U.S. troops seized a large cache of weapons, including hundreds of mortars, rockets and land mines, and detained four suspects on Saturday during a sweep in southern Afghanistan. The cache was found inside several buildings in a walled compound near the southern Sami Ghar mountains, where hundreds of U.S.-led troops are hunting for terror suspects in a broad new operation, said Lt. Col. Michael Shields, a senior operations officer of the coalition task force. "To put it in perspective, we're still counting," Shields said, calling it the largest find in months. "In recent history, the size of this is significant." The troops also arrested two suspected rebels near the weapons cache, Shields said, though he declined to provide further details. The cache included hundreds of rocket-propelled grenade launchers and rounds, high-caliber machine guns, mortar rounds, anti-tank and anti-personnel mines and "too much ammunition of all caliber to count currently," Shields said. For a weapons cache in Afghanistan to be significant, it's got to be big time...
Troops also apprehended two other suspected rebels and seized a much smaller cache of ammunition and light machine guns on Friday, Army spokesman Col. Roger King said earlier. Shields said that smaller cache included documents that referred to regional leaders of rebel forces. Good idea. Round up all their friends and beat them up...
The seizure came as suspected Taliban and Hizb-e-Islami renegades killed three Afghan soldiers at a post elsewhere in the southern Kandahar province. Gunmen traded fire with soldiers in the Wath army post, about 20 miles south of Spinboldak, for about an hour, then fled, said Fazaluddin Agha, the head of administration in Spinboldak district. He said they were believed to be from the former Taliban regime or with Hizb-e-Islami. Separately, Afghan soldiers on the U.S.-led sweep seized bombs, guns and ammunition and arrested 13 people said to be linked to the former Taliban regime, Abdul Raziq, police chief of Spinboldak district, where part of the search was conducted. Authorities were questioning the men â five of whom admitted having links with the Taliban, he said. I hope to hell they're not being gentle with them. Reading todays's Iraq war news doesn't make me feel very indulgent of Islamists...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 06:53 pm ||
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A U.S. Air Force helicopter crashed in Afghanistan Sunday, killing all six people on board. The HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopter was on a medical evacuation mission when it crashed at about 11:20 a.m. EST, about 18 miles north of Ghazni, Afghanistan, U.S. Central Command said in a statement. The helicopter was not shot down, the statement said. The precise cause of the crash is under investigation. U.S. Military officials in Washington and Afghanistan said The medical emergency and the helicopter flight was not in connection with Operation Valiant Strike, a mission involving members of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division in southeastern Afghanistan.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 06:35 pm ||
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It's a not very-well known fact that the vast majority of all aircraft accidents are due to pilot error. Sounds to me like that may well be the case here.
As American and British cruise missiles create havoc in Baghdad, a US general has accused the West of failing to do enough to rebuild the last country visited by President Bush's military — Afghanistan. His remarks come amid widespread fury in the international community over the US-British invasion of Iraq, coupled with concern that the onslaught began before adequate preparations had been made for a possible humanitarian crisis. A crisis that so far hasn't materialized.
The chief of the US forces in Afghanistan, Lt-Gen Dan McNeill, said he was "frustrated" that the West had "not made a more bold step" to rebuild Afghanistan, adding that this could be an important lesson for Iraq. The US search for al-Qa'ida and the Taliban would have been easier if the aid had flowed faster, he said. I'm sure the French are right there with all sorts of aid. They wouldn't fail, now, would they?
His remarks echo the worries of many in Afghanistan's capital city of Kabul, ranging from international aid workers to officials in the unstable transitional government of President Hamid Karzai. Fears abound that the war in Iraq, and its aftermath, will mean that international support falls away.
What will make international support fall away will be the imposition of an Islamist system on the country, rather than paying any attention to fostering individual liberties. Since that seems to be what's going on in fact, I can't see rebuilding Afghanistan so it can be Iran as being at the top of our list of priorities anymore. They've had their chance, they're well along in the process of blowing it.
Although the US has repeatedly portrayed post-war Afghanistan as a success story, frustration has been steadily growing on the ground over the slow pace of reconstruction, which in many cases has scarcely begun. General McNeill — who commands 10,500 troops in Afghanistan, of whom 8,500 are American — said that foreign aid had helped avert a humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan, but some countries had not fulfilled subsequent aid promises. Speaking at Bagram air base outside Kabul, he said: "What is needed now is an overstep by the international community towards reconstruction. Clearly there is a lesson to be learnt for those who have responsibility for other conflicts and post-conflict situations."
The lesson is, keep a close eye on the Islamists, because they're going to try and take over as soon as you've taken the boot from their collective neck.
The rebuilding of Afghanistan, after a quarter of a century of conflict, has been plagued by squabbles between the US military and international aid agencies, by continuing violence, and by the new government's lack of security control over most of the country. In most of Afghanistan, fundamental components of the infrastructure — health services, power supplies, communications, education, security services and a road network — are either rudimentary or missing altogether. All true, but the country is slowly pulling itself together.
Funds for reconstruction have been been a problem from the early stages. A year ago, the World Bank estimated that $10.2bn (£6.5bn) would be needed over the following five years, but international pledges were for about half that sum. According to a recent report by Care International, the per capita spending of aid money in Afghanistan last year was well under half that of post-conflict Bosnia, Kosovo, Rwanda and East Timor. Despite his criticisms, Lt-Gen McNeill said that the US military's mission was "going very well". In the run-up to the start of the Iraq invasion, there had been feverish media reports that the net was closing in on Osama bin Laden. But the general said he had "no compelling evidence" either way to suggest that Osama bin Laden was dead or alive. He spoke as his forces were involved in their largest operation for more than a year, hunting through villages and mountains of south-eastern Afghanistan. Their mission has grown beyond a man-hunt for Bin Laden, al-Qa'ida and Taliban elements to encompass other armed elements — such as those led by the warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. It has been complicated by growing opposition to the US military presence, coupled with attacks aimed at destabilising the Karzai government and spoiling efforts to build an Afghan national army. That would be the afore-mentioned Hek.
There was more evidence of this yesterday. Police officials yesterday said that three Afghan soldiers were killed and four kidnapped in pre-dawn attacks on security checkpoints near Spin Boldak in eastern Afghanistan. Hek again. Perhaps someone should send him a cell phone and instructions on when to turn it on.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 07:55 am ||
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It's the Independent.They'll be writing like this in twenty years time:"Afghanistan Still Not Like Beverly Hills,What Went Wrong?"
Posted by: El Id ||
03/23/2003 3:27 Comments ||
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It's pretty sad that this sort of piece can be taken for journalism. Surely any investigation about what's happening in Afghanistan should involve going to Afghanistan and finding out, not rely on second hand statements, probably taken out of context.
For example the sentence: "Frustration has been steadily growing on the ground over the slow pace of reconstruction". Frustration by whom? Aid organisations? Afghanis?
Posted by: g wiz ||
03/23/2003 8:30 Comments ||
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Part of the problem with the NGO aid groups is an ongoing one. They understandably do not want to move around and work under the flags of non-Moslem nations (especially the US) for fear of being accused of being an arm of those governments, while the various military groups are fearful that the aid groups may get into trouble (even killed) and the military will be blamed for not protecting them.
Posted by: John Anderson ||
03/23/2003 12:48 Comments ||
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This shows that, whilst we ought not to impede "charitable" NGOs in any way (beyond telling their field workers, "It's really not safe out there; go at your own risk"), neither ought we to use them or depend on them to distribute aid.
As for the political situation in Afghanistan, allowing its creation was a grave error on the part of the U.S.; Afghan are simply not well-indoctrinated enough to accept a highly centralized regime. A loose federation formally recognizing the warlords and tribal chieftains (similar to medieval England) would have been better. Hopefully, we will not repeat this same error in Iraq.
Posted by: John ||
03/23/2003 14:15 Comments ||
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Humanitarinism Inc. bitching about their money? Jeez, I've NEVER heard that before. As they say on the Big Dig up here, "Don't kill the job."
No doubt the blogosphere will be abuzz today...
Michael Moore criticized President Bush (Ethel, get Fred his pills) and the U.S.-led war in Iraq during his acceptance speech at Sunday's Academy Awards, drawing a partial standing ovation (well, they stood up when his name was announced but sat down pretty quick once he opened his yap) and more than a few some jeers from Hollywood's elite.
The documentary maker won his first Oscar for "Bowling for Columbine," but he brought the other nominees on stage with him in what he called a show of solidarity for wishful thinking nonfiction during these "fictitious times."
"We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president," Moore said. "We live in a time where we have a man who's sending us to war for fictitious reasons, whether it's the fiction of duct tape or the fiction of orange alerts. Guess that's a fictitious 100-acre chemical plant we found yesterday too.
Applause gave way to some boos, as the orchestra began playing to cue the filmmaker to leave the stage.
"I am We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush. Shame on you," Moore shouted.
Afterward, host Steve Martin tried to restore levity.
"It was so sweet backstage, you should have seen it," Martin joked. "The Teamsters were helping Michael Moore into the trunk of his limo." "But they couldn't get the lid shut."
Ralph Nader said his 2000 presidential candidacy — which some say siphoned off votes that could have meant a Democratic victory — is not to blame for President Bush or his war. The war in Iraq developed instead, he said, from ``a messianic militaristic determination turned by a closed mind, facilitated by a cowering Congress and opposition Democrat Party and undeterred by a 'probing' press.'' Bush is acting ``in effect as a selected dictator,'' Nader told the Mercury News in an interview Friday. The president has not listened to any of the many retired admirals, generals and foreign-policy experts who have warned against the war, Nader said. And the stated reasons for going to war ``have either been disproved or greatly distorted,'' he said. The greatest danger will come, Nader said, after the war has been won. Bush, whom he called ``a hit-and-run president,'' will not stick with the difficult, protracted process of rebuilding Iraq and making it democratic, he said. The warring factions Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has held at bay will dissolve into Shiite Muslims against Sunni Muslims against secular Baath Party loyalists, and Kurds fighting invading Turks, he said. ``For a cheap political advantage, the administration will destroy freedoms and civil rights, undermine our economy and destroy the position of the United States in the world,'' Nader said. I've got this filed under "Fifth Column," but that's only because I don't have a category called "STFU" — yet.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 05:59 pm ||
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Nader calls Bush 'dictator'
Phillips calls Nader 'buffoon'
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
03/23/2003 18:26 Comments ||
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"Buffoon" is much too kind. Nader's been breathing too much oxygen.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 18:46 Comments ||
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he's only trying to ingratiate himself with his base. Michael Kinsley in a friday (or was it thursday?) Washington Post opinion piece called Bush the closest thing to dictator of the world. As a Republican I can only encourage these people to speak up and encourage others in the Dem party base to do the same...heh heh
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 19:57 Comments ||
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People who worked for Nader say he is a control freak, nitpicky and requires everyone to put in 80 hour weeks. Frankly, I'd rather work for a dictator.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/23/2003 21:10 Comments ||
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Yeah, Ralph. I sure wish you were president. I'd be taking home 20 bucks a week, having tofu and water for dinner, walking to work, and living in a biodegradable tent. I'd also probably learing Arabic. Another 60's derelict...
#8
Nader must have seen the trial lawyers stop contributing and is beating the bushes for more danegeld.
Posted by: TJ Jackson ||
03/23/2003 22:18 Comments ||
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need i remind everyone that if had not been for Nader Al Gore would be President now?? Does Mr. Nader still think that Mr. Gore wouod have run things no differently than Pres. Bush has? If so he should say so, as that would be quite interesting, from my point of view. OTOH if he thinks it would have been different, he should explain what that says about his own campaign.
Within hours of Abdul Majid Dar's murder, clashes broke out at Hizb-ul-Mujahideen camps in PoK between the slain leader's followers and members of the faction led by Hizb supreme commander Syed Salahuddin. There were clashes at camps in Kotli, Mirpur, Oggi, Jungal-Mangal, Haripur and Gadhi-Dupatta, senior officials said quoting specific inputs. All in Pak Kashmir, where the thugs are based. But Pak's not involved. Nope. Nope.
Dar was slated to take charge of these ISI-run stations, where tensions between the two factions had been simmering. "Obviously Salahuddin could not digest this," a senior official said. High placed sources were sure of Salahuddin's hand in the murder of the Kashmir-born Dar. They think Salahuddin was nervous over the prospect of an imminent test of strength. Salahuddin's men are believed to have been behind the recent murder of a Kashmiri journalist, Parvez Sultan, who had written a story about the impending break-up of Hizb. A series of clashes between the two factions has been noted since mid-2002. The biggest of them occurred at the Haripur camp inside PoK in November, in which two Salahuddin loyalists were killed. Since then, the ISI has taken care to keep the two factions separate. Most of Dar's boys were kept in the Tanzeem camp in PoK, but even those kept in the other stations were lately found switching loyalty to the Kashmiryat cause espoused by Dar. Salahuddin likes the comfort of his office...
