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2010-01-21 Caribbean-Latin America

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Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2010-01-21 00:00|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top

#1 The Frenchies can't blame the trusty PHALANX CIWS-PDS on this one, iff the pier does indeed collapse!

Posted by JosephMendiola 2010-01-21 00:45|| 2010-01-21 00:45|| Front Page Top

#2 CNN reported this morning that physicians are still performing amputations without anesthesia. Most of the amputees are women, probably because they were home and inside when the quake hit.

It's been more than a week...

Posted by Gomez Threter7450 2010-01-21 02:18|| 2010-01-21 02:18|| Front Page Top

#3 Everything in Haiti is in "bad shape." It has been and probably will always be in "bad shape." Ever ask yourself why the French pulled out? Ever read a US State Dept. travel advisory or thumb through a CIA Fact Book, or e-mail a missionary. Oh, you forgot to study the region prior to sending your wife, daughter, son, etc. Sorry about that. Please label 'Hotel Montana pancakes killing everybody' and file under westerners hiking in the Iranian mountains.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-01-21 02:56|| 2010-01-21 02:56|| Front Page Top

#4 Beso, When missionaries or aid volunteers go somewhere it is almost never 'safe'; safety and the conditions they go for are incompatable.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-01-21 07:46|| 2010-01-21 07:46|| Front Page Top

#5 "If it starts to swing, run," he said.

LOL.... sounds like something a civilian defense contractor would do.

Posted by DarthVader 2010-01-21 07:55|| 2010-01-21 07:55|| Front Page Top

#6 I've got it Glemore. I just hate to see families of the victims go on teevee and blame the US Gov't, Army, Marines, etc. for not immediately rescuing their loved ones. I believe Pan said yesterday they had 50 of his people from SOCOM crawling around in the pancaked Hotel Montana when that big aftershock happened. Damn tough to lose loved ones, but don't BLAME the Marines or the Army, Navy etc. or try to say they "ignored" you kin. Nobody was marched to Haiti at the point of a bayonet.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-01-21 08:51|| 2010-01-21 08:51|| Front Page Top

#7 Besoeker - he's not with them anymore. Think more midevil.

Posted by 3dc 2010-01-21 09:01|| 2010-01-21 09:01|| Front Page Top

#8 The French really are pissing me off again.

F-OFF you frogs.

Posted by newc 2010-01-21 09:55|| 2010-01-21 09:55|| Front Page Top

#9 Now now, Newc. It's their ship and their risk. The French captain has been informed of the risks.

Posted by ed 2010-01-21 11:19|| 2010-01-21 11:19|| Front Page Top

#10 That is the effect of electing Scott Brown the French hate you again.

Posted by JFM 2010-01-21 12:03|| 2010-01-21 12:03|| Front Page Top

#11 Beso, I agree distraught parents shouldn't blame the US military for not rescuing their children soon enough from the ruins. However, US foreign policy, often in conjunction with the UN, has impacted the Haitians.
Haiti is the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere. When sailing the coast of Hispanola it is remarkable to see the landscape change from lush forest to denuded hillside right at the border between the Dominican Republic and Haiti. The damage was on the Haitian side of the island. The population of Haiti is about 9 million of which almost half live within a 15 mile radius of the earthquake epicenter.

We must look at the history of Haiti to understand how these situations came about. I had always been told that the Haitians cut down all the trees to make charcoal but that is not quite correct. After the slave revolt of 1810 the French blockaded Haiti and virtually shut off all imports and exports. This blockade lasted until 1825 when the Haitians agreed to pay France reparations in today's equivalent of $21 billion dollars. (In contrast the US bought the Louisiana Territory, an area 30 times as large as Haiti, for the equivalent of $70 billion.) At the same time France devalued Haitian imports by 50% below fair market price. In 1947, when the debt was eventually paid off, Haiti had paid more than $90 billion dollars in principle, interest and fees. The vast majority of the funds for those payments came from cutting the trees to sell to France and England.

Between 1980 and 2008 the population of metropolitan Port Au Prince doubled to almost 4 million people when the agricultural sector collapsed. Three primary factors contributed to the collapse. The first was environmental damaged caused by deforestation but the more immediate cause was trade policy. Not Haitian policy but ours. The primary agricultural products produced by Haiti are rice, sugarcane, bananas and coffee. Prior to 1980 Haiti produced almost 100% of its rice consumption. In the mid 80s the US, in the name of free trade forced Haiti to reduce the tariff on rice to 3%, about 1/3 the average for other Caribbean countries. US growers then flooded the country with imported rice. Without subsidies Haitian rice framers could not compete and rice production crashed. Unable to make a living the rice farmers moved to Port Au Prince in an attempt to find work. (The US Department of Agricultures subsidy to US rice farmers averages $1 billion per year.)They now buy foreign rice, mainly from Brazil, to subsist
on when most live on $1 per day.
At the same time, under pressure from the US sugar industry, the US cut Haitis sugar quota by 2/3 forcing several mills to close. (The quota for the Dominican Republic is 20 times that of Haiti.) Those farmers too moved to Port Au Prince. Also in the 1990s the EU, under pressure from the large Central American fruit companies, ended preferential treatment of Eastern Caribbean bananas. As a result of all of this Haitis agricultural sector has been devastated.

So keep in mind as you watch the news reports that it is not all a geological disaster but an economic one. Much of it caused by us.

