Article

2006-04-02 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by Frank G 2006-04-02 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 But despite the massive bombardment on Gaza, Kassam rocket fire continued. On Saturday night four rockets were launched from the northern Gaza Strip, with at least two landing near Kibbutz Zikim south of Ashkelon. On Friday night three rockets were fired from Gaza, landing south of Sderot.

Increase the Pain on the Paleos till Cause and Effect© is Pounded in.

Posted by RD 2006-04-02 00:19|| 2006-04-02 00:19|| Front Page Top

#2 No occupation = no ability to conduct roundups for the purpose of leveraging informants. Another can-win/can't win situation.

Posted by Listen to Dogs 2006-04-02 01:30|| 2006-04-02 01:30|| Front Page Top

#3 Why not just launch some fireworks instead? At least it'll give the Palestinians something pretty to look at.

Posted by Perfessor 2006-04-02 09:32|| 2006-04-02 09:32|| Front Page Top

#4 The problem here is actually not the Paleos. It is Israelis who are adamant against the use of force against Paleos.

The Israelis should just loudly announce a policy, that will take effect on a date certain. Any rocket fired from the Gaza Strip or West Bank will result in the Israelis confiscating 100 acres of adjacent-to-Israel Paleo lands in punishment.

The fence will then be extended around that 100 acres, and it will no longer be Palestinian land, but "held in trust" as unoccupied land--no development or residency permitted by either side, until the Paleos control the terrorists to the satisfaction of the Israelis.

Everything in that land will sit fallow and buildings will remain empty. Surveillance cameras will keep out anyone who tries to sneak in.

The next missile, 100 more acres. The shape of the 100 acres would vary, preferring non-residential lands, but it would be 100 acres, total.

And every statement of protest will be met with a simple message, "Stop the terror, and you get your land back. Continue the attacks and lose more land."

There would be no negotiations, since there is no one to negotiate with. So words and lies would no longer matter, only actions would matter.

One last thing: if the Paleos tried to mount a full-scale war, the Israeli response would be that they would be expelled from the country entirely. Pushed into Egypt and Jordan, never to return, and all their lands would become permanently Israeli.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-04-02 10:12|| 2006-04-02 10:12|| Front Page Top

#5 Anonymoose:
Disproportionate retaliation somewhat controls terrorism. When Israel was leveraged into ending the destruction of the homes of terrorists, terrorism escalated. In context of the West's acceptance of political Islam, Israel cannot implement effective counter-terror practises. For an authoritative account of the consequences of indulging political Islam, I recommend "Inside Sudan: Political Islam, Conflict and Catastrophe" by former US Ambassador to Sudan, Don Petterson.

Posted by Listen to Dogs 2006-04-02 11:41|| 2006-04-02 11:41|| Front Page Top

#6 LTD: That is why drastic policies have to be implemented at such a time as it will lessen the impact. International distractors happen all the time.

The point to all of this is that nobody supports Israel outside of the US. And the USs support while nice, is not essential to Israel. If Israel offends the US, it just needs to wait for that friendship to be renewed, because it is the only true friend the US has in the region.

Israel is too concerned about being liked by countries that will *never* like Israel, no way, no how.

Were Israel to just kick out the Paleos, how long do you think it would be before the US and Israel would be friends again? One year? Two?

Would the US not defend Israel against its Arab neighbors in such a case? Hardly. It might deplore the Paleo expulsion for five years, but then it would move on to other things.

The Paleos would become residents of Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon, whether or not they were ever granted citizenship. And the remaining Israeli Arabs could join them unless they asserted their loyalty to Israel.

It is always easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-04-02 15:07|| 2006-04-02 15:07|| Front Page Top

#7 "How long will you let terrorists control your lives?"

Wrong question. It's:

How long will you live the lives of terrorists?

Pictures of Yassin, Rantissi et al should be attached to these leaflets.

Gotta agree with you, 'moose. Confiscation of the one thing the Palestinians want most desperately of all, namely land, is the way to go. Once they've crowded themselves onto a postage stamp they'll be much more ~~easy to kill all at once~~ to negotiate with.

