via BBC
Snippets harvested from the week's news, chopped, sliced and diced for your weekend convenience.
1. One euro cent coins cost more to make than their face value, due to the rocketing price of copper.
2. Forget The Scream. There are currently 491 missing Picassos, 342 missing Miros and 152 missing Rembrandts, according to the Art Loss Register. More details
3. The sale of methylated spirits is currently prohibited on Sunday under Section 26 of the Revenue Act 1889. Custom and Excise and DTI are taking steps to repeal it.
4. A "jiffy" is 10 milliseconds in computer science terms. More details
6. The procedure for impeaching a public official in the UK was last used in 1806, when an attempt was made to remove Viscount Melville, First Lord of the Admiralty. Full story
7. The "tiffin carriers" of Bombay, who deliver home-cooked lunches to office workers, are so good at delivering to the right person on time that Forbes Magazine has given them an accuracy and precision rating of 99.99% - one error per eight million deliveries. Full story
8. The 1900 and 1904 Games were low-key events, coinciding with the World's Fair in their respective cities. So low-key, in fact, that some athletes were left unaware that they had just competed in the Olympics. More details
9. Margaret Roberts (later Thatcher) helped invent the chemical process that produces Mr Whippy ice cream.
10. The pollution given off by cigarettes is 10 times greater than that in diesel car exhaust, an Italian study has found. Full story
#2
Just to be a picky metallurgist, the US penny is now copper plated zinc, not bronze. The change occurred in 1983. I do believe Mr. Shipman is right on the dot with the number of pre-1983 pennies per pound (the current ones are noticiable lighter)
#4
10. The pollution given off by cigarettes is 10 times greater than that in diesel car exhaust, an Italian study has found.
Full stop
Thats why, when I want true smoking satisfaction, I wrap my pie hole round a diesel exhaust pipe. Stop the tyranny! Stop the oppression of Diesel consumers! Legalise Diesel!
Posted by: Comment Top ||
09/03/2004 16:03 Comments ||
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via BBC Cartoon cat sparks row in China
Saturday, 28 August, 2004, 15:21 GMT 16:21 UK
A copyright infringement row over cartoon cat Garfield has set fur flying in China, according to local media.
US firm Paws Incorporated has accused three Chinese companies of publishing Garfield books without permission, the China Daily newspaper reports. The three companies have denied wrongdoing and are contesting the case in court, the newspaper said.
Garfield, a daily comic strip about a mischievous cat, is syndicated in newspapers worldwide. It is estimated that some 260 million people regularly read the comic.
Compensation demand
The case is being heard in the Beijing Second Intermediate People's Court against Beijing Kewen Book Information Technology Co. Ltd., Beijing Science and Culture Cambridge Co. Ltd. and Xiwang Publishing House, the newspaper said.
It said that Paws Incorporated's attorney accused the companies of illegally publishing and selling the Garfield books. The firm also demanded a public apology and asked for compensation of almost 800,000 yuan ($93,000) to pay the plaintiff's bill for filing the case.
An attorney for the Chinese companies said Paw Incorporated did not have the right to file a lawsuit, arguing that it was not the owner of the Garfield copyright. "As the two sides still have to put forward more evidence, Friday's trial only heard the statement and argument of the two sides but did not give a verdict," the China Daily said.
Chinese officials put the market value of counterfeit goods in China reaches at about $24bn (£13bn) annually. They say the bogus trade affects a wide range of US brands, including films, music and software. Cat scratch fever! No intellectual property is safe in The Middle Kingdom, no matter how trivial.
North Korea must take urgent action to protect its environment, the UN environment programme said yesterday, publishing its first report on the deforestation and pollution caused by more than a decade of famine and economic hardship.
Although the authors admit that much of the information is old and inaccurate incomplete, the study and its publication - both done with the cooperation of the North Korean authorities - is hailed as a breakthrough. Until now the government has either ignored the environment or launched ad hoc measures, such as the campaign for every citizen to walk 10,000 steps a day rather than use buses and trams.
Done strictly for environmental purposes, you understand.
Unep's executive director, Klaus Töpfer, said: "This country has very severe environmental challenges." But he praised the government for making a commitment yesterday to work with the international community to clear up the damage. "The most important consequence is that there is a full dedication for cooperation and that there is a full understanding that there must be done more for the environment."
At first sight, the spectacular deindustrialisation of North Korea since the collapse of the Soviet bloc appears to have been beneficial to the environment. The halving of the country's output between 1992 and 1996 has closed countless factories.
And slimmed down the population, what an environmental plus.
But the report points out that the search for fuel, power and edible grass farmland has forced many of the 24.4 million people into the hills in search of food and firewood. In the six years from 1990 the volume of timber burned in homes and factories more than doubled. At least 144,000 hectares (359,900 acres) of woodland has been lost. Although 80% of the land is still forested, most of the remaining trees are on inaccessible mountain slopes.
During the years of famine in the mid-1990s, many hills were stripped in an attempt to expand farmland. With a harvest 20% short of needs, aid workers say they have seen peasants trying to grow wheat on slopes so steep that they are unable to stand straight.
Which might explain why they're 20% short of needs.
"It's very evident that more and more marginal land is being brought into use, which has had an adverse environmental impact," Gerry Bourke of the World Food Programme said. "They are cultivating hillsides and even hilltops that should be left fallow. When the rain comes, it all just gets washed off and you get a growing problem of soil erosion."
Other problems reported include the pollution of rivers with sewage, leading to the spread of water-borne disease; and air pollution, partly caused by the heavy reliance on coal.
With the population expected to grow to 29m by 2020, the government expects a fivefold increase in the demand for coal for domestic fires and industrial boilers and kilns.
The population is going to go down, not up -- starving people don't reproduce so well.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/28/2004 1:01:08 AM ||
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Starving people certainly don't reproduce well when they are eating their own babies to survive.
The Croatian Police early Friday demolished two monuments honoring two senior members of Croatia's World War II Nazi quisling state. A plaque commemorating Mile Budak, who served as education minister in the German-backed 1941-1945 fascist Ustasha government, and a statue dedicated to a senior military officer, Jure Francetic, were ordered removed late Thursday night by an emergency Croatian government decree made in accordance with the constitution, which outlaws tokens of homage to fascism.
Both high-ranking Croatian officials were active supporters of the genocidal Ustasha regime, which ruled the country from 1941 until 1945.
"This government will not allow Croatia to be imprisoned by the past - particularly by negative notions - but will direct all its capacities toward the future," Croatian Prime Minister Ivo Sanader said. "The monuments are contrary to fundamental elements of the Croatian constitution and damage the reputation and interests of Croatia," he added.
The monument honoring the Nazi collaborator had been erected last weekend by a group of right-wing Croatian emigrants, still sympathetic to the ultra-nationalist Ustasha regime, while the statue had been standing still last year.
The Los Angeles based Simon Wiesenthal Center, which had issued a public protest against the monuments, welcomed their removal as an "important and necessary step," and urged the government to proceed with its plan to legislate a prohibition on the use of Ustasha symbols as well as to increase Holocaust education.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/28/2004 1:01:26 AM ||
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"Croatia removes memorials to Nazi collaborators"
via Rooters
Fri 27 August, 2004 18:26
An unemployed teacher has been given a four-month suspended sentence and ordered to perform community service for slapping German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder in the face at a Social Democrat party event in May. The court in the town of Mannheim described 52-year-old Jens Ammoser as a "scatterbrain" but said physical assault was an unacceptable way of expressing political discontent. An unpopular programme of welfare cuts has unleashed a wave of anger against Schroeder's government and tens of thousands of demonstrators have taken to the streets. Earlier this week, protesters in the eastern city of Wittenberg threw eggs at Schroeder, but missed. TGA, you should fisk this story for us - I'm sure you could have fun an illuminate us with those unreported details which add so much, lol!
Posted by: .com ||
08/28/2004 12:43:00 AM ||
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Let me see you assult the headf os state and get 4 months suspended. So then it must bo OK to kill him to. You would get the regular "life sentence" which is 7 years. Then get that suspended too.
Not to worry. When the Islamo-Facists take over the death penalty will be reinstated with a vengance.
#6
I don't know much to add. I'm against slapping chancellors.. except when they are Nazis... like Kiesinger, who got slapped by Beate Klarsfeld time ago. That felt good (and I'm a conservative).
The guy who slapped Schröder is indeed a slightly mentally deranged loser, who btw just studied to be teacher but didn't get a job and lived of welfare most of his life.
Schröder got egged several times lately (the eggs missed). I can't blame him too hard for what he is doing right now... it's just that this is not what he has been promising people before the elections and instead of explaining the new program properly the whole government left on holidays.
#11
Teachers: just like any other profession you care to mention, the world over - there are good'uns, and there are bad'uns. Except only teachers have the chance to tell everyone how great and noble they are, for a good few years of all of our lives. Nice scam opportunity that some of the bad'uns choose to exploit.
#13
#9 LOL. you're in rare form this morning, BigEd.
#11 Bulldog:"....Except only teachers have the chance to tell everyone how great and noble they are...." Well,BD, on this side of the pond politicans also do that. And, occasionally, they're caught at in spite of the cover provided by like minded members of the partisan media. No particular pol in mind, (but I hear he once confided in a friend that he was a hero of the Vietnam war.)
