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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Put Away the Pliers Here’s Shiek Abdul and His Well Worn Quran
A little late in the day, but I thought it would be of interest to many you Rantburgers.
Saudi Arabia, known for harsh criminal penalties such as beheadings, is trying a gentler approach to get information from some al-Qaida captives. Saudi interrogators often bring clerics and a Quran to their prison interviews to establish a religious connection, a technique that has proved successful in eliciting information from terrorist suspects and reorienting them to less violent religious beliefs.

The tactic, similar to the way cult deprogrammers work in the United States, has impressed American counterparts enough that Saudi intelligence was permitted to use some of the principles on their citizens being held at the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Saudi officials said. The technique is being credited in part for the extraordinary public renouncement of violence by two former militant Saudi clerics, Nasser al-Fahd and Ali al-Khudair. They went on state-owned television in the past few weeks to recant their religious edicts promoting violence. "We see this as an important development, one that is getting the attention it needs to get inside Saudi Arabia," U.S. embassy spokesman Carol Kalin said in a telephone interview from Riyadh, the Saudi capital. The religious reorientation is markedly different from some hard-core interrogation tactics that can use sleep deprivation, alternate rewards and punishment and other methods to elicit information.
Pliers?

Saudi officials, who would describe their interrogation methods only on condition of anonymity, said the tactic is reserved mostly for midlevel and low-level al-Qaida prisoners who were attracted to Osama bin Laden’s network through a perversion of Islam. Shortly after these al-Qaida prisoners are taken into custody, Saudi interrogators send in a cleric who appears to espouse militant Islamic views to help build a personal bond with the young men and open a dialogue based on Islam. "Once we connect with them, the interrogators slowly hand them over to a more moderate cleric, who sits with them and goes over what the Quran says and discusses what the traditions of the prophet are," one Saudi official explained. Over time, the clerics position the prisoners to repent and renounce their past allegiance to the network established by the Saudi-born fugitive bin Laden. Then traditional interrogators are brought in to question the prisoners and learn tactical information, officials said. "We have learned that what drove them into this cult, and what causes them to cooperate, is religion," said one senior Saudi official involved in intelligence work.
Noticed that, did you?
A senior U.S. diplomatic official said American officials have observed firsthand the Saudi interrogation tactic and regard it as "a set of skills that is very important in this cultural and religiously oriented society." Saudi officials said they were permitted in the last year to visit many of their citizens being held as enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay. While Saudi questioners did not have enough time to do a full religious reprogramming, they used some of the basic principles to help build a relationship and elicit information, Saudi officials said. U.S. officials confirmed the visit. "Saudi Arabia has been one of the countries who has sent a delegation to Guantanamo to talk to their enemy combatants who are detained here," Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the commander of the detention camp, told Associated Press Television News. Miller said the Saudis were permitted only to use interrogation techniques approved by the Pentagon.
So which technique did they use? The one touted in this article or a method prescribed by the Pentagon?

U.S. and Saudi officials note the technique would never work on hard-core terrorist leaders. Also, the type of al-Qaida recruit on whom it does work often has no information about bin Laden’s inner circle plans, they added. Nonetheless, Saudi officials have elicited valuable information. A Saudi official in Washington said one al-Qaida recruit who went through the reprogramming provided information that helped prompt a security warning to airlines over the summer.

Significant information has been learned about how young Saudi men were lured into al-Qaida by bin Laden’s recruiters.
That’s been a secret?
Experts say the religious reprogramming tactic works well as a carrot in a society that also threatens a harsh stick — Islamic trials followed by swift, public beheadings of criminal.
A threat of being shortened by a foot can cause one’s tongue to loosen.
It has developed over decades as the Saudis have looked for ways to rehabilitate their citizens. Nathaniel Kern, who runs a Washington firm that advises oil companies on Middle East security and intelligence, recalled how a Saudi royal prince aided the families of a group of Saudi Air Force officers convicted of an attempted coup in 1969.
One of these officers was the commander of Daharan Air Base (RSAF) and possibly a leader of the attempted coup. He was also brother to an officer that I worked with at HQ RSAF (1970-1971). The quiet rumor circulating around the HQ at the time was that all those involved in the coup had been taken aboard a RSAF C-130 and dumped in the Rub Al Kahli (Empty Quarter). No one really knew the fate of these officers.
The prince made sure "their wives got their salary checks, that the kids were doing well in school, that the families were taken care of. The wives and kids hadn’t done anything wrong," Kern said. "By 1975, the officers that were still alive had repented and were released, but their loyalties were really won over by the care their families had been given. It’s a part of the world where you don’t need to make enemies if you can help it," he said.
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/30/2003 9:01:45 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Using the koran to fight terroism. To bad the koran is used to wage terrorism. The royals should do a Constatine and declare Islam a false doctrine, oops that would be a bombshell. Could you imagine though.

Maybe john Lennon was on to something but couldn't quite completely spell it out.

