Article

2004-04-01 Israel-Palestine

Interesting Interview with Israeli Arab About Lack of Literacy and Culture Among Arabs

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Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-04-01 08:39|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 In order to explain a complex idea, you need high language, not the language of the souq. You can't express a complicated idea using the language of the souq. If you take young people, let's say eighth-grade Arab [children], and their French, or Jewish Israeli, counterparts, you will discover the discrepancy in self-expression. Because he does not know the language of thought, the Arab pupil runs into a big problem. Thus it is in the entire Arab world.

Cool link. Is the author Druze or Israeli Arab?

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-01 9:37:44 AM|| 2004-04-01 9:37:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 since he says he refused to serve in the Israeli army, the odds are he is a Druze

Posted by mhw 2004-04-01 10:16:46 AM|| 2004-04-01 10:16:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Mike S., great article. Ship, the guy's a druze.

Posted by Jarhead 2004-04-01 10:26:22 AM|| 2004-04-01 10:26:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 He's correct in that Israel is the only place in the middle east where he'd have the freedom to get away with that kind of apostasy.

Posted by Classic_Liberal 2004-04-01 11:37:23 AM|| 2004-04-01 11:37:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Hmm, interesting. It struck me how divergent their attitude toward the Koran is with their literacy rates, given how the Jews and the Protestants emphasize literacy in order to read their own scriptures.

I comment further here.

Posted by Ptah 2004-04-01 12:39:59 PM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2004-04-01 12:39:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Not very surprising, but I wonder whether the poor man will be fatwa-ed for speaking the truth.

And the response on the "greatness of Arab culture" from the usual suspects in 5, 4, 3, 2 . . .

Posted by The Doctor 2004-04-01 2:10:59 PM|| 2004-04-01 2:10:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Well, that explains EVERYTHING to me! Of course. It all starts in childhood.

I hold an advanced degree in Early Childhood Education, and I can say, without reservation, that it is a VERY BAD THING when children's minds are not developed.

To develop properly, children need (starting in infancy and extending through elementary years) 1) responsive, positive, human contact, 2) stimulating toys and learning activiites, 3) healthy outdoor experiences, 4) developmentally appropriate experiences with math and science, 5) being read to, familiarity with books, and, of course, learning to read. They also need modeling from parents and peers who read and value learning. Additionally, education alone is not enough. The values and expectations of the society the child lives in, will be their guides for the rest of their lives--for better or worse--even if they have been provided with what we know to be the better opportunities.

Regardless of ethnicity, children who are deprived of these things (i.e., deprived of the ability to learn to construct knowledge within a pro-social environment) tend to become emotionally detached, and end up suffering the retardation of their faculties.

And, it's also impossible to make up for the early years. The early years of a child's life provide THE window of opportunity regarding learning and brain development, as well as the many complex facets of pro-social interactions and behaviors that make for an intelligent, creative, vibrant society.

But as we've all seen, underdeveloped children, (whether inner-city thugs in the US, or thugs in the desert, half-way around the world) can later be taught to believe nonsense, and to press buttons and pull triggers. Cause and effect. I'm sure that's very, very satisfying for them, considering--even if they're in their twenties. Yikes!

Posted by ex-lib 2004-04-01 3:08:48 PM|| 2004-04-01 3:08:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Great article. It is important to try to get into the heads of the Arabs (stay with me here...don't be afraid) in order to formulate some kind of solution to the problem that does not involve the exothermic transmutation of U235 into other elements and isotopes. The new slogan will be to get your head out of the "souq" (defined in the article).

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-04-01 3:09:51 PM|| 2004-04-01 3:09:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 An observation - draw your own conclusions:
Memorizing the Qu'uran and being able to recite it properly is the highest achivement in Islam. The person, a male of course, achieving this is held in higher esteem than a mathematician or a physicist or a doctor.