Posted by Lumpy Elmoluck5091 2010-01-21 12:21|| 2010-01-21 12:21|| Front Page Top

#12 After LUMPY'S dissertation I wish to make the following statement:

You Americans are always blaming others for your problems, whining about unfair trade with us, complaining about the cost of housing our troops, supposed injustices done to you by our administration. Well it is quite clear to me that it is all your own fault.

signed: King George III

/historical snark "off"

Posted by Canuckistan sniper 2010-01-21 12:46|| 2010-01-21 12:46|| Front Page Top

#13 So keep in mind as you watch the news reports that it is not all a geological disaster but an economic one. Much of it caused by us. Posted by Lumpy

That's why I've learned to live with guilt, either real or imagined. Please pardon me while I finish this crème brulée and expresso.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-01-21 13:07|| 2010-01-21 13:07|| Front Page Top

#14 Suffice to say that there's plenty of blame to go around: American, French and Haitian. Apportion the blame as you wish.

Okay kids, now what?

Haiti needs to change its ways or else it will be a shithole for another century. But if you tell the Haitian people and leaders that they need to change their ways they'll tell you to go screw (see history lesson, above).

If we had a wise government with a long-term plan that could survive changes in administrations, I'd suggest a very quiet, gentle American oversight of Haiti. We'd respect their sovereignty; Haiti in turn would respect that in general, we know what we're doing. For a 20 to 50 year period we'd quietly advise the Haitians, and they'd listen. Both sides would officially pretend that nothing of the sort is going on.

We'd help them move their laws to common-law, their courts to be honest, and their bureaucracy to be only modestly corrupted. We'd help them again to be self-sufficient in food production. We'd help them get an education system. We'd push tourism, craftwork and agriculture. We'd work on basic sanitation, train the nurses, and pave the roads.

Maybe, maybe, maybe that would help change Haitian culture so that it would adopt some American ideas -- more business-like, more willing to take risks, more independent. All the while the Haitians would preserve the better parts of their culture (and they have better parts).

I don't know if it would work. There's all sorts of reasons why it would fail. But I'd try.

Posted by Steve White 2010-01-21 13:43|| 2010-01-21 13:43|| Front Page Top

#15 I don't like to blame America for the world's problems but the world tends to equate UN/Progressive policies with the US in general. I am a conservative and will also gladly help the UN pack up and move to Dubai, if they can't be disbanded altogether. All their policies make people dependent upon aid, giving them power over them and still look to the US taxpayers to pay for their boondoggles. I was just pointing out more of the social meddling that seemed to begin in 1947-1948 and haunts us today. think Paleos.

Posted by Lumpy Elmoluck5091 2010-01-21 15:14|| 2010-01-21 15:14|| Front Page Top

#16 There is one thing that Haiti neads first: security of private property. Without that, you can't get started on "fixing" the country.

Posted by KBK 2010-01-21 18:37|| 2010-01-21 18:37|| Front Page Top

#17 Another WaPo story that is mostly horse hockey.

The pier has been cleared for use. First ship in was a US LCU. They were expecting a cargo vessel later today. Don't know where the French came from.

Parts of the pier are damaged. They have been marked and will get light use.

The port is currently operating at a higher volume than before the quake.

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2010-01-21 22:07|| http://northshorejournal.org/haiti-earthquake-relief-update-for-jan-21 2010-01-21 22:07|| Front Page Top

#18 OK, my turn. I agree with just about all Steve says here. On a large scale it will be cheaper for us to help them grow into the second world, otherwise we will be back after a few years with billions of aid, again and again. We are doing the program Steve speaks of in some countries and with the bumps and bruises Steve's plan is a good one. The very first thing I would go after in an effort to rebuild is micro-economic ones. I would go after farmers, small manufacturing. Get USAID to rebuild highway one, the port, and small piers for villages to get to market by sea. Get the State to go to our large resort busineses and incentivise them to build destination resorts, dive resorts, etc... We could rally the NGO's to work the med clinics and schools.

This is all possible, we have done it in other countries with some levels of success.

Posted by 49 Pan 2010-01-21 22:23|| 2010-01-21 22:23|| Front Page Top

#19 PAKISTANI DEFENCE FORUM > US GETTING GUANTANAMO BAY READY FOR POSSIBLE INFLUX OF HAITIAN REFUGEES.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2010-01-21 23:04|| 2010-01-21 23:04|| Front Page Top

#20 For a 20 to 50 year period we'd quietly advise the Haitians, and they'd listen. Both sides would officially pretend that nothing of the sort is going on.

You're describing Francophone Africa, Steve. You goin' Frinch on us, or what?

Posted by lex 2010-01-21 23:55|| 2010-01-21 23:55|| Front Page Top

23:55 lex
23:50 trailing wife
23:48 trailing wife
23:47 Sherry
23:43 Sherry
23:43 Cyber Sarge
23:41 trailing wife
23:38 trailing wife
23:29 Cornsilk Blondie
23:16 JosephMendiola
23:10 JosephMendiola
23:04 crosspatch
23:04 JosephMendiola
23:00 JosephMendiola
22:37 Chereting Snetch4156
22:35 CrazyFool
22:30 49 Pan
22:25 Barbara Skolaut
22:23 49 Pan
22:15 tu3031
22:14 SteveS
22:11 SteveS
22:09 Chuck Simmins
22:07 Chuck Simmins