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2007-02-16 India-Pakistan

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Posted by john 2007-02-16 07:18|| || Front Page|| [13 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Tata Steel, India's largest steel maker in the private sector, created history Jan 31 by winning the battle for acquisition of Corus outbidding Brazil's CSN in a tough and protracted contest. The deal that made Tata Steel world's fifth largest steel entity was finalised at 6.2 billion pounds (almost $12 billion).

Posted by john 2007-02-16 07:24|| 2007-02-16 07:24|| Front Page Top

#2 I've never even seen an estimate on what the bare minimum price of a new automobile could be in the US, after calculating in all the mandatory crap.

It would be very light, so the minimum safety need would be a very caged interior, as uncrushable as possible. Strictly for city driving, natch.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-02-16 11:11|| 2007-02-16 11:11|| Front Page Top

#3 I think a $2,200 car in the US would be very similar to a WW2 jeep in many ways. Perhaps less off-road ready as it would only really be expected for city driving.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-02-16 11:53|| 2007-02-16 11:53|| Front Page Top

#4 Think Plastic and Glue

Posted by john 2007-02-16 12:02|| 2007-02-16 12:02|| Front Page Top

#5 Ummm, won't this contribute to global warming?

Posted by anonymous2u 2007-02-16 12:04|| 2007-02-16 12:04|| Front Page Top

#6 Not as much as these coal burning monsters...

THE Government plans to invite expressions of interest (EoI) from global and domestic firms by the end of this month to build five `ultra-mega' thermal power projects, with a total installed capacity of 20,000 mega watts (MW).

Posted by john 2007-02-16 12:12|| 2007-02-16 12:12|| Front Page Top

#7 Well, the VW Type 181 "Thing" was supposed to be a very cheap car, and also very customizable. Trouble was that it had a really hard and uncomfortable ride, and did not easily take the mandatory US equipment.

Maybe what is needed is a cheap car for fat people, designed for comfort and ease of use, with bench seats instead of those damn buckets.

Make the roof one big solar panel that would warm the interior some in winter and cool it some in summer. Not full a/c or heating, just some, to make the car more comfortable before its engine a/c or heat kicked on.

A small city car that could comfortably carry two 250-300lb people would be a big favorite. If it did that, the rest of the car could be VW bug cheap.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-02-16 12:56|| 2007-02-16 12:56|| Front Page Top

#8 A small city car that could comfortably carry two 250-300lb people would be a big favorite. If it did that, the rest of the car could be VW bug cheap.

For only a few dollars more, it could come equipped with "Anti Driverside Window Close" sensors that would close and disable the driver side window when the vehicle is within 50 feet of a fast food drive through.

Posted by Capsu 78 2007-02-16 13:08|| 2007-02-16 13:08|| Front Page Top

#9 The cheapest Chinese car is about $5K. Given Indian red tape, corruption, manufacturing expertise (or the lack thereof), et al, I can't see Tata coming up with a $2.2K car that consumers will buy. OK, maybe Indian consumers, since the Indian market is so closed*.

* The Chinese market is protected, but you can buy imported cars - their prices are simply inflated by a 30+% tariff. I'm not sure you can get a car import license at all in India. This is why the US exported $55B worth of goods to China in 2006, but only $10B worth of goods to India.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-02-16 15:02|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2007-02-16 15:02|| Front Page Top

#10 GM, Ford, Toyota, Suzuki, Honda, Renault, BMW, Volkswagen all have plants in India. Besides catering to the local market, they export cars from India.

Posted by john 2007-02-16 15:10|| 2007-02-16 15:10|| Front Page Top

#11 They've also started to export car parts (even to China). The Indian company Bharat Forge is now the second largest forging company in the world and makes car parts for many companies.

As one of Indias emerging multinationals, the company has manufacturing operations across nine locations and six countries 2 in India, 3 in Germany and one each in Sweden, Scotland UK, USA & China.

Our customers include the top five Passenger Car & top five Commercial Vehicle Manufacturers in the world. The list includes virtually every automotive OEM and Tier I companies.

Posted by john 2007-02-16 15:22|| 2007-02-16 15:22|| Front Page Top

#12 manufacturing expertise (or the lack thereof)

Shop floor of a Bharat Forge plant

Posted by john 2007-02-16 15:27|| 2007-02-16 15:27|| Front Page Top

#13 J: GM, Ford, Toyota, Suzuki, Honda, Renault, BMW, Volkswagen all have plants in India. Besides catering to the local market, they export cars from India.