ex-lib - you would probably pull out all of your hair and commit sepuku if you got a good "up close and personal" look at what is taught and inculcated in those early years in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by .com 2004-04-01 3:32:14 PM|| 2004-04-01 3:32:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 "Not at all. The perception today is like that at the beginning of Islam. Actually, Islam tried to unite the Arab tribes in the Arabian Peninsula. The Islamists see the Arab world according to what I read in the scriptures, as if today it is like the Jahaliya, the period of benightedness that preceded Islam. These Islamist movements are trying to revive Islam by uniting in the framework of an Islamic nation. Was it really like that? [The Third Caliph] Muhammad Othman bin 'Affan was murdered and thrown onto the dung heap. Three days he lay there, and a dog ate his foot. This is the golden age to which they want to return?
Yup, no doubt cos each Amir entertains fantasies about becoming khalifa...
And as the guy says, plenty of the khalifas were murdered (Umar,Uthman,Ali etc) hardly a shining example for the rest of the world...
"There's something in the Islamic perception that drives you crazy, and that is the looking only backwards, not to the future. If the golden age was in the past, your entire vision is rearwards. This causes deterioration. In our mentality as Arabs, there is a poisonous formula that can lead to nothing good at all. There is a need for change in this programming. There is a disk in the Arab mind that must be replaced with another disk, and only this way can change come."
Tell it like it is!

Posted by Dave (UK) 2004-04-01 4:51:17 PM|| 2004-04-01 4:51:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 .com: No doubt, that. Those litttle kids don't stand a chance!

And that proves why every US citizen with a brain needs to be an advocate for top-of-the line, developmentally appropriate education in the early years! Future generations appreciate freedom best when they have first-hand experience with the freedom inherent in their own intellects.

After getting the "bigger picture" through this post, it is incredibly clear that . . . well . . . I don't know how to say this . . . but it's going to take a while for the West to catch up with how deeply ingrained the Arab problem is, let alone to figure out what to do about it. Lack of education is not to be underestimated, and the levels we're talking about here are absolutely mind-blowing. I think our greatest problem will be ethnocentrism on our part. Things can change in the Arab world, though, through education--pretty much for the better. But it will take a long time. Most of them have access to media sources took which will only make them think they know how to think (same problem here). The development of critical thinking skills begins in infancy through what I outlined above--not in front of the tube!

I remember reading an article in a NYT magazine issue that explained what was going on in the Madrasses (sp?) in Afghanistan. The little boys there could easily spout anti-American one-liners and recite verses from the Koran, but didn't even know where America was. They kind of thought it was next door to them. When the reporter pulled out a map of the world, (something they had never seen), they all crowded around--very eager to be let in in some "real" knowledge. Pitiful, huh?

Posted by ex-lib 2004-04-01 5:09:29 PM|| 2004-04-01 5:09:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 You'll have to take their children away from them to succeed. Or destroy Islam utterly. There is no middle ground by their own insistence. Look at what happens when Islamists in the West allow their children get a Western education. You get Khaaaaaaaaaan! Oh, I know, LH - I'm stating the extreme case - so don't go lib-hadi on me, K? Deep breaths.

BTW, in my '92-'93 tour in SA, one of the first things I had to do involved upgrading a shitload of PC's. When I'd pop the case off a PC it never failed to draw a crowd of Saudis (they had the title of "programmer / analyst" - you betcha) who would marvel at the innards, mumble shit to each other, and occasionally ask me questions. The key point was that if they couldn't see it, it wasn't real... Now how do you explain solid state electronics to guys who're swooning over the only moving part - the FAN? That was one hell of an eye-opener for me, I assure you. 7th century, indeed.

Of course, given the Western Hollyweird movies about computers, the avg American's understanding of electronics is only a few centuries better... I offer War Games as an example: The "WOPR" hummed and had LOTS of pointless flashing lights. Only the LLL Hollyweird types would think that they needed to create a loathesome entity such as WOPR, complete with pointless visible doo-dads, for the public to use to "personify" what they should fear: Our EVIL Imperialist Gov't and EVIL Computers Run Amok. We poor humans are so powerless! And, of course, the good guys in this joke movie had a flying pterodactyl, Lol! Yeah, right. For a followup example, we have the Terminator movie series pushing the same "we are so helpless - technology is EVIL and OUT OF CONTRIL!" subtext bullshit. Anyway, sorry for the length, but I fig'd you'd get a little (laugh) out of it.

Posted by .com 2004-04-01 5:36:44 PM|| 2004-04-01 5:36:44 PM|| Front Page Top

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