Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said six Australians were unaccounted for so far but he expected that number to change. Mr Downer said three people were missing in Phuket - including a 16-year-old Down syndrome boy from Melbourne - two in Indonesia, and one in Sri Lanka. Western Australian state MP John Hyde, staying in Phuket, said the main tourist strip was a scene of "absolute desolation" after it was hit by two tsunami waves. "At 10am (local time) all of a sudden, just out of nowhere, a massive wall of water came through," Mr Hyde told Channel 7. "There are cars upturned and floating, there's debris, there are beach chairs and beach umbrellas, bits of restaurants are starting to float by," he said. "There are cars jammed inside buildings - just the force of it when it hit that initial beachfront must have been amazing to have been able to wedge cars into coconut trees. "Then we started to see people injured struggling up from the beach, orange-clad monks carrying people."
PAUL GIARDINA, 16, from Melbourne, is among those missing after becaming separated from his parents, Joseph and Ivana Giardina, when a tidal wave hit as they dined in a Phuket hotel restaurant. There are grave fears for the boy, who suffers Down Syndrome. The family has appealed to the Australian government to do more to find Paul, who would have trouble telling anyone his name.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/26/2004 10:17:02 PM ||
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Governments and humanitarian organisations around the world have scrambled to offer aid and technical help after the devastating quake and tidal waves that killed thousands of people in southern Asia. With the death toll over 11,500 and rising, authorities offered immediate help in terms of food, shelter and medicines, as well as longer-term aid once the situation stabilises. The quake, the most powerful for 40 years and measuring 8.9 on the Richter scale, struck earlier on Sunday in the Indian Ocean off the Indonesian island of Sumatra. It unleashed a series of deadly tsunamis that hit Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Indonesia, the Maldives, Burma and Malaysia and the East African coast.
Echoing pleas by Asian leaders, Pope John Paul II urged the international community to rush aid to the affected populations. Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf called for "swift and concerted" international efforts, and the foreign ministry said it would send a consignment of relief goods comprising tents, medicines and water to Sri Lanka, one of the worst hit countries. The European Commission said it was providing immediate emergency aid of three million euros (about $A5.3 million) for victims to meet "initial vital needs," and that more substantial aid would be provided later. "The needs are enormous," European Union development and humanitarian aid commissioner Louis Michel said, adding that the aid would include "water supplies, shelter, food and blankets" and, in the longer term, health care.
The United States also indicated it was ready to send assistance. "On behalf of the American people, the President expresses his sincere condolences for the terrible loss of life and suffering caused by the earthquake and subsequent tsunamis in the region of the Bay of Bengal," the White House said in a statement. "The United States stands ready to offer all appropriate assistance to those nations most affected including Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Thailand, and Indonesia, as well as the other countries impacted," the statement added.
In Geneva, the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies appealed for 7.5 million Swiss francs (about $A8.5 million) for "immediate support" to an estimated 500,000 survivors. Ireland offered 1 million euros (about $A1.75 million) in aid, and Kuwait a like amount in US dollars, while Turkey said it had asked its missions in the affected countries to offer whatever help was necessary. Britain extended offers of "practical assistance", dispatched two experts to join a United Nations crisis assessment team, and pledged $100,000 to help fund a World Health Organisation crisis response team. "For all the huge advances in the control of our lives through science and technology ,an earthquake on this scale is truly humbling as well as profoundly tragic for everyone involved," Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said.
France said it would send a team of civil emergency experts to the Sri Lankan capital Colombo to help with providing clean water, medical attention and health procedures. Germany said it would send a fact-finding team to Sri Lanka to see what was needed for communications and water supply systems. Greece said one of its military C-130 cargo planes would leave late on Sunday for India and Sri Lanka with 11 tons of medical supplies and volunteers from three non-governmental organisations. In Russia, the emergency situations ministry said two Il-76 transport aircraft would leave on Monday with a helicopter, tents and other equipment, as well as staff, to help victims in Sri Lanka.
In the region itself, New Delhi dispatched warships and aircraft carrying medicine and food to its southern coasts and to neighbouring Sri Lanka. India, where at least 2,400 people were killed, also offered assistance to other nations hit by tsunamis triggered by a giant earthquake off Indonesia. Five Indian warships steamed across the Palk Straits towards Sri Lanka, defence officials told AFP. Three air force cargo planes loaded with emergency supplies flew to India's stricken Andaman and Nicobar islands in the Bay of Bengal, they said. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh himself directed the military to launch relief measures in four coastal Indian states flooded by tsunamis. The defence ministry said it was deploying naval ships, heavy-lift helicopters and aircraft to speed up rescue operations.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/26/2004 8:25:22 PM ||
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#1
If I recall correctly, one of the best inexpensive water filters is sari fabric, so hopefully India will include some in its shipments... It is good to know that help is already flowing to the striken area, and not just from the usual suspects.
I shall sleep better for the knowing. Thank you, Worldsaver.
This report was taken not long after the earthquake struck - the death toll now is in the thousands, in many countries...
A huge earthquake has hit southern Asia, setting off a tsunami that drowned hundreds in Sri Lanka and India, sent Indonesians rushing to high ground and washed away bathers on the Thai tourist island of Phuket. The earthquake of magnitude 8.9 as measured by the US Geological Survey first struck at 7:59am local time off the coast of the northern Indonesian island of Sumatra and swung north with multiple tremors into the Andaman islands in the Indian Ocean. The US Geological Survey says it is the fifth biggest earthquake since 1900.
A wall of water up to 10 metres high set off by the tremor swept into Indonesia, over the coast of Sri Lanka and India and along the southern Thai tourist island of Phuket, leaving at least 650 people feared dead, officials said. The earthquake was the world's biggest since 1965, said Julie Martinez, geophysicist for the US Geological Survey. "It is multiple earthquakes along the same faultline," she said.
Sri Lanka
The worst-hit area appeared to be the tourist region of Sri Lanka's south and east and the chairman of the John Keells hotel chain said five of his hotels had been badly flooded. At least 500 were feared dead in Sri Lanka, the National Disaster Management Centre said. "According to the information we have so far, 500 people have been killed and the death toll is going to be high - it will likely be over 1,000," said N D Hettiarachchi, director of the centre. The country's president has declared a national disaster. "The Army and the Navy have sent rescue teams, we have deployed over four choppers and half the Navy's eastern fleet to look for survivors," said military spokesman Brigadier Daya Ratnayake. An official in eastern Trincomalee said 3,000 people had been displaced and six villages destroyed.
Thailand
In Phuket at least one person was killed, four were missing and 100 injured when the wave, 5 to 10 metres high, crashed onto beaches lined with luxury hotels at the peak of the tourist season. "Nothing like this has ever happened in our country before," said Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. "There was a very large ocean wave after the earthquake and about 100 people were injured," Suparerk Tansriratanawong, director general of Thailand's Meteorological Department, told Reuters. More than 10 people were killed and 100 injured or missing in the southern Thai province of Phang Nga. The Prime Minister called for the evacuation of areas hit by a tsunami wave in three southern provinces, including Phuket. "I have ordered that rescue officials move people out of the risk area," Mr Thaksin told reporters. Officials now say 99 are dead and 1,100 wounded in southern Thailand.
India
Along the southern Indian coast, as many as 74 people were killed and many injured by a tsunami there, hospital and government officials said. Officials said 400 fishermen were missing in the south. "Thirty-four are dead and 14 are admitted in hospital," said an official at the Government Royapettah Hospital in Chennai, formerly known as Madras and the capital of Tamil Nadu state. Dozens more were dead in Prakasam district in southern Andhra Pradesh and in Machalipatnam district, taking the total death toll in the state to 40, officials said. Two people died and some 100 people were hurt in the capital of India's Andaman islands when tidal waves hit, the state's chief secretary said.
Maldives
The wave swept into the low-lying Maldive islands whose coral atolls are a magnet for tourists, flooding two-thirds of the capital Male, said chief government spokesman Dr Ahmed Shaheed. "The damage is considerable. The island is only about three feet above sea level and a wave of water four feet high swept over us," he said. "It is a very bad situation. It is terrible. We have no communications with some of the outlying atolls. At this stage we fear the worst. We are trying to send boats to assess the damage, but our resources are stretched to the limit."
Indonesia
As many as 72 people were killed and 79 injured on in Indonesia's Aceh province on northern Sumatra island, local government and hospital officials said. Mustofa Gelanggang, the head of Aceh's northern Bireuen district, said 49 bodies had been recovered along the region's northern coastline after tidal waves triggered by the quake swallowed entire villages. Sadli, a paramedic at the Cut Mutia hospital in the town of Lhokseumawe told Metro TV that a total of 23 bodies had been recieved there while 79 people were being treated for injury and trauma. "They were mostly drowned by the waves," Bireuen regency mayor Mustofa said by telephone, adding that hundreds of houses had been swept away. Indonesia's geophysics and meteorology office put the epicentre of the earthquake at 149 km off the southern coast of the island and said the earthquake measured 6.8 on the open-ended Richter scale.
