle class salary $45K-70K with the middle fast shrinking
Interest rate > %28
dollar falling
gas about 3x the price when he entered.
deep recession.
government in shambles.
North East and North Central turned into a rust bucket.
commies on the rampage in central America
War in Afghanistan for the soviets...
Jihad being beefed up...
then there was the rose garden his nibs would not leave and just pouted in..... (retard)
and billy caught pissing on the Lincoln Memorial
BCCI
KoreaGate
BCCI funding Paki a-bomb with help from Dem leaders.
on and on and on...
#66
John Mearsheimer and Harvard Stephen Walt must have gone to the same public school Aris did.
No mistake about it, Islam's call to convert, kill us all or enslave us caused. 9-11. Aris no other large cult demands this, Deal with it and try to be a grown up and stay on topic.
#67
to get back OT -- if this professor asserts this notion of 9/11 as payback for support of Israel then why didn't binny go to the occupied territories back in the 80s and fight the evil zionists vice the ruskies?? My take is that because he never really gave a f*ck about the paleostinians -- just like most of these terror-hacks in the m.e. The media keeps talking about this arab street and paleo question. To me there is no question. All the iraqis I met here or over there didn't give a sh*t about palestine. Arab leaders certainly do not -- biggest straw man on the planet.
BTW - imho OBL was more pissed about American ventures in the majik kindom then palestine. In either case, I could give a f*ck what OBL's problems are or what that moron thinks. I don't try to understand or reason w/rabid dogs - that's what God invented buckshot for.
#68
"But since you raised the subject, how many Mexicans sneak illegally into Greece and why would they?"
About a million or so, I think, representing 10% of the population of Greece. You misspelled "Albanians" though.
"What was the Greek contribution to the Allied effort in WWII?"
Heh. Longer and heavier-paid-for than the American one, that's for sure. Not sure what *that* has to do with anything, though.
"Tee-hee. Methinks TW's tsk'ing of Aris in #46 went over his heed."
You probably didn't read #48 carefully enough then, if you think that.
And as for your absurd claim that I "justify and support" terrorists, have you no shame or moral integrity at all? Do you even believe the crap you're writing?
One thing you can't accuse me of is that I'm dishonest in my expressed opinions. I wish I could say the same about you, BA. I don't believe you even buy for a second the slanderous things you spew.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
10/11/2007 21:27 Comments ||
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#71
Enough, as they say, was enough. He's banned.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/11/2007 21:30 Comments ||
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#72
I've learned on RB: don't argue with an un/underemployed greek troll - he won't respond and when you prove him wrong, he'll change the subject. Not very well, either. Wile E. Coyote was a "supergenius" too
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/11/2007 21:35 Comments ||
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#73
thanks, DD. My scroll-finger has carpal the last couple days
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/11/2007 21:36 Comments ||
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But since you raised the subject, how many Mexicans sneak illegally into Greece and why would they?" About a million or so, I think, representing 10% of the population of Greece. You misspelled "Albanians" though. "What was the Greek contribution to the Allied effort in WWII?" Heh. Longer and heavier-paid-for than the American one, that's for sure. Not sure what *that* has to do with anything, though. "Tee-hee. Methinks TW's tsk'ing of Aris in #46 went over his heed." You probably didn't read #48 carefully enough then, if you think that. And as for your absurd claim that I "justify and support" terrorists, have you no shame or moral integrity at all? Do you even believe the crap you're writing? One thing you can't accuse me of is that I'm dishonest in my expressed opinions. I wish I could say the same about you, BA. I don't believe you even buy for a second the slanderous things you spew.
??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geeze, I thought I myself might survive here until mid-November, but now I see I will have to be very, very careful.
There's practically nothing you can argue against the Rantburg rabble and not get banned.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/11/2007 22:58 Comments ||
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#83
The reality is, you know that Aris exposes your inconistencies, and that's why you don't like him.
Posted by: Hans Klass ||
10/11/2007 23:00 Comments ||
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#84
Git #80 pls, too. Looks like Aris' evil twin's here. Same ass'ol, same ass'ol.
#96
I've been over teaching a friend how to use a computer, and just getting back to Rantburg. I see Aris is spewing his usual narrow minded and usually wrong nonsense.
Aris, the reason the Shah was overthrown was because he was trying to push Iran into the 20th Century. The mullahs objected to most of what he was doing, and used lies and innuendo to destroy the Shah and what he was doing. As usual, your view of things is narrow and parochial, distorted, and full of bs.
Fred, where's the trooper? We need the Trooper for Aris' comments.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/11/2007 23:48 Comments ||
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#97
T-minus 24 months and counting ... if Fred is having a good at that point in the future. These gits sure didn't have much staying power.
Undercover FBI agents posing as white supremacists gathered alarming intelligence about the militia movement during the early 1990s, according to documents obtained by INTELWIRE. But FBI headquarters abruptly terminated the undercover operation -- code-named PATCON -- just three months after the disastrous siege at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
The timing could hardly have been worse; the networks targeted by the investigation were inflamed to violence by Waco. At least one individual targeted in the investigation -- Andreas Strassmeier -- was later linked to Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. Another target of the investigation was later linked to Eric Rudolph, perpetrator of the 1996 Olympic Park bombing.
PATCON was the centerpiece of an extensive investigation of militia and white supremacist groups in Arizona, Alabama, Tennessee and Texas. From 1991 to 1993, at least three undercover agents working under the auspices of the FBI posed as members of a fictional white supremacist group seeking closer ties with established organizations. ..
During the late 1980s, the Texas Reserve Militia was formed by some members of the Texas State Guard, a volunteer state military force intended for use when the National Guard is unavailable. The TRM broke away from the state organization when Texas officials determined they were forming an unconstitutional "private army." The group was also known as the Texas Light Infantry, the Second Order and The Order. The latter names were inspired by a 1980s neo-Nazi gang that robbed banks and counterfeited money to fund attacks on the government and target ethnicities.
The TRM conducted monthly paramilitary training courses at a camp in the Austin, Texas, area. The camp provided training in firearms, explosive and guerilla warfare for volunteers from Texas and out-of-state, including skinheads from Las Vegas and Memphis. By the end of 1991, the TRM had about 50 members and a much larger number of informal associates, the documents said.
In or around July 1990, a member of the Texas Reserve Militia threatened to murder two FBI agents with the Austin field office. In response to the threat, the FBI initiated a domestic terrorism investigation against the TRM. Undercover agents were deployed to infiltrate the group, an operation that would later expand into PATCON. .
Undercover agents were dispatched to investigate the group The undercover agents posed as "white supremacists who were willing to commit violence in order to further the white supremacy movement." Informants were also actively recruited to penetrate the TRM's ranks. During the course of the investigation, mulitple informants provided information about the organization to the FBI. .
Starting some time in 1990, a parade of informants from within the militia movement began talking to the FBI about planned activities by the TRM and other groups. Over the course of several months, the intelligence became alarming and expanded to include other militia groups around the country.
On November 21, an informant told the FBI in Phoenix about a shipment of various explosives, improvised military-style ordinance, detonators and assault rifles (illegally modified to be fully automatic). The informant told FBI agents that the TRM was joining forces with an organization called the Texas Reenactment Group and that the combined organization would train using "old East German police uniforms which are being obtained by [redacted]." The merger was expected to increase membership of the TRM by at least 200 members. Members would be armed with fully automatic M-1 carbines.
