Article

2006-10-03 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-10-03 00:38|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Me bad :-(

Posted by gromgoru 2006-10-03 01:07|| 2006-10-03 01:07|| Front Page Top

#2 One question; Is there a downside to any of this?

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 01:44|| 2006-10-03 01:44|| Front Page Top

#3 grom...Yes...the downside is that they are not doing it fast enough.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2006-10-03 01:51|| 2006-10-03 01:51|| Front Page Top

#4 My bad.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 02:01|| 2006-10-03 02:01|| Front Page Top

#5 Somehow I think their Jew-hatred will pull them back like all the other times.

Posted by Charles 2006-10-03 02:23|| 2006-10-03 02:23|| Front Page Top

#6 To the mattresses, faster!

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-10-03 02:47|| www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]">[www.sockpuppetofdoom.com] 2006-10-03 02:47|| Front Page Top

#7 PaleoLand/Hama$$ & the rag warriors
Afghanistan/Talibs/Paks
Iraq/Shia/Sunni
Iran
Shia
Sunni

fund/support, encouraging the worst elements of the Islamic Empire so that they attrit each other is a strategic actions we can take.

Posted by RD 2006-10-03 03:50|| 2006-10-03 03:50|| Front Page Top

#8 If it works, someone can shoot the last one standing and the whole problem may be solved. :-)

Posted by gorb 2006-10-03 06:11|| 2006-10-03 06:11|| Front Page Top

#9 Of course there's a downside, over and above the suffering of any civilians caught in the middle.

This sort of instability will continue to pose a threat to Israel because it rather predictably will spill over into attempts at attacks there.

Posted by lotp 2006-10-03 07:42|| 2006-10-03 07:42|| Front Page Top

#10 Of course there's a downside, over and above the suffering of any civilians caught in the middle.

I must respectfully disagree. Sufficient numbers of Palestinians, namely a majority, voted for and openly support Hamas, a known terrorist organization, whereby their civilian population are now complicit in terrorism. It is only their children who are in the least innocent and, most likely, few of them above the age of ten can even be called that. The most generous thing that can be said of the Palestinians is that they are the largest group of en mass child abusers that history has ever seen.

This sort of instability will continue to pose a threat to Israel because it rather predictably will spill over into attempts at attacks there.

As if anything, short of a mass die-off of the Palestinian population, would not "spill over into attempts at attacks there".

Posted by Big Muzzie Turkey 2006-10-03 08:32|| 2006-10-03 08:32|| Front Page Top

#11 Unfortunately, lotp, at the moment the only way I see to stop them from doing this is either to lock each one up in a separate cell until they all grow up and stop trying to kill one another, or to kill them all. For the most part the ones who don't want to play either die or leave. Israel tried the middle ground from 1967-2005, and we saw how well that didn't work.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-10-03 08:34|| 2006-10-03 08:34|| Front Page Top

#12 Of course there's a downside, over and above the suffering of any civilians caught in the middle.

I'm with BMT on this. I didn't notice the civilians doing any better under the "stability" of the Arafish regime.

Posted by Scott R">Scott R 2006-10-03 08:36|| http://five24.net]">[http://five24.net] 2006-10-03 08:36|| Front Page Top

#13 Post # 10 was mine.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 08:40|| 2006-10-03 08:40|| Front Page Top

#14 First you're King Kong, then you're Big Muzzie Turkey....stop eating before bed and those nightmares will go away.

Posted by wxjames 2006-10-03 08:55|| 2006-10-03 08:55|| Front Page Top

#15 Whahahahahaha....nearly spit up my oatmeal, lol.

Posted by Besoeker 2006-10-03 08:59|| 2006-10-03 08:59|| Front Page Top

#16 wonder if they still hand out "Martyr Cards" for the dead snuffies in Intramural Paleo Sporting events? There is no downside. When a fire burns at the garbage dumb, it's wise and safer to let it burn itself out, providing it's contained, and that's the case right now. Hand wringing because it could try to jump the fence is wrong. Just kill it when it tries and let them take each other out

Posted by Frank G 2006-10-03 09:01|| 2006-10-03 09:01|| Front Page Top

#17 Big Muzzie Kong SMASH!

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 09:06|| 2006-10-03 09:06|| Front Page Top

#18 The only downside is that we're talking about Arabs.

Remember when Dyan (I think) was asked about his stunning victories said that it helped to be fighting Arabs.

These bozos are so freakin' incompetent at fighting that it will take them forever to get anywhere with this.