Salahuddin had sabotaged a ceasefire that Dar unilaterally declared in July 2000. At the ISI's prodding, Salahuddin insisted on the inclusion of Pakistan in the dialogue table. Salahuddin had been finding himself boxed in by Dar's rising popularity and the Indian security forces' tight vigilance on the Line of Control. He had been forced to move his loyalists through the Bangladesh route. Sunday's murder was, therefore, planned with a view to end a turf war that was slipping out of the ISI's control. So now all the gunnies are going to say "hokay" and fall into line so nobody kills them, too...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 02:45 pm ||
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Gunmen on Sunday shot to death the former leader of Kashmir's largest Islamic rebel group in what may have been retribution for talks with the Indian government. The slaying of Abdul Majid Dar, former Kashmir commander of the Hezb-ul Mujahedeen, was a setback for Indian security authorities, who were trying to persuade the former leader to take a political role in the state wracked by 13 years of separatist violence. Dar was fatally shot in the town of Sopore, a separatist stronghold 35 miles north of Srinagar. Dar's mother and sister also were injured in the shooting by masked men, said K. Rajindra Kumar, the inspector general of police. Local news agencies in Srinagar received calls from two separatist groups, both of whom claimed responsibility for the attack. Syed Tajammul, a spokesman of the Save Kashmir Movement, said it had carried out the killing "for his activities against the movement." A similar claim was made by Faisal Nasir, who said he was a spokesman of the al-Nasreen group.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 12:20 pm ||
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Aljazeera correspondent in Baghdad said that at least several explosions have struck Iraqi cities today, at noon, while American and British forces continued its raids on the city. US B52 bombers shortly took off from Fairford air base in southwestern England to carry out a new raid on Iraq.
Meanwhile, Iraqi forces launched an attack on Umm Qasr, which American and British forces sought to control, Kuwaiti officials reported some American military sources as saying that if the Iraqi attack continued " it would be resisted by aircrafts". Umm Qasr port, facing a gulf channel, is a strategic and important point.
Al Sahaf declared in a press conference that Americans transported a big number of tanks from Nasiriya towards Umm Qasr to beef up forces there, yet, it was resisted by Iraqi forces, which burned four tanks, killed and captured a number of American soldiers, while "others escaped".
He indicated a shooting down of a fighter jet south Nasiriya . He added that resistance confronted an American unloading operation in Al Gabaish, AL-Ahwar, in Nasiriya . He reported death and detention of some American soldiers.
Damages to the invader troops
Meanwhile, Iraqi Information Minister, Muhammad Sa'id Al-Sahaaf, said that Iraqis have shot down five of the enemy fighter jets together with two helicopters. Four of them were shot down above Baghdad while the fifth was dropped over Al-Basra, south Iraq, Iraqi military spokesman, general, Hazem Al Rawy said . He added that two helicopters were shot down in Mosul, north and Al-Samawa . He did not say when they were shot down.
Taha Yasin Ramadan
On the other hand, Iraqi vice-president, Taha Yasin Ramadan, as he first appeared since news of his assassination at the beginning of the invasion, said that Iraqis captured American soldiers during resistance in Souk al Shuyukh city, in Nasiriya. The Minister mentioned nothing of their number, yet, he assured that Iraqi television would soon show their photos, together with tanks, American military vehicles, destroyed by the Iraqis.
Ramadan praised Iraqi resistance in Umm Qasr which American and British forces sought to control four days ago. He assured that Umm Qasr was not ready for fighting, since it is located in the DMZ, "so what about other armed regions, ready to fight years ago".
I tried to fix the Arabglish phrases here but I have no idea how to make that one any better. All your base are belong to us.
American Central Command in Al Sayliyah base in Doha denied Iraqi declarations concerning soldiers' capture and aircrafts shooting down.
In the same context, Iraqi TV reported that remains of an Israeli-made missile were found in Baghdad as was fired by the Americans over the Iraqi capital. The Iraqi television said that the Iraqis found a missile on which " Jerusalem" is written, indicating to a " the Zionist American conspiracy " against Iraq . Ah, yes, those Zionists... always a convenient target for blame.
Bombardment of Tekrit and Mosul
In previous developments, Iraqi television said that four persons were killed in the American-British bombardment of Tikrit city, birthplace of Iraqi president. Saddam Hussein . The second bombardment, since last Friday, aimed at several sites, including Tikrit museum, that was totally bombed as Iraqi vice-president said .
Probably going after some more baby-milk factories.
Iraqi soldiers during a parade in Tikrit ( Archives )
On the other hand, eyewitnesses in Mousel, in northern Iraq, reported two explosions near the city.
On the other hand, Aljazeera correspondent there reported a missile and air bombardment on Mosul. This took place shortly after a bombardment of the city surroundings. The correspondent said that many missiles fell on the city, before safety sirens were heard.
Meanwhile, a Jordanian governmental source declared that four Jordanian students were killed in Mosul bombardment, after a missile exploded beside their car.
Aljazeera correspondent in Alsulimania, in northern Iraq, reported that American bombers have bombarded again Khormal area near Iranian-Iraqi borders in north Iraq, where members of Islamic group and Ansar Al Islam are positioned. The area has been intensively bombed yesterday, morning, killing 57 persons of both groups.
#1
I got this off the Al-Jazeera website. Thought it would be interesting to read their spin on the latest news. I misused a translator to obtain this and only "fixed" the really obvious stuff. Still, I think it's interesting and I always wanted to contribute something here. Hope I did it all right!
U.S. forces have captured a possible chemical weapons lab in the city of Najaf, ABCNEWS has learned. The discovery came as 12 missing American soldiers are believed to have fallen into Iraqi hands after being ambushed.
Still, amid the bloodshed in Nasiriya, military troops made a potentially key conquest. Up the road from Nasiriya, in the city of Najaf, troops overtook what appears to be a chemical weapons plant, sources told ABCNEWS' John McWethy, and the commanding general of the plant surrendered.
One official said the general could be "a potential gold mine" of information about the production and location of weapons of mass destruction that the United States has accused Saddam Hussein of hiding.
Some 1,000 Marines were engaged in intensive house-to-house fighting in Nasiriya, a strategically located city on the main road to Baghdad.
"United States Marines defeated an enemy attack there while sustaining a number of killed and wounded in the sharpest engagement of the war thus far," Lt. Gen. John Abizaid told a news briefing in Doha, Qatar.
He did not have exact casualty figures, but said he believed the number of Marines killed would "remain less than 10." The apparent capture of the U.S. soldiers came during one of several ambushes in the Nasiriya area.
"We believe them to be in the custody of the irregulars who coordinated the ambush," Central Command Operations Officer Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks told the briefing in Doha.
The group, made up of maintenance workers, was part of a supply convoy that is believed to have taken a wrong turn outside Nasiriya while on a mission to carry out repair work.
The group was traveling in a column of six vehicles that encountered a roadblock and came under heavy fire. A number of other soldiers were wounded in the attack and evacuated by helicopter, military officials said.
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http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/Primetime/iraq_main030323.html
#1
Key word is 'potential.' FoxNews now has Centcom saying:
"troops were examining "sites of interest," but did not elaborate. The statement said reports describing the discovery as a chemical weapons factory were "premature."
Like many stories in this campaign, it'll change a bunch of times before we have an idea of what's going on.
WASHINGTON â What will the world discover, after the war is over, about which countries secretly helped Saddam obtain components for terror weapons?
Last week, I wrote that French brokerage was involved in the illicit transfer of the chemical HTBP, a rubbery base for a rocket propellant, from a Chinese company through Syria to Iraq.
When Christiane Amanpour asked President Jacques Chirac about it on CBS's "60 Minutes," he replied: "Because The New York Times is a serious newspaper, as soon as I read this I ordered an inquiry. I can now confirm officially, after an inquiry by the French foreign ministry, France and French companies have never endorsed or even provided such material to Iraq. So I am clearly denying this allegation."
Mr. Chirac knows more than I do about trade with Iraq: in the late 1970's, he facilitated France's multibillion-dollar sale of the Osirak nuclear reactor to the rising Saddam. (After Iraq officially stated that the reactor's purpose was not to incinerate Tehran but "to eliminate Zionism," Israel destroyed it.)
Let me supply Mr. Chirac with some documentation that the Inspector Clouseau in his foreign ministry cannot find.
On Aug. 25, 2002, e-mail went from the director general of CIS Paris to Qilu Chemicals in China regarding a preliminary order: "We are about to have one of our affiliates open a L/C [Letter of Credit] for an initial order of 20,000 kg. of sealant type HTBP-III. . . . The drums should have a label mentioning the nature of the goods, same as your sample: `modified polybatadiene [sic] sealant type III,' it is not necessary that the label shows the name of your company."
Ten days later, on Sept. 4, this response came from Qilu: "Thank you for your order to our HTPB-III! We just have sent a 40-foot container to Tartous (Syria) last month. I am not sure whether the container is in your warehouse now." A month later, Qilu sought a "formal order."
A Times colleague in Paris visited CIS early last week. The director, Jean-Pierre Pertriaux, acknowledged the documents but said someone else had filled the order. I duly reported his denial.
Mr. Pertriaux has since written to me to denounce my column as "mostly imagination and slander." He argues, in a rambling fashion, "About HTPB, one of the uses of this chemical is as a binder for rocket propellant, one of the possible rocket style is long-range missile, which I personally know for sure the Iraqis do not have (the CIA know it still better): so the supply of HTPB is legal, it is not forbidden by the UN except for a use which does not exist, though it is unpleasant if you plan to invade Iraq and do not want to face field rockets or anti-tank weapons."
But what about those e-mail notes? "My company never supplied HTPB to Iraq (but it considered this eventuality) we know the Chinese QiLu company, they boasted to have shipped HTPB to promote their business but never actually did."
Then, "leaving you a chance to show that you distorted the truth, but did not organize a lie," the French broker pointed elsewhere: "Three shipments (totaling 115.8 tons) have actually been made from USA via Jordanian traders."
He didn't name the supposed suppliers, but I was able to check his assertion that "the supply of HTPB is legal" with an assistant secretary of state, John Wolf. "All military-related sales to Iraq are banned by several U.N. resolutions," countered Mr. Wolf, the man in charge of our nonproliferation bureau. "This is rocket fuel you're talking about. The fact that Iraq was permitted to have missiles in the sub-150-kilometer range does not therefore allow the import of such fuel. Any sale to Iraq, except for humanitarian goods, requires the approval of the U.N. sanctions committee." The U.S. is on that committee and never approved such a sale.
Is this component of fuel propelling "unpleasant" weapons in Iraq now, to be used against our troops? I have no proof of that. But the name of the Iraqi arms merchant who handled the shipment when it arrived in Syria is no mystery. After the war, he'll sing, same as Saddam's runners of Al Qaeda agents.
Then President Chirac, all injured innocence, may castigate the foreign minister who too quickly assured him that a column about a French connection was "devoid of all foundation.
LINK : http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/opinion/20SAFI.html
BAKRAJO, Iraq: Four U.S. military cargo planes carrying several hundred Special Forces troops landed overnight at this airstrip in Iraq's Kurdish-held north in advance of a new front in the ground war against Iraq, Kurdish officials said today. The troops would deploy "around the area," a senior Kurdish official said.
Later today, journalists watched as a convoy of three buses and three trucks carried about 100 U.S. troops into the Halabja Valley near the Iranian border, where two nights of airstrikes have targeted an Islamic extremist group associated with al Qaeda. The airstrikes, which a Kurdish official said may have killed more than 100 of Ansar al-Islam's 700 to 900 fighters, were scheduled to continue for at least one more night before ground forces move forward, officials said. U.S. troops will take part in the ground offensive, the Kurdish official said, but declined to say in what numbers. Before today, estimates of U.S. troops in the north ranged from 60 to 130.
Most of the arriving U.S. forces are expected to steer toward the larger war against the government of Saddam Hussein, with Special Forces troops preparing the way for an airborne assault aimed at taking the strategic oil cities of Mosul and Kirkuk. This morning and again after sunset allied warplanes bombed artillery and rocket positions near Mosul, the Kurds said. "This thing is changing. It's changing big time," said the Kurdish official, referring to U.S. plans for Iraq's north. "There are many surprises in this war. Many, many surprises."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 07:16 pm ||
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Awesome!
Posted by: Anna ||
03/23/2003 20:06 Comments ||
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Go to link for entire article. It really couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Lloyd was a true pro, notable for being the first journalist into Halabja after the gas attack in 1988.
There is now sufficient evidence to believe that ITV News Correspondent Terry Lloyd was killed in an incident on the Southern Iraq war front yesterday. It is believed his body is in a Basra hospital, which is still under Iraqi control. Two members of his team, Fred Nerac and Hussein Osman, are still missing and currently there is no information on their whereabouts or condition.
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He was a nice guy, a straight-up, no-nonsense, unbiased reporter (stand up). Not your all-too-common BBC or Channel 4 barely-constrained Das Kapital thumper.
Iraq said on Sunday that it would respect the Geneva Convention guaranteeing humane treatment of prisoners after taking at least five U.S. soldiers captive and displaying them on television. "Iraq will not harm the captured prisoners of war," Defense Minister Sultan Hashim Ahmed told a news conference. "It will treat them in accordance with the Geneva Convention on prisoners of war." Starting any time now...
At least four dead Americans and five prisoners were filmed by Iraqi television, in footage relayed on Sunday by the Arabic network Al-Jazeera, which said they had been taken during a battle at the southern town of Souq al-Shuyukh. The prisoners were asked questions in what Washington said was a violation of the Geneva convention. Pictures of Iraqi prisoners have also been shown widely in the United States. Ahmed also said that the bodies of U.S. soldiers were lying on a battlefield near the Iraqi city of Nassiriya, apparently different from those whose corpses were shown on television. "A number of Americans were killed and their corpses are still abandoned in the area of Khomeiteh (near Nassiriya) in front of our forces," he said. I would tend to doubt that statement, but then I tend to doubt every statement these orifices make...
He also said that Iraq had destroyed 10 tanks and 20 armored personnel carriers in fighting across southern Iraq and shot down one unmanned spy plane. Ahmed denied that the U.S. and British forces had entered any city in Iraq and said there was fierce fighting near Najaf 100 miles south of Baghdad.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 06:15 pm ||
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Report from veteran BBC war correspondent John Simpson, the 'liberator of Kabul'.