BY DEREK ROSE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER (lock up the invading 'protesters' by the thousands if required)
For an hour and a half last night, thousands of unruly cyclists had the run of some of Manhattan's most famous streets. At each intersection, a few bikers would stop and block traffic, infuriating cabbies and other motorists. Whistling, hooting and hollering, the pedalers turned the car-free streets into their own private playgrounds. "It was fantastic," said Bismarck Decastillo, 39, a thrift store worker from the south Bronx. "The people protested, with freedom. When people can get together, we can do something."
"Whose streets? Our streets," was their slogan, repeated endlessly through the night. Most pedestrians applauded and cheered, although a few gave one-fingered salutes. But the motorists honked in frustration. On Houston St., bikers pounded on the windows of a black Mercedes-Benz they thought had driven recklessly through the weaving bicycles. "A protest? What are they protesting - cabs?" asked one puzzled man as he watched the traffic-snarling procession.
The cyclists first headed south from Union Square down Broadway, bore west onto Houston St., turned north onto Sixth Ave., east onto W. 30th St. and north on Madison Ave. Then they turned west on Central Park South to Columbus Circle before heading down Broadway and Seventh Ave. through Times Square. Cops held up traffic on W. 42nd St. to let the bikers through. But as the protesters reached W. 34th St. - just north of Madison Square Garden, site of the Republican National Convention - police quickly moved in and began making arrests for blocking traffic, stunning the crowd. "We were standing there, and the police in riot gear came," said Becca Jensen, 22, of the East Village. "It was like it was planned. It was like they set us up."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/28/2004 9:19:52 PM ||
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Gotta love bicyclists willing to tangle with a 3000-lb automobile.
RNC Protest Emergency Number
I hope you never need this but write it on your palm anyway.
If you are arrested or detained, call the National Lawyers Guild at 212-679-6018. They will also have 400 to 500 lawyers and legal observers in the crowds on Sunday. They are wearing green hats.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
08/28/2004 4:29:02 AM ||
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"Help! Help! I've been arrested in Teheran! Can you get me out?" (((click)))
#5
the NYPost has a good post re: the NYPD - complaint board doing early outreach to the 750 protest orgs:
August 28, 2004 -- THE Civilian Complaint Review Board â the city agency that investigates complaints against the New York police â is hoping for a windfall: Surely the protests around the Republican National Convention will bring it a whole new set of clients.
Such a fabulous contingency is not something you just leave to chance, however. So the CCRB has sent out about 750 e-mails to anti-RNC groups across the world seeking their business.
Like any good marketer who understands the power of the face-to-face appeal, the agency has offered protesters from Pakistan to Peninsula, Calif., the opportunity to meet personally with its staff "to discuss the CCRB's work and the investigative process."
The $9.3 million agency perennially complains about inadequate manpower and budget, yet it apparently can set aside time to meet with such groups as "The Vomitorium" and "African Ancestral Lesbians United for Societal Change" to go over its new, customer-friendly complaint system.
The agency also posted information on the Web site of United for Peace and Justice, the umbrella organization for convention protest, on how to file complaints by dialing 311 or going on the Internet.
This Web blitz is just the latest step in the CCRB's convention preparations. All year, the agency has been pressuring the NYPD for speedy access to police records for what it "assumes" will be a barrage of complaints from demonstrators. It has argued that officers on horseback should identify themselves more prominently, so as to make complaints easier. And CCRB workers have been attending monthly meetings of the Campaign to Demilitarize the Police, according to a Campaign spokesman.
*snip*
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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#6
someone should post that number to DU and say it's the NY ProtestWarrior HQ. Let them shut themselves down.
PROTESTS TAKE A NASTY SWING IN BX.
By PERRY CHIARAMONTE and JOE McGURK
Vandals hacked up fairways and spray-painted political slogans on a city golf course in The Bronx early yesterday, as protesters geared up for an anti-GOP protest march tomorrow past the Republican convention site. The graffiti — which included the slogans "Stop the War!" and "Politics Isn't Business" — was discovered at Van Cortlandt Golf Course and on nearby lawns and tunnels, parks officials said. Van Cortland is one of the oldest public golf courses in the US and was the setting for a classic Three Stooges episode in the 30s.
"There was extensive damage to holes 15 through 18," said Parks and Recreation Commissioner Adrian Benepe. Holes damaged by 'holes, how appropriate.
Members of United for Peace and Justice — which was denied a permit for a giant rally in Central Park — were planning for a 250,000-strong march tomorrow to begin at noon on 14th Street and Seventh Avenue. Gotta do the conversion: 250,000 in post-modern hippy notation....hmmm....er, that's about.....lessee....35,000 in old-fashiioned Eurocentric oppressor notation.
The group urges protesters to "disperse peacefully at Union Square, and then make your own way to the Great Lawn." A steady drumbeat of other protests was under way yesterday. In Central Park, 50 protesters dressed in garbage bags — representing the body bags of U.S. servicemen killed in Iraq — laid down on the Great Lawn to spell the word "NO." I've advocated putting protestors in garbage bags for years.
Earlier, hundreds of Bush-bashing mommies — many of them with children — marched across the Brooklyn Bridge. "War is harmful to children and terrorists and other living things."
A dozen members of the women's group Code Pink crowded into the Midtown South precinct yesterday with a banner saying "Women for peace." A cop described the protest as pleasant and non-confrontational. Bitches for burqas.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
08/28/2004 4:03:10 AM ||
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What's the deal with the weird link on the title?
#2
No idea. Normally, iirc, the source appears at the bottom left if it is not converted to a url, but this one converted itself to a (non-workable) link on the title bar.
#3
I gave up trying to submit links like that. They get trashed everytime I have tried. I don't even submit them. www.rantburg.com is appended to them some how along with % and the number 22. Must be some Visual Basic thing. I don't know VB.
Well this is par for the course, no pun intended. I wonder how many regular old democrat duffers have been deprived of their usual game on account of this anarco clowns.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 7:30 Comments ||
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#5
When you're posting the link, make sure it's the full URL, e.g. "HTTP://www.stuff.com/news/article.html". If you don't post it as a full path or include the HTML, then the link will be interpreted by everyone's browsers to be a sub-path of Rantburg, e.g. "www.stuff.com/news/article.html" will look something like "HTTP://www.rantburg.com/www.stuff.com/news/article.html". Ensure the "HTTP://" is in there to show the full path, or it will be interpreted as a relative path.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/28/2004 8:24 Comments ||
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Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/28/2004 00:49 ||
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Alcee Hastings? They're letting that asshole convicted impeached judge that accepted bribes on an FBI sting actually OVERSEE the elections in Broward?
Thats fraud waiting to happen - he will CREATE fraud there!
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/28/2004 12:55:54 AM ||
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Why bother? Leave her where she is, and let the public vote her ass out if they don't like her. If they want to keep her as their representative, well then, any controversy she creates will be their damn problem.
#11
Gentle, from what I know, if you post a comment before you post article, it takes longer. Try posting your article before any comments. I saw an article by you the next day once before.
Ask yourself a question. Why would some Canadien MP care whether the US develops anti-missle defense technology. Whats in it for her? Why does she not want the US to have a defense capability that doesn't effect Canada? Would actually help Canada. What foreign power would be in agreement with her stance? Perhaps a China, NK, or maybe France? Sounds like Parrish is a paid for stooge.
#12
Why would some Canadien MP care whether the US develops anti-missle defense technology. Whats in it for her?
Votes. The missile defense program has not been explained very well in the past by Jean Chretien. Alot of Canadians confuse this new program with the costly Star Wars weaponization of space program that was promoted in the US and Canada 20 years ago. Because of this confusion, Parrish is pulling a typical politician trick - she has tested the wind and has figured out that at this point in time, the missile defense program is hugely unpopular with the majority of Canadians, mainly because they don't know what it is.
But Canadians are not the only ones in the dark-if you were to question a sampling of Americans in major cities here, you would get similarly confused responses.
What foreign power would be in agreement with her stance? Perhaps a China, NK, or maybe France? Sounds like Parrish is a paid for stooge.
I think you are positing conspiracy theories that do not exist. Parrish is an opportunist. She hears that the majority of Canadians and her constituents specifically are negative about the missile the defence system, so she goes with the flow. No need to dig too deeply to get a reason for Parrish's position. She's a small town politician-I sincerely doubt she "takes lunch" with international "movers and shakers."
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 21:05 Comments ||
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#13
Rex, None of that answers my question. Smoke still. Poll driven crap? Votes? Why would Canadiens be afraid of US defense policy. No dog there!
#16
Well it ain't. It's surface based anti-missle missles
True enough but neither Cdn. nor American politicians have done much to explain the system to JQ Public. Reagan's Star Wars concept got far more publicity, much of it negative, and that is what sticks in people's minds.
She's a stupid cow.
Well, we have a few of those critters ourselves on this side of the border.
Posted by: rex ||
08/29/2004 2:38 Comments ||
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#17
They may be afraid of a day in future where those weapons will be used against them.
I mean, even if it is a person you completley trust. You wouldn't like him to point a gun at you, right?
Even if the trigger is in place.
[Just so you don't turn it into a muslim joke:
Muslims are not allowed to point anything that could be weapon at another muslim]
#21
The French left when I was a little kid. I am 52 now. So that was a long time ago. Those dead folks are all Muslims killed by Muslims. We are not talking about the French. The French have there own pile of dead to account for. Some 40 years ago.
