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2005-04-13 China-Japan-Koreas

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Posted by Fred 2005-04-13 00:00:00 AM|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Fred: On the other hand, the Chinese are typically Commie in their handling of both religion and minorities.

This is a Chinese, not Communist, tradition. China has always been extremely harsh in dealing with rebels. In the 1870's hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the Yunnan area were massacred, after they had surrendered.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-13 12:35:49 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-13 12:35:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Maybe so, ZF, but commies in general seem to have a lot of problems with religion or anything else that thinks it's bigger than the state.

Posted by Dan Darling 2005-04-13 12:38:55 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2005-04-13 12:38:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Ditto for Chinese "high culture" having a problem with ...

Posted by Edward Yee 2005-04-13 12:43:02 AM|| 2005-04-13 12:43:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The Ujgurs are said to be direct descendants from the Huns and they dominated Central Asia for centuries. At times the Chinese depended on Ujgur "protection". In the 18th and 19th century the Ujgurs rebelled over 40 times against Manchu domination. (The British supported the latest Manchu invasions to stop the Russian expansion in that region.)
It's true that the Ujgurs embraced Islam, but you will also find Buddhist Ujgurs. The conflict with China had little to do with Islam, but of course today Islam and ethnic conflicts seem to merge.
I suppose we would be more lenient with a Tibetan uprising.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-04-13 12:52:54 AM|| 2005-04-13 12:52:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 DD: Maybe so, ZF, but commies in general seem to have a lot of problems with religion or anything else that thinks it's bigger than the state.

China has *always* ruthlessly suppressed factions or religions that challenged the state, including wealthy families, powerful nobles, Buddhism, various folk religions and Christianity. It has traditionally met these challenges with the selective killings of the leadership and members of the rank-and-file (a tactic quaintly known as "sha ji xia hou" or killing the chicken to scare the monkey) or with large scale massacres if open rebellion breaks out.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-13 1:11:58 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-13 1:11:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 TGA: The conflict with China had little to do with Islam, but of course today Islam and ethnic conflicts seem to merge.

That is correct. China has been fighting Turks (Uighurs and all the Central Asian 'stans are Turkic) for millenia. It was kind of like the Indian wars (except the adversaries were more evenly matched), where the nomads would come back to find that their pastures had been taken over by Chinese settlers. China's far west was wrested away from the Turks, and I'm not referring to Xinjiang.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-13 1:18:16 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-13 1:18:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 A footnote here is that the Chinese themselves are also part Turkic in origin - the Tang dynasty was founded by sinified Turks, meaning Turks who had accepted Chinese customs.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2005-04-13 1:43:49 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-04-13 1:43:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 The report claims to unveil for the first time âthe complex architecture of law, regulation, and policy in Xinjiang that denies Uighurs religious freedom, and by extension freedom of association, assembly, and expression. Chinese policy and law enforcement stifle religious activity and thought even in school and at home.â

A note to Euros: send students to China.

Posted by gromgorru 2005-04-13 7:56:16 AM|| 2005-04-13 7:56:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Muslim separatists, you say? I don't see no human rights violations here.

Posted by BH 2005-04-13 10:03:25 AM|| 2005-04-13 10:03:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I don't understand the MSM and such having sympathy for the Uighurs. Like all muslim peoples seem to do, every step of the way when options lay in their path they took the wrong path. Lately they have been placing bombs in busses near Peking. It won't be long until the Olympics and the PRC doesn't want any of this activity to ruin that show. I can't see why the ROW would want the show ruined like Munich either.

Posted by 3dc 2005-04-13 1:12:02 PM|| 2005-04-13 1:12:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Like alot of wound up idiots, the limited knowledge, ignorance, and obstinancy just won't allow the Ulghurs to get savvy and pursue their aims through more effective means. For the effort, the PRC will stomp em to the last turban. Why would anyone expect the PRC not to do the one thing that it does seem to do best - control and order through brutality.

Posted by Tkat 2005-04-13 1:43:14 PM|| 2005-04-13 1:43:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 China's far west was wrested away from the Turks, and I'm not referring to Xinjiang. Zhang Fei, are you saying that the areas slightly east of Xinjian were once Turkish?

I guess everyplace was owned by someone else at some point but I hadn't heard that. My history books show the ancient Chinese Kingdoms (5 kingdoms?) and I thought they pretty much slopped on over to about the Xinjiang border. Of course the maps were line drawings and very simple so they might be wrong or I just misjudged how far west the borders were.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-04-13 4:44:04 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2005-04-13 4:44:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 The whole world belongs to me! Lol...

Posted by .Alley Oop 2005-04-13 4:49:04 PM|| 2005-04-13 4:49:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 RJSchwartz: areas WEST of Xinjiang were part of China at one time or another. Chinese control of the Silk Road went well west of Khotan during the Tang Dynasty. Uighurs are eastern Turks; Uighur country formed the northwestern border with China, and the Uighurs and Chinese had regular skirmishes.

BH: Knock it off.
The Chinese systematically oppress all minority groups of any stripe. The Han in China are probably the most racist people on earth. During the Mao era the government settled huge numbers of Han in the area and they took over the good housing and the good jobs.
The Uighur were mostly nominal Muslims, with a lot of folk religion mixed in. They did attack and destroy the small Christian Uighur community while Chiang Kai-Shek was busy trying to fight the Japanese. I'd be willing to bet, however, that without the ferocious oppression on the part of the Chinese Govt., the Turbans wouldn't have had a receptive audience. I get my information from somebody who lived there for 5 years.

Posted by mom 2005-04-13 7:14:01 PM|| [http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com] 2005-04-13 7:14:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Mom, there is no T in Schwarz. Schwarzkopf doesn't have a t, Schwarzenegger doesn't use a T, so why you inflicting one upon me?

I'm assuming you watched Brady Bunch and Gilligans Island and Sherwood Schwartz got embedded in there somehow but really, no T for me.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-04-13 7:38:30 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2005-04-13 7:38:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Mom: BH: Knock it off.

Sarcasm and irony plays a large part here - don't like it? Go somewhere else

Posted by Frank G 2005-04-13 8:39:25 PM|| 2005-04-13 8:39:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 The Chinese undoubtedly oppress their minorities, and the Muslim Uighur Turks are no exception. Then again, who needs more Islamists in central Asia.

The Chinese and the Uighurs - they deserve each other.

Posted by Glereper Craviter7929 2005-04-13 8:49:53 PM|| 2005-04-13 8:49:53 PM|| Front Page Top

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