Article

2005-12-03 India-Pakistan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by john 2005-12-03 06:10|| || Front Page|| [10 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I don't like to be too technical, but the real question here is..... How Many?

Posted by Shipman 2005-12-03 12:06|| 2005-12-03 12:06|| Front Page Top

#2 I'm assuming the AESA is too heavy to fit into the LCA.
This order will only be for the Super Hornets if purchased.

Reports claim the fighter order will be increased to 200. Speculation is 60/140 mix from two vendors.

Say 60 Super Hornets (so 60 AESA radars) with percentage offset contracts given to Indian companies and 140 Mirage 2000-5s to be built in India (with complete transfer of technology from France).

Then again, the 140 may go to Mig for an updated Mig 29 with Israeli, French and Indian avionics.

Dassault has powerful friends in the Indian MoD however and they have resurrected the Mirage 4000 - a two engine, larger version of the Mirage 2000. They want the order for all 200 aircraft.

Saab is bidding with their Gripen. Germany has convinced the Indian Gov't to consider the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Don't write off Lockeed Martin, they are pushing hard for the F-16s.

Posted by john 2005-12-03 13:04|| 2005-12-03 13:04|| Front Page Top

#3 The IAF wants to simply their logistics and maintenance so reducing the number of aircraft they operate is a factor.
They are quite pleased with the Mirage 2000 and would prefer 200 of them. This was the original request that the MoD shot down, demanding competitive international bidding.

While the Super Hornet is a good aircraft, it is expensive. The goodies on offer are what may sway the contract. India has nothing comparable to the latest AESA radar and the air to ground PGMs the SH can fire are an added bonus.

The Chinese factor is important. Pakistan operates the F-16 and has transfered one to China so they would be familiar with this.
The Su-30s are also operated by China.

F-18s are another matter (especially combined with Israeli Phalcon AWACs and the IL-78 tankers). The Chinese have no experience with these. They would give them something to think about if introduced into the theatre.

Posted by john 2005-12-03 13:17|| 2005-12-03 13:17|| Front Page Top

#4 John a couple of things:

1) The mirage 4000 does not exist except as a one-off prototype that served as the testbed for the Rafale. Every single article I've read about the IAF looking at the Mirage 4000 has been written by the same indian writer working for the Hindustan Times (his article therefore is subject to being in error regarding the planes designation because). He even points out that hes referring to a plane that is already in production by France's Dassault BrÃ©guet, that leaves only the Rafale (which is essentially what the Mirage 4000 is/was/now has become) and the Mirage 2000-9 series (which btw is the candidate France entered into the MRCA contest bid India is having). If Indias MoD has gotten completely raving mad then maybe they did figure a 2 engined Mirage 2000 of its old series is better but with only 1 prototype out there theres almost no modern data on it that isnt over 10 years old.

2) Its not so much the radar sets that are an issue as much as there are issues regarding ITAR waivers with engine tech. India doesn't want to deal with the ITAR restrictions from what I hear and the only way they'd be willing to put up with them is they got some really advanced radar sets for a good pricing.

Posted by Valentine 2005-12-03 20:48|| 2005-12-03 20:48|| Front Page Top

#5 He even points out that hes referring to a plane that is already in production by France's Dassault BrÃ©guet, that leaves only the Rafale

Ah.. so the 4000 was an error..
But didn't the IAF reject the Rafale?
In any event, it is way too expensive, especially for a 200 plane order. No way that would pass the Indian Finance Minister

Posted by john 2005-12-03 21:40|| 2005-12-03 21:40|| Front Page Top

23:19 Redneck Jim
23:00 mac
22:49 mac
22:42 Malikrik
22:31 Warner
22:27 2b
21:53 Rafael
21:44 Rafael
21:40 john
21:34 49 pan
21:24 Warner
21:23 49 pan
21:17 Gloger Clinens8435
21:10 Malikrik
20:50 Rafael
20:48 Valentine
20:47 Bobby
20:41 Pappy
20:39 Red Dog
20:35 Bomb-a-rama
20:31 Bomb-a-rama
20:21 Bomb-a-rama
20:21 Barbara Skolaut
20:11 Captain America