"There was no warning and suddenly the sea water just hit the city," said Bustami, a resident of the Aceh coastal town of Lhokseumawe. "In some parts the water was up to a chest level. "People are quite panicked now, some of us are walking by foot and others are on military trucks going to higher ground." Residents said waves as high as five metres struck the northern coast, killing at least nine, causing widespread damage and sending thousands fleeing in panic. Residents said buildings collapsed and people fled their houses.
In other developments:
Two people died and some 100 people were hurt Sunday in the capital of India's Andaman islands when tidal waves hit after a huge earthquake in nearby Indonesia, the state's chief secretary said.
Wheres my surfboard ??? Reports are now coming in that water has leaked into a nuclear reactor in Madrass.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/26/2004 4:27:36 AM ||
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One of the world's most powerful earthquakes in years rocked northern Indonesia on Sunday and launched tidal waves that swamped villages and seaside resorts across Asia, killing more than 550 people in five countries. Some 300 were reported killed in Sri Lanka, 136 in India, 94 in Indonesia, 20 in Thailand and seven in Malaysia. Hundreds were reported missing, and the death toll was expected to rise. The U.S. Geological Survey said a magnitude 8.9 quake - one capable of massive damage - struck off the coast of the Indonesian island of Sumatra at 8 a.m. Sunday. The USGS earlier said the quake was magnitude-8.5.
Soon after it hit, immense waves or tsunamis crashed into several countries, and aftershocks in the magnitude-7 range were seen, the USGS said, raising the possibility of a catastrophic regional death toll. Waves crashed into coastal villages over a wide area of Sri Lanka - some 1,000 miles west of the quake's epicenter - killing some 300 people and displacing thousands of others, said military spokesman Brig. Daya Ratnayake. Parts of the northeastern districts of Muttur and Trincomalee were inundated by waves as high as 20 feet, said D. Rodrigo, a Muttur district official. "The police station in Muttur is under water and the area is badly affected," police spokesman Rienzie Perera said. "It is a very tragic situation." He said over 100,000 people have been affected in Sri Lanka.
At least 136 people were killed in India, and hundreds of fishermen were missing at sea, officials said. The biggest toll was reported from Madras, the capital of Tamil Nadu state, whose beaches turned into virtual open mortuaries with bodies of people caught in the tidal wave being washed ashore. At least 100 bodies were found on various beaches in Madras, said R. Natraj, the city police chief. Don Blakeman, an earthquake analyst with the USGS, said large tidal waves frequently follow quakes like the one seen in Indonesia, noting that a powerful quake in Alaska four decades ago caused waves that killed people as far away as Japan. He told The Associated Press that aftershocks are another concern. "We do expect large aftershocks after a large earthquake like this."
At least 94 people were killed in Indonesia's Aceh province, hospital and local officials said. Bireun district head Mustofa Glanggang told The Associated Press that 50 people were killed in Bireun district, and 35 bodies were brought to Cut Meutia Hospital in the northern city of Lhokseumawe, an official there said. Nine others were killed in the provincial capital Banda Aceh, witnesses told a local radio station. Communications were down in several coastal towns facing the epicenter of the undersea quake off the western coast of Aceh, raising fears of widespread and as yet unreported damage in the region. "The ground was shaking for a long time," resident Yayan Zamzani told Jakarta's el-Shinta radio station. "It must be the strongest earthquake in the last 15 years."
Twenty people died and many were missing in popular southern Thailand resorts, said Sorajak Chusaeng, of the Narenthorn Center of the Public Health Ministry. The center also reported that people were swept away in Phuket by a tsunami with waves surging as high as 16 feet. The Bangladesh Meteorological Department said a powerful earthquake jolted a wide area of that country early Sunday, but there were no immediate reports of casualties or damage. The quake was reported to be a magnitude 7.3. Police in Malaysia said seven people were killed in tidal waves.
Indonesia, a country of 17,000 islands, is prone to seismic upheaval because of its location on the margins of tectonic plates that make up the so-called the "Ring of Fire" around the Pacific Ocean basin. In Colombo, the Seismological Department said that they believe the tidal waves in Sri Lanka were caused by earthquakes earlier Sunday in the Southeast Asia. "We are not 100 percent sure, but this is our initial finding," S. Premalal, a Seismological Department officer said. The Indonesian quake struck just three days after an 8.1 quake struck the ocean floor between Australia and Antarctica, causing buildings to shake hundreds of miles away but no serious damage or injury. Quakes reaching a magnitude 8 are very rare. A quake registering magnitude 8 rocked Japan's northern island of Hokkaido on Sept. 25, 2003, injuring nearly 600 people. An 8.4 magnitude tremor that stuck off the coast of Peru on June 23, 2001, killed 74.
Posted by: .com ||
12/26/2004 3:14:40 AM ||
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#2
Theres a lot more then that - Theres thousands missing in over 5 countries. Bangladesh just got smashed by a earthquake & now more Tsunami's are on the way.
In one country theres over 200 tourists who were out on a scuba diving trip that are missing.
This death toll is going to keep climbing and span over lots of countries.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/26/2004 6:42 Comments ||
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#8
And not to be cynical but all of these counrties that bitch and moan about Uncle Sam will be crying for help from guess who
I'll out-cynic you all.
Maybe the first person off the plane needs to be a policy wonk wanting some ink on an anti-terrorism pact. If these countries want our assistance, it's time for them to earn it. Don't think I'm not interested in helping any of them. I'm just fed up with the "thanks for all the foreign aid, you running Yankee dogs" mentality.
#10
BaR, I've posted at greater length about this over in the "screamer" headline thread. I'd be glad to hear your own thoughts regarding this.
No better opportunity is going to arise for America to begin obtaining a genuine quid pro quo for all the monetary and material foreign aid we shovel overseas each year.
So many of these countries hate us already. What possible harm can it do to finally wring some functional concessions out of these reluctant "allies" in our fight against terrorism?
#12
If this were an act of terrorism, possibly I could agree that our aid be less than forthcoming. Cause meet Effect. But an earthquake? A tidal wave?
Why become the shriveled souls the Anti-American press tells everyone we are, when living happy, generous lives is so much more fun? My prayers go out to both the victims and their rescuers and as soon as I can find a reputable coordinator, my charity will go out too.
India, Thailand, Sri Lanka, the Maldives?
The only country whose people really hate America is Indonesia, and there the government is about as friendly with the US as they can be without being accused by their opponents of being slaves to the west, American puppets etc.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/26/2004 18:32 Comments ||
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#14
The only country whose people really hate America is Indonesia
This is untrue. Indonesia is hardly anti-American. You may have some Indonesian people who hate the US, and some who just dislike the US. **//Gosh golly, that sounds like Berkley or Boston //** Most Indonesians are busy with their own lives and neither hate nor love the US. A great number of Indonesians really look up to and admire the US. Many more Indonesians like or love the US than hate it.
This is a good time to show the people of the world what we Americans are made of and give without expecting anything in return. The sentiment of compassion is OUR Judeo-Christian heritage.
Zenster writes, So many of these countries hate us already. What possible harm can it do to finally wring some functional concessions out of these reluctant "allies" in our fight against terrorism?GREAT HARM, because we are not opportunists. Our values and ideals are not self-serving. To try to advance our cause by âwringing concessionsâ out of people who are suffering the effects of a natural disaster is SICK and DISGUSTING, and does a disservice to our national heritage.
Zenster, overkill is not the answer. Your gung ho, "death to all Muslims" solutions consistently lack the temper of realism. Don't give up on Muslims, in general. They, too, bleed and die and hope daily for a better life. Places where Islamo-fascist tyranny rules, like Palestine (NOT Indonesia), simply prove that the gentrification of entitlement, without personal responsibility and true democratic voice, always leads to thuggery. If we follow the policies of President Bush, there is much reason to hope millions more can be set free to pursue life, liberty and happiness. We have the sword for the warring, and our right hand of friendship for the peaceful.
#16
Why become the shriveled souls the Anti-American press tells everyone we are, when living happy, generous lives is so much more fun?
Maybe because I want to live. There is nothing "shriveled" about ensuring that we do not finance the recovery of our enemies. For America to continue its incredible largess without manifestly linking our hard-earned dollar contributions to some sort of authentic return in political capital is simply insane.
While this disaster was in no way an act of terrorism, the massive cost in human life does have connections to the spineless attitudes many Southeast Asian governments show towards Islamism.
I doubt anyone here is going to argue that the region is known for its superb disaster preparedness, despite being centered upon the seismically active "rim of fire." Japan, Taiwan and, perhaps, Korea are the only nations that spring to mind in terms of such civil emergency measures.
India, Thailand, Sri Lanka, the Maldives?
Let's take India. While reasonably cooperative with respect to anti-terrorism, anti-Christian violence is rising and corruption is rampant nation-wide. Try to remember that Indian governmental corruption often manifests as an anti-Muslim bias. How does that help fighting terrorism?
Thailand has been going through the motions but still has huge strides to make in quelling internal dissent and their own corruption problems.
See what they have to say about these "friendly" countries.
Law enforcement authorities are perceived to be the most corrupt public institutions in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Nepal, and SriLanka
"Across South Asia, public spending on basic services such as drinking water, education, health and law enforcement represents a significant allocation of scarce resources," said Gopakumar Krishnan, Asia Programme Manager at the TI-Secretariat. "The survey results show that even when public services are meant to be freely available, bribes and delays keep many from receiving them, and it is most often the poorest in society that suffer most."
