Posted by: 3dc ||
11/19/2008 16:00 ||
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#1
Prior to Jimmy Carter, for years the DOW operated in a range between 800-1000. A reliable economist is now suggesting that the current downturn will stabilize at between 1200-1500.
#4
Five years hell, anyone retiring in the next 15 is in trouble. If the DJI falls to 6,000, let's say, that's a 50% drop in 18 months from where it was before. How long to get 50% back? If the economy grows 3% a year after the recession is over, it could take quite a while.
And there's no reason to think the recession will be either short or shallow. If China can't/won't lend us accumulated dollars, we won't be able to run high deficits like we have. That means that Bambi will bankrupt us either by pushing his social programs or by taxing us to death.
Enjoy.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2008 17:21 Comments ||
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#5
That means that Bambi will bankrupt us either by pushing his social programs or by taxing us to death. I am beginning to suspect the US is already bankrupt. (Is there any way the national debt could ever be paid off?)
The incomprehensible part about our situation is, the rest of the world is even worse off.
#6
The debt is always paid by someone, Anguper Hupomosing9418. In this case, long term our children and grandchildren will have a lower standard of living and little possibility of early retirement.
#7
(Is there any way the national debt could ever be paid off?)
Yes, but it would take some balls.
Someone on another thread had this great idea. The one thing we have and everyone needs is food. When all these countries come calling for some wheat or rye, tell them that from now on, all food exports must be paid for in cash at the going rates. If cash is not available, forgiven debt at 5-10 times the market rate will suffice.
If not, starve.
The debt will go away pretty quickly.
Posted by: no mo uro ||
11/19/2008 17:48 Comments ||
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#8
The last time the debt was paid off it sent the country into a far worse tail spin than it is in now. The debt is a wonderful tool and should not be abused. Neither should it be extinguished.
#9
Again, 9-11/WOT > WAR FOR GLOBALISM = WAR FOR PRO-US/ANTI-US OWG-NWO, including for SOCIALIST ORDER.
Despite Dubya's numerous successes, THE OUTCOME OF THE WOTAS WAS FOR OWG-NWO IS STILL INA HIGH STTAE OF FLUX. US = US-ALLIED DOMINATION OF SAME IS NOT CERTAIN, WHILST WEAKENED RADICAL ISLAM IS STILL CAPABLE OF ATTACK AND VICTORY.
"BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY" PRECEPT-DOGMA > In the absence of a clear or decisive winner, one way to impose NATIONAl/LOCAL-GLOBAL SOCIALIST ORDER IS VIA PROTRACTIVE OR ENDURATIVE ECON DSIRUPTIONS AND CHAOS. Those Global Warming Enviros whom are demanding immediate [global] prioritization and resolution of the GW agendums are likely NOT gonna get it, thanx to good ole SOCIALIST REGRESSIVE- AND INFLATIONARY PUBLIC POLICIES. OOOOOOOPPPPPPPSIES.
LEFTISTS-SOCIALISTS, ETC. ARE ON THE THRESHOLD OF [PCORRECT/DENIABLE] SOCIALIST WORLD VICTORY, BUT ARE STILL "UNHAPPY"???
#10
Dammit Joe...I understood that one, and didn't like what you had to say. Sadly, I also have to agree.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
11/19/2008 21:10 Comments ||
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#11
The government of the United States has some 270,000 SQUARE MILES of land controlled by the Forestry Service in the Western United States. At 640 acres/square mile, and $2500/acre (average price - a lot would be worth more), that's $432 billion. The BLM has about the same. That doesn't include anything east of the Mississippi, none of our national parks or monuments, scenic rivers, etc. There's still an estimated 32 MILLION ounces of gold in Colorado - just gold. Most of it's not currently economically feasible to mine, but things can change. There's still plenty of other minerals, including oil and natural gas, that could be sold to pay the national debt. The United States is not bankrupt - it just doesn't have much left in the way of fluid capital that isn't promised or tied up. We raise enough food to feed our entire population on 2% of our land area, and have tons and tons to export. At one time, 27% of all land was used for farming. Our problem isn't a lack of assets, but a lack of will piled atop a mountain of criminal behavior.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2008 21:44 Comments ||
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The Zimbabwean premier-designate has warned the president to keep his promise to form a coalition with the opposition Movement for Democratic Change. MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai said President Robert Mugabe should not form a government without him. "If he wants to proceed with a government without us, I know he knows that is unrealistic and that government will not be functional," Tsvangirai said on Tuesday.
