Article

2007-02-06 Iraq

U.S. advisers find joint patrols with Iraqis don't go as planned

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Posted by Anonymoose 2007-02-06 09:53|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Thanks for posting this moose, its surprizingly good for USAToday, in fact better than just about anything similar the NYT or WaPo has done.

Tragically we (including me) substantially underestimated how the awfulness of Arab culture would hinder building an effective Iraqi military.

Posted by mhw 2007-02-06 10:33|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2007-02-06 10:33|| Front Page Top

#2 Another part of the problem is lack of language/culture skills on the US side, and the lack of domestic security in Iraq. I am surprised the situation isn't a lot worse than it is at present.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2007-02-06 12:03|| 2007-02-06 12:03|| Front Page Top

#3 It may be our "acquiescence to the culture" that has made the situation as bad as it is-"don't go here, don't check this, don't insist on that".

Posted by Jules 2007-02-06 12:22|| 2007-02-06 12:22|| Front Page Top

#4 didn't we have a post just the other day saying how hard it was to rein in the Iraqi troops? I'd guess some are and some aren't, eh?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-06 12:36|| 2007-02-06 12:36|| Front Page Top

#5 It takes from three to eight years to train a good NCO, and equally as long to train good officers. Without both, an army is ineffective. I doubt anyone with real military experience expected to fully train an Iraqi army in two or three years.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2007-02-06 12:53|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2007-02-06 12:53|| Front Page Top

#6 The event describe is not surprising, and can really drive young officers crazy. Our Troops are taught to lead and the LT did just that. His soldiers responded correctly and got out front where he told them to be. Unfortunately the Iraqis were supposed to lead that mission. It is extremely difficult for an American officer to stand and watch a third rate army fumble through a mission. I was not there, so no armchair QB here, it can just be frustrating for a young US officer and his NCO's to stand and watch a mission go sideways in the name of mission training.

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2007-02-06 13:01|| 2007-02-06 13:01|| Front Page Top

#7 Patriot,

Yes it takes time to train good NCOs and officers and time to integrate them with their equipment but we (at least I) weren't aiming to make the bulk of their army 'top notch' or even 'very good', just good enough to do the job with the US giving air support some logistics help and once in a while some heavy infantry support. If we get to that point at all, it won't be until 2008 at the earliest.

Posted by mhw 2007-02-06 13:23|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2007-02-06 13:23|| Front Page Top

#8 Doesn't sound like COIN to me. Half a hammer and no anvil.

In the old days we would have had stop-groups walking 20 miles overnight into position behind the area to be spanked, in order to slot the runners. Fire Force cleared, dropped in at the last minute, normally first light.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2007-02-06 16:42|| 2007-02-06 16:42|| Front Page Top

#9 #8, and where is Rhodesia now? Failure to pave the roads, drill wells, engage friendly African tribal leaders, and operate integrated units {excluding the Selous Scouts} cost Rhodesia the natural allies that existed in-country to fight the communists. And the failure to buyoff Nkomo with seats in the Parliament deprived the Conservatives in Great Britain of the fig leaf needed to accept Zimbabwe-Rhodesia as the evolved multi-racial government to leave in power.

The US is setting up a national army that is designed to crush an internal rebellion/terrorist uprising as the primary goal in Iraq. They don't have to be Islamic Israelis for that to succeed - remember between 1968 and 1972, the ARVN built on US successes against the VC and had eliminated it. The invasion from the North by NVA regulars with heavy tank divisions is what succeeded in 1975, not the pajama-wearing VC of MSM fantasies.
That is all the US is shooting for in Iraq : that the national forces of Iraq crush the rebellion inside the country. The Iraqis will be dependent on US support for the next 10 years to defend against an invasion by Syria or Iran; although the Saudis and the Gulf Arabs seem to be funneling items of support towards the Iraqi government now. The feeling in the Gulf seems to be moving towards that it is better to have an independent Shia-controlled Iraq as a buffer to Iran, than to be wedded to a failing Sunni rebellion.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-02-06 19:19|| 2007-02-06 19:19|| Front Page Top

#10 This article strongly hints/infers that the LT is indeed trying to Lead, Observe, Advise and Instruct, i.e. TO LEAD AND TEACH. Slowly but surely the job will get done. I am sure the holiday goodies of US-Brit forces will impress the locals to no end.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-02-06 20:36|| 2007-02-06 20:36|| Front Page Top

#11 Bowls of local something, vz Big portions of Big Fat Hams, Turkeys, Chicken, Pork, and Beef - Its a quagmire, they tells ya, a quagmire,

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-02-06 20:38|| 2007-02-06 20:38|| Front Page Top

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