| | Posted by | Text | Date/Time | IP |
|---|
| 1 |
peggy |
LiberalHawk,
I honestly dont see why your post would end up in the sinkhole. But,while I respect Judaism greatly, I have to say that where I disagree with judaism is pretty much at the same points and for the same reasons i disagree with islam although I disagree with islam a lot more since it is based on a garbled understanding of Judaism. mo didnt study Judaism, he just picked up on what he liked about it and went from there. It shows.
I think Judaism's saving grace is two fold. One Judaism has no pretensions to universality in the sense that anyone but those born into Judaism are expected to follow Jewish law and Jews do not seek to turn non-Jews into Jews. The second is that Judaism is only properly the state religion in a limited geographic area. Jews do not have and never had any ambitions to make Judaism dominant throughout the world nor have they attempted to place the whole world under Jewish governance. Whatsmore, a gentile living in Israel would be subject to some kind of secular law as they are now in Israel and ideally they are only expected to follow a basic moral code such as do not murder, lie, cheat, steal etc. I know of no Jewish laws that bring gentiles under some form of Jewish religious code as in the dhimmi laws of islam where gentiles must live subject to Jews and face may onerous restrictions.
The problem with islam is that it tries and fails to imitate Judaism but on a universal scale undesired by Judaism. islam is a whole different animal than Judaism. I hope that you dont find that out the hard way someday. |
2005-02-03 11:19:33 AM |
12.148.137.226 |
| 2 |
peggy |
LiberalHawk,
I honestly dont see why your post would end up in the sinkhole. But,while I respect Judaism greatly, I have to say that where I disagree with judaism is pretty much at the same points and for the same reasons i disagree with islam although I disagree with islam a lot more since it is based on a garbled understanding of Judaism. mo didnt study Judaism, he just picked up on what he liked about it and went from there. It shows.
I think Judaism's saving grace is two fold. One Judaism has no pretensions to universality in the sense that anyone but those born into Judaism are expected to follow Jewish law and Jews do not seek to turn non-Jews into Jews. The second is that Judaism is only properly the state religion in a limited geographic area. Jews do not have and never had any ambitions to make Judaism dominant throughout the world nor have they attempted to place the whole world under Jewish governance. Whatsmore, a gentile living in Israel would be subject to some kind of secular law as they are now in Israel and ideally they are only expected to follow a basic moral code such as do not murder, lie, cheat, steal etc. I know of no Jewish laws that bring gentiles under some form of Jewish religious code as in the dhimmi laws of islam where gentiles must live subject to Jews and face may onerous restrictions.
The problem with islam is that it tries and fails to imitate Judaism but on a universal scale undesired by Judaism. islam is a whole different animal than Judaism. I hope that you dont find that out the hard way someday. |
2005-02-03 11:19:33 AM |
12.148.137.226 |
| 3 |
peggy |
LiberalHawk,
I honestly dont see why your post would end up in the sinkhole. But,while I respect Judaism greatly, I have to say that where I disagree with judaism is pretty much at the same points and for the same reasons i disagree with islam although I disagree with islam a lot more since it is based on a garbled understanding of Judaism. mo didnt study Judaism, he just picked up on what he liked about it and went from there. It shows.
I think Judaism's saving grace is two fold. One Judaism has no pretensions to universality in the sense that anyone but those born into Judaism are expected to follow Jewish law and Jews do not seek to turn non-Jews into Jews. The second is that Judaism is only properly the state religion in a limited geographic area. Jews do not have and never had any ambitions to make Judaism dominant throughout the world nor have they attempted to place the whole world under Jewish governance. Whatsmore, a gentile living in Israel would be subject to some kind of secular law as they are now in Israel and ideally they are only expected to follow a basic moral code such as do not murder, lie, cheat, steal etc. I know of no Jewish laws that bring gentiles under some form of Jewish religious code as in the dhimmi laws of islam where gentiles must live subject to Jews and face may onerous restrictions.
