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2005-08-03 Iraq-Jordan
American Journalist Is Shot to Death in Iraq
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Posted by True German Ally 2005-08-03 02:30|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 He stuck his nose too far into the 'stench'. The Sunni's have it coming; and I don't need to know how the Shiites want to equalize the situation!!
Posted by smn 2005-08-03 02:41||   2005-08-03 02:41|| Front Page Top

#2 Iraqi terror networks pay close attention to the copy produced by foreign writers. Vincent is probably a victim of death-by-feedback. Condolences to his family.
Posted by Vlad the Muslim Impaler 2005-08-03 02:43||   2005-08-03 02:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Condolences to Vincent and his family. This Middle East transformation thing is really going to take decades. They're just not ready for free speech and a free press. Too many thugs, even in places like Basra, never mind Falluja
Posted by John in Tokyo 2005-08-03 02:54||   2005-08-03 02:54|| Front Page Top

#4 boy, the Brits are doing a real good job down there. why don't we just turn that zone over to the Iranians? I think it would be difficult to distinguish the results.
Posted by Rory B. Bellows 2005-08-03 03:42||   2005-08-03 03:42|| Front Page Top

#5 Very sad. I know I had read that someone was looking to kill a US reporter. He may have be the one they picked.

If al-Sadr's thugs are behind it it's just one more bit of bad karma that will get paid back.
Posted by Sock Puppet 0’ Doom 2005-08-03 03:49||   2005-08-03 03:49|| Front Page Top

#6 boy, the Brits are doing a real good job down there

That'd better be irony Mr Bellows - the Brits have done a damn good job in Basra - it's only a shame no-one's media wish to report it.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 05:15||   2005-08-03 05:15|| Front Page Top

#7 Democracy is a process. Its unrealistic to assume it will produce perfection immediately. There are going to be secular-religious tensions for a long time. Get used to it.
Posted by phil_b 2005-08-03 05:21||   2005-08-03 05:21|| Front Page Top

#8 the Brits have done a damn good job in Basra - it's only a shame no-one's media wish to report it.

A shame, indeed. I guess Big Media is too busy trying to get interviews with murderous thugs like Basayev to pay any attention. There *are* people, though, who are both grateful for and proud of the British role.
Posted by SteveS 2005-08-03 05:42||   2005-08-03 05:42|| Front Page Top

#9 Agreed. I certainly am thankful the UK is with us.
Posted by .com 2005-08-03 07:57||   2005-08-03 07:57|| Front Page Top

#10 Tony UK: That'd better be irony Mr Bellows - the Brits have done a damn good job in Basra - it's only a shame no-one's media wish to report it.

Basra is supposed to be a safe zone. I guess it's safe - for British troops. Steven Vincent was shot, probably by the Shiite religious thugs that the British contingent has been standing up as an integral part of their softly-softly approach. In helping Shiite gangsters turn Basra into a Tehran on the Shatt Al Arab, the Brits have pretty much set up the groundwork for an Arab version of Iran. I don't blame UK troops. I blame Tony Blair. I blame Labor. I blame an entrenched philosophy of multiculturalism. A Tory government would have laid down the law.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 07:58|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 07:58|| Front Page Top

#11 And a Tory government would have seen a lot more body bags coming home.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 08:10||   2005-08-03 08:10|| Front Page Top

#12 Rest in peace, Steven. Rest.

You will be missed.
Posted by USMC_Vet">USMC_Vet  2005-08-03 08:10|| htp://wordunheard.com]">[htp://wordunheard.com]  2005-08-03 08:10|| Front Page Top

#13 Yup, would wish to echo that.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 08:12||   2005-08-03 08:12|| Front Page Top

#14 Howard UK: And a Tory government would have seen a lot more body bags coming home.