From a November 2005 article about BMW setting up a plant in India:

Currently, two intermediary dealers with three outlets represent the BMW Group in the Indian market.

In 2004 financial year, the company delivered 122 BMW brand vehicles through this network. In the first half of 2005, deliveries totalled 100 automobiles.

Owing to the high growth potential, the BMW Group is hopeful of multiplying its annual sales volume with its entry into the Indian market.

For 2005, BMW was able to export perhaps 200 cars to India. During the same period, BMW sold 24,000 cars in China. That's 120 times the Indian sales volume. I saw with my own eyes that in a single Chinese coastal city - and not even the richest one - there were 30 or 40 locally-owned BMW imports (not the Chinese joint venture-made* ones from Shanghai, which have Chinese lettering on the trunk lid). It's not like in 2005, there were just 200 Indians who wanted and could afford BMW's. It's got to be Indian trade restrictions that don't even bother with tariffs - they just let a trickle through. This is the same India that complains about foreign tariffs.

* The BMW's assembled in China are standard Beemers on the inside and the outside. But some wealthy folks there will buy identically-configured imports (complete with a tariff-inflated price tag) because the lack of Chinese lettering on the trunk lid screams "import" and conveys a little more prestige. Some are convinced that the locally-assembled product couldn't possibly be as good as a Beemer touched by Teutonic hands.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-02-16 15:49|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2007-02-16 15:49|| Front Page Top

#14 I think the Indian tariffs start at 24%

Posted by john 2007-02-16 16:01|| 2007-02-16 16:01|| Front Page Top

#15 New vehicle sales a year:

China: 7 million
India: 1 million

Posted by john 2007-02-16 16:06|| 2007-02-16 16:06|| Front Page Top

#16 J: The Indian company Bharat Forge is now the second largest forging company in the world

That's not tough when you're one of the handful of companies licensed to operate in India. Crony capitalism does have the effect of concentrating wealth and power in a few hands. China has a handful of ~~crony capitalists~~ billionaires. India has more billionaires - and not coincidentally - far fewer large industrial companies, thanks to a state policy of crony capitalism backed by an ostensibly socialist government.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-02-16 16:12|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2007-02-16 16:12|| Front Page Top

#17 Nobody said the $2,000 car would be comfortable. Heaters would be optional, radio would be optional, heck, doors would be optional. The bench seats would also be a good idea to save a bit of cash.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-02-16 16:39|| 2007-02-16 16:39|| Front Page Top

#18 That's not tough when you're one of the handful of companies licensed to operate in India.

The "license raj" was dismantled in 1991.

Which is why you are seeing the growth of Indian entrepreneurial activity.
The playing field was leveled for Indian businesses. Foreign companies, in several sectors, still have to face %caps in FDI allowed.

The last holdout is the SSI (small scale industry) sector, This is a Gandhian scheme where cottage industry has certain types of good reserved for it. Only they may manufacture these goods.

The list is shrinking every year but still exists

Posted by John Frum 2007-02-16 16:59|| 2007-02-16 16:59|| Front Page Top

#19 I think I ran over one of these in my 4X4 F150. There was something like a beer can stuck in the lugs of my tread

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-16 17:31|| 2007-02-16 17:31|| Front Page Top

#20 Tata Motors.

So, will they call the first model the Bodacious?

Posted by Hennie Youngman 2007-02-16 17:49|| 2007-02-16 17:49|| Front Page Top

#21 you should see the high beams

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-16 18:33|| 2007-02-16 18:33|| Front Page Top

#22 Actually, the $2000 car could be made but it would be extremely basic - think of a golf cart with a slightly bigger engine and a hauling space on the back, with bench seats for two in the front. With a stamped steel unibody, only one set of doors, no power anything, manual trannie, and maybe a heating duct and fan to pull heat from the engine. Or the Indians could just buy the rights to the first model Volkswagen and produce it - should be capable of being built in quantity for under $2000.
The US Army had a light hauler for airborne troops in the 1960s and 70s called the Mule that could function as the basis for this as well; you would only need to put a front enclosed cab on it, and it would function as the poor man's pickup.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-02-16 18:56|| 2007-02-16 18:56|| Front Page Top

#23 that's fine, I wouldn't call it a "car"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-16 18:59|| 2007-02-16 18:59|| Front Page Top

#24 Tatas' Rs 1-lakh car to be gearless

Undeterred by scepticism from industry rivals, including Suzuki Motor Corporation that such a car may not be feasible for Rs 1 lakh, Tata exuded confidence that the launch would be the only answer from him.

