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2005-07-28 Home Front: Culture Wars

"Over There" : A grunt's-eye view of war

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Posted by Steve 2005-07-28 11:21|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The stories I've read say actual vets consider it an insult. The show has them doing really, really stupid things, for example.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-07-28 12:05|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-07-28 12:05|| Front Page Top

#2 Mild Spoiler Alert:

I watched and thought it portrayed the military slightly negatively and the war somewhat more negatively. One of the main characters has a fight with his wife before leaving for Iraq. He comes across as a jerk. He also is supposed to be 22, but his wife has a kid who looks at least 10 -- not impossible, but odd. In country, one Sgt. bitches about being about to go home and being extended for 90 days -- also true, I'm sure, but clearly highlighting the negative. The Lt. was called (behind his back) Mad Cow -- he suffers from a brain-wasting disease according to Sarge. The rules of engagement seem a bit screwy -- some terrs are holed up in a mosque (strangely, a mosque with no minaret) and the soldiers get chastised for returning fire when fired upon. Sarge complains -- "We are getting shot at while some General 75 miles from here decides whether we can shoot back" -- as we know from Afghanistan, some lawyer (or General) can hold up timely action on a technicality. Later, there is a prolonged period of negotiation followed by a sandstorm and a terr attack. There's also a patrol with the soldiers in doorless Humvees and unarmored 5-ton trucks -- I'm sure that happened, but not so much any more. Of course they hit an IED and some plucky kid who joined the Army because his college football scholarship would have only paid for part of his education loses part of his leg. He is medevaced by a Huey -- possible, I suppose, but I've only seen BlackHawks doing evac. There's also a lot of focus on the 2 women -- "What are THEY doing here?" asks Sarge -- and whether they can cut it.

It's too early to deliver a final verdict, but the tone of the first episode was clearly consistent with the MSM line that morale is low and Iraq is complete chaos. I wonder what this series would be like if Arthur Chrenkoff collaborated with Michael Yon or Dave Bellon of The Green Side or Ausitin Bay.

Posted by Tibor 2005-07-28 12:11|| 2005-07-28 12:11|| Front Page Top

#3 The New York Times loved it! What more do you need to know?

Posted by Secret Master 2005-07-28 12:44|| 2005-07-28 12:44|| Front Page Top

#4 Thanks for the review Tibor. When I saw the previews for it, I automatically assumed it would portray the military and the war in a negative light. What else would I expect from Hollywood/TV MSM? Sorry to see I was right.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-07-28 13:03|| 2005-07-28 13:03|| Front Page Top

#5 I watched it also and expected more. Kinda cliched and sterotyped. And the Huey they did the medevac with had to be the first waxed Huey in a combat zone in US Army history. And with white skids!
All in all, I'll give it a few more looks but disappointing so far.

Posted by tu3031 2005-07-28 13:09|| 2005-07-28 13:09|| Front Page Top

#6 "...and Smoke, played by Kirk Jones (a.k.a. Sticky Fingaz, who spends much of his Army life stoned."
Whhaaaat? Every time I turned around, whilst stationed overseas, we were getting randomly piss-tested, for the eeee-vile weed. And someone known to be, or nailed as a pothead was about as popular as a child-molester, because once he/she was nailed on it, the investigators would be looking askance at all their friends, their unit, their known associates.
Either things have changed... or someone has just dusted off some old "Tour of Duty" scripts...

Posted by Sgt. Mom">Sgt. Mom 2005-07-28 13:09|| www.sgtstryker.com]">[www.sgtstryker.com] 2005-07-28 13:09|| Front Page Top

#7 Some quotes from the comments section at blackfive:

Rob:
"...Where were the true pro's? Nowhere, for the same reasons we've rolled in Afghanistan and in Iraq-- the media have no better understanding of what it takes to be this good of a fighting force than do the Taliban or any other murderous band of psychos we might butmp into...."

Some Soldier's Mom:
"...From my blog:
My friend Melinda (an Army wife) said: " My husband & I watched it. At twenty minutes past the hour, I looked at him and said, "well, now that they have run through every possible stereotype, what will they do for the next 40 minutes?" My husband spent most of his time pointing out inaccuracies or things that were too 'Hollywood'". And another Army wife said, "My husband watched this, thought it was cheesy, and unrealistic. He thought that was ok, because anything "too real" might not be great to watch."