Posted by AlanC">AlanC 2006-10-03 09:14|| 2006-10-03 09:14|| Front Page Top

#19 1. Re innocents. Im not certain of the identities of the dead. I hope its "militants". Certainly I will never cheer the death of a child, and I would note here that a big part of the Pal electorate voted against Hamas. Not all who voted for Fatah are "innocent" but neither are all who voted for Hamas "guilty" in that some voted for Hamas just cause they were sick of Fatah.

2. Strategically - Upside is A. Militants die B. It presses toward the end of the Hamas govt. Downside - A. The bad guys may win - while the deaths of AAMB "militants" is not a cause for regret, if Fatah is fatally weakened and Hamas emerges triumphant (unlikely, but not impossible) this will prove damaging to Israel, IMO, and also to the US. B. Anything can happen in war, they are intrinscially unpredictable, and a bad things we havent thought of could occur

3. I doubt this will spillover - rockets can cross the fence, and occasionally a terr can make it through, but its hard to see how civil disorder can directly spillover. Of course it can lead to firing across the fence, but that was already happening anyway. Now IF there were still Israeli settlements in Gaza, that would have been a different danger. But there arent, thanks to a decision some have come to regret in recent weeks, but IMO may yet prove to have been very wise.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-10-03 11:12|| 2006-10-03 11:12|| Front Page Top

#20 How many photos have we seen with two or three Paleo snuffies shooting at IDF forces from around a bldg corner with 20-30 Paleo youts lingering three or four feet behind (or in front of) them, watching gleefully. Ineveitable Darwinian stupidity consequences.

Posted by Frank G 2006-10-03 11:17|| 2006-10-03 11:17|| Front Page Top

#21 Zenster, how did you manage to 'accidentally' post as 'Big Muzzie Kong??'

Posted by Chinter Flarong9283 2006-10-03 15:11|| 2006-10-03 15:11|| Front Page Top

#22 How many photos have we seen with two or three Paleo snuffies shooting at IDF forces from around a bldg corner with 20-30 Paleo youts lingering three or four feet behind (or in front of) them, watching gleefully.

Enough to where the IDF should no longer feel constrained about firing into such a crowd of sympathizers. All they'd be doing is culling out a bunch of undergraduate terrorists. These runts know what they're doing and damn well know the danger involved. To quote Alan Dershowitz:

Had the Allies been required to fight World War II under the rules of engagement selectively applied to Amnesty International to Israel, our greatest generation might have lost that war. If attacking the civilian infrastructure is a war crime, then modern warfare is entirely impermissible, and terrorists have a free hand in attacking democracies and hiding from retaliation among civilians. Terrorists become de facto immune from any consequences for their atrocities.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 15:18|| 2006-10-03 15:18|| Front Page Top

#23 Zenster, how did you manage to 'accidentally' post as 'Big Muzzie Kong??'

No accident, just funnin'. I posted in various threads using the "King Kong" and " Big Muzzie Turkey" nyms for humorous effect and merely forgot to reset my nym when posting in other threads, like this one. Out of responsibility to the board, I identified myself where the fake nym was not appropriate.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 15:24|| 2006-10-03 15:24|| Front Page Top

#24 dershowitz (whom Ive met) was discussing attacks on infrastructure, not firing into crowds, just to clarify.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-10-03 15:47|| 2006-10-03 15:47|| Front Page Top

#25 Indiscriminate crowd killing will get you fried domestically, no need for GC accords. Civilian carnage necessarily follows effective infrastructure destruction, either directly (in the attacks) or indirectly (cessation of water/power/sewage/medical care/transportation). IMHO both are necessary and essential consequences of invoking war on us, and I'd apologize for neither. I wouldn't be f*&king calling them up before destroying their houses, families, weapons caches, or Qassam factories, a la the Israelis, either.

Posted by Frank G 2006-10-03 15:58|| 2006-10-03 15:58|| Front Page Top

#26 international law on war crimes is based on intent. attacking infrastructure that serves more or less directly in war, and firing at civilians are not treated the same. I was taking issue with Zensters post, which it seemed to me implied that Dershowitz was justifying killing of "youths who hang around watching violence". Which he was not.

Of course whats permissible under Intl law is not relevant here, as we are only discussing what is an upside or downside in the current fighting among pals, not authorizing acts of war. It would be a violation of the laws of war to kill a civilian because of how they voted - but taking satisfaction in such a death, inflicted by someone else is only a thought, and not subject to the laws of war.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-10-03 16:35|| 2006-10-03 16:35|| Front Page Top

#27 My reference to Deshowitz's quote was in order to demonstrate how:

"... terrorists have a free hand in attacking democracies and hiding from retaliation among civilians. Terrorists become de facto immune from any consequences for their atrocities.

