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2003-11-12 Korea
U.S. Forces Launch Operation in Baghdad
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Posted by Steve 2003-11-12 2:14:01 PM|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 From Fox, CENTCOM says US forces raided warehouse on south side of Baghdad that was being used as staging area for attacks. Seems like the warehouse ain't there no more.
Posted by Steve  2003-11-12 2:17:24 PM||   2003-11-12 2:17:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Behold the power of Old Patriots suggestions
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2003-11-12 2:21:19 PM||   2003-11-12 2:21:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Also note this LA Times article (reg. req.)

MAMUDIYAH, Iraq — U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police arrived at the sprawling three-family farmhouse just after 4 p.m. with orders for the 15 or so people still living there: Grab what you can in the next 30 minutes, and then leave. Your house is about to be bombed.

Two hours later on Monday, a pair of F-16 warplanes screamed overhead and dropped 1,000-pound laser-guided armaments on the boxy, concrete structure. The bombs left a deep crater strewn with smashed furniture, broken concrete and other debris. The lawn, shed and date trees around it remained intact.

U.S. military authorities said the bombing of the Najim family house was a prime example of a firm new response to those who plant roadside bombs, hide weapons or carry out ambushes that kill or harm American soldiers, and they want the people in these parts to know about it. It was the third fixed-wing bombing in a week across Iraq, pointing up a re-escalation of the war by the U.S. in response to heightened insurgency.

"The message is this: If you shoot at an American or a coalition force member, you are going to be killed or you are going to be captured, and if we trace somebody back to a specific safe house, we are going to destroy that facility," said Maj. Lou Zeisman, a paratroop officer of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division deployed here from Fayetteville, N.C. "We are not going to take these continuous attacks."


More at link. They found these moaks with the goods, arrested them, and destroyed the location.
Posted by Chuck Simmins  2003-11-12 2:32:02 PM|| [http://blog.simmins.org]  2003-11-12 2:32:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I wonder if the AL-JAZEERA offices were included....
Posted by CrazyFool  2003-11-12 2:32:27 PM||   2003-11-12 2:32:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 ....more please.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2003-11-12 2:39:59 PM||   2003-11-12 2:39:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 They found these moaks with the goods, arrested them...

I just don't understand the rules they're operating under... why are these guys still breathing? Why are they giving time to grab anything before they march them out of the house and destroy it & all its contents?

The bad guys are getting the message that as long as they're not caught in the act of firing, they will just get arrested and taken to the slammer. The rules ought to be simple -- if you're caught with an RPG or IED materials, summary execution. If you're traced to a house, it's "everyone out, NOW", destroy everything, take the kids and let them grow up with someone civilized, etc.

I know it's easy for me to say, but it seems as though these troops think that they're in a "police action", when it's really a widescale meeting engagement with the old Iraqi Army, Fedayeen, and jihadis.

War's not over, guys...
Posted by snellenr  2003-11-12 2:48:32 PM||   2003-11-12 2:48:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Looks like we're borrowing another page from the Israeli handbook on how to deal with Terrorists.

Can't wait to hear from the "Apologists".
Posted by Daniel King 2003-11-12 3:09:12 PM||   2003-11-12 3:09:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 It would seem to me that cutting some sniper teams loose would make some sense. Carrying an RPG or AK? Bam! Digging holes on the side of the road for a mine? Bam! Let the boys do what needs to be done. I also think the troops are entirely too roadbound. What the hell is GPS for if you can't move around in the desert? Stay off the roads and sneak up on the assholes! Afterall, if you ain't on the road, you can't be a sitting duck and be 'ambushed'. Stupid officers probably set up a schedule for the patrols to follow, just like security guards. Fools.
Posted by Anonymous 2003-11-12 3:14:23 PM||   2003-11-12 3:14:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Why are they giving time to grab anything before they march them out of the house and destroy it & all its contents?