He also pledged to use his majority in parliament to render such a government unworkable. "He needs us, we control parliament, and he needs a deal for his own sake, to salvage his own legacy," AFP quoted him as saying.
In mid-September, Mugabe and Tsvangirai signed an agreement to share power after a post-election dispute, but implementation of the deal has stalled amid a row over the division of key ministries.
In his trip to France, Tsvangirai urged European countries to put more pressure on Mugabe to break the political impasse in the country.
Yeah, get the Euros on your side. That'll help ...
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Pistols loaded with heavy shot and twenty paces for the both of them. Uncivilized, whinning tribalist buggers. Both of them are as twisted as a Kudu's horn.
(SomaliNet) Following a series of defeats by Tutsi rebels in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo, Congolese president Joseph Kabila has replaced his military chief of staff.
On Monday the rebels captured the town of Rwindi, 100 kilometres north of the city of Goma.
After talks with UN special envoy and former president of Nigeria Olusegun Obasanjo on Sunday, rebel leader Laurent Nkunda said he was prepared to hold a ceasefire and talks with the government.
Aid workers fear that a continuation of fighting will make things even worse for the region's 250,000 refugees.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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A top UN official in the Democratic Republic of Congo says that sending additional UN peacekeepers to the country would not resolve all the issues, although it would be helpful.
"Reinforcements are not going to resolve all the problems," said Alan Doss, head of the UN peacekeeping mission in Congo. He said on Tuesday that reinforcements would help to stabilize the situation a bit and allow the political and diplomatic process to go forward.
His remarks came after France drafted a Security Council resolution granting UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon's request for 3,000 additional troops and police for the peacekeeping mission in Congo.
On Wednesday, the Security Council could vote on the resolution, which would temporarily raise the limit for the UN's biggest peacekeeping mission to over 20,000, and diplomats said it was likely to be approved.
Earlier, Congolese rebels loyal to renegade Gen. Laurent Nkunda announced a military pullback to end the fighting between the rebels and Congolese government troops.
Doss also expressed hope that the announcement would be the first step toward talks between the rebels and the government.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Have UN troops ever solved anyones problems? no seriously
Posted by: chris ||
11/19/2008 8:14 Comments ||
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#2
Well... South Koreas', maybe. But that was a while ago.
The Qatari oil minister says the oil market will experience tough situations next year as oil demand will be reduced because of the global crisis.
Crude oil prices have fallen by two-thirds since July's record high of $147 a barrel on fears of a prolonged global recession that could decrease world energy demand.
"I expect 2009 to be a difficult year. All the indicators affirm a large decline in demand during the last quarter of the current year and the first quarter of 2009," the Qatar state news agency QNA quoted Oil Minister Abdullah al-Attiyah as saying on Monday.
Al-Attiyah stated that a reduction in investment in oil projects due to the decline in the price of oil could lead to a decrease in oil supply in the long-term when demand increases.
The Qatari oil minister made the remarks after Qatar Petroleum and the German firm Wintershall Holding AG signed an oil and gas exploration and production sharing agreement for a Qatar offshore block in Doha.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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A YEAR ago it would have been unthinkable. After all, it was a city where driving to work became a life-or-death decision and where residents were cooped in enclaves amid murder and mayhem.
But the Mayor of Baghdad has surprised everyone by announcing plans for an underground rail network that would literally carve a swathe through the city's sectarian lines. If investors sign up, the world's most violent capital will soon have a $US3 billion ($A4.6 billion) metro. Mayor Sabir al-Issawi said money had been set aside in next year's budget for a feasibility study.