Andreas Strassmeier, ... the son of a prominent German politician and a veteran of that country's army, moved to the United States from Hamburg in the late 1980s or early 1990s, and established relationships with various racist and anti-government movements around the country. .... Shortly before the Oklahoma City bombing, an informant told the ATF Strassmeier was plotting to blow up U.S. federal buildings. The informant also said Strassmeier had traveled to Oklahoma City prior to the bombing.
Right after renting the Ryder truck used in the Oklahoma City bombing, Timothy McVeigh called the Elohim City compound and asked to speak with Strassmeier (US v Nichols). Another informant described at least one additional call. After the bombing, Strassmeier fled the country and returned to Germany. The FBI interrogated Strassmeier by phone in May 1996, but agents did not ask him about his association with the TRM. .
In addition to the Strassmeier, several key events and figures encountered in the PATCON investigation overlap with the activities of the Aryan Republican Army, a white supremacist bank robbery gang that has been linked to the Oklahoma City Bombing. Like the Order, the ARA robbed banks with the stated purposes of financing an armed revolution against the U.S. government. In a 2007 affidavit, one member of the gang said he suspected Richard Guthrie and other gang members of taking part in the Oklahoma City bombing. In July 1996, Guthrie appeared to commit suicide in prison, shortly before he was scheduled to testify about the ARA's activities. .
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/11/2007 08:54 ||
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#1
White supremacists are incomptent assholes. I think they get off on uniforms and marching around and other grandiose plans.
#2
...activities of the Aryan Republican Army, a white supremacist bank robbery gang that has been linked to the Oklahoma City Bombing. Like the Order, the ARA robbed banks with the stated purposes of financing an armed revolution against the U.S. government.
No matter the founding ideology, these groups inevitably turn into common (and uncommonly brutal) criminal gangs. A point Wretchard made long ago about alQ, which has been illustrated quite well in Iraq. The successful ones take over countries and loot on a national scale - see: too many examples to list here...
Undercover FBI agents posing as white supremacists gathered alarming intelligence about the militia movement during the early 1990s...
Reminds me of an investigative piece done in the 1970s by the Nashville Tennessean sending one of their reporters undercover to write about the Klan. The reporter was quite proud at having been selected for the story, assuming his "hard-hitting investigative journalistic skills" got him the assignment. Only later did he learn that it was because he looked and sounded the part: middle-aged redneck good ol' boy.
#5
The Oklahoma City bombing connection interests me. I've lived in Oklahoma City since 1986 and I've never bought into the idea that McVey did this by himself (with only half-hearted help from Nichols).
#8
But FBI headquarters abruptly terminated the undercover operation -- code-named PATCON -- just three months after the disastrous siege at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
Lots and lots of hind-sight. Nowhere in this is there any analysis of political or operational conditions that may have led to terminating the operation.
The government has abandoned the hope that talks can restore peace in North Waziristan and given security forces the go-ahead to launch a major offensive on militants in the restive tribal region bordering Afghanistan ahead of Eid, which is some three days away, sources told Daily Times on Wednesday.
The deployment of military personnel in North Waziristan is under way and will continue until the launch of the offensive, the security sources said, adding that the military had sealed the Pak-Afghan border to prevent militants from crossing the porous border on the order of the Peshawar corps commander. North and South Waziristan and the frontier region of Bannu have been virtually cut off from other agencies in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, they said.
An Interior Ministry official said the government had opted for the military offensive after losing hope that dialogue with the local Taliban would succeed, and in view of continuing attacks by militants on security forces and government and civilian property over the last few months.
The security sources said the militants would now get no clemency, and they would be either crushed or flushed out of North Waziristan. This will happen in the next few days before Eid, they said.
The Interior Ministry official confirmed that a Lal Masjid-like offensive would be launched in North Waziristan in the next few days, with the aim of clearing out the militants before the Eid holidays ended.
Intelligence sharing with NATO: The security sources said that the government had appointed two liaison officers to share intelligence information with NATO officials on the presence of foreign militants in North Waziristan to prevent their escape to Afghanistan. They said tribal leaders of South and North Waziristan had helped the security forces identify the hideouts of foreign militants, mostly Uzbeks and Tajiks, holed up in the mountainous region.
Some 200 militants and 50 soldiers have been killed in fierce fighting in North Waziristan since Saturday.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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Link ||
[8 views]
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#1
"Some 200 militants and 50 soldiers have been killed"
Depending on who you read those numbers can be reversed. The Paki gov't seems to be the party more active in seeking negotiations, which makes me suspect they are the ones needing hudna.
MIR ALI: Security forces and militants observed an unofficial daylong ceasefire in North Waziristan on Wednesday to allow civilians to move to safer places, treat the wounded and bury the dead, local officials said. There was an undeclared ceasefire on Wednesday, as no major clash took place around Mir Ali, officials said on condition of anonymity. A military statement said: Militants and locals have brought a jirga to military authorities in Miranshah and deliberations are on. The respite allowed the aggrieved families to bury their dead, who they said were killed in Tuesdays air strikes in Ippi, Khedherkehl and Khushali Torikhel villages. The military said only militants were targeted. Military sources added that Arab Qaeda fighters were leading the local militants in attacks on security forces.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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They are definitely reactive, not proactive, a Western defence official has said of the Pakistani military, according to a report in the New York Times on Wednesday.
The Pakistan Army still has a long way to go in training and adopting a new counter-insurgency doctrine, another Western military official told the newspaper. The militants and their Al Qaeda allies have taken advantage of the disarray to spread their attacks and influence on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. The whole system of government is in jeopardy and the people are confused, Mehmood Shah, a retired brigadier who served as secretary of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas until 2005, said of the region.
Government paralysed: The government is absolutely paralysed, he added. It will take some time for them to turn the tables. Today, by nearly all accounts, the government is caught in a double bind, adds the report.
Western officials, according to the newspaper, insist that if left alone, the militants and their Al Qaeda allies are more dangerous, because they can exploit the freedom of movement and the territory to train and plot more attacks in Pakistan, Afghanistan and even farther abroad.
The lack of focus and leadership in the government has left police, bureaucrats, tribal officials and the military reluctant to act, Shah said, even in the face of increasingly brazen assaults. Clashes are reported almost daily, he said, and the attacks are almost always initiated by the militants. They have increasingly expanded from their early aim of fighting US forces in Afghanistan to waging an insurgency inside Pakistan itself.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Didn't Binny recently order a jihad against the gov?
The Anti Terrorist Court (No II) on Wednesday rejected the bail application of Rashid Rauf,
He further contended that the charges of impersonation, deception and carrying 29 bottles of hydrogen peroxide were bailable offences as the police only assumed he was carrying the liquid to make bombs.
a British national of Pakistani origin who was arrested in August 2006 in connection with a plot to bomb trans-Atlantic flights.