Let's take a look at Transparency International's corruption indicators index (on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being best):
Malaysia 5,0 (4.5 - 5.6)
Thailand 3,6 (3.3 - 3.9)
Sri Lanka 3,5 (3.1 - 3.9)
India 2,8 (2.6 - 3.0)
Palestinian Authority 2,5 (2.0 - 2.7) [just for reference]
Indonesia 2,0 (1.7 - 2.2)
Vietnam 2,6 (2.3 - 2.9)
Philippines 2,6 - (2.4 - 2.9)
Pakistan 2,1 - (1.6 - 2.6) [because it is mentioned in the above report]
Myanmar 1,7 (1.5 - 2.0)
Bangladesh 1,5 (1.1 - 1.9)
These appear to be among some of the most corrupt nations on earth. Where corruption thrives, so does incitement to terrorism.
One more time, we must tie future disaster relief and economic aid in general to measurable improvements in the quality of life for those country's citizens. Governments who are unable to properly distribute such unearned wealth are, perforce, our enemies.
Take a close look at the corruption index listing and then correlate exactly where all the terrorists come from. Do I need to assemble that chart for you too?
#17
Zenster, overkill is not the answer. Your gung ho, "death to all Muslims" solutions consistently lack the temper of realism.
Nowhere, ever, do I advocate "death to all Muslims." Talk to .com about that attitude, but DO NOT try and pin it on me. Either that, or start supplying some cites to back up your allegations.
I want immediate death for all violent jihadists. Benevolent Muslims are not even on my list. GET A CLUE.
#18
This is a good time to show the people of the world what we Americans are made of and give without expecting anything in return. The sentiment of compassion is OUR Judeo-Christian heritage.
We've been doing that already. Look at Bosnia - we got involved there to save Muslims from being whacked en masse (something I didn't particularly support, for obvious reasons), and what thanks do we get? In Iran, we offered up assistance when they had that earthquake in Bam. And what do we have to show for it now?
It's nice to be charitable, but at some point in time after having been taken advantage of repeatedly, seeking something in return for aid isn't an unreasonable expectation. The alternative would be being played for suckers. Again.
File under Signs & Portents:
An 8.5-magnitude earthquake that may rank among the 10 strongest in the past century struck the Indonesian island of Sumatra, triggering aftershocks and giant tidal waves across India, Sri Lanka and Thailand. ``We don't have confirmation of any casualties yet,'' said Fauzi, an official at the Geology and Meteorology Office in Jakarta who goes by one name only. He said the earthquake created txunami waves as high as 5 meters (17 feet) along the north coast of Aceh province, knocking out at least one bridge. Six aftershocks of magnitude between 5.8 and 6.1 struck in the Bay of Bengal between the west coast of Thailand and India's east coast, the U.S. Geological Survey reported on its Web page. Nine Sumatrans died in flash floods triggered by the earthquake, Reuters reported, citing El Shinta radio in Jakarta, Tsunami waves killed at least 160 people in Sri Lanka and swept at least four foreign tourists out to sea at the popular Thai resort of Phuket, Agence France-Presse reported. ``The big waves in the Bay of Bengal are a result of the earthquake in Sumatra,'' A.K. Shukla, head of the Indian Meteorological Department, said in a phone interview from New Delhi. ``We expect the big waves to lash Chennai and parts of Tamil Nadu for the next two days.'' The Indonesia earthquake, which struck about 7 a.m. local time, was a magnitude 8.5 earthquake, centered offshore about 1,605 kilometers northwest of the capital Jakarta at a depth of 10 kilometers, the U.S. Geological Survey said in a preliminary report on the Web site. There were no immediate reports of damage to oil facilities in Indonesia, Southeast Asia's biggest oil producer. ``As long as you don't see any damage to the facilities, especially the oil and gas pipelines, I don't see the impact as being significant,'' said Song Seng Wun, regional economist with G.K. Goh Holdings Ltd. in Singapore.
#3
Ok, who's been playing with the SeismotronHAARP projector Zionist earthquake machine again?
(mutters to self) I see I'm going to have to change all the passwords again, dammit!
Posted by: N Guard ||
12/26/2004 7:34 Comments ||
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#4
Maybe Allan's not happy with you Moose Limbs?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/26/2004 9:05 Comments ||
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#5
Up lens 3.234 degrees, azumuth unchanged, change the polarity on the Shamit Projector to Sideways, your code is, ACMEFOREVER, shake for effect.
#7
.com,
If you hear anything about Phuket and other southern Thai areas -- especially anything we can do to help, please send me a note! Thanks. I've got e-mail out to friends but I don't expect they are likely to be getting online to surf anytime soon.
Posted by: Kathy K ||
12/26/2004 9:42 Comments ||
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#8
Phukets been hit pretty bad from the news reports i have seen.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/26/2004 9:57 Comments ||
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#9
Fox just reported that 200 bungalows were swept out to sea from Ko Samui (If that's where they made "The Beach") - few specifics but the language being used and the hushed tones indicate horrific loss of life...
Saying 6000 dead and expected to rise much higher.
Kathy - the people I am in contact with are up North in the mountains, Chaing Mai - so this will not have affected them at all. Since it was on the Indian side of the peninsula, nothing in the Bay of Thailand was affected. With 90% of Bangkok less than 3 ft above sea level, well - it would have been horrific.
TS ViceGirl and Lone Ranger are in Bangkok, IIRC - I hope they will share the details they hear.
This is the time of year when Phuket and the island resorts on the Indian side are full of Europeans - and I mean full. I tried to get reservations for the 2003 Christmas period and everything down there had been booked up since September by the Europeans with their group-purchase holiday clubs.
Much worse hit will be Sri Lanka and everything coastal in Southern India, Bangladesh, etc. Given the centers of the quakes, there was nothing to deflect the waves for that entire region. Myanmar, with its totalitarian regime and little news coverage may have been hit very hard, as well. The death toll is going to be staggering, I'm afraid.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/26/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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#15
I'm just letting the articles stack up. The numbers keep rising...
Posted by: Fred ||
12/26/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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#16
7.0+ aftershocks! This will be a tragedy of biblical proportions.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/26/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#17
an 8.9 would take down our best earthquake-engineered structures...truly monstrous
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/26/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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#18
This map is probably the best available for that region. Combined with Sea's link to the USGS you get an excellent picture of what areas are worst hit. Sri Lanka is, unfortunately, square in the middle of the zone for all the quakes.
#20
WSW and nothing in between - you bet it was. The question is the subsurface terrain - is Diego Garcia a steep seamount - or is a flatter seamount with extended shallows offshore. The latter would be very, very bad...
Diego Garcia is part of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) formed in 1965 from territory belonging formerly to Mauritius and the Seychelles. The island is one of 52 in the Chagos Archipelago, which extends over an area of 10,000 square miles. The archipelago is located in the heart of the Indian Ocean, south of India and between Africa and Indonesia. The tropical island is a narrow coral atoll with a land area of about eleven square miles, nearly enclosing a lagoon. Its configuration is that of a "V" drawn by a shaky hand. The island stretches 37 miles from tip to tip, with an opening to the north-northwest. Three small islands dot the mouth of the lagoon which is approximately 13 miles long and up to 6 miles wide. The lagoon is from sixty to one hundred feet deep with numerous coral heads in most areas. Shallow reefs surround the island on the ocean side, as well as in the lagoon. The island's mean height above sea level is 4 feet.
Diego Garcia is the largest of many atolls that form the Chagos Archipelago. The horseshoe- shaped atoll is located seven degrees south of the equator in the North Central Region of the Indian Ocean. It is heavily vegetated, has a land area of 6,720 acres and is 37 miles long, tip- to-tip. The maximum elevation is 22 feet, with an average elevation of four feet above sea level. The enclosed lagoon is approximately seven miles wide and thirteen miles long. The three small islands at the mouth of the lagoon and the shape of the atoll give the impression of a footprint, hence the term âFootprint of Freedomâ.
So we are talking a lagoon
60 to 100 feet deep
shallow reefs -- the slope com was worried about as worst case seems to be true.
average height of 4 feet
1,700 military personnel and 1,500 civilian contractors in normal times (and these are anything but.)
B2s, B52s, P3s KC-135s
Maritime Prepositioning Ship
Squadron Two
All these beg the question.
are our troops and planes and ships alright on Deigo Garcia?
The 4ft above sealevel doesn't leave one feeling too confortable about it.
#26
Here's a map of the region, including the sea floor. It's a map of the world, split into sections, and the section is unfortunately placed for our purposes (scroll down to see other sections, or the whole world). But you can see that the ocean floor rises just east of the Maldives, allowing waves to reach those islands. The situation is not quite so bad for DG, south of the Maldives. I don't know if "not quite so bad" will be good enough.
This page has images of Diego Garcia (second picture down). You can see that a tsunami would be seriously bad news there.
Posted by: Capt America ||
12/26/2004 13:41 Comments ||
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#28
Diego Garcia will be pretty hard hit. It's only 3 or 4 feet above sea level and the tidal wave did damage all the way to the African coast. With any warning, the people should do fine in bomb shelters, but aircraft, hangers, maintence equipment and supplies will take a beating. One mitigating factor is the the wave will have to wash over the eastern arm of the island and the lagoon before reaching the airbase.