Posted by Zenster 2006-04-02 16:59|| 2006-04-02 16:59|| Front Page Top

#8 Moose, Israel exists only because the US demands that it continue to exist. If Richard Nixon had not unequivocally put the US behind Israel during the Yom Kippur War, it would have been overrun. SA-6 and SA-3 SAM batteries had shot down a third of the IAF in just three days. The IDF was running out of artillery shells. Israel was within a day of ceasing to exist. Nixon ordered the Navy to fly in whole squadrons of A-4s from the carriers in the Med. The Israelis gsve the Navy pilots tickets home, replaced US markings with the Magen David and were back in the fight. There was a massive outpouring of ammunition and other needed supplies from the US. The C-141s and C-5s were flying almost round the clock transferring munitions and supplies from US war reserves. When the Russians started making noises about it, Nixon put the US on DefCon 3. SAC was in posture 5, the crews were in the airplanes and the planes were prepositioned on the taxiways. The entire B-52G fleet was ordered back from Anderson AFB to the US to resume nuke alert. 186 bombers were airborne within 24 hours. As far as I know, there are no statues to Nixon in Israel, but there should be.

Times have changed, but one constant remains. Without the US, there is no Israel. Israel is neither economically or militarily viable without us.

Posted by RWV 2006-04-02 17:26|| 2006-04-02 17:26|| Front Page Top

#9 The Israelis were more than aware of this, and have done everything in their power to mitigate reliance on the US.

You mentioned the conventional war with multiple Arab nations attacking. Certainly we would continue to support them, even if they expelled the Paleos. However, short of a major conflict, I strongly doubt that the US would try to leverage Israel on behalf of the Paleos.

This is why I was very specific about what they would do: non-violently punish the Paleos for their violent attacks by placing parcels of their land in "trust". The Israelis could very firmly state that those trust lands remain the *property* of the Paleos, but the Paleos are denied their use until they renounce violence and control their fighters.

It is a carrot-and-stick approach that might work.

The Israelis could state that the only alternative to these land holdings would be to counter battery fire into populated areas. It could then say to the US "choose between land takings and killing civilians."

Eventually the Israelis are going to have to do something, because the number and quality of the Paleo missiles just keeps improving. Unless they can produce and field a low-cost anti-missile pulse laser, they may have no choice. Re-occupation accomplishes nothing except getting Israeli soldiers killed.

Time for Israel to sh*t or get off the pot.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-04-02 21:59|| 2006-04-02 21:59|| Front Page Top

#10 Moose, when you're right, you're right. Even so, the US sends Israel the equivalent of about $500 for every citizen every year (~$3B). Doesn't sound like much until you figure how much the Israeli taxpayers would have to shell out to replace it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html

Posted by RWV 2006-04-02 23:06|| 2006-04-02 23:06|| Front Page Top

#11 Moose back up and look at the Crusader states.
The muslims took their time and outlasted the European support. Centuries were nothing.

Israel will, unless Islam does the impossible and changes, be faced with the choice of a final soultion or the sea. Its just a matter of time and population demographics of a people with oil wealth supporters.

Just a matter of time. Either they can make the choice or they can't. If they make it they may need to make it repeatedly for a long time.

What they are doing now is not working. Endless war will destroy their mental health and their society. Its win or loose. There is no middle. The US has tried to push a middle for its own reasons but Israel has only 2 ways to go long term.

Posted by 3dc 2006-04-02 23:35|| 2006-04-02 23:35|| Front Page Top

23:43 RD
23:35 3dc
23:12 trailing wife
23:06 RWV
22:59 Oldspook
22:50 3dc
22:49 3dc
22:49 trailing wife
22:42 JAB
22:32 Listen to Dogs
22:25 JAB
22:18 WTF!
22:11 Anonymoose
22:08 Inspector Clueso
21:59 Anonymoose
21:57 RD
21:44 Scooter McGruder
21:34 Asymmetrical Triangulation
21:30 Darrell
21:26 Agent Bauer
21:21 Gliting Closing8568
21:19 Fordesque
20:55 Darrell
20:54 jim#6