Article

2005-08-29 Syria-Lebanon-Iran

Wahhabi opposition to Iraqi constitution

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Posted by Fred 2005-08-29 00:00|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Ah, Kurdistan. What - no port on the Med? I think a slice off the top of Syria, a chunk of NW Iran for that matter, and a healthy slice off the bottom of Turkey sound quite nice and should be added to the new Kurdistan. Rather overdue, don't you agree? And I must say that all of these entities have thoroughly earned such detailed attention to their borders... in spades. Anything worth doing, is worth doing well, I always say. The timing seems about right, as well.

Posted by .com 2005-08-29 03:52|| 2005-08-29 03:52|| Front Page Top

#2 Here's a map (click to enlarge)

.

Quite some slice of real estate there .com!

Also check out the place in Uzbekistan, just north of Dasoguz. They must have a death wish or something... ;)

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-08-29 04:38|| 2005-08-29 04:38|| Front Page Top

#3 Tony - try this map, instead...

Posted by .com 2005-08-29 05:22|| 2005-08-29 05:22|| Front Page Top

#4 Wow! - much clearer. It would leave the Kurds over in the east a little exposed though - unless Iran was to lose some land just south of the Caspian sea.

Turkey would lose a fair amount of territory, but as you say, they showed their true colours in 2002-2003 and don't deserve too much sympathy.

It's a devilish plan ;)

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-08-29 06:08|| 2005-08-29 06:08|| Front Page Top

#5 Heh. Many possibilities will present themselves over the next 1-2 yrs, methinks. On behalf of the oh so patient Kurds, I hope this time is their time.

Posted by .com 2005-08-29 06:21|| 2005-08-29 06:21|| Front Page Top

#6 I'll defer to you two, more expert opinions on this area of the world. However, after hearing how well the Kurds are making along, their economies humming along, fairly low violence, etc.

Posted by BA 2005-08-29 07:55|| 2005-08-29 07:55|| Front Page Top

#7 I've always liked Kurdistan, but I have a hard time not seeing the Shia swallowed up in Iran.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-08-29 08:16|| 2005-08-29 08:16|| Front Page Top

#8 Yes. and that is the biggest danger of a breakup of Iraq.

When the Brits drew those boundaries, they were playing tribal politics as well as internal politics within their administrative officialdom. Still, there was then and still is value in that buffer between the Sauds and the Persians.

Posted by lotp 2005-08-29 08:45|| 2005-08-29 08:45|| Front Page Top

#9 Not to mention the Turks.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-08-29 15:14|| 2005-08-29 15:14|| Front Page Top

#10 The Kurds have proved loyal, lets not create a new enemy by siding with the turncoat Turks or Iran or Syria on any border issues with the Kurds.

Slicing up the region for a Kurdish state seems like it is a little unrealistic right now. I don't think they will get anything outside of Iraq in any official moves.

What's the deal with us siding with the Turks against the PKK? I know they are a radical group, but shouldn't we keep them sidelined at least. I'd hate to see us have to destroy good fighters.

I guess the PUK is still there after we clean up some PKK though. We're probabl;y just using this as an excuse to cull some bad apples and set an example for the Kurds ie... We like you, but if you step, we'll put you in your place. Enjoy what we are allowing you to have and don't ask for too much at one time.

EP

Posted by ElvisHasLeftTheBuilding 2005-08-29 18:11|| 2005-08-29 18:11|| Front Page Top

#11 Hmmm...

The danger, voiced above, of the Shi'a running into the arms of the Mad Mullahs strike me as rather glib. I'd like to see some evidence, other than the Qom-trained clerics and the Jafaari-type pols...

Observations...

There is an ancient antipathy / enmity between the Arabs and Persians.

These particular Arabs were in a war for almost a decade with the Persians - and that was only one generation, ago.

The Pols who are Iran-friendly were connected folks, or in exile somewhere, and didn't have to serve.

Same for the clerics - they didn't serve.

Arab loyalties begin at home... family, clan, tribe, imam, flavor of Islam.

It was estimated to have killed over 20% of a generation of men - mainly Shi'a, of course, cuz Saddam used the Shi'a as fodder. So every family lost people or knew families who did.

And it is well within living memory. Painfully fresh to that generation - the middle-aged Iraqi.

Even the Sunni Iraqis I knew in Saudi hated the Persians.

Okay from this point...
For a cleric to say that the Persians are our buddies, we should ally with them... A cleric's call to overlook all of this is as likely to be ignored as almost anything a cleric could say to a Muzzy of the same flavor.

Jafaari and Shitstani may make nummy-nummy sounds with Qom. but that doesn't mean anyone will follow them into an arrangement that would have them make nice with the Persions, much less accept some perceived subordinate role to them.

Just thinking out loud. As you were.

Posted by .com 2005-08-29 22:33|| 2005-08-29 22:33|| Front Page Top

#12 One other observation, while I'm in Arab-think mode: The Mad Mullahs never did dick to help the Shi'a during Saddam's reign, other than shelter the imams. When the war came, they killed them in droves.

You may reasonably ask, "What could they have done?"

My response: I told I was in Arab-think mode. Don't be stupid.

Thank you. As you were.

Posted by .com 2005-08-29 22:40|| 2005-08-29 22:40|| Front Page Top

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