#22
Hell, Gentle, I don't think arabs should even be allowed plastic sporks. It's too damn dangous for yawl to have have sharp objects. I think it's time to ban scissors from most of the ME.
I know we ain't s'posed to post opinion pieces, but this article is too thought provoking to to be read and commented on. Fascinating read.
Posted by: badanov ||
08/28/2004 8:08:08 AM ||
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But Kerry would be another soap opera. We don't need a daytime TV actor telling how he saved on his car insurance. And how he thought we should care.
#2
What a grand idea... The totalitarian left could finish packing the courts, especially the Supreme Court, with their ACLU bully boys who really, truly believe in free speech for everyone (not just pornographers) and really, really don't want to just dictate their agenda from the bench no matter what the voters may think. You know, just ask the Boy Scouts (and any CA judges who may wish to still have an association with the Scouts). And no Christians will be rolled in court for "hate" speech so that their livelihoods will be removed from them.
In four years, we may well be the Soviet Union without any of the benefits. Don't be fooled. This path the left is taking has been tread before.
Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, cancelled a weekend visit to attend the closing ceremony of the Olympics, prompting Greek Communists to claim it as a victory for anti-American protests.
There were fears that General Powell's appearance at tonight's closing ceremony would have been booed by spectators, marring the festivities. The US State Department made the announcement hours after police used tear gas in central Athens on Friday night to break up a march by about 1,500 demonstrators protesting at his one-day trip.
The Greek Communist Party went ahead with its demonstration yesterday morning. Several hundred protesters marched peacefully through the capital, waving red flags and banners denouncing General Powell and US foreign policy.
Greece's Foreign Ministry said General Powell told his counterpart, Petros Moliviatis, that "urgent responsibilities" prevented him from making the visit, which was to include meetings with athletes and government leaders. In Washington, the State Department said the protests played no role in the decision. But the prospect of television pictures of anti-US demonstrations on the eve of the Republican Convention in New York may also have been a factor.
The legal watchdog group Judicial Watch announced the release of
recently declassified documents that indicate Sen. John Kerry accepted laundered contributions from the communist Chinese government for his 1996 re-election campaign.
In exchange, Judicial Watch suspects, the presidential candidate might have arranged meetings between Chinese aerospace executives and U.S. government officials.
"These disturbing FBI documents raise further questions about Sen.
Kerry's involvement in what looks like a quid pro quo [cash for
meetings] with the communist Chinese," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.
An Insight magazine report published by WND [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39844]earlier this month revealed a new photograph has emerged showing the Massachusetts senator in Beijing working with a company associated with the Chinese military.
Judicial Watch obtained the FBI documents, related to the "Chinagate" investigation in the 1990s, through Freedom of Information Act and Privacy Act.
The "Chinagate" probe looked into the Clinton campaign's acceptance of contributions from Chinese government sources.
Among the documents released is an investigative outline [PDF file http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/chungkerry2.pdf] dated March 27, 1998, that details the FBI's "proposed areas of inquiry" into the actions of Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung.
Those include questioning Chung about meetings Kerry set up with China aerospace executives and about a fund-raising event for the senator in Los Angeles.
The other document, [PDF file http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/chungkerry1.pdf] dated Aug. 24, 1998, requests a polygraph of Chung, mentioning he laundered contributions for the Clinton/Gore '96 election campaign and for Kerry.
Judicial Watch is appealing the FBI's decision to keep portions of the heavily redacted documents secret.
Chung pled guilty in March 1998 to election law violations and, in a plea bargain, began cooperating with the FBI.
The Washington, D.C.-based group represents Chung in a lawsuit against Justice Department officials who, during the Clinton administration, leaked information about Chung's cooperation with the department's Campaign Finance Task Force.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/28/2004 03:02 ||
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Some people would contend that this is a crisis and that every person not on the job for 40-plus hours a week is suffering.
More likely some Democrats would contend this.
My job isn't 40 hours a week - I also have a part-time business - and I'm not "suffering." In fact, if you want to make me suffer, force me into a 40-hour-a-week job like I used to have.
Have I mentioned I really detest socialists?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/28/2004 18:03 Comments ||
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more fun and embellishment
Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.
"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.
The additional language varied from the two previous citations, signed first by Adm. Elmo Zumwalt and then Adm. John Hyland, which themselves differ. The new material added in the Lehman citation reads in part: "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself...." LOL - another self-written AAR?
Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.
Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan could not be reached for comment on Kerry's records.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 10:59:16 AM ||
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This is a non-issue. If John F. Kerry mispalced (threw over a fence) his original medal/citation, the DOD allows you to get a replacement of these awards. I guessing that if the Navy didn't have a copy of the original, then Frenchie probably (I am not certain) provided a narrative for the replacement award.
#2
Sarge -- Kerry didn't loose the original. He also has two other versions of the same citation around.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/28/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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#3
true - a non-issue, but adds to the picture of a biography-polishing creep
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 11:22 Comments ||
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Kerry is attempting to keep his entire voting record a âtotal mysteryâ, but that too shall change in the final election countdown.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/28/2004 11:43 Comments ||
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#5
Wait, does that mean that high government officials use autopens for official documents? I thought those things were for minor tasks, like signatures on form letters and the like. If somebody's using autopens for something as official as a silver star citation, something's gone awry, if you ask me.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
08/28/2004 13:24 Comments ||
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The following quote is from a link posted by BigEd yesterday, but bears repeating. ...let us consult the Boston Globe for the same day (May 18,1996): âThe military is a rigorous culture that places a high premium on battlefield accomplishment,â said Sen. John F. Kerry, who received numerous decorations, including a Bronze Star with a "V" pin, as a Navy lieutenant in Vietnam. âIn a sense, there's nothing that says more about your career than when you fought, where you fought and how you fought,â Kerry said.
âIf you wind up being less than what youâre pretending to be, there is a major confrontation with value and self-esteem and your sense of how others view you.â
Of Boorda and his apparent violation, Kerry said: âWhen you are the chief of them all, it has to weigh even more heavily.â Such as Commander-in-Chief, John? For once I agree with Kerry. More the reason for him to come completely clean on his war and anti-war records.
via Command Post, with thanks to Alaska Paul.
It looks like Lesely Stahl at CBS is the one who broke the story and has the most detailed report:
60 Minutes Correspondent Lesley Stahl reports the FBI believes it has "solid" evidence that the suspected mole supplied Israel with classified materials that include secret White House policy deliberations on Iran.
At the heart of the investigation are two people who work at The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a powerful pro-Israel lobby in Washington.
The FBI investigation, headed up by Dave Szady, has involved wiretaps, undercover surveillance and photography that CBS News was told document the passing of classified information from the mole, to the men at AIPAC, and on to the Israelis.
A reader just sent me these points transcribed from Stahl's report:
The alleged spy works within the office of the Secretary of Defense.
He/she supplied Israel with classified materials that include secret White House policy deliberations on Iran.
He/she passed classified information to two men who work at AIPAC who passed it to Israel.
Is described as a trusted analyst at the Pentagon.
Turned over a Presidential directive on US policy towards Iran while it was in the draft phase when US policy makers were still debating the policy.
The analyst had ties to top Pentagopn officials Wolfowitz and Feith, and was assigned to a unit with the Defense Dept, wher he was helping develop the Pentagon's Iraq policy.
Apparently this happened a while ago, but it's just being reported today.
#2
Hmmm. the fact that Lesley Stahl knows about this makes me wonder; who told her? If they havenât yet rolled them up, one would expect this to be a top, top, top, secret. Soooâ¦do o we have more than one spy? Someone had to provide the tip. Wouldnât it be weird if it was someone like wolfy himselfâ¦..???? nah. But someone had to tip off the media. Who was it???
#4
Great, more fuel to the conspiracy lunatics throughout the Left and Middle East. :(
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
08/28/2004 0:36 Comments ||
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#5
When the Bush appointee took over in the Pentagon Inspector General's office, some taps were found. Wolfowitz might have installed them during the Reagan presidency.
The Israelis are pretty insideous. Word is that they even had a mole in the Office of Homeland Security for the State of New Jersey.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/28/2004 0:40 Comments ||
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#6
CNN and the other dhimmi networks led with this all day, as though the Israeli threat were a front-burner issue, especially compared to Islamic subversion. The latter, in fact, is only dealt with in the context of bogus civil rights complaints and other whining from terrorist shills like CAIR.
Tonight on PBS, of all places, I saw Tucker Carlson do an excellent and very fair interview with Sam Harris, author of The End of Faith. Harris is one of the leading theoreticians of the current war, and declares flatly that it is a struggle, a showdown, between Islam and the secular west.
#7
They may be hoping that the "spy" will fall on his sword or does something stupid.
I never thought the Mossad was not spying on the US. Israel can't exist without the support of the US. They would be fools not to keep a good eye on it. They would be fools to get caught again in an election year.
#10
I agree with you, #7. Even allies need to "peep" on each other to reinforce the certainty that everyone is on the same page.
However, if this allegation turns out to be true...ie. that the "mole" has gone beyond what is accepted "peeping" and actually engaged in influence peddling on Israel's behalf re: our foreign policy, then it could be a very nasty situation and it could hurt GWB's re-election hopes - that is, unless, GWB personally gave Ashcroft the thumbs up to pursue the wire taps, etc.