Two other concerns are:
1. Did the aircraft make it off the island, especially the bombers.
2. Were the prepositioning ships (2 brigade's worth of equipment?) able to turn their bows into the tidal wave?
Posted by: ed ||
12/26/2004 14:37 Comments ||
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Posted by: ed ||
12/26/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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#30
I'll play my ultra-cynical card over here in this thread too.
Maybe it's time to drop all pretenses and tie any foreign disaster relief to full cooperation with anti-terror efforts. Ruthless? You betcha. Then again, so is the enemy and all those who soft-pedal the Islamist cause.
It's time to get concessions over who's patroling the Malacca Straits. Let's see if Bashir might be available for some stateside interrogation. This is QUID PRO QUO TIME.
I have no problem dumping a few billion American taxpayer dollars onto this natural disaster. But remember, the tremendous loss of life from this quake is also directly linked to the same corrupt governments whose graft and preferential treatment are breeding up the terrorists.
The routine diversion of funds that could have built better civil engineering projects (although that might not have helped too much against an 8.9) and, especially, put in place disaster-relief provisions, medical centers and staff is one of the things that exacerbates Islamist unrest.
If we are going to help these countries rebuild, it had best be on our own terms. Very few of them are providing much more than lipservice in fighting terrorism. It's time to change the pattern of minimal compliance and spark some real enthusiasm.
Through blunt force trauma (i.e., 9-11), America has been forced to begin rebuilding this world in our own image. However ethnocentric it may sound, the US's vision of global democracy beats the living snot out of all the alternatives, especially those that continue to foster terrorism.
This is a golden opportunity to step forward with a helping hand that intentionally pulls all disaster aid recipients towards our side. Cynical? Yup! Machievellian? Bingo! Self-preserving? You got it!
If America is obliged to do all of the heavy lifting, it's time to make the exertion count. Communist China does not have the bandwidth or will to step into the breach and help on the scale needed. All smaller countries cannot possibly make any sort of dent in this human tragedy that America can.
If we're going to play the bleeding heart one more time, it's time to begin charging for our blood donations. We no longer have the luxury of pretending that unaccountable foreign aid spending (even in the form of disaster relief) permits us to assure ourselves that we are fighting the poverty, intolerance and corruption that spawns terrorism.
This time, let's finally attach a realistic price tag to our help.
#31
Looks like Christian hatingpersecuting countries (including large sections of Hindu poplulated India) to me. It's payback time via in quadrapule biblical proportions. I have no sympathy. Where is the sympathy when the Christians are getting their heads cut off in these affected countries? Then these bastards cut their d**ks off and shoves into the mouth of the decaputated head, for display. I have been watching the persecution, helplessly, for years and years, now. Kiss my a**. Everyone of you Christian/Jew hating Mooselimbs can die for all I care.
Diego Garcia is the exception. I pray that our beloved military are able to escape the island.
#32
If this were an act of terrorism, possibly I could agree that our aid be less than forthcoming. Cause meet Effect. But an earthquake? A tidal wave?
Why become the shriveled souls the Anti-American press tells everyone we are, when living happy, generous lives is so much more fun? My prayers go out to both the victims and their rescuers and as soon as I can find a reputable coordinator, my charity will go out too.
And while I also think the world would be much better off with transparent governments and free economies, I don't think people picking up dead bodies of loved ones are in a receptive mood for the PAD lecture.
#34
My sentiments exactly, Adriane. What makes Americans so decent as a people is that (among other things) when someone needs help, we help. Doesn't matter whether you have a turban on your head or not. We must never lose that.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/26/2004 18:11 Comments ||
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#35
Nineteen aftershocks so far, all above 5.0. Two are above 7.0. Source is here. Original quake has been revised up to 9.0 by USGS. That'll shake your martini a bit too much!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/26/2004 18:20 Comments ||
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#36
A 7.0 aftershock??. I used to live in SoCal. A 6.x is pretty bad. I don't think I ever had a 7.0 primary. Northridge was 6.7, which, if I remember My logarithms, was one-third the strength of this "aftershock."
I kinda-sorta agree with Zenster for official US government aid. In particular, any aid that doesn't go directly to individuals, (to the governments or large organizations) should be tied to behavior. I would give food and water and shelter and medicine pretty much openly without requirement.
Private relief should go there unconditionally. In fact, is there a trustworthy group coordinating such relief now? I don't want to go through a leftist America-hating group.
#37
It's payback time via in quadrapule biblical proportions. I have no sympathy.
Why am I not surprised to see Poison Reverse display such Christian charity? "Love your enemies, do good to those that harm you" seems to be yet another Christian teaching that Poison Reverse has retconned out of his personal religion.
#40
EU designed and blessed NGOs would have made earthquakes a thing of the past except the US NEO SENATE refused to confirm the KYOTO treaty by a slim yet delightful margin. Let's vote until we get it right folks. LOL!
#42
Thanks, Steven, I added those to my list of pictures.
I've managed to get a friend over there on chat so I've got some idea of how bad it is, and isn't, outside of the tourist areas, which (needless to say) are all along the coast.
Note to Poison Reverse: FOAD.
Posted by: Kathy K ||
12/26/2004 19:19 Comments ||
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#43
The tsunami has hit Africa now, ferchrissakes. Surely someone should know how Diego Garcia fared.
Anyone know where to look for that info?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 19:56 Comments ||
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#44
Diego Garcia's website is still up (they're posting "Thunder II" conditions high of 86 low of 77.) So who knows? On the good side the reef drops straight down 1/4 mile from shore, on the bad side it's only 4 feet above sea level. From when I was there, I can remember looking UP at the waves outside the reef during storms, while only rain hit the land. I hope they are OK.
Posted by: Dave ||
12/26/2004 20:36 Comments ||
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#45
My sentiments exactly, Adriane. What makes Americans so decent as a people is that (among other things) when someone needs help, we help. Doesn't matter whether you have a turban on your head or not. We must never lose that.
Steve, neither do I argue that we must abandon our fundamental decency. I seek only to ensure that we no longer funnel massive quantities of aid to corrupt governments who will exacerbate terror and minimize civilian relief.
Nowhere have I said that we should not help. It just happens to be time to begin tracking who does and who does not show the least respect for our massive assistance in times of need.
#47
I kinda-sorta agree with Zenster for official US government aid. In particular, any aid that doesn't go directly to individuals, (to the governments or large organizations) should be tied to behavior. I would give food and water and shelter and medicine pretty much openly without requirement.
#48
Doubt there was time in Diego Garcia to get ships underway,or even double up moorings.Good chance some pre-positioned vessels sitting there cold iron are on the beach.
I have looked just about everywhere for about an hour now. I even tried online shortwave broadcast. I can't get any latest info on Diego Garcia. I could only find what Dave has already found.
#50
Most of the aftershocks have been in the area of the Andaman and Nicobar islands between Indonesia and Burma, but belonging to India. At least eight have been 6.0 or higher. I'm sure Burma (Myanmar) has had a significant death toll, but all that's been reported so far is "there have been casualties". Eighteen to twenty-two aftershocks so far listed on the USGS site.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/26/2004 22:18 Comments ||
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#51
I'm sure Burma (Myanmar) has had a significant death toll, but all that's been reported so far is "there have been casualties".
Yet, we are supposed to roll over and pretend that Myanmar's corrupt concealment of citizen casualties are reason enough to delay rescue efforts in that region?
Don't any of you see what I am saying? These corrupt hermetic countries are deflecting any sort of pointed inquiry so that they can continue to control all flow of information and foreign aid while NOT GIVING A ROTTEN DAMN about what happens to their people.
Protecting these filthy authoritarian tyrannies merely abets the murder of how many more innocents?
Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to be the one who wants to "kill 'em all." Unlike you bleeding-heart compassionates. Nations who willingly conceal or delay the correct reporting of their disaster statistics are MURDERERS.
#52
Shipman> They told me I'll be called in May -- which is a couple months later than I had expected actually. And I don't know whether I'll be able to stay in touch.
#53
Apart from Myanmar, and to a lesser extent Maldives and Malaysia, the countries affected - India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Thailand are democracies, and from looking at news websites of those countries, their local media do not appear to be restricted in their reporting.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/26/2004 23:34 Comments ||
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#54
Aris, glad to hear that you get a little more time at home before being called up. Hopefully you will be able to stay in touch -- at least when they set you free for a weekend or something. Despite the annoyance it brings to some here, I believe its important to sometimes get a very different perspective, whether or not I agree with it. But please don't share that perspective with your drill instructors! We'd all hate to learn after the fact that you spent most of your time in the brig for insubordination, or whatever they call it.
#55
... the countries affected - India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Thailand are democracies ...
So what? They're still amongst some of the most corrupt nations on earth! Or does that not pose any particular problem for you? Where do you think terrosim comes from? The Land of Chocolate?
