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2007-12-28 India-Pakistan

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Posted by tu3031 2007-12-28 12:02|| || Front Page|| [11 views ] Top

#1 Da plot thickens.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-12-28 12:22|| 2007-12-28 12:22|| Front Page Top

#2 ...Bhutto was killed when she tried to duck back into the vehicle...
I see. So it was her own fault-- an accident?

Posted by GK 2007-12-28 12:34|| 2007-12-28 12:34|| Front Page Top

#3 The Magic Sunroof Lever Theory!
I call dibs on that!

Posted by tu3031 2007-12-28 12:42|| 2007-12-28 12:42|| Front Page Top

#4 A REPORT sent by the Rawalpindi General Hospital to the Health Department of the Punjab provincial government said all efforts by its doctors to revive Ms Bhutto failed and she was declared dead exactly 41 minutes after she was brought at its emergency department at 5.35pm with open wounds on her left temporal bone from which brain matter was exuding.

It said the PPP leader was not breathing at the time and her pulse and blood pressure were not recordable.

The report said immediate resuscitation (process) was started and she was taken to the operation theatre where the same was done by a team of doctors headed by Prof Musaddiq Khan, principal of the Rawalpindi Medical College.

Left antrolateral thoracotomy for open cardiac massage was performed, it said and added: In spite of all the possible measures she could not be revived and (was) declared dead at 1816 (6.16pm) hours.

The report said a post-mortem examination of Ms Bhuttos body was not carried out at the hospital because the district administration and police had not requested the hospital authorities (for this).

Posted by john frum 2007-12-28 13:10|| 2007-12-28 13:10|| Front Page Top

#5 The report said a post-mortem examination of Ms Bhuttos body was not carried out at the hospital because the district administration and police had not requested the hospital authorities (for this).

Nope. That won't be necessary. Move it along, nothing to see here...
Wow. Maybe the firemen should've hit her with the hose for a few minutes too. Just to make sure.

Posted by tu3031 2007-12-28 13:16|| 2007-12-28 13:16|| Front Page Top

#6 If the attack had occurred in Daley Plaza in downtown Chicago, and Ms. Bhutto had been rushed to Cook County Hospital (home of one of the very best urban trauma units in the country), she'd ...

... be dead today.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-12-28 13:18|| 2007-12-28 13:18|| Front Page Top

#7 I cannot see what possible difference it makes whether there was a shooter/bomber, a shooter and a bomber or just a bomber. Yet the Pak government is fixated on there not being a shooter...

Posted by Excalibur 2007-12-28 13:28|| 2007-12-28 13:28|| Front Page Top

#8 If the attack had occurred in Daley Plaza in downtown Chicago, and Ms. Bhutto had been rushed to Cook County Hospital (home of one of the very best urban trauma units in the country), she'd ...

... be dead today.

If the attack had taken place in Israel she would be resurrected by now.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-12-28 13:37|| 2007-12-28 13:37|| Front Page Top

#9 "Actually, there was no bomber either. There was a gust of wind and it also enhanced the output of a fire-breathing street performer. It was all unfortunate tragic accident."

"What dead people? Can you show me one? Firemen washing out the evidence? No, you've go that all wrong, it was raining at the time."

Posted by twobyfour 2007-12-28 13:39|| 2007-12-28 13:39|| Front Page Top

#10 One of the corollaries of the official thesis is that the islamists are whitewashed: they didn't kill her. They just indirectly caused her death. How convenient.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-12-28 13:48|| 2007-12-28 13:48|| Front Page Top

#11 they might wanna get rid of that shooter scenario in case she was killed by a sniper toorrow but we all know that the Taliban can't shoot straight

Posted by sinse 2007-12-28 13:50|| 2007-12-28 13:50|| Front Page Top

#12 Dealey Plaza

And the many parallels to JFK's assassination are creepy. Don't get me wrong, I'm no JFK conspiracy theorist (go read Bugliosi's Reclaiming History) but the talk of bullet holes and brain matter and speculation about multiple shooters is all there, as is the hysterical inflation of a mere mortal into a departed demi-god(ess) Sheesh...

Posted by M. Murcek">M. Murcek 2007-12-28 13:53|| 2007-12-28 13:53|| Front Page Top

#13 I cannot see what possible difference it makes whether there was a shooter/bomber, a shooter and a bomber or just a bomber. Yet the Pak government is fixated on there not being a shooter.

Because the problem of the weapon has interesting implications: -Unless you are at two or thre yards it is very difficult to hit someone in the head with a pistol when you have only a couple tenths of second to take aim and that even for a good shooter not a foam at the month jihadi. Did I mention that she was in a car so it was probably a moving target? So if Benazir was shot with a pistol it means her body guards allowed the murderer to nearly have the muzzle of his pistol on her head.