"Imagine no Islamism,
I know it's hard to do.
No clerics to lead us
and no fatwas too.
Imagine all the people..."

If it comes to that.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 21:51 Comments || Top||


oops
PC did not remember me(my fault)you will recognize my posts,I hopeI esoecially like the one on cats.
Posted by: raptor || 11/30/2003 7:43:02 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Fuck political correctness
Political correctness is ruining the English language. And it's by far the most subversive way to curtail free speech. While the state cannot tell us what we can or can't say without causing an instant uproar, the PC-police does it on a regular basis without so much as a whimper from most people. I used the word "authoress" in my Black Friday post. And then a friend pointed out that it's sexist. Indeed, the OED says, that the word is "now used only when sex is purposely emphasized". I used to think an "authoress" was a female writer. No, I didn't mean it as a sexist slight.

Recently, the LA county outlawed the use of the phrase "master/slave" for hard disk connections. I'm surprised electrical engineers are still allowed to use the "male/female" terminology for plugs and sockets. Terrorists are routinely referred to as militants. One is economically unprepared, not poor. It goes on an on.

All this is just downright stupid. Perfectly innocent words are injected with far-fetched derogatory connotations, and are henceforth politically incorrect. People should have better things to do with their time. Well, fuck that.
Posted by: Vivek || 11/30/2003 2:31:22 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Let's remember that control and reduction of the language in order to make it unable to express thinkings against the Party was key in the dictatorship depicted in 1984
Posted by: JFM || 11/30/2003 2:51 Comments || Top||

#2  According to Joe Sandoval's edict, published here 11/25/03, such terms as male, female, and gender bender may also be forbidden in La La County.
http://www.rantburg.com/default.asp?D=11/25/03#21791

The County of Los Angeles actively promotes and is committed to ensure a work environment that is free from any discriminatory influence be it actual or perceived. As such, it is the County’s expectation that our manufacturers, suppliers and contractors make a concentrated effort to ensure that any equipment, supplies or services that are provided to County departments do not possess or portray an image that may be construed as offensive or defamatory in nature. Emphasis is mine.

And the Lord only knows what else may be perceived as offensive to at least one employee.

Labeling on boxes is only the tip of the problem. There're all forms of documentation that may contain 'offensive' words as well as markings on the equipment and cards themselves. Get busy LA County you've just begun. It's silly and unnessary purchasing specs like this that led to the "$500 hammer" and "$50 bolt".
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/30/2003 7:46 Comments || Top||

#3  While I have no regrets about the general disappearance of racial and ethnic slurs from most civil discourse in this counrty I do strongly object to the notion of some inocent remark or technical term can be misconstrued and be the subject of a legal action. That is just plain stupid. I also object to the "highjacking" of certain words by certain members or groups of society. The classic example is the word "gay". Using it today in its original context is almost impossible.
Posted by: Cheddarhead || 11/30/2003 9:25 Comments || Top||

#4  You might also like to glance at Erin's website:
http://www.erinoconnor.org/

She has documented a couple of real wacko cases where professors used the 'n' word while making otherwise PC remarks, (e.g., "I object to naming a team the Redskins the same as I would object to naming a team the niggers". The person who made that remark is in deep dodo with Univ biggies.
Posted by: mhw || 11/30/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#5  I still feel discriminated if i'm "secondary" to the "primary" .
Could that be the reason why the primaries are always in turmoil?
Posted by: Barry || 11/30/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#6  I like to think of Rantburg as being a bastion of political non-correctitude. If there are any racial, ethnic, political or cultural groups we've failed to offend, just shoot me an e-mail and we'll spend a day or two poking fun at them.
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2003 11:25 Comments || Top||

#7  Remember the new language people in George Orwell's "1984". Forgotten what it was called, but it kept theoretical dialogs from happening.
Posted by: SamIII || 11/30/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#8  Samill,

The language was called Newspeak

a site containing the dictionary is at:
http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns_frames.html

for example,
-------------------
Hate week - Week in which Oceanian citizens all attend rallies and parades to inflame hatred of Party enemies and heighten their efforts on behalf of Oceania.
----------------
In much of Islam and the socialist left, every week is Hateweek.
Posted by: mhw || 11/30/2003 12:04 Comments || Top||

#9  The problem with this board is that it's chock full of people who have a ton of real life experience, and are therefore stuck on the very non-PC notion that some things are "right" and other things are "wrong." However, we might be able to camouflage this by changing our terminology, e.g.:

Old Way: "Osama is an evil bastard I would like to choke to death with my very own hands."

New Way: "Osama is a morally-challenged extra-marital person I would like to choke to death with my very own hands."