#57
i want to know how affected is diego garcia by the tsunami because i never heard any news about it while in fact all islands around it are affected
Posted by: jonas ||
12/28/2004 6:00 Comments ||
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#60
Looked over all the emails. I did post a question to Diego's PA and have yet to receive any type of answer. Does anyone have contact with anyone on the island?? or any other new info?
#61
I have read that DG was wiped out and I have read that there was no damage at all. If anyone has any 100% true information please let me know. My husband is there right now and I haven't heard from him. Please anything would help
#63
Thanks so much. I hope the information from that article is correct. Now I will just have to wait for him to call so I can yell at him for not calling!! When I hear from him and get more definate info, will let you know.
Far fewer men than expected have registered to vote in next year's Saudi municipal elections, although the vote offers the first chance to go to the polls in four decades. Some 150,000 men have registered to vote in elections scheduled to begin in the capital Riyadh on Feb. 10. Officials had estimated that at least 400,000 men would sign up before registration closed Thursday. Woman were barred from voting. Mohammed al-Naqadi, the vice president of the General Committee supervising the local elections, told a news conference that a number of the applications were still being verified, due to incomplete or duplicated forms.
Candidates can register to run in the elections from Sunday until Thursday, and the final list of candidates will be announced on Jan. 23. The elections for half the 178 Riyadh council members — the rest will be appointed by the government — are part of the kingdom's measured response to calls for reforms long sought by liberals. Polling in the eastern and southwestern regions will follow the capital, starting March 3. Voters in northern parts of the country will vote April 21. Despite the kingdom's campaign urging residents to register, Saudi men showed little enthusiasm for elections in a country long regarded as autocratic, secretive and resistant to reform.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/26/2004 10:16:25 AM ||
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The Word passed down from the imams and tribal / clan leaders must have been nix.
From the Dept. of How Do I Get Tickets: The coronation of Prince Charles is reportedly already being planned, in secret preparations for his accession to the British throne following the death of Queen Elizabeth II. The Sunday Times said the Duke of Norfolk, who as earl marshal is historically responsible for coordinating the coronation, was planning to modernize the ceremony, notably by adding a role for non-Christian religious leaders in the ceremony.
I wonder which non-Christian religious leaders they are planning to appease create a role for?
Unitarians?
Episcopalians?
"A lot has happened since (the queen's) coronation in 1953. There will be a large number of differences. I don't mind the word modernizing," he was quoted as saying. "I have been secretly planning and secretly thinking and secretly consulting and secretly liaising," the duke said. But he also stressed that the sovereign, now 78, was still in good health and not likely to cede anytime soon to her 56-year-old son. The Sunday Times said Buckingham Palace and Clarence House, the office of the prince of Wales, confirmed the review of the coronation operations but referred to it as "contingency planning".
Now I'm wondering if Fred needs to pull the vulture jpeg out of the mothballs and dust it off...
#3
The greedy guts wants to be head of all the religions in his domain-to-be, not just the Church of England. Even the first Elizabeth was content merely to discriminate against non-members...she didn't presume to rule their souls as well as their bodies. If Charles were to make the ceremony non-denominational, followed by a private Church ceremony, that would be fine, but this is just silly. Does he plan to include representatives from all the varieties of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Bahai, Christianity, etc, not to mention the agnostics and the atheists? Anything less is just pandering to the Flavour of the Month.
#7
Chuck has already publicly stated he doesn't think the Monarch should be head of the Church of England.
Wonder what other "church" he might want to be head of?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 11:44 Comments ||
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#8
Open dhimmitude from King Chuck would improve relations with France, and solidify support for the monarchy in Canuckistan and Helengrad (formerly "New Zealand") but I would look for a Republic of Australia within months of the coronation/surrender ceremony.
#9
I can understand him not wanting to be associated with the Church of England. It has long since ceased to be even remotely Christian and has degenerated into a club for holier-than-thou socialist pederasts. I think that Charles is starting to realize that he is going to be passed over for William.
Posted by: Random Thoughts ||
12/26/2004 13:06 Comments ||
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#10
RT, you may have hit something there in regards to being passed over for William.
Very many people over here do not want Camilla Parker-Bowles as the Queen (or whatever titular rank is made up for her) - they really do feel (rightly or wrongly) that Charles was a bounder (great word that - makes me think I'm a Colonel in India!!) with respect to Diana. Add to the fact that Charles has made many many bone-headed statements in the past and has publicly said that he wants to be 'defender of faith' rather than 'defender of the faith' and you can see why Elizabeth hasn't considered abdication.
Consider this; there is a groundswell of patriotism in this country - the Gaurdianistas and assorted leftists were pretty freaked out by the St Georges Crosses that came out with the winning of the Rugby World Cup (Trafalgar Square - hundreds of thousands came out for that)- they live in fear of what might happen if England wins the football world cup (10x at least); most people in this country do not consider themselves 'European'; the UK Independence Party is making major gains on the so-called 'mainstream' parties; people have cottoned onto Blair's lies (hospital targets, crime targets, education targets, asylum seeker targets - all shown to be falsified or 'doctored'); there is some Anti-Americanism, but nowhere near the levels that exist elsewhere - people in this country have an affinity with the US and to cap it all, people are getting fed up of being treated like kids, with all the Nanny-State laws being passed. I'm starting to think we may have seen the high-water mark of Socialism in this land - I sincerely hope so.
If Charles does ascend to the throne, I think it will be a short reign - people have no real liking for him (he also will choose the name 'George' rather than 'Charles' as that has certain connotations - ie getting beheaded for one). In my opinion, people are looking to William as their next 'real' Monarch.
Sorry Chuck, you had your chance, and Royally (ho ho) blew it mate.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
12/26/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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#11
Tony - From your lips to the Queen's ear.
Question: Does she have some way of fixing it so Charles is skipped and William becomes King?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 17:31 Comments ||
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#12
A dose of poison would cure any problems with Chucky the Cheeseball. William then could come to the throne.
#13
I don't know Barbara - but there are so many things that go on behind the scenes with Royalty I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with something that kept him off the throne.
SPoD! :) - we don't *do* it like that any more. Well at least not since 1936 - when King George V was given a morphine-cocaine injection so that his death would be reported in the Times in the morning rather than in the evening in 'less reputable' journals!
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
12/26/2004 18:10 Comments ||
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#14
Charles has the same problem with Camilla that Edward VIII had with Wallis Simpson: she is a divorcee and thus he cannot marry her and remain head of the Chrch of England. Being monarch of the state and not the church would require some major constitutional wrangling that considering the popular position of the Royal Family is probably not on.
Posted by: john ||
12/26/2004 22:29 Comments ||
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#15
Do the Windsors really think if an Islamic coup hit the UK, they would be spared?
A wahhabi coup? Evidently yes. Look at all the hobnobbing they've done through the years with the House o' Saud. They've got plenty in common: a lack of touch with political reality, for starters, also bad taste and serious problems with their progeny.
Legislation working its way through the Brazilian Congress aims to remove references to "honest women" from this country's penal code, a change that women's rights activists such as Calazans wholeheartedly support.
The description is one that has enabled rapists and abusers to go free. It has kept Brazilian criminal law mired in male chauvinism for decades, critics charge, and more often than not has been used to harm women, not defend them.
At issue is the provision of the code that deals with sexual assault. Written more than half a century ago, the passage mandates punishment for anyone who coerces an "honest woman" into having sex, a label that meant an unmarried virgin or another man's wife.
The implication, however, was that only those women deserved protection, whereas the others deserved what they got. Judges ruled accordingly, dismissing the complaints of "unchaste" women -- those who dared have sex outside marriage -- and exonerating their attackers. The men, the thinking went, must have been provoked or somehow ensnared by the brazen women...
When the Argentine economy collapsed in December 2001, doomsday predictions abounded: Unless it adopted orthodox economic policies and quickly cut a deal with its foreign creditors, hyperinflation would surely follow, the peso would become worthless, investment and foreign reserves would vanish and any prospect of growth would be strangled.
But three years after Argentina declared a debt default of more than $100 billion, the largest in world history, the apocalypse has not arrived.
Instead, the economy has grown by 8 percent for two consecutive years, exports have zoomed, the currency is stable, investors are gradually returning and unemployment has eased from record highs — all without a debt settlement or the standard measures required by the International Monetary Fund for its approval.
Argentina's recovery has been achieved, at least in part, by ignoring and even defying economic and political orthodoxy. Rather than moving to immediately satisfy bondholders, private banks and the IMF, the Peronist-party-led government chose to stimulate internal consumption first and told creditors to get in line with everyone else.
"This is a remarkable historical event, one that challenges 25 years of failed policies," said Mark Weisbrot, an economist at the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a liberal research group in Washington, D.C. "While other countries are just limping along, Argentina is experiencing very healthy growth with no sign that it is unsustainable, and they've done it without having to make any concessions to get foreign capital inflows." So they did just the opposite of what the IMF wanted them to do, and their economy is booming. "Su-prise! Su-prise!" -- Gomer Pyle
President Fidel Castro said a crude oil deposit has been discovered off Cuba containing up to 100 million barrels, good news for a country that imports about half the petroleum it needs. "This is the first discovery since 1999," Castro said Friday in a speech to a closed session of the National Assembly. His comments were aired on state television Saturday. Castro said the deposit was located off the coast of Santa Cruz del Norte, east of Havana, during an exploratory drilling. He said production at the site could begin during 2006. Cuba currently produces 75,000 barrels daily, about half of what it needs. It imports most of the rest, much of it on favorable terms from political ally Venezuela. Oil specialists believe Cuba's waters in the Gulf of Mexico could contain large quantities of crude, just as those of Mexico and the United States do. Earlier explorations turned up only modest discoveries.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/26/2004 10:53:00 AM ||
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Cool. We can use the oil. Put up a platform just inside international waters & drill sideways (on a slant).
