Article

2004-05-05 Europe

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-05 3:35:15 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 May I suggest that the "moderate" Muslims that you are looking for are simply less fanatical about religion in the first place. Yes, such Muslims do exist. But then they are of no use in moderating Islam.

Posted by Rafael 2004-05-05 4:12:29 AM|| 2004-05-05 4:12:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 They might be less fanatical about religion but they all feel the same way towards Israel and American support of it. They (moderate) will not lift a finger to help the war on terror and will do everything to hinder it.

Posted by Anonymous4617 2004-05-05 4:49:36 AM|| 2004-05-05 4:49:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Zenster..I'll lay 2 to 1 odds that you'll see censoring of churches but not mosques, the places where the extremists preach will still continue to preach what they say while claiming the government seething about government interference in their religious areas. There plan, while well meanining..wont stop the hatred thats coming out of these places.

Posted by Valentine 2004-05-05 5:37:02 AM|| 2004-05-05 5:37:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Meanwhile, Canada is trying to turn Biblical passages into hate speech. Valentine's right -- you'll see censorship and prosecution of Christians for saying the wrong things long before you see anything done about Muslims.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-05 9:07:26 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-05-05 9:07:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 someone shuld tell him to have happy cinco de mayo. happy cinco de mayo evryone! :)

Posted by muck4doo 2004-05-05 9:09:06 AM|| [http://www.kfccruelty.com/gregory-pryor.html] 2004-05-05 9:09:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Ugh. I hate prior restraint. Let them say whatever the hell they want, but if it falls under "shouting fire in a theatre", bring 'em up on charges.

Yeah, yeah - I know. The rest of the world doesn't have a first amendment. Doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-05-05 9:17:39 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-05-05 9:17:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 This is EXACTLY why, as a LIBERAL, I support Bush's aggressive policies in the Mid east and South asia. Spain has chosen not to fight OVER THERE - the logical alternative is to try to wage the fight at home, and this INEVITABLY leads to loss of civil liberties. And yeah, the Church and the PP are right - once you say the state can restrict Mullahs speech, you open up to restriction on speech by Christians, Jews, etc.

This thing MUST be fought at the roots, IN THE ISLAMIC countries, and that fight MUST be won, whatever the costs, or we face loss of freedom at home.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-05 9:55:27 AM|| 2004-05-05 9:55:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 LH even though I don't agree with you, I thought yours was a very insightful comment.

Posted by Phil B 2004-05-05 11:09:20 AM|| 2004-05-05 11:09:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 liberalhawk and zhang fei always very insightful and antiwar inciteful.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-05-05 11:18:05 AM|| [http://petaenespanol.com/cinco/] 2004-05-05 11:18:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Zenster..I'll lay 2 to 1 odds that you'll see censoring of churches but not mosques, the places where the extremists preach will still continue to preach what they say while claiming the government seething about government interference in their religious areas. There plan, while well meanining..wont stop the hatred thats coming out of these places.

Which is precisely why it is incumbent upon all Muslims to report the violent jihadists within their ranks. Should this not come to pass, all Islam will condemn themselves as a whole by consenting through silence to ally their religion with fanatics.

There is very little time for them to begin this purge. After that, it may well be necessary for other powers to purge their ranks for them. It simply may boil down to reclaiming a "peaceful" religion from those who are hijacking it.

If outside attempts to rid Islam of its virulent radicals are met with opposition en masse then Islam itself will require dismantling altogether. There is not much time left for them to realize it and take action.

It would be wonderful if we had the luxury of waiting around for them to come to this realization on their own, but we do not. I give less than 24 months before incredibly suppressive measures begin to manifest.

Moslems cannot be permitted to parade under false colors. Expecting the world's protection as an instituted religion while serving to foment atrocities without vigorous internal protest and remediation qualifies Islam for nothing but the scrap heap.

PS: muck4doo, that last comment was one of your best (and most readable).