Rashid Raufs counsel pleaded that his client had not been arrested in the Islamabad Airport police station precincts as registered in the FIR, and was in fact in Bahawalpur at the time. He further contended that the charges of impersonation, deception and carrying 29 bottles of hydrogen peroxide were bailable offences as the police only assumed he was carrying the liquid to make bombs. Public Prosecutor Raja Abdul Qayyum maintained that the accused had confessed to conspiring to make bombs during interrogation, and he was admittedly involved in the attempt to bomb US-bound airplanes from London.
This article starring:
Public Prosecutor Raja Abdul Qayyum
RASHID RAUF
al-Qaeda
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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The military operation was a conspiracy against Pukhtoons, as innocent people were being killed in the name of the war on terror. Pukhtoons were part of Pakistan and the government should protect their rights and stop the genocide in the Tribal Areas.
The opposition on Wednesday sought a Senate debate on the rising death toll in the ongoing military operation in North Waziristan Agency and the exodus of thousands of people from Mir Ali town. PPP Parliamentary Secretary Izhar Amrohvi submitted an adjournment motion in this regard to the Senate Secretariat under Rule 74 of the Rules and Procedure of Conduct of the Senate Rules, 1988.
Senator Ilyas Bilour, one of the signatories of the motion, told Daily Times that the military operation was a conspiracy against Pukhtoons, as innocent people were being killed in the name of the war on terror. He said Pukhtoons were part of Pakistan and the government should protect their rights and stop the genocide in the Tribal Areas.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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India and Singapore Tuesday signed an agreement on a long-term arrangement for conducting joint training and exercises between the Indian Air Force and the Republic of Singapore Air Force. The agreement was signed by India's Defence Secretary Vijay Singh and Singapores Permanent Secretary of Defence, Chiang Chie Foo as a two-day India-Singapore Defence Policy Dialogue began at Delhi today, an Indian Defence Ministry statement said.
During the dialogue, both India and Singapore gave an update on their bilateral defence relations and expressed the need to further intensify cooperation, the statement said. "The defence sub-groups of both sides reported progress made in respective fields including research and development. The regional security aspects, both from Indian and Singaporean perspectives, were also discussed," the statement added.
PajamasXpress blogger Victor Davis Hanson shares what he learned during his recent trip to Baghdad and forward operating bases in Anbar and Diyala provinces. (See also Part One and Part Two.)
#1
"As a supporter of some four years of the now unpopular effort to remove Saddam and leave a democracy in his place, I continue to have only one reservation, albeit a major one. The U.S. soldier in the field is so unusually competent and heroic that one comes to despair at the very thought of losing even one of them. As a military historian I know that an army that cant take casualties cant win, but I confess after spending 16-hour days with our soldiers in impossible conditions one wonders whether the entire country of Iraq is worth the loss of just of these unusual Americans. I understand both the lack of logic and perhaps amorality in such a sweeping statement, but feel it nonetheless out here."
I'd say that Professor Hanson sums up how I feel about the whole thing.
My only hope is that after they get Iraq fixed, these soldiers come back and run for office. Iraq and Afghanistan will prove the crucible for the future leaders of America.
Would some of the heros be so 'evident' as such if there was no 'crucible' to strip away the civilian facade?
Knowwhaddamean? Maybe wars make heros?
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/11/2007 16:19 Comments ||
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#3
What's even more stark is that none of the guys I knew who actually did big things over there consider themselves heros in any sense of the word. I agree Penguin. I plan on running for some minor office later on in life. Right now, I'm having too much fun on active duty...but in 10 yrs - who knows.
Blackwater is now the biggest of the three firms working for the department in Iraq with about 1,000 employees and handles protection in and around Baghdad, the most dangerous areas of the country. It has been paid as much as $1 billion for its work in Iraq.
Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, which work in the north and south, are far smaller and face resource constraints.
Under the terms of the department's Worldwide Personal Protective Security contract, which covers privately contracted guards for diplomats in Iraq, Blackwater, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy are the only three companies eligible to bid on specific task orders there.
If Blackwater goes, the slack would almost certainly have to be picked up by one or more other companies, which may require certifying other firms to bid, including non-U.S. ones, the officials said.
Of interest to the department is the possibility of forming Iraqi companies with Iraqi employees to protect U.S. diplomats as local guards do for embassy staff in other countries, they said. That would bring the guards fully under the jurisdiction of Iraqi law but is not a short-term option given inadequate training facilities.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/11/2007 9:05 Comments ||
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#2
Using local Iraqis? Given the number of stories posted here about local muckety-mucks being set up for murder by their own guards, I imagine the State Department would quickly come to regret that choice.
As for hiring other companies, if the others were that good, Blackwater wouldn't currently have the majority of the protection business. State (and Maliki's government) may well find themselves exploring the intricacies of being on the wrong end of a monopoly situation.
#4
It is about time for Blackwater to move on, if for no other reason than domestic US politics. I would go so far as to encourage them to set up operations on an offshore island, out of US jurisdiction.
That would mean that they could keep the bulk of their operations in the US, but move them offshore if things got annoying.
They should also set up a system of shell corporations for personnel management, logistics, and finances outside of Blackwater proper. This would help shield them from government harassment.
#5
It would also shield them from accountability, which I think is a bad idea.
The right idea is for the domestic nabobs to shut up and let tough people do the tough things required to keep decent people safe. There's nothing wrong with Blackwater. What the striped-pants crowd is doing is bowing to domestic pressure, which is their usual position.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/11/2007 11:03 Comments ||
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#6
What Steve said. And what others here have said. I actually read this article yesterday - I usually don't go much beyond the headlines of most stories anymore, as I already know what will follow - and would point out that it employed one classic method of distortion. The headline and leading concept (Blackwater being replaced) is actually just one option - a fairly implausible one, as noted here - being examined in a wide-ranging review.
In the other recent tragic shooting (because that's what it is), involving the Armenian Christian woman in Karadah, I looked at a story yesterday that contained an exceedingly pristine example of self-refuting media distortion. To closely paraphrase the article, it described the shooting as having occurred "without provocation, after the woman's car got too close to the convoy."
My friends, the ability of a reporter to write that phrase, several editors to pass on it, and readers to read it without suffering a neck injury are deeply discouraging signs that critical thinking is in dangerously short supply.
#7
I also note that the more recent shooting was done by Triple Canopy I think. Which is based in the Middle East (Dubai, I think???).
So, we have no effect on that. It's a red-on-red issue, so the MSM have dropped it like a hot potato, after the initial articles on just the shootout itself. The MSM will *not* pursue that dog-n-pony show, but will go after BW, just because it's domestic and things can be honestly affected on BW by their "reporting."
Posted by: BA ||
10/11/2007 12:56 Comments ||
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#8
TW, the difference is a lot of other companies that do this sort of work do not want to sign up to become the next setup scapegoat for Maliki. They'll have a hell of a hard time replace Blackwater fully.
#10
Excellent analysis, Verlaine, and I had no trouble believing the 'quote', because i swear I read it.
Trouble is, I can't find it, even after reading a dozen different versions of the article. Can you tell me where you found that dandy example?
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/11/2007 17:11 Comments ||
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#11
The Pentagon has been reluctant to provide security for diplomats but another alternative might be joint State-Defense department patrols. Yet another would be hiring Blackwater and other private guards as temporary U.S. government employees, the officials said.
