Article

2003-04-16 Iraq

The war is over. Now these questions must be answered

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Posted by Murat 2003-04-16 05:28 am|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 If everyone ignores Murat like we did that troll Anonomo yesterday, I'll bet he goes away.

Posted by 11A5S 2003-04-16 10:25:57|| 2003-04-16 10:25:57|| Front Page Top

#2 U.S. forces have found numerous delivery systems. Artillery shells and warheads for missiles. All of these were supposed to be destroyed. The actual WMD's will be harder to find and would have been easier for the Iraq's to either give away (the real danger) or dispose of. This is kinda like finding a Gun but no bullets on a person that is not supposed to have weapons. The gun is useless without the bullets so is he now innocent?

Posted by Anonymous 2003-04-16 11:07:56|| 2003-04-16 11:07:56|| Front Page Top

#3 1) If Saddam didn't have any WMD why didn't he fully cooperate with the inspectors? Why did he risk the war he knew he would lose?
2) Maybe that shock and awe wasn't that useless? Maybe the command structure was annihilated to a point that no one who could have used them would have dared to (or could not). Maybe Saddam (if he was still in charge) knew that using WMD against well protected US troops was rather pointless but would have been met with overwhelming response?
3) Where is Saddam? Gone. That's all that really matters. Although seeing him dangling upside down from a Baghdad lamppost would have been a nice picture,
4) Do Iraqis feel liberated? They certainly don't miss Saddam. They will have to work hard though to gain true freedom.
5) Chalabi: If the Iraqis don't want him there isn't much the Pentagon can do about it. That's democracy. Or will be.
6) North Korea? That country is a historic anachronism. Not without danger but as the saying goes: dogs that bark too much don't bite. Or is that "eat bark"?
7) Geneva Conventions? There has been negligence indeed (the museum and hospital looting are saddening), but the conventions apply to willful violations. The Hague conventions don't apply as there was still fighting going on in the area. Al Mansur is not a violation of the conventions if the US had good reason to believe that Saddam and other Iraqi leaders would be taken out. You could even argue that the succesful bombing would have minimized further civilian casualties. There is no such thing as "risk-free" bombing and the conventions don't demand this either.
8) Rebuilding is not a job done in a few weeeks, but years. There will be enough to do for many companies.
9) Maybe the legality of war (by UN standards) was less important than the necesity of the war. Kosovo was not authorized by the Security Council either (nobody asked because Russia would have vetoed). The war is going to end decades of suffering for the Iraqi people. The world watched the humanitarian catastrophe in Iraq for years. I don't think the US will plant evidence. Sooner or later somebody would talk. That no WMD have been found yet rather indicates that the US does everything as correctly as possible. Once the Iraqi scientists talk things will come out. To believe that Saddam destroyed all his weapons in 1991 before the UN came in and didn't bother to collect the evidence for this distruction is ridiculous.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-04-16 06:39:07|| 2003-04-16 06:39:07|| Front Page Top

#4 TGA, why put so much effort in countering the troll?

Murat, if we changed Hussein to Occlan (sp.), would your response be different? Just remember: we control the supplies and logistics for your military, I do hope that you know what consequences that has.

Posted by Brian 2003-04-16 07:04:16|| 2003-04-16 07:04:16|| Front Page Top

#5 Murat, you need to read the following:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-041403A

You live in the fantasy world this author is referring to. I don't pretend the U.S. is right in everything it has done, but your views are beyond twisted. I assume you are an adult. How can your critical reasoning be so severely impaired? You're not an Islamist, are you? By the way, Murat, what became of the story about the U.S. soldiers killing ten civilians in Mosul? I haven't seen it anywhere else? The Iraqi minister of information is sorely missed by many of us who watched him make a complete ass of himself with his wild-eyed version of the "truth." You could get your own televised commentary gig and fill the void.

Posted by Joe 2003-04-16 07:12:55|| 2003-04-16 07:12:55|| Front Page Top

#6 Anyway, here's the key passage, Murat. Get your forehead up off the carpet long enough to give it a read.

"It is one of the most difficult things for us to understand about those who are in the grips of a collective fantasy-how even the most powerful, the most irrefutable evidence will be ignored and suppressed in order to keep the fantasy intact.

And this is the greatest danger confronting the American mission to bring sanity to the Arab world-it may not want it"

Posted by Joe 2003-04-16 07:16:53|| 2003-04-16 07:16:53|| Front Page Top

#7 Is 'sanity' only a Judeo-Christian concept?

dorf

Posted by Anonymous 2003-04-16 07:24:03|| 2003-04-16 07:24:03|| Front Page Top

#8 "Christian Good, Muslim Bad." That's not what he's saying (I don't think). Sanity is not a Judeo-Christian concept, but insanity is a Muslim scourge and has been for years.

Posted by Joe 2003-04-16 07:49:48|| 2003-04-16 07:49:48|| Front Page Top

#9 murat: cypriots armenians kurds... kurdistan!

Also: allies and supporting nations SHOULD get the lion's share of the contracts. What planet are you from? They did the hard work and took the political risk. They get the reward. Since when do you reward people who give no help and who actively hinder what you are trying to do?

If you run a business, do you give contracts to those who in return help you/treat you fairly? Or do you stab your friends in the back, giving contracts to those who have tried to hurt you just so you can pretend hypocritically to have the high moral ground to impress idiots who have abandoned all rational sense of right and wrong?

I hope france, germany, russia, turkey, syria get NO contracts. Their involvement in post-war reconstruction should consist of donating money, end of story.

