Article

2006-09-16 Science & Technology

RITE and Honda Jointly Develop New Technology to Produce Ethanol from Cellulosic Biomass

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Posted by 3dc 2006-09-16 05:05|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Carbon dioxide (CO2) released by the combustion of bio-ethanol is balanced by the CO2 captured by plants through photosynthesis and, thus, does not increase the total amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Assuming you don't use fertilizer, machines and of course CO2 expelling humans in growing and harvesting the plants.

What's shocking and sad is this drivel passes as self evident truth in many quarters.

Posted by phil_b 2006-09-16 07:50|| 2006-09-16 07:50|| Front Page Top

#2 Just this week I read an article that claimed it took more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than you can get back out of it. More calories go into farming it, harvesting it, trucking, distilling, blending and distributing than that crap could ever yield.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-09-16 09:55|| 2006-09-16 09:55|| Front Page Top

#3 Oh, and by the way. Have you ever driven a car that burns that E85 fuel? Gutless turd is not a big enough word for what it is.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-09-16 09:56|| 2006-09-16 09:56|| Front Page Top

#4 More calories go into farming it, harvesting it, trucking, distilling, blending and distributing than that crap could ever yield.

True, but think of ethanol as a derivative of coal or nuclear energy, a conversion of energy to a form somewhat useable in transportation.

Posted by 6 2006-09-16 11:07|| 2006-09-16 11:07|| Front Page Top

#5 Brazil runs their cars on ethanol. Not only does it cut down on carbon emissions (it is a closed carbon system, the carbon it releases is the same as absorbed by the plants that grow) but also it burns much cleaner than petrol so you don't get the air pollution.

It produces carbon and water only whereas unleaded petrol produces that same plus chemicals like benzenes that cause cancer.

Plus CSR the Australian sugar producer uses waste sugar cane to produce ethanol which it burns at an electricity plant to power a whole town on the Queensland coast (I think it's bundaberg from memory).

Ethanol is a very useful alternate energy.

And big deal about fertiliser, it's used in most agriculture anyway.

Posted by anon1 2006-09-16 11:30|| 2006-09-16 11:30|| Front Page Top

#6 Fertilizer is a big deal, anon. When considering the total energy costs of one gallon of fuel over another, and the total carbon costs, you have to take into account all factors. Fertilizer is one of those.
Which is why biodiesel in certain areas is actually a useful product : it is produced from the yellow grease wastes of restaurants, a product that would normally be introduced into the city's waste stream. By reprocessing it into biodiesel, the various costs associated with yellow grease disposal is reduced to the point that it actually has a positive energy/carbon payback. Major cities like New York, Chicago, and LA could benefit from yellow grease biodiesel conversions; New York especially because of the well-documented and very expensive problems that city's sewer system has with yellow grease dumping.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2006-09-16 12:49|| 2006-09-16 12:49|| Front Page Top

#7 I'm glad to see Honda involved. They are usually very committed to their projects, once begun. We need to work this, to make the break throughs. Ethanol is a good liquid fuel. It has less energy density then gasoline, but burns slower, thus higher octane rating. You can make plenty of power without detonation. I work on a blown alcohol dragster which runs around 6.5 seconds, so plenty of power. The engine needs more compression and more fuel flow. It's true that for every mile driven on the road , you would get 25-30% less fuel economy. Thus, 30 mpg on gasoline would yield ~ 20 mpg on alcohol. But, we wouldn't need Arabs any longer. We could torch their camel asses with impunity without considering the impact to world economy.

Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-09-16 14:28|| 2006-09-16 14:28|| Front Page Top

#8 Cellulosic Biomass is not corn or sugarcane. Read the article. Its things like straw and sawdust and stalks and stems and paper and ... currently waste material.

Posted by 3dc 2006-09-16 14:47|| 2006-09-16 14:47|| Front Page Top

#9 I have been a Honda fanatic for decades.

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060108FCX/

This is the deal.
As part of its effort to ensure the viability of a hydrogen-based society, Honda is developing the Home Energy Station, a comprehensive system designed to meet residential energy needs by supplying electricity and heat in addition to hydrogen fuel for vehicles. Generating hydrogen from natural gas supplied for residential use, the Home Energy Station system also offers consumers the convenience of refueling hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles at home. The system is equipped with fuel cells that generate and supply electricity to the home, and is configured to recover the heat produced during power generation for domestic water heating. In addition to reducing carbon dioxide emissions by some 40 percent, the Home Energy Station system is expected to lower the total running cost of household electricity, gas and vehicle fuel by 50 percent.

A unit like an air conditioner outside doing everything.

Posted by J.D. Lux 2006-09-16 18:21|| 2006-09-16 18:21|| Front Page Top

#10 The Brazil example is spurious. For many years the world price of sugar has been depressed by EU and other countries agricultural subsidies.

Brazil started to make Ethanol from sugar when it was around 4 cents a pound, far below the cost of production, which is closer to the US price of 22 cents a pound.

In recent months when sugar rose to around 15 cents a pound, still below the cost of production in most places, ethanol became more expensive than gas in Brazil.

Ethanol may make sense from some sources in some places, but in most cases ethanol as a fuel (competative with oil) is an unintended consequence of massive agricultural subsidies.

Posted by phil_b 2006-09-16 18:36|| 2006-09-16 18:36|| Front Page Top

#11 And using Natural Gas to produce Hydrogen to power a motor vehicle is lunancy.

Pretty much any petrol driven vehicle can be converted to run on Natural Gas for about $2,000. Not only is this far cheaper than a Hydrogen powered vehicle, it consumes about half the energy (of a Hydrogen powered car) because of the inherent inefficiency of NG to H conversion.

BTW, Honda makes a refuel at home NG driven car.

Posted by phil_b 2006-09-16 18:51|| 2006-09-16 18:51|| Front Page Top

#12 That one is cool too.
It may be lunacy but they're doing it.
I like it better than running on food.

Posted by J.D. Lux 2006-09-16 19:42|| 2006-09-16 19:42|| Front Page Top

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