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2004-12-06 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Andrea In Memory of Pat Tillman 2004-12-06 10:14|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 This falls under the category of "don't you have anything better to do, Coll?" My take: the writer is so insecure about his own lack of manhood that he became obsessed with proving to the world that the Pat Tillmans of the world are the weak - while he, the brave reporter who poured through Pentagon document after Pentagon document, is the real hero warrior. Good luck in your quest for testosterone, little girly man.

With efforts spent on stories like this, no wonder their circulation numbers are so tanked.

Posted by 2b 2004-12-06 10:28:56 AM|| 2004-12-06 10:28:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I disagree, 2b. Pat Tillman gave his life to protect us all, and the Pentagon should have been forthright from the very beginning as to the circumstances of Pat's death.

Everyone knows that bad things happen in war, and hiding the truth was disrespectful to Pat, to his family, and to the American people.

Posted by Seafarious 2004-12-06 10:37:14 AM|| 2004-12-06 10:37:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 True. Be that as it may, what was gained by all of the effort that went into this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is nothing more than Steve Coll pissing on Pat Tillman's grave in order to make himself feel bigger than a hero, who fought and died for his country.

Posted by 2b 2004-12-06 10:46:47 AM|| 2004-12-06 10:46:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 IIRC the Pentagon declared it a friendly fire incident fairly quickly. This article is just flogging a memory to try and devalue the "hero" status Tillman rightfully deserved for giving up all he had to serve our country. That acclaim just enrages the left and the WaPost social circle to no end.

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-06 10:48:03 AM|| 2004-12-06 10:48:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 well put Frank. If guys like Steve Coll keep up the good work, their numbers will continue to decline until they finally collapse allowing us all to be spared from their misery.

Posted by 2b 2004-12-06 10:53:23 AM|| 2004-12-06 10:53:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 God bless Pat Tillman and his family.

Posted by tex 2004-12-06 11:02:30 AM|| 2004-12-06 11:02:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 The whole situation truly sucks. Blue on blue fratricide is one of the commander's worst nightmares, we practice hard to prevent it but it's the shitty part of war. Shitty things happen to good people no matter what it seems. We must try to minimize it as best we can. Pat Tillman was a special breed in the modern synical lights of the superficial professional sports world. He was a real role model for youngsters and will be sorely missed. One Pat Tillman is worth more then any Ron Artest, Terrell Owens, or Mike Tyson any day. An inspirational young man indeed.

Posted by Phiter Glolung1555 (aka Jarhead) 2004-12-06 11:30:28 AM|| 2004-12-06 11:30:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 In Phoenix, the local "civic leaders" decided to throw a great party in honor of Tillman, a great big photo-op to show how sensitive and caring they were, and how much they adored this "hero". According to Tillman's family and friends, he always despised such people.
Tillman's youngest brother, Rich, wore a rumpled white T-shirt, no jacket, no tie, no collar, and immediately swore into the microphone. He hadn't written anything, he said, and with the starkest honesty, he asked mourners to hold their spiritual bromides.
"Pat isn't with God," he said. "He's f---ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f---ing dead."
This statement was greeted with shock and dismay by those who hoped to capitalize on Tillman's death, but they have since forgotten it, focusing instead on still trying to squeeze every dime and ounce of publicity from the deal.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-12-06 11:41:53 AM|| 2004-12-06 11:41:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Frank G is correct. The Army admitted Mr. Tillman died as a result of "blue on blue" VERY soon after the fact (within 48 hours if memory serves). I started to read the WAPO piece yesterday and wasn't able to finish same. Why? Because the bile being regurgiatated by the WAPO writer was so evident. The WAPO piece doesn't seek to hail Mr. Tillman, it seeks to undermine the mission. It seeks to undermine our national resolve to win. Given the chance, I'd spit in the face of the WAPO writer Steve Coll.

Posted by Mark Z. 2004-12-06 11:44:54 AM|| 2004-12-06 11:44:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Moose, you'll have to provide a source for crap like that.

I agree that this story is full of bullshit and bile, signifying nothing more than the continued treason of our so-called press. When I heard this story on the radio this morning, they said it took "five weeks" for the "real story" to come out. My reaction was "that's no time at all" -- and it isn't, considering the circumstances and the nature of the event.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-12-06 12:05:12 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-12-06 12:05:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 RC: Moose, you'll have to provide a source for crap like that.

Here.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-06 12:42:45 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-06 12:42:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Zhang, If you or others are using the SF Chronicle as a record of source for this claim, you're wasting everyone's time. We watch the Chronicle for bad reporting, false reporting and bogus claims all the time. They never fail to provide us with grist for the mill. The SF Chronicle is a biased a rag as you'll find in the United States. The columnist provides no back up or substantiation for her claims

Posted by ChronWatchAdvisor 2004-12-06 12:53:39 PM|| [http://www.chronwatch.com] 2004-12-06 12:53:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 He was a soldier who disdained self-aggrandizement. His memory has been trashed by pygmies for whom self-aggrandizement is a way of life, including the idiots at WaPo who are playing "gotcha!" when the Pentagon never made any effort to conceal the fact that friendly fired killed Tillman. Good for Tillman's brother for calling them out.