Posted by anon1 2003-04-16 08:05:24|| 2003-04-16 08:05:24|| Front Page Top

#10 I saw these questions today on the first page of the Independent so I thought I could try to answer them. Give Murat credit that he didn't quote the Mirror again. Questions are legitimate, answers as well.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-04-16 08:08:42|| 2003-04-16 08:08:42|| Front Page Top

#11 "Where are the weapons of mass destruction?"

Give them time.The U.N had 12years and 4 months.They couldn't find the bio/chem labs.
Also ever heard of circumstaintial evidence?
You know like buired mobile bio/chem labs.
Why were they buired,Murat?
Artillary shells with traces found at the filler ports.
Mustard and sarin found in the Euprates river.
Guess I have to keep kicking a dead horse.
The primary difference between pesticide and chem weapons is concentration and exposure time.If you don't believe me read the warning labels on the back of a can of bug spray,a better source would be the MSDS(Material saftey Data Sheet).

"if President Saddam had such weapons, why didn't he use them?"

They didn't have time.
The Iraqi military couldn't do a thing without orders from Saddam and sons.They had all the bridges+the oil fields wired with explosive,but managed to blow 1 bridge and 9 wells.Why,because they didn't have time.

"Where is Saddam?"
We don't have Osama yet,but we are still hunting and he is still running.Mansur,they are still digging through the rubble.

"Do Iraqi's feel liberated?"

Dancing in the streets(about the only city not rejoicing is Tikrit,you know Saddam's home town for obvious reasons),tossing flowers at Marines and Soldiers,tearing down Saddam's statues.Had the first vote of the Interm Council yesterday,Shias hold protests(first in 35 years).Why the protests?They want sole control of the government(Thier words not ours).
I would say they feel liberated.

"Is Chalabi just a crooked US stooge?"

Don't know,however I do think state should be the ones to help the Iraqi's build thier government.Haven't heard anybody tell the Iraqi's this is your new leader,just the opposite they keep telling the Iraqis(and the world)it is an Iraqi decision.

"Is North Korea next on the american hitlist?"

Not needed,they are backing-up even as we speak.Also those NKors who are not in the military or work for the government have mostly grass and leaves to eat.

"Did the allies stick to the Geneva conventions?"

Yes,but mistakes were made.Most of the looting was aginst government buildings and Saddam&Co.palaces.Iraqi police now on patrol order being restored(but of course that has escaped your limited point of view).One of the mistakes made was the U.S.military should have immediatelly placed gaurds at the hospitals and Iraqi Antiquities Mueseum(who would have thought they would have looted hospitals full of the sick and injured,I certainly didn't).

Are the rebuilding contracts going to White House cronies?
How come most of the complaints are coming from France,Germany,Russia(AoW)?You know the same ones who sold sanction busting arms and equipment.Ever heard of the children's book"The Little Red Hen".
In America we keep a very close eye on the buisness dealings of our politicians.Does Turkey?

Was the war legal?

Was Syria,France,German,Russian sanction busting legal?
Is Turkey's oppresion and genocide legal?
("Depends on who you ask").
There were other reasons for this war beside WMD.
Like getting that homicidil,genocidal maniac and son's boot off the back of the Iraqis.
Saddam's accussed support of terrorists.That is now absolutly proven.
You know,like Ansar Islam,Abu Nidal,Abu Abbas.
$25,000 reward for Paleostinian suicide bombers.
Terror training camps,with attendant documentation.
1 of those camps had an airliner shell for training purposes.
Since 9/11 America has publiclly stated we are going to get the terrorists,and put a stop to those who help,hide,support,and finance them.

Posted by raptor 2003-04-16 08:16:13|| 2003-04-16 08:16:13|| Front Page Top

#12 TGA, I welcome your comments and appreciate the effort you put behind them. I think it is worthwhile to take the time to refute Murat's claims. It's too easy and tempting just to dismiss any news we don't agree with, and it's good to see you dismantle Murat point-by-point.

Posted by Dar 2003-04-16 08:18:05|| 2003-04-16 08:18:05|| Front Page Top

#13 The war is over? What, did Murat's imam issue a fatwa declaring it so?

Posted by CrazyCanuck 2003-04-16 08:26:17|| 2003-04-16 08:26:17|| Front Page Top

#14 Saddam's carbuncle is unmistakable? Just how would such a feature be impossible to replicate given the state of plastic surgery?

Posted by Craig 2003-04-16 08:52:42|| 2003-04-16 08:52:42|| Front Page Top

#15 hey murat...

Does the fact that we can't currently find saddam mean that he never existed?

Posted by ----------<<<<- 2003-04-16 09:48:21|| 2003-04-16 09:48:21|| Front Page Top

#16 If "heroic Saladin" fled Baghdad he was vowing to defend with his life against the "American Mongols" like the coward and thug he always was, maybe some Arabs start to think about the bragging dictators they currently have. Maybe.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-04-16 09:57:32|| 2003-04-16 09:57:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Why do you folks waste time responding to this guy? He is having a wonderful time pulling chains and clearly has no interest in any sort of dialog. You might be much happier just ignoring him.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-04-16 11:38:02|| 2003-04-16 11:38:02|| Front Page Top

#18 No,No,No,I like shooting holes I Murat's logic/lies.

Posted by raptor 2003-04-16 13:29:47|| 2003-04-16 13:29:47|| Front Page Top

#19 Fatwa?..........someone say fatwa? Don't ask me. I'm suffering from Fatwa Fatigue (TM).
-al-Aska Paul

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-04-16 19:57:46|| 2003-04-16 19:57:46|| Front Page Top

12:20 Diana
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