A fierce battle has been raging along the frontline in northern Iraq between Iraqi troops and would-be Iraqi defectors. Watching the battle from a nearby hilltop, it looked as though the Iraqis were firing at the Kurdish troops and their American special forces advisors, whom we know to be close to the Iraqi positions. I could hear mortars and heavy machine guns, and there was even the red tracer of anti-aircraft guns which seemed to be being used as artillery pieces. Every now and then, brilliant white flares were fired into the air. When we went to a Kurdish forward post though, we discovered a very different story. The commander insisted that the Kurdish side and their American allies hadn't come under attack and hadn't fired a shot. Instead, he told us, a large group of Iraqi soldiers had tried to defect to the Kurdish side and had been spotted as they headed across to the Kurdish line. The loyal Iraqi soldiers opened fire and the battle which we saw resulted.
Posted by: A ||
03/23/2003 05:48 pm ||
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U.S. Marines defeated Iraqi forces near the southern city of An Nasiriyah in the sharpest engagement of the war so far, U.S. Central Command said Sunday. But in a separate engagement, Iraqi forces ambushed an army supply convoy and 12 soldiers were missing. I hope somebody's looking for them â and for their captors... Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks said about 10 Marines were killed in a faked surrender by Iraqi forces outside of An Nasiriyah. The Marines came under fire while preparing to accept what appeared to be surrendering Iraqis. Same thing happened in Gulf War I, at Khafji. It's a favored tactic...
"We of course will be much more cautious in the way we view the battlefield as a result of some of these incidents," said Army Lt. Gen. John Abizaid. But he stressed that coalition forces would continue to place high priority on avoiding civilian casualties. Then we'll continue to take higher casualties...
"It was a tough day of fighting for the coalition," Brooks said. Abizaid called the fighting there the "sharpest engagement of the war thus far." It'll get tougher as we get closer to Baghdad, unless they start hitting whoever's in front of us very hard and stop trying to coax them out...
"But the Marines were successful," Abizaid said. "They defeated the enemy. First reports indicated they destroyed eight tanks, some anti-aircraft batteries that were in the region, and also some artillery, along with a number of infantry." Iraqi military officials claimed earlier that 25 American soldiers were killed in the operation in An Nasiriyah, a major crossing point over the Euphrates River northwest of Basra. Abizaid, speaking at the Qatar headquarters of U.S. Central Command, said he thought fewer than 10 troops were killed in the fighting and that "a number" of troops were wounded. He said coalition forces encountered significant resistance in the city. I hope to hell they're cleaning it out...
FOLLOWUP:
In what a defense official called "the sharpest engagement of the war so far," U.S. Marines suffered heavy casualties in fighting Sunday around the key Euphrates river crossing an-Nasariyah. The United States suffered 50 casualties in the ten-hour gun battle over bridges in the area with Iraqi troops â including members of the highly-trained Sedaveen [sic â probably Saddam's Fedayeen] militia. U.S. soldiers east of the city came under artillery fire. At least eight Marines killed in action were seen being taken from the scene. There was fighting in the streets of the city, with some enemy troops shooting from rooftops and the back of pickup trucks. The Marines used tanks and armored vehicles, and called in A-10 "tank killer" aircraft. Iraqis fought to the death in combat that field commanders said was "heavier than expected."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 06:10 pm ||
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I'm getting seriously pissed off at Rumsfeld because of today's events.Ditching the Powell Doctrine will cause more needless Allied losses at the expense of protecting enemy soldiers.How the hell are you (I'm not even American,you know) going to fight future wars if the leadership cares more about the enemy than your own GIs?
Posted by: El Id ||
03/23/2003 16:18 Comments ||
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This is part of the aspect of mobile warfare. You do leave pockets of resistance in your wake, rather than eat up time reducing each and everyone of them. Because Bastogne was on the critical road junction, the Germans didn't have much of a choice in going around it in Dec. '44. The result was the offensive floundered upon the village and the 101st. If the Germans had a viable alternative, they would have taken it and simply masked the 101st's position. Time was critical. Appearently, it is considered the same here. So we will have fights in the 'rear' areas as the follow on forces 'clean up' the pockets. Unfortunately, those in the pockets can attempt to hamper the critical supply line with hit and run ops out of the pockets.
But, you may have a point. Is the administration afraid of another 'Highway of Death' on TV?
Posted by: Don ||
03/23/2003 17:06 Comments ||
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I'm with El Id. The purpose of war is to DESTROY THE ENEMY. Fighting with half-measures is a sure road to defeat. Another "Highway of Death" is exactly the kind thing we should be hoping for. The Iraqis are prepared to take heavy casualties. So why aren't we prepared to inflict them?
#4
Shock the enemy forces hard, then see if anybody sings a different tune, or flies a different flag. Dead buddies will change the tune quickly after a surround and a good pounding.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/23/2003 19:50 Comments ||
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It would be better to have these brainwashed Iraqi military dead anyway, or else they'll be a problem in a new Iraq.
#6
Encircled troops are part of a defeated army. Their only purpose if to kill. I would think that civilians would get as far away as possible from fortified sections of encircled "pockets." Is there any reason for tactical restraint?
British troops securing the outskirts of Basra have discovered missiles and warheads hidden inside fortified bunkers, reports say. Cases of rockets, giant anti-shipping mines and other ammunition were found in dozens of Iraqi bunkers near what is marked on maps as the Az Zubaya Heliport. Some of the boxes are clearly marked with the names of British manufacturers. It was not clear when the missiles were made. On one box, written in English, were the words: "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran."
One pile of boxes in a store housing rocket propelled grenades bears the name of Wallop Industries Limited, based in Middle Wallop in Hampshire, Chamberlain said. Two Russian-made Al-Harith anti-shipping Cruise missiles, each 20 feet long and three feet in diameter, and nine warheads, hidden in two enormous reinforced concrete bunkers, were also found. Another missile, as yet unidentified, was found still crated up at the rear of one of the bunkers.
The discovery of the missiles came as British troops from the Black Watch Regiment fought to secure the area around Iraqi's second city, Basra, ahead of a push to capture the city. Several units were involved in skirmishes with pockets of Iraqi troops and with civilians who have seized abandoned weaponry.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 03:05 pm ||
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FoxNews says that allied troops are in al-Kut, and that they've found chem weapons.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 02:10 pm ||
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are you SURE? are you friggin sure? that's a hugh deal.. not just the WMD... but the fact that we are in al-kut would be huge! check the damn thing.. are you sure?
#3
Latest Rooters snapshot says U.S. forces at at Najaf, engaging what they believe is the Medina RG division. Don't know where Fox is getting the info.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/23/2003 14:50 Comments ||
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Drudge linked to a story from the Jerusalem Post. None of the majors have picked it up yet. No confirmation?
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
03/23/2003 17:18 Comments ||
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This looks like a different story. No further details on it, though... See below for the Najaf weapons factory.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/23/2003 19:04 Comments ||
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Sharpest day of fighting so far. Those captured were surrounded by a combination of regular forces and fedayeen.
A number of incidents today in which Iraqi forces pretended to surrender, then opened fire. One incident involved a white flag, with artillery opening up when the allied forces moved near. Another incident involved Iraqis in civilian clothes opening fire.
Still looking for WMDs, following up on prisoner leads, but so far none.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 02:07 pm ||
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At least some of the Iraqis are putting up some stiff resistance. Probably, any information they are getting from their HQ is of the "Americans are being killed all over the place, you should get yours" type.
via the Jerusalem Post - registration req'd
Caroline Glick Mar. 23, 2003
About 30 Iraqi troops, including a general, surrendered today to US forces of the 3rd Infantry Division as they overtook huge installation apparently used to produce chemical weapons in An Najaf, some 250 kilometers south of Baghdad. Hans didn't visit this one, hmmm?
One soldier was lightly wounded when a booby-trapped explosive went off as he was clearing the sheet metal-lined facility, which resembles the eery images of scientific facilities in World War II concentration camps. The huge 100-acre complex, which is surrounded by a electrical fence, is perhaps the first illegal chemical plant to be uncovered by US troops in their current mission in Iraq. The surrounding barracks resemble an abandoned slum. How did they miss a 100 acre facility? Eh, Clouseau?
It wasn't immediately clear exactly which chemicals were being produced here, but clearly the Iraqis tried to camouflage the facility so it could not be photographed aerially, by swathing it in sand-cast walls to make it look like the surrounding desert. Within minutes of our entry into the camp on Sunday afternoon, at least 30 Iraqi soldiers and their commanding officer of the rank of General, obeyed the instructions of US soldiers who called out from our jeep in loudspeakers for them to lie down on the ground, and put their hands above their heads to surrender. A General? That's the best clue that it might have significant value
Today's operation is the third engagement with Iraqi forces by the First Brigade of the US army's 3rd Infantry Division, since Saturday afternoon. So far in the campaign, the brigade has suffered no losses. But two were wounded Saturday night in an ambush on the outskirts of As-Samwah in southern Iraq.
Followup:
FoxNews has picked up the story, so there's probably some confirmation. All that's on their Top Stories page so far is "Fox: 'Huge' Chemical Weapons Plant Discovererd in Southern Iraq"
Guess they were typing it while I was looking for it...
A senior pentagon official has confirmed to Fox News on Sunday that coalition forces have discovered a "huge" chemical weapons factory near the Iraqi city of An Najaf, which is situated some 225 miles south of Baghdad. Coalition troops are also said to be holding the general in charge of the facility. Brett Baer is reading the story now. Their source was the J-Post story, and they say they've got Pentagon confirmation...
And SkyNews has it now, apparently from Fox...
A huge chemical weapons factory has been found in Iraq, according to Pentagon sources. The facility was found by advancing US troops in An Najaf, around 100 miles south of Baghdad, the sources say. The general in charge of the factory was arrested by the 1st Brigade of the Third Infantry division and is being questioned, the sources said. An unconfirmed report by Fox news said the complex is around 100-acres, adjacent to military barracks and surrounded by an electric fence.
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 07:28 pm ||
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It's amazing to watch all these "news" organizations trying to warp and twist what's going on. Al Najaf is only 150Km (94 miles) from Baghdad, not 250km. Lots of other such "mistakes". The biggest boner in the news lately, however, was a Lycos post that passengers from a hijacked Cuban "jet" were returning to Cuba. I've heard a DC-3 called a lot of things, but never a "jet". Where do they get these people?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 13:40 Comments ||
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Happy now Blix? You can go to your grave knowing that you could have prevented war - but instead you caused it. Someone show him the video of the captured soldiers..just so he can fully understand the magnitude of his ineptitude.
#6
quote 'A General? That's the best clue that it might have significant value '
hehhe a general with 30 troops under his command . makes me think he was a grunt until 5 minutes b4 the place was captured .
#9
Fox says they've confirmed with the US that it found a chemical complex in An Najaf. No word on whether it was active. The Iraqi PR machine is still functioning so I hope we verify it was active before making a big deal about it.
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 19:08 Comments ||
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Sky's got it too (they coop with FoxNews), but not clear what the plant is for and whether it is active. If so, we should force Blixie to take the first hit off of whatever's in the reactor vessels.
#13
This just in--apparently it's not a chemical weapons facility, but a baby milk factory...
(If not immediately obvious, that's sarcasm!)
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 19:50 Comments ||
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Don't everyone jump on Blixie at once. After all, he would have found it after 2 months..maybe 4, or 6, certainly after 1 year, and if not, after 12 years. If still he couldn't find it, then he could pass the torch on to his offspring and they would be able to find the evidence. Then there's always the grandchildren, and also........
#15
The BBC and ABC have both confirmed the report. Can we pool some money to pay fare for Hans Blix , take him there and show the quality of INSPECTIONS!!!
#16
A reported 56 inspectors visited eight sites on 8 January. International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) teams continued their focus on Iraqi cement factories, according to the Iraqi Foreign Ministry. A team of two IAEA inspectors toured the Al-Samawa Cement Factory in Al-Muthanna Province, 350 kilometers south of Baghdad; another group of inspectors (no number given) toured the Al-Kufa Cement Factory in Al-Najaf, 240 kilometers south of Baghdad. A third team of three inspectors toured the Karbala Cement Factory in Karbala, approximately 250 kilometers southwest of Baghdad. The ministry noted that the purpose of visiting the factories was to check the amounts of HMX explosives at these mining sites. The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) did not provide further details on this inspection.
From here. Don't know if it's the same plant.
Slightly Edited for brevity
After the bitter diplomatic battle in the United Nations over whether to go to war in Iraq, another could be shaping up. This time, however, it could split the closest allies: Britain and the US. The issue: what to do afterwards.
US plans for Iraqi reconstruction suggest a minimal role for the UN. Britain, siding this time with its partners in the European Union, sees UN administration as essential to the postwar plans. "We believe that the UN must continue to play a central role during and after the current crisis. The UN system has a unique capacity and practical experience in co-ordinating assistance in post-conflict states," EU leaders said on Thursday night. Unique capacity for graft and sex for food programs.
Thomas Carothers, who follows the issue closely at the Carnegie Endowment think-tank in Washington, says the current US plan calls for something quite distinct: "This will be a different kind of occupation [from what] we have been used to seeing. It will be a military occupation rather than an international administration." hmmm, I thought we were going to set up an Iraqi Interim Authority? hmm...I guess the question is when will that occur.