A rifle at close range is too bulky and slow and the escort should have shot the killer. Also participants at the meeting were supposed to have been searched by the police.

A sniper's shot at long range, with sniper taking plenty of time for aiming is a possibility but the police was supposed to have placed its own men at best firing locations...

Posted by JFM">JFM 2007-12-28 14:11|| 2007-12-28 14:11|| Front Page Top

#14 Renegade Commando Units

This part is interesting:

The attack yesterday at Rawalpindi bore the hallmarks of a sophisticated military operation. At first, Bhutto's rally was hit by a suicide bomb that turned out to be a decoy. According to press reports and a situation report of the incident relayed to The New York Sun by an American intelligence officer, Bhutto's armored limousine was shot by multiple snipers whose armor-piercing bullets penetrated the vehicle, hitting the former premier five times in the head, chest, and neck. Two of the snipers then detonated themselves shortly after the shooting, according to the situation report, while being pursued by local police. A separate attack was thwarted at the local hospital where Bhutto possibly would have been revived had she survived the initial shooting. . . . A working theory, according to this American source, is that Al Qaeda or affiliated jihadist groups had effectively suborned at least one unit of Pakistan's Special Services Group, the country's equivalent of Britain's elite SAS commandos. . . . "They just killed the most protected politician in the whole country," this source said. "We really don't know a lot at this point, but the first thing that is happening is we are asking the Pakistani military to account for every black team with special operations capabilities."

Posted by 3dc 2007-12-28 14:11|| 2007-12-28 14:11|| Front Page Top

#15 The water is nicely muddied now.

Posted by Grunter 2007-12-28 14:39|| 2007-12-28 14:39|| Front Page Top

#16 Well they did wash down the crime scene.

Posted by 3dc 2007-12-28 14:48|| 2007-12-28 14:48|| Front Page Top

#17 I am struck by the similarity of the 2 attacks on Bhutto and the attacks on Musharaf a couple of years ago.

Posted by phil_b 2007-12-28 14:51|| 2007-12-28 14:51|| Front Page Top

#18 Here's a video showing a guy on the back of her vehical shooting point blank 3 times.....

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2007-12-28 14:57|| 2007-12-28 14:57|| Front Page Top

#19 Someone in the car with her says she was shot 2 times.

Posted by phil_b 2007-12-28 15:10|| 2007-12-28 15:10|| Front Page Top

#20 Hokay, thanks YS. Looks like a gun (at most) 4' - 5' away...that'll do the trick

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-12-28 15:10|| 2007-12-28 15:10|| Front Page Top

#21 Toldja you shouldn't drive around with a loaded sunroof lever...

Posted by Seafarious 2007-12-28 15:15|| 2007-12-28 15:15|| Front Page Top

#22 YS, I hear two shots on that video. I also see a shadowy hand with what (to me) looks like a pistol from about five feet, left of the vehicle and slightly below the roof-line.

Don't hear three, just two. But that's just me.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-12-28 15:25|| 2007-12-28 15:25|| Front Page Top

#23 Yeah Steve - I thought I saw the same thing too but didnt really couldnt make it out. Either way , I'm suprised this tape isn't getting more play to counterdict what the gov officals are saying. This whole thing reaks - too many things are already contaminated or gone to piece it together. Doubt we'll ever know for sure....

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2007-12-28 15:57|| 2007-12-28 15:57|| Front Page Top

#24 PS - My lord! Could I misspell any more words in my post above? Thats really embarrassing!

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2007-12-28 16:02|| 2007-12-28 16:02|| Front Page Top

#25 Ironically, we humans have an instinct within that can make us sense and feel who's who. Definitely, Miss Bhutto was a threat to her rivals, a stumbling boulder in their path. Therefore, she knew who was to be responsible for her downfall.

Posted by Alistaire Spaigum7294">Alistaire Spaigum7294 2007-12-28 16:14|| 2007-12-28 16:14|| Front Page Top

#26 Did anyone get pictures of the grassy knoll?

Posted by Abu Uluque6305 2007-12-28 16:32|| 2007-12-28 16:32|| Front Page Top

#27

I am 400% sure that it was the sunroof.

I would like to thank GHQ Rawalpindi for providing me with continued employment.

Posted by john frum 2007-12-28 16:45|| 2007-12-28 16:45|| Front Page Top

#28 #24 Yosemite Sam.

Theoretically, you could. ;-)

Posted by twobyfour 2007-12-28 17:27|| 2007-12-28 17:27|| Front Page Top

#29 see also HAARETZ > ANALYSIS: THE ASSASSINATION OF BENAZIR BHUTTO; + YNETNEWS OPINION > A TRIUMPH FOR RADICALS.