And if if goes ahead, the Iraqi Government has earmarked money that it says could build most of the two mooted rail lines without private help. Even the country's optimists were last night calling the plan ambitious, but lauding its audacity.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2008 10:46 ||
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#1
Proof that Iraq is on the way to stability - they'er planning their very own "big dig..."
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
11/19/2008 11:29 Comments ||
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A Cairo court on Tuesday overruled the Egyptian government's decision to allow exports of natural gas to Israel and said the constitution gave parliament the right to decide on sales of natural resources. But Israel expressed confidence that the Egyptian government would not allow any interruption to gas deliveries under the deal despite the court order.
Israel rejects ruling
A senior Egyptian official said the verdict did not require immediate implementation and the government would appeal against it. Cabinet spokesman Magdy Rady said the government respected the judiciary but could not comment until it receives the ruling.
Judicial sources said the government could ignore the ruling, as it has done in many past cases, or postpone action by filing a countersuit challenging the decision.
Israel's Ministry of National Infrastructure said it was confident the political agreement covering the gas between the Egyptian and Israeli governments would remain in effect. "The ... ministry has no doubt that deals between the Egyptian gas company and its customers in Israel remain valid. The ministry is convinced that the supply of gas from Egypt to Israel will continue as usual," it added.
Former diplomat Ibrahim Yussri, along with some members of the opposition, brought the case against the government several months ago.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2008 22:26 Comments ||
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#3
ION MMGW, RUSSIA TODAY > THE END OF EARTH BROUGHT FORWARD [Earth = Life doomed come Year 2038 or after]. CO2 levels = damage in the earth's atmosphere is such that even iff reduced, catastrophic effects will still occur ["irreversable"]. NO MORE NEW CO2 EMISSIONS FROM NOW ON, ONLY MANDATORY GLOBAL REDUX TO LEVELS WHICH EXISTED BEFORE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.
* Increase in DESERTS/ENVIRO DESERTIFICATIONS, POOR CROP YIELDS [starvation], HURRICANES/STORMS STRENTHS, + GLACIAL MELT [Sea-level risins' + no fresh water].
ALso, WORLD MIL FORUM > US DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE: OVER 30.0-PLUS MILYUHN [36.2M] AMERICANS, MORE US FAMILIES FACE INCREASED HUNGER RISK, including 1 out of every 6 US Children.
The Iranian parliament on Tuesday approved President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's nominee as interior minister by a thin margin, two weeks after it sacked his predecessor for lying about his credentials.
Sadeq Mahsouli, a former Revolutionary Guards comrade of the president, takes charge of the ministry responsible for overseeing elections seven months before a presidential poll. Ahmadinejad is expected to run but has yet to declare.
In 2005, Ahmadinejad nominated Mahsouli for the post of oil minister but withdrew ahead of a parliamentary vote of confidence because he had no experience in the crucial oil sector.
Like Ahmadinejad, the 49-year-old Mahsouli is a veteran of the Revolutionary Guards, the elite ideological army which has been steadily encroaching on national politics in the Islamic republic. He has served in provincial government posts and also as a deputy defense minister in charge of planning.
On November 11, the majlis (parliament) voted to sack Ali Kordan as interior minister for lying about his educational credentials and presenting a fake degree from Britain's Oxford University.
Ahmadinejad had praised his nominee to the lawmakers, telling them that he had known Mahsouli for 30 years "during university time and during the hard times and he has always followed the path of the (Islamic) revolution."
This article starring:
Sadeq Mahsouli
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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Interesting (and very long) take on the current economic situation. I'm not expert to comment on the piece but Mr. Judis raises some interesting points about how America has financed its debt. Some of this at least will find favor with our regular readers.
by John B. Judis
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2008 13:15 ||
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#1
Key point seems to be
"The United States has acquiesced in large trade deficits--and their effect on the U.S. workforce--in exchange for foreign funding of our budget deficits. And Asia has accepted a lower standard of living in exchange for export-led growth and a lower risk of currency crises."
As long as Asia sees financing the US budget deficit as a safer place to park their money than elsewhere, the situation will continue.
