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2011-08-06 Afghanistan
38 dead as NATO helicopter crashes in Afghanistan
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Posted by tipper 2011-08-06 06:04|| || Front Page|| [6 views ]  Top

#1 Damn. That is a big hit.

My condolences to the families.

Damn.
Posted by Whiskey Mike 2011-08-06 07:00||   2011-08-06 07:00|| Front Page Top

#2 God protect all of our troops and their families. God take those souls that we lost in the helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan up with you, and comfort their family members in their grief. God, g8ve them, and our country, courage in this time, and also the wisdom so that we can know how our country may serve you best. Amen.
Posted by Daffy Gonque2950 2011-08-06 07:16||   2011-08-06 07:16|| Front Page Top

#3 Hate to ponder this, but was one of the afghan a boomer? Because I have a hard time believing the Helicopter was shot down.
Posted by Charles 2011-08-06 07:38||   2011-08-06 07:38|| Front Page Top

#4 ..don't rule out mechanical/structural failure. Been pressing the equipment literally for years now. There only so much you can do to replace parts without having to practically rebuild a craft. Wonder how many hours were on that bird.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-06 08:30||   2011-08-06 08:30|| Front Page Top

#5 AP says shootdown...

A senior administration official says the helicopter that crashed Saturday carrying 31 U.S. special operations forces and seven Afghan soldiers was apparently shot down by insurgents in Afghanistan.

It was the highest number of American casualties recorded in a single incident in the decade-long war. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the crash is still being investigated.
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-06 09:01||   2011-08-06 09:01|| Front Page Top

#6 There have been at least 17 coalition and Afghan aircraft crashes in Afghanistan this year. Most of the crashes are attributed to pilot errors, weather conditions or mechanical failures. However, the coalition has confirmed that at least one CH-47F Chinook helicopter was hit by a rocket propelled grenade on July 25, injuring two crew members.

Read more:
Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2011-08-06 09:06||   2011-08-06 09:06|| Front Page Top

#7 My condolences to the families that lost a loved one.
Now Mr, President, can you please make a decision to either a) bust some serious taliban ass (includes the ruling parties in those God-forsaken areas and the money we so freely send them)or b) bring all the troops home? quit dickin' around and for once in your miserable life, stop voting 'present' and do something.
Posted by USN,Ret. 2011-08-06 09:37||   2011-08-06 09:37|| Front Page Top

#8 The CH-47F Chinook design is antiquated (late 1950s design, 1962 production), and a new heavy lift helicopter should have been adopted after Vietnam. It was likely designed because the Soviets had introduced two or more heavy lift helicopters.

The Mi-6, which was introduced about the same time, was clearly superior to the Chinook in most ways: bigger, faster, more protected from ground fire, better engines, gearing and equipment.

We could just take that design, integrate new materials and electronics, and have a heck of a lot better and safer heavy lift helicopter. But Boeing lobbies hard to keep the Chinook design, with continual expensive upgrades.
Posted by Anonymoose 2011-08-06 10:06||   2011-08-06 10:06|| Front Page Top

#9 ABC News is reporting 25 of the 31 were SEALs.
Posted by Matt 2011-08-06 10:46||   2011-08-06 10:46|| Front Page Top

#10 #7 My condolences to the families that lost a loved one.
Now Mr, President, can you please make a decision to either a) bust some serious taliban ass (includes the ruling parties in those God-forsaken areas and the money we so freely send them)or b) bring all the troops home? quit dickin' around and for once in your miserable life, stop voting 'present' and do something.
Posted by USN,Ret

USN Ret:

Getting WORSE not better. The so-called Counterinsurgency (COIN) [hearts and minds] strategy in Afghanistan is a very sad failure. Pentagon leaders are quietly conceding the fact after years of donor fatique. We've not been here ten years, we've been here ONE year, ten times. Pakistan, China, Iran, our old Russian friends and others see it as a 'bleeding the bull' strategy. Time to get the phuech out of Afghanistan, Iraq, and stay at home!
Posted by Besoeker 2011-08-06 10:54||   2011-08-06 10:54|| Front Page Top

#11 Why were so many seals in a single helicopter anyway? Considering the limited number of these guys around it seems like a stupid idea to put them all together like that.
Posted by Charles 2011-08-06 11:11||   2011-08-06 11:11|| Front Page Top

