Article

2004-04-18 Iraq-Jordan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-18 7:32:57 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sooner or later we're going to have to conquer our squeamishness and stop letting our respect for these people's hysterical sensibilities get in the way of our need to exert authority and control.

"But even moderate Shiâite clerics have declared that if there is bloodshed in Najaf, there will be fury across Iraq."

So tell these "moderate Shiâite clerics" that whoseoever among them counsels violence against us, will no longer be considered "moderate" and will hang alongside al-Sadr. And look that asshole Ayatollah Shitstaini right in the eye when you do it.

I'm getting tired of these goddamn savages and their primitive "religion" of death and stupidity, and I'm wondering how long it will be before a consensus emerges here that it's Islam itself--not some deviant, fanatical offshoot--that is the problem with the Arab world.

Posted by Dave D. 2004-04-18 8:28:40 AM|| 2004-04-18 8:28:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 That's very bad, all right. If your interlocutor in a negotiation doesn't have control over all his assets, it's questionable whether he's going to be able to make the commitment needed for the negotiation to succeed. On the other hand, this is another nail in Sadr's political coffin. First, he wasn't able to detonate a nationwide uprising. Secondly, he did irreparable damage to his image by backing down after all his bellicose talk and posturing. And now, it appears he can't even enforce law and order in the holiest city of the Shi'ites.

Posted by Joe 2004-04-18 8:31:08 AM|| 2004-04-18 8:31:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Just to be in charge for one day.Walk up to the clerics,tell them give up thier little shit cleric or this mosque gets leveled in two minutes :)

Posted by djohn66 2004-04-18 8:35:34 AM|| 2004-04-18 8:35:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 We appear to have Al Sadr under siege in Najaf. Sadr doesn't fart without Iranian direction.

The Marines have laid siege to Fallujah, Ramadi, Kut, and now Al Quaim on the Syrian border. All the roads east of Bahgdad are being closed.

This sound like a lot of containment waiting for resolution.

As Wrechard of the Belmont Club is asking, where is the entire US Army?

As Ted Kennedy might say, "Bush's 'Vietnam' now includes 'Cambodia' and 'Laos'"?

Posted by john 2004-04-18 11:36:54 AM|| 2004-04-18 11:36:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Patience, folks. Sadr's underwear is going to get really ripe and no one's going to want to be around him.

A seige works for us -- we slowly, carefully tighten the noose, all the while "respecting" the "4th, 7th, and 193rd" holiest sites in the region. A thug sticks his up head -- KA-Pwing! -- head gone. Nail the thugs carefully with Marine/Army snipers, strictly control the traffic around the region, nothing in or out, and wait them out. Sooner or later the thugs, being thugs of course, will get tired of this and either a) quit or b) come at us. Either works.

Let's not succumb to the LLL levels of impatience. Slow, careful, methodical, leaving no doubt whatsoever as to the inevitable outcome. That will get everyone's attention. Including, especially, the Iranians.

Posted by Steve White 2004-04-18 1:08:56 PM|| 2004-04-18 1:08:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Hi John ... I think it is something of a containment strategy, but rather than being like Vietnam, I'd suggest it's more similiar in strategy to Korea, and I think Steve White's analysis is valid; we're engaging in containment, or attempting to do so, while waiting for the other guys to screw up and attack our cordon, where we then get to engage in attrition warfare, HOPEFULLY (and it's a pretty big hopefully, I admit) where there aren't going to be too many civilians caught in the crossfire.

Look at similiar situations in the last decade; the various Russian attempts to take Grozny resulted in tens of thousands of civilian casualties. The world doesn't expect anything better of the Russians; they will, however, judge us for how the human shields fare in this situation.

The Al Quaim situation suggests that the Syrians are trying to open up the supply lines. As Wretchard would say, Centcom is not talking about how successful the attempt is. (And I thought it was all the roads west of Baghdad are being closed, not east).

