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2005-04-12 International-UN-NGOs

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Posted by Fred 2005-04-12 00:00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Not particularly surprising, here. China knows India to be reflexively anti-American, whatever its temporary accommodations (at the present time) to obtain American armaments and munitions. Note that South Korea, which is as anti-American as they get, has a token troop presence in Iraq. India doesn't. Pretty telling, in my book.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-12 2:16:16 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-12 2:16:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I think China is trying to pre-empt a US-India axis. The Indian nationals I have known weren't particulalry anti-American. In fact, without exception they wanted to work in the USA.

Posted by phil_b 2005-04-12 5:32:27 AM|| 2005-04-12 5:32:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 India's reflexive anti-Americanism is a legacy of our support for Pakistan and the Soviet-Indian axis during the Cold War. Ancient history, time to move forward, and the younger and more clear-sighted Indians see this.

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-04-12 9:49:50 AM|| 2005-04-12 9:49:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 phil_b: I think China is trying to pre-empt a US-India axis. The Indian nationals I have known weren't particulalry anti-American. In fact, without exception they wanted to work in the USA.

I could reword this quite easily and it would also be true: I think India is trying to pre-empt a US-China axis. The Chinese nationals I have known weren't particulalry anti-American. In fact, without exception they wanted to work in the USA.

Look - Americans are an open book. Orientals - Arabs, Indians, Chinese, et al - are much more guarded about what they say to outsiders. Indians (and the Chinese, et al) are pretty sectarian, in the religious, geographical and racial senses - the kind of universalist Anglo-American ethos we have cuts no ice with them. Let's face it - inside every Indian isn't an American (or Englishman) waiting to jump out.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-12 10:07:03 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-12 10:07:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 True. We need a diplomacy and a foreign policy elite that is attuned to Asian perspectives and modes of operation, not European ones.

Asian Century now. Long past time we shifted our foreign policy bandwidth, and ethnic composition of our foreign policy elite, toward Asia

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-04-12 10:10:36 AM|| 2005-04-12 10:10:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I thought two things when I read this. First, China might be pushing for India knowing it would be easier to derail Japan's bid if they don't seem to be simply blocking all new seats. Second, if China went to war over Tiawan they'd find their sea lanes crushed. Is there a reasonable way India could assist in getting oil from the MIddle East to China?

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-04-12 11:30:09 AM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2005-04-12 11:30:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 rjschwarz - seems like Pakistan's key, not India. Chinese are building pipelines to the west and are now participating in the building of terminals from the Gulf all the way to Burma.

Read this analysis from an Indian editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11chanda.html

Posted by thibaud (aka lex) 2005-04-12 12:37:00 PM|| 2005-04-12 12:37:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I dont think there is or was an IMINENT US-Indian axis to preempt, but at the same time general Chinese aggressiveness in foreign policy would tend to alarm all its neighbors, and lead to de facto US-Indian cooperation. US-Indian relations improved with the WOT, but were not helped by Iraq, or by Indian dissatisfaction with US support for Pakistan (though I dont see what reasonable alternative US policy on Pakistan the Indians present). China from 2000 until the last couple of months was playing the nice reasonable country, projecting soft power and trying to reconcile India, among others. Lately theyve been playing up nationalism, for domestic reasons I assume. With rising tensions with US and Japan (and by extension Australia) it would make sense to mend fences with India, even if no imminent US-Indian alliance.

There are still long run reasons for India and China to distrust each other, from competing needs for energy, to differing visions for Nepal, Burman, etc and the MSM seems to be missing this, IMHO. But resolving the frontier issue and improving economic relations seems like a win-win for now.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-04-12 2:10:31 PM|| 2005-04-12 2:10:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Zhang, both Indians and Chinese have a strong sense of their cultural and racial superiority. China is an economic powerhouse, while India is a succesful democracy. While the USA has to engage both, India is more of a natural ally. A post-communist China would be a different matter.

Posted by phil_b 2005-04-12 4:28:03 PM|| 2005-04-12 4:28:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 LH: Lately theyve been playing up nationalism, for domestic reasons I assume.

I think it's got nothing to do with short-term domestic political reasons and everything to do with the re-assertion of China's self-image. China - both the leadership and the people - sees itself as the paramount nation on earth. The Chinese now believe that they are powerful enough to throw their weight around. Deng Xiaoping never said that China should never unleash its ambitions - he said merely that China should bide its time. That was 20 years ago. For the Chinese leadership and much of the Chinese populace, that time has come.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-12 6:20:41 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-12 6:20:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 LH: US-Indian relations improved with the WOT, but were not helped by Iraq, or by Indian dissatisfaction with US support for Pakistan (though I dont see what reasonable alternative US policy on Pakistan the Indians present).

Indians fundamentally see Uncle Sam as an imperialist exploiter out to steal whatever it can. Bottom line is that they think we are rich because they are poor. India is cooperating in some areas with Uncle Sam, but with great discomfort. But they are doing so because they need the weaponry and the investment, not because of any common values, given that they think the principal American value is that of imperialist exploitation.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-12 6:27:15 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-12 6:27:15 PM|| Front Page Top

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