Rubbish! If State doesn't the manpower to do static and mobile security, how are they going to do patrolling? Hire BW personnel as temp U.S. employees? Bwahahhaha.... good luck with that one. Rice is out-to-tea, as usual. I wish that someone would ask her, or any US State donk if they would mind being met at the airport by an Iraqi indiginous security agency. The future of warfare (asymmetric warfare) will include all manner of private security organizations like Blackwater and London based Aeigis. War is hell, people get dead. We must get over it or get out of it. The continued MSM spin on this BW incident makes me nauseous. Lastly, we'd better damn well hope BW doesn't get a gut full of this crap and terminate the contract on their bloody own. I can assure you, it's being discussed.
#16
IMO, this article is just PC for the USA-IGA is kicking insurgent-Islamist butt in Iraq such that USA is confident enuff to begin bringing some US milfor units home, and turn over to the IGA. *Looming Islamist defeat in Iraq + no Amer Hiroshimas [yet] + Muslim locals mostly liking USA-Allies = USA refocusing on IRAN.
RAMALLAH, West Bank (Rooters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction ruled out talks with Hamas on Thursday as Israel warned any such dialogue with the Islamists could "torpedo" a peace deal with the Jewish state.
Palestinian sources familiar with the matter said members of Hamas and Fatah had discussed holding peace talks, but Fatah leaders said they had not backed any meeting and rejected dialogue with Hamas unless it cedes control of the Gaza Strip, which it seized in fighting with Abbas's forces in June.
"What happened in Gaza was a military coup against legitimacy and against democracy," Abdallah Franji, And who embodies Democracy and Legitimacy better than al fatah, I ask you?
who is close to Abbas and a member of secular Fatah's central committee, told Rooters. "If they retreat then we can talk. Now we cannot."
Abbas dismissed the Islamist Hamas-led Palestinian government in June after the violence in Gaza, ushering an easing of U.S. and Israeli sanctions and plans for a peace conference next month.
Hamas's Ismail Haniyeh, who was prime minister until June, said late on Wednesday Hamas was ready to hold talks with Fatah and hinted it might be ready to give up control of the enclave.
In about a hundred years.
Israel, which is trying to bolster Abbas and sideline the Islamist group, said talks between the rival factions could "torpedo" efforts ahead of a U.S.-sponsored peace conference to move towards a deal on establishing Palestinian statehood. "We are concerned that if you ... allow this extreme organisation which is opposed to reconciliation back to centre stage you will in fact torpedo any chance of moving forward," Israel's Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said.
Israel and the West have shunned Hamas until it recognises the Jewish state's right to exist.
Fatah leaders rejected Haniyeh's calls for talks and said Hamas, struggling with the effects of an international boycott and an Israeli blockade of Gaza, was lying about wanting peace so as to shore up Palestinian support.
Well yeah, Hamas is lying? Blinding glimpse of the obvious.
Palestinian sources familiar with the talks but not affiliated with either party said on Thursday Fatah official Jibril al-Rajoub had met senior Hamas official Mohammed Nazzal to discuss holding talks in Egypt.
But a Fatah official said on Thursday the meeting between Rajoub and Nazzal was "non-binding" and said Rajoub, a one-time senior Fatah security official who has been pushing for talks with Hamas, did not have the backing of Fatah leadership. "With the international restrictions on Hamas, they have started to feel the crunch," the official said. Rajoub declined to comment on the record.
One source close to the talks said an exiled hard line Hamas leader would arrive in Cairo next week to prepare for talks between the factions.
Fatah refuses to talk to Hamas unless it pulls out of its security compounds in Gaza. Hamas says ceding control of the compounds must come as part of a deal, not as a precondition.
One Palestinian source said Hamas-Fatah talks would also touch on a Hamas ceasefire with Israel that could include a prisoner swap deal.
A Palestinian official said last month a prominent Hamas official tried to open discussions with Israel to ease confrontation in Gaza but was rebuffed by the Jewish state.
Israel's Discount Bank on Wednesday cut ties with banks in Gaza, in line with the Israeli government designation of Gaza as a "hostile territory," the bank said in a statement. Palestinians do not have their own currency, using the Israeli shekel for transactions. The Discount Bank decision followed a similar one by the larger Bank Hapoalim to sever links with banks in Gaza. They were the only two Israeli commercial banks dealing with financial institutions in Gaza.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
I must be missing something.
The paleos claim they're poverty-stricken, don't have jobs, yadda yadda yadda.
So what use would they have for a bank (other than to rob it)?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/11/2007 0:06 Comments ||
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#2
So what use would they have for a bank (other than to rob it)?
Barbara Skolaut, Where else are they gonna cash all them checks from EYUROP, de Arabs Nations, the UN, red Cresant, and millions of rwelitives all over the planet etc..
/wabbity wabbity wabbity wabbity BOO
that's a Halloween Hoo for You Peanut
Posted by: Red Dawg ||
10/11/2007 2:08 Comments ||
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#3
--->Ex-prez Carter, the old ole peanuit brain
Posted by: Red Dawg ||
10/11/2007 2:12 Comments ||
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Calling Gaza a "prison" and a "ghetto," European Union parliamentarians harshly condemned Israeli actions there in a special session held in Brussels on Wednesday.
During the hour-long, heated debate in advance of a Thursday vote on a resolution, parliamentarians, as well as EU officials, called on Israel to open the Gaza borders to alleviate the growing humanitarian crisis in the impoverished area where 1.1 million of the 1.4 m. population are dependant on the international donations for basic food supplies.
In one of the more impassioned speeches, Belgian MEP Veronique De Keyser called Gaza a "ghetto" where "people are dying little by little with cameras trained on them."
While the IDF is working on a proposal to close the borders between Gaza and Israel in favor of Egyptian crossings, EU parliamentarians called on Israel to find a solution to the problem. In particular, it urged Israel to live up to its commitment to ensure pedestrian passage at Rafah and full commercial movement in Karni.
The Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip in June forced the closure of the main commercial crossing into Israel at Karni and the pedestrian one into Egypt at Rafah. The third major crossing into Israel at Erez has been opened for limited pedestrian traffic.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
I don't recall they ever condemned kassams falling into Israel. Corect me if I am wrong.
Already... Pox be on the fuckin belgian waffles and yuro dhimmis!
#5
Lets say it: lot of EU parliamentarians and journalists are just filled with antisemitism...
Interesting to see that, once more, a Belgian is leading the European anti-Israeli anti-Jewish campaign: during WWII, the Belgians were some of the best collaborators of the nazis, arresting and delivering more than 44% of the Jews living in Belgium (in France, 22% of the Jews were arrested and delivered to the Nazis).
#7
Oh yeah now I remember Belgian MEP Veronique De Keyser. she's quite the...uhem...diplomat.
Remember this quote?
I wonder how they are able to limit violence in the territories given the background, she said. If the Israeli ambassador comes in the future to speak of Israels security, I feel like I want to strangle him.
Egypt has emphatically dismissed as baseless Israeli reports on a deal allowing a NATO troop deployment on the Philadelphia Route between Egypt and Gaza Strip.
Hmmm...intriguing.