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 11:40 Comments ||
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#2
Barbara, I was under the impression that those oil deposits continued into US territorial waters, but it's too much political trouble to drill there. (Just like ANWR).
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/26/2004 11:56 Comments ||
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#3
I, for one, welcome the newest U.S. Territory: NE Cuba - and it's capital on the oil-drilling platform just outside Cuban waters...
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/26/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#4
Hope Castro keeps a close eye on his tourists...first will be the bearded holy men on a pilgrimage to the 5,329th holiest site in Islam, followed by the hard boyz...
Former dictator Desi Bouterse and 25 other suspects will face trial for one of this former Dutch colony's most notorious crimes, the 1982 killings of 15 government critics, a lawyer said Saturday. Prosecutors notified Bouterse and the others of the decision last week, said Irwin Kanhai, a lawyer who represents five of the defendants, including the former dictator. "The notifications state that my clients will be tried for alleged murder," Kanhai said. Six other suspects in the case won't face trial for lack of evidence, according to an official in the prosecutor's office who spoke on condition of anonymity. The official said the trials could start by March. Bouterse and the others could face up to 20 years in prison if convicted.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/26/2004 10:17:48 AM ||
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Voters in Uzbekistan are going to the polls to choose a new parliament. The government has hailed the vote as a democratic breakthrough, but opposition candidates are not allowed to run. "Hail! Hail! All hail, uh, Whats-his-name! Y'know - the only one on the ballot!"
Security is tight after an unprecedented year of anti-government protests, including bazaar riots, and even suicide bomb attacks. Sounds like he still might not get 100% of the vote. But, hey, it's who counts, not who votes, eh? Carter taught us that.
Five parties are fielding candidates but all of them support President Islam Karimov, the powerful leader who has run Uzbekistan for almost 20 years. "But we're different parties! Really. Why are you smiling?"
Some independents did try to stand but officials rejected their applications on technical grounds. "You're not me - so you can't run."
Almost no Uzbeks we asked in the street could name the parties or tell the difference between them. "They all look the same to me, man."
Very many said that they would not turn out to vote because they did not see the point.
... Proving that since they do not see the point, they get the point.
Posted by: .com ||
12/26/2004 3:45:48 AM ||
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That's not voting. That's validating the boot on your neck
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/26/2004 9:55 Comments ||
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On the eve of Ukraine's hotly contested presidential vote, the nation's highest court on Saturday threw out some of the election law changes aimed at battling fraud, a possible setback for opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko. The Constitutional Court ruling poses a last-minute logistical challenge to election officials and could provide grounds for a protracted dispute over the results of the vote -- a repeat of a November vote that was thrown out because of fraud. The ruling came as Yushchenko and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych took a legally required day off from campaigning before Sunday's vote, and some 12,000 international observers -- the largest election monitoring mission ever launched -- fanned out across the country. Sunday's vote marks the culmination of a month of upheaval in Ukraine, marked by huge protests in the streets of Kiev by Yushchenko supporters; a Supreme Court ruling that voided Yanukovych's victory in the Nov. 21 vote; tension between Russia -- which backs Yanukovych -- and the West, and revelations that Yushchenko, a pro-Western reformer, was poisoned by dioxin.
Saturday's court decision brought a new twist in the final hours before polls open. The court ruled that amendments allowing people with only certain disabilities to vote at home were unconstitutional, and it ordered that all who were unable to reach polling stations because of a disability or ill health be allowed to vote at home. Saturday's ruling could benefit Yanukovych, who pushed for the restrictions to be lifted, saying they would deprive millions of their right to vote. However, it could also throw an unexpected monkey wrench into his campaign team's announced plans to help disabled voters reach polling stations. They are considered a key source of backing of Yanukovych because the prime minister raised pensions during his two years in office.... Nope. No shenanigans this time.
Posted by: .com ||
12/26/2004 3:37:58 AM ||
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HIS name became an aphorism for meanness, but the base nature of Ebenezer Scrooge was inadvertently fashioned by failing light and an author whose eyesight was equally dim.
The real "Scrooge", an Edinburgh merchant, could not have been more different from his literary counterpart.
But the gloaming of an evening in the Capital, allied with an episode of mild dyslexia suffered by Charles Dickens, has forever associated Ebenezer Lennox Scroggie with one of the Victorian author's most famous characters.
In life, Scroggie was apparently a rambunctious, generous and licentious man who gave wild parties, impregnated the odd serving wench and once wonderfully interrupted the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland by grabbing the buttocks of a hapless countess.
However, it was in 1841 when his entire life was misconstrued by Dickens.
Dickens was in the capital to deliver a lecture to an audience of Edinburgh notables. He was wandering the city, killing time before the talk, when he visited the Canongate Kirk graveyard.
There, as revealed by his diaries, he saw a memorial slab which read: "Ebenezer Lennox Scroggie - meal man". The description referred to his main trade as a corn merchant. However, the author mistakenly translated it as "mean man".
Though he was shocked by the description, it gave him food for thought and two years later, art imitated life - or so the author believed.
When A Christmas Carol , one of Dickens' finest works, was published in 1843, it featured Ebenezer Scrooge, a "mean man" erroneously based on Ebenezer Scroggie.
Dickens always believed his creation was rooted in truth. Later, he wrote that while Scots had a reputation for frugality, they were not mean. It must have "shrivelled" Scroggie's soul, said Dickens, to carry "such a terrible thing to eternity".
But, now, appropriately, on the eve of Christmas, Scroggie's reputation is restored. Peter Clark, a political economist and former Conservative ministerial aide who has researched the episode, said: "I've always thought A Christmas Carol was splendid, a story of redemption, but Scrooge was based on Scroggie, who could not have been more different.
"Mere chance associated him with Dickens' creation."
Details of Scroggie's life are sparse, but he was a vintner as well as a corn merchant. He won the catering contract for the visit of George IV to Edinburgh in 1882, the first British monarch to visit since Culloden. He also secured the first contract to supply whisky to the Royal Navy.
Scroggie was born in Kirkcaldy, Fife; his mother was the niece of Adam Smith, the 18th century political economist and philosopher.
Mr Clark added: "Scroggie was not mean-spirited, but he did attract the admonition of the Church of Scotland by having a child out of wedlock to a servant in 1830. It is alleged he 'ravished' her upon a gravestone. Still, what else was there to do in Edinburgh in 1830?"
Perhaps Scroggie's most delightful claim to fame was the result of his dramatically halting proceedings at the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, when he "goosed" the Countess of Mansfield during a particularly earnest debate... "Bah! Hah-hah!"
The French parliament yesterday definitively adopted legislation that could lead to year-long jail terms for anyone found guilty of insulting homosexuals or women. The justice minister, Dominique Perben, believes the laws are necessary to combat an increase in homophobia, but they have been condemned by advocates of free speech who say they are too strict and unworkable.
The law puts anti-gay and sexist comments on an equal footing with racist or anti-semitic insults, allowing French courts to hand down fines of up to â¬45,000 (£30,000) and jail sentences of up to 12 months for "defamation or incitement to discrimination, hatred or violence on the grounds of a person's sex or sexual orientation".
Proferring an anti-gay insult, including any remark "of a more general nature tending to denigrate homosexuals as a whole", in public - meaning on air, in print or at a public meeting - is also an imprisonable offence, while private sexist or homophobic taunts between individuals could incur fines of up to â¬375.
Gay and feminist groups have welcomed the law, which is in part a response to a significant increase in verbal and physical attacks recorded against homosexuals in France.
The number of violent acts against gays doubled to 86 in 2003.
"It's great and welcome news," said Ronan Rosec of the campaign group SOS Homophobie.
"Gays in France just do not want to be abused, physically or verbally, any more."
Another gay rights organisation, Inter-LGBT, said the law marked "the crossing of a decisive bridge" for France.
The feminist group Les Chiennes de Garde, or Guard Bitches, added that it hoped the law would lead to a fall in the number of physical attacks on women "by first outlawing verbal violence".
But the legislation, which also establishes an impartial body, the High Authority against Discrimination and for Equality, to help victims of bias, has drawn as much criticism as praise, particularly from advocates of free speech who say it will be difficult to enforce and will lead to self-censorship.
In theory, critics say, the law could mean that devout Christians who denounce homosexuality as "deviant" would be prosecuted; comedians can no longer make mother-in-law jokes; the producers and distributors of the camp comedy film La Cage Aux Folles could end up in the dock; and parts of the Old Testament might be banned... However, you can still call someone you hate an "American".
