Article

2007-04-22 Iraq

3 Suspects Talk After Iraqi Soldiers Do Dirty Work

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Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2007-04-22 12:19|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Craftsman (tm) Tools...making the world safer, one terrorist at a time!!

Posted by Justrand 2007-04-22 13:43|| 2007-04-22 13:43|| Front Page Top

#2 As I suspected. The New York Times. I need read no further.

Posted by Bobby 2007-04-22 13:47|| 2007-04-22 13:47|| Front Page Top

#3 First, the characteristic outrageous distortion and editorializing posing as reporting:

The use of torture by American soldiers and contractors at Abu Ghraib only compounded Iraqi hatred of Americans and further undermined American moral claims in Iraq. It also produced little valuable information.

Whuh? Basis for this claim, and crucially for the premise of "compounded" pre-existing hatred, please? You think lots of Shi'a were troubled by the high-jinks at Abu? Kurds? Many, many Sunnis sick of the thugs in their midst? But unpacking this nugget of distortion would take too long - suffice it to say that getting information and something qualifying as "torture" had little or nothing to do with the criminal misbehavior at Abu.

Leaving this aside, the article has something useful info - some troubling, some encouraging.

First, let's all stop chuckling at the NYT's identification of a "dilemma" facing the US in that a tiny bit of roughing up is used to loosen the lips of a suspect in order to disrupt the operations of vile mass murderers who are dedicated to killing thousands and wrecking a society. Good thing the "dilemma" posed by the need to vaporize millions of Axis civilians in order to avoid killing tens of millions of them through prolonged conquest didn't paralyze the Allies 60 years ago.

Bad news: foot patrols are avoided because the area's hot. While completely understandable - uh, then what's the point of our recently adopted non-commuter engagement strategy?

Better news: the apparently casual (therefore unambivalent) view of US soldiers that security must PRECEDE all the other good collateral stuff like jobs and development. The inversion of this common sense idea has, and still does, bedevil us in a disastrous fashion.

Posted by Verlaine 2007-04-22 14:14|| 2007-04-22 14:14|| Front Page Top

#4 Article: Most experts, including in the military, say they believe that coerced confessions are an unreliable way to learn about enemy operations because people being tortured will often say whatever they think it will take to stop the pain.

This is really moronic. People aren't tortured to get confessions, which are useless. They're tortured to get locations of weapons caches, safehouses, cell leaders, etc. All of which can be taped and cross-checked against information from other captives.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-04-22 15:11|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2007-04-22 15:11|| Front Page Top

#5 "To the Iraqi soldiers, the treatment was normal and necessary. They were proud of their technique and proud to have helped the Americans."

This is indeed necessary. The actions and handling must be porportionate to the culture and behavior. Otherwise - we have plenty of examples of "integration" in Europe, where women getting raped, people robbed, cars burned because of no decent punishment.

Posted by Nesvarbukas 2007-04-22 15:57|| 2007-04-22 15:57|| Front Page Top

#6 So what? The injuries weren't debilitating although I wouldn't care if they were because terrorists don't deserve human rights.

Somebody send these guys the full-line Craftsman Tool catalog.

Posted by gorb 2007-04-22 16:03|| 2007-04-22 16:03|| Front Page Top

#7 Hey, it's their culture. Who are we to judge?

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-04-22 16:10|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-04-22 16:10|| Front Page Top

#8 were later shown briefly to a photographer, who was not allowed to take a picture.

Oh, the humanity!

Let's do some simple math: For terrorists, there are no holds barred. Anything goes, mayhem, murder, mass murder, chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, you name it.

In my book, if you want to play terrorist, then you leave yourself open for any and all means required to make you sing the entire lead role of Rigoletto, including the difficult Cortigiani, vil razza dannata passage.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-04-22 16:22|| 2007-04-22 16:22|| Front Page Top

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