One Vietnam analogy I think is appropriate is that Syria and Iran have become the "elephant in the parlor" for both liberals and conservatives discussing the war. And that bothers the heck out of me.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-04-18 1:30:57 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2004-04-18 1:30:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Right on Steve. New forces are on the way from what I hear. As for Syria it's the low hanging fruit and it seems that if you engage them that will hamper their proxy war in Iraq. I still hold onto the idea that it's the money men in SA that would really nip the jihadies but Syrian brigades are due for a bloody nose. That will take time to assemble the forces. Also heard (TV) that jihadies near the Syrian border went at US forces today.

Everybody here knows that Islamic culture is the sword we're facing. It can't be allowed to be a political force anymore. It wont go away and the blood libel is thrown down. Those ashole moderates are nothing more than one fartwa away from being sworn enemies. To late now.

If we take down the Syrian gov that leaves the same asshat syndrome thats going on in Iraq. So for me it's time to take the gloves off call a spade a spade and take out islamic leadership. Beat the tar out of that culture like we had to do to Japan, Germany and Itallian Fascist.

The cold war with Islam is over. No thirty years war. Do it now.

Posted by Lucky 2004-04-18 1:57:34 PM|| 2004-04-18 1:57:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 There are more troops on the way. More and more National Guard and Reserve units are being alerted. For me it starts to get personal. The National Guard units from my home town and my son's Marine Corps Reserve unit have been alerted and should be deployed by June. I finally understand what my Dad told me when I left for VietNam: "It's easier to the one who goes than to be the ones who wait for you to come back."

Posted by RWV 2004-04-18 2:17:04 PM|| 2004-04-18 2:17:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 How about "Sadr gives himself up, immediately and unconditionally, or you have to build a new shrine?"

Works for me. Despite a nearly congenital inability for Arabs to accept blame over just about everything they do, any destruction of Shi'ite shrines must be pinned squarely on Sadr's (preferrably rigor mortised) back.

It's time to make the Islamic world keenly aware that their shrines will end up being vaporised one by one unless they rein in terrorism. If they keep up with the atrocities, there will be no destinations left for their pilgrimages.

Nothing less than holding their most sacred places hostage will provide a credible deterrent to future terrorist attacks. Leveling one of the Shi'ite's most holy mosques in Iraq will make it vividly clear that we are not kidding around.

The time has come to wield a gigantic spiked club over Arabia's head. It is the only thing they will ever respect in the short term. With Iran attempting to go nuclear, we do not have the luxury of long term options right now. We must make it explicitly clear that any future dabbling in terrorism will come at a horrendous cost.

Iraq is the perfect place for us to begin bringing this policy home in spades.

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-18 7:53:00 PM|| 2004-04-18 7:53:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Ya know, Zipster, you're more than keen for our brave military to just go in everywhere, guns blazing, to "kill them all and let God sort them out."
And yet Liberals like you crucified warbloggers like me and Fred for being "chickenhawks."
If you don't SHUT UP about all the mass mayhem you'd like to see the US military indiscriminately commit "In Your Name"â¢, I'm going to think you're not a patriot--oh, no.
You're just a murdering psychopath.
Maybe your local police would do well to look for any missing persons at your house--Know what I mean, Hannibal Lecter?

Posted by Jen 2004-04-18 8:13:40 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-04-18 8:13:40 PM|| Front Page Top

12:53 Gentle
12:53 Gentle
12:51 Gentle
12:51 Gentle
12:49 Anonymous4312
12:49 Anonymous4312
12:48 Anonymous4312
12:48 Anonymous4312
22:54 Jen
22:53 Jen
22:49 B
22:48 Not Mike Moore
22:42 Jen
22:39 Jen
22:39 Not Mike Moore
22:37 Jen
22:35 Not Mike Moore
22:30 Not Mike Moore
22:27 Not Mike Moore
21:15 Frank G
21:05 Jen
21:05 Not Mike Moore
21:00 Not Mike Moore
20:58 Super Hose