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2007-03-13 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by xbalanke 2007-03-13 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Thanks for posting. Every bit of it well-known to those with brains and who've paid any attention. Completely astounding, outrageous, and dubious to the masses who think the NYT and NPR constitute serious sources of information.

For several years I've told many people "we don't disagree - we'd have to spend several days or weeks on harmonizing our factual understanding (i.e., nearly completely overhauling THEIR database) before we'd even know whether YOU actually disagree."

Posted by Verlaine 2007-03-13 02:04|| 2007-03-13 02:04|| Front Page Top

#2 I would like to read Verlaine's laying out his factual understanding of Iraq & the jihad. I have no lack of brains and have been paying attention since 1979 (at least), but still have difficulty mastering the facts in the face of the tsunami of misinformation & BS from the media & the politicians.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2007-03-13 03:03|| 2007-03-13 03:03|| Front Page Top

#3 There was plenty of planning and preparation for post-invasion operations in Iraq

Hmm. This is going to be a tough one to prove. Or at least it will take quite a while and have to cover quite a few subjects to convince me. I believe they really thought they had planned things well, but even little ol' me saw it wasn't going to turn out. Must have been focused on the trees too much instead of the forest.

Posted by gorb 2007-03-13 06:38|| 2007-03-13 06:38|| Front Page Top

#4 I know some of the DOD planners involved. Franks is telling the truth - there was detailed planning and it did look at the forest as well as the trees.

What happened is (metaphorically speaking) that the State Dept. pushed through environmental regulations requiring a completely different forest to be planted. Powell and Armitage managed to veto or sabotage 3 out of 4 main initiatives drawn up by the Pentagon. And gave tacit support to Turkey's refusal to allow us to come in through the north, too.

The result is, well, what we see now. A longer, harder, messier slog.

Posted by occasional observer 2007-03-13 07:08|| 2007-03-13 07:08|| Front Page Top

#5 #3: There was plenty of planning and preparation for post-invasion operations in Iraq

Observer is spot on. Draft invasion OPLANS were on on the table and routinely staffed and exercised at least as early as 1999 and 2000. A standing Coalition Joint Task Force (CJTF) under LTG Frank's, Commander of US Army Central Command (ARCENT) Fort McPherson, GA. was stood up and exercised regularly at Camp Doha in Kuwait. Franks developed a scheme of rotating COL(P) and Brigadier Generals in and out of the TF in thirty day intervals as "Task Force Commanders." This enabled senior leaders to get a feel for the mission and gain valuable theater situational awareness. General Dave Petreus was one such rotating general officer. In fact, Petreaus as I recall, did not one but two tours as a 30 day CJTF commander. Franks also hosted senior officer tours/terrain rides of the CJTF that provided bus loads of 1-2 week "drive bys" the opportunity to see where they might someday be earning their pay. As an aside, retrieving US Army kit from "Coalition partner" senior officers got to be quite a chore. The Northern and Southern "No fly Zones" kept what was left of the Iraqi Air Force and army helos in their pen. Any time US State gets involved, expect the worst. The warfighting piece under General Franks was brilliantly planned and executed. General Franks was a visionary who studied his craft, history, the people, and the language. He had an appreciation for military intelligence and an abiding trust in his senior intelligence staff. My gut instinct was that as soon as Bahgdad fell and the peacekeeping, political and US State Department diplo-dink role began to surface, General Franks wisely dropped his paperwork, retired, and went home to his beloved Texas. No General worth his salt would dance with that crowd. If Tommy Franks said it or wrote, you can take it to the bank, end of story. Just my two cents worth.

Posted by Besoeker 2007-03-13 08:11|| 2007-03-13 08:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Anguper, I was making a pretty broad statement - the main point being that when I encounter what appear to be contrary opinions, often as not, if I probe a bit into factual premises, they're entirely wrong. Thus the quip about whether there is actually any real disagreement. The tsunami you talk about is even worse than that, I'd say - it's now a comprehensive environment of disinformation that supports an edifice of distortion. There are b.s. books to supplement the b.s. from NPR or AP to go along with the nonsense from certain political quarters and/or editorial boards - none of it, NONE of it, ever countered by the adults (the enduring mystery of the administration's silence).

Most here, of course, think for themselves and have figure things out. How? Dunno. More than once in the past few years like-minded younger folks have asked "where do we go for info?" as an alternative to the MSM. I've never been able to give a neat or simple answer. Whereas to sip at the firehose of MSM/Beltway/academic b.s., you can turn to any media outlet (including Fox most of the time). Scary.

Posted by Verlaine 2007-03-13 12:07|| 2007-03-13 12:07|| Front Page Top

#7 Verlaine, when they're ready for it, you should send 'em here. Explain the "Thugburg" search section (that alone probably "knows" more than any Civilian HUMINT we got on the ground over in theater) to 'em and let 'em rip! The 'burg is the undisputed source for info (links to the actual stories), as well as snark, comedy, and occassionally, insight from people who used to work in the Middle East.

Posted by BA 2007-03-13 13:42|| 2007-03-13 13:42|| Front Page Top

#8 I'd go with more than occasionally, BA. Almost every day -- in the several years I've been hanging out here -- somebody has posted something that provided me with an unexpected insight into something. Verlaine, I second BA; if they're ready to face reality, send 'em here. Just warn them to mind their manners -- some of the guys play a little rough. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2007-03-13 14:58|| 2007-03-13 14:58|| Front Page Top

23:52 USN, ret.
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