Article

2005-03-11 Iraq-Jordan

Troops give tacit nod to vigilante justice

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2005-03-11 00:00:00 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Baghdad district of Dura. "The Hood" Sounds like a good investment...

Location Location Location

Posted by Uling Glavise2664 2005-03-11 12:30:04 AM|| 2005-03-11 12:30:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 (cue Will Smith voice) "THIS is what I'm talkin' about!"

A ways back a bunch of 'burgers had some debates over this general topic -- vigilantes/revenge as a possible tool in the war. With some modifications to what's described here, this is the sort of thing I was openly wishing for.

There's a natural tension between tribal organization/loyalties/codes of behavior and the rule of law we ultimately seek, but that tension is not at every point, and insoluble. First things first. If we enrich a few traditional leaders who (1) get the projects done (2) help eliminate the criminal/terrorist element -- known as "insurgents" to the brainless western media -- then we indeed save lives all 'round and get closer to our objectives.

The way Saddam worked the tribal system was, like everything else he did, malign in that it was done solely to cement central control. There can be lots of ways to work the system in productive ways - or at least ways that represent a reasonable trade-off.

One thing I love is the way the masterful taming of the Mahdi Army is misreported, here in the classic formulation:

"the Mehdi Army, the Shiite fighting force that battled the US military until October when it agreed to a truce."

The impression conveyed, of a pitched battle ending in a truce, is of course a preposterous distortion of the facts. Where the US objective was the destruction/dislodgement of Tater's boys, it was accomplished in superb fashion using military, political, and financial weapons. But appreciating, much less reporting, this sort of story is beyond most of today's sad excuse for a news media (there were a few stories, at least one in the WaPo, that did in fact convey the information accurately).

Posted by Verlaine in Iraq 2005-03-11 3:53:34 AM|| 2005-03-11 3:53:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Thanks for the perspective, Verlaine. It's really helpful to know what the true story is behind what's reported. Keep taking care of the bad guyz for us all -- over here there are more and more "Oh, God, what if Bush was right after all?!?" stories, and yet another of the neighbor kids is talking about the Marines. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-03-11 4:16:12 AM|| 2005-03-11 4:16:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Using tribalism to advantage when there is a vacuum of authority makes perfect sense. The local powers have the goods on the bad guys.

When the bad guys are gone - the local powers will have to make peace and learn to accomodate the real authorities. Having dealt with them along the way makes it much easier for them to work out rule of law arrangements. I believe this can and will happen, and I'll even offer the parallel of the powerful cattle barons who had to eventually bend to the rule of law. They filled the vacuum while there was one - then they faced the same fork in the road - and had to choose.

Posted by .com 2005-03-11 4:42:25 AM|| 2005-03-11 4:42:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Trailing wife, I'm on the soft side of the operation here -- civilian working with State -- but we all like to think we're contributing. My work actually could be important to the overall cause. I don't miss a chance to thank or give a small assist to the boys and girls in uniform here carrying the big part of the load. In fact, being in a position to do so is one of the best parts of being here.

.com, great comment. That's exactly right -- Rome wasn't built in a day, and creating a civilized country based on rule of law is a long evolution. To paraphrase Rummy's utterly unassailable comment re equipment, "you go to war with the local traditional power system you have." Working it, and working with it, to kill bad guys, save good guys, and restore basic order is eminently sensible.

Posted by Verlaine in Iraq 2005-03-11 8:43:09 AM|| 2005-03-11 8:43:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 always enjoy reading your comments - VII.

Posted by 2b 2005-03-11 9:03:38 AM|| 2005-03-11 9:03:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Verlaine, from what I've read, both soft and hard sides are indeed contributing to build the new Iraq. Please share my thanks with the kids in uniform as well. Oh, and if you run across a retired FBI guy, he may be a neighbor of mine come over to do his bit, so help him settle in, 'k? Thanks!!

Posted by trailing wife 2005-03-11 11:36:47 AM|| 2005-03-11 11:36:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 By all accounts, Malik is close to both the Americans and the Mehdi Army, the Shiite fighting force that battled the US military until October when it agreed to a truce. For the US army, Malik is their enforcer who will make sure their public works projects get done and will deliver them solid information on the insurgency raging in Dura. In turn, officers award him contracts and if he comes under attack, by their own admission, they look the other way when he settles scores. The Americans compare the dynamics to that of the US mafia. âHe's the Godfather,â Hoyt says.
and
One US sergeant, on condition of anonymity, recounted an incident barely a month ago when a Shiite family kidnapped a fundamentalist Sunni cleric, Sheikh Nadha, from the Rahman Mosque in Dura. They blamed Nadha for killing a member of their family. âI don't think we'll be seeing him again,â the sergeant said.
or

There's something bulky in the cornerstone of that building...

Gee, these flowers are sure blooming nice...

Somebody was delivered fish, you say???

Posted by BigEd 2005-03-11 4:16:17 PM|| 2005-03-11 4:16:17 PM|| Front Page Top

00:01 Bobby
23:57 2b
23:56 2b
23:56 Sobiesky
23:53 Sobiesky
23:50 trailing wife
23:49 2b
23:45 trailing wife
23:44 Bomb-a-rama
23:40 kachikel
23:34 trailing wife
23:32 Sobiesky
23:22 2b
23:19 Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood
23:16 2b
23:15 Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood
23:14 Bobby
22:56 trailing wife
22:55 SteveS
22:54 Frank G
22:53 Frank G
22:49 trailing wife
22:43 trailing wife
22:40 trailing wife