The point of a war is not to minimize body count - it is to achieve vital political ends. The British body count in this war does not remotely approach the numbers in the Malayan Emergency or the Korean War, but the stakes are far higher. Part of the British approach may be the result of a Foreign Office view that does not see Iran, or regimes like Iran, as a threat.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 08:19|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 08:19|| Front Page Top

#15 Well, they nicked our boats - we don't need telling. The thin line we provide in Basra has stood the test - I think all forces in the South have had their testing time with regard to Shia fundamentalism. I'm sure the spectre dare even raise its head in Najaf, Karbala and other places where US troops have a presence. Give people their freedom and they may not necessarily vote for whom you expected them to. What evidence is their for saying Basra's regime mimics that of the mad Mullahs' in Iran?
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 08:34||   2005-08-03 08:34|| Front Page Top

#16 In retrospect, Steven Vincent may have taken on too much risk in not embedding with British troops. Basra may have seemed like a safe area, but Michael Yon, an ex-SEAL, has always been embedded with American troops even in the Kurdish areas. Now we are finding out the truth - thanks to British laxity, Basra is a cesspool just like the Sunni cesspools around Baghdad - the only difference is that the Shiites are quiescent because we are about to hand power over to them.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 08:35|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 08:35|| Front Page Top

#17 Should I put Ken Bigley's death down to U.S. 'laxity' ?
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 08:39||   2005-08-03 08:39|| Front Page Top

#18 Here's a link to his stories.

He was all over the Basra situation and the Shiite religious parties trying to dominate local politics.
Posted by JAB 2005-08-03 09:09||   2005-08-03 09:09|| Front Page Top

#19 Eason Jordan is going to be all over this one.

It's either the U.S./British military killing journalists or the U.S./British military didn't provide enough protection. You can't win with the Demoncats.

It's ironic how the journalists hates the military until they need protection. Kind of like abusing your dog everyday for barking and then get mad at the dog for not anything when someone breaks in.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-03 09:35||   2005-08-03 09:35|| Front Page Top

#20 And we're left with neo-marxist anti-American reporters who sit behind their desks in the States or even risk the bar at the Baghdad Hilton or the Green Zone to proclaim the failure of the Iraqi Adventure. Squealing like a stuck pig when anyone challenges their knowledge about anything going on there on the ground other than their freshing polish shoes. That those people even pull a pay check under the guise of 'reporter' or 'journalist' is the crime here. Wormtongue or Mouth of Sauron would be more fitting in title and fate.
Posted by Thruper Snesh2876 2005-08-03 09:42||   2005-08-03 09:42|| Front Page Top

#21 ZF,

I agree with you until 7.7.2005. However, after 7.7.2005 the British are in no mood to pass out candy even in Basra. Tater needs to go down, once and for all.

I think there is going to be a major show down coming in Iraq. It may even involve a one two U.S./British simultaneous punch the terrs are not going to forget for a long time.

No matter what happens, one thing is for sure, PC in the Iraq War is officially over.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-03 09:47||   2005-08-03 09:47|| Front Page Top

#22 
There we are, the blame game has started. I don't thing that pointing our finger to all angles of the azimuth will help in any ways. The fact is Writer Steven Vincent was killed by violence and death loving islamist thugs, whichever faction they are from. But not by the Brits.
Posted by SwissTex 2005-08-03 10:17||   2005-08-03 10:17|| Front Page Top

#23 Howard UK: Should I put Ken Bigley's death down to U.S. 'laxity' ?

Ken Bigley was smack in the middle of the badlands. American troops were swatting terrorists left and right in the heart of Baghdad, and are still doing so. Steven Vincent is dead. What the heck are British troops doing to take care of business? The UK policy of "they won't bother the Shiite thugs if the Shiite thugs don't bother them" is great for force protection, but doesn't really do anything for Iraqi civilians and certainly did not do anything for Steven Vincent.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 10:22|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 10:22|| Front Page Top

#24 SwissTex: There we are, the blame game has started. I don't thing that pointing our finger to all angles of the azimuth will help in any ways. The fact is Writer Steven Vincent was killed by violence and death loving islamist thugs, whichever faction they are from. But not by the Brits.

My concern is not with Steven Vincent. His death is just part of the stench of the deliberate British policy in Basra of not stomping on Sadr wannabes. I never wanted British participation in Iraq because I saw this coming from a mile away. In return for a few hundred fewer GI casualties, we may be letting Iraq go down the drain.