#12 High value target snatch team, Charles.
Posted by Skidmark 2011-08-06 11:31||   2011-08-06 11:31|| Front Page Top

#13 deep condolences. those were highly trained, intelligent guys, the best of the best. My heart goes to their families.
Posted by anon1 2011-08-06 11:35||   2011-08-06 11:35|| Front Page Top

#14 If the Taliban shot it down with an RPG, it is a major blow to this war and the war on terrorism. If they got video, it is going to be on every Islamic channel prime time during Ramadan. They can claim it was revenge for OBL, especially killing SEALs.

They better look into spy activity.

The bottom line is a fifty year old helo was shot down by a fifty year old weapon.
Posted by Penguin 2011-08-06 11:45||   2011-08-06 11:45|| Front Page Top

#15 Why would it be an RPG? Lots of IR SAMs in neighboring and interested countries. Pakistan is dropping their mask and Iran has lost their fear of Bush. Russians and Chinese have stuff fall off the backs of trucks all the time.

Pakistan, China, Iran, our old Russian friends and others see it as a 'bleeding the bull' strategy.

Exactly. $100 billion here, $100 billion there and pretty soon we're talking real money. What I see in the whole Ummah is lots of irreplaceable life giving infrastructure built by non-muslims that the natives can't replace by themselves and can barely maintain. That's should be the target in this "War on Terror".
Posted by Eohippus Phater7165 2011-08-06 12:26||   2011-08-06 12:26|| Front Page Top

#16 Howsit, Besoeker! Your on-scene observations are worth a thousand MSM clips. Sort of reminds me of a scene back in '75/'76, chopper hit some power lines with 3 or 4 Generals on board. About the same time, we realised that Hearts and Minds doesn't work when the bad guys wear 3 different kinds of civvies, and look like civilians. Our problem was lack of everything except will. Seems sanctions are being applied to the US war effort. As with us, it will take a long time for the real sh`t to come out, and then what to do with a boondoogle of 80 year old traitors? The parallels are frightening.
Easy, bro, look after yourself, fever.
Posted by Rhodesiafever 2011-08-06 12:27||   2011-08-06 12:27|| Front Page Top

#17 May they rest in peace.

Fox is saying that the SEALS were part of Team 6 (of OBL demise fame). Islamists will use this in a 'Wrath of Allen' analogy.
Posted by Mullah Richard 2011-08-06 12:37||   2011-08-06 12:37|| Front Page Top

#18 Damn, the news just gets worse...

The Associated Press has learned that more than 20 Navy SEALs from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden were among those lost in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.

The operators from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. That's according to one current and one former U.S. official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified of the loss of their loved ones.

One source says the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-06 12:38||   2011-08-06 12:38|| Front Page Top

#19 If it was SEALs, look for ISI involvement/payback. I suspect this was not randomly targeted. Just too damned convenient.

Do not trust Pakistan. Ever.
Posted by Whiskey Mike 2011-08-06 12:52||   2011-08-06 12:52|| Front Page Top

#20 BBC is saying the shoot-down was on the way back to base.
Posted by Matt 2011-08-06 13:26||   2011-08-06 13:26|| Front Page Top

#21 With that group, ... who would have been the high value target? Maybe Number 2 who is now Number 1 and somehow, Paks got word, they were on the way...

Special thoughts to families and friends for such special men.
Posted by Sherry 2011-08-06 13:28||   2011-08-06 13:28|| Front Page Top

#22 IF, and it's a BIG If, we can prove Pakistani/ISI involvement, it's time to napalm ISI headquarters, followed by a multiship ARCLIGHT strike down through the heart of Rawalpindi/Islamabad. Let these little-minded ba$$$$$s understand what we CAN do when we get pi$$$d. Unfortunately, I doubt the "WUN" would allow anything like that. God bless the families of those who lost loved ones. I'm sure there's an honor parade in Heaven today for their souls.
Posted by Old Patriot 2011-08-06 14:08||   2011-08-06 14:08|| Front Page Top

#23 As with us, it will take a long time for the real sh`t to come out, and then what to do with a boondoogle of 80 year old traitors?

