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#1 Europe is what happens when you try and implement an oxymoron.
You cannot have a viable political system where the (supposedly) sovereign entity, France, Spain, etc., do not have control over their own currency. It just won't work.
So, you either have to cede most sovereignty to the EU to go along with their control of the Euro. or you have to revert to the individual currencies.
No question that the elites want the former, effectively a United States of Europe where the central government has all the power and the regions get a few crumbs; less then our states have. Leaves the UK in an anamolous position cause they'll either have to leave the EU or join the euro.
In anycase all the central bankers of the various "countries" will have to devolve into one. That should provide a few laughs when it becomes apparent.
Posted by AlanC 2012-04-24 10:20||
#2 ""It's this austerity everywhere that brings desperation to people and leads them to vote for the far-right," Hollande said yesterday in a speech in Quimper, in Brittany, where the National Front almost doubled its score from 2007."
Ergo, responsible government leads people to vote for more responsible government?
Posted by newc 2012-04-24 12:36||
#3 Makes me seem clairvoyant. Just found the following:
EU PREPARES GREECE FOR RETURN OF DRACHMA
The European Investment Bank was preparing for the break-up of the euro last night
Tuesday April 24,2012
By Martyn Brown, Political Correspondent
Found it under the tag of "Living in interesting times". link
Posted by AlanC 2012-04-24 13:41||
#4 Leaves the UK in an anamolous position cause they'll either have to leave the EU or join the euro.
By design. The word they use is engrenage, i.e., crank the gear one more notch. It goes in only one direction.
Posted by RandomJD 2012-04-24 13:59||
#5 You cannot have a viable political system where the (supposedly) sovereign entity, France, Spain, etc., do not have control over their own currency.
Two solutions to that:
a) return currency controls to individual sovereign nations
b) impose a single sovereignty over all those countries
Your guess which was intended from the start.
Posted by lotp 2012-04-24 14:34||
#6 Yep, the whole history of the EU dating back to the '20s was for the continent to be subsumed. Kinda had a little hiccup in the '30s & '40s but that served to accelerate the movement with the first treaty of the Coal & Steel Community circa 1950 rith on up to the present day.
Still may crumble at least around the edges due to trying to take on too much at once with all the countries...fall of USSR...etc.
We will see, but, the EU is not at all a democracy and was never so intended.
Posted by AlanC 2012-04-24 14:48||
#7 Bingo, AlanC. But - the 20s? The EU is the fourth attempt to unite Europe. The first three were Charlemagne, Napoleon, and Hitler. Not sure why they thought this would work out any better.
Posted by RandomJD 2012-04-24 17:39||
#8 "Not sure why they thought this would work out any better."
Because of the definition of insanity, Random. :-(
Posted by Barbara 2012-04-24 17:41||
#9 I said when the Germans abandoned the Deutschemark* that they'd regret it - looks like I was right. :-(
*Didn't much care about the other countries.
Posted by Barbara 2012-04-24 17:43||
#10 Hell, many Germans regretted it at the time! So did the Dutch. Always getting swallowed by grand European projects.
To be fair, I'd say it's situational myopia. Like women who keep winding up with wife-beaters. They recognize the pattern, but not that their own decision-making is the problem. And, well, look at the US. We put Ogabe in charge and getting rid of him is not a given. We've fucked ourselves pretty good too, so I'm disinclined to accuse Europeans of insanity/stupidity these days.
Posted by RandomJD 2012-04-24 18:45||
#11 The Germans couldn't actually "regret" it (the people, that is) because they were never asked.
There would never have been a majority for that in Germany.
Eurocrats still try to convince the Germans that they benefitted from the Euro. Cheaper expots and all that.
They seemed to have a point. But Germany managed to export its stuff very well under a strong Deutschmark, and we're finding out now that many Euroland countries bought our stuff but couldn't afford to pay for it. We're paying off their debts they accumulated with buying our products (and corruption, of course).
Won't go on forever.
Posted by European Conservative 2012-04-24 22:10||
#12 Agreed, EC. I make a sharp distinction between Europe's rulers, and the ruled.
Right, so the exports were purchased with a credit card, they now can't pay, and Germans are being handed the bill. On top of solidarity tax (if that is still in effect?); and if I understand correctly, Germany only recently (2009?) completed paying WWI reparations.
No, it won't go on forever - it can't. I'm surprised that Merkel remains so committed to The European Project. Being a physicist from the DDR, I expected her to recognize the folly of a centralized superstate. But I suppose suggesting the alternative - a return to the sovereign nation-state - is just too radical. Similar problem in the US.
Posted by RandomJD 2012-04-24 23:08||