Leaving out the UN would be a big problem for Britain, at least according to Clare Short, Britain's minister of international development. "It is no secret that in this [US] administration, affection for the UN is limited and there have been speeches about US military governors à la Japan. But for the UK, this is international law. Hasn't she stepped down yet? What does Tony have to say? "Without a UN mandate, any belligerents would be an occupying army and have absolutely no right in international law to change any of the institutional arrangements of the country toldya so. But if the Kurd is right about the Iraqi Interim Authority, maybe we've already blocked that move.
Very firm commitments have been given to our parliament. Very firm agreements have been made between President Bush and our prime minister," she said in an interview. Could you be more specific?
Bush being very specific said, "we will work closely with the international community, including the United Nations and our coalition partners." He said UN Security Council resolutions would be sought "to encourage broad participation in the process of helping the Iraqi people to build a free Iraq". In other words, we have NO intention of allowing the UN to take charge.
Not for the first time, a mixed message on policy is emerging from Washington oh, like that never happens from Britian, France, Russia or Turkey
One reason for this is that, despite statements from officials suggesting decisions have been made, there is much still to be decided. So far, the Pentagon plans a military administration in the immediate aftermath of the war. That would be headed by General Tommy Franks, head of central command, or a deputy, the Arabic-speaking Lt Gen John Abizaid. While the military commander would handle security, a central administration responsible for civil affairs would be created under Jay Garner, a retired general. Existing Iraqi ministries would report to Gen Garner. A team of US "advisers", many of them retired officials from the state and defence departments and the Central Intelligence Agency, would be flown in. They would operate within ministries, among other things vetting those staff seen as corrupt or as having close ties to the regime of Mr Hussein.
I don't see the UN in that org chart...
One former diplomat, who declined to join the adviser team, says he does not understand "how in the world this system could possibly work". The former diplomat says many officials allocated to the programme have never worked in Iraq and neither speak nor read Arabic on a professional level. Since the work of the ministries would be conducted entirely in Arabic, the Americans would be dependent on Iraqis for all their information. seems a valid point
The US would pay the salaries of about 2m civil servants, including teachers and health workers, a senior defence department official says. The US would also pay a "good portion" of Iraq's regular army — not the Republican Guard loyal to Mr Hussein — for reconstruction work ordered by US-run committees. Another senior official says the US is considering using the regular army as a constabulary force. To pay these salaries, and meet other costs, the US is likely to use Iraqi assets that have been frozen in the US: the Treasury this week seized more than $1.4bn frozen since 1991 in US banks. An estimated $600m is estimated to be in Britain and 10 other countries. After that, the US is likely to want access to oil revenues - which until this week have been mis managed by the UN under its oil-for-food programme. While the overall US military authority will remain in place until the main security issues, including weapons of mass destruction, have been handled to Washington's satisfaction, Gen Garner has said he wants to be in Baghdad no longer than three months. The main open question is to whom Gen Garner would hand over power. An early idea was that he would hand over to an administration headed by a respected senior American. The favoured approach now seems to be that the handover will be to an interim Iraqi administration. (The acronym IIA is already being used in Washington.) The IIA would probably be headed by a trusted Iraqi figurehead. Its members would probably be taken from an Iraqi "consultative council" formed from a 65-strong opposition committee established in London and 200 to 300 important figures from inside Iraq. The authority might conduct elections for a constituent authority to decide a new constitution, likely to create a federal structure for the country.
A big dispute is raging behind the scenes in Washington over who should head the IIA. Many hawks in the administration think the job should go to Ahmad Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress. Many Iraqis — together with US officials
(apparently these are non-hawks?)
in the state department (ah...those non-hawks)
and elsewhere - are resisting the Chalabi solution. A member of the Kurdish opposition says: "For the US to bring in an outside figure and say this is our [equivalent of Afghan leader Hamad] Karzai is not going to work. I hope the US resists the temptation of such a surgical solution. This is not about king-making. Iraq needs a system of checks and balances." Wow, somebody should listen to this guy!
The administration has in recent weeks been looking elsewhere for a head of the IIA, including Adnan Pachachi, a former foreign minister. Marc Grossman, undersecretary of state for political affairs, said this week he hoped the new Iraqi authority would quickly recognise Israel. Good idea Marc, let's start with the most contentious issue first. Second we'll tackle equal rights for women. Only then should we move on to issues we might more readily agree on. Good thinking. Barham Saleh, prime minister of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, says he thinks a new Iraqi government would tear up oil contracts signed with the French and Russians "and reward those countries who helped in our liberation, not those who stood in the way". heh, heh, bet that's got ol' Igor's attention
However, UK officials still see a role here for the UN, either leading an administration or, at the least, managing some important humanitarian and reconstruction roles. Certainly, if notice the use of the word if here! the US expects other countries to finance elements of the reconstruction, they are likely to demand a say in how it is done. Ah...but what if the IIA will be looking for private bids instead....
Mr Carothers says leaving people out of the political process with some kind of power - either money or guns - could sabotage the process. Ultimately, the US military, in its eagerness to leave the country, may not much care in the end to whom it hands over power, he says. "Is the US intention really to create a democratic government or would the US military be satisfied with a government that's not democratic but that's capable of keeping order that could be close to remnants of the Iraqi regime?" I think GW has made it very clear what his intent is, and so far, he's been a man of his word.
Posted by: Becky ||
03/23/2003 11:58 am ||
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Things will be unsettled for the first 90-120 days following the collapse of the Iraqi military. In the meantime, military troops will be patrolling the country, digging up minefields, doing hasty repairs, mopping up small groups that might continue to hold out, rounding up criminals and looters, and generally tidying up the country following all that scrap metal being tossed around. There's no way an "interim government" could function until that's done. Anyone thinking otherwise can't see the sunshine.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 13:44 Comments ||
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"We'd like to replace the 'Oil for Food' program with a new program we call 'Oil for Weasel'."
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 11:17 Comments ||
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"Diesel for Weasel"? Lets call em the Diesel Weasels, those that opposed military action in Iraq on the basis of economic ties to Saddam and his satanic regime...
#5
Look how successful the UN has been getting the Palestinians back on their feet. Like about FORTY years! The UN will simply want to create a permanent food for oil program, and continue to divert "humanitarian" aid to paleo bombers.
Posted by: john ||
03/23/2003 19:02 Comments ||
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CNN's reporting that some Americans were captured at Nasiriya, and were executed. They said video of the dead was shown on Nasiriya TV. No details yet.
FOLLOWUP:
Iraqi television showed film on Sunday of at least four bodies, said to be U.S. soldiers, and five prisoners who said they were American. Two of the prisoners, including a woman, appeared to be wounded. One was lying on the floor on a rug. They were the first U.S. prisoners known to have been taken by Iraq. The prisoners were questioned on air and gave their names, military identification numbers and home towns. The bodies and prisoners were shown on Iraqi television, relayed by Al-Jazeera.
From Drudge...
ACCORDING TO A SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL, THERE ARE 11 SOLDIERS MISSING AND THEY ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN CAPTURED BY THE IRAQIS. THESE WERE MAINTENANCE SOLDIERS, ABC NEWS REPORTED. THEY WERE OUT IN FRONT ON THEIR WAY TO REPAIR SOMETHING AND ACCORDING TO THE SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL, THEY TOOK A WRONG TURN. AGAIN, THEY BELIEVE THESE SOLDIERS WERE CAPTURED BY THE IRAQIS, 11 SOLDIERS.
More followup:
On CBS's "Face the Nation," Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said that if those are indeed coalition soldiers being shown on the Al-Jazeera TV footage, "those pictures are a violation of the Geneva Convention." Pardon me, sir, but screw the Geneva Convention at this point. Take Nasiriya and kill everyone associated with this act.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 10:24 am ||
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It simply doesn't make sense that having "executed" prisoners, the Iraqi's would then show them on TV. Bad move for so many reasons. The Iraqi's are very PR conscious, and showing bodies on TV for PR makes sense. However, showing executed prisoners does not. The Iraqi's don't have many qualms about killing their own political prisoners, but it was done to intimidate the populace. What is the purpose of killing America prisoners when they would have more value as hostages?
Since it is impossible (at this point) to determine if they were killed before or after capture, and under what circumstances, I'd wait for more concrete evidence before drawing any conclusions thanks.
#2
Having just viewed this sickening footage over over the Greek satellite channel, ERT, it's simply documented barbarity. It includes closeups of each of the dead soldiers and a smiling Iraqi (whose mug is now on record) jabbing one of the dead soldiers and manipulating the body so that the camera can get a closeup of the the face. The Iraqi TV interviewer (speaking very broken English) remains off camera. The five POWs give only minimal information as they were trained to do. Two of the POWs appear to be wounded but are bandaged. One was in obvious pain, but was forced to sit up and be interrogated. I am disgusted by cynical broadcasters who stoop to the level of Iraqi TV. (Yes, why is it still on air?) There would appear to be very little difference between European stations and al Jazeera in using this crude Iraqi propaganda.
#3
BBC had a still showing one of the PoWs faces from Iraqi TV as the main image on its website. I sent an email complaint (as I expect many others did) and 5 mins later it was gone. I pointed out they wouldn't have shown such a picture had it been one of our boys rather than a US ally.
I apologise for refering to a "great opportunity" before, BTW - there's nothing "great" about this, but it is an opportunity.
#4
I'm listening to the CENTCOM briefing, and the briefing general pointed out that the little incident at the Tigris, where they shot into the water, meant that "their search and rescue efforts leave much to be desired". That might not be the propaganda coup they expect.
This might mean that Saddam and sons are, if still breathing, out of the loop.
(Listening to these briefings makes me see red. "Won't you admit, general, that in as much as you are making very slow progress in this illegal war, and are being fiercely resisted by both army units and the general populace, that you are in a Vietnam-style quagmire and should withdraw immediately?")
#5
The purpose of showing this on Tv is to get the American public against the war.
Judging by the tactics used that are slowly becoming apparent, Baghdad decided to turn this into a guerilla war, and hoping for another Vietnam.
We need to get to Baghdad fast.
#6
I don't think allied soldiers could get to Baghdad any quicker than they're going now. I do believe it's time to commit the 101st, and start bringing in a few more soldiers from the States. I'd recommend about six divisions (if we still had them - unfortunately, with Clinton's cuts of the military, we're pretty well undermanned right now) equipped with MLRS and very high explosive warheads. Then we should do like the Russians at the seige of Berlin: build a ring of steel around the place, and just begin pounding. After a month or two, take a break and see if there's anything left.
If the Iraqis want a first-hand taste of a rolling Arc-Light barrage, I for one will gladly chip in an extra $20 to help defray the cost.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 14:54 Comments ||
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#7
It's time to stop talking to these bastards about surrendering. Kill enough of them, and the rest will hang it up. This is what happens when you fight a kid gloves war.
Agreed.
Force is the only thing that awkward, tribal, brutal cultures such as that in Arabia understand.
Bad move for so many reasons. The Iraqi's are very PR conscious, and showing bodies on TV for PR makes sense. However, showing executed prisoners does not. The Iraqi's don't have many qualms about killing their own political prisoners, but it was done to intimidate the populace. What is the purpose of killing America prisoners when they would have more value as hostages?
#8
Personally I think we should forget all this "liberation" bullshit and start acting like bad-asses. Nuke all of Iraq and then dare anyone else to fuck with us. (But that's just me.)
#9
It's time to stop talking to these bastards about surrendering. Kill enough of them, and the rest will hang it up. This is what happens when you fight a kid gloves war.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/23/2003 10:20 Comments ||
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#10
ack - shows what regime is in iraq . pity we couldnt send the french troops into these areas dishing out the whitehouse's 'freedom fries '
friggin towel-heads need to go get a life instead of takin them . then read the geneva convention.
hope the people who commited this despicable act get all the might of hell unleashed on their pitiful souls before the chicken shits decide to surrender and 'play pathetic PoW tricks '
#11
Major Garrett on Fox said that the dead showed evidence of having been executed - shot in the head.
Nasiriya should taste the MOAB - less filling tastes great - drink deeply assholes
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 10:26 Comments ||
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#12
Fox News reporting on this now. They have Al Jazeera footage, but say they will not show it. Anchor's voices shake while they report this (I'm listening on headphones from the other room, so I can't see them). They're describing it as "gruesome", "revolting", "sickening". Rumsfeld is complaining that this is a violation of the GC.
#14
Truly sickening and further proof of what amoral and inhumane beasts make up Saddam's regime. This is only a small taste of what the poor Iraqi people have had to suffer through for 30+ years.
Please pray for the POWs that were still alive in the film. Hopefully they'll make it through this and be able to identify the perps in the subsequent war crime trials.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 10:44 Comments ||
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#15
The execution of POWs should sicken any rationale person. However, I'm pretty sure that this footage will be cheered at the faculty lounge in Berkeley, at the presidential palace in Paris and a few other places.
#16
One thing I wonder is why the hell is Iraqi TV still on the air? They should blow every TV studio and transmission facility in the country. Then put OUR broadcasts on the air by way of those C130 psy-ops aircraft.
Its pretty simple. They need to be shown harsh consequences on their own TV. That means any Iraqi forces that are taken under fire should be surrounded and obliterated by artillery and bombing. The results (dead and dismembered Iraqi bodies in uniform - artillery does nasty things) should be shown on TV with the tag "This unit refused to surrender". Repeat this with every unit we cut off that refuses to surrender completely. Pretty soon even the RG's will get the message.
#17
If, in fact, American POWs have been summarily executed, then under the Geneva Convention we are completely justified in responding in kind. I would guess that very few Iraqi EPWs will be taken over the next 24 hours.