The denial was made by a spokesman for the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in a news release handed out here Wednesday. The spokesman billed such Israeli reports as "totally divorced from reality" and reflects a total misunderstanding of the natural of the relationship between Egypt and the NATO.
"Certainly not! And write down just how hard I waved my hands while making the denial!"
However, he said, both sides only hammered out an agreement called "individual cooperation program" in Brussels on Tuesday, with the goal of reinforcing bilateral cooperation in such humanitarian domains as field hospitals at hot spots and UN peacekeeping operations.
"It is more of an individual ... cooperation program. Not anything like you just said it was. See my hands waving?"
The program came within the framework of resolutions made during a NATO summit in Istanbul in 2004 on possible cooperative deals between the NATO and seven neighboring Mediterranean countries notably; Egypt, Jordan, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania and Israel, he added. It is the Egyptian side which worked out the program document in a way that would boost Egypt's capabilities in humanitarian fields, the Egyptian spokesman noted.
Though Egypt's definition of humanitarian fields can be somewhat ... flexible.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday laid out his most specific demands for the borders of a future independent state, calling for a full Israeli withdrawal from all territories captured in the 1967 Mideast war.
Abbas claim comes as Israeli and Palestinian negotiating teams are trying to hammer out a joint vision for a future peace deal in time for a US-hosted conference next month.
With Israel seeking to retain parts of the West Bank and east Jerusalem, Abbas comments appeared to set the stage for tough negotiations, which are expected to include complicated arrangements such as land swaps and shared control over holy sites.
In a television interview, Abbas said the Palestinians want to establish a state on 6,205 square kilometers (2,400 square miles) of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It was the first time he has given a precise number for the amount of land he is seeking.
6,205 sq km land: We have 6,205 square kilometers in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Abbas told Palestine TV. We want it as it is. According to Palestinian negotiating documents obtained by The Associated Press, the Palestinian demands include all of the Gaza Strip, West Bank, east Jerusalem and small areas along the West Bank frontier that were considered no-mans land before the 1967 war.
UN resolutions: Abbas said his claim is backed by UN resolutions. This is our vision for the Palestinian independent state with full sovereignty on its borders, water and resources. Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisin declined to comment, saying she did not want to prejudice negotiations. But the Palestinian demands appear to exceed anything that Israel would be willing to offer.
Israel captured the territories in the 1967 Mideast war and hopes in a final peace deal with the Palestinians to hold on to parts of the West Bank where Jewish settlement blocs are located. Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
Despite Abbas tough public stance, aides to Abbas said he has agreed in recent talks with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to exchange West Bank land Israel wants to keep in a final peace deal with an equal amount of Israeli land. This would allow Israel to annex the West Bank area where the settlement blocs are located.
As part of the proposal, Abbas offered Olmert about 2 percent of the West Bank, the aides said. Olmert is seeking some 6-8 percent of the West Bank, but has said the exact amount of territory should be decided in future negotiations. The aides spoke on condition of anonymity since they were not authorised to discuss sensitive diplomatic matters with the media.
In exchange for the West Bank land, Israel is reportedly considering transferring to the Palestinians a strip of area between the Gaza Strip and West Bank to allow for a connection between them.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
"In exchange for the West Bank land, Israel is reportedly considering transferring to the Palestinians a strip of area between the Gaza Strip and West Bank to allow for a connection between them."
This is another madness from the inept Olmert. Should Israel transfer to the "palestinian" Arabs a strip connecting Gaza to Judea-Samaria, Israel territory would be cut in two !!
It is vitally important for Israel that there be no connection between Gaza and the West Bank.
#2
Our Palestinian state border requirements are very simple, really. Egypt-Jordan-Syria-Lebanon-Mediterranean Sea. They are already drawn that way in the textbooks.
Posted by: Mahmoud Abbas ||
10/11/2007 7:17 Comments ||
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#1
I've read the letter, and I found that it's pretty easy to figure out the message if you simply ask the question "Is it okay then to build a Christian church or a Jewish synagogue in Mecca?" at the end of each paragraph.
#3
Sorry -- anonymous5089 posted the same information from a different source around 8:00 this morning, entitled Italy: Muslim scholars warn Pope, be nice to muslims, or else
Moderators, if you'd be so kind as to get rid of this one as needless duplication. Thanks!
Pope Benedict XVI told leaders of the World Jewish Congress that Iran was an issue of big concern to him.
At a meeting at the Vatican, the Pope spoke of his concern about rising anti-Semitism and described how he wanted to use educational tools to counter the hatred of the Iranian leadership towards the Jewish people and Israel.
Maram Stern, secretary general of the World Jewish Congress, said after the audience: We thanked the Holy Father for everything he did for the Jewish people, and more importantly what he will do.
Speaking to journalists in Rome, he said the Pope had recognized the question of Iran as an issue of big concern for him.
Members of the congress discussed the critical problem of resurgent anti-Semitism in Europe. Britain itself has seen a marked rise in anti-Semitism, linked to increasing anti-Zionism and to events in the Middle East.
#14
Only five years of the war on terror and already they want to give up the snotty belligerent act and "talk peace". If we were laying that sad-ass line on them they would see it as weakness and pounce. So I say they had their chance to play nice and they thought it would be more fun to thumb their nose at us, give us the ol' "islam will dominate the world" shit. So screw em. I hope they will be driven before us and brought low.
#23
Threats of this sort are most usefully responded to with massive but controlled violence.
"It's not US that's gonna end up dead, you dumb bastards. We're one hell of a lot more able than you doofuses to hand out pain and death on a wholesale basis. So watch your mouths. This has been a public-service announcement."
Rome (AKI) - Distinguished Muslim scholars have written to Pope Benedict XVI warning global security is at risk if Muslims and Christians cannot make peace with each other, said the British newspaper, The Daily Mail, on Thursday.
A total of 138 scholars from every Muslim sect sent the letter to the pope and other Christian leaders. "As Muslims, we say to Christians that we are not against them and that Islam is not against them, so long as they do not wage war against Muslims on account of their religion, oppress them and drive them out of their homes," the letter said.
The newsaper said the letter also stressed the need for both faiths to reach an understanding, because they comprised "more than 55 per cent of the population, making the relationship between these two religious communities the most important factor in contributing to meaningful peace around the world."
The letter was drafted by the Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, a Jordan-based non-government organisation founded in 1980 by the late King Hussein. It also said the Koran placed a duty on Muslims to treat Christians and Jews with particular friendship. "Who are you going to believe, me, or your own lying eyes?"
The Royal Institute, and 38 top Muslim clerics also wrote a letter to the pope in 2006, expressing support after he apologised for using a quote by Mediaeval Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an 'educated Persian' about the Prophet Mohammed.
The full text of the letter was due to be released in Washington later on Thursday.
#3
Hokay, Benedict. The ball's in your court. Time to go on the offensive if you're serious about protecting your flock. These blood-crazed killers want nothing less than the Throne of Saint Peter and it's up to you to make sure it doesn't happen. The clock is ticking and now that the Catholic Church has seen fit to avoid installing another geriatric case, the schnizne is going to go down on your watch. Hop to it.
