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2004-08-22 Europe

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Posted by Zenster 2004-08-22 12:37:07 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 IIRC, Hess was branded a traitor after his flight to England. Now he's a Nazi hero again? Or the anniversary is just a good excuse to go goose stepping in the park...

Posted by PBMcL 2004-08-22 12:56:14 AM|| 2004-08-22 12:56:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I'm with you, PB--fans of Rudolph Hess? Who knew?

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-22 2:15:59 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-22 2:15:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 "Iâm hoping True German Ally or someone else from Germany can elucidate as to exactly why the officials are prohibited from temporarily detaining every single one of those 3,000 people in order to identify them and begin monitoring their activities. Anyone who supports Nazism effectively advocates genocide, hate speech and anti-Semitism. Arenât all or some of these, legal violations in Germany?"

Where's TGA when you need him? Unfortunately I don't know much about this but I do know that Germany does make an effort on some level to stamp this stuff out - probably more out of shame than anything else. The problem is, they tend to err on the side of leniency when dealing with it.

"Anti-Nazi protesters, including Mayor Karl-Willi Beck, councillors and local residents, tried to block them with a sit-down protest BUT POLICE THREATENED TO REMOVE THEM."

That I find quite obscene.

Posted by Bryan 2004-08-22 7:02:03 AM|| 2004-08-22 7:02:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Bryan, you can be sure they are doing all that. I bet that about every demonstrator (and they are kind enough to dress accordingly, so they can be easily identified) got checked by police before he entered that little town. The Neo-Nazis are well known, their "touristic" activity well documented and when they demonstrate from time to time we get their current photos. Also it is estimated that one out of ten in the hard core scene is a police informant.

As for the Anti-Nazi-protestors.. police always tries to keep both sides apart, to avoid violent clashes which are hard to sort out and the Neo-Nazis have the bigger boots. That's not obscene, that's just common sense. I doubt that U.S. police would allow to let opposing groups have a go at each other. Not a sign of police sympathy for the skinheads, far from that.

The Neo Nazis use a loophole in German demonstration law that will soon be closed. But to have them out in the open from time to time is actually more helpful than make them go underground. Harder to control.

But if you show a Nazi insignia, hide your face or carry weapons (and police may even consider an umbrella a weapon), down you go.

As for Hess being a Nazi hero... well he's the only one who has a grave that can be visited. Neo-Nazis cant be picky.

Btw you will hardly find a Neo-Nazi website on a German server or with a German domain, they get closed down very fast. German requests to U.S. webhosters or government officials to do the same get regularily turned down though... the "free speech" thing, you know.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-22 12:25:05 PM|| 2004-08-22 12:25:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 TGA, thank you so much for the clarification. This is exactly the sort of official policy I was looking to find.

As for Hess being a Nazi hero... well he's the only one who has a grave that can be visited. Neo-Nazis cant be picky.

That is hilarious, and the best part is that it's true. I credit the Nazi hunters for having exterminated most of the remaining top brass in ways that prevented them from becoming enshrined.

German requests to U.S. webhosters or government officials to do the same get regularily turned down though... the "free speech" thing, you know.

I find this rather disturbing. Someone I once knew said that when America's founding fathers penned our free speech amendments, they could not possibly have anticipated they would be used to protect the voice of such evil in full measure like the Nazis represent. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. What constitutes hate speech, advocacy of genocide and anti-Semitism in Germany should also stand for the same in America.

TGA, what do you see as inhibiting suppression of Neo-Nazi propaganda here in America? While you cannot be expected to provide us with a detailed dissection of another country's internal policy, I would still enjoy seeing your own perceptions as to why such disgusting filth is given the least latitude here in America when it is more properly censured in Germany.

I doubt liberals have any bleeding hearts for the Neo-Nazis and I can't imagine that conservatives seek to garner votes from the sicko skinhead fringes. Yes, there is an active anti-Semitic component to more than a few hyper-conservative elements, but I find it difficult to think that the conservative core would actively pander to them by maintaining free avenues for the expression of such vile doctrine.

Just curious.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-22 3:51:09 PM|| 2004-08-22 3:51:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Zenster: Yes, there is an active anti-Semitic component to more than a few hyper-conservative elements, but I find it difficult to think that the conservative core would actively pander to them by maintaining free avenues for the expression of such vile doctrine.

We've always maintained that people have a right to say whatever they want, short of falsely shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater. The more light is shed on bad ideologies through vigorous debate, the less places these ideologies will have to hide. Suppression of dissent by the government is never a good thing. The marketplace of ideas must remain free, lest one party use it to suppress the ideas of another party.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-22 4:00:23 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-22 4:00:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 These neo-Nazi goof balls in Germany are a small fringe group that has been marginalized by mainstream German society. It's fine to be vigilent about them and to watch that they stay marginalized, but to expend so much mental energy hyperventilating about them is odd, I must say.