The problem with islam is that it tries and fails to imitate Judaism but on a universal scale undesired by Judaism. islam is a whole different animal than Judaism. I hope that you dont find that out the hard way someday. |
2005-02-03 11:18:49 AM |
12.148.137.226 |
| 4 |
peggy |
LiberalHawk,
I honestly dont see why your post would end up in the sinkhole. But,while I respect Judaism greatly, I have to say that where I disagree with judaism is pretty much at the same points and for the same reasons i disagree with islam although I disagree with islam a lot more since it is based on a garbled understanding of Judaism. mo didnt study Judaism, he just picked up on what he liked about it and went from there. It shows.
I think Judaism's saving grace is two fold. One Judaism has no pretensions to universality in the sense that anyone but those born into Judaism are expected to follow Jewish law and Jews do not seek to turn non-Jews into Jews. The second is that Judaism is only properly the state religion in a limited geographic area. Jews do not have and never had any ambitions to make Judaism dominant throughout the world nor have they attempted to place the whole world under Jewish governance. Whatsmore, a gentile living in Israel would be subject to some kind of secular law as they are now in Israel and ideally they are only expected to follow a basic moral code such as do not murder, lie, cheat, steal etc. I know of no Jewish laws that bring gentiles under some form of Jewish religious code as in the dhimmi laws of islam where gentiles must live subject to Jews and face may onerous restrictions.
The problem with islam is that it tries and fails to imitate Judaism but on a universal scale undesired by Judaism. islam is a whole different animal than Judaism. I hope that you dont find that out the hard way someday. |
2005-02-03 11:18:49 AM |
12.148.137.226 |
| 5 |
Liberalhawk |
Er, in Halacha, Jewish law, a gentiles word is not good in court,except when he is testifying on a matter of his technical expertise. A non-observant Jews word isnt good either. The notion being that your word is good cause youre afraid of the next worldy consequences of perjury, and you cant assume anyone but an observant jew believes in those consequences. A gentiles word IS good on matters of technical expertise, cause its assumed a craftsman wants to protect his reputation for competence,and so will testify truthfully about matters of his craft. This does not prevent Orthodox and Conservative Jews from living peacefully in secular societies. Again, it is a mistake to focus purely on texts and/or legal doctrines and ignore how groups are actually functioning today. While many Sufis ARE very conservative, they are NOT engaged in the kind of war that the Salafis are. In practical terms, they are the enemies OBL and the Salafis. Salafism may not be Islamic modernism, but it doesnt possess an ideology or a structure to fight Islamic modernism as Salafism does.
And religions dont get replaced as a general rule in the modern world. They get diluted, forgotten, etc. Like Christianity in western Europe.
|
2005-02-03 9:30:23 AM |
204.152.45.249 |
| 6 |
Liberalhawk |
Er, in Halacha, Jewish law, a gentiles word is not good in court,except when he is testifying on a matter of his technical expertise. A non-observant Jews word isnt good either. The notion being that your word is good cause youre afraid of the next worldy consequences of perjury, and you cant assume anyone but an observant jew believes in those consequences. A gentiles word IS good on matters of technical expertise, cause its assumed a craftsman wants to protect his reputation for competence,and so will testify truthfully about matters of his craft. This does not prevent Orthodox and Conservative Jews from living peacefully in secular societies. Again, it is a mistake to focus purely on texts and/or legal doctrines and ignore how groups are actually functioning today. While many Sufis ARE very conservative, they are NOT engaged in the kind of war that the Salafis are. In practical terms, they are the enemies OBL and the Salafis. Salafism may not be Islamic modernism, but it doesnt possess an ideology or a structure to fight Islamic modernism as Salafism does.
And religions dont get replaced as a general rule in the modern world. They get diluted, forgotten, etc. Like Christianity in western Europe.
|
2005-02-03 9:30:23 AM |
204.152.45.249 |
| 7 |
Gluper Angaiting8683 |
All I want for my birthday is for bush to die. |
2005-02-03 12:51:52 AM |
24.215.229.7 |