The other situation still unwinding is the collapse of financial derivatives which have financed the shadow banking system. This has the effect of shrinking the supply of money (=deflation).
#2
If economics were a zero-sum game, as it generally should be, this would be the case. But it isn't. A true zero sum economic picture hasn't existed since the end of mercantilism, in which whoever had the most specie (gold and silver) was the wealthiest and most powerful.
Instead, economic systems have surpassed "tokenism", the use of paper to represent specie. Paper money first represented specie or other product, still being based on some physical asset. But then it evolved, so that the value of currency was based on process--that is, a currency that is used is more valuable than one that is not. More use means stronger economy.
This works with one currency, but if there are two currencies available, the opposite becomes true. The less desirable currency is used, and the more desirable currency is saved. The "Iron Rule" of currency.
This paradox is the very basis of the international currency system that was first regulated at Bretton Woods. The idea was currencies should be "normalized" with each other, so they could follow two sets of rules. At home in Germany, for example, a Deutsche Mark had about the same purchasing power as the US dollar did in America. Domestic policy determined its national value in its own country.
However, in international trade, the dollar and Deutsche Mark floated against each other, to accurately reflect each nations relative prosperity, and allow economic adjustments to be made to strengthen weak currencies and weaken strong currencies, to maintain a balance.
But then, as it will, leverage entered the picture, at about the same time. This allowed everybody's bad economic habits to run wild without restraint. And the author pretty well explained that part.
But he missed the conclusion to the play. That is, that the US debt supported by Japan and China has reached a point where it cannot continue. The commercial markets, who deal in leverage a factor greater than even the US government, are sucking all the liquidity out of the market.
Japan, wisely, is no longer buying US Treasury bills, and in fact is starting to cash them in. Because of this, China has surpassed Japan as the largest debt holder, just in the last few days.
But China could and can only buy so much US debt. It cannot also buy the US debt the Japanese are selling as well.
And even the debt the Chinese were buying was paid for by selling goods to the US. If the US cannot buy Chinese products, China can't buy any US debt.
But with the downturn this causes in China, they can't even continue to keep US debt, much less buy more. They *have* to sell it to keep their own economy from collapse.
See the spiral? Not only won't the US be able to sell more debt, but more and more of its tax revenues will have to be used to pay off cashed T-bills. And because the US economy is in decline, tax revenues are going to be down hard.
In 2008, 9% of the US budget was in paying the interest on the debt. In 2009, it will be about 10% PLUS paying the much, much greater principal that Japan, and likely China, will get by cashing in their bills. So how much of the budget could that be? 25%? 35%?
And based on tax revenues that are from 10-20% lower next year.
Obama my try to spend his way out of it, because that is what was done in the past. But this time it won't work, because it can't work. There is nobody left to subsidize the US government spending spree.
Next he will try the equivalent of "printing money", which is called "monetizing the debt". But that is what was done in Weimar Germany, and in Zimbabwe today. Such money instantly inflates.
Jimmy Carter tried to do that, to inflate the US government out of its debt. But Paul Volcker, the chairman of the Fed, was then forced to raise the prime lending rate in a quid pro quo with Carter's money machine. This in effect neutralized Carter's scheme, and thought the economy was severely damaged, it prevented Carter from destroying it.
So as much as Obama wants to spend money like there is no tomorrow, there is not going to be any money for him to spend. So he and congress are going to be savaged, when they have to do things like slash Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
#2
How many automobiles were purchased through home equity lines of credit? I would say that number is currently someplace close to zero. Without the home equity loan, manufacturers of higher end vehicles, boats, and RVs are going to be hurting.
And just wait, it gets worse! In about 4 years from now the boomers born in 1946 begin to turn 65 and their homes will be going on the market as they cash in what equity they have as retirement savings.
But that was always expected, crosspatch, just as the stock market was going to fall when they started cashing in their retirement investments. And of course, that's why there was such intense speculation on real estate in desirable retirement areas such as southern Florida. It's just that the speculators got so far ahead of demand that it all crashed.