So, Mel, they filled the other 40 minutes with gore and horror...

and yup... appeared to have covered all the bases:
white Columbia (Cornell?) grad (but called "Dim" 'cause he's stupid enough to be in the Army anyway?),

poor white southern kid that needs money for college (but he loves the Army),

ghetto kid,

over the edge (Sgt. Screamer) NCO,

by the book (idiot) NCO,

paternal captain,

tough girl,

young mother,

doper...

covered everyone? what?? the Army is apparently composed of just 18-22 yr olds? no career, dedicated soldier from middle class America that actually felt a duty to serve? ok, maybe in episode 2... that's when I guess we'll also get to meet that psycho "nothing happens in my town unless I say it happens" Sgt. in #2 as shown in the previews? I can't wait (sigh). But I'm certainly glad they dumped on al-Jazeera...

I can't say whether the battlefield depictions are accurate, I'll leave that for the vets to say... I'll give it another episode or two. I'm really more interested in the character development and how they portray our soldiers and the situations of which we are already aware -- I picked up the references to Abu Ghraib... and the shooting from the mosque... and the needing permission to return fire which may have been less than accurate, but also the references to incident reports and the paperwork when gunfire is exchanged...

My only other comment is that the theme song SUCKED. terrible. mothers are crying? fathers are sighing? what the hell is that? the ABCs of rhymin' simon? they should sh*tcan it and find something better. I think they were going for the "Suicide is Painless" (M.A.S.H.) feel but missed entirely. the words are imbecilic and the music unmemorable. awful..."

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-07-28 13:16|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-07-28 13:16|| Front Page Top

#8 "Staying alive, that's what matters."

Nope - and this shows the fundamental discoonect. Executing the Mission is what matters. and thats why soldiers give their lives for each other. Staying alive is PART of that, but not the ONLY PART of "what matters".

"and Smoke .. who spends much of his Army life stoned."

Yeah, right. So they never piss test the guy, and his squadmates dont mind going into a combat zone with a liability like this assclown of a character, aand never report his ass...

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Hollywierd gets it wrong again.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-07-28 13:20|| 2005-07-28 13:20|| Front Page Top

#9 ...Smoke...who spends much of his Army life stoned.

Ah, the ghost of Vietnam raises its familiar head.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-07-28 13:25|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com ]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com ] 2005-07-28 13:25|| Front Page Top

#10 C'mon, lighten up guys. Is there anyone who thinks Hill Street Blues was an accurate portrayal of a cop's daily life. It ain't supposed to be Band of Brothers you know, it's TV - like fiction? you know entertainment?

Posted by Grolutch Snoting8436 2005-07-28 13:36|| 2005-07-28 13:36|| Front Page Top

#11 It ain't supposed to be Band of Brothers you know, it's TV - like fiction? you know entertainment?

That's not what it's being billed as:

Instead, "Over There" supports the troops the best way it can. By telling their stories honestly.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-07-28 13:45|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-07-28 13:45|| Front Page Top

#12 Come on - Robert, When did you ever believe TV advertising?

Posted by Gleresing Thromp4004 2005-07-28 13:52|| 2005-07-28 13:52|| Front Page Top

#13 at leestn tehy got the "blak man in em wite mans armee" line snuk in their. :)

Posted by muck4doo 2005-07-28 13:58|| http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]">[http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2005-07-28 13:58|| Front Page Top

#14 If someone is doing a portrayal of a currernt situation, it should at least be reasonably accurate. I watched it and it was crap. I turned it off after a half an hour. The soldiers were inept and poorly trained. The command structure was inconsistent. The ROE and battlefield stuff was just BS. (You have a large force firing from a mosque. First, they said that they could get no aircover...BS....then they say that they can't fire back because they are going to negotiate with the haji's....maybe, but probably BS, because in almost every case if someone is taking significant fire from a mosque, they will level the place, (even if it is the 4,768th most holy place in Islam). The characters were cartoons. Having seen Hill Street Blues, I hoped for better. This was garbage and had the Vietnam prism all over it.

Posted by remoteman 2005-07-28 14:08|| 2005-07-28 14:08|| Front Page Top

#15 Mucky, I had forgotten about that stupid line. "Blacks never succeed in the US military, right General Powell?"