The Brits had the stomach for war in Korea, where they lost a thousand dead. They had it in Malaya, where they lost over a thousand men. But they don't have it any more. This is not your father's Great Britain.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 10:28|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 10:28|| Front Page Top

#25 To Howard UK:

You seem a bit thin skined if the British liberation style in Basra comes in for a some criticism. The Brits are said to be using the 'softly-softly" approach in Basra. I'm reading from people on the ground that Basra is now nothing more than "little Tehran". I don't deem that a positive development. Now I'm reading that cops in your country are now required to take their shoes off before raiding a Muslim mosque or home and that raids on mosques are a no-no during prayer time. And you wonder why Basra is now called "little Tehran"? Please, spare me the softly-softly approach, okay?
Posted by Mark Z. 2005-08-03 10:53||   2005-08-03 10:53|| Front Page Top

#26 What the heck happened to the Land of Hope and Glory*, that force protection is its primary mission in Iraq?

Dear Land of Hope, thy hope is crowned.
God make thee mightier yet!
On Sov'ran brows, beloved, renowned,
Once more thy crown is set.
Thine equal laws, by Freedom gained,
Have ruled thee well and long;
By Freedom gained, by Truth maintained,
Thine Empire shall be strong.

Land of Hope and Glory,
Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee,
Who are born of thee?
Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty,
Make thee mightier yet.

Thy fame is ancient as the days,
As Ocean large and wide:
A pride that dares, and heeds not praise,
A stern and silent pride:
Not that false joy that dreams content
With what our sires have won;
The blood a hero sire hath spent
Still nerves a hero son.

* Sung to the tune of Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 10:58|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 10:58|| Front Page Top

#27 Don't let a few back peekers worry 'ya Howard. We're with ya.
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-03 11:16||   2005-08-03 11:16|| Front Page Top

#28 Aye, tossers the lot. I don't think you'd call the Scots who fought off the mooks at Al-Amarra 'lax'. I think we have to agree that the two forces have different styles and very different theatres of operation. I would gladly admit that PC is a problem in the UK and have posted on this theme on many occasions. I am not thin skinned but will not take criticism of our forces' approach. Basra may be 'little Tehran' but its peaceful. Certainly the film I've seen of the troops in Basra shows an open society and very little hostility to our troops.

PS. Don't quote Land of Hope and Glory at me, prick.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 11:34||   2005-08-03 11:34|| Front Page Top

#29 That's another way to put it.
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-03 11:36||   2005-08-03 11:36|| Front Page Top

#30 Zhang Fei is right. None of our countries are that of our fathers.

We have remade our nations and not in all ways for the better.

As Islamofascism is like to Nazism, can you imagine any PC crap in the Hitler era?

Japanese and Germans were interred in camps.

The day I see Islamic camps is the day we have taken this war seriously.
Posted by anon1 2005-08-03 11:46||   2005-08-03 11:46|| Front Page Top

#31 As I said on RB the other day - we should do as we did in the Second World War and in Ulster - use internment.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 11:50||   2005-08-03 11:50|| Front Page Top

#32 Howard,

I am with you also. But you have got to stop making appeasement statments like "Basra may be 'little Tehran' but its peaceful. Certainly the film I've seen of the troops in Basra shows an open society and very little hostility to our troops."

I know you are by no means, an appeaser, but the quote above make you sound like one.

London also seemed "peaceful" until 7.7.2005. I, like many here, are NOT the least bit interested in FALSE Peace.

BTW, there is no need to make this thread personal.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-03 11:52||   2005-08-03 11:52|| Front Page Top

#33 I just don't see where all the hysteria over Basra has suddenly come from. What about Amarra? Surely, a far more dangerous hotbed of Shia radicalism than Basra. Certainly give our troops more hassle than they receive in Basra - and I seem to remember us not being too PC to avoid chopping a few of them to pieces.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 12:00||   2005-08-03 12:00|| Front Page Top

#34 Civil War is imminent.

And whether anyone here wants to admit it or not right now. Handing complete power over to the Shias is comparable to letting the fox in the henhouse. Yes, the Badr Brigades of the Grand Ayatolla Sistani will assist us in running the Sunnis insurgency into the ground, but what of the open door to Iran? Sistani is an Iranian tool.