#5
Ain't gonna happen, Ebbang. Accepting the need for coexistence is a frank admission that other cultures are of equal worth and no Muslim on earth will ever abide such a notion. This is why I continue to predict a Muslim holocaust. They simply will not have it any other way.
"Islam is not against us so long as we do not wage war against muslims..."
We applaud your statesmanship. The constant combination of peace rhetoric with bloodshed is very successful. We would emulate it, but for fear of loosing our immortal souls.
We know you now. No aggreement with you would be worth having, for you will not adhere to it.
You have squandered your chance to coexist with us by the war you have waged since the birth of your religion. If you had fought it honorably, you could have negotiated an honorable peace.
Today we are trying to reform you. We treat you as we would a difficult child, which is neither respectful of you, nor an acknowledgement of your pattern of behavior.
You would die in the name of Islam. Let that be our only agreement.
Fred posted a similar story but this one is notable for the NYT's level of handwringing. Go to the link for the perfect Pallywood pic of a Leb soldier menacing some frightened kiddies.
And fergawdsake, WHY are they repatriating 500 people (with kids-n-babies) to this rubble-filled moonscape? I don't get it.
I think it's called, "welcome to the reality you and your kin have made" ...
The first 500 Palestinian refugees returned here on Wednesday to find many of their shell-shattered homes unlivable, a month after the Lebanese Army ousted a jihadist splinter group from the camp.
At the main gate, the trickle of refugees the army had permitted to go home braved a gantlet of hecklers, razor wire and soldiers who searched their bags of food and clothing. All that was left of my room was the four walls, said Maysa al-Sharaf, 23, who found piles of rubble filling each room of her home. I was hoping to find something at least my favorite pair of black trousers. But there was nothing. She was so devastated that she returned to her temporary lodgings in another camp, her cellphone full of fuzzy images of destruction she had snapped despite army warnings that photography was prohibited. This is my friends living room, she said, showing a photograph of upturned, broken furniture and walls punctured by shells. She hasnt seen it yet.
From the beginning, they didnt like having Palestinians here, said Dalal Kohder, 23, a refugee whose family home here had been reduced to rubble. She predicted that now, her family would have to live under greater scrutiny. Theyre not going to give us more freedom, she said. Theyll Humiliate us.
Lebanese officials said they wanted to create from the camps ruins a new model for the 400,000 Palestinian refugees in the country, who have largely been a force unto themselves for more than three decades. Most are people who fled the Israeli military in 1948, or their descendants. Many others came after the 1967 war.
To build this model, the government must balance the demands of the refugees against those of the Lebanese host population, which is strapped by unemployment and economic stagnation. This is going to be a model, so the Palestinians see they are better off under the authority of the Lebanese government, said Khalil Makkawi, the leader of a government committee charged with negotiating between the government and the Palestinians.
Tensions run high between Lebanese, who blame the Palestinians for turning a blind eye to violent jihadists like Fatah al Islam, and Palestinians, who say the Lebanese trap them in poverty and confine them in camps with no productive distractions for the young.
The governments effort to improve the situation has been more a model of heightened conflict than of coexistence. The Lebanese Army drove out Fatah al Islam, a small group of insurgents, on Sept. 2, after three months of fighting that killed 157 soldiers and more than 100 militants. The fight at Nahr al Bared spread only briefly to one other camp because there was little popular support for the Islamist faction. But if the Lebanese government threatens the autonomy of other armed Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, it could meet much stiffer and wider resistance.
Oooooo...that sounds a lot like a threat.
Fatah al Islam had nothing to do with us, said Ahmed Abu Eid, 37, who was squatting in the schoolyard of Beddawi refugee camp, where most of the refugees from Nahr al Bared live. We didnt go and bring them from Syria and Saudi Arabia. His house was destroyed, and he has been told to find housing for his family until the old camp is rebuilt, in two or three years. Standing by a festering barrel of garbage, he watched with relatives as those allowed to return on Wednesday took permission slips from United Nations officials and piled into minibuses for the half-hour drive to the seaside.
Ah, now I see. The Nations United Against Israel United Nations is staging this Pallywood production. Bring the refugees back to a rubble-filled nightmare and don't even get the garbage out before you bring the victims and their photographers back. Feh.
With a detached look in her eyes and no smile, one relative slowly clapped for a departing bus. Theyre going home, said the woman, Manal Ahmed Haj. Were not going anywhere. Mr. Abu Eid added, Wed rather join them in the rubble than continue living in this school.
The standoff at the camp prompted a Backlash® against the Palestinians and exacerbated their Fears® that they could lose what little autonomy they had to work and travel outside of their camps. Palestinians are not allowed to hold most skilled jobs and must have permission from the Lebanese military to leave their camps. But inside, Palestinian factions have free rein, including the right to bear arms.
On Wednesday, journalists were allowed just inside the main gate of the camp, closely accompanied by soldiers. But those allowed farther inside said that many buildings had been set on fire or stripped bare. We saw houses burned from the inside, the appliances gone, and even a stolen refrigerator blocking a stairwell, said Greg Ross, a Scottish volunteer from the nonprofit group Nabaa, who accompanied refugees.
Some refugees have seen their furniture and televisions on sale in local markets, he said. The military denies that it allowed soldiers or outsiders to loot the camp, but the accusations have heightened tensions between the military and the Palestinians.
My three sons were soldiers, and they died fighting here, a woman at the camp gate shouted at the Palestinians. Theyll never come home. Why should you be allowed to go home?
It was unclear how many of the refugees a tiny fraction of the 32,000 displaced from the camp by the fighting would be able to remain in their homes, which also had widespread damage from bullets, shells and shrapnel. Ahmed Bashir Abu Rabih was told by the United Nations agency in charge of the camps that his house was safe for habitation, but on Wednesday he found the road home blocked by rubble. He stayed with a cousin in a less damaged part of the camp.
The standoff at the camp prompted a backlash against the Palestinians and exacerbated their fears that they could lose what little autonomy they had to work and travel outside of their camps. Palestinians are not allowed to hold most skilled jobs and must have permission from the Lebanese military to leave their camps. But inside, Palestinian factions have free rein, including the right to bear arms.
What could possibly go wrong?
From the beginning, they didnt like having Palestinians here, said Dalal Kohder, 23, a refugee whose family home here had been reduced to rubble. She predicted that now, her family would have to live under greater scrutiny. Theyre not going to give us more freedom, she said. Theyll humiliate us.
#3
Actually, it's none of the above, for the simple reason that UNWRA intends to keep the Paleos wretched and seething. The more miserable the Paleos, the keener the blade held to Israel's throat.
#4
UNWRAintendsto keep the Paleos wretched and seething.
You give UNWRA far too much credit, Sea. They couldn't intend anything if it was the intendingest day of their lives and they had an electrified intending machine. It is the Arab world that intends to ensure continued deprivation for the Palestinians. Notice how they refuse to absorb the Palestinians into adjacent lands and end the bloodshed? Happy people don't jihad or kill the dreaded Jews anywhere near as much as a bunch of wretched psycho losers. One look is all it takes to know that Islam detests prosperity.
#5
ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS > [MOUD's] STRATEGY FOR DESTROYING ISRAEL despite all rhetoric, author says Moud is serious - he desires/wants to destroy Israel first, USA-West afterwards.