Posted by: Andrew Olmsted ||
03/23/2003 11:20 Comments ||
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#18
I've just seen the footage (6 pm France); gruesome; the remaining POWs look terrified. TV talking heads are commenting on the quagmire US troops have gotten themselves in, how the USA lost the propaganda battle, how the offensive has already stalled, how Saddam will pull an Osama vanishing-trick anyway... This is disguting. I'm fed up with this country. My heart goes to the POWs. And yes, time to get the kid gloves off.
#19
Musn't let emotions take us where they want us to go - commiting atrocities in response to atrocities, with the huge media coverage that would attract. I know its hard to remain rational when confronted with images and accounts as disgusting as these, but the US and Britain are not fighting here according to Saddam's rules. OK, give no quarter in Nasiriyah, and hunt down and kill those responsible for this, but to cut down Iraqis who had no hand in this would not be constructive. Now is a great opportunity to show the world there's no doubt who is the morally superior side here.
#20
i used to know this, in high school, but: at what temperature does sand melt?
Posted by: matt ||
03/23/2003 11:34 Comments ||
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#21
Bulldog is correct - we need not sink to their level - treat the EPW's correctly and those that don't surrender - no mercy, no quarter. War crimes trials and executions (bitch about that at your own expense EU!) of these bastards
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 11:57 Comments ||
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#22
Bulldog is right. This is going to happen with the type of enemy we are facing and those responsible will pay dearly for their dastardly deeds. But we must stay the course and the plan and topple the regime. This will require alot of discipline on our side. We must hit hard and decisive, no holds barred, that's for sure. But collectively we cannot go nuts like the Ba'ath Boys, or we become them.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/23/2003 12:12 Comments ||
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#23
Drudge has one of the corpse pictures up, if you're curious. I won't run it.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/23/2003 15:29 Comments ||
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#24
Stay cool, guys. Bulldog is right. It's not time to nuke anybody. Let's try to turn this to advantage without killing more innocents. We were having enough trouble with world opinion before this. Now the Iraqi's can have some problems with world opinion.
Posted by: Tom ||
03/23/2003 15:47 Comments ||
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#25
There is more information here http://www.hk94.com/weblog on the executed US soldiers.
#26
The Arabia is sick. All the soldiers had their pants pulled down or flies unzipped. My guess is that these sick bastards checked to see is the soldiers where circumcised and torrored/executed them if they were.
#28
After the Malmedy massacre [Dec. '44, Battle of the Bulge] became known, it became very very difficult for soldiers of the SS to surrender. No matter what DisneyWorld belief of the world is, when it comes down to reality, it is up to the individual gunney who decides whether he'll take your surrender or not. After the events in that Belgium field, gunneys weren't in a warm and friendly mood. Franks better have an effective plan in the works for the post-war military tribunals this calls for. As UBL's boys are finding out, we don't forget [well at least as long as we have real leadership].
Posted by: Don ||
03/23/2003 16:54 Comments ||
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#29
The people in Baghdad may be sensitive to the PR of a thing like this, but I doubt these scum were acting on specific orders from there. Just spur of the moment butchery. As someone else here said - this is why we have to take them out.
#30
Remember Somalia. Once the American public saw the pictures of our boys being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu, public opinion shifted dramatically against our being over there. This war is a totally different situation, but I'm guessing the Iraqis are hoping these pictures will have a similar effect.
Posted by: charlotte ||
03/23/2003 18:27 Comments ||
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#31
We need to take a deep breathe, stop, and give moments of silence for each lost and captured soul, and move on. We knew going in that we are dealing with a ruthless and amoral regime that has no consideration for any human values, and these brave folks are there to destroy that evil.
We need to keep in mind that no matter how repugnant the visuals, they are also a warning from the regime to their own people as to what will happen if they are captured or surrender; we know it is false but Iraqis have only known 30 years of Saddam's terror. This is how they operate.
May the bastards who do this rot in hell!
Posted by: john ||
03/23/2003 19:46 Comments ||
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#32
Hopefully not true, but this article states that a Patriot battery left to defend the crossing at Nassiriyah was destroyed and the crew of 16 is missing. I did not even realize we were moving the patriot batteries so far north.
#34
Just wait to the chemicals hit the air.How do you think the public is going to handle that?
Seems the majority of our soldiers are pershing in accidents,wrong turns,fake surrenders,one friggen demented U.S. soilder and those damn copters.Seems the safest place to be is in the bush.Keep up the good work and may Saddam burn in hell.
A Lebanese satellite channel, LBC TV reports from Baghdad that an American pilot was captured in Baghdad, Sunday. The station showed images of dozens of Iraqis rushing to a bridge overlooking the Tigris river to capture a pilot whose plane was shot down. The bridge is close to the neighborhood of Sanaka leading to the information ministry. LBC is saying a U.S. pilot was captured. I was watching this on FoxNews this morning. They were shooting at the water — typical fire-from-the-hip stuff, which is why they so seldom hit anything. Then they set fire to some reeds. I didn't see anyone captured...
The event took place at the time Baghdad was being bombarded and the bridge was crowded with cars and people. Big clouds of black smoke was also seen billowing over Baghdad. Al Jazeera quoted witnesses as saying two western pilots were seen coming down in parachutes over Baghdad, and military men were seen searching for them in boats on the river. Soldiers with machineguns are screening the shores of the river. Hundreds of civilians and military men were involved in the search.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:39 am ||
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"An official at the Command Centre in Qatar says that what the Iraqis saw were probably air-launched anti-radar missiles, which can loiter above their targets by deploying parachutes.
The missiles delay their fall to ground when defenders switch off their radar facilities and resume their fall once these facilities are turned back on [sic?]. The initial reports led to a great deal of activity along the river bank as crowds watched the search. Their efforts to find any coalition pilots were broadcast by al-Jazeera TV."
NB Al Jazeera's a spin-off of the BBC. Originally it was in in-house Arab News channel but was axed during a budget cut, and, I think, after pressure from certain arab governments. In gratitude, it now doesn't even offer an English-language website.
#2
The film of these idiots almost burning themselves up trying to ignite the brush is well worth the price of admission....reminds me of that Paki ahole burning himself while lighting up a U.S. flag. The eye-rolling and spittle must disconnect their self-preservation cortex impulses LOL
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 9:44 Comments ||
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#3
Looked like the first semi-annual Tigris Fish Shoot to me. What a bunch of clowns! Pure propaganda at its amateurish best.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 10:46 Comments ||
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#4
One grudgingly has to hand it to them as a propaganda effort. We ought to drop a dummy plane in the area with a mannequin pilot with parachute. Let them send in the troops, get it rolling on TV, then boom-wha.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/23/2003 12:18 Comments ||
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#5
I would love to get my hands on that guy in the Iraqi footage (without the helmet) with the AK firing into the reeds. Hook his arms up to 2 M1A1s via chains, and slowly pull him apart. Slowly.
In Baghdad, reporters witnessed the first appearance since the start of hostilities of an Iraqi leader many had assumed was a victim of Wednesday's leadership compound bombing, Iraqi Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan. Ramadan, second in command to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, said Iraq had captured a number of American air crews and destroyed some U.S. tanks, with the evidence, he said, soon to be shown on television. Arab television monitored by United Press International in London showed armed Iraqis searching the Tigris River along the banks and in boats. The reports said parachutes had been seen in the area. There was no confirmation from coalition officers that a plane was missing, although air-raid warnings were sounding in Baghdad and plumes of smoke showed that daylight raids were being launched. As of a Sunday afternoon briefing in Kuwait, coalition for flown more than 6,000 sorties, with planes coming from bases in 30 countries. The Pentagon says all aircraft are accounted for...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:34 am ||
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#1
Yeah, but Al-Jazeera will eat it up, and that's the audience they're playing to most right now...
#2
Remember all those US and British uniforms Sadsack bought? I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of hapless Iraqis grabbed from the street, dressed as US GIs and shot in front of God and everybody. I think, that if Iraq DOES do this, it will be the biggest blunder they've made in the entire war. You'll see US troops fighting harder, meaner, and less willing to accept surrender, than previously. Hussein will only make matters worse for him vis a vis the US, but will also destroy whatever "good will" he has among non-aligned nations.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 11:53 Comments ||
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Jordan expelled five Iraqi diplomats on Sunday on security grounds in the first such move by an Arab country following a recent request from the United States. State news agency Petra said the diplomats were asked to leave for security reasons after they undertook activities "incompatible to their status of diplomats." Oi! Trying to raise a little ruckus, were they?
"The diplomats were asked to leave by the Jordanian foreign ministry within 24 hours," Iraqi embassy spokesman Jawad al-Ali told Reuters. "They left this morning for Baghdad." Eagerly, we're sure...
The diplomats asked to leave were the commercial attache, the cultural attache and three staff from the consular section.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:21 am ||
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Anybody laying a guess on how far these chaps will get on their Baghdad junket? We may want to talk with them for a spell.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/23/2003 12:22 Comments ||
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#2
Lucky they have enough for the car pool lane.Otherwise they would be behind one hell of a traffic jam to Bagdad.
An Iraqi Kurdish group running part of northern Iraq said U.S. forces had launched a second day of missile strikes there on Sunday against an Islamist group accused by Washington of links to al Qaeda. An official of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) said U.S. missiles had struck suspected Ansar al-Islam positions near the Iranian border, one day after Washington fired missiles and launched air raids on Ansar's mountainous stronghold. "There were more strikes overnight, again with cruise missiles," said the official of the PUK.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:17 am ||
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The Northern Front will open soon. 200 US troops just arrived.
Arab foreign ministers will seek ways to end a U.S.-led war on Iraq at a meeting in Cairo on Monday, which diplomats said would try to bridge Arab divisions and forge a unified anti-war position. The meeting at the Arab League headquarters will also try to convince restive Arab populations their governments are doing their best to stop the four-day old war, which has provoked sometimes violent demonstrations across the Arab world, diplomats said. "The Arab foreign ministers want to see what steps can be taken to stop the war," Arab League spokesman Hesham Youssef said, adding the ministers would discuss a diplomatic initiative to try to stop the conflict through the United Nations. If anything comes out of it, it'll be the first time anything's ever come out of the Arab League since they started the '67 war... Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri, due to attend the meeting, said on Saturday his country wanted Arab states to take a "true Arab stand" against the war which he said would mirror sentiment on the Arab street. "So you guys get out there and make faces, dammit!"
In Damascus on Sunday he said reports that Iraqi leaders had been killed during the war were "fables."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:13 am ||
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Very easy way to end this war - just convince Sadsack to surrender. Other than that, it's going to be a long, hard road for any Arab nation. Anyone doing more than talking will find that the United States can attack on more than one front at a time. If need be, they can even call me back up.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 14:03 Comments ||
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U.S. Marines battled for control of the southern Iraqi city of Nassiriya on Sunday, taking "significant" casualties in a fight to open a route north to Baghdad. Reuters Correspondent Sean Maguire, traveling with the Marines First Regiment south of the city, said he could see explosions and huge plumes of smoke over Nassiriya. "It looks like artillery, or possibly air strikes," Maguire said. "There's lots of smoke rising." Maguire quoted military officials as saying the Marine battalion spearheading the fight had suffered significant casualties in the battle, but said they did not give details. FoxNews said they were wounded, and had been medevac'd...
The firefight at Nassariya blocked an advance by U.S. forces, who had earlier reported securing two key bridgeheads to enable them to cross the Euphrates and strike northwards toward the Iraqi capital. Maguire said military officials believed that the bridgeheads were now secure but that the area in between was not. Maguire said there was heavy U.S. helicopter traffic over the area, and that hundreds of U.S. military trucks and armored personnel carriers had stopped their advance. That would account for the "artillery or possibly air strikes," wouldn't it?
U.S. officers also said that the 11th Division of the Iraqi army had "capitulated." That report could not be confirmed, and no details on the alleged surrender were available. Thought they threw in the towel day before yesterday? Or was that just their commander?
Iraqi officials on Saturday denied U.S. statements that the commander of the 51st Division had surrendered and a U.S. commander said his forces had fought and defeated elements of the 51st around the southern city of Basra. Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf told a news conference in Baghdad that foreign invaders headed to Nassiriya had been "taught a lesson they will never forget." Yeah: concentrate on killing the bad guys, instead of trying to talk 'em out. Once you kill enough, the rest will come out...
"We have placed them in a quagmire from which they can never emerge except dead," he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:10 am ||
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i heard the commander who surrendered may actually have been a brigade commander, not the divisional commander.
A British Air Force Tornado jet was shot down by a U.S. Patriot missile on Sunday in the first reported incident of "friendly" fire since the Iraq war was launched four days ago, British officials said. "We can confirm that a Tornado GR4 aircraft from RAF Marham returning from an operational mission was engaged near the Kuwaiti border by a Patriot missile battery. The crew are listed as missing," he told reporters at Central Command headquarters in Qatar. An investigation was under way, he added. The Tornado GR4 is a two-seat supersonic attack plane. I try not to use bad language here, but... SHIT!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 09:02 am ||
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I, too, feel for the British. However, I'm beginning to see a pattern emerging already - the British, while well-equipped and trained by European standards, aren't quite up to the capabilities of the United States. Give them credit - they keep up, they do their job, and they never, ever quit. But they seem to make a horrendous number of plain MISTAKES, probably from insufficient training, and especially insufficient training in a multinational environment.
The pilots are still dead.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 12:31 Comments ||
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#2
thanks Dar Steckelberg . welcome to spend them $$$ on me . I like lager and fast cheap women along with a regime change mixer :)
#3
Old Patriot, I don't think its wise to start criticising the capabillity of allies before the full facts concerning a few fatal accidents are known. British pilots definitely do not suffer from inadequate training, and to compare the British armed forces, in terms of professionalism, to the rest of Europe, is meaningless.