#7
Huge inventories are a very, very bad sign right now. Before the Great Depression, the massive surplus was in agricultural commodities. Even though the Dust Bowl, from 1930-1936, wiped out a huge amount of agricultural land, there was still, simultaneously, a huge glut of food, and widespread lack of food.
FDR created the Federal Surplus Relief Corporation, who immediately slaughtered over 6 million pigs, to stabilize pork prices. Then it alternated by reducing agricultural production on one hand, and spreading around the surplus food where it was needed, on the other.
Had the Dust Bowl not forced the migration of hundreds of thousands of farm families, the government would have had to. The remaining farms were highly regulated in land use, production, and prices. Farming was essentially nationalized.
Already happening, America is in for a big run of store closings and abandoned businesses. Already where I live the car dealership district is half empty, and retail stores are closing right, left and sideways.
#9
The death spiral started when Congress enacted legislation lowering requirements for home loans. The bailout sped up the process. Big O will throw the whole thing into a spin and we will auger in.
Otherwise, everything is peachy.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2008 20:20 Comments ||
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#10
How about public auctions of this surplus to find the natural price that the cars should really be sold for.
#11
I stand correct AK Paul. While we're on the subject of congresscritters, hows bout you lock em all up for a few years in a .... containment vessel on Fort Greely?
#13
Besoeker---We can put em on the Rat Islands out in the Aleutians. They can't go anywhere, and there are friends out there for 'em.
From Wiki:
The Rat Islands (Qax̂um tanangis[1] in Aleut) are a group of islands in the Aleutian Islands in southwest Alaska, between Buldir Island and the Near Islands group to its west, and Amchitka Pass and the Andreanof Islands group to its east, at about [show location on an interactive map] 51°46′N 178°34′E / 51.767, 178.567.
The largest islands in the group are, from west to east, Kiska, Little Kiska, Segula, Rat or Kryssei, Khvostof, Davidof, Little Sitkin, Amchitka, and Semisopochnoi. The total land area of the Rat Islands is 934.594 km² (360.849 sq mi). None of the islands are inhabited.
The name Rat Islands is the English translation of the name given to the islands by Captain Fyodor Petrovich Litke in 1827 when he visited the Aleutian Islands on a voyage around the world.
The Rat Islands are very earthquake-prone as they are located on the boundary of the Pacific and North American tectonic plates. In 1965, there was a major earthquake with the magnitude 8.7 in the Rat Islands.
Put them on Amchitka and they can find their way around from the glowing plutonium left over from the Cannikan u/g tests..
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2008 23:14 Comments ||
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US light sweet crude, plagued with the weight of the global economy, dropped by 56 cents to close at USD 54.39 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
good hit the miccle east in the pocket as much as possible, of course obama will send them AID
Posted by: chris ||
11/19/2008 1:13 Comments ||
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#2
Of course he will send them aid. Because they are starving and illiterate ... but very, very rich. Interesting how cash can't buy wisdom. That takes actual work.
#3
i'm from GA so i have seen my share of what you would think are inbreeds. You can't tech wisdom too inbreds, just how too sell pills and do prison time
Posted by: chris ||
11/19/2008 8:04 Comments ||
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#5
sorry i reread that myself i think that was after about the 12th dose of Nyquil
Posted by: chris ||
11/19/2008 13:13 Comments ||
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#6
Some of this has to be due to the rise in value of the US $ compared to other world currencies, excluding the yen. Would very much like to read an article describing that relationship.
U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson voiced opposition Tuesday to using part of the government's $700 billion financial rescue program to bail out the ailing auto industry.
But General Motors Corp. Chairman Rick Wagoner warned that the U.S. economy will suffer a "catastrophic collapse" if domestic automakers fail, and appealed anew for federal assistance.
Oh, it'll hurt, but not as bad as GM will. Honestly, the market cap for GM is about $2 billion this week. The price per share has fallen to $3 from $30 a year ago. They lose $1500 on every car they sell. They're saddled with one of the most ridiculous labor contracts out there. And we're supposed to loan these sooper-geniuses money? How exactly will they repay a loan? They'll spend the $25 billion like a hip hop artist goes through blow and then they'll come back for more.