Eighteen-year-old Sergey Vysotsky is one of four Russian citizens who could be put to death in Lebanon if found guilty of terrorist offenses. The teenager is under arrest in the capital Beirut. The other three Russians remain at large. All four are thought to be part of the radical Palestinian movement Fatah Al-Islam.
Lebanese authorities met Russian diplomats in Beirut to confirm the charges against the four Russian citizens. All are suspected of terrorist activities. The men could face the death penalty if found guilty. However, Geidar Dzhemal, the Chairman of Russia's Islamic Committee says it's likely the four Russians will be sent home. "We have information that they will not be sent to Guantanamo or sent to any other Lebanese prison. They are Russian citizens and will be returned home, to Russia. Whether it will be followed by a court trial or what sort of court - is still a question to be agreed. It shall be decided between the legal agencies of the two countries," he said.
Teenager wanted to study in Lebanon
The teenager Sergey Vysotsky, 18, claims he came to Lebanon at the beginning of the year with the intention of going to university in Tripoli, in the north of the country. He says the college had no place for him when he arrived. He says he then became friendly with a group of youths from a nearby Palestinian refugee camp. That's the reason, he says, he was in the area of the battlefield when he was arrested in early September.
The Press-Attache of the Russian Embassy in Lebanon, Vladimir Cherepanov, told Russia Today that the Head of the Consular Department visited Vysotsky in prison. He saw the conditions he is being kept in and said they were acceptable. He also confirmed that embassy staff will be present when police question the youth. "Vysotksy has said he has no complaints about being kept in custody. He appears quite healthy. He was not tortured during the preliminary investigation and it is apparent from the way he looks. He confirms that he was detained in early September in the battle area. From October 11 interrogations will begin with the preliminary investigation, during which our consul will be present as agreed with the Lebanese side," Mr Cherepanov informed.
Sergey Vysotsky is said to be co-operating with officers, but has consistently denied the accusations against him. He says he was no way involved in the killing of Lebanese military and police personnel. On Thursday he will appear before a Lebanese judge for the first time, which will be his first official interrogation. The Russian Embassy has requested that a representative be present. They will also provide a translator.
Under Lebanese law Vysotsky must be provided with a lawyer, free of charge, once his trial begins. But before that the Russian Embassy will be providing him with one, including at the first session to take place on Thursday. The Embassy says it's satisfied with the close co-operation between the Russian and the Lebanese authorities.
Surprise at Russian involvement
There has been surprise in Lebanon that some of the militants of the radical Palestinian movement Fatah Al-Islam could come from Russia. The four Russian citizens are the first non-Arab nationals to have been charged with such serious crimes in Lebanon. "Russians among them? What are you talking about?" wondered Oksana Naser, a Dagestani woman living in Nahr al-Bared refugee camp. "I heard only about one - from Chechnya. And from Dagestan? I am hearing it, first time, from you," she told RT's correspondent. Oksana herself comes from Dagestan, a republic in the South of Russia. But unlike the four charged Russian nationals, one of whom allegedly comes from her hometown, she was an innocent bystander to the violence that wrecked her home and destroyed her private gynaecological practice in the Nahr al-Bared camp four months ago.
Together with thousands of others, she's found temporary shelter nearby. "I used to see these men from Fatah Al-Islam in our camp. Some of their wives were my patients. Many of them were pregnant. I had a chance to talk to them," Oksana recalls.
Here at the Naser family, the despair is overwhelming. "I want to go back to Russia, I want to work there if I can," Dr Ali Naser confesses. The family has lost everything. They live now on borrowed money and forgotten dreams.
Dr. Raed El-Haj, who was born in Nahr al-Bared, has also found temporary shelter nearby. He is one of fifty doctors from the camp who studied in Russia. He remembers seeing one of the men patrolling the streets. "He was just in military uniform, like soldiers were, and was carrying a Kalashnikov machine gun. But not all of them were dressed like soldiers. I knew he was Russian because I studied in Russia for twelve years. I can tell from the face if a man is Russian in the same way that he can tell I am Arab. Many of them were undercover. Their real power became known only after the war started," Dr. Raed El-Haj said.
"We'd have sent the Russians home"
The war was between the Lebanese army and Islamist militants belonging to an Al-Qaeda offshoot - Fatah al Islam. The residents of the northern Lebanese Palestinian camp became its victims.
Now, waiting to return, they keep themselves well-armed. Abdelary Arkanbader, the leader of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, said they were surprised in the beginning to find there were Russians fighting with Fatah Al-Islam. "But now we know that there are a handful of Russians involved and in my opinion, they probably come from Chechnya. They arrived here from Iraq. I wish we'd known before the fighting started that there were Russians, we would've taken them to the Russian Embassy because we have good relations with Russia and we would have let them go home," Abdelary Arkanbader noted.
Late last week, 98 suspected Fatah al-Islam militants were buried in a mass grave. None were identified. Mr Abdelary says it is possible some of the missing Russians could be among them.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
PAJAMAS MEDIA > IRAN :EXPORTING THE REVOLUTION TO AZERBAJAN; + THE COMING DIRTY BOMB ATTACK. MOSCOW more vulnerable = easier target than a US cities.
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora provided the U.N. and Arab League with evidence linking the Fatah al-Islam terrorists to the Syrian regime. Siniora sent U.N. chief Bank Ki-moon and Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa latest updates on Fatah al-Islam's links with Syria, and Hizbullah's armament.
Information Minister Ghazi Aridi said at the end of a cabinet session on Tuesday evening that the memorandums contained "information obtained by Lebanese army intelligence services and the information department of the Internal Security Forces (ISF) about armament in the country and the situation at the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp in North Lebanon. The letters are aimed at giving an accurate image of what is happening in the country."
He said the government decided to refer the assassination of anti-Syrian MP Antoine Ghanem to the Judicial Council. Ghanem was killed in a car bomb in Beirut's Sin el-Fil neighborhood on September 19. Aridi said Saniora has asked Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar - which he recently visited -- to provide the Lebanese army, police as well as the government and the U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) with the "necessary support" to rebuild the Nahr al-Bared camp and allow its residents to recover their homes. Starting Wednesday, the displaced families will be allowed to return in groups of 100 families per day, UNRWA said. Some 30,000 refugees fled Nahr el-Bared during the battle between Fatah al-Islam and the Lebanese army.
The repatriation is being organized by UNRWA in collaboration with both Lebanese and Palestinian groups. The Lebanese army has said the camp will be completely cleared of gunmen, unexploded shells, mines and booby traps before anyone returns, and the government has promised to rebuild devastated parts of Nahr el-Bared Aridi said the cabinet also agreed to a request by Telecommunications Minister Marwan Hamadeh to issue stamps in honor of sacrifices made by troops at Nahr al-Bared.
On the issue of Hizbullah's unlawful phone networking, Aridi said the government was waiting for confirmation that all lines - which run parallel to the state's phone system -- had been removed. Lebanese authorities in August revealed that the installation of the underground cables had been discovered in the south Lebanon as well as in Beirut and its suburbs.