The Badr Brigades are who Vincent was investigating, and they are all trained by the Iranian Red Guard. IMVHO the current insurgency is an extension of the Iraq Iran war. With roles reversed in many ways. This time the Sunnis get the short end of the stick and the Shias are up. Under Saddam, quite the opposite.

And yes just like the last time we are providing support, but for the opposite side.

Do we really think the Sistanis and Sadrs of Iraq are going to close the door to their Iranian friends once they have power? Hell no they're not.

We are playing a dangerous game, and just like in Afghanistan in the 80s we are being forced to make some deals with the devil as it were. Hopefully we are not enabling another Osama or worse.

Sistani, Chalabi, Sadr, we're letting them all play for the sake of a temporary peace. But it is only temporary. Democracy in Iraq will be like lingerie. Its expensive, and looks damn good, and we have put a whole shitload of effort into seeing it, but it will be on the floor real soon.And that's when the real action will begin.

We may very well be fighting the very troops we've trained in Iraq in Iran in less than ten years.

Just my two cents.

And notice I ain't offering any alternatives, and I don't envy those who must make these decisions.

EP
Posted by ElvisHasLeftTheBuilding 2005-08-03 12:04||   2005-08-03 12:04|| Front Page Top

#35 How on earth did this become about questioning the quality of British troops? Meow!

The reporter was courageous - but what was he doing there days after the piece was printed? I wonder if he knew when it was to be published? You think he might have laid low for a bit afterward. But here I am blaming the victim, shame on me. Obviously Vincent had buns of steel and we are all better for it. If we see more corruption in Basra, it probably has more to do with the fact that Vincent had the courage to go out there and find it and report it - rather than it being better or worse than perhaps somewhere else.

It's nothing personal Howard - shrug it off.
Posted by 2b 2005-08-03 12:06||   2005-08-03 12:06|| Front Page Top

#36 In retrospect, Steven Vincent may have taken on too much risk in not embedding with British troops. -- Zhang Fei

Zhang, you would do well to read his book. You would then understand his reasoning for what he did and was doing. While I did not entirely agree with what he wrote, I respect what he was attempting to accomplish.
Posted by DragonFly 2005-08-03 12:06||   2005-08-03 12:06|| Front Page Top

#37 Civil War is not imminent.

Sunni's plan to participate in elections

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Sunni's are launching full scale plans to participate in the next election, regarding the constitution.

There is still a fat boy (Al Sadr) that needs to be charged with another murder in regards to Stephen in Basra. And I think this time something will happen to Al Sadr. Steven made a lot of Iraqi friends.
Posted by RG 2005-08-03 13:51||   2005-08-03 13:51|| Front Page Top

#38 Sistani, Chalabi, Sadr, we're letting them all play for the sake of a temporary peace.

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just isn't the same...
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2005-08-03 13:55|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2005-08-03 13:55|| Front Page Top

#39 Zhang Fei, you obviously are a cocksucker for having a go at UK troops and for quoting Land of Hope and Glory. Our boys have done and are doing a cracking job down in Basra, we have the best forces on the world. Wind ure neck in..b4 it gets snapped.
Posted by Nockeyes Nilberforce 2005-08-03 14:26||   2005-08-03 14:26|| Front Page Top

#40 Shoulda mashed that Tater long ago.....
Posted by Wholuger Uloluque6997 2005-08-03 14:28||   2005-08-03 14:28|| Front Page Top

#41 NN: Zhang Fei, you obviously are a cocksucker for having a go at UK troops and for quoting Land of Hope and Glory. Our boys have done and are doing a cracking job down in Basra, we have the best forces on the world. Wind ure neck in..b4 it gets snapped.

Anyone who says his country has the best forces in the world is painting a target on his chest. In the 20th century, British forces have been kicked out of more countries than you can shake a stick at. Does anyone really think Britain would have evacuated the Jewel of the Crown (India) if British forces could have hung on? If you want to say the British forces are, man-for-man, the toughest guys around, fine. But what does that really mean? That we should include a new tough guy competition in the Olympics? Militaries are set up to fight (and win) wars, not get involved in competitions of primarily academic interest (or, as in Iraq, ignore Shiite thugs while hoping that the Shiite thugs will ignore them). By that measure, British forces are good for little more than peacekeeping and fighting second rate guerrilla forces like the IRA.