Neither Israel nor any other ally has the right to plant "moles" in high places to influence our policy to further their agenda. Get real. It's one thing for special interest groups to openly lobby gov't officials to influence policy-that's upfront, but it is quite a different thing all together for a another sovereign nation to surepticiously influence our country's policy so as to promote what's in its self-serving best interest.
I hope this "breaking story" by Stahl turns out to be much to do about nothing.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 1:35 Comments ||
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#11
OS: And they should get no different treatment: life in prison, or execution, depending on the damage that disclosure of the information could cause.
I don't think spying for a friendly country is a capital offense. The guy who sold out our agents to the Soviets wasn't executed. The Korean guy got 20 years.
#12
SH: The Israelis are pretty insideous. Word is that they even had a mole in the Office of Homeland Security for the State of New Jersey.
The Governor of NJ installed his lover in a $100K a year job and then tried to cover it up. The guy failed at all his other jobs as well. Doesn't sound like a well-oiled Mossad operation at all.
#13
I don't understand why Pollard is still incarcerated unless the case against him is not fully declassified. My understanding is that he gave Israel information about our GWI plans prior to our invasion of Kuwait so that our ally could protect itself.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/28/2004 2:11 Comments ||
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#14
OS: Israel is not on our side at times. Ask the crew of the Liberty.
This has been debunked over and over again. Why bring it up? The Israelis asked if an American ship was in the area. The Pentagon said no. They assumed it was a false flag operation by the Egyptians and opened up on the ship. They stopped attacking it after they realized it really was an American ship despite earlier Pentagon denials.
#15
SH,
Pollard is in prison because he abused the trust placed the US placed in him and spied against the US. That makes him a traitor in my book. He should have been executed.
Posted by: ed ||
08/28/2004 2:18 Comments ||
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#16
I thought the Pentagon spy was a Muslim, with multiple aliases!
(Were there 2 spies in the Pentagon?)
And the sources for this "Israeli spy" story are all the usual Leftist MSM alphabet sources: CBS, CNN, WaPo.
Wait for the real story.
And note to above: ISRAEL is our biggest friend in the world next to Britain, Italy and Australia! (and Japan and Poland)
#17
ISRAEL is our biggest friend in the world next to Britain, Italy and Australia! (and Japan and Poland
Israel is a good ally. I don't think I'd put Israel above the UK or Canada or Australia or more recently Italy and Poland. Israel is equal to other allies but not above them, unless you can prove otherwise.
Regardless, none of our allies should influence our foreign policy surepticiously for its best interests. Wake up, jen, and get off the rah, rah band wagon. You are an American first.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 2:44 Comments ||
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#18
Actually it has NOT been debunked. If you had seen some of the things I have seen, you'd know it was deliberate. They were afraid we would tip their hand because the US intelligence system at that time leaked like a sieve to the Russians (and from there to the Arabs).
Moshe Dyan was a cold blooded son of a bitch, former Haganah member, and wsa appointed to Min.Def only a few days prior - which accounts for his rash actions - and his ability to concoct good cover stories.
The outline of the ship was nothing like that cattle-carrier Egyptian ship. They were in international waters. They were flying a brand new ensign - US Flag (I've seen it personally at the National Cryptological Museum). Israeli aircraft had patrolled close enough to wave to the crew of the ship and had been up overnight before the attack. Intercepts made public have shownthe Israeli piltos calling back the position of the (and this is a direct quote) American Ship. 7 different sorties observed the ship, with 13 total encircling flights made at close range to the ship.
This Israelis attacked unprovoked with rockets, strafing the decks. They followed this up with a NAPALM attack to set fires in the holes their rockets had punched.
Thier motor torpedo boats attacked from inside visual range put several torpedoes in the water at the unarmed ship in international waters. THey racked the decks, bridge and other areas of the superstructure with heavy machingun fire, and firing 5 torpedoes at the ship.
During the entire attack, they used barrage jammers to prevent the ship from sending out a distress signal.
This went on for over an hour and 15 minutes.
It was no mistake. It was a deliberate act, and one that the politicians at the time swallowed up due to the cold war. There was no mistake of the identity - they were well within visual range. They knew the ship was American, they knew its configuration was different from the Egytian ship tha they later tried to use as a coverup excuse. The Israelis LIED as surely as Kerry did.
I've worked with them - they are generally good people, top notch operators and intel people. Thats why the excuses don't wash - they simply do not screw up that badly. The "case closed" places on the net are false, and are missing some vital information that maybe some day will finally be declassified.
Isreal is vicious when it comes to their politicians. Israel will attack ANYONE it feels is on the wrong side, and that includes the USA. They are an ally of sorts, but one to be kept at arms length and a wary eye cast on them at all times. They will lie when it suits them.
This is not anti-semitism - this has nothign to do with ther religion, but everythign to do with the way their government, military and intelligence services work. Their backs are against the sea, so they made a deliberate decision to overreact on the side of preserving Israel rahter than allowing for a possiblity that thier percived survival coudl be threatened, even if it means killing allies.
I see why they do what they do, but no matter how you wrap it, it was an illegal, hostile and uncalled for act of war in international waters. They Israelis still refuse to this day to have courts martial for the miscreants involved in the slaughter - that alone tells a large part of the tale.
As for Pollard, he took an oath, and broke it - he had full knowledge of the consequences of his actions. They should have hung him, like they should have hung the whole Walker clan.
In James Bamford's latest book, "BODY OF SECRETS" which has a chapter on the Liberty, he discloses that NSA has audio tapes showing that the Israeli pilots were talking about seeing an American flag. The tapes were made by a NSA-operated EC-121 surveillance aircraft which was flying above the area at the time.
#20
No!
and they figured that all by themselves?!
Wow, we really should give them some credit.
I mean, they thought people would believe this is the work of just one person?
Huh!
#21
Right on OldSpook. This "mistake" was bebunked by PBS quite a few years ago. Every time I hear it was a mistake I think of the crap holocaust deniers spew. I put "this was a mistake" on the same intellectual level. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. It was no mistake. Our government lied to cover it up. Israel is not out biggest friend. Israel is our biggest target of foreign aid and military support. Israel has no use for the US other than that. As a non-self lothing "semite" who is a US citizen don't call me an anti-semite, I am a realist. My allegiance is to Jesus Christ my risen lord and savior and to the United States of America in that order, not Israel. Israel uses us in the same way we use it.
The probe is focusing on whether the senior official, who has not been identified by name, disclosed classified information related to White House policy toward Iran.
The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the suspected mole works in the office of Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense for policy who is considered one of the top three officials in the Pentagon. One U.S. official said the FBI had unconfirmed information that Mr. Feith supplied information to Israel in the 1980s. However, the officials declined to provide further information citing the ongoing investigation. It could not be learned whether arrests are expected in the case. But a third official, also speaking anonymously, said an arrest could come as early as next week.
Bush administration officials have said tensions are rising between Israel and Iran and there are concerns that Israel may conduct a military strike on Iran's Bushehr nuclear reactor, which is being built with Russian assistance, but which has not been supplied with nuclear fuel.
One official said the suspected Pentagon spy supplied Israel with a draft presidential directive relating to U.S. policy toward Iran.
Critics of Mr. Feith have said that he and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz are pro-Israel "neoconservatives" who sway U.S. policy, including policy on Iraq, favoring Israel.
Supporters of Mr. Feith and Mr. Wolfowitz have dismissed the criticism as anti-Semitic.
Officials said Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has been notified about the investigation. The Pollard case was considered a major counterintelligence breakthrough for the FBI in 1985, which had been seeing indications of Israeli intelligence gathering for years but had been limited from taking action.
The Israeli intelligence services have worked closely with the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies for decades and have provided valuable information on international terrorism. However, the Pollard case led to temporary disruption in U.S.-Israeli intelligence sharing.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 3:42 Comments ||
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#23
ZF, I was kidding about Cipel.
OS, Islamic fanatics have seemed to have been on a mission to drive Israel and the US together since the Beruit bombing. Our suport of Nasser probably looked to the Israelis about the same as our support of Sharon looks to Hamas today.
I wonder if our reluctance to kill for expeditious reasons, causes morons like al-Sadr to believe that we won't kill him?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/28/2004 3:45 Comments ||
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#24
rex, actually I put Bill Gertz's stuff at the WashTimes on a par with Debka file--not all that reliable...
and Canada is only just an ally, hanging on by their toenails.
#25
I put Bill Gertz's stuff at the WashTimes on a par with Debka file
Who do you trust? - "Hamil" at HealingIraq and his "brother" Tamil??? yuk, yuk...B-E-L-I-E-V-E! you go girl!
and Canada is only just an ally, hanging on by their toenails.
