Article

2003-11-12 Arabia

Our Soddy Friends: "Slavery is a part of Islam"

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Posted by OldSpook 2003-11-12 2:29:28 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It would be interesting to hear from the Louis Farrakhan on this.

Posted by Ben 2003-11-12 4:32:40 AM|| 2003-11-12 4:32:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 My take on this.

Posted by Ptah 2003-11-12 5:33:10 AM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-11-12 5:33:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The institution of slavery was historically vital to the spreading of Islam. Since the Islamic children of slaves who convert to Islam can't be made slaves and non Islamic children of slaves remain slaves, it created an enormous incentive for conversion to Islam.

Posted by mhw 2003-11-12 7:58:36 AM|| 2003-11-12 7:58:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The institution of slavery was historically vital to the spreading of Islam. Since the Islamic children of slaves who convert to Islam can't be made slaves and non Islamic children of slaves remain slaves, it created an enormous incentive for conversion to Islam.

Posted by mhw 2003-11-12 8:00:18 AM|| 2003-11-12 8:00:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 mhw -- I've occasionally wondered if the European views of slavery and servitude as "Christianizing" weren't adapted from Islamic practices. Not saying that pre-Islamic Europe was a paradise, just that the peculiar practices in the Americas and Africa, particularly those of the Spanish, might have had a touch of Moorish influence.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-11-12 8:30:54 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-11-12 8:30:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 "is against Arab women marrying non- Arab Muslims "

This may go over in saudi, but i suspect he'd be considered a heretic in Iran, Pakland, Indonesia, etc.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-11-12 9:32:59 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:32:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Robert,

Could be something to this. Recent historic research has been examining the close working relationships between the European slave traders and the Islamic slave traders in Africa. There is enough on this to make a very good PBS special except that the subject isn't PC.

Posted by mhw 2003-11-12 9:44:21 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:44:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 It's ironic, because Islam IS slavery.

Posted by ISLAM SUCKS 2003-11-12 10:32:57 AM|| 2003-11-12 10:32:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Someone kindly tell Rip Van Winkle that it is 2003, not 1095.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-12 10:41:03 AM|| 2003-11-12 10:41:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 liberalhawk.
For one thing the Iranians are Shiite and those not practicing Wahabism in SA are Sunni.
Also the Egyptians, if I am not mistaken, announced last week that they are not Arabs.
This soup is too much for me to swallow.

Posted by Barry 2003-11-12 11:40:15 AM|| 2003-11-12 11:40:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 mhw.
Maybe this link, if you have not already seen this, will prove interesting

FOREIGN DESK | March 10, 2003, Monday
Africa's Lost Tribe Discovers American Way

By RACHEL L. SWARNS (NYT) 1777 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 1

ABSTRACT - Somali Bantu refugees living in Kenya, or about 12,000 people, are being prepared for resettlement in US over next two years as one of largest refugee groups to receive blanket permission for resettlement since mid-1990's; are members of Africa's lost tribe--stolen from shores of Mozambique, Malawi and Tanzania and carried on Arab slave ships to Somalia two centuries ago; were enslaved and persecuted until Somali civil war scattered them to refugee camps in 1990's; were often denied access to education and jobs in Somalia; are mostly illiterate and almost completely untouched by modern life; are taking classes to prepare them for new lives in US; map; photos (M)

Posted by Barry 2003-11-12 11:45:57 AM|| 2003-11-12 11:45:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 "their blood and money are free for the taking buy true muslims." Boy thats a mouthfull. Could it be so easy? Hey Hasan, you might want to act preemptively on ol' Al Fawsan on that beheading thing as he means it. Just pay some hit cash to a Somalli beggar, It's cool as it's allowed to be done by any "true muslim", whatever that means. Ramadama ding dong daddy.

Posted by Lucky 2003-11-12 12:05:38 PM|| 2003-11-12 12:05:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Robert Crawford

Charles V of Spain forbade slavery in 1542. And now let's talk about the doctrine of predestination in Calvinism and how it makes easy to put it at the service of slavery and apartheid: "savages" are obviously abandonned by God otherwise they would be civilized, AFAIK the pro-apartheid South African churches were those of Calvinist obedience<.

Posted by JFM 2003-11-12 3:09:46 PM|| 2003-11-12 3:09:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 A world cannot exist part free and part slave. I am for eradicationg slavery and if slavery is part of Islam that means...

Posted by JFM 2003-11-12 3:11:38 PM|| 2003-11-12 3:11:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Another point is that the Western nations have never looked favorably on sexual relations with slaves (in ancient Rome it was punished by death): this has protected slaves against rape. On Islam they are recommended and many Arabic writings delight on describing how after taking a city "the pride of their women was shattered".

Posted by JFM 2003-11-12 3:19:23 PM|| 2003-11-12 3:19:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 To follow up on mhw's comments. Slavery in the West consisted mostly of putting Blacks on ships and sending them to the Americas to cut sugar cane, cotton, etc. In other words, for economic reasons.

From my readings over the years, many slaves in Arab-Muslim lands were the unfortunate folks who got captured in war. In other words, not for economic reasons. Those who were black, however, and converted or whose children became Muslim, pretty much kept their stations in life since their "stained" backgrounds made them lepers in the eyes of the Arab ruling classes. One can make the argument that they got double-whammied (former slave AND black)in their new lives. Think why the Alouite dynasty of Morocco always seems to have dark skinned folks working for the royals there. I can't link any photos to prove it, but the books I've read about that country seem to be frequently illustrated with engravings done by 18th and 19th century Euros showing black folks to be the ones fanning the sultan.

Hope al-Jubeir gets asked about Al-Fawzan the next time he's on the Sunday talking-head shows.

Posted by Michael 2003-11-12 3:21:34 PM|| 2003-11-12 3:21:34 PM|| Front Page Top

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