Let me start: Frog Parliament - You're a bunch of PC silk-underwear-wearing cheese-eating surrender-wussies. I fart in your general direction.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 17:19 Comments ||
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#2
This is not going to mesh too well with Sharia law.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/26/2004 17:39 Comments ||
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#3
Well I thought muzzies liked the boys? Women being just for breeding new holy warriors noting more. So this law is about protecting them too I guess.
Three exit polls projected Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko the winner by a commanding margin over Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych in Sunday's fiercely fought presidential rematch.
A glum-looking Yanukovych told reporters "if we fail, we will form a strong opposition." He did not concede defeat, saying "I am ready to lead the state" and hinted that he would challenge the results in court. The first official results are not expected until Monday morning.
The exit polls tracked an unprecedented third-round presidential election, which was watched by an army of foreign observers stationed at polls to prevent the kind of fraud that sparked weeks of protests in the streets of Kiev, the capital, and sent a flurry of recriminations flying between Russia and the West after last month's court-annulled run-off.
The state-funded Ukrainian Institute of Social Research and Social Monitoring Center showed Yushchenko winning with 58.1 percent of the vote and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych garnering 38.4 percent. The margin of error was 2 percentage points.
The Western-funded Razumkov Center of Political Studies and Kiev International Institute of Sociology showed Yushchenko winning with 56.5 percent and Yanukovych collecting 41.3 percent of the vote, with no margin of error given.
A third exit poll, by Frank Luntz, a pollster for the U.S. Republican Party, and Douglas Schoen, of the Washington-based market research company Penn, Schoen & Berland, showed Yushchenko winning with 56 to Yanukovych's 41 percent, Schoen said. The margin of error was 2 percentage points.
The contest was a momentous political event for Ukraine, a nation of 48 million people torn between an eastward-expanding European Union (news - web sites) and NATO (news - web sites), and an increasingly assertive Russia, its former imperial and Soviet-era master.
Yushchenko, a former Central Bank chief and prime minister, hopes to take Ukraine closer to the West and to push through economic and political reforms. The Kremlin-backed Yanukovych, the current prime minister, emphasized tightening the Slavic country's ties with Russia as a means of maintaining stability.
Yushchenko has promised to uproot the corruption which saw the former Soviet republic's wealth concentrated in the hands of about a dozen businessmen. Yanukovych has promised to continue work to boost Ukraine's economy — which enjoys the fastest growth rate in Europe — and pledged an increase in wages and pensions.
Serhiy Shetchkov, 53, a Kiev voter, said he had cast his ballot for Yushchenko — "of course."
"He is an economist and that's what the country needs right now," he said after slipping his ballot into a transparent box at Kiev's Music Conservatory. "I'm not as interested in all this talk about the European Union versus Russia. I'm interested in someone who can raise the standard of living, raise pensions, create more jobs."
The political crisis has highlighted the rift between Ukraine's Russian-speaking, heavily industrial east and cosmopolitan Kiev and the west, where Ukrainian nationalism runs deep. Yanukovych backers fear discrimination from the Ukrainian-speaking west, and some eastern regions briefly threatened to seek autonomy if Yushchenko were to win the presidency.
"I am voting for independence (of eastern Ukraine), an end to feeding those lazy westerners! My vote goes to Yanukovych," said Hrihoriy Reshetnyak, a 44-year-old miner who cast his ballot in the prime minister's eastern stronghold, Donetsk.
Yushchenko, whose face remains badly scarred from dioxin poisoning he blamed on Ukrainian authorities, built momentum for the Supreme Court-ordered third vote with round-the-clock protest by supporters, echoing the spirit of the anti-communist revolutions that swept other East European countries in 1989-90.
"What we did during the last 30 days was a tribute to our ancestors," Yushchenko told reporters after voting in Kiev's trade union building. "I know they are looking at us from heaven and they are applauding."
His backers launched the demonstrations after Yanukovych was named the winner of the fraud-marred Nov. 21 presidential runoff. The Supreme Court later annulled the results and ordered Sunday's repeat vote, which is being monitored by more than 12,000 international observers.
The political crisis sparked arguments between Russia, which had backed Yanukovych and insisted that the vote had been free and fair, and the West, which stubbornly held out for a new contest. Each side accused the other of undue interference in Ukraine's affairs.
"We hope for a free, fair vote that meets international standards and results in an outcome truly reflecting the will of Ukraine's people," said U.S. State Department spokesman Noel Clay.
Outgoing President Leonid Kuchma said he hoped the results will stick this. "In my opinion, the one who loses should call and congratulate the winner ... and put an end to this prolonged election campaign."
Pollsters said they heard the same sentiment of fatigue from voters.
"I think the public is looking for this to be over," said Douglas Schoen, a pollster for the U.S. Democratic Party who teamed up with Frank Luntz of the country's rival Republican Party to conduct an exit poll of 10,000 voters.
"The public is looking to move ahead," he said, adding that Ukrainians "are more excited about what the future might bring them."
By 3 p.m., the Central Election Commission had reported 55.2 percent turnout with 90 percent of Ukraine's precincts reporting.
Despite the huge presence of foreign observers, both campaigns complained of some violations. Yanukovych's campaign alleged that Yushchenko campaign material was found near some voting booths. Yushchenko's headquarters, meanwhile, complained that the names of the dead were included on a voter list in Donetsk.
In spite of fears of violence, no major incidents were reported by Sunday evening. As the voting wound down, about a dozen pro-Yushchenko protesters sat around campfire in the opposition tent camp, drinking hot tea, while nearby someone played the guitar. Three men wearing Yanukovych's white-and-blue scarves stood outside the camp's makeshift barriers, watching. The two groups didn't talk to each other.
On Saturday, the Constitutional Court ruled against some amendments passed earlier this month that would have allowed only people with certain disabilities to vote at home. The court said all those unable to reach polling stations because of a disability or ill health must be allowed to vote at home.
But it was unclear if the ruling would help or hurt Yanukovych, who enjoys strong backing from the elderly and disabled. His campaign workers had planned to ferry many homebound elderly to the polls, and logistics may have prevented more from taking advantage of the last-minute ruling.
Posted by: ed ||
12/26/2004 2:22:32 PM ||
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#1
Didn't that happen the last time, too?
I'll wait for the final results, thankyouverymuch.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 17:24 Comments ||
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Canada is receiving its first influx of Americans fleeing the United States because they are distraught with the re-election of President Bush. Americans are crossing the Washington state border to make a new life in Bush-free Canada. Immigration Canada, the government agency, has approved the first visas and families such as the Kilbournes of Seattle now are searching for a home in British Columbia, reports the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. "It's a little scary because we've lived in the same place and had the same jobs for well over a decade," said Becky Kilbourne, a state prosecutor in Seattle who confesses to mixed feelings about leaving her old life behind. "I am very anxious to have the kids settled with new friends and in decent schools," she said, according to the CBC. The family applied more than a year ago and planned to cancel their application if the Democrats won, said father Tresey Kilbourne. "With the Republicans in full control of everything, there hasn't been anything that has caused us to think that we weren't doing anything other than the smart thing a year ago," he told the CBC. Dozens more "Bush refugees" are expected once their applications are processed, said the Vancouver law firm the Kilbournes first contacted. As WorldNetDaily reported, Americans have flocked in record numbers to the Canadian government's immigration website, which showed a six-fold increase in traffic the day after the Nov. 2 election.
#3
Anonymoose: Fair is fair. For every 10 Bush evaders the US should get one Canadian conservative in exchange.
Every year, more Canadians move to the US than the other way around. Given the rough parity in living standards and the disparity in population (290m to about 30m), that's pretty amazing. The number of Americans moving to Canada should be way higher than the number of Canadians moving to the US.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/26/2004 17:26 Comments ||
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#6
Ditto to Barb! Can we convince any LLL Californian to join their socialist brothers in the great white north? Maybe we should enact a law that they must take so many LLL per Canadian we let in? Right now they (canadians) are moving here faster (by 3-to-1) than Amercians moving there. Maybe we should make that a 1-2 ratio?
#7
They do know that they have to give up 50% of their income in taxes, right? Or let me guess, they will keep their US citizenship, and opt to pay the lower taxes in the States instead. Sorry. They're not wanted. (or at least let me move south).
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/26/2004 19:34 Comments ||
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#8
Would you be willing to change your name to Becky Kilbourne and wearing a wig for the Washington state driver's license photo?
Posted by: ed ||
12/26/2004 19:54 Comments ||
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#10
Actually, CS, what really makes sense is a trade, California, Oregon and Washington for BC, less Vancouver, Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Yukon and Northwest Territories, with placement options for the Inuit.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/26/2004 21:03 Comments ||
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#11
ed, if that was for me, then yes. On second thought, I would be forever affiliated with moonbats, so the final answer is no.
Dishman, sure. I can handle the move, but to help me assimilate faster, I'd need someone to show me the finer points of (legal) gun ownership. I wouldn't feel offended then, if somebody called me a "cowboy". [cowboy is sometimes used offensively up here, I've surely heard enough of it].
BTW, my father wants to move as well, and he wants to buy the biggest damn SUV that you Americans produce. Bring it on, World.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/26/2004 21:15 Comments ||
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#12
Well, identity switch was worth a try. It's not like Becky will be needing it for a while. You get your gun and ammo when customs stamps your passport at the border. Be sure to ask for the NRA welcome package. You sure about wanting the biggest SUV? International Harvester Xtreme SUV
Posted by: ed ||
12/26/2004 21:35 Comments ||
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#13
"I can handle the move, but to help me assimilate faster, I'd need someone to show me the finer points of (legal) gun ownership."