"I believe that the auto companies fall outside of that purpose," Paulson said during a hearing at the House Financial Services Committee, referring to the financial rescue plan enacted in October.
Automaker executives, supported by congressional Democrats, say they need another $25 billion in emergency loans, in addition to the $25 billion already approved to specifically help the industry make more fuel-efficient cars.
Wagoner, testifying before the Senate Banking Committee, said in the event of an industry failure, 3 million jobs will be lost within the first year and government tax receipts will be $156 billion less over three years. "Such a level of economic devastation would far exceed the government support that our industry needs," he said. "This is about much more than just Detroit. It's about saving the U.S. economy from a catastrophic collapse."
Paulson said "there are other ways" to help the auto industry. Specifically, he urged Congress to modify the first $25 billion package to provide short-term financial relief to the industry. But he also said, "I think it would be not a good thing -- it would be something to be avoided having one of the auto companies fail, particularly during this period of time."
Paulson defended the government's decision to back away from its original plan to buy up troubled bank assets with the $700 billion rescue plan, formally called the Troubled Assets Relief Program or TARP. "There is no playbook for responding to turmoil we have never faced," he said. "We adjusted our strategy to reflect the facts of a severe market crisis."
"The purpose of the financial rescue legislation was to stabilize our financial system and to strengthen it. It is not a panacea for all our economic difficulties," Paulson added.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told the same House panel that the Treasury Department's capital infusion into banks will be important to restore confidence and bring credit markets back to normalcy. The central bank chief also said the government's efforts to stabilize the financial industry with TARP are beginning to produce favorable results. "These actions...appeared to stabilize the situation and to improve investor confidence in financial firms," he said. "There are some signs that credit markets, while still quite strained, are improving."
"Overall, credit conditions are still far from normal, with risk spreads remaining very elevated and banks reporting that they continued to tighten lending standards through October," Bernanke said. "It is imperative that all banking organizations and their regulators work together to ensure that the needs of creditworthy borrowers are met in a manner consistent with safety and soundness," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
So if GM goes belly up, whatever will happen to all the money good folks put down on the 2010 Volt? are they SOL or just get in line for whatever pennies on the dollar they can eke out of the carcass??
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2008 0:53 Comments ||
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#3
If they are going to decide to give the auto industry 50 billion, I say let one of them sink (prolly Chrysler) and give their employees (if they have any in the US anymore) a nice unemployment package that includes some schooling.
After that. Let's give the others a handful of billion to restructure (after they close up shop and send the union packing) and buy some good engineers from the competition.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
11/19/2008 2:15 Comments ||
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#4
I say don't give 'em a cent. Let them succeed or fail on their own, as the market dictates. It's called "capitalism", and it's one of the things that makes America great.
#5
Not that they deserve any, but the auto industry will see little sympathy from Hank Paulson. He made his dough through investment dealing with China set up by the other Henry and KAI.
In my opinion, even without an auto bailout, by adding another $1 or $2 trillion dollars to the National Debt, Paulson is just ensuring that interest rates will go up, real estate will crash, unemployment will soar, and foreign central banks will abandon the dollar.
The Web:
American International Group, Inc. (AIG), The Blackstone Group L. P. and Kissinger Associates Inc. announced the establishment of a new venture to provide financial advisory services to corporations seeking high-level independent strategic advice. [ ] The venture will operate globally and will take advantage of the existing relationships between the partners:
- AIG has an ownership interest in Blackstone and is an investor in several of Blackstone's private equity funds;
- AIG and Blackstone have a joint venture, specializing in restructuring and M&A advisory services in selected Asian countries;
- Henry Kissinger chairs both AIG's International Advisory Board and the advisory boards of several AIG-sponsored Infrastructure Funds.
#6
i agree with scooter. if you bail out every private buisness that is failing wouldn't that be kinda of nationalizing them as in socialism. And once they get it this year you just wait they will up production and they will get it every year.
Posted by: chris ||
11/19/2008 8:12 Comments ||
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#7
Let them go into bankruptcy.
