Article

2004-02-27

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-02-27 2:25:11 PM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Lol! Your in-line comments leave little remaining snarkiness! Since I don't drink, however, you guys (those who do appreciate the good stuff) can keep the beer!

This is a win-win for the US & Germany, regardless of the office-holders. As you pointed out, it was Shroeder (and I'd add Fisher, though you seem to like him, sorry!) who manipulated the issues for political gain - I would guess that there are few difference between the avg German and the avg American. As was pointed out by Greenspan yesterday, with no political downside I must add, Social Security will bite the US due to the Baby Boomer Bubble... so we both have entitlement issues. That said, I wouldn't trade places with Germany, though! The days and years ahead will make the differences there far more stark - and it will be much harder to solve Germany's. Good luck with that one!

Posted by .com 2004-2-27 4:23:01 PM|| 2004-2-27 4:23:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 I don't "like" Fischer but he's done a better job than Schroeder. He does believe in good transatlantic relations. He wasn't happy about Schroeder's radical stance in the Iraq issue (Fischer would never have opposed the war openly, he would have found a way not to obstruct it and send a few doctors and ambulances instead of troops). It was Schroeder's ignorance in foreign policy issues that could be exploited by the French (Mitterand or Chirac could never have pulled this off with Kohl) and because Schroeder gave Fischer no diplomatic wiggle space this led to the fall out.
Fischer was one of the staunchest defenders of the U.S. decision to go into Afghanistan (wasn't easy to convince his Green party then). And if you listen to what Fischer said at the Munich Security Conference of 2004, it will remind you very much of that "Greater Plan for the Middle East" that the U.S. is proposing.

Yes I think Americans and Germans share way to much common ground to be divided by stupid politicians.

Anyway, that visit benefitted both: Bush can show that he didn't alienate one of America's most important allies (and the 3rd biggest economic power in the world), and Schroeder will return and tell his party: See, I didn't give away my principles.

Bottom line: The French want to be rivals of the U.S. (and drag the EU into it), the Germans will prefer to be partners. In the end, German realism will carry the day. And lets face it, the French know this. That explains the gloomyness in Paris.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-2-27 4:52:26 PM|| 2004-2-27 4:52:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Hmmm... Interesting info on Fisher. I'm very slow to accept him, primarily due to his past, but also his Green Party politics - to me they're loonies of the same, if not even more virulent, ilk as in the US.

I'll google for Fischer's comments and see if I can find an English translation. Thx!

I completely agree with your observations regards the future relationship between Germany and the US - and Phrawnce's situation. I hope you guys drop Shroeder in the next round! We have a great future together, IMHO. And if Prez Putty will stop pandering to his own ego, who knows what the US & Germany could accomplish with the Russians and their Siberian resources? I keep waiting for this obviously advantageous marriage of interests and assets to occur...

Re: Phrawnce - That last round of staged anti-US rhetoric, thinly and disingenuously disguised as outrage over US anti-Phrench rhetoric, cemented their position in the cellar of US interests for years to come. The Phrench public had better get a grip on reality soon - before they have a complete meltdown - economically, socially, politically -- sheesh! What's NOT at risk in their current self-administered coup de grace?

Thx!

Posted by .com 2004-2-27 5:20:47 PM|| 2004-2-27 5:20:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Here you go

The Greens have come along way in 20 years. Ok the leftist faction still exists but hell... even the CDU has made first moves on them.
Fischer has always been the staunchest "realo" of the Greens. In foreign policy they (sometimes) have views far more acceptable than those of the SPD (ok, not the lefties of course).

Posted by True German Ally 2004-2-27 5:31:18 PM|| 2004-2-27 5:31:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Hmmm. There is much here to consider - it'll take time to absorb and understand precisely where he falls in the continuum of responding to the threat of the jihadis. I already see more caution than I can accept. Perhaps if he'd spent a year or two on the ground in Saudi...

Heh, this will be good. I'll shoe-horn some comments about it to you in a future post - staying on-topic in RB rates as suspicious behavior, anyway! Thanks!

Posted by .com 2004-2-27 6:03:45 PM|| 2004-2-27 6:03:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 1) the war is NOT over, boys. It's just shifted gears.

2) Somebody beat up that Fischer twerp, wouldja?

Posted by mojo 2004-2-27 6:31:47 PM|| 2004-2-27 6:31:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Poloticians - gotta love and hate em!!!
IMHO afterliving 7 years in Germany- Most Germans
are closer to American reaction to the Politicos than the news portrays. Germans as a whole know that Saddamneeded to go - just that their wimp Schroeder doesn't have the balls for it. The phrench can just piss off- let Fisher make some decisions and get Germany doing as the German public decides, notthe politico whipping dogs.
German public knows what needsto be done, just need to correctthe wrong choice in a Schroeder
election and replace him with someone with a backbone - kind of like the refreshing replacement ofClinton with Bush!

Posted by Weatherman 2004-2-27 10:26:59 PM|| 2004-2-27 10:26:59 PM|| Front Page Top

00:33 Lucky
00:27 Lucky
00:16 Anonymous2U
23:51 Mike Sylwester
23:16 Lu Baihu
22:41 Russell
22:40 Weatherman
22:26 Weatherman
22:17 dataman1
22:15 A Jackson
22:14 Frank G
22:13 dataman1
22:12 Weatherman
22:07 dataman1
21:56 Les Nessman
21:54 dataman1
21:51 anymouse
21:49 CrazyFool
21:39 Alaska Paul
21:24 Alaska Paul
21:15 Alaska Paul
20:56 .com
20:56 Tom
20:50 Aris Katsaris