If you end up in Philadelphia, look me up and I'll take you to my favorite pistol range.
(We got Molson here, too, so you'll feel right at home.)
Posted by: Dave D. ||
12/26/2004 22:01 Comments ||
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#14
Here's the right trade: for every US moonbat "exile," immediate US citizenship for any Canadian with either a) a PhD in hard science, engineering or math from a leading Canadian university or b) a strong entrepreneurial track record of starting at least two successful businesses during the last seven years.
But no switches back for a period of at least fifteen years. And no tax gaming by the US exiles. All or nothin'. Deal?
But Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Senate's new Democratic leader, disagreed.
"It's a disservice to the American people to detract from the important work of the Senate to reconsider these failed nominees," he said, according to Reuters news agency.
Boy, that's rich. A democrat after four solid years of obstructing critical work in getting judges on the bench but Reid complains about Bush's 'disservice?'
Anyone see anything wrong with this statement? None of Bush's nominees have been considered by the full senate as they should have been, only by a tiny minority of democratic senators
Some Democrats have also charged that the move undermines Mr Bush's post-election promise to reach out to opponents.
I think Bush decided post election that if the left does reach out he won't slap their hand away, otherwise, forget it.
#5
Screw that "reaching out to the left" shit. When in Gods name did they reach out to our side? We are we the ones that must 'comprimise' and be 'tolerant'? I gurandamntee you that if they had captured the White House and Senate the LAST thing out of their mouths would be "Reaching out to the Right"! Bush should resubmit EVERY Judge that was blocked during his last administration and the Dhimis can KISS MY ASS if they don't like it.
(2004-12-23) -- In an effort to reach out to Democrats and heal partisan wounds, President George Bush today announced he would nominate radio host Rush Limbaugh and author Ann Coulter as judges on the federal circuit courts of appeal.
"I'm pleased to nominate Mr. Limbaugh, a disabled American, and Miss Coulter, a woman American, to the federal bench," said Mr. Bush. "I expect bipartisan support in the Senate for these nominees since we all share a commitment to diversity on the courts."
Sen. Arlen Specter, who will chair the Senate judiciary committee, said, "I'm impressed with the president's magnanimous gesture of reconciliation with our friends on the other side of the aisle. As judiciary chairman, I will personally guarantee that these nominees will move on a fast-track."
Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-NV, said he had not heard of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter before, "but I understand that they're celebrities," he said, "and we Democrats have always had a warm relationship with the entertainment industry."
Posted by: Korora ||
12/26/2004 12:02:18 AM ||
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I think they'd find official roles far too limiting. Ann couldn't tweak noses and piss people off nearly as effectively as she does now... and it certainly is a thing to behold when she gets a live one on the line, heh.
Severely edited for length
In South Africa, virtually all the poor people are black. It does not follow that all black South Africans are poor, but the South African government has for the past 10 years acted as if the two words were interchangeable. Any program whose stated aim is to uplift those who were crushed by apartheid is assumed, ipso facto, to be a good thing. This has culminated in something called "Black Economic Empowerment," a process whereby white-owned firms are encouraged to surrender large dollops of equity to black businessmen. This is "voluntary," but firms that stay white cannot win government contracts, and many assume that if they do not yield now, they will end up being nationalized, Mugabe-style, in a decade or two. Well, South Africa may well wind up a sh*thole like Zimbabwe, but at least blacks are given white folks stuff. That's a good thing, right? Read on...
Fretting about the color of one's shareholders is a distraction from the humdrum task of making things that people might want to buy. But at least it's giving a leg-up to poor blacks, right? Wrong. Since the aim, as far as business is concerned, is to placate the government, the blacks who have been "empowered" have largely been senior members of the ruling African National Congress. The bulk of the "empowerment" seems to involve just four very rich men, three of them contenders for the presidency in 2009, when Thabo Mbeki stands down.
"Black empowerment" has become such a naked carve-up that several of the ANC's traditional allies have started to complain. Labor unions are threatening to obstruct the most egregious deals, and Archbishop Desmond Tutu has lamented that black empowerment was benefiting only "a small elite." Mr. Mbeki responded with a furious rebuttal, in which he accused the archbishop of being ignorant and untruthful.
South Africa matters, because if it fails, the rest of Africa hasn't a prayer. Yet if it booms, it could do for the poorest continent what Japan did for East Asia. It has Africa's most sophisticated economy, by far. The roads are smooth, ATMs work and, most importantly, it is the only sizeable country south of the Sahara where the rule of law prevails. Its relatively peaceful transition from apartheid to multiracial democracy was rightly hailed as a miracle. The white minority gave up power without a civil war. The ex-guerrillas who took over in 1994 have governed quite well ever since. Rather than seek revenge for the old regime's atrocities, they have sought to reconcile black and white. Most impressively, the new ruling party has ditched the Marxism it used to espouse and pursued the soundest macroeconomic policies in living memory. ...snip...
Instead, the focus is on redistribution. And not the conventional sort, from rich to poor, but from white to black, which is not the same. South Africa has embarked on probably the most extreme affirmative action program anywhere. Private companies above a certain size are obliged to try to make their workforces "demographically representative" (i.e. 75% black, 50% female, etc.) from factory floor to boardroom. This is not a minor irritant, like affirmative action in the U.S. The group which must be given preference constitutes a large majority. But because, under apartheid, blacks were deliberately deprived of education, there is a gaping shortage of blacks with commercially useful skills. Less than 2% of chartered accountants, for example, are black. You'd think South Africa would focus on education instead of government-sponsored/enforced race-based theft...
This can only be fixed by improving schools. But the ANC's first impulse, when it came to power, was to try to raise the proportion of teachers who were black, by paying a large number of the most experienced white teachers to retire. Scandalously, black pupils' exam results got worse in the early years after apartheid ended. They have since recovered, but still, barely 1% of black high school students pass higher grade math, and very few opt for tough subjects at university, such as science or engineering. They got rid of qualified teachers because of their race. What they have now is well deserved.
Unlike private companies, the government finds it easy to hire by race rather than merit, because it has no competitors and cannot go bust. This is nice for the blacks it employs, but less good for the much larger number who depend on the state for health care, water, roads and pensions. The state does not even try to deliver these services cost-effectively. Black-owned contractors can charge more and still win public-works contracts, so poor blacks get fewer clinics than they otherwise would have. Legions of white managers have been pushed out to make way for inexperienced blacks, and then hired back as expensive consultants to tell their replacements how to do their jobs. The end result will be more dead poor blacks, presumably the obverse result of the policy.
The most insidious effect of the new racial laws has been to provide a cloak for the sort of cronyism that has wrecked the rest of Africa. The black tycoons who made fortunes by parlaying political connections into a share of someone else's business actually believe they are helping to "de-racialize" the economy. They regard themselves as role models for black youth, and magazine covers reinforce this delusion. The idea that wealth needs to be created is little aired. That is because South Africa's political leadership drink daily from Old Bob brand of Marxism.
The new backlash against "black enrichment" may curb the four biggest black tycoons, but there is no serious talk of a South Africa where all are equal before the law. It is perhaps worth noting a parallel with Malaysia, another place where affirmative action is aimed at a large majority. Malays are now richer in Singapore, where they do not receive preferences, than in Malaysia, where they do.
Posted by: badanov ||
12/26/2004 8:13:33 AM ||
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IIRC, there was a joke among the white South Africans about Rhodesia Zimbobwe:
Q. What is Zimbobwe?
A. South Africa in about 10 to 15 years.
Like a lot of jokes about the world lately, it seems more like prophecy than humor.
Posted by: N Guard ||
12/26/2004 9:34 Comments ||
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#2
What I fail to comprehend is why whites stay in South Africa when the endgame is so obvious it's right next door.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/26/2004 9:40 Comments ||
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#3
In Rhodesia, tyranny flourishes because of an almost leftist-liberal willingness to surrender everything, instead of resisting, by those Mugabe wishes to steal from. Resistance can come in many forms, but unless you show some, any, backbone, you Darwinistically determine your fate. But the white (and colored) SAs are not so inbred, squishy and homogeneous. They can, and I suspect, do, resist in many and manifold ways. Be they the British, the Boers, the Jews, the Indians, and the Colored, they all can cooperate, as needs be, and resist in their own fashion, instead of just being raped. Certainly, their little cabal of corrupt leaders steal, but even in the multi-millions it is the petty theft of the small-minded. And by forcing the economy to educate, where the government has failed, it may force private enterprise to take what are essentially iron age peasants and force them to modernize. This will utterly crush their culture of backwardness and poverty, and again Darwin wins.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The coronation of Prince Charles is reportedly already being planned, in secret preparations for his accession to the British throne following the death of Queen Elizabeth II. The Sunday Times said the Duke of Norfolk, who as earl marshal is historically responsible for coordinating the coronation, was planning to modernize the ceremony, notably by adding a role for non-Christian religious leaders in the ceremony.