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-05 11:40:12 AM|| 2004-05-05 11:40:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Zenster, overkill is not the answer. Your gung ho, âpro-militaryâ solutions lack the temper of realism. Donât give up on Muslims, in general. They, too, bleed and die and hope daily for a better life. Palestine simply proves that the gentrification of entitlement, without personal responsibility and true democratic voice, always leads to thuggery. If we follow the policies of President Bush, there is much reason to hope millions more can be set free to pursue life, liberty and happiness. We have the sword for the warring, and our right hand of friendship for the peaceful.

Posted by cingold 2004-05-05 11:47:06 AM|| 2004-05-05 11:47:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Zenster, overkill is not the answer. Your gung ho, âpro-militaryâ solutions lack the temper of realism. Donât give up on Muslims, in general. They, too, bleed and die and hope daily for a better life.

While I appreciate your admonishments, cingold, I do not see where there is time for non-military solutions. The Food-for Oil program and most sanctions in general are sterling examples of squandered opportunities. It is only after Khadafi narrowly missed getting a high speed enema that he began writing us love letters.

I've already taken brickbats for maintaining that there are moderate Muslims. I'll probably continue to do so. At the same time, I refuse to tolerate even the remote chance of a nuclear terror attack.

Ayman Al-Zawahiri has openly bragged about al Qaeda's procurement and willingness to use nuclear weapoms for terror attacks. Even if he only seeks to ratchet up the tension, so be it.

We are obliged to operate on the basis of what he has said. This leaves very little time on the clock (as in microseconds). The world does not have time to press solely conventional military campaigns in pursuit of these fanatics. Sure, they must continue to be carried on, but some other massive club must be held above Islam's head as a whole if we have any hope of preventing an atrocity that will make 9-11 pale in comparison.

Posted by Zenster 2004-05-05 12:25:51 PM|| 2004-05-05 12:25:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "I refuse to tolerate even the remote chance of a nuclear terror attack."
So you're going to do WHAT, Mr. Militia?
Take the "law" or the government into your own hands?
You still sound like a nuclear nut yourself and as crazy as Saddam or Hitler babbling about "enemies."

As a citizen, you can do several things: buy radiation pills (I did).
Build a shelter in your home and stock up on supplies.
Vote and pay taxes and support the government, which is trying to prevent this from happening and one of the key things in this regard is our Strategic Missile Defense.
(Note: this means NOT calling the President "Shrub" and going around saying things like "He stole the election in 2000."
The enemies of this country THRIVE on talk like that and think that because there are loud Americans like you who disrepect President Bush that therefore we are ripe for attack and takeover.)
Other than the actions I outlined above, any "proactive action" you propose to get started is out of your bounds as an ordinary citizen and American, Zipperhead.
You want the terrorists and rogue states to respect America by having the President announce that he'll nuke them if they put a foot wrong...well, respect, like charity, begins at home.
Why should Al Queda respect Bush, nukes or no nukes, when you DON'T?
And the President has the Football with him at all times, whether you think he was "properly" elected or not.
(He was.)

Posted by Jen 2004-05-05 12:40:35 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-05 12:40:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Get after the left deviationist on the blog. Hero of blog metal to Jen and Brab

Posted by Stalin 2004-05-05 6:08:47 PM|| 2004-05-05 6:08:47 PM|| Front Page Top

11:26 Man Bites Dog TROLL
10:14 Man Bites Dog TROLL
13:28 Man Bites Dog TROLL
04:14 Man Bites Dog TROLL
04:13 Man Bites Dog TROLL
19:45 Man Bites Dog TROLL
05:50 Man Bites Dog TROLL
11:01 ConservativeView
11:01 ConservativeView
05:51 tipper
00:20 Edward Yee
00:16 Edward Yee
23:20 Robert Crawford
23:11 Phil B
23:07 Phil B
23:04 Super Hose
23:01 Super Hose
22:59 Rafael
22:52 Dripping Sarcasm
22:49 Frank G
22:48 Frank G
22:44 AF Lady
22:43 Super Hose
22:40 Jarhead