Yet another doofus Jenniferism. Toenails? Canada just happened to fight with us cheek to jowl in WWI, WWII, the Korean War, Canadians actually VOLUNTEERED to fight in Vietnam, Desert Storm, Kosovo War, Afghanistan, sub rosa in the Iraq War...give me an f**king break-TOENAILS my foot. Always the contrarian, never normal, that's you, jen. If it were not for the open spigot of Canadian natural gas, crude oil, at this time of war when our armed forces are using so much Saudi fuel, at the domestic level we'd be up a creek without a paddle. Not to mention Canadian water and hydro-electric power. How much foreign aid have we given Canada over the past 100 years? ZERO. Toenails my foot. Grow up.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 4:12 Comments ||
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#26
C'mon, rex, what has Canada done for us in recent history? Senior gov't politicians have not only blamed America for inciting Al Quaeda to attack us on 9/11, they mocked our decision to defend ourselves. Canadian gov't officials not only privately dislike our current president, those who publically insult him have not been punished for it. Canada aligned itself with France at the U.N. and elsewhere. Their FCC permits the broadcast of Al Jazeera, but not Fox News. They starve their own military of funds, depending on the US to protect them in time of need, then castigate us for being unnecessarily warlike. Ie, the entire classic panoply of anti-Americanism.
Unfortunately, in these troubled times Canada is choosing to be more of an "ally" in the mold of France, than a dependable friend to the north.
#27
If there is a spy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, and I share the general sentiment that there ought to be severe consequences for espionage.
I have a slightly different take on the Liberty attack. There is a scenario, I beleive, where the Israeli pilots see a ship with a US flag on it and still attack, believing it to be unfriendly. I originally put this in the comments of One Hand Clapping, after this post. Unfortunately, the rest of the comments, which were quite good, seem to have vanished.
For the record, I do not beleive that any criticsm of Isreal's actions in the Liberty incident is in any way anti-semitic. And I stand open to correction in my interpretation. Anyway:
Interestingly, John Piña Craven (of _Blind Man's Bluff fame) mentions the USS Liberty as a sidelight while discussing another topic in his book _The Silent War_.
On page 140, he is talking about the covert activities of the USS Halibut:
The first scheduled Soviet missile tests that we were supposed to be ready to observe took place in February 1968. This put us on a tight schedule. Only one of our towed bodies, or "fish" -- devices towed by a ship or a sub on a wire cable -- had been completed on time. On the first day of operational test and evaluation it was launched and slid out of the launching tube into the deep blue sea. Someone had failed to secure the shackle to the towing cable. Another fish had to be transported to Pearl Harbor in time or the elaborately planned operation would have to be canceled. Carefully designed as an irrelevant piece of hardware, the replacement fish was loaded on the first ship bound for the war zone in Vietnam via Hawaii, but the precious cargo was never unloaded. Instead it was mistakenly carried to Vietnam and offloaded on a dock there with no one to call for it and no one to care. Standard, expedited, and emergency measures for its recovery were to no avail. We could not reveal the significance of the cargo to anyone -- and no one, in the midst of that war, with enough authority to retrieve it, could understand why this search would have priority over the war effort.
This was not the only time that intelligence constraints required that a mission be abandoned, sometimes with tragic consequences. One June 8, 1967, Israel launched an air attack against the USS Liberty during the Arab-Israeli Six Day War. all U.S. ships had been warned to vacate the war zone. But the intelligence ship Liberty had instructions to respond only to orders received through highly secure back-channel communications. The message sent via that channel was too slow in arriving and the Liberty was attacked with significant loss of American lives. To avoid repetition, a military officer in the Pentagon was authorized to make direct contact with the Joint Chiefs of Staff when petitioned to do so, if in his estimation immediate action at that level was justified in the interests of national security. I made that petition to try to retrieve our fish from Vietnam and was turned down. Undeterred, I contacted the most senior aide on the staff of the Joint Chiefs...
I believe Craven's context I included here is important.
When Craven says "highly secure back-channel", I believe this means absolutely 100% spoof-proof. The objective is this -- No one can issue false orders to the Liberty. At the same time, the Liberty is not a combat ship, it is an information-gatherer. This means, even in the tense Cold War environment, the Liberty will almost never have to do things immediately.
So I think it is logical to assume that the Liberty was told not to respond to any sort of radio transmission whatsoever. I would guess that the only valid orders would come from an actual emissary - a man who would be known to the CO and XO.
After the attack happened the Liberty refused offers of help from the Israeli torpedo boats, and an Israeli helicopter. The helicopter had the US Naval Attache to Israel on board. Although that would probably be a good idea in a situation as grave as this, it might be that a flesh-and-bones human is the only thing the Liberty can accept orders from.
(Of course, this is all supposition. If you see a flaw in my reasoning, fire away!)
The account goes that Israeli pilots had the ship under surveillance for some time before the attack. I am sure that is true. No, the Liberty could not have been mistaken for any other ship. But wow much ship identification had the pilots received? In one account I have read, the IAF pilots were looking only for a large white "X" painted on the deck, which the Israeli Navy used to ID their ships. And the pilots doing the recon may not have been the same ones attacking.
Imagine this - IAF hq gets a report about this ship. IAF asks US Navy - are all your ships clear? USN says: we gave the order.
Now, back to Craven's context. Craven, to get his fish back from Vietnam, had to go to - not Westmoreland - but the Joint Chiefs of Staff! That is really high up. If the Israeli air force query only went as far as USCINCNAVEUR he might not know about the secret channel Liberty must get her orders from.
So he says - no US ships nearby. While some of the Israeli pilots seemed to know something was wrong, this was 1967. They didn't have real-time video feed. So the Israeli commander is faced with a dilemma - the US says all USN ships are clear. Israeli pilots report a US ship. Is it false colors? In this case, the safe thing for the Israeli commander to do is strike.
I'm sure President Johnson did order that the board of inquiry find that it was mistaken identity, for two reasons: a) it was the truth and b) to protect the highly classified channel of communications. The details and reasons might be not entirely public, but as Craven constantly points out in his book, "All cover stories must be true."
As to the proposed motive for the attack - Bamford's explanation is weak. First, as Wretchard (great blog, BTW) points out, this thing would not be done to protect a mere division commander.
Did the POW massacre happen? Probably. Such POW shootings are not unknown, even in the US Army. Have you ever read _Citizen Soldiers_ by Stephen Ambrose?
Apathy on the part of the CO is enough to allow such individual slayings to progress to a large scale. This was certainly the case with Sharon's actions in Lebanon. He knew, but he just didn't care. It wasn't important to him. Which leads me to my second point - how much ELINT would such a massacre really produce? Do you really need to get on the radio to slaughter a few hundred unarmed men? Or just, "Hey, you, pull up that tank with a machine gun." Would the perpetrators depress the transmit key during the slaughter, or just get on with it.
Point number three - if the massacres had already been reported on Tel Aviv radio, why on earth would Israel risk everything, and I mean *everything* to cover up something that's already in the public domain?
Let us examine the matter of this independent panel. The AP article on the same event as Rev. Sensing's UPI article says the following -
>>He [Boston] said he felt compelled to "share the truth" following the publication of a recent book, "The Liberty Incident," which concluded the attack was unintentional...<<
And, later in the article: >>The panel also included a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins. <<
So, Boston keeps quiet all this time, but suddenly feels a deep desire to come clean, right after this book comes out. And the panel just happens to have a former US ambassador to Saudi.
That was the end of my comment on Sensing's site. I must say that Old Spook's explanation of Israel wanting to prevent a leaky US intel organization from tipping off the Russkies and the Arabs is more convincing on it's face than Bamford's Israel wanted to hide Sharon's POW massacre.
But, as Rev. Sensing points out in his post: Analysis of the tapes were not done until the tapes were sent to NSA headquarters. 1967 was the dark ages, technologically speaking. The tapes had to be physically transported to NSA for analysis; there was no way to uplink the data for download back in the States.
There was little or no real-time data transfer to the leaky US intel agencies. Any sensitive data sucked up by the Liberty would have taken a while to filter back to the US. So, in my opinion, the risk/reward ratio for Israel would be negligible. The sieve-like nature of US intel at the time would have been an ongoing concern for Israel, but there wouldn't have been sufficient motive for an attack for that reason.
Posted by: Pete Stanley ||
08/28/2004 6:06 Comments ||
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#28
Gentle, dear, please use referents for your pronouns. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
#29
Pete thats interesting but I don't think that Israel would accept any excuse if we murdered members of it's armed forces. I am certain a US vessel in international waters an obviously unarmed vessel is not fair game. LBJ was a son of a bitch. He was complicit. No amount of secrecy justifies covering up and denying what happened. The problem is the US Goverment still wont own up to it's deceit.
My personal opinion of Sharon is he an assclown. If he wasn't in such a pissing contest with Yassar this crap might just be over by now. But Israel is free to elect who they want.
#30
Thanks, trailing wife, for getting my back on Canada!
I still say that this is about a Muslim spy, but you're all off on the Liberty and Israel!
Israel's apologized for the incident, I believe.
Anon6193, If you're really a Christian, then you'll love God's Chosen People, the Hebrews (Israelites), too.
Be sure and check out the first part of your Bible, the Old Testament.
#31
Anon6193, you're showing your ignorance.
PM Sharon is anything but an "*ssclown."
Sharon is a brilliant strategist and Israel is finally getting someplace with the fence and is free from terror attacks.
His war with the Paleostinians is OUR war--same enemy: IslamoFacists.
And Sharon and Bush are working very closely together, too.
We stand by Israel for all the right reasons--they're a democracy, we're linked by many common citizens and we're linked by our Faith.
Now, we're linked in our fight to defeat radical Islam, too.
The Israelis are Good and goodly people; our enemy is Evil and works for the Devil.