No one here seems to worry about the gov't sanctioneded ultra religious Muslim call to prayer 5x a day in the public square right under our noses in New Jersey and Michigan and what that signifies because LEFT WINGERS preach tolerance for every religion EXCEPT Christianity, because the latter is associated with evil conservatives.

No one seems concerned about the LEFT WING ACLU and related LEFT WING "civil rights" legal groups arguing on behalf of anti-semetic terrorists held in Gitmo.

No one is worried about our porous southern border that leads to corrupt LEFT WING Latin American countries and even though LEFT WING South America is the home of extremist Muslims who moved there in the 1970's and the Nazis who settled there after WWII.

No one cares that sharia law is in practice in a LEFT WING country right next door to us. In fact, some of you have argued about how "reasonable" it was to allow sharia law to be practised in the West because orthodox Jews are allowed to use their religious laws in the USA.

No worries about Islamofascism enabled by extreme liberalism. But man the small fringe German neo Nazi nutbar group["hyper-conservative elements"]is worrisome, indeed.

Sheesh. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

Posted by rex 2004-08-22 4:28:43 PM|| 2004-08-22 4:28:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Zhang Fei, I cherish free speech as much as you do.

Julius Streicher, the editor of "Der StÃ¼rmer", was rightfully hanged in NÃ¼rnberg. Should he have pleaded not guilty because of "free speech".?

There is no such thing as free speech when it tramples the vital rights of others. You can't stick posters on the trees of your city that call your neighbor vermin that doesn't deserve to live. Why can you run a website that says the same thing about Jews? Not just Nazi websites, Islamist websites do the same.

And yes, Zhang Fei, this compares to falsely shouting FIRE in a theater. We do know today where it can lead.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-22 4:43:41 PM|| 2004-08-22 4:43:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 The marketplace of ideas must remain free, lest one party use it to suppress the ideas of another party.

Yes, but it also must remain free of murderous, renegade fanatical thugs and their incitement to genocide, racial hatred and violent coercion. None of these are vital components of a free society, they constitute criminal intention and have no place in a civilized world.

"But man the small fringe German neo Nazi nutbar group["hyper-conservative elements"]is worrisome, indeed. Sheesh. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees."

rex, when you're done frothing, I'll be happy to discuss some of your talking points. Your perceived repression of Christian practices in America cannot and do not hold a candle to the true threat of Jihadist global cultural genocide and their Nazi brethern. Liberalism's vein-opening obsession with multiculturalism is definitely of concern, but the focus is and should rightly remain on the real threat at hand.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-22 4:53:13 PM|| 2004-08-22 4:53:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 TGA: Julius Streicher, the editor of "Der StÃ¼rmer", was rightfully hanged in NÃ¼rnberg. Should he have pleaded not guilty because of "free speech".?

Free speech does not cover enemy combatants or wartime contingencies. I don't think we're currently at war with Nazis. If we ever go to war with Islam, rather than the limited campaigns being fought, you can bet that we'll start suppressing free speech.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-22 5:00:27 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-22 5:00:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Zhang Fei, please check out my post in the "Jewish-run soup kitchen burned in Paris" thread.

I don't think we're currently at war with Nazis.

And I must beg to differ.

More recently, they watched uneasily as Hezbollah's television station, Al-Manar, broadcast the Syrian-produced series "Al-Shatat," ("The Diaspora"), a recounting of Jewish history from 1812 to 1948 in which sinister radical Zionists plot to bake matzo with the blood of Christian children. Everyone from newspaper pundits to the French Broadcasting Authority to the American Embassy in Lebanon voiced their disgust. Meanwhile, Lebanese publishers have issued new editions of "Mein Kampf" and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," both widely recognized as anti-Jewish propaganda.
EMPHASIS ADDED

It's nearly impossible that you have not seen one of my numerous links to "The Arab/Muslim Nazi Connection." I place it here in case you have not. We are again fighting the Nazis, they merely wear a different ~~uniform~~ turban. The only difference is that Islamists seek global cultural genocide and not just elimination of the Jews.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-22 5:49:45 PM|| 2004-08-22 5:49:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Now you make sense, #11. Islamofacists are definitely new nazis with turbans. As I said earlier the next staging area for AQ appears to be Latin America and S. America. It's no accident that extremists Muslims found a home and money in S. America in the 1970's.

But I think folks worrying about the growth and nurturing of anti-semetism vis-a-vis small fringe neo Nazi fringe group in Germany are not looking at the real danger.