If you want to say that British forces are the best in the sense that they can do anything they are told to do, that is, of course, a rank untruth. Britain couldn't prevent China from taking Hong Kong back. It couldn't hang on to India, or to any of the territories east of Aden. What can British forces do? Beat up on banana republics like Argentina and share the glory for Gulf Wars I and II.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 14:40|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 14:40|| Front Page Top

#42 meow, hiss!
Posted by 2b 2005-08-03 14:42||   2005-08-03 14:42|| Front Page Top

#43 Ceasefire to collect the dead ideas and wounded egos?
Posted by MunkarKat 2005-08-03 14:46||   2005-08-03 14:46|| Front Page Top

#44 ZF, nice history lesson, you are still a cock.
Posted by Nockeyes Nilberforce 2005-08-03 15:05||   2005-08-03 15:05|| Front Page Top

#45 Course you can't get kicked out of countries and continents unless you were there right? LOL It's like saying the PLA was never kicked out of Portugal because the PLA is invincible. :)
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-03 15:11||   2005-08-03 15:11|| Front Page Top

#46 Shipman, well said...
Posted by Nockeyes Nilberforce 2005-08-03 15:16||   2005-08-03 15:16|| Front Page Top

#47 Black Watch and other British units provided excellent support of various operations within Iraq. The vast majority of terrorists infiltrate from the west of Iraq instead of infiltrating through Brittish held areas. US forces are now repositioning to the west and taking hard hits this week as they do so.

Sistani was the one that got Al Sadr out of trouble when Al Sadr was holed up in a major mosque in Basra. It is Al Sadr's group who killed Stephen. Not the British. With store owners and now a prominent reporter being murdered by uniform police (Al Sadr sympathizers) the British and the coalition will adjust and deal with the cock roaches.

The many Iraqi friends that Stephen had will put pressure on the Iraqi segments there as well.
Posted by RG 2005-08-03 15:19||   2005-08-03 15:19|| Front Page Top

#48 Shipman: Course you can't get kicked out of countries and continents unless you were there right? LOL It's like saying the PLA was never kicked out of Portugal because the PLA is invincible. :)

The British *were* the best in the world. If NN had limited himself to "we had the best forces on the world", I would have left him alone. The PLA was no great shakes, but it is possibly the only light infantry force to have pushed the US military hundreds of miles south in the face of American air, artillery and tank superiority. In the 20th century, the British military spent most of its time getting its butt kicked by the Germans, and kicked out of its colonial holdings. Sic transit gloria mundi. And the British military's period of gloire is no more. We're talking about the present, not the past, since we can only live in the present.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 15:23|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 15:23|| Front Page Top

#49 Yeah, maybe you're right ZF, Brits fading into the Sunset. This is HMS Victorious going into that quite grave with D-5 Missile tubes.


victorious of empire.
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-03 15:31||   2005-08-03 15:31|| Front Page Top

#50 In the present, I greatly appreciate having the SAS, the Royal Marines and the Black Watch on our side.
Posted by Matt 2005-08-03 15:32||   2005-08-03 15:32|| Front Page Top

#51 Well, one thing is for sure. The spotlight is now on the Basra police and how the Brits have allowed such a mistake to happen. This is truely bad news.
I see the Brits leaving Basra next year by climbing aboard helicopters from the embassy roof.
Posted by wxjames 2005-08-03 15:37||   2005-08-03 15:37|| Front Page Top

#52 lemme guess ZF...some hot girl with a British accent dumped you? Why don't you just get it over with and tell the British posters that your penis is bigger than theirs?

Ditto what Matt said.
Posted by 2b 2005-08-03 15:46||   2005-08-03 15:46|| Front Page Top

#53 ZF, I could go to your level and bring up some wars/battles in recent history that didn't go the way the US wanted, but I won't. I have too much respect for the soldiers (British and US) in Iraq to waste space on this website slagging off each others military. The response of others to your comments tells me your opinion is not a true reflection of your countrymen.
Posted by Nockeyes Nilberforce 2005-08-03 15:52||   2005-08-03 15:52|| Front Page Top

#54 Shipman: Yeah, maybe you're right ZF, Brits fading into the Sunset. This is HMS Victorious going into that quite grave with D-5 Missile tubes.

