Article

2004-08-29 China-Japan-Koreas

Kerry Donates War Medals to Korean Olympian

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Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-29 12:53:42 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Good post...headline had me going there for a bit...

Posted by Seafarious 2004-08-29 1:58:25 AM|| 2004-08-29 1:58:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 :-) Good post
lucky he was Korean. If he was Vietnamese he might gotten chased around a hooch and shot in the back

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-29 7:10:58 AM|| 2004-08-29 7:10:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I snorted my coffee when I read that comment, Frank. But on a serious note, one thing about Kerry's service that I don't question is the decision to shoot that VC in the back. Fair fights in a war are a stupid idea. Actually, fair fights anytime are stupid.

Posted by CRS 2004-08-29 7:47:28 AM|| 2004-08-29 7:47:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Shooting unarmed wounded folks in the back while they are running away from you is usually considered bad form or in some circles cowardly. Tells you all you need to know about John F. Kerry.

Posted by Anonymous5430 2004-08-29 9:03:18 AM|| 2004-08-29 9:03:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 War's an ugly business. I can't say I could blame Kerry for doing what he did in the heat of action, whilst the blood was up. But I would fault him for praising himself for conducting what seems to have been an honour-free act.

Posted by Bulldog 2004-08-29 9:11:50 AM|| 2004-08-29 9:11:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 5430, if you are ever in combat, especially with an adversary like the VC, killing a wounded soldier assures he won't be back to try to kill you. Fighting fair only gets you killed.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2004-08-29 9:14:37 AM|| 2004-08-29 9:14:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I agree with BD and Deacon - I would've shot him too, but think putting yourself in for the award after is the criminal act - what a poseur

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-29 9:49:15 AM|| 2004-08-29 9:49:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 A5430: Shooting unarmed wounded folks in the back while they are running away from you is usually considered bad form or in some circles cowardly.

Actually, it isn't - what is bad form and a war crime is shooting someone after he's surrendered. Enemy troops, wounded or not, have no right to flee. They only have the right to surrender. They can fight, and take the potential consequence of getting killed. But they have no right to run away.

Even shooting prisoners of war isn't a sign of cowardice. The Imperial Japanese Army and the Wehrmacht did a lot of that, but no one has accused them of being cowardly. What is cowardly is running away from the scene of battle even as other elements of one's unit stand firm.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-29 11:13:28 AM|| [http://diggsc.typepad.com/] 2004-08-29 11:13:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 I dont think Kerry shooting an armed VC in the back while the VC was fleeing is bad - he (the VC) could have easily turned around and fired another round if the launcher was loaded.

However doctoring the after action report to inflate the number of enemy he faced and their actions shows Kerry's character more then most.

Returning to the thread -- Are you sure it wasn't a North Korean? We know how Kerry loves those communists.....

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-08-29 12:05:00 PM|| 2004-08-29 12:05:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Well said, Frank. War isn't for the squeemish. I had a buddy in the 1st Cav in Nam and we were talking when he got back (he was wounded 3 times and only got one PH) and he was talking about his last patrol. He wanted a pair of Ho Chi Minh sandals but wanted the real ones, not the fakes you could buy in Saigon. Anyway, on his last patrol they were in a fire fight and killed a few VC. He got an authentic pair of sandals. A woman sitting next to us asked him why he could only get them on a patrol and he told her he took them off a dead VC. She was shocked, not that he had killed a VC but that he had taken the sandals. She said, "How could you take that poor man's shoes?". We looked at each other and I said, "Hell, lady, he didn't need them. He was dead". She called us both bloodthirsty bastards and stomped off. We laughed our asses off. She didn't have a clue.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2004-08-29 1:22:03 PM|| 2004-08-29 1:22:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief, see article.

Posted by UFO 2004-08-29 1:56:45 PM|| [http://politicsandcurrentevents.com] 2004-08-29 1:56:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Why let an enemy run away so he can fight you again at a time and place of his own choosing? I will never hold it against J F'in' K, much as I despise him for other things, for pursuing an enemy and killing him, wounded or not. When you fight, you fight to win. End of story.

Posted by Dar 2004-08-29 1:58:09 PM|| 2004-08-29 1:58:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Deacon Blues: A woman sitting next to us asked him why he could only get them on a patrol and he told her he took them off a dead VC. She was shocked, not that he had killed a VC but that he had taken the sandals. She said, "How could you take that poor man's shoes?". We looked at each other and I said, "Hell, lady, he didn't need them. He was dead".