If, as a Christian, you can can't "get this," then I don't understand why because it's just that simple.
If it turns out that they've put a spy in the Pentagon, so what?
Israel doesn't like to take chances and who can blame her?
As a person who professes faith in Christ--who was also a Jew--you should pray for our Jewish friends that they might accept Christ as the Messiah and Savior, too, instead of railing on them the way you do!
#32
Just read the article again:
The Israelis are clearly worried about Iran--so am I.
One Iranian nuke could destroy a good part of tiny little Israel and her inhabitants.
I noted that the story mentions Feith and Wolfowitz: Oh, yes!
And so I detect another "neocon" (code for "Jew") smear.
If the Dimocrat/Kerry thing won't work for the Lying Liberal Left Mainstream Media, they can always go the Pat Buchanan route and blame the Jews again...! (Which is why MSNBC has Buchanan on the payroll.)
I am TIRED of this crap!
We're are going to have to deal with Iran and if we can help Israel and/or they can help us, super!
They probably have more than one nuke location and it will take both of us and our intelligence services to do it.
But once again, the media stirs up the war with their agenda-driven "story."
#33
Jen You can be sure of my understanding of the Torah. I came to Christ from Judaism. Just because the bible tells us that the Israelites are G_D'S choosen ones does not mean the current goverment or even the current people of Israel are those people. I can also love them and not approve of them or their actions at times.
I am a US citizen, my family came here 4 generations ago from Germany. Israel killed my fellow countrymen. I owe no loyalty to Isreal. They can apologise to hell and back It doesn't mean I have to forgive them. They helped hide it and cover up LBJs lies. With the billions in aid and direct grants paid by us with money borrowed from our grand kids they can quit spying on us and putting moles in our government.
As far as the Liberty goes they should put on burlap and ashes everyday for a few years, throw dirt in the air and wail. Put it on TV every day. Then I'll buy their apology. I remain convinced it was an intentional attack. An attack they have yet to atone for.
#34
Well, 6193, sorry to hear it.
You're clearly going to hold a grudge until hell freezes over.
Too bad.
That was 40 years ago.
We've got a war to fight right now and Israel is helping us BIG TIME and God will reward us for standing by Israel, too.
I know they're desperately sorry for the Liberty incident and I think we all should drop it.
Holding on to bitterness and revenge over something you can't do anything about isn't healthy or good for a person in the least.
Ask God to forgive you for your bad attitude, try to see the "good" in a bad event and ask for help to move on with your life.
I've lost loved ones, too, but blaming and hating won't bring them back.
#35
Jen G_D will reward me for being faithful to him and nothing else. If you can find the United States of America anywhere in your bible besides the copyrights and publishing info you have a different bible than I do. The U.S. does not play into bible prophecy.
I didn't say Israel is not an important partner. But they are not our only one. They sure as hell don't pull their own weight. The U.K. and Canada are much more important to us. The U.K. and Canada don't often cause us more trouble than they are worth or get caught spying on us.
No!
and they [the government] figured that [there is an Israel spy] all by themselves?!
Wow, we really should give them some credit.
I mean, they thought people [U.S. citizens] would believe this [the leaks] is the work of just one person?
Huh!
#37
makes no sense still - you're an idiot. If you have nothing to contribute but Arab-pablum-lies and naive dribble, don't bother.It only denigrates you more.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 7:32 Comments ||
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#39
You Liberty conspiracy theorists make absolutely no sense. As if Israel hates America and some Israeli pilots just felt like killing whatever Americans they could find.... whatever!
Pointless killing of Americans is more the Islamic modus operandi than anything that Israel is in the habit of doing. Freud had a word for the type of logical inversion of displayed here - "Projection"
For the truth about the Liberty, re-read Zhang's post #14 a dozen times and maybe you'll start to get it.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 8:18 Comments ||
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#42
"The Israelis are pretty insideous. Word is that they even had a mole in the Office of Homeland Security for the State of New Jersey."
"Good evening, Agent 77. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to go to New Jersey in the USA and blow [inaudible] the governor, Jim McGreevy. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds"
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/28/2004 9:31 Comments ||
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#43
Agent 77, referred to as "Deep Throat" by his handlers....
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 9:38 Comments ||
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#44
Good evening, Agent 77. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to go to New Jersey in the USA and blow [inaudible] the governor, Jim McGreevy. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds
#46
Gentle, Frank is short with you because you keep going over ground that we covered here a couple years ago. Most of us started with the assumption that while terrorism happens to be practiced by some Muslim groups, it wasn't Islam that was doing it. We were, and most of us still are, well-disposed toward Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, and other Muslim countries that are breaking out of the primitivism that Soddy Arabia and Yemen so treasure.
The evidence soon started coming in that terrorims was in fact being driven by a group of clerics and princes. Wahhabism wasn't an unpleasant but isolated sect, but a movement that was intent on, first, taking over Islam, second on taking over the entire world. Arrogant, backward, misogynistic, it represents a mirror image of the society we live in. It gets its authority from its rigid interpretation of the Koran and the Sunnah, and it's determined to bring about a war between "religions," a new crusade that it intends to win.
The west doesn't have "a" religion anymore. There are hundreds of Protestant Christian sects, several strains of Catholicism, Jews of several schools, plus dozens of other religions that range from the silly to the serious. We get by ignoring each other's religion. If I die and go to hell, it's nothing to you.
Our beef is with the political aspect of Islam, and that presents a very real threat. If my son decides to buy a turban and bow down toward Mecca five times a day, that'll be his own (bad) decision. If somebody threatens to cut his head off if he doesn't, then it was my bad decision for not trying to prevent it.
And don't even bother telling me how tolerant Islam is until we can meet in outside an Arabian cathedral for lunch to discuss it. Neither of us has to go inside -- neither of us is a Christian -- but neither of us has the right to tell somebody else what to believe.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/28/2004 10:02 Comments ||
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#47
thank you, Fred - What do you want to bet that doesn't sink in?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 10:06 Comments ||
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#48
Scooter, you have to remember that the US-Israeli relationship back then is not as close as it is now. Barely 10 years before the incident, the US forced Israel and the Europeans (Brits+French) to give back the Suez canal that they seized in the 1956 Sinai war.
And we were fairly friendly with the Jordanians and the Saudis, and we had the Shah of Iran in our corner as well, and prior to Kadahffy, we had a large AFB in Wheelus in Libya.
So the US did not have the strong bilateral ties that we do today. And remember that LBJ was a "power politics" kind of guy, so there the main incentive was to back Israel because Nasser had gone over to the Soviets and dragged Syria with him. Israel did not trust us - we were an ally of convenience. And they already got a lot of their armament from France (remember it was Mirage strike jets that napalmed the Liberty).
Its not the world we now live in. And there are still things unpublished that would shed light on this.
My original point was that we should realize that no matter how close an ally we regard Israel to be, they will spy on us and backstab us if they feel they have to, in order to secure the survival of their country. Anyone viewing it any other way is living in fantasy land.
The problem here is when their politicians feel that radical mesaures are the only ones that can be effective, they will use them. Fortunately, the original Haganah and Irgun terrorist leaders have basically died off, and with them the willingness to do violence aginst western partners. Also, the growth of the US-Israel relationship during the 70's and 80's has cemented things to where even considerign anythign other than "peaceful" espionage against the US by Israel, is basically unthinkable to senior leadership in Israel.
So bottom line: Yes the Israelis are an ally, but a paranoid one who doesnt fully trust us, and will spy on us at the highest levels. The British and Australians are far closer allies, and far more trustworthy.
#49
Guys, too many words -- you'll have Gentle up past her bedtime. Much of this history comes down to sending clear messages to friends and enemies. The message that we should be sending right now in this war on terror is that ALL spies will be promptly prosecuted and shot.
Posted by: Tom ||
08/28/2004 11:17 Comments ||
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#50
that's fair enough, OS, and I'd add that Carter (after his presidency), Clinton, and Kerry, probably have given the Israelis concerns over the depth of US support. W is the first to withdraw diplo cover for Arafat, calling him the source of terror that's he's been all his life. Israel has to look for their interests. Right now, and for the forseeable future, they coincide with ours. I'd guess the intel/policy position may have been deliberately leaked to let Israel know our plans re: Iran (sheer conjecture, I know...) for a coordinated effort?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 11:21 Comments ||
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#51
"The British and Australians are far closer allies, and far more trustworthy."
#53
Quite the thread, folks! We need to look at the so-called spy incident from inside the heads of the Israelis.
Iran is a dog running after its lunch. Israel is a rabbit running for its life. Isreal has no margin of error in its situation vis a vis its hostile neighbors. Hell, the width of the country is a fraction of the width of Chugach State Park here in Anchorage. If the Israelis make a tactical error, they could be overrun in jig time. If the Iranians slap on a Nork or someone elses plutonium bomb on a Shahab-3 missile, Israel could be a radioactively contaminated place for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnng time. They cannot affort to be wrong on basic strategic issues. So they hedge themselves by gathering intel at the highest levels. I am sure that they want to know what the mad mullahs are up to. Whether or not they have moles up that far in the food chain is speculation. But they also need to know US intentions in the worst way because it will affect what they have to do in planning for defense against Iran.