This certainly helped them hang on to Hong Kong. It certainly deterred a Latin American banana republic from invading the Falklands. Thanks to this display of British power, Steven Vincent and hundreds of Arabs in Basra are really alive in an undisclosed location. Kim Jong Il has nukes, too - is his military able to do anything he tells it to do? Hey - North Korea and Britain do have something in common - rank impotence.

In the 20th century, only three of the major powers have had a consistent record of either political realignments or territorial adjustments in their favor - Russia, China and the US. Russia's czarist-era empire is gone. China has gained territory from almost every one of its neighbors except Russia. Uncle Sam has removed unfriendly regimes in Panama, Grenada, the Dominican Republic, Iraq, Afghanistan and extended its influence through Central Europe, the Balkans, Asia and Africa, much of which used to be Britain's backyard. I have left Britain out - because for Britain - the lyrics of the WWI-era anthem Land of Hope and Glory, when sung in the present context, could almost be said to mock Britain's present circumstances.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 15:54|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 15:54|| Front Page Top

#55 I was upset and tired last night when I wrote that, and, reading it the next day, it was a bit harsh. A bit. I'm sure the Brits are doing a better job than the Black Turbans in Tehran would do.

The success of the occupation will be measured 10,20,40 years from now. I'm afraid that the Brits aren't doing their part to instill the values, norms, procudures, what have you, that will be necessary for Iraq in the next century. It reminds me a little of Terry Pratchett's Discworld city of Ankh-Morpork, where balance of responsibility for peace and order in the city is borne by the Theives' Guild -- pay your yearly money to the guild, and there will be no problem. If you don't pay, fair game. And any unlicenced theives will be quickly dispatched by the Guild.

Another practical effect of this hands-off policy, besides Vincent's assassination, is letting Jack the Ripper (link) run loose in Basra. And this, I stress, is only what we can see in the short term. I strongly feel that the Brits are frittering away a chance to build a strong institutions in their area.

Not only that, but we have to put up with aperiodic lectures (link) from General Sir Michael Jackson on how heavy handed (link) US troops are. That especially sticks in my craw. (I'm not sure why my links show up in bold - that's why I mark them so. Is it firefox?)
Posted by Rory B. Bellows 2005-08-03 15:57||   2005-08-03 15:57|| Front Page Top

#56 2b: lemme guess ZF...some hot girl with a British accent dumped you? Why don't you just get it over with and tell the British posters that your penis is bigger than theirs?

Actually, no. I'm just tired of incessant British yapping about how great they are and how stupid and incompetent Americans are - I like to put them in their place every so often.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 15:57|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 15:57|| Front Page Top

#57 for ZF's axe


Posted by Anon American 2005-08-03 15:59||   2005-08-03 15:59|| Front Page Top

#58 good thinking. Howard UK and the other rantburg posters were sure in need of that.
Posted by 2b 2005-08-03 16:01||   2005-08-03 16:01|| Front Page Top

#59 2b: meow, hiss!

That would be if I called him ugly. I put the relevant facts on the table and gave him a chance to respond. His response was to resort to obscenity. Now we're talking meow, hiss.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 16:02|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 16:02|| Front Page Top

#60 I recommend the two of you hit the pub, have a brew and bury the axe. Let it go.
Posted by 2b 2005-08-03 16:05||   2005-08-03 16:05|| Front Page Top

#61 I can't blame the brits, hiring criminals that search for foreigners, and get paid by terrorist/kidnappers is very hard to stop.
Posted by DEEK 2005-08-03 16:13||   2005-08-03 16:13|| Front Page Top

#62 After thoroughly reading all the comments, I'd like to clarify -- I'm questioning British policy here, not the quality or bravery of British soldiers. I sincerely wish the British to be successful in their mission in Iraq. I believe they are capable of getting tough and I hope they do now.