Sanction them of course, wet work, quietly in the night. Look for these to start happening soon.
Posted by Secret Asian Man 2011-08-06 15:06||   2011-08-06 15:06|| Front Page Top

#24 As with us, it will take a long time for the real sh`t to come out, and then what to do with a boondoogle of 80 year old traitors?

Sanction them of course, wet work, quietly in the night. Look for these to start happening soon.
Posted by Secret Asian Man 2011-08-06 15:06||   2011-08-06 15:06|| Front Page Top

#25 Sorry for the double. Bloody iPads.
Posted by Secret Asian Man 2011-08-06 15:09||   2011-08-06 15:09|| Front Page Top

#26 I'm steaming reading about this. Just steaming mad, no words can describe how I feel.
Posted by Charles 2011-08-06 15:15||   2011-08-06 15:15|| Front Page Top

#27 The loss is staggering. 19 from st6. I think the first reports on the 160th might be mistaken. I would check 10th mountain.
The 47 is still a strong and viable aircraft. The new 47s are stronger, faster, and a much more capable aircraft than any of the MI aircraft.
Posted by 49 Pan 2011-08-06 15:18||   2011-08-06 15:18|| Front Page Top

#28 A post 9-11 poll in the pak-terror-entity revealed 90% support for taleban-al-qaeda. And the base-city of all jihadism in pak is: Peshawar. So naturally if you put 100,000 US troops against Central Asian mohammadans, you arrange to get your fuel in Peshawar. Yah, I get it.
Posted by Thumper and Tenille2812 2011-08-06 15:46||   2011-08-06 15:46|| Front Page Top

#29 Besoeker

Do you really want to pull out, status quo ante? How about this: no US ground troops other than well protected Re-Con units, and no more precision targeting. You spot the enemy, and you drop Napalm over a large area, with no regard for collaterals. And you mine the border regions. Why do that? Because the afghan-joke-entity has $1 Trillion in Lithium deposits. There is no scenario in which that can be grabbed, without a special deal with a local power, like India or China (which holds over $Trillion in US debt). The US does have true allies in that cess pool. Northern Alliance remnants would gladly take sides against their Pashtun enemy.

Screw hearts-and-minds: go Imperial. There is no way a country like the US could possibly spend vast amounts of lives and cash, without getting quid pro quo.
Posted by Thumper and Tenille2812 2011-08-06 15:56||   2011-08-06 15:56|| Front Page Top

#30 Don't forget me.
Posted by Elphinstone 2011-08-06 16:38||   2011-08-06 16:38|| Front Page Top

#31 I swear Lithium and Rare-Earths are all the fad these day.

Fuck 'em. Airlift everything out we can, destroy and mine the rest, fast retrogade out of Pak abandon and destroy all material that can't be carried on foot, scram. Then it's time. Time for a massive airstrike
 arclite precision not required, because it's not about tactics, it's not about slide shows, it's not about YouTube, it's about killing and scaring the living shit out of your opponents and their next of kin. Just one. Then leave them to fester. Finally mine the harbour of bloody Karachi, this supply route shit works both ways.
Posted by S 2011-08-06 16:50||   2011-08-06 16:50|| Front Page Top

#32 God bless these men and their families.
Posted by JohnQC 2011-08-06 17:46||   2011-08-06 17:46|| Front Page Top

#33 Bless it.

Wonder the target which called up the best. Also wonder about the Chinook, if it was fancied up a bit and if so what got it.
Posted by swksvolFF 2011-08-06 17:51||   2011-08-06 17:51|| Front Page Top

#34 Re #8 Anymoose:
yes the basic design is from the late 50's early 60's, owever the F variant first flew in 2006. some are remanufactured 'D' models and some are new from the grond up with state of the art engines and avionics. but agree that you cannot hide something as big as a couple of mating school busses and has a radar signature just as big. but to say the bird is antiquated is a stretch.

altitude dicates the max ceiling for any aircraft and helos don't have the luxury of adding thrust and flying out of a high and hot environment which most of Afgahnistan is. so that puts them in a sweet spot for the bad guys, and i kind of like the idea of S@ 31; if we can't take it out, take it out.
i think these guys were set up.
sorry for any mis spelt words, i am still hot about this tragedy.
Posted by USN,Ret. 2011-08-06 19:15||   2011-08-06 19:15|| Front Page Top

#35 This is Pakistani ISI revenge.
Posted by john frum 2011-08-06 19:30||   2011-08-06 19:30|| Front Page Top

#36 Drive 100 of those NATO fuel trucks that are always getting burned.... right up to ISI HQ and walk away with the timers set....