This isn't a particularly new practice. Read "All Quiet on the Western Front", written by a former front line soldier in the Great War, Erich Maria Remarque.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-29 2:24:40 PM|| [http://diggsc.typepad.com/] 2004-08-29 2:24:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 CrazyFool: I dont think Kerry shooting an armed VC in the back while the VC was fleeing is bad - he (the VC) could have easily turned around and fired another round if the launcher was loaded.

Armed or unarmed, the enemy is not allowed to flee. He has the right to surrender and to have his personal safety guaranteed after his surrender, but that's it. Kerry was perfectly within his rights to shoot an unarmed combatant as he was fleeing. But not after a surrender.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-29 2:26:39 PM|| [http://diggsc.typepad.com/] 2004-08-29 2:26:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Zhang Fei-

In principle I agree with you.

However, the Geneva Convention does not. Having just returned from BCT, one of the training days cover the Geneva convention (yes, just the high points). It is illegal to shoot a wounded enemy soldier or one who is running.

Do I fault Kerry for his deed? No. Perfectly natural.

I fault him for not being able to keep his mouth shut about his _own_ violation of the 'laws of war'.

Posted by Jame Retief 2004-08-29 2:45:48 PM|| 2004-08-29 2:45:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 fair fights anytime are stupid.
! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Shame on you

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-29 2:47:56 PM|| 2004-08-29 2:47:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 shut up

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-29 2:59:42 PM|| 2004-08-29 2:59:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 JR: However, the Geneva Convention does not. Having just returned from BCT, one of the training days cover the Geneva convention (yes, just the high points). It is illegal to shoot a wounded enemy soldier or one who is running.

This can't be right. This must not be the one that we ratified. I know for a fact that some of the new provisions were deliberately worked up to tie our hands after the Vietnam War.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-29 2:59:43 PM|| [http://diggsc.typepad.com/] 2004-08-29 2:59:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I'm with Gentle, let's level the playing field.
All soldiers in Western armies must be smacked in the head with a ball-peen hammer 20 minutes before combat.

Posted by Shipman 2004-08-29 3:00:28 PM|| 2004-08-29 3:00:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 LOL ship!

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-29 3:03:36 PM|| 2004-08-29 3:03:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Looks like you are the ones who do not value freedom of speech.
I've never been told to shut up before.
Huh!
And you thought Arabs liked to control women.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw bricks at the houses of other people.

Posted by Gentle 2004-08-29 3:07:04 PM|| 2004-08-29 3:07:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Gentle: I've never been told to shut up before.
Huh! And you thought Arabs liked to control women.

Do you live in an Arab country? Have you ever talked back to your husband about his other wives?

As to being told to shut up, everyone tells everyone to shut up in this country. It's par for the course. If you can't take being told to shut up, you should depart for more salubrious surroundings, such as the Democratic Underground.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-29 3:15:11 PM|| [http://diggsc.typepad.com/] 2004-08-29 3:15:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 I was only trying to help you keep from embarrassing yourself further.....yeah, that's the ticket!

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-29 3:17:06 PM|| 2004-08-29 3:17:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 If you've never been told to shut up that means that you never open your mouth...except on a free speech infidel site

That makes sense indeed.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-29 3:19:07 PM|| 2004-08-29 3:19:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 pEOPLES in grass houses should not store thrones

Posted by Half 2004-08-29 3:36:29 PM|| 2004-08-29 3:36:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 People in grass houses shouldn't get stoned :-)

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-29 4:11:03 PM|| 2004-08-29 4:11:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Gentle, dear, please remember that there is a difference between the playground and the battlefield. And be grateful, as am I, that you've only seen one of them ... and pray that you can say the same on your deathbed.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-08-29 6:58:35 PM|| 2004-08-29 6:58:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 the battle of 20 easting was won on the mushroom fields weve eaten

Posted by Half 2004-08-29 8:02:15 PM|| 2004-08-29 8:02:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 If you live in a glass house, don't throw bricks at the houses of other people.

Sage advice for the rulers and residents of most non-Jewish Middle Eastern countries.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-29 8:52:14 PM|| 2004-08-29 8:52:14 PM|| Front Page Top

15:12 BMN
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