Article

2007-08-19 Iraq

British forces useless in Basra, say officials

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Posted by lotp 2007-08-19 00:00|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top
File under: Iraqi Insurgency

#1 "could be the most bloody part of the transition".

And the downside in Basra is?

Posted by Besoeker 2007-08-19 01:32|| 2007-08-19 01:32|| Front Page Top

#2 Besoeker, Iran is the downside.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-08-19 01:35|| 2007-08-19 01:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Never thought much of their approach down south. But note - many of its flaws are/were embraced by many US commanders as well. I put most of it down to an aversion to action, risk, responsibility - usually cloaked in some rationalization about how COIN requires all sorts of odd approaches to prove you can eat soup with a spoon. Nonsense. The "unconventional" parts of COIN are simply common sense - using bribes, favors, etc. when needed, and avoiding gratuitous damage to locals and non-combatants.

It's pretty deep in the British officer class. Recall one former officer, a Sandhurst grad, seriously questioning the .50 cals on some of the convoy Humvees in Baghdad as "too big for an urban environment". Now, I myself wondered about the grenade launchers (Mk 14?) on some of the Humvees, but the .50 cal? As the primary job was to stop VBIEDs in their tracks, .50 cals were quite appropriate.

I've probably mentioned it before but the morale of the officers in our office was horrible. Every last one was getting out, some early - budget, political environment, everything was discouraging. The unbelievable incident in the Gulf a while back (incl. the bits at MoD) may have been a stark symbol of how bad things are. Great shame, of course, as well as yet another step towards total dependence of world civilization on the blood and character of a small volunteer segment of US society.

What were Churchill's famous words - "never have so many owed so much to so few" .... ??

Posted by Verlaine 2007-08-19 01:57|| 2007-08-19 01:57|| Front Page Top

#4 COIN requires all sorts of odd approaches to prove you can eat soup with a spoon

:)

Posted by Thomas Woof 2007-08-19 08:08|| 2007-08-19 08:08|| Front Page Top

#5 Hey 2x4, let Iran try and rule these "people".

Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-19 08:25|| 2007-08-19 08:25|| Front Page Top

#6 Upside is, when US forces have to come in to clean up the mess, the "insurgents" who have been playing patty-cake with the brits will get a really rude surprise...

Posted by M. Murcek">M. Murcek 2007-08-19 08:52|| 2007-08-19 08:52|| Front Page Top

#7 yet another step towards total dependence of world civilization on the blood and character of a small volunteer segment of US society.

Just so.

Posted by regular joe 2007-08-19 09:12|| 2007-08-19 09:12|| Front Page Top

#8 The Brits were always stressed down in Basra, and while "just holding down the fort" was enough for most of it, there was little else they had the numbers and firepower to do. Hopefully, the situation will be settled enough elsewhere so that the US military can head down there in force to confront both the Shiite-on-Shiite action and the Iranian hanky-panky.

But spare us from advise on northern Ireland. The US has performed ten times as many effective modern counterinsurgency operations on the four corners of the world as had Britain.

When we move into Basra, we will do counterinsurgency the US way.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-08-19 09:32|| 2007-08-19 09:32|| Front Page Top

#9 British forces useless in Basra, say officials

And the downside in Basra is?

Damn those Brit Politicians, playing Army and Navy from London..

We need Allies that are cutting and running like we need Congress trying to emulate Downing Street & Whitehall....

IIRC Originally The Brits were knocked back on their ears, but eventually kicked some Basra butt, but then they quit too early, pulled way back into "Fort Basra Mode" and never fully regained leverage over the Badr Brigade, run by Hadi Al-Amiri and Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim, deadly Shiite actors working with Iran and their rivals Muqtada al Sadr & the Mahdi Army and a few Sunni enclaves.

The Brits never acquired leverage over "The Al-Quds Force" which trains Iraqi militants in manufacturing improved explosive devices and finances and organises pro-Iranian militias in Iraq," noted the the British Ahwazi Friendship Society report. "According to SPC, the Iraq network is under the command of Jamal Jaafar Mohammad Ali Ebrahimi, who is also known as Mehdi Mohandes."

Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army,
Iranian run Sheibani and Qazali networks These are Shia terrorists which are trained, armed, funded and directed by Iran's Qods Force, and have connections to Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army. Sheibani networks

So gentlemen, how many USA units do you figure it will take to "fix" Basra?

Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg 2007-08-19 09:55|| 2007-08-19 09:55|| Front Page Top

#10 So gentlemen, how many USA units do you figure it will take to "fix" Basra?

None: one daisy cutter ought to do it. Forget about the hearts and minds crap -- these swine have neither.

Posted by regular joe 2007-08-19 10:46|| 2007-08-19 10:46|| Front Page Top

#11 AC-130
Daisy Cutter
MOAB
Nuke

Is there any cliche too good for them?

Posted by Thomas Woof 2007-08-19 12:32|| 2007-08-19 12:32|| Front Page Top

#12 And, there's the supply line issue. The Basra area is our port of entry for a lot of material, equipment and troops. Not the place where you want to irradiate or destroy docks, highways and bridges wholesale.

Posted by lotp 2007-08-19 12:35|| 2007-08-19 12:35|| Front Page Top

#13 Details, minor details that can be fixed with larger ordinance and proper 'elan.

Posted by Thomas Woof 2007-08-19 12:48|| 2007-08-19 12:48|| Front Page Top

#14 Enhance Radiation Weapons. Another Carter gift that keeps on giving. Like Breeder Reactors. Our first Nuculer president.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-08-19 12:48|| 2007-08-19 12:48|| Front Page Top

#15 Real Generals thinker of logistics
Amateurs thinker of tactics.
Kinder Kz think of weapons.

Posted by Thomas Woof 2007-08-19 12:51|| 2007-08-19 12:51|| Front Page Top

#16 Why be hard on the British? It's not their war. It's wasn't their premier city center that was destroyed by muslims. How many Ameicans fought on the British side the last time British territory was invaded?

The question is why waste so many resources and treat with such gentleness those who are indoctrinated to from birth to kill or enslave us and destroy our civilization? Those who think of us as pigs and monkeys and rape is an instrument of their civilizational advancement.

Posted by ed 2007-08-19 16:20|| 2007-08-19 16:20|| Front Page Top

#17 Why the hell would the US military listen to the British military for COIN, if Northern Ireland is supposed to be their big "win"? The goddamned IRA WON! The Sein Fein is a LEGAL political party in NI, and is sharing power with the Protestants. The Sein Fein IS the IRA - just its more presentable political face. How is that a "win" for the British forces?

Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-08-19 16:36|| 2007-08-19 16:36|| Front Page Top

#18 #17 Cause you listen to your father respectfully---even if he's f*cking senile.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-19 18:49|| 2007-08-19 18:49|| Front Page Top

#19 Man, It must be a bi*** to try to due your job, while your brow sweats to the thought that a shiny 'crescent' missile is pointed at you from over your shoulder.

Posted by smn 2007-08-19 20:42|| 2007-08-19 20:42|| Front Page Top

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