If this incident is true, then it points to the fact that we are not totally open to the Isrealis with our intel. We work closely together, but not that close. The Israelis trying to sell advanced radar to ChiComs reinforces this idea.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/28/2004 12:21 Comments ||
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#54
"But they also need to know US intentions in the worst way because it will affect what they have to do in planning for defense against Iran."
They've also got to be concerned, as never before, about the outcome of our election. If Kerry wins, I suspect the Israelis will figure "We're on our own now, completely; we'll get no further support from the U.S. in dealing with the Iranian threat, and it's up to us to deal with it ourselves."
If John Kerry wins on November 2nd, don't be surprised to wake up the morning of November 3rd to find Iran has been reduced to a pool of bubbling, radioactive slag.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/28/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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#55
Maybe not radioactive slag yet, at least at Bushehr, which has not been fueled yet. The u/g U235 concentrators could create a nasty mess with Uranium hexafluoride hanging around loose after a bombing raid.
Are the Russians holding back on supplying fuel to the Iranian Bushehr reactor because of payment issues, or are they worried about a raid after fueling causing widespread radioactive contamination. After all, most of the reactor work went for cash, and there is promise of more reactors.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/28/2004 12:39 Comments ||
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#56
I believe the man has been outed by the Washington Post. The whole business has the smell of rotting fish, and it isn't coming from the Pentagon.
Follow your nose to CBS and the MSM.
#57
AP: The Israelis trying to sell advanced radar to ChiComs reinforces this idea.
All Israeli arms sales have to be approved by Uncle Sam. This was Clinton using the Israelis as a back-door method of providing US technology to his Chinese paymasters.
#58
The problem with shooting spies: your spies (and suspected spies) will get shot too. Tricky business indeed - you've got to weigh the benefits of being able to recruit and use your own spies against the damage caused by foreign spies, whilst keeping your game as low profile as possible. It's for reasons of expediency that most uncovered spies are simply deported.
#59
I understand your agrument Bulldog, but how would you apply that logic to the Rosenbergs? There should also be an assurance that if you turn traitor there's an excellent chance you will hang.
#61
For those of you who'd like to read some non-conspiritorial assessments of the Liberty Incident, try The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Navy Spy Ship
It most likely was a "fog of war" accident.
Posted by: Norman Rogers ||
08/28/2004 14:07 Comments ||
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#62
Aw shit, Gentle I owe you an apology, I have mistaken you for someone even more ignorant. Unless that ae.net was a random chance.
#63
A. I did more research on the Liberty Incident after reading Old Spook's posts because I was not sure of the details and I came across 2 sites set up by survivors of the attack. Lots of information, if you scroll down the home pages. I agree with OS - the attack was deliberate. Shame on Israel. Limp wristed apologies do not cut it because 34 Americans were killed and 171 were wounded. I think some of you are quick to rush to Israel's defense without being objective, thinking as hyphenated Americans instead of Americans. http://www.ussliberty.org/
B. As for the developing story about the mole in the Pentagon-what difference does it make if the news was first leaked to the Washington Post or CBS? Consider that the allegation might be true instead of automatically dismissing the messengers on the shop worn excuses: it's "anti-semetic" or "MSM smearing of GWB." Ye old Jewish victim card is old and tired.
Why should anyone get a free pass from criticism if it's deserving because of his/her religion? The alleged mole's name is Larry Franklin-how would anyone connect that to a Jewish name? Similarly Doug Feith-who would know to target these 2 people for being Jewish if 99% of people in the USA, myself included, would not be able to relate the Jewish faith to these names?
This ongoing paranoia about victimization due to Jewish religion is just that - paranoia.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 15:12 Comments ||
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#64
The Jews have no margin for error. None. One major intelligence foul up and they're toast. The day the Iranians get close to nuclear capability the Israelis have to know it, or they become victims of nuclear black mail. If I were them, I'd spy on us, too, for the express purpose of keeping up with what we know about the Iranians. We probably would tell them anyway, but they can't afford to take the slightest chance. 3 million Jews. 150 millions Arabs. Never again.
#67
I think some of you are quick to rush to Israel's defense without being objective, thinking as hyphenated Americans instead of Americans.
Shove it up your ass sideways, rex. You read a couple of slanted sites, then lash out with the old "dual loyalty" crap. First you go on and on about how those who disagree with you aren't "real conservatives" and now you're saying they're not "real Americans".
Friendly fire, bad identification, and mis-communication happen in all wars. That's a thousand times more likely than a purposeful attack on the Liberty, no matter how much you want to believe the opposite.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/28/2004 16:34 Comments ||
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#68
The dual loyalty issue is not crap. You can't serve 2 masters.
#69
as a Catholic, I say you're wrong. I'm American first, Catholic second (ohhh the POPE!), and defender of Israel somewhere after that. We used to have judgements of the relative morality of cultures, and I still do. Islamic culture is a 7th century sinktrap, with no future without reform born of honest introspection. Israel's culture does very nicely, thank you, Rex, in a hostile environment. They're the only democracy in the ME (pending Iraq's reform) - you play at semantics all you want, but don't EVER question my patriotism to America - I'll hunt your stupid ass down....Noogies like you've never received.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 17:10 Comments ||
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#70
Good Heavens! Papists live in RantBurg?
18933 Callsub Swoon
#71
Loyalty to the state of Israel is not dual. It's being loyal to yourself. We as a country have chosen to protect the existance of Israel against all those trying to destroy it. Someone in this gov't passing on informationn to Israel to ensure it's survival protects both Israel and our good name at the same time.
#72
If true, I say never let them fly on the shuttle ever again. Fair enough?
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/28/2004 18:43 Comments ||
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#73
The dual loyalty issue is not crap. You can't serve 2 masters.
It is crap, because the assumption is that the person has two masters, solely on the basis of their religion.
And, hell, rex was making the assumption dual loyalty solely on the basis of people's opinions about the goddamned Liberty! Pardon my French, but that's the biggest piece of crap in the universe of crap.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/28/2004 18:51 Comments ||
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#76
A. It is crap, because the assumption is that the person has two masters, solely on the basis of their religion. And, hell, rex was making the assumption dual loyalty solely on the basis of people's opinions about the goddamned Liberty! Pardon my French, but that's the biggest piece of crap in the universe of crap.
Maybe you need to read earlier comments of posters on this thread who immediately jumped to the defense of Israel after OldSpook and Pete Stanley brought up the Liberty incident. The knee jerk defenders of Israel had only snide put downs and religious gibberish as their rebuttals. The defenders were certainly not thinking like Americans whose loyalties should be with America first. Call these people Jewish-Americans, Republican-Americans, holy roller Christian-Americans, whatever, but they certainly are not approaching a legitimate controversy as Americans looking for justice and closure for Liberty survivors and their families.
Read the interchange in the following posts:
8,18,19,21,27,29,30,31,32,33,34
B. You read a couple of slanted sites, then lash out with the old "dual loyalty" crap
What are you blathering about? I posted 2 sites that were developed by actual bonafide Americans who were Libery survivors. They were there. Neither you nor jen nor ZF were there. Their sites are a heck of a lot more legitimate to read than your glib conclusions "oh it's just the fog of war" or "I know Israel is really sorry" or "that's been debunked countless times."
C. And, hell, rex was making the assumption dual loyalty solely on the basis of people's opinions about the goddamned Liberty!
As for dual religious-nationality loyalties as it applies to the Liberty Incident, the poster who specifically referred to this concept was not me. It was Anonymous6193, who happens to be of Jewish background: #33 Jen You can be sure of my understanding of the Torah. I came to Christ from Judaism. Just because the bible tells us that the Israelites are G_D'S choosen ones does not mean the current goverment or even the current people of Israel are those people. I can also love them and not approve of them or their actions at times. I am a US citizen, my family came here 4 generations ago from Germany. Israel killed my fellow countrymen. I owe no loyalty to Isreal. They can apologise to hell and back It doesn't mean I have to forgive them. They helped hide it and cover up LBJs lies. With the billions in aid and direct grants paid by us with money borrowed from our grand kids they can quit spying on us and putting moles in our government. As far as the Liberty goes they should put on burlap and ashes everyday for a few years, throw dirt in the air and wail. Put it on TV every day. Then I'll buy their apology. I remain convinced it was an intentional attack. An attack they have yet to atone for.
#35 Jen G_D will reward me for being faithful to him and nothing else. If you can find the United States of America anywhere in your bible besides the copyrights and publishing info you have a different bible than I do. The U.S. does not play into bible prophecy. I didn't say Israel is not an important partner. But they are not our only one. They sure as hell don't pull their own weight. The U.K. and Canada are much more important to us. The U.K. and Canada don't often cause us more trouble than they are worth or get caught spying on us.
D. First you go on and on about how those who disagree with you aren't "real conservatives"
Nice try to "re-invent" what I posted a few days ago. No cigar. And btw, speak for yourself and don't lie about what I said or didn't say. Figuring out what you mean is enough of a task for you. Don't overtax yourself.
Neocons are not true conservatives and Irving Kristol said it himself. If you are still in denial about his words, don't blame me. Send an email to I. Kristol and chew him out for writing such blasphemy in the Weekly Standard.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 20:34 Comments ||
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#77
I serve God first. And I also render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
Fortunately, my country has not yet done anything that has made foced me to irrevoacably choose to spurn it due to my faith. If I were faced with that choice, I do not know what I would do, possibly do nothing at all. I would feel like Abraham asked to sacrifice Isaac - torn to my core. It would destroy me - I would sooner die than disappoint my God or my Nation. I trust in God not to put me to that test.