Posted by Water Modem 2011-08-06 19:45||   2011-08-06 19:45|| Front Page Top

#37 A few shipping containers filled with 2000 lb bombs in the mix...
Posted by Water Modem 2011-08-06 19:47||   2011-08-06 19:47|| Front Page Top

#38 Nuke 'em dead. Af AND Pak. Nothing but a useless bunch of sub-human savages there anyway.
Posted by Scooter McGruder 2011-08-06 20:03||   2011-08-06 20:03|| Front Page Top

#39 Concur w Whiskey Mike & John Frum - 99% certain it's ISI revenge.
Posted by Glusoger Gruter1463 2011-08-06 20:35||   2011-08-06 20:35|| Front Page Top

#40 At the Small War Journal someone posted

I presume everyone has already read the news. Zabiullah Mujahid has claimed responsibility on behalf of the Taliban, but Tolo TV is suggesting it might be Hezb Islami.

I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter, but it's food for thought.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-08-06 21:16||   2011-08-06 21:16|| Front Page Top

#41 One story says they were a 'reaction' force...going to aid others under heavy fire..??

48 hour rule..??
Posted by Angaviter Angimp5208 2011-08-06 21:23||   2011-08-06 21:23|| Front Page Top

#42 Blackhawk Down* Part II

After the hit on Osama, it wasn't a secret the methodology employed. High value target would attract the SEAL team. They probably know where they operate from. It would be a manner of just the right bait to get them out. Wouldn't take much to work that process right back upon the intel, planners and commanders to entice the strike. However, the enemy wouldn't know if it was the SEAL team for sure till it got to the bait sight. You don't want to engage them there because they'll have all sorts of back up. It's the trip back and that route could only be of prescribed design. You'd have your shooters waiting on that line to bag them when they're least able to respond defensively.

That the team wasn't removed from theater after the success of the Osama raid says something about the command structure and the political pressure* to clean the place up nicely before withdraw deadlines. They had to know that the enemy would make any effort to specifically target these people, not just in country, but even outside the theater to include home.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-06 21:26||   2011-08-06 21:26|| Front Page Top

#43 CNN + FOX NEWS = both are repor its not clear at this time iff any of the SPECOPS, SEALS fatalities were directly involved in the raid agz Osama, i.e. as Individuals as opposed to Units.

Also, various Perts believe the chopper was most prob struck after completion of a large extraction mission [night-time firefight?].

ME > IMO THE PRELIMIN SCOPE IS BROAD ENUFF SUCH THAT THE ABOVE ALLEGED "FIREFIGHT" MAY OR MAY NOT HAD BEEN A INTENTIONAL "DIVERSION" BY REVENGE-MINDED MILTERRS TO LURE US SPECOPS = SEAL TEAM SIX MEMBERS INTO AMBUSH.

"MILTERRS" also read, REVENGE-MINDED PAK GOVT-ARMY = PRO-OSAMA ELEMENTS THEREIN SAME???
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-08-06 21:55||   2011-08-06 21:55|| Front Page Top

#44 You hurt a unit like this and he'll has no fury, payback will be on a grand scale.
Posted by 49 Pan 2011-08-06 23:01||   2011-08-06 23:01|| Front Page Top

23:33 James
23:01 49 Pan
22:43 Free Radical
22:34 JosephMendiola
22:18 Dale
22:17 JosephMendiola
21:55 JosephMendiola
21:39 JosephMendiola
21:35 Eohippus Phater7165
21:28 trailing wife
21:26 Procopius2k
21:23 Angaviter Angimp5208
21:23 Eohippus Phater7165
21:16 trailing wife
20:45 Perfesser
20:42 lotp
20:39 Skunky Glin****
20:35 Glusoger Gruter1463
20:32 lotp
20:17 Redneck Jim
20:12 Redneck Jim
20:08 phil_b
20:03 Scooter McGruder
19:47 Water Modem









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