The real danger is the legitimizing and nurturing of Islam in the West by mis-guided uber tolerant liberals. Islam is easily politicized as we see in the ME. In other words, conservatives are not the enablers of ideology that can be corrupted into anti-semetism. Uber tolerant liberals are the enablers of something that can quickly transform itself to being anti-semetic.

Posted by rex 2004-08-22 6:11:55 PM|| 2004-08-22 6:11:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 In other words, conservatives are not the enablers of ideology that can be corrupted into anti-semetism.

Nice try, but with banana oil like the Defense of Marriage Amendment and allowing religious organizations that receive tax dollars to hire only employees who share similar religious views while administering those federally funded programs, the White House is not only blurring the separation of church and state, but skirting dangerously close to the same sort of theocracy our troops are spilling their blood to fight against.

Log Cabin [Republican] members insist more is at stake than merely the fate the Republican Party. Mason told the Chronicle that while he respects the right of religious conservatives to express their concerns, "they are trying to use the Republican Party to bring about a theocracy. I see my work in the Log Cabin not only as defending the party, but defending traditional American values, because I don't think a theocracy was what this country was ever intended to be."

Do you think for one minute that maybe, just maybe, this is part of what has the left, liberals and the ACLU up in arms? Think hard. This is not to say that these same factions don't harbor as equally idiotic goals as the DOMA, merely that before you rant about the liberals not seeing the forest for the trees, you had better d@mn well check your own back yard for subversion of our constitution. Enabling theocracy, yes even Christian theocracy, can lead to anti-Semitism just as surely as Islamist terrorism. Merely examine all of the state sanctioned Christian religion in Europe and their own extensive history of anti-Semitism if you have any doubts.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-22 6:41:12 PM|| 2004-08-22 6:41:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Leave him alone! I meant to vote for Pat!

Posted by Palm Beach Babe 2004-08-22 7:07:14 PM|| 2004-08-22 7:07:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 you had better d@mn well check your own back yard for subversion of our constitution. Enabling theocracy, yes even Christian theocracy, can lead to anti-Semitism just as surely as Islamist terrorism
Christianity does not have as one of its tenets eliminate the Jews off this planet. If you can't see the difference of attitudes to other religions per Islam and per Christianity, you have problems. I'd hazard a guess that most of the soldiers who defeated the Nazis and rescued the Jews were Christians and not Muslims or aethists so don't bother to imply that Hitler was a Christian and therefore all Christians are potential Hitlers.

Merely examine all of the state sanctioned Christian religion in Europe and their own extensive history of anti-Semitism if you have any doubts. Christianity is an old religion. It's history is not an ode to perfection. But neither is Judaism or Hinduism. Do you think that Jews are the only victims in human history. Get beyond your ego and look beyond your naval. Different groups have been persecuted. I always use the example of 8-10 million Christian/Greek Orthodox Ukrainian farmers that Stalin "snuffed" in 2 short years. Where was the outcry? Did the Jews make a fuss at the time to speak out about the Russian atrocities against the Ukrainians? While you are wading in self pity, think about the deafening silence of your own group of "perfect ancestors" when other people were victims of genocide.

The single greatest threat to Jews today is radical Islam as well as apathy from aetheists, not Christianity. I'm sorry you cannot see that fact.

Posted by rex 2004-08-23 2:05:07 AM|| 2004-08-23 2:05:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Christianity does not have as one of its tenets eliminate the Jews off this planet.

It sure as hell used to and, even recently, was perverted towards that end, as in the NAZIS. Theocracy will always guarantee the death of many for the promotion of a few.

... so don't bother to imply that Hitler was a Christian and therefore all Christians are potential Hitlers.

Stick your straw man argument where the sun doesn't shine.

Get beyond your ego and look beyond your naval.

Let me go outside and check the dock in my backyard. Nope, no navy. Now why don't you stop your dishonest navel gazing and pose some valid rebuttals for a change.

While you are wading in self pity, think about the deafening silence of your own group of "perfect ancestors" when other people were victims of genocide.

Guess what, you impaired cretin? I'm not Jewish. I just happen to believe that any state sanctioning of religion is a one-way ticket to hell.

The single greatest threat to Jews today is radical Islam as well as apathy from aetheists ...

Wise up, you clueless mouth breather. Athiests are not a major contributing factor. It's religious loons of all stripes that keep piling up the mountains of corpses. You've already proven your credentials (or lack thereof) over in the "This Isn't War" thread. Please take a flying leap at your earliest convenience.

Warmest Personal Regards,

Zenster

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-23 12:53:37 PM|| 2004-08-23 12:53:37 PM|| Front Page Top

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