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#1 Don't have time for this.
Gotta plan the retreat from Africa.
Posted by Skidmark 2012-12-25 01:08||
#2 Better late than never.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-12-25 06:08||
#3 I don't think the admin is aiming toward a complete withdrawal.
The plan is, to have about 10k troops at a base near Kabul to keep the Taliban from overrunning that part of the country (at least until Nov 2016), to coordinate drone strikes and, if possible, to support ops of the Afghan army.
Posted by lord garth 2012-12-25 09:40||
#4 It seldom works Lord G.
Paris, Berlin, and Saigon to name but a few examples.
"On the evening of 23 April, General Weidling took command of the city and that same night moved the troops of the 56th Panzer Corps into Berlin. The divisions were immediately committed at crucial points in the battle lines. Remnants of the 20th Panzer Grenadier Division went into action in the southwest, Panzer Division "Muenchenberg" in the southeast, SS
Panzer Grenadier Division "Nordland" and remnants of SS Panzer Grenadier Division "Nederland" in the east, and the 18th Panzer Grenadier Division in the northern and southern parts of the Zoo sector. This indication of the distribution of
forces can serve only as a general guide, since the position and composition of the units changed daily and even hourly.
The Panzer corps and the SS units under Mohnke now carried the burden of the stiffening resistance to the uninterrupted Russian attacks, which were concentrated in the southeast, east, and north. In the west, Berlin was attacked by comparatively weaker forces, but they were still far superior to the defenders. The forces advancing from the south behind the 1st Ukrainian Army Group had to divert elements against the Ninth Army, Potsdam, and later the Twelfth Army.
In the course of heavy fighting, the German troops were pushed back to the city circuit railroad and even beyond it. By 30 April only the government sector, the immediate vicinity of the Tiergarten and a strip extending westward from the Zoo sector to the Havel River were still held by the defenders. The Russians employed a planned and methodical procedure
of attack. Bombing and heavy artillery and mortar fire preceded every fresh assault. The infantry was supported by tanks advancing singly or in group formation and by engineer troops with flame-throwers and demolition equipment. Advances
were made by small sectors - street by street and house by house. The infantry took every opportunity to infiltrate through back yards, cellar passageways, subway tunnels, and sewers. In this way many of the defense positions were
stormed from behind or below."
Posted by Besoeker 2012-12-25 09:58||
#5 Don't forget the all-important 'Serving as Targets.' as specified in the ROE.
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-12-25 09:59||
#6 Flexible mobile defenses, such as what the Germans employed against the Soviets between 1942 and 1945, cease to work when your back is against a wall.
#7 Saigon is a reasonable comparison, but the Taliban with some Pakastani support is weaker than the North Vietnamese army combined with the Viet Cong with stronger support from China and Russia. So, even though the Karzai government is weaker and even more incompetent and corrupt than the South Vietnamese government, they may have a better chance to hold with some American support because their opposition isn't as strong.
Berlin isn't a match at all. The German position had been hopeless for years given the huge allied advantage in production capability (USA!), manpower (Soviets), and with England as an unsinkable aircraft carrier.
As Badanov says, mobile defense no longer has the the room to succeed when your back is against the wall. However, it even has trouble working, even with a genius like Manstein in command, when the commander-in-chief insists on micro-managing, preventing quick decision-making based on local conditions (which had been a hallmark of Prussian success over the centuries), and holding lines to the point of encirclement.
Posted by Odysseus 2012-12-25 13:41||
#8 Thankless bastards prefer life under the talibunnies' boot heel anyway.
Posted by bigjim-CA 2012-12-25 14:55||
#10 Probably right Bigjim. Proves that you cannot impose freedom on a nation collection of tribes.
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-12-25 15:04||
#11 The Taliban in charge of Pakistan's Govt. = espec its NucProgs.
All thats missing is a de facto local "Muslim Brotherhood" chapter for AFPAK to counter the "militant/militarist" Taliban + Qaeda.
AYMAN, I'M A'LOOKIN AT YOU.
QUANDRY OF 2013 = EVEN IFF A US-NATO PULLOUT, THE RISE OF A OWG ISLAMIST NUCLEAR CALIPHATE, SHIA ANDOR SUNNI, WILL BE ALL BUT UNSTOPPABLE NO MATTER HOW PCORRECT = MEDIA, PR WHITE-WASHY THE US-NATO/ALLIES WANNA DESCRIBE IT.
Iff the US does nothing + pulls out, the Jihad expands + goes "legally" Nuclear - iff the US still wages a GWOT e.g. makes war on Iran, the Jihad expands + still goes Nuclear [violently] save in response to alleged US "aggressionism/
belligerence/imperialism" agz Islam.
lest we fergit, as the "NATIONALIST" US IS THE "TIP OF THE SPEAR" IN ESTABLISHING "POST/
EXTRA-NATIONALIST = "GLOBALIST" OWG-NWO, THE US IS GOING TO GIVING UP IMPORTANT SOVEREIGN NATIONAL POWERS-N-AUTHORITY TO THE FUTURE NAU, E.G. WHERE THE US MAY NOT BE ABLE TO WAGE WAR [GWOT] ANYMORE WIDOUT THE CONSENT OF THE NAU + HIGHER OWG POLITIES.
The NAU-centric US, whom by its own NIC may not be a "Sole" Superpower, or even a Superpower, by 2030, will need the permission of Mexico, Canada, + Greenland to go to war includ fighting the Hard Boyz. Washington, DC will be suborned to a NAU Leadership which may or may not be led by an American [Obama "Birther" Controversy].
ADVANTAGE: NUCLEAR RADICAL ISLAM = GOVTS + HARD BOYZ.
And thus, Virgina, we learn once again why God wanted the US Marines + Airborne to invade Greenland.
TO PARAPH GEN. MACARTHUR [Gen. Curtis Lemay over at FREEREPUBLIC this AM] > "TIMIDITY IN WAR IS IMBECILIC ... THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR VICTORY"!
'Tis fine to be pro-Peace + anti-War in Peacetime, but its absolutely stupid + moronic to be Anti-Imperialist, anti-Destruction/
Violence, + anti-Victory once war is declared or made.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-12-25 20:58||