Posted by lex 2004-12-06 12:56:02 PM|| 2004-12-06 12:56:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 I wrote this piece to announce to the world and to record for posterity what a small and hateful little man I am.

Posted by Steve Coll 2004-12-06 12:58:55 PM|| 2004-12-06 12:58:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I have known a lot of guys like Pat Tillman. To put it in more ordinary terms, "He was a real guy." He liked sports and cars and Guiness, not the ballet and Sartre and white wine. He could be at home camping, or hunting, or even at a Monster Truck Rally. He was a Red State guy. And after giving his life in patriotic service to his country, a bunch of Blue State fops decide to use his good name for their self-aggrandizement, and maybe to make a few bucks. I understand exactly what his brother was really saying to them: "up yours, you jackals."

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-12-06 1:39:34 PM|| 2004-12-06 1:39:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 "The U.S. military has confronted a series of prominent friendly-fire cases in recent years, in part because hair-trigger technology and increasingly lethal remote-fire weapons can quickly turn relatively small mistakes into deadly tragedies. Yet the military's justice system has few consistent guidelines for such cases, according to specialists in Army law. Decision-making about how to mete out justice rests with individual unit commanders who often work in secret, acting as both investigators and judges. Their judgments can vary widely from case to case."
What a case of BS. The blue on blue killing is an aspect of the chaos of the battlefield. You try to eliminate or minimize it, but it does happen. It is not an immediate subject of judicial investigation. The WaPo hack is building a straw man arguement. These events are studied like a bridge failure for problems in tactial execution, doctrine, training and potential technological applications to minimize the events. It is only looked in a judicial manner when in the normal review process, it appears that some act of commission or dereliction of duty of duty as occured which resulted in the casualties.
If you want some background on blue on blue casualties try here

Posted by Don 2004-12-06 3:26:26 PM|| 2004-12-06 3:26:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 RC: Zhang, If you or others are using the SF Chronicle as a record of source for this claim, you're wasting everyone's time.

From the New York Daily News: At one point, Richard burst forth with a stream-of-consciousness tribute, insisting Pat did not believe in religion, that he was not with God, that he was just dead. A war veteran standing not far from the stage bristled, while others cheered. Richard, the former quarterback-turned-aspiring comedian, looked more like an Elvis-wannabe, but despite the funky jeans and the cigarette dangling from his mouth, he, too, was clearly a Tillman: an iconoclast rebel daring to challenge the norm, oblivious to convention, slightly crazy.

Richard Tillman is apparently the kid who did not make it to the NFL (or boot camp), instead choosing to go into show business. (Need I say more?). Hey, every family has to have a black sheep. Think of the guy as Clark Griswold's brother-in-law.

Look at it this way - people took time out of their day to pay their respects. And Richard Tillman insulted the heck out of them. If not for the fact that this was his brother's funeral, he should have been beaten to within an inch of his self-absorbed life. This was his deceased brother's occasion, and he chose to use it to grandstand and make a spectacle of himself.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-06 3:52:03 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-06 3:52:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 You are CORRECT! I was pressed for time today and could not respond in a manner such as you
of many pen names 1- #17 I agree with your
responses and after thoughts. But WHere are we going? Look at the cost; loss of lives, family members left behind, and the billions spent on this war **##!!

Andrea Jackson

Posted by andrea 2004-12-06 5:02:26 PM|| 2004-12-06 5:02:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Screw Coll, we all knew what Tillman stood for: honor and valor. The scribes can wave the bloody shirt all they want. In this day and age, when baseball players hit drugged up homers, Tillman is the image I want my three boys to see. He is someone who put country ahead of riches, and no two-bit scribe can take that away.

Posted by Capt America 2004-12-06 5:03:23 PM|| 2004-12-06 5:03:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Yes, I agree with what you are saying about Bravery and Valor. I can't comment on Tillmans character- only read about him, when he was killed and I think PEOPLE did a story on him prior to going into the armed forces...about his potential football career and how he was rolling the dice by joining the service! Had he only known his fate.

Andrea

Posted by andrea 2004-12-06 5:07:58 PM|| 2004-12-06 5:07:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Had he only known his fate.

I think he would have gone anyway. He wanted his life to be more than just football, and it was.

Posted by Seafarious 2004-12-06 5:14:14 PM|| 2004-12-06 5:14:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the Gate:
``To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his gods

The Lays of Ancient Rome - Thomas Macaulay

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-06 5:21:59 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-06 5:21:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 You are correct. I do remember reading that about Pat. See the latest Army OPens New probe of Tillman's Afghan Death. Reuters.

Andrea

Posted by andrea 2004-12-06 6:31:01 PM|| 2004-12-06 6:31:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 ZF, that's spot on.

Posted by Matt 2004-12-06 8:14:34 PM|| 2004-12-06 8:14:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Thanks ZF #22 & #17.

Posted by ex-lib 2004-12-06 11:06:30 PM|| 2004-12-06 11:06:30 PM|| Front Page Top

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