I see some similarities in the US administration of Sicily/S. Italy during the Second World War. The US replaced one form of despotism, Mussolini's form, with another, the mafia's version. While this certainly saved many GI's lives, and secured lines of communication, this policy was short-sighted. While the locals were certainly friendly (one prominent man even demanding to be annexed to the US), the ways of the mafia ensured that Sicily and Southern Italy would be in the grip of grinding poverty for many years. The Italian state only recently came to grips with the Mafia problem. The economic retardation caused by the mafia has probably played a role in the coninued appeal of communism among Italian voters.

The primary difference between Sicily '45 and Basra '05 is of course that Sicily is an Island. The Mafia dons answered only to themselves, while the corrupting elements in Basra are sponsored by a hostile power across the Shatt al-Arab. Which is the crux of the entire Iraq problem, really. Security promlems such as this must be attended to immediately. There is no ocean to act as a buffer. The entire British and American defence philosophy is different in this regard.
Posted by Rory B. Bellows 2005-08-03 16:37||   2005-08-03 16:37|| Front Page Top

#63 Mr R Bellows, I apologise. I think'm we need beeers.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 17:10||   2005-08-03 17:10|| Front Page Top

#64 Actually, no. I'm just tired of incessant British yapping about how great they are and how stupid and incompetent Americans are - I like to put them in their place every so often.

Heh.
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 17:12||   2005-08-03 17:12|| Front Page Top

#65 Mike Sylwester, I hope you're happy now! I took 'em on, I coulda been someone...
Posted by Howard UK 2005-08-03 17:17||   2005-08-03 17:17|| Front Page Top

#66 LOL Howard.

I say anyone who puts their ass on the line deserves my respect. The methods of their leadership ant their tactics I'll leave to my betters.

Oh yea, screw Tater and his goons.
Posted by Sock Puppet 0’ Doom 2005-08-03 17:39||   2005-08-03 17:39|| Front Page Top

#67 I could care less about who's military is the best all I know is that if we don't get are act together,the Isalmonuts win and I sure as hell don't want them to.
Posted by djohn66 2005-08-03 17:50||   2005-08-03 17:50|| Front Page Top

#68 Hear, hear, djohn66

Mr R Bellows, I apologise. No apology necessary. I think'm we need beeers. Mmmm. Beer.
Posted by Rory B. Bellows 2005-08-03 17:58||   2005-08-03 17:58|| Front Page Top

#69 Well, well. A contentious thread has resulted in the formation of the Anglosphere Beer Drinking Society, Ltd. Confusion to the enemy!

(Certain French, Germans, Canadians and Ozzies also welcome.)
Posted by Matt 2005-08-03 18:14||   2005-08-03 18:14|| Front Page Top

#70 Elvis, your comment got lost in the acrimony, but it was the most perceptive. I would add one thing, Sadr and others may well be Iranian funded puppets, but don't assume all shias are, even those who look to Teheran for support. The Iraqi Shiaas are surrounded by historically hostile Sunnis, except for Iran. Its a dangerous neighbourhood for the world's first shia Arab controlled state.
Posted by phil_b 2005-08-03 18:23||   2005-08-03 18:23|| Front Page Top

#71 Another British Loss..... LOL!
page7_2
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-03 19:11||   2005-08-03 19:11|| Front Page Top

#72 The Iraqi Shiaas are surrounded by historically hostile Sunnis, except for Iran.

And we did so well by them and the Kurds at the end of the last war...
Posted by Pappy 2005-08-03 19:18||   2005-08-03 19:18|| Front Page Top

#73 Thanks again, Bush Senior!
Posted by docob 2005-08-03 19:20||   2005-08-03 19:20|| Front Page Top

#74 Khalilzad worked wonders in Afghanistan. He stood Hamid Karzai up and thwacked all the other contenders, having sized up Karzai as the best guy for American interests in the country. Too bad Bremer was in Iraq - he should have been posted to Afghanistan and Khalilzad to Iraq. Although Khalilzad's posting to Iraq is a plus, he has arrived too late to be kingmaker. Bremer picked the wrong guy (Allawi), and caved in too soon with respect to Iraq's status.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-03 23:39|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-03 23:39|| Front Page Top

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