When a society elects (literally) to conceal, shield and support terrorists they relinquish all right to any claim of being innocent bystanders. When these kids cluster up around terrorist snipers, they know damn well that they are providing a civilian shield. Additionally, the terrorists do absolutely nothing to discourage such utter foolhardiness. The Palestinian people must eventually come to terms with how their terrorist leaders are bringing their culture to a complete and total dead end. The IDF is not to blame if, in their pursuit of terrorists, those combatants surround themselves with children to avoid military prosecution.

The use of civilians as shields must inevitably result in the deaths of civilians. There is absolutely no other way to deter such a practice. Once sufficient losses occur, civilians will forcefully resist being put into harm's way by these murderers. The Palestinians represent an almost unique and intractable situation in that their civilian population is routinely complicit in terrorist acts. Just as their Koran specifies collective punishment for dhimmi communities living under Islamic rule, so must we begin to mete out collective punishment for the wrongs of these Islamic psychotics.

There is no alternative. As Dershowitz so capably observes, to play by our own rules allows terrorists to; "... become de facto immune from any consequences for their atrocities." How many atrocities do you suggest that we endure in the painstaking attempt to prosecute only the terrorists and not any of their facilitating civilian population? The gloves must come off. Refraining to do so will only result in even more devastating atrocities being visited upon us at the hands of these relentless terrorist psychopaths. We have suffered enough. It is time for our enemies to begin suffering untold misery for their murderous religious obsession with world domination. Not a single new atrocity should be necessary to justify the ruthless and calculated killing of those who conduct, harbor, abet, promote, finance and facilitate terrorism.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 18:44|| 2006-10-03 18:44|| Front Page Top

#28 international law on war crimes

Is a wonderful thing---ask any Darfuran.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-10-03 19:54|| 2006-10-03 19:54|| Front Page Top

#29 The only reason that there is any talk of "International Law on war crimes" is because the West inflicted punishment on Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan for same, in a definite spasm of the Left's boogie man - "victor's justice". If it had not been for the war crime tribunals after WWII, no one would even bother to talk about violations of war crimes standards. And no, the deliberate destruction of infrastructure to impede the war-fighting ability of an opponent is not prohibited.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2006-10-03 21:13|| 2006-10-03 21:13|| Front Page Top

#30 UN ambulance drivers must be pulling thier hair out.

Posted by plainslow 2006-10-03 21:44|| 2006-10-03 21:44|| Front Page Top

#31 Ima agreed with Zenster on this one, although I think teh Koran plays a minimal part in the Gaza death cult. It's the Jooooo hate more than any Islamic fervor that motivates, and always will be. They might spout the usual Friday sermon - 'rev up the rubes' shit - but it's power. thuggery, Joooo hate and nihilism that motivates this cesspool, and will lead to their ultimate cessation as a people

Posted by Frank G 2006-10-03 21:46|| 2006-10-03 21:46|| Front Page Top

#32 UN ambulance drivers must be pulling thier hair out.

It'll drive you to do that, when both sides are your patrons.

Posted by lotp 2006-10-03 21:53|| 2006-10-03 21:53|| Front Page Top

#33 Frank, in light of how the Koran supposedly (nudge nudge, wink wink) honors "people of the book", like "fellow" Jews and Christians, you are most definitely right about how Jew hatred drives this insane death-wish suicide cult known as the Palestinians.

As trailing wife so capably observed, only by locking every one of them up in individual jail cells or just killing them all can we bring about any halt to the endless murder these cretins are so fixated upon.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 22:04|| 2006-10-03 22:04|| Front Page Top

#34 dershowitz (whom Ive met) was discussing attacks on infrastructure, not firing into crowds, just to clarify.

So, liberalhawk, are you going to come back in here with some more stern finger-wagging solutions to this world's intractable terrorist problems?

However nasty my proposed solutions might be, they are that, "solutions". Your advice that we all toe the line of international law only invites more Rwandas, Darfurs and Palestines. I only ask that you balance your repeated utopian longings with some degree of honest real-world vision.

What rational objections can you pose to my suggestions regarding how to deal with willing civilian shields, liberalhawk? I'd honestly like to know.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-10-03 22:11|| 2006-10-03 22:11|| Front Page Top

23:59 Flomoter Ulolush5791
23:57 Super Hose
23:56 Zenster
23:54 Valentine
23:52 toad
23:51 49 Pan
23:50 RWV
23:44 Super Hose
23:35 Zenster
23:27 tu3031
23:24 Super Hose
23:20 Chaiger Sluper9927
23:17 Chaiger Sluper9927
23:16 Zenster
23:12 Zenster
23:08 TZSenator
22:59 Eric Jablow
22:56 gorb
22:44 RD
22:40 Frank G
22:37 phil_b
22:36 FOTSGreg
22:34 gorb
22:29 phil_b