#4
Old Patriot, I don't know how you say such things so lightly. We know next to nothing about this incident. The IFF mechanism may have malfunctioned, or an ATC may have routed the plane into the wrong corridor, or some other reason--blaming the pilots, their training, or any other human element at this point is presumptuous. Don't forget there are human elements besides the UK pilots: American Patriot crews, radar operators, and ATCs, among many other possibilities.
Additionally, let me point out that the biggest single cause of British casualties so far--the CH-46 crash--involved American aviators and American equipment maintained by American crews, so I would think pointing fingers is unwise in any case. Those brave British Marines were merely passengers.
I'm very grateful to the Brits for their support, their contributions, and their sacrifice. This is a trying time in our nation's history, but such times reveal who our true friends are.
Biggus--I'll be happy to buy you a pint, and you can introduce me to the fast, cheap women!
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 14:39 Comments ||
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#5
I spent 13 years of my Air Force career working in Europe. What I say, I don't say lightly. I enjoyed my time in England more than anywhere else, but I don't let that blind me. The British military budget, the arrogance of their government "leadership", and the constraints under which British military personnel must train pose some serious problems for those personnel. I've worked 36 hours at a stretch during an exercise - very, very few of the British, and NONE of any other NATO nation except the Turks, train like that. Tired people, people under excess stress, and people who have limited trained in a wartime environment, make mistakes. Mistakes in wartime can be fatal, as we've seen. The Brits aren't alone - somebody goofed with a wrong turn, failed to see a marker, and ended up driving 11 people into Iraqi hands. The greater the stress, the more likely mistakes will be made. That's not implying that the Brits, or our own personnel, are to blame, that they're inadequate, or anything else. It's just a fact of (military) life.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/23/2003 15:16 Comments ||
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#6
according to Fox they didn't have their IFF on or set correctly
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/23/2003 10:04 Comments ||
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#7
I really feel for the British. They've been our staunchest ally throughout, and they are suffering casualties way out of proportion to their presence.
I decided this last night: I'm pledging to visit the UK in the next year and spread some tourist dollars there to show my appreciation for their true friendship and sacrifice.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 10:53 Comments ||
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#8
Old Patriot, you're better qualified than I am to register an opinion on training differences. Thank you for your service!
What evidence are you seeing of this pattern you mention? The helicopter collision at sea is the only incident I'm aware of at this point that was truly a British-only mishap (I understand the sole American involved was a passenger or observer).
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/23/2003 15:35 Comments ||
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#9
Not a surpise! I appreciate that war will cause errors in such a logistical nightmare, but it seems the only casualties the British get is by American fuck ups!
#10
Just read Dar's post from this morning and coincidently had decided the same thing with my Mrs last night. We are saving money to see the World Cup 2006 with our 3 kids but now, rather than give that money to the treacherous Hun, we'll be in the UK. I'd rather watch it on TV in a proper Brit pub and my wife wants to see Scotland.
#12
Bulldog, comments from a few claiming how much bigger and better we are should be ignored as bluster. Americans are grateful and consider the British to second to none! Don't allow a few stray comments to overshadow the respect Americans feel toward your soldiers and sailors.
#14
I'm a fast, cheap woman and I'm coming to visit the Old Dart again and the USA too, in the next few years. Hoorah!
Today I gave some flowers to the US consulate, tomorrow to the UK consulate. The Brits are quality, quality fighters, and I hope they don't lose any more of these precious souls.
#3
If this is true then I guess all the stories of Saddam's demise are wrong wrong wrong
Posted by: g wiz ||
03/23/2003 8:34 Comments ||
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#4
Here's the big question....If Sadaam is "exiled" rather than "deposed", does that create some sort of technicality that Sadaam (or the UN) can name the successors to his regime?
Considering that France, Russia, etc. have made clear they are going to hang their hats on the "illegal war" word game (discussed yesterday), once the war is over the "so-called" question of who will establish the the new Iraqi govn't , will - according to the French - certainly not belong to illegal US occupation army. France will say, the UN gets to do it, of course, to assure UN protection of their prior contracts and backroom deals .
Other rantburg article today makes it appear that US is going to block this move. If they allow the war to be "won" by the Iraqi opposition, and there is no US [illegal] Military Intervention phase, the Iraqi people, through the Interim Authority, will get to make those decisions for themselves, NOT the UN. BWAHAAAAAHAAAHAA! Trumped again Igor!
#5
oopa..I said, "and there is no US [illegal] Military Intervention phase" what I meant was US Military Interim Govn't phase ...(or whatever it's supposed to be called). sigh.
The United States will soon be hunting down and interrogating hundreds of Iraqi scientists, technicians and others who were involved in Iraq's clandestine weapons programs, hoping they will help in the search for chemical, biological or nuclear materials. The general running the war in Iraq said Saturday he is certain those responsible â and the weapons they created â will be found. "There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction," Gen. Tommy Franks said at a briefing in Doha, Qatar. "And as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them." Many of the people wanted for questioning have already been interviewed by U.N. weapons inspectors over the years. But those interviews were often conducted under the intimidating gaze of Saddam Hussein's regime, leaving inspectors doubtful as to whether they were being told everything they needed to hear. "Doubtful"?
The Americans "may well get a lot more out of interviews than we did," said Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for the U.N. inspectors. "If there was something hidden, there was no way that people under the old environment would have told us where to look," he said. But, but, Blixie said the inspectors were making progress. You mean that wasn't so?
Countries including France and Russia blocked the United States from winning U.N. support for the war partly because they saw no proof that Iraq still possessed weapons of mass destruction but mostly for their own crass purposes. The chief weapons inspectors reported several times that they had found nothing to support the administration's claims. And so far, invading U.S. forces have not found chemical or biological weapons.
They've been busy with other things, too. We're hoping they don't discover their existence when they're used on them...
Several U.N. inspectors who recently completed stints in Iraq believe stocks of anthrax, VX and other chemical and biological agents remain hidden in Iraq and that American specialists will be able to uncover materials they couldn't find. "I think they'll find a lot," said one senior inspector, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They'll find archives, they will find scientists who are willing to talk and definitely facilities that have been producing weapons." While U.N. inspectors managed to get important information from many Iraqis and exposed nuclear and biological weapons programs in the 1990s, U.S. forces will not employ the same genteel tactics of "tea and biscuits" used by the United Nations. Instead, the scientists and others involved in the programs will likely be taken to an interrogation facility and held for questioning, according to U.S. officials involved in the planning. We can use the prospect of Gitmo to loosen some tongues.
But some Iraqi scientists may talk willingly once Saddam has been deposed. "Saddam is dead?"
"Yeah doc, Saddam is dead."
"Uday is dead? Please tell me Uday is dead."
"Yep, big hemorrhage. Toes up."
"Qusay is dead?"
[drumming fingers] "All dead, doc. C'mon."
"Well then, what are we waiting for?"
U.S. and foreign disarmament specialists, including teams from Bulgaria and the Czech Republic, are equipped with ground-penetrating radar, sensors and sample-taking apparatus similar to that used by U.N. inspectors. Working with several former inspectors, they will likely go to many of the same locations inspectors have visited previously. Intelligence experts will be involved in questioning the scientists while disarmament specialists comb sites and analyze samples in the field using mobile labs. "This time, you won't have Iraqi security officials watching over you, you won't need anyone's permission to enter a site," said David Kaye, a former weapons inspector who worked in Iraq in the 1990s. President Bush and other U.S. officials have said Iraq's chemical stocks include the deadly nerve agents sarin, cyclosarin and VX and a mustard agent. Officials believe the weapons are under the control of the Republican Guard, Saddam's best trained and most loyal troops. A large part of those forces is concentrated in and around Baghdad. "Best trained Iraqi troops" -- that's like being the tallest dwarf in the circus.
Pentagon officials who discussed the chemical weapons issue on condition of anonymity said it was unclear what rank of Iraqi officer had the authority to order the use of chemical weapons. The No. 1 Iraqi wanted for questioning about Iraq's chemical weapons is Amir al-Saadi, a special adviser to Saddam who oversaw the program. He is believed to have in-depth knowledge of other weapons program as well. "He'll be a big target," said David Albright, an American nuclear expert who served with U.N. inspectors in Iraq in the 1990s. I think Amir has a short life expectancy.
Others named in Iraqi and U.N. documents as involved in developing long-range missiles that could be outfitted with chemical, biological or nuclear warheads include: I snipped the names listed, way too long. Fred, any of these jokers particularly odious?
The International Atomic Energy Agency, which ran nuclear inspections in Iraq, has said it found no evidence that Iraq is restarting a nuclear program and dismisses U.S. intelligence information to the contrary. But U.S. officials have not backed down from their concerns. Specialists will want to speak with Jaffar al-Jaffer, who founded Iraq's nuclear program in the 1980s and Mahdi Obeidi, a nuclear physicist involved in Iraq's uranium enrichment program.
In November, the Bush administration offered to protect Iraqi scientists who cooperated with U.N. weapons inspectors. But by the end of their four months in Iraq, inspectors had privately interviewed only 14 scientists of the 500 they had wanted to question. Hans Blix, the head of the U.N. inspections regime, has scheduled a training program in Brazil in April, and is keeping some inspectors and equipment in Cyprus so they could make a quick return to Baghdad once the fighting ends. Blix assumes we'll let him back in? Stay in Rio, Blixie, enjoy the girl-watching.
"We have inspections obfuscation capabilities in the biological and missile field that no other organization has in the world, and it is barely conceivable that some in the Security Council would want to rely on that capability," Blix told The Associated Press. Who, other than the Weasels?
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 08:15 am ||
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--The chief weapons inspectors reported several times that they had found nothing to support the administration's claims. And so far, invading U.S. forces have not found chemical or biological weapons. --
#3
--The chief weapons inspectors reported several times that they had found nothing to support the administration's claims. And so far, invading U.S. forces have not found chemical or biological weapons. --
#4
That's right Anonymous. We're fighting and we're looking. Why is that a difficult concept? Oh, I know, it's the war on terror. We can't possibly hunt for al-Queda while we're fighting in Iraq, right?
And when we do find these weapons, what'll your story be then? That the CIA planted them?
The pro-Saddamers already have the stories ready. If the war goes quickly and well, they'll claim it was an unfair fight, that, see, Saddam was no threat. If gets rough, they'll shout "Quagmire!"
If the sky is blue, they'll say it's raining. Whatever.
The left has no credibility, just slogans...
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
03/23/2003 2:50 Comments ||
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I think he meant the bigger priority right now is the fighting, not the looking.
Account of the first night for a US Marine unit near Basra. Edited for length.
Among the thousands of frightened US Marines out there in the dark on the night America invaded Iraq, Kyle Brisebois, a veteran at 33, should have been one of the cool, confident father figures to the younger men. He kept his head, but the hours of combat and chaos he saw in the fight to take Iraq's oilfields from Thursday to Friday were worse than anything he had experienced in the 1991 Gulf war. His account to The Observer was one of the first to reveal the intensity of that first night across the border, and the blunders and breakdowns which are the bleak, farcical reality of war. 'It was a nightmare,' he said yesterday, spitting regularly from a plug of chewing tobacco as he waited on a motorway bridge near Basra, preparing to move west. 'It was the worst fucking night of my life.' Brisebois, a staff sergeant, commands an M1 tank in the Marine's 5th regiment, which drove deep into Iraq in one of the first moves of the invasion.
Brisebois's tank was one of a platoon of four attached to a unit of Marine infantry charged with seizing the Rumaila oilfields, one of the richest prizes in Iraq. They set off in the darkness. No sooner had they charged through the breach in the sand wall marking the border between Kuwait and Iraq than one of the tanks broke down and had to be left behind. Not long after that, the hydraulics collapsed on two of the tanks, including Brisebois's. Corrosive fluid from a broken hydraulics pipe poured over Brisebois's gunner, Corporal Adam Finch. 'It was going all over him. He was getting burned,' Brisebois said. Well inside Iraqi territory, in darkness and at the height of an attack, the two other tanks drew up in a defensive position while Finch climbed out of the tank, stripped off his clothes, changed and got back in. 'In the middle of the night, he went bare-assed in the middle of the combat zone,' he said. 'I was thinking: How the hell am I going to explain this if he gets shot?'
To make things worse, the thermal imaging system on Brisebois's tank - the equipment which enables the crew to see in the dark - went on the blink. Amid the chaos, the platoon fell behind the infantry, and when they went on after them they got lost. In a minefield. 'I had night-vision goggles on and I looked down and I could see the round shape of landmines. They were all around the tank,' Brisebois said. 'It took us about 50 minutes to manoeuvre out.
All this happened before they were involved in any fighting. As they approached the oilfields, they were operating under constraints: they were free to kill any Iraqi soldiers in their way, but were only allowed to use their small calibre machine gun, and only certain kinds of ammunition in the tank's big gun, for fear of harming the most precious thing out there: the oil installations. As they approached a built-up area within the oilfields, they saw an American military vehicle, an M113, of a type sold by the US to Iraq when Washington and Saddam Hussein were on friendly terms. The tanks poured fire on the vehicle and on two men they saw trying to hide nearby. The Marine infantry joined in, firing grenades from automatic grenade launchers. The platoon came under fire from a piece of ex-Soviet heavy artillery, and saw a four-barrelled anti-aircraft cannon. It could have done fatal damage to one of their tanks, but for some reason it was firing blindly into the air. Despite their breakdowns, the US tanks destroyed it with ease, killing the crew.