Remoteman, I also had forgotten about the "no aircover available in our sector" line.

Posted by Tibor 2005-07-28 14:15|| 2005-07-28 14:15|| Front Page Top

#16 TheWaPo review noted the soldiers were drinking out of *plastic canteens*. When I help the USO distribute goody bags to the deploying soldiers, I always check out the groovy desert camo Camelbaks...

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2005-07-28 14:25|| 2005-07-28 14:25|| Front Page Top

#17 Call it what you will but I think this type of TV entertainment at this time is just plain wrong and moreover, sickening.

Posted by MunkarKat 2005-07-28 14:27|| 2005-07-28 14:27|| Front Page Top

#18 . . . someone has just dusted off some old "Tour of Duty" scripts . . .

IIRC, the first season of Tour of Duty was pretty good. The second year, the scriptwriters were all replaced by the second string from the China Beach writing staff, and the quality went down quicker than a Huey with a main gearbox failure.

Posted by Mike 2005-07-28 14:56|| 2005-07-28 14:56|| Front Page Top

#19 And Tour of Duty had a catchy theme, too. Rolling Stones Paint It Black

Posted by Bobby 2005-07-28 15:03|| 2005-07-28 15:03|| Front Page Top

#20 So, when does Colonel Flagg make an appearance?

Posted by Pappy 2005-07-28 15:47|| 2005-07-28 15:47|| Front Page Top

#21 The characters were cartoons. Having seen Hill Street Blues

You could have stopped right there. What was HSB but a cartoon? Thought the show was great when I was a kid, but when I see the reruns, boy was the acting awful! Ed Marinaro, call your agent! What? He won't return your calls?

BTW, haven't seen the show yet, but any military show that depicts the troops constantly complaining is pretty accurate. Also, on my 2nd deployment, one of my men did get a "I'm 3 months pregnant" letter during the 5th month of our cruise.

Posted by Dreadnought 2005-07-28 15:58|| 2005-07-28 15:58|| Front Page Top

#22 I'm just waiting for the grunts to break out in song, like the police in Bochco's "Cop Rock" did.

Posted by growler 2005-07-28 16:05|| 2005-07-28 16:05|| Front Page Top

#23 I'll just keep reading Michael Yon, then. I never bothered to research Bochco's liberal bona fides. I'm sure they are there.

Posted by eLarson 2005-07-28 16:18|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2005-07-28 16:18|| Front Page Top

#24 Watched the first ten minutes of classical Hollyweird/Leftwood stereotype characture of soldiers. If the same people who write this stuff watched similar stereotyping of any other group there would have been an uproar about the bigots who write such things. Its a LLL's wet dream of what soldiers are.

There are great stories out there [re: Michael Yon], but Hollyweird is not going to deliver them. From the same people who's genius is on display this summer at the box office, remakes and sequels.

Posted by Glater Uninter1262 2005-07-28 16:22|| 2005-07-28 16:22|| Front Page Top

#25 Our fighting men and women are America's very best selflessly serving and bringing honor to us all.

Hollywierd? (put your desscription here)

Posted by Captain America 2005-07-28 16:42|| 2005-07-28 16:42|| Front Page Top

#26 So, when does Colonel Flagg make an appearance?

They'll probably be sending him to look for Col. Kurtz.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-07-28 17:21|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-07-28 17:21|| Front Page Top

#27 "Saigon, shit. I'm still only in Saigon..."

Cue the Huey soundtrack! It's a full blown 'Nam flashback!

Posted by Capt. Willard 2005-07-28 19:35|| 2005-07-28 19:35|| Front Page Top

#28 At some point some of the troops will return from Iraq, buy a $3,000 digital MiniDV camera and computer with editing software and cut their own movie.

Nam has the explosion of books. I believe with the new and cheap technology Afghanistan and Iraq will have an explosion of movies. I wouldn't doubt if a few guys have more portable less expensive digital camcorders now to film stuff.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-07-28 22:47|| 2005-07-28 22:47|| Front Page Top

#29 They'll probably be sending him to look for Col. Kurtz.

I first read that as Col. Klink. (Hogans Heroes....). So when will Sgt. Shultz show up?

What else did you expect from Hollywood these days? Something which shows American in a good light? What are you smoking?

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-07-28 22:59|| 2005-07-28 22:59|| Front Page Top

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