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2008-08-17 Europe

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Posted by Fred 2008-08-17 00:00|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 That will get some Russian knickers in a knot.

Posted by DarthVader 2008-08-17 00:07|| 2008-08-17 00:07|| Front Page Top

#2 Seems like the law of unintended consequences just came into play.

Posted by gorb 2008-08-17 02:43|| 2008-08-17 02:43|| Front Page Top

#3 The Ukraine has 10 times the population of Georgia, 8 times the military, borders half a dozen countries other than Russia, and has 30% of the old Soviet military plants on its soil. It also produces an indigenous tank {T-84}, Antonov and MiL aircraft, missiles, artillery, and several classes of jet engines that the Russians use in their fighters. So if the Russians want to push the Ukrainians around, it will not be as easy as Georgia was to attack.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2008-08-17 03:24|| 2008-08-17 03:24|| Front Page Top

#4 Yea, so? Really think they'll going to fight Russia rather than accomodate?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-08-17 06:20|| 2008-08-17 06:20|| Front Page Top

#5 g(r)omgoru, they are trying to prevent fight in the first place by saying "you shall not pass!". But if it does not work, I think yes, they are going to fight, provided that they've got their back covered. They know that "accomodation" would mean an end of Ukraine--even if gradually, while fighting gives them some chance that is not negligible.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-17 06:31|| 2008-08-17 06:31|| Front Page Top

#6 Good move on the part of the Ukraine after what happened to Georgia. Former leader Putin and current Russian President Dmitry Medvedev have been saber rattling and saying one thing and doing another. They are power hungry. They have no respect for another country's soveregnty. Surround them with our new allies and support our new allies, i.e. contain Russia. Tell them if they even think about nuking Poland, they can start looking for a new address themselves--someplace that is still habitable. Who the hell do the Russians think they are? Inform them in certain terms the Cold War ended during the last century. Trust them to the extent that any information is verifiable. Trust them from a postion of power. They don't seem to want to be a part of any larger world community that is based on peaceful co-existence.

Posted by JohnQC 2008-08-17 08:10|| 2008-08-17 08:10|| Front Page Top

#7 Are we doing a rerun of postWWII? You get Georgia. I get Ukraine? Perhaps, Russia will lose as much this time around as we did last.

Posted by Richard of Oregon 2008-08-17 08:23|| 2008-08-17 08:23|| Front Page Top

#8 SU, the only real proponent of liberal democracy ever to hold power in the former Eastern block was Václav Havel. And he didn't last long. All these, "pro-western" leaders are just thugs & crooks who are pro-western because USA pays better than Russia. Even so, Yushchenko barely defeated his pro-Russian opponent when Russia was considered helpless. Now, that the bear is back...

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-08-17 09:28|| 2008-08-17 09:28|| Front Page Top

#9 I think russia is in a greater state of decline than most realize. Ukrainians and Eastern Europeans seem to be more emboldened towards them lately, even after seeing what happened to Georgia. I think they know.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-17 10:17|| 2008-08-17 10:17|| Front Page Top

#10 What do y'all think about the thought that came to me while reading this thread, that Russia is trying to expand control westward because they are in the process of losing Siberia to China?

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2008-08-17 13:14|| 2008-08-17 13:14|| Front Page Top

#11 What do y'all think about the thought that came to me while reading this thread, that Russia is trying to expand control westward because they are in the process of losing Siberia to China?

TW I think you've hit it, I wonder if they'll try to take Iran in my lifetime so I can watch the world's second nuclear exchange (Missed the first, wasn't born yet)

Posted by Redneck Jim">Redneck Jim 2008-08-17 13:38|| 2008-08-17 13:38|| Front Page Top

#12 Russia is doing its power play with Georgia on its mind right now because it sees the West as weak. I hate to use the analogy, but it is like Hitler did in his expansion by intimidation into Austria, Czechoslovakia, etc, before the invasion of Poland. The Allies were weak and Hitler exploited indecision and weakness to his advantage.

The Russian far east is a long logistical road from Moscow---huge distances, even for Alaska standards. The Chicoms have time. They will slowly settle Siberia---until they own it by default.

So it is really up to the West how they want to deal with Russia---from a position of strength, or from position of wimpiness. I am not talking about saber rattling. I'm talking about about standing up for what you believe is right. (assuming you believe in anything, heh).

Posted by Alaska Paul back from SE Alaska 2008-08-17 13:41|| 2008-08-17 13:41|| Front Page Top

#13 TW: What do y'all think about the thought that came to me while reading this thread, that Russia is trying to expand control westward because they are in the process of losing Siberia to China?

Wouldn't be the first time border tribes have fled the encroachment of the numerically superior Chinese. The problem for Russia is that this pressure will exist for as long as it has a border with China. I wonder if some kind of land grant program for Siberia would work. I mean a program similar to how the west was won - for people from select countries, and perhaps internally. The problem, of course, is that this would conflict with the interests of the oligarchs, who want the state's lands for themselves, without having to hold title at all.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2008-08-17 13:48|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2008-08-17 13:48|| Front Page Top

#14 RJ, the first use of nuclear weapons wasn't an exchange but a dilevery. I hope the world doesn't have to witness the first exchange.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-08-17 13:52|| 2008-08-17 13:52|| Front Page Top

#15 Russia could take out Georgia, Russia could take out Urkaine, Russia could take out the Baltic states. But what about all at once? With American support, with an hungry China looking up at the exposed Siberia.

Even if they did win and occupy all those areas I have to imagine the guerrilla/terrorist problems would make it less than worthwhile.

I think Russia made a big mistake and Putin will soon realize it.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-08-17 14:04|| 2008-08-17 14:04|| Front Page Top

#16 IMO Puttie Pute made a huge blunder invading Georgia.. they will be weaker now, relative to every ex-Soviet block satellite.

Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg 2008-08-17 14:13|| 2008-08-17 14:13|| Front Page Top

#17 Russia has big oil and gas projects going in the Russian far east. I have some friends working on them. But if they screw foreign companies working on them, like they have done in the past, they won't have any, and there goes the revenue for financing Pooty Poot's soulful adventures.

Putin is burning the candle at both ends. Once again, this shows how important it is for the US to get off the imported oil teat. But that requires vision and smarts, and not being bought off by the ME oil ticks. I consider the oil ticks, as well as the great majority of Congress the enemy of the US.

Posted by Alaska Paul back from SE Alaska 2008-08-17 14:18|| 2008-08-17 14:18|| Front Page Top

#18 NO NO NO NO! We must wait for a un resolution and THEN take action.

Posted by BHO 2008-08-17 14:19|| 2008-08-17 14:19|| Front Page Top

#19 FREEREPUBLIC > RUSSIA THREATENS TO REARM BALTIC FLEET WITH NUKES???

See also CNN [TV]> Guest ZBIGNIEW BREZINZKI > RUSSIA-GEORGIA CONFLICT + WEST: HOW TO STOP A NEW COLD WAR?

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-08-17 21:05|| 2008-08-17 21:05|| Front Page Top

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