And that's where I stand - true conservative, going back to God and Man at Yale.
#78
Actually, Anon6193, Michael Evans has just written a whole book about how the Bible does mention the USA in its prophecies called "The American Prophecies."
It's the #2 bestseller at Amazon right after "Unfit for Command."
These prophecies are as much of a stretch as Nostradamus' are, in my opinion. Loose wording, inaccurate translations, and tons of jumping to conclusions not supported by the words.
Don't drag religion into this. It has no bearing on the possible spy case. So lets nip that in the bud right now.
Israel spies upon the US because they do not ultimately trust anyone other than themselves to act in the best interests of Israel.
The US shoud be realistic about this and realize there are times when Israel will act counter to the US's best interestest. And be vigilant for spies of all stripes.
A spy is a spy regardless of their employer. And they should all be treated the same: if they have disclosed material that could do great damage to the US or its intelligence sources & methods, then they should meet the maximum penalty up to and including the death penalty if competently applied and warranted.
#80
Don't drag religion into this. It has no bearing on the possible spy case...A spy is a spy regardless of their employer. And they should all be treated the same:
Hear, hear, Old Spook.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 22:38 Comments ||
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#81
Uh, OS, I wasn't dragging religion into this (although it's inevitable in our new Crusade against the Musselmen)--I was replying to Anon6193 as I said.
*Sigh*
What you believe about what the Bible says about the End Times is your own affair and between you and your God.
And rex doesn't want his Jew-hatred to be exposed yet again here at RB.
#83
Fuck the Jews, fuck the Isrealis, fuck the Arabs, fuck the Islamists!
If it was up to me, I'd exterminate the whole lot. These fuckers have been fighting and squabling for 1300 years.
I say, kill all of them, now! And let their respective dieties sort it out.
If the Western world can't abide by the insanity that the Izzies put out, why the FUCK should we care about 5 Million jews on a worthless piece of shit strip of land with no oil???
Kill every one of them, Jew, Arab...etc. et al!
We have been expending American lives and American treasure for these fuckers for TOO long.
Trash the place and and call it DONE!
I do not consider 1 Arab, or one Isreali life to to be worth even 10,000 American lives. This conflict has been festering for centuries!
#84
And rex doesn't want his Jew-hatred to be exposed yet again here at RB.
Prove that serious allegation, Jen, by finding any posts I made that showed "Jew hatred" or apologize to me for lying about me.
Go ahead, you find anything I said that demonstrates hatred for Jews - and don't slouch back with your re-invention of my posts or a Jenitized summary of my posts.
You are an unstable person, Jen, and I'm not going to be your whipping boy. Find those posts or apologize to me.
Posted by: rex ||
08/28/2004 23:05 Comments ||
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#85
rex:
Jen has shown herself over and over to be a stupid WWJD spewing cunt for some time.
When I read some of her crap I want to wretch!
A typical Jen post: Sunshine...blah, blah, blah.
Darkness: blah, blah, blah!
#87
Fred, I don't mean to complain, but CiT's remarks are really quite abusive and offensive and I'd like for them to be deleted as troll droppings, please.
Simon Mann, the leader of the failed Equatorial Guinea coup attempt that led to the arrest of Sir Mark Thatcher, was last night facing up to 10 years in jail after being found guilty of attempting to possess dangerous weapons by a court in Zimbabwe.
The Old Etonian and former SAS officer, who was arrested on the tarmac at Harare airport in March along with a plane full of mercenaries while waiting for a delivery of weapons, will be sentenced next month. The latest twist in the saga comes at the end of an extraordinary week in which the attempted coup in a forgotten but oil rich corner of West Africa has sucked in several establishment figures and a rightwing coterie of businessmen, including Sir Mark, oil millionaire Ely Calil and Lord Archer.
A magistrate sitting at a makeshift courthouse in the Harare maximum security Chikurubi prison, found 66 of the mercenaries, all travelling on South African passports, not guilty of the weapons offences. Charges had already been dropped against another three. Most of the men held in Zimbabwe had already pleaded guilty last month to lesser charges of violating Zimbabwe's immigration and civil aviation laws, carrying a maximum penalty of two years in jail and a fine.
Prosecutors said Equatorial Guinea's Spanish-based opposition leader, Severo Moto, offered the group $1.8m and oil rights to overthrow President Teodoro Obiang Nguema.
Cheap at twice the price.
Mann admitted trying to order assault rifles, grenades, anti-tank rocket launchers and other weapons from Zimbabwe Defence Industries, but magistrate Mishrod Guvamombe said prosecutors failed to prove their case against the 64 other men arrested when their ageing Boeing 727 landed at Harare International Airport on March 7, and two already in Zimbabwe with Mann at the time. He also acquitted Mann of an additional charge of taking possession of the weapons. The men, including Mann, maintain they were en route to jobs protecting a mining operation in wartorn eastern Congo.
Fifteen other suspected mercenaries, including South African businessman Nick du Toit who has admitted to giving logistical support to the coup attempt, are on trial in Equatorial Guinea, Africa's third-largest oil producer. They face the death penalty if convicted.
Yesterday Sir Mark, who denies any involvement in the coup attempt, remained under house arrest at his home in Constantia, the upmarket Cape Town suburb where Mann also has a home. The South African government said yesterday it was considering a request from Equatorial Guinea for investigators to be allowed to travel to Cape Town to interview Sir Mark over the coup attempt. However there has been no request for extradition, something that is thought highly unlikely because the countries have no extradition treaty and because Equatorial Guinea practises the death penalty.
His spokesman in London, Lord Bell, said he been dragged into the Equatorial Guinea affair because of "guilt by association". "Mark Thatcher and Simon Mann were friends, nobody has ever denied that," he said. "But it doesn't follow that because you are friends with someone you are necessarily involved in what they are doing."
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/28/2004 12:35:20 AM ||
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Link ||
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Cops Arrest Bicycle Protestors Thousands Participated In Manhattan Bike Ride
Aug 27, 2004 10:50 pm US/Eastern
NEW YORK (AP) Nearly 250 bicyclists were arrested during a mass protest that passed Madison Square Garden Friday night, the first major police crackdown on demonstrators just days before a wave of activists were expected to descend for the Republican National Convention.
The cyclists had snaked through Manhattan for the monthly Critical Mass ride. But what was usually a crowd of hundreds swelled to thousands Friday, with organizers saying the excursion drew a horde of bikers who wanted to protest the convention.
NYPD Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne said the cyclists had caused "massive disruptions" and endangered motorists trying to drive through the city. He said about 250 cyclists had been arrested, including one for throwing a beer can at an officer. The officer was uninjured.
"We gave them every opportunity to comply with the law," Browne said. "Those who didn't were arrested." ...more...
What we have here is a serious IQ deficit - Strother Martin (not).
Posted by: .com ||
08/28/2004 12:54:51 AM ||
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Link ||
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#1
All yours bikes are belong to us.
The NYPD is ready. Driving home this evening on the West Side Highway, I saw the Fuji blimp flying fairly low over the Hudson River. When it was just overhead I got a close look at the blimp and it said "NYPD" in large letters below the Fuji logo.
Posted by: tibor ||
08/28/2004 1:48 Comments ||
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#2
The NYPD mounted police should be equipped with fur hats and sabers, so they can ride down the blackshirt masses Cossack-style.
Something very like this actually happened in LA during some anti-globalization riots a couple of years ago. A pack of masked anarchists was screaming and capering and throwing rocks like the baboons they are, when an LA mounted patrol simply charged them at full gallop. The assembled mumia-cong fled in all directions, leaving evian bottles, backpacks, and even birkenstocks abandoned on the ground.
#5
first maiming of a horse (marbles, etc.) should be televised long and widespread. Any little sympathy these asshats could've garnered will be lost, and the crackdown will begin in earnest...
batons ready!
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/28/2004 7:43 Comments ||
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#6
We still haven't battle tested the MOAB yet, have we?
Posted by: Dar ||
08/28/2004 8:19 Comments ||
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#7
Yo! Idiots! The Doo-Dah parade is in Pasadena, California in December. . .. .
#13
...argued with motorists during the Friday night ride,
Oh, good. Piss off the commuters on their rides home. That'll win lot's of local support.
But they ride bicycles and are anti-Republican, so they know soooooooooooo much more then me...
#14
Dont forget horses have some very good 'defenses' themselves. Getting emergency (but much needed IMO) brain surgery by the hoof of an enraged horse probably isn't very fun.
Then of course there is the fully trained and armed NYC police officer who would not take it kindly either.
Frank, somehow I dont think the MSM would broadcast a LLL maining a horse -- they will most likely protect the mainer and blame the police.
#21
Unfortunately, Police horses are very well trained and extremely unlikely to kick someone. Probably won't bite, either. A horse bite is a very wicked bite.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/28/2004 16:22 Comments ||
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#22
That should be, "Police horses are very well trained and , unfortunately in this case, are unlikely to kick". Dopey me. Must be the tequila.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/28/2004 16:24 Comments ||
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#23
"Those who work for peace" have sent their new spokesman, I see.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