RIAN > AL QAEDA CLAIMS RESPONSIBILITY FOR BENAZIR BHUTTO MURDER Egyptian AQ Officio quoted as inferring that BHUTTO was killed for suppor the USA agenda and being agz Islamists.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-28 19:41|| 2007-12-28 19:41|| Front Page Top

#30 9mm "Contributing Causes"?

Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-12-28 20:43|| 2007-12-28 20:43|| Front Page Top

#31 Long War Journal with more details
The Pakistani government has directly implicated the commander of newly created Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan, or Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan. Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema claimed the government intercepted a phone conversation between none other than Baitullah Mehsud, the leader of the Pakistani Taliban, and Maulvi Sahib, one of Mehsud's underlings.

The Telegraph has the transcript of the alleged recording. Baitullah congratulates Sahib, who explains the attack was carried out by three of their own operatives.

Maulvi Sahib: Congratulations, I just got back during the night.

Baitullah Mehsud: Congratulations to you, were they our men?

Maulvi Sahib: Yes they were ours.

Baitullah Mehsud: Who were they?

Maulvi Sahib: There was Saeed, there was Bilal from Badar and Ikramullah.

Baitullah Mehsud: The three of them did it?

Maulvi Sahib: Ikramullah and Bilal did it.

Baitullah Mehsud: Then congratulations.

Yesterday, Mustafa Abu al Yazid, al Qaeda's commander in Afghanistan, boasted to a Pakistani journalist that al Qaeda was behind the attack. "We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat [the] mujahadeen," Yazid said in a phone call to Syed Saleem Shahzad.

The Pakistan government's claim that Baitullah Mehsud is behind the attack and al Qaeda's claim of credit for the strike are not mutually exclusive. The Bhutto assassination also was very likely carried out with support from inside the police, military, and intelligence agencies.

Some members of the US civilian and military intelligence communities have stopped making distinctions between the two groups long ago. These analysts refer to the various jihadi groups as Al Qaeda and Allied Movements, or AQAM. These various groups include the "Pakistani Taliban," the "Neo-Taliban," Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM), al Qaeda central, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Jaish-e-Mohammned, Lashkar-e-Taiba (which is now Jamaat-ud-Dawa), Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, and a host of domestic Pakistani terror groups. The distinctions between the groups in Pakistan have become meaningless as they share the same ideology, goals, training camps, tactics and recruiting bases. Their command structures often intermesh. Members of the Taliban sit on al Qaedas various shuras, or councils.

Al Qaeda and Allied Movements is analogous to what the Indians call the International Islamic Front - the umbrella group of jihadi movements banded together by Osama bin Laden in the 1998 fatwa declaring war on the West. The International Islamic Front includes groups such as Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh, and Harakat ul-Mujahidin. Several other groups remained unnamed to provide cover for their activities.

One interesting note about the phone intercept between Baitullah and Sahib is the physical intelligence on the whereabouts of Baitullah which the Pakistani military failed to act on. Sahib later askes Baitullah where he is so they can meet. Baitullah responses, "I am at Makeen (town in South Waziristan tribal region), come over, I am at Anwar Shah's house." Pakistani intelligence had direct knowledge of Baitullah Mehsud's whereabouts, but failed to mount a raid to capture or kill him.

The Pakistani military either lacks the will or the capacity to mount such a raid in South Waziristan. The government negotiated a treaty with Baitullah in March of 2006 which essentially ceded the territory to the Taliban. The Taliban then set up a government, began collecting taxes, recruited fighters for jihad in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and launched a campaign of murder and intimidation against their enemies. The Taliban and al Qaeda operate at least 29 terror camps in South and neighboring North Waziristan alone.

Baitullah's Taliban beat back a limited military offensive late last summer, and kidnapped over 300 Pakistani soldiers during clashes. He has also been implicated in a series of bombings throughout Pakistan in 2007.

Posted by 3dc 2007-12-28 21:18|| 2007-12-28 21:18|| Front Page Top

23:50 Barbara Skolaut
23:34 Frank G
23:34 3dc
23:31 rjschwarz
23:28 3dc
23:24 3dc
23:07 Broadhead6
23:01 Broadhead6
22:56 trailing wife
22:49 GK
22:44 Redneck Jim
22:40 Redneck Jim
22:38 Grunter
22:35 newc
22:34 twobyfour
22:28 newc
22:15 Vinegar Phans8565
22:14 Seafarious
22:11 Old Patriot
22:09 Chuck Simmins
22:01 Barbara Skolaut
21:51 Redneck Jim
21:50 3dc
21:38 trailing wife