"I hope so. Just like people ate their words on Indica, they would realise that there is something (Rs 1-lakh car) that can be done," Tata told PTI on whether the launch would be an answer to the sceptics.

Along with Indica, the new Rs 1-lakh car, whose prototypes are presently doing test run without a body, would be the growth focus for Tata Motors in the medium term in the automobile sector, in which the group could invest up to Rs 30,000 crore (Rs 300 billion) in the next few years.

Tata said the proposed Rs 1-lakh car would be a vehicle that "will seat four to five people and have a rear engine. It will not be a scooter, three-wheeler or an auto-rickshaw made into a car."

"It will also not be a stripped down car. It will be an inexpensive car," he said, but added that it would obviously not have the finish or the high speed or the power of a larger car.

Tata said the new vehicle would be a 'compact car' and would be a reality in less than three years.

On the technology used for the new vehicle, he said: "We have gone to Delphi for the engine management system as in India there is no electronic engine management system available."

Tata said the car would have the 'continuously variable transmission (CVT) technology, which means without gear changing.' For the CVT also, he said: "We have gone somewhere else, because we have no experience."

Commenting on the styling front, he said the company had taken help from the Italian design house, IDEA, which worked with Tata Motors on Indica.

Posted by John Frum 2007-02-16 19:28|| 2007-02-16 19:28|| Front Page Top

#25 Tata Motor's competitors do not - at least publicly - believe it is practical. Business Standard said that 'with taxes accounting for almost half a car's ex-factory cost, Tata will have to produce a car within Rs 70,000 for it to be priced at Rs 1 lakh in the market. At present, they say, it is not possible to make a car for less than Rs 1.5 lakh and costs will only increase over the next five years.' Maruti Udyog's Jagdish said that he did not believe it is possible for Maruti to bring out a car model that costs less than Rs. 1.5 lakh. In the next few years, the possibility of having to meet Euro III or IV emission norms would make it even costlier, according to him.
Hyundai said that it did not believe it is possible for such a car to meet safety standards.

Posted by John Frum 2007-02-16 19:33|| 2007-02-16 19:33|| Front Page Top

#26 think of a golf cart with a slightly bigger engine and a hauling space on the back, with bench seats for two in the front. With a stamped steel unibody, only one set of doors, no power anything, manual trannie, and maybe a heating duct and fan to pull heat from the engine.

Hey.. that was done in Pakistan.. their first attempt at making a car.. the Habib Sitara

Posted by John Frum 2007-02-16 19:35|| 2007-02-16 19:35|| Front Page Top

#27 The "people's car" will use a combination of steel and composite plastic for its body, put together with industrial adhesive along with nuts and bolts. But what's the business changer? Tata will attempt to do away with the traditional model of manufacturing solely in a factory and distributing exclusively through established dealers. The plan is to make the basic components of the car in Tata plants -- and then to send the car off the company's assembly line much like a bicycle, in a knocked-down kit form. These will be shipped across the country to Tata-trained franchisees. Some of them will be Tata Motors car dealers. But other franchisees may be any of India's thousands of roadside garages.

The mechanics will keep the kits in their garages and assemble them on demand for customers -- then service them as needed. "It will give an opportunity to young, capable people to create an enterprise," says Tata. But the move will also save an estimated 20% of an auto's production, experts say. "Tata's plan makes the car a commodity," says Kumar Bhattacharyya, director of Warwick Manufacturing Group at the University of Warwick in Britain.

Posted by John Frum 2007-02-16 19:50|| 2007-02-16 19:50|| Front Page Top

#28 that's cool - it's a "cart" in the US. Functional and satisfying, but not a "car". Words matter

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-02-16 19:59|| 2007-02-16 19:59|| Front Page Top

#29 Hubby wants to know if the hubcaps are pasties.

Posted by anonymous2u 2007-02-16 21:32|| 2007-02-16 21:32|| Front Page Top

#30 I like the rumble seat.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2007-02-16 21:45|| 2007-02-16 21:45|| Front Page Top

#31 I go your bench seating right here.

Posted by ed 2007-02-16 22:04|| 2007-02-16 22:04|| Front Page Top

#32 JF: Hey.. that was done in Pakistan.. their first attempt at making a car.. the Habib Sitara

Looks like a Vespa on steroids. Not a bad idea at all. Crashworthiness is quite another matter, though.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-02-16 22:20|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2007-02-16 22:20|| Front Page Top

#33 On second thoughts, it looks more like a dune buggy.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-02-16 22:22|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2007-02-16 22:22|| Front Page Top

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