If our silly legislative branch INSISTS on getting involved - BUY them, it's cheaper. Then pass a law dissolving the UAW contracts. Hire competant management and then take them public in a couple of years for a profit.
#8
The US taxpayer has already holding the bag for $25B the Feds committed to the Big 3 for retooling. The new fight is for another $25B loan for operations.
Posted by: ed ||
11/19/2008 8:36 Comments ||
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#9
Why don't they just pay the UAW to NOT make cars. It'll cost about the same. The DemocRATS will appease their constituency and we'll have fewer crappy cars.
#13
Maybe we could use this occasion to wring some concessions out the union. Tell 'em they have to give up a certain percentage of their pension but they get to keep their jobs. The percentage would be determined by whatever it takes to bring the cost of a car down to where it's actually competitive. Make 'em agree to something like that or else take a hike.
But no matter what you think of American cars or the unions, their current predicament has been exacerbated by the mortgage meltdown which was NOT the fault of the auto makers or the union. The reason they suddenly can't sell cars is that nobody can get a car loan and the reason for that is a little creep named Bawney Fwanks and some of his cohorts in Congress. Foreign cars aren't selling well either right now. Everybody's hurting. Make Bawney go to a UAW convention and explain to them how all of this came to be. I'd love to see the news coverage of that event. Then have Henry Paulson explain to them why, after he's given half a trillion dollars to his banker buddies, nobody can get a loan yet.
#14
The UAW won't even negotiate. Let them die and let someone else buy up the assets if that's what it takes. My tax money should not go towards making American cars less competetive and to create a safety hammock for union Workers playing hardball.
#15
It doesn't matter how much money is pumped into the Big 3 until compensation becomes more in line with their competitors. Unless workers and management take a 1/3 pay and benefits cut, they will continue to bleed to death. I think that even after life support is terminated and they are floating into the big white light, many of them will resist any cuts.
#17
You serious Pappy? And after the UAW prez says no concessions to save the Big 3. Let's see how cocky he is after Chapter 11 and the firing of 1/2 the workforce.
Posted by: ed ||
11/19/2008 14:48 Comments ||
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#18
Well, if they saw AIG keep throwing money at luxury retreats for their top execs who got them into the mess they are in, no wonder the UAW is acting like pigs at the trough and the chairmen traveled by private jets to beg for cash. (After all, they aren't asking for that much compared to them...)
#20
Screw the UAW and screw the current management that wouldn't force them to alter their contracts. This thing has to get flushed in order to start over (Chrysler should just stay dead). GM and Ford need to return as much smaller companies, with fewer brands so they can focus on building excellent cars at a competitive cost. Oh, and screw the UAW. Did I already say that?
#25
ed: Study Examines Short-Term Economic Impact of Worst-Case Scenarios for Contraction of Detroit Three
Predicts nearly 3 million jobs lost if the Big 3 go completely under.
Detroit won't go under in a bankruptcy proceeding any more than Delta Airlines or Continental Airlines went under. What will go under is management, UAW contracts, and 20-years-and-out lifetime pension and zero-cost health insurance plans. Detroit has competitive products. Their problem doesn't have anything to do with products - it's got to do with cost. Their costs are just too high, mainly because of the union contracts.
#26
Well, if they saw AIG keep throwing money at luxury retreats for their top execs who got them into the mess they are in, no wonder the UAW is acting like pigs at the trough and the chairmen traveled by private jets to beg for cash. (After all, they aren't asking for that much compared to them...)
Detroit executives have the same kind of thing. This is really an apples and oranges comparison? AIG rank-and-file are paid the market rate, whereas Detroit rank-and-file are paid the union rate. AIG is losing money because it made some bad bets. Detroit is losing money because union wages are too high.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
(SomaliNet) Following a series of defeats by Tutsi rebels in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo, Congolese president Joseph Kabila has replaced his military chief of staff. 
The Iranian parliament on Tuesday approved President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's nominee as interior minister by a thin margin, two weeks after it sacked his predecessor for lying about his credentials. 