Even with the breakdowns and near-disasters that befell their platoon, the Marines outgunned the Iraqis. One Marine lieutenant died of his wounds after a firefight in the battle for the Rumaila oil installations, but many more Iraqis were killed, and hundreds surrendered. 'They were coming out with white flags and the infantry would come in between the tanks and the prisoners of war and round them up,' Brisebois said. The battalion to which his platoon belongs captured between 300 and 400 prisoners. The story was the same across the whole front between Kuwait and Basra, where an Iraqi mechanised division, the 51st, was thinly spread out.
That the Iraqis' morale was already rock bottom, even before the attack, was shown not only by the speed with which they surrendered or abandoned uniforms and fled, but by their pitiful attempts to defend their homeland and their equipment. The lessons of the 1991 Gulf war — that parking tanks behind revetments of sand was like gift-wrapping them for US attack helicopters to destroy — was not learned. Bridges have not been blown. Roads have not been mined. The US and Britain have freedom of movement along the extensive system of motorways in southern Iraq.
There were some signs of resistance: yesterday morning one Marine captain said he understood a fierce tank battle was being waged between Zubair, where the 51st is headquartered, and Basra, despite the formal surrender of the division on Friday night. But with British and US artillery pounding the location of the battle, and Marine Cobra helicopters circling in fours through the smoke of burning oil pipelines, the Iraqis appeared to have no chance. The 51st appears to have been caught in a pincer movement as the 7th Marines moved in from the east and the 5th Marines from the west, supported by the mobile howitzers of the British.
Standing among a tense, tired cohort of dusty men and armour, preparing to move west and north towards Baghdad, Lt-Col Mike Oehl, commander of one of the Marine tank battalions which made the initial push into the south, said his unit had moved 53 miles in that first night, the furthest ever for a Marine armoured battalion. 'My battalion attacked in a big sweep to the south-west and got in behind the 51st,' he said. The commander was under no illusions about the vast technical superiority of the US and British troops over their Iraqi opponents, and unromantic about the ease with which they are crushing the Iraqis. 'Arguably, it isn't a fair fight, but I'm all for unfair fights.'
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 08:24 am ||
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"Bridges have not been blown. Roads have not been mined"
Interesting. Iraq too focused on unconventional defenses?
Kurdish leaders yesterday accused Turkey of delaying the long-awaited northern offensive by US forces to topple Saddam Hussein. "The Americans are so frustrated with the Turks it is unbelievable," said Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurdish leader, yesterday after talks with American and Turkish officials in Ankara. To the contrary, it's very believable.
In one incident the US was particularly angered when its strike aircraft were unable to give prompt support to a combined unit of US special forces and peshmerga (Kurdish soldiers) involved in a firefight with the Iraqi army, according to sources in Washington. That just about does it.
Turkey has refused to bow to demands from the US, Britain and Germany that it not invade Iraq in an effort to reduce the influence of the Iraqi Kurds in any post-Saddam settlement. The Kurds have now put their forces under the command of the US-led coalition in an effort to make themselves a more valuable partner of the US than Turkey in the war. They have also made available four airstrips for US forces to enter Iraqi Kurdistan as a base from which to advance on the northern cities of Mosul and Kirkuk. The Kurdish forces would like to paint themselves as full military allies of the US, especially as they have a somewhat different agenda, including the return of 300,000 Kurdish refugees to Kirkuk and Mosul provinces.
That's not very hard at this point...
The explosion of bombs or missiles illuminated the night sky over Mosul and Kirkuk where the First and Fifth Iraqi Army Corps, each with five divisions, are dug in. The Khalid military camp, one of the largest in Iraq, and the secret police headquarters in Kirkuk were hit, according to Mr Zebari.
Those would be likely targets — but we all know they were really aiming at women and children and puppies and kittens and baby ducks...
The US has abandoned its plans for an American military government of Iraq after the expected fall of President Saddam, said Mr Zebari after talks with US officials. Instead there would be an Iraqi interim authority which would include the Iraqi opposition and others not connected with the present government. This is big news if true.
American military assets on the ground in northern Iraq are not large. There are peshmerga units combined with a small number of US special forces. The US could also fly in airborne brigades, but could not mount anything like the heavy armoured attack being made on the Iraqi army in the south of the country. If it did rely heavily on the Kurds then this might precipitate the Turkish intervention which the US has been trying to avoid. Having the 4th infantry division there would be really nice right about now.
Mr Zebari said there had been one skirmish in which a US/peshmerga unit had called in an air strike that killed three Iraqi soldiers. He hinted that a general attack might occur in two or three days, but the frontline remained quiet yesterday.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 08:30 am ||
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--The US has abandoned its plans for an American military government of Iraq after the expected fall of President Saddam, said Mr Zebari after talks with US officials. Instead there would be an Iraqi interim authority which would include the Iraqi opposition and others not connected with the present government.--
We're screwed. W might still be his father's son, when we need his mother's side.
#2
UN need not apply. France and Russia will have to discuss their prior contracts with the new LEGITIMATE leaders of the Iraq Interim Authority, instead of the UN or US... heh heh. Also seeking private bids for food distribution, security services, construction and oil well maintainence.
With an Iraqi Interim Authority, the UN's "illegal war" time-bomb just exploded in a blaze of glory. What are they going to do? Demand we recognize Saddam or members from the prior regime? Ha ha..very clever indeed! OTOH, I suppose they could try to sue Sadaam for breach of contract and then collect from his Swiss Bank accounts. Good luck.
Additional item on NEW Iraqi government's to-do list, select new ambassadors for France, Russia, Mexico and Chili.
#4
one of main reasons for holding off on recgonizing an Iraqi govt was defference to Turkey. With Turkey so uncooperative, recogniton makes more sense
Long but good article on the great job the British troops are doing in the oil fields. Edited for length.
The hastily erected handwritten sign at the exit to the UN demilitarised zone read "Welcome to Iraq from the fighting 61st. Have a nice day!" As British troops advanced north yesterday to try and prevent an environmental disaster in one of the world's largest oil fields, their first sight was the small wooden board left by the US Marines. Patton did that in Sicily, didn't he?
Throughout the Rumeila oil fields, towers of black smoke and searing flames could be seen emanating from the small well-heads dotted across the landscape around the gas and oil separation plants (Gosps) in a reminder of Saddam Hussein's torching of Kuwaiti oil fields following the last Gulf conflict.
This time, however, coalition forces were determined to avert destruction on a similar scale to that of 12 years ago. While US Marines were sent in to seize the plants west of Basra, the dangerous task of removing explosives left by the Iraqi army fell to the British 16 Air Assault Brigade. As they advanced from Kuwait, at least nine well-heads were already on fire, ignited by retreating Iraqis. Fierce orange to bright yellow flames belched forth in ferocious mushroom formations before forming thick, acrid spirals of smoke. Thousands of brigade vehicles formed a convoy, dozens of miles long, snaking 60kms into southern Iraq, after Royal Engineers cleared fields of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines.
Small camps of remaining Marines with armed lookouts posted could be seen along the road, as infantry from the Royal Irish Regiment began setting up camps around the Gosps. Their job was to secure the fields, as experts were brought in to fight the flames, protected by the brigade's elite helicopter 3 Regiment Army Air Corps. Lynx Mk7s will circle to the north and east, tasked with picking off any incoming Iraqis with their anti-tank missiles while the Gazelles carry out reconnaissance to order in the back-up of fast jets if necessary. The regiment was also using one of their Lynx Mk9s to transport commanding officers and in case of any need to evacuate downed pilots.
With well-heads already aflame, there were fears the rest were rigged for demolition as Royal Engineers went in to search for mines and explosives placed around the well-heads. One US Marine officer was killed on Friday and several injured by mines peppered around the oil fields, and clearing them proved a painstaking process for British experts. Their task was made even more precarious by burning trenches of oil set alight in an attempt to hamper soldiers and disorient the pilots.
British troops, co-ordinating with the Americans as part of the Marine Expeditionary Force, were posted throughout a 1,800sqkm area into Iraq, with the Household Cavalry and the 3 Para regiment fortifying the northern edge as the US Marines moved on. "Our objective is to secure the infrastructure, prevent what destruction we can and an ecological disaster. The oil fields are key to rebuilding the country and we have got to save them for the Iraqi people," explained Lieutenant Colonel George Butler, commanding officer of the 3 Regiment Army Air Corps.
It had been a classic game of "hurry up and wait" for the 3 Regiment Army Air Corps and its fellow troops from the 16 Air Assault Brigade. Having left its base at Camp Eagle in Kuwait early on Thursday, the brigade gathered in the south before making its way through the desert in a blacked-out convoy to a second destination. Early on Friday morning the brigade made its way across a landscape so barren that only wreckage broke up the skyline, to a point just 11km south of the border. As they waited to advance, there were countless calls to take cover in sand trenches as the Iraqis fired in retaliation. While coalition Patriot missiles disabled half of the 10 missiles, several exploded without any casualties. Tense soldiers put out a series of false alarms, hitting their horns or shouting "gas, gas, gas" and donning respirator masks. Despite having some of the most sophisticated gas detection equipment in the world, the sound of bombardment sparked a panic among soldiers who immediately followed the protective procedures drummed into them over the previous weeks. Well done, lads.
If they "immediately followed the protective procedures drummed into them over the previous weeks" then they didn't panic, did they?
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 08:58 am ||
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Edited to stay on target
Tony Blair's War Cabinet was told by intelligence chiefs yesterday that Saddam Hussein survived last week's cruise missile attack on his bunker in Baghdad, but sustained serious injury. The Telegraph has learned that ministers were told at a special 40-minute briefing that the Iraqi leader had been so badly wounded he needed a blood transfusion. "Dr. Bashir! Our glorious leader is severely injured!"
"Quickly man, we need to arrange a blood transfusion!"
[to guard]"Bring me a Kurd!"
His son, Uday, is also thought to have been injured and may even have been killed. Some American officials also claimed yesterday that another of Saddam's relatives, Ali Hassan al-Majid â known as "Chemical Ali" for his involvement in the infamous 1988 Halabja chemical weapons attacks â had been killed. That's too bad, I wanted to see Ali in a war crimes trial. And I really wanted to see him swing at the gallows.
A British official said: "Saddam Hussein was badly injured. He was so badly injured he needed a blood transfusion. Unfortunately, he was not critically injured. We think he is still alive. We also think his son Uday was killed or badly injured." Uday was badly injured in the previous assasination attempt. How many times can he take being badly injured?
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 08:37 am ||
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He looked healthy enough in his TV appearance assuming that it was not pre recorded.
As a guess, I think that he is probably hidding too scared to publicly admit that he is okay, and encourage more attempts against himself.
#3
This is going to be a wild conspiracy theory BUT could it be possible that Saddam was killed and that someone close to him is negotiating to prolong his legacy as part of the surrender deal? I know it's a stretch, but the Iraqi regime isn't exactly playing with a full deck to begin with.
The pentagon claimed 40 cruise missles and 4 bunker busters were dropped on the place, and that Saddam was seen placed on the stretcher. What are the odds that anyone lived throug it?
Posted by: g wiz ||
03/23/2003 8:47 Comments ||
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Xinhuanet 2003-03-23 11:19:33
¡¡¡¡BEIJING, March 23 (Xinhuanet) -- The following are the latest key developments relating to the Iraq war:
¡¡¡¡CAIRO -- Up to 20 US special force commandos have been captured while making landing attempts in the Iraqi capital city of Baghdad, Arabia TV based in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, said Sunday.
¡¡¡¡There has been no confirmation from either the Iraqi side or the US-led coalition.
Posted by: glen ||
03/23/2003 08:40 am ||
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Report Saddam seen playing pi-gow in Mandalay Bay Saturday night.
Posted by: g wiz ||
03/23/2003 8:49 Comments ||
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If neither the Iraqis nor Coalition have confirmed the capture then who made the initial report? I guess official responses still being prepared. Awaitng credible confirmation.............
#5
I've been watching Jeezera on the Internet. They spent a lot of time on something going on in Baghdad's river, marked "exclusive" a couple hours ago. Lots of smoke on the riverbank, troops, gunboats in the river, gawkers, and such.
I couldn't tell what exactly was going on, and they didn't have any closeup shots of the bank. Could be connected, though.
Posted by: Scott ||
03/23/2003 9:27 Comments ||
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(Edited for length)
The State Department said it had repeatedly brought sales of "militarily sensitive equipment" to Iraq to the attention of senior officials in Moscow, including in the days leading up to the current conflict, but had not yet received a satisfactory response.
The U.S. on Sunday, March 23, complained that Russia has not adequately dealt with its concerns about arms sales to Iraq by Russian firms which it said threatened the safety of U.S., British and Australian troops now invading Baghdad, adding that Russian technicians are helping Iraq jam satellite signals that currently guide bombs and military aircraft.[...]
Meanwhile, a senior U.S. official told AFP Sunday that Russian technicians are now helping Iraq jam crucial satellite signals needed to guide bombs and military aircraft.
Washington had evidence that personnel from a Russian firm were now in Iraq and attempting to help set up and operate a sophisticated system that interferes with the U.S. global positioning technology, he said on condition of anonymity.
The official stressed that there was no indication that the Russian government was involved in the efforts, but said Moscow had been "extremely unhelpful" in addressing the U.S. concerns.
The Washington Post reported earlier Sunday that U.S. officials were deeply concerned by evidence that three Russian firms were selling weapons and sophisticated electronic military equipment to Iraq.
One firm has helped the Iraqi military deploy electronic jamming equipment against U.S. planes and bombs while the other two have sold antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles, the Post said, citing unidentified sources.
