Article

2003-03-28 Europe

German MP warns of "humiliating defeat" for coalition forces

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-03-28 12:18 pm|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Wonder if they understand the message 1/2 a dozen cellulose encased 2000 pounders(alla "Clear and Presnt Danger)means?

Posted by raptor 2003-03-29 07:05:54|| 2003-03-29 07:05:54|| Front Page Top

#2 True German Ally - glad to see you back in the fray - voice of reason even when I may disgree with you, unlike Murat. I find hope for the future in your take on this particular leader. I also find Fred's assessment accurate and I hope we live up to the challenge. These bastards understand power, and we need to show the same. No mercy to those who would undermine the effort bought with Allied blood and fortune. They understand that, and will stop when we take the battle to them. Gooooddd Moorrrnniinngg Dammmasssccuuss

Posted by Frank G 3/28/2003 10:07:56 PM|| 3/28/2003 10:07:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 I think he's warning of the CONSEQUENCES of a "humiliating defeat", rather than the expectation of such a defeat. I don't think he has a lot to worry about. I also think it's about time to take the gloves off. Maybe we DO need to operate a "scorched earth" policy in Baghdad, just to quiet EVERYONE down a bit. Hate to see that many civilian casualties, but it would end the war in one big hurry. It will probably be the ONLY thing that would shut up the "Arab street". Seeing the kind of damage we COULD do would bring it home that they MAY be the next one targeted, if they don't act like civilized human beings.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-03-28 12:43:23|| 2003-03-28 12:43:23|| Front Page Top

#4 I think he is warning the Social Democrats that it is unwise to oppose us, given that war has actually begun - the consequences of American withdrawal for Germany will be worse than those of American victory. His point is that we may forgive them after a victory, but will never forget their perfidy if we are defeated. I think the point is academic (because we'll win), but worth making anyway to counter the knee jerk anti-Americanism of the Social Democrats.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-03-28 13:48:14|| 2003-03-28 13:48:14|| Front Page Top

#5 Schaeuble is one of the wisest and most balanced transatlantist politician Germany has. He always warned against Schroeder's foolish stance. He was actually seen as Germany's next chancellor but got embroiled in Kohl's soft money dealings.
While most Germans still oppose the war they understand that now that it's on, a swift US victory is paramount. Well not all people may think that way but my impression is that many German, while being against the war, are willing to help in the reconstruction. And only clueless leftists think it's a good thing that the war hasn't gone exactly as planned.
I'm not so sure about the French. They'd rather see America's humiliation than acknowledging that they screwed it up.
And as someone who survived the bombing of Dresden I'm ashamed that so many people try to compare Baghdad with Dresden. As I see it the Americans have made every effort NOT to hurt Iraqi civilians (which is next to impossible). They now face a foe who plays against any rules. What you see at the moment is an army of a civilized nation trying to combat terrorist thugs who have no respect for their own people. Problems are bound to occur this way. I don't think that the Pentagon underestimated the "will of Iraqis to resist", it may have underestimated the absolute evilness of the thugs who fight for their own survival and would kill a million of their own people without blinking.
Iraqis may not be able to see Americans as "liberators" right now. They have never experienced what freedom and decent behavior is. You can't win people's hearts while you are still fighting. When the Iraqi regime finally crumbles Iraqis will wake up from their nightmare. It will be time to win their hearts then. Over 40 percent of the Iraqi population are children. The best people to start with.
Now just win that damn war. I'm with you. I hope more of my people would be. Maybe they need a wake up call as well. I hope they don't need sarin or VX to do that.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-03-28 15:08:12|| 2003-03-28 15:08:12|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm not too convinced that we're going to win those hearts and minds even when it's all over. The thought of a major Arab regime that's stable, as opposed to stagnant, with individual liberties recognized for its citizens, is anathema to the Middle East status quo bloc. There are going to be all sorts of efforts against it - from Iran to impose rule by ayatollahs, from Syria to bring back the Baath, from the Saudis to open madrassahs on every corner, and from the Paleos to export intifada. Attempt to impose freedom of religion and you'll see all of them taking the multilateral gas pipe.

Even if we end up with Sammy and Sons, Inc., dangling from lamp posts, it's still going to be hard.

Posted by Fred 2003-03-28 16:15:54|| 2003-03-28 16:15:54|| Front Page Top

#7 True German Ally - glad to see you back in the fray - voice of reason even when I may disgree with you, unlike Murat. I find hope for the future in your take on this particular leader. I also find Fred's assessment accurate and I hope we live up to the challenge. These bastards understand power, and we need to show the same. No mercy to those who would undermine the effort bought with Allied blood and fortune. They understand that, and will stop when we take the battle to them. Gooooddd Moorrrnniinngg Dammmasssccuuss

Posted by Frank G 2003-03-28 22:07:56|| 2003-03-28 22:07:56|| Front Page Top

06:07 Eleanor
12:00 True American
08:24 raptor
18:09 Phate
08:11 raptor
08:09 raptor
07:56 raptor
07:38 raptor
02:38 anon1
02:00 Brew
01:59 Dishman
01:48 Brew
01:44 Brew
01:31 mojo
01:29 Brew
01:23 mojo
01:17 Paolo
01:12 Paolo
01:11 Kalle (kafir forever)
01:01 Joe
00:53 someone
00:53 Kalle (kafir forever)
00:49 Reed
23:56 Christopher Johnson