Exactly my sentiment. For too long, our forces seemed to be exhibiting "sensitivity" (how I HATE that word). It's kill or be killed, and quite frankly, it's way past time to get on with the serious business of maximizing enemy casualties.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-12 3:20:18 PM||   2003-11-12 3:20:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Because we're not Tikrit Thugs, guys. The good guys have to do things that the bad guys wouldn't.

Just wondering. Since we attacked that wharehouse in the middle of the night, do you suppose we waited until it had a few visitors before attacking? Wharehouse districts often need pest control.
Posted by Chuck Simmins  2003-11-12 4:09:43 PM|| [http://blog.simmins.org]  2003-11-12 4:09:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 "The rules ought to be simple -- if you're caught with an RPG or IED materials, summary execution. "

three problems
1. No chance to interogate
2. possibility of innocents caught with such materials
3. Likely to piss off the fence sitters. Who probably make up a very large part of the Sunni arab population.

This is the test guys. Do we have the stomach for a hearts and minds game, where we have to be more restrained than the thugs, while we watch our people get killed? If not we might as well declare some friendly Iraqi president now, hand out weapons to the Kurds and Shia, and leave right away. Theyll be effective at going after the thugs, our troops can come home, and if it means that the new regime isnt really democractic, well thats inevitable anyway if we play this way.

If we're really trying to reshape the region, we cant play like the thugs. And if we're not, we might as well get out.
Posted by liberalhawk 2003-11-12 4:47:25 PM||   2003-11-12 4:47:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 ...then we might as well get out now. This is going to get worse, not better. Unless we do some major pounding. Anybody see the CIA report out today?
Posted by Rafael 2003-11-12 5:03:39 PM||   2003-11-12 5:03:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 The sentence was death in Germany thru 47 for having weapons. But actually I agree with you LiberalHawk that killing isn't the answer. I believe it would be just as effective to arrest all men of fighting age in the area. We could then question and identify everybody. But I would also include with this a Zero-Tolerance policy against mobs. I would allow "NO" public gatherings and that if groups do not disperse they will ALL BE ARRESTED. Anybody fighting back and not following orders will dealt with, and yes I do mean shooting them. Order needs to be established and respect for authority "i.e. the gun" must be enforced. As for the theory this will create more fighters why has this never been the case when Saddam was in charge. Why didn't people rise up against Saddam while his cronies were throwing soldiers off the top of buildings? Fear works.
Posted by Patrick 2003-11-12 5:17:26 PM||   2003-11-12 5:17:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 One of the major problems in Iraq is the code of ethics of Islam: a guest is a guest, and must be offered respect, safety, and honor. What we're doing by giving them time to get their essential valuables out is to tell them, "We know you harbored a person, or hid property, we deem a danger to us. We understand your culture. Now understand that if you harbor the wrong guest, store the wrong thing, act as an agent for the wrong people, you will suffer. You must refuse them, you must turn them away, or you will face the lost of almost everything you own." Sooner or later, it'll sink in. May take awhile, but it WILL sink in. People will learn the cost of protecting the old regime is too high, and that protection will end. If you just kill them, you've become the new opressor, no different from the old opressor.
Posted by Old Patriot  2003-11-12 10:30:44 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]  2003-11-12 10:30:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 If we're really trying to reshape the region, we cant play like the thugs.

The people that U.S. military personnel are going after would almost certainly have no reservations about slitting the throats of soldiers they would capture. If captured terrorists and Baathist sympathizers are mowed down by gunfire or blasted into a million pieces by 1000 pounders, I'm sure as hell not going to cry over them, and precious few others will either.

No amount of captured enemy combatants is worth the life of even ONE U.S. soldier.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-12 10:55:30 PM||   2003-11-12 10:55:30 PM|| Front Page Top

01:15 Bayan Elashi
22:46 alaskasoldier
23:08 Atomic Conspiracy
23:01 Old Patriot
23:01 Laurence of the Rats
22:55 Bomb-a-rama
22:49 Old Patriot
22:46 Atomic Conspiracy
22:37 Old Patriot
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22:23 War46
22:22 Bomb-a-rama
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22:11 Rawsnacks
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