The sources told the paper that despite being confronted with a paper trail of documents supporting the concerns, the Russians had first denied the existence of the company selling the jamming equipment and then said only they would watch its activities very closely.
Last month, the Post said Washington learned that an Iraqi order for thousands of night vision goggles was due to be shipped by one of the Russian firms and asked Moscow to halt it.
Instead, Russian officials replied by saying either that a few goggles had been given as gifts to Middle Eastern leaders or that it was the weekend and nothing could be done, the paper said, citing the sources.
In addition, over the past two months Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's government has boosted its procurement of anti-tank missiles made by a Russian company named KBP Tula, the Post said.
Of greatest concern to Washington, the paper said, is the sales of the jamming devices which can interfere with U.S. global positioning equipment needed for aircraft navigation and ground forces.
U.S. officials began to complain about the sales of the equipment by Moscow-based firm Aviaconversiya in June 2002 but were met with denials that the company existed despite its Internet site and extensive media coverage.
The Russian company on Sunday flatly denied that its technicians are helping Iraq jam crucial satellite signals needed to guide bombs and military aircraft as U.S.-led forces advance on Baghdad.
"They (U.S.) are just making this up. Let them capture one of our personnel," said Oleg Antonov, director of Moscow-based Aviaconversiya.
"They won't find any of our technicians in Iraq. The Americans are trying to find a scapegoat because their bombs are not falling as accurately as they want," he told AFP.
The company's director flatly denied it had been selling jamming equipment to the Iraqis, though he admitted Baghdad had been interested in acquiring the system.
Antonov told AFP that Iraqi representatives had expressed interest repeatedly in the jammers, designed to confound global positioning system guidance gear used in aircraft and bombs.
But he denied that his firm had sold any such devices to Iraq, suggesting that the Baghdad regime had either manufactured the jammers themselves or bought them from a third country.
"We didn't sell anything to Iraq. Over the past four years, Iraq sent us their representatives expressing an interest in placing orders.
"They came some 15 times, held negotiations, promised to transfer funds, but they left and we never saw them again. They didn't buy anything," said Antonov.
"I told the Americans and our presidential administration that probably Iraq made these jammers itself or with the help of Yugoslavia," Antonov said.
Contacted by AFP, the Russian foreign ministry and the U.S. embassy in Moscow say that they could not comment on the matter.
Another Russian firm, KBP Tula, which is accused of selling anti-tank missiles to Iraq over the past two months, could not be reached for comment.
Al Qaeda leaders, long known to covet biological and chemical weapons, have reached at least the threshold of production and may already have manufactured some of them, according to a newly obtained cache of documentary evidence and interrogations recently conducted by the U.S. government. Three people with access to written reports said the emerging picture depicts the al Qaeda biochemical weapons program as considerably more advanced than U.S. analysts knew. The picture continues to sharpen daily, one official said, because translation and analysis of the documents continues, and because the operative captured with them began divulging meaningful information about production plans only this week.
Killing people by any means is their fervent desire...
Leaders at the top of al Qaeda's hierarchy, the evidence shows, completed plans and obtained the materials required to manufacture two biological toxins â botulinum and salmonella â and the chemical poison cyanide. They are also close to a feasible production plan for anthrax, a far more lethal weapon, which kills 90 percent of untreated victims if spread by inhalation and as many as 75 percent of those treated when the first symptoms become evident. Among the documents seized was a direction to purchase bacillus anthracis, the bacterium that causes anthrax disease *O.K., before we freak out, it's highly unlikely that someone suffering from anthrax would be "untreated" here in the US. Also, that 75% death rate mentioned in the article seems pretty high given the actually number of deaths from the "anthrax letter" attacks after September 11th.*
Most of the new information comes from handwritten documents and computer hard drives seized during the March 1 capture of Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Significantly, one official noted, Mohammed was arrested at a Rawalpindi, Pakistan, home owned by Abdul Quddoos Khan, a bacteriologist with access to production materials and facilities who has since disappeared. *Hopefully, this Khan guy "disappeared" into our hands. If not, we got another guy to put onto the FBI's "most wanted terrorist" list.*
Qudoos' son was nabbed with KSM and should still be in custody. The old man is "retired."
Because of Mohammed's central role in operations, one senior official said, his apparent connection to biochemical weapons is a "very scary" sign that al Qaeda's efforts reach well beyond the hypothetical. At first analysts were unsure of Mohammed's direct involvement because the documents were not written in his hand and were seized in a house that does not belong to him. But digitally scanned images of the same documents have been extracted from one of Mohammed's computer hard drives. Confronted with that evidence, a second U.S. expert said, Mohammed has begun to talk about the production program in the past two or three days. What the documents and debriefings show, the first official said, is that "he was involved in anthrax production, and [knew] quite a bit about it." *So Khalid is still talking and still producing useful information. That's interesting.*
"Time for your giggle juice, Khalid!"
"Oooh, thankew, nursh..."
Government experts are also filling out their picture of Ayman Zawahiri, al Qaeda's second-ranking leader, as the central figure in overseeing and funding the biological and chemical weapons effort. Investigators have known since the late 1990s that in early experiments, al Qaeda killed animals with homemade contact poisons at its Derunta camp in Afghanistan. The project there fell under the command of Midhat Mursi, an Egyptian who uses the alias of Abu Kebab and is among the most-wanted al Qaeda operatives still at large. But Mursi is not thought to have sophisticated knowledge of biology. *Zwahiri, if memory serves me, is a medical doctor gone bad.*
Mursi was in Chechnya, when last heard from...
What is new in the recent documents is al Qaeda recruited competent scientists, including a Pakistani microbiologist whom the officials interviewed this week declined to name. Hmm, why?
Because he's "retired," perhaps?
The documents describe specific timelines for producing biochemical weapons and include a bar graph depicting the parallel processes that must take place between Days 1 and 31 of manufacture. Included are inventories of equipment and indications of readiness to grow seed stocks of pathogen in nutrient baths and then dry the resulting liquid slurry into a form suitable for aerosol dispersal. U.S. officials said the evidence neither establishes nor rules out that al Qaeda completed manufacture. The documents are undated and unsigned and cryptic about essential details. They do not mention the whereabouts of actual or planned production. Because of al Qaeda's limited sophistication, the documents do not support a theory that al Qaeda had a role in the anthrax letters mailed in late 2001 to Senate and news media offices that killed five people.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
03/23/2003 08:55 am ||
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A commander who has quarreled with Yasser Arafat may be tapped to head all of the Palestinian security forces as incoming premier Mohammed Abbas starts to assemble his Cabinet, officials say. Palestinian sources speaking on condition of anonymity said Abbas met with Mohammed Dahlan, the former Gaza security chief, and is considering naming him Interior Minister. Abbas, picked as premier after Arafat gave in to intense international and local pressure to reform his regime, met Saturday with leaders of the Fatah movement and began consultations about picking a new Cabinet. Arafat is the leader of Fatah; Abbas is his deputy.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 08:01 pm ||
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interesting since Yasser still officially is in control of security, while Abbas gets to appoint cabinet - Pal's new unwritten constitution seems to be internally contradictory - at least Abbas seems to be trying to take advantage of that.
Federal agents cracking down on terrorist financing schemes raided several businesses and made multiple arrests this week, Fox News has learned. During the past 72 hours, Operation Green Quest â the multi-agency terrorist financial crimes task force â arrested nine individuals, executed nine search warrants and 10 seizure warrants, and seized roughly $120,000 in California, Minnesota, New York, Michigan and New Jersey, officials said. Authorities said while none of those who were arrested over the last three days are being charged with being terrorists, the schemes they used and the countries they were involved with have been "exploited by terrorist organizations." The bankers tend to keep their hands clean. They only get 36 virgins...
The arrests and seizures were the result of separate investigations by Postal Inspection Service, FBI, Secret Service, Naval Intelligence Service and the Coast Guard among others. The operation, which originated in the Treasury Department, is now being coordinated by the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement under the Department of Homeland Security. "By dismantling these illegal networks, we are denying avenues for terrorist groups to raise and move funds in this country," said Michael Garcia, a top official with ICE. I'm all for it, regardless of what the ACLU says...
In Los Angeles on Friday morning, agents arrested one individual and executed search warrants on his business and residence in connection with allegations that he had illegally structured financial transactions to evade federal reporting requirements. Authorities intercepted more than 270 money orders totaling nearly $136,000 that the individual was allegedly shipping to Beirut via private parcels.
Thursday night in New York City, four individuals were arrested and $71,400 in currency was seized by agents working with the FBI. Multiple bank seizure warrants were issued as well as a search warrant in connection with an investigation into a Pakistani money remittance business.
Authorities said an 18-month undercover operation showed a business named Manhattan Foreign Exchange moved $33 million to Pakistan. The money was said to be from illegal narcotics. The owner of Manhattan Foreign Exchange, Shaheen Khalid Butt, was charged with money laundering, currency reporting, conspiracy and immigration fraud charges.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/23/2003 06:45 pm ||
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LONDON (AFP) - Iraq was probably responsible for stray missiles which landed in Iranian territory during the weekend, Britain's defence ministry revealed.
"Given the disposition of forces it's most likely that this incident was the result of Iraqi action, that's currently the situation," a ministry of defence spokeswoman told AFP on Sunday. This is kinda like smacking your little sister in the arm and blaming it on the kid standing next to you.
"We are aware of the claims being made that missiles have landed in Iranian territory and we are taking the claims very seriously," she said, without specifying whether or not the missiles themselves were Iraqi.
The targeting of coalition missiles was "very carefully planned to avoid civilian areas", the spokeswoman said. Translation: if we wanted to hit you, you'd get hit.
On Saturday an Iranian commander told the country's official IRNA news agency that two rockets had landed in Iran, also complaining that British and US warplanes had violated Iranian air space.
The missiles hit the Meniouhi region, on the shores of the Shatt al-Arab, the waterway which separates Iraq from Iran, the news agency quoted the unidentified commander as saying.
Later Saturday that United States told Iran that an investigation was underway into reports that two Tomahawk cruise missiles aimed at Iraq had veered off course and were to blame.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
03/23/2003 01:28 pm ||
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Iran is now saying that it came from Iraq. CNN Story, posted at 0732aes:
Iran believes a missile that landed inside its border last week came from Iraq and not the United States, as first suspected, the country's official IRNA news agency said Sunday.
Interior Minister Abdolvahed Moussavi Lari said examinations indicated that the missile, which landed in the western region of Sardasht, was made by Iraq.
Posted by: Old Grouch ||
03/23/2003 14:35 Comments ||
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In war-shattered cities and dreary refugee camps, Chechens on Sunday voted in a constitutional referendum that Russia hopes will bring stability after nearly a decade of bloodshed. Voters are being asked to approve a constitution that cements Chechnya's status as part of the Russian Federation and sets the stage for future presidential and parliamentary elections. Polls were to close at noon EST, with the first results expected Monday. I suspect the results are already in.
Some 540,000 people are eligible to vote, including 38,000 Russian servicemen permanently stationed in Chechnya, said Chechen administration spokesman Edi Isayev. That should help the 'yes' vote!
Two polling booths have also been set up in the neighboring republic of Ingushetia, where tens of thousands of Chechen refugees live, too fearful to return home because of continued fighting between separatists and Russian forces. For the results to be valid, 50 percent of eligible voters must participate. Ah, but for the old Soviet days, when 99.99% of the people voted. The same way.
The Russian government and the Moscow-appointed Chechen administration have been campaigning tirelessly, portraying the constitution as a key step toward bringing life back to normal in the region. Russian President Vladimir Putin made a personal appeal in a broadcast shown on Chechen television, and in the run-up to the vote, the government pulled out a small contingent of troops and suggested an amnesty for some fighters might be possible when Hell freezes over. Some Chechens said they hoped the vote would be a turning point. ``I consider today's event very important in the life of the republic,'' voter Lechi Magomedov, who came to a polling station neatly attired in a necktie, said on state-controlled Channel 1 television. Still, there are many unresolved questions about what the Chechens are being offered, including how much autonomy Chechnya will be given or when elections will be held. "We'll tell you later. Now get out there and vote!"
Critics have argued that a new constitution alone cannot end the war and cannot take the place of negotiations with terrorist rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov, who has portrayed the vote as a last stand by a frustrated Russian government. Russia controls most of the region, but it still loses troops daily in small-scale rebel ambushes and is constantly on guard against a larger attack. Human rights groups questioned the legitimacy of any vote held in conditions of war. In the past week, polling stations — most housed in Chechen schools — have come under regular arson, grenade and gunfire attacks. Maskhadov, of course, knows nothing about this.
``If Moscow really wants peace and stability in Chechnya, Putin must leave aside his ambitions and talk to the people who are fighting, and not with those who are loyal to Russia,'' said Aset Musayeva, 45, of Grozny. "I mean, who cares about them? They don't carry guns or wear turbans!"
Other Chechens were more hopeful. ``Who knows? Maybe something will change. We are all hoping for that,'' said Sheiman Gapayeva, 52. Twenty-six international observers were monitoring the vote, but security concerns were keeping away key organizations such as the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/23/2003 08:00 am ||
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Since this doesn't institutionalize Shar'ia law, set special taxes on the Russian Orthodox Church, or call for the extermination of Jews, there is no chance that it will appease the Islamofascists into laying down their arms, or "our friends, the Saudis" into shutting off the money pipeline.
#2
Since this doesn't institutionalize Shar'ia law, set special taxes on the Russian Orthodox Church, or call for the extermination of Jews, there is no chance that it will appease the Islamofascists into laying down their arms, or "our friends, the Saudis" into shutting off the money pipeline.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
