Article

2013-07-26 Government

Military to transition to Green eco-friendly Bullets

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Posted by Besoeker 2013-07-26 09:55|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top

#1 Hot Damn, a sale on ALL surplus Bullets,(Unless they trash ALL of them)
What a ~~Government waste~~. (Nevermind, redundant)

Posted by Redneck Jim 2013-07-26 11:10|| 2013-07-26 11:10|| Front Page Top

#2 Can we also transition to green, eco-friendly enemies?

Posted by Iblis 2013-07-26 12:24|| 2013-07-26 12:24|| Front Page Top

#3 Green yes. Eco-friendly, no.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2013-07-26 13:19|| 2013-07-26 13:19|| Front Page Top

#4 Did I miss the cost per unit part of the post?

I recall many discussions about the weight soldiers are carrying, but never a complaint about 'too much ammo'.

Posted by Procopius2k 2013-07-26 14:18|| 2013-07-26 14:18|| Front Page Top

#5 Use steel, not lead, the Russians do.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2013-07-26 14:31|| 2013-07-26 14:31|| Front Page Top

#6 Depleted Uranium....

Posted by CrazyFool 2013-07-26 14:35|| 2013-07-26 14:35|| Front Page Top

#7 Use less lead by using lard-filled hollow points.

Posted by gorb 2013-07-26 14:59|| 2013-07-26 14:59|| Front Page Top

#8 I recall many discussions about the weight soldiers are carrying, but never a complaint about 'too much ammo'.
Posted by: Procopius2k

Yep, ammo, water, and Class-1 always won out over BATS and HIDES. Strange how that seemed to routinely happen.

Posted by Besoeker 2013-07-26 15:46|| 2013-07-26 15:46|| Front Page Top

#9 A serious point: if replacing lead with [insert material here] means a better and lower-cost bullet (won't weigh less because its mass is an integral part of its stopping power), and along the way it turns out to be eco-friendly, who's to complain? Not me.

That's the way technology works.

But if it's a more expensive bullet that doesn't work as well then it's a problem.

Posted by Steve White 2013-07-26 16:34|| 2013-07-26 16:34|| Front Page Top

#10 Did some quick research.

M855A1 - Enhanced Performance Round. It replaces the M855.

From Guns&Ammo: They juiced the round up so that it will fly at 3,100 fps. This would be a great achievement except for the fact that they did it by increasing the chamber pressure from 55,000 psi to 63,000 psi... I would be remiss if I didnt mention that the new round cuts barrel life by almost 50 percent.

But no amount of tuning is going to alter the fact that the EPR has a 5.5 MOA accuracy standard. 5.5 MOA? Seriously? The Mk 318 SOST round that the USMC has fielded in Afghanistan is held to a 2 MOA standard, but the latest and greatest round that its being replaced by is held to a 5.5 MOA standard?

Additionally, the Mk 318 has better terminal ballistics against soft targets, holds together better through intermediate barriers and costs half what the M855A1 costs. In this era of dramatic cost-cutting, it is absolutely mind-boggling as to why they are insisting on fielding a round so inferior in just about every aspect to one thats already in theater and pay twice as much for it! ... fares very poorly against windshield glass and other intermediate barriers. It also does not penetrate SAPI body armor or its equivalent.

You do know the California Assembly passed a resolution to ban lead ammo. J.Brown IIRC only needs to sign it.

Lastly if I read correctly, the slug is copper with a steel core. I hope it is - environmentalists be damned, muhahahaahaha. My grandfather warned me not to use copper nails when building my tree forts. Copper nails kill trees. And yup - a quick www search shows its true.

Posted by mossomo 2013-07-26 19:18|| 2013-07-26 19:18|| Front Page Top

#11 thefirearmblog.com Green ammo strikes again! Makes soldiers sick

The report states that the gas exhausted from the rifles contained high levels of copper and zinc which account for all the symptoms suffered by the riflemen. A few, quite comical, short term solutions have been recommended. These include only shooting outside, slower rate of fire and spacing the shooters out more when at the range!

Hat Tip - thisainthell.us article

Posted by swksvolFF 2013-07-26 20:29|| 2013-07-26 20:29|| Front Page Top

#12 Here is a comparison link.

http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/M855A1-Enhanced-Performance-Round2.jpg

Most of these rounds will be fired on the range, and keeping lead out of them will avoid a lot of problems. However, in the field, I am not so sure they are a good deal for the solder.

Posted by rammer 2013-07-26 22:26|| 2013-07-26 22:26|| Front Page Top

#13 But that makes no sense, in the practice with what you will use theory, other than just basic mechanics.

Posted by swksvolFF 2013-07-26 22:48|| 2013-07-26 22:48|| Front Page Top

#14 Right,

Fight like you train, train like you fight.

So, if they are bad in the field, they are bad on the range.

Posted by rammer 2013-07-26 23:10|| 2013-07-26 23:10|| Front Page Top

23:10 rammer
22:48 swksvolFF
22:26 rammer
22:23 USN, Ret.
22:19 Uncle Phester
22:16 Pappy
21:46 Thing From Snowy Mountain
21:21 Alaska Paul
21:14 Alaska Paul
20:32 Frank G
20:31 Frank G
20:29 swksvolFF
19:42 newc
19:22 Uncle Phester
19:18 mossomo
19:12 Uncle Phester
19:01 AlanC
18:50 Tyranysaurus Sneth4452
18:30 RandomJD
18:01 JFM
17:46 lord garth
17:06 Shipman
17:04 Shipman
17:01 Shipman