Aridi also said that a committee had been set up to follow up on the fires that swept Lebanon earlier this month and study ways to deal with the "damaged areas." He said that Interior Minister Hassan Sabaa issued a decision on Monday "forbidding residents from using the areas hit by fire."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Prepare for some astounding moral and political gymnastics as the UN tries to sweep this under the rug reconcile this with their pro-Arab masters.
Dozens of families, many of them empty-handed, returned on Wednesday to a bombed-out Palestinian refugee camp in northern Lebanon that was the scene of 15 weeks of fierce battles between the army and Islamist militants.
Buses and mini-vans hired by the UN Relief and Works Agency and bearing Palestinian flags picked up the first families from the Beddawi refugee camp for the short drive to Nahr al-Bared camp, located outside the city of Tripoli.
Some refugees were carrying plastic bags with just a few personal belongings, while the majority waited empty-handed and expressionless at the eastern entrance to the devastated seafront camp for the army to search them before allowing them in. "I am happy to be going home but I'm very scared," Insaf Fuad, 25, said as she waited for clearance with her husband and four children aged one to four. "I am scared of what is waiting for us and I know that our house was partially destroyed."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
"I am happy to be going home but I'm very scared," Insaf Fuad, 25, said as she waited for clearance with her husband and four children aged one to four.
Only four children in four years? She had better pick up the pace, pronto.
Details of the interrogation of detained Fatah al-Islam terrorists unveiled plans to seize control of a "big section" of northern Lebanon, to "destabilize" the country by shelling government institutions and business facilities, and to attack U.N. peacekeepers. Interrogation also showed that a large number of Fatah al-Islam militants were "true Jihadis," or holy warriors, who were under the impression that they were going to fight in Iraq.
It said most of the non-Lebanese militants had illegally crossed into Lebanon from Syria overland, adding that a few had entered the country via Beirut airport. The objective behind attacking U.N. peacekeepers was an effort to hinder implementation of U.N. resolutions, particularly 1701.
It is believed that following Arab, European and U.S. pressure on Syria to stop exporting jihad fighters to Iraqi, hundreds of holy warriors were sent to Lebanon under Shaker al-Abssi's Fatah al-Islam umbrella after his mysterious release from Damascus along with a few aids. Grilling of the detainees also showed that those who came illegally from Syria had infiltrated via a border area controlled by Ahmed Jibril's Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine -General Command, which is backed and financed by Syria. An Nahar said Fatah al-Islam fighters had also received paramilitary training at PFLP-GC bases along the Lebanese border with Syria.
The circumstances of Abssi's release and the way the Syrian-backed Fatah-Intifada, or uprising, had facilitated Abssi's movements, in addition to a number of other factors, showed that a well-planned, premeditated plot could not have been made without the knowledge and blessing of Fatah-Intifada. Evidence that "direct contacts" between some Fatah al-Islam leaders and high-ranking Syrian Intelligence officers also supported accusations that Syria's security service used Fatah al-Islam for political and security purposes in Lebanon.
Cross-examination also showed that Fatah al-Islam was made up of "two main components":
1 - External, which includes Syrians and Palestinians living in Syria and were tasked with missions outside their bases like the Ein Alaq bombings.
2 - Internal, where militants were confined to the refugee camp and not allowed to leave.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/11/2007 00:00 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
MADRID (Rooters) - A Spanish court will announce verdicts and sentences on Oct. 31 for the men charged over train bombings in Madrid in 2004, the deadliest attack linked to al Qaeda in Europe, it said on Wednesday. The 28 men, mainly Arabs living in Spain but also several Spaniards, are accused of planning, carrying out or assisting in the bombing of four commuter trains arriving in the city centre from working class suburbs on the morning of March 11, 2004.
US support for Israel was a "major cause" of the 9-11 attacks, according to University of Chicago Professor 
The government has abandoned the hope that talks can restore peace in North Waziristan and given security forces the go-ahead to launch a major offensive on militants in the restive tribal region bordering Afghanistan ahead of Eid, which is some three days away, sources told Daily Times on Wednesday.
MIR ALI: Security forces and militants observed an unofficial daylong ceasefire in North Waziristan on Wednesday to allow civilians to move to safer places, treat the wounded and bury the dead, local officials said. There was an undeclared ceasefire on Wednesday, as no major clash took place around Mir Ali, officials said on condition of anonymity. A military statement said: Militants and locals have brought a jirga to military authorities in Miranshah and deliberations are on. The respite allowed the aggrieved families to bury their dead, who they said were killed in Tuesdays air strikes in Ippi, Khedherkehl and Khushali Torikhel villages. The military said only militants were targeted. Military sources added that Arab Qaeda fighters were leading the local militants in attacks on security forces.
They are definitely reactive, not proactive, a Western defence official has said of the Pakistani military, according to a report in the New York Times on Wednesday.
The Anti Terrorist Court (No II) on Wednesday rejected the bail application of 
India and Singapore Tuesday signed an agreement on a long-term arrangement for conducting joint training and exercises between the Indian Air Force and the Republic of Singapore Air Force. The agreement was signed by India's Defence Secretary Vijay Singh and Singapores Permanent Secretary of Defence, Chiang Chie Foo as a two-day India-Singapore Defence Policy Dialogue began at Delhi today, an Indian Defence Ministry statement said.
RAMALLAH, West Bank (Rooters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction ruled out talks with Hamas on Thursday as Israel warned any such dialogue with the Islamists could "torpedo" a peace deal with the Jewish state.
Egypt has emphatically dismissed as baseless Israeli reports on a deal allowing a NATO troop deployment on the Philadelphia Route between Egypt and Gaza Strip.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday laid out his most specific demands for the borders of a future independent state, calling for a full Israeli withdrawal from all territories captured in the 1967 Mideast war. 
On Wednesday, journalists were allowed just inside the main gate of the camp, closely accompanied by soldiers. But those allowed farther inside said that many buildings had been set on fire or stripped bare. We saw houses burned from the inside, the appliances gone, and even a stolen refrigerator blocking a stairwell, said Greg Ross, a Scottish volunteer from the nonprofit group Nabaa, who accompanied refugees. 
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora provided the U.N. and Arab League with evidence linking the Fatah al-Islam terrorists to the Syrian regime. Siniora sent U.N. chief Bank Ki-moon and Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa latest updates on Fatah al-Islam's links with Syria, and Hizbullah's armament.
Dozens of families, many of them empty-handed, returned on Wednesday to a bombed-out Palestinian refugee camp in northern Lebanon that was the scene of 15 weeks of fierce battles between the army and Islamist militants.
Some refugees were carrying plastic bags with just a few personal belongings, while the majority waited empty-handed and expressionless at the eastern entrance to the devastated seafront camp for the army to search them before allowing them in. "I am happy to be going home but I'm very scared," Insaf Fuad, 25, said as she waited for clearance with her husband and four children aged one to four. "I am scared of what is waiting for us and I know that our house was partially destroyed."
Details of the interrogation of detained Fatah al-Islam terrorists unveiled plans to seize control of a "big section" of northern Lebanon, to "destabilize" the country by shelling government institutions and business facilities, and to attack U.N. peacekeepers. Interrogation also showed that a large number of Fatah al-Islam militants were "true Jihadis," or holy warriors, who were under the impression that they were going to fight in Iraq.