See the difference?
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 12:08 Comments || Top||

#10  Matt,
I work with some very very PC people and they would alter your last quote to,

"Osama has issues, maybe self esteem issues, we should be concerned."
Posted by: mhw || 11/30/2003 12:14 Comments || Top||

#11  (sniff sniff) Now my feelings are hurt.
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 12:25 Comments || Top||

#12  buck-up nancyboy! No snivellers allowed ;-)
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 13:23 Comments || Top||

#13  I cheered right up when I saw this site:

http://www.studentsforwar.org/
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 13:54 Comments || Top||

#14  I knew you could!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 14:09 Comments || Top||

#15  Niggardly sounds so offensive. Thus it must be offensive. Sorry if I've caused any concerns.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 14:33 Comments || Top||

#16  There's a very talented, very erudite judge that is in great demand for public speaking in the Midwest. Can't remember his name, but his main topic is the use of language to stifle debate. He's about the LEAST PC person I've ever heard speak. He absolutely refuses to allow politically correct speech in his courtroom, saying that it interferes with the administration of justice. We need more judges like that, and fewer like the idiotarians in Mass. and O'Conner and Ginsburg on the Supreme Court.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 14:53 Comments || Top||

#17  RE Above: Failed to mention this guy is a former Air Force fighter pilot (126 missions in Vietnam) and black! That REALLY gets the reactionaries going!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#18  MHW, you've got my sympathy mate!

OP - you sure you can't remember this guys name?

Does the Midwest take none of this PC BS?. Sounds very good indeed.
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 11/30/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#19  thanks Tony,

My boss's, boss's, boss's boss is Norm Mineta (of 'no I don't see any reason to check young arab men more closely than 90 year old swedish women' fame.
Posted by: mhw || 11/30/2003 16:12 Comments || Top||

#20  Tony (UK) #18, Here in the Midwest the acceptance of the PC "way" is spotty. There was a big uproar last year due to a Mayor's aide using the word niggardly in a public debate. On the other hand, my kid's public grade school has the Christ child, Mary, Joseph displayed in the schoolyard. Also, one of the kid's Thanksgiving programs made mention of God's love for us. Not, the creator, not the universal being, not Allah, etc. but God. Not surprisingly no one in the audience swooned or passed out at the mention of His name.

From my perspective, we aren't as 'sensitive' as some on the left and right coasts and our speech is pretty direct and to the point. To call someone a mother f*&#er can be a term of friendship while adding dago or hillbilly to the beginning of that and you've bought yourself a trip to the emergency room. Just like it should be.




Posted by: doc8404 || 11/30/2003 17:34 Comments || Top||

#21  Vivek__ sorry to have to tell you this but you cannot use the word "fuck" since it demeans women; you must now use the word "Twinkle"; thus , you should have said (and I'm sure you really meant) "Twinkle that".
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/30/2003 17:40 Comments || Top||

#22  Sorry Matt, but you haven't quite got it, yet. The proper PC version is:

New Way: "Osama is a morally-challenged extra-marital person whose hyoid process I'd like to vigorously massage with my thumbs and teeth..."

Posted by: Mercutio || 11/30/2003 17:45 Comments || Top||

#23  We even have a prayer before high school football games out here in the Midwest, not that it helped our teams' record any this year:)
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 11/30/2003 18:46 Comments || Top||

#24  Politically correct *Where did "PC" speech come from? Communism! *
Posted by: John Anderson || 11/30/2003 19:05 Comments || Top||

#25  Can't wait till they find out that the LA Electrical Code requires BLACK and WHITE wires:

(Idiot: "Black and White wires may no longer be used, all wires must be the same color of gray. As in this connection right here..."
POW!
"oops...")
Posted by: Old Grouch || 11/30/2003 19:30 Comments || Top||

#26  Mercutio, it just doesn't come naturally to me, but I agree that's an improvement.

Tony, roughly speaking you talk PC in faculty lounges, student newspapers, cocktail parties and in parts of the "blue" states. (Unless you're talking about the President in a faculty lounge, in which case you're entirely free to use any insults that come to mind.)
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 19:34 Comments || Top||

#27  Nice opinion piece here that fits in quite well with this discussion. I'm not a big Lamm fan, but this is right on.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 20:31 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan
ISI equips Taliban Hell’s Angels
EFL
Taliban fighters carrying out "drive-by" attacks on American troops and peacekeepers have been equipped with 700 motorbikes, weapons and satellite phones supplied by Pakistani intelligence officials, according to leaders of fighters attacking Coalition forces. The motorcycles have played a key role in Taliban hit-and-run operations in the south of the country where the campaign against international troops and aid workers has intensified. Taliban commanders disclosed details of the deal with individual Pakistani intelligence officials at a meeting in a safe house in Kila Abdulla, a small Pakistani town near the Afghan border. Despite Islamabad’s strong public support for the US-led war on terror, rebel leaders said that individual officials of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) backed the Afghan rebels in an attempt to counter the growing influence of rival Indian intelligence officials in the area.
This is a pretty shining example of plausible deniability. It's not the agency, it's "individual intel officers," who happen to have enough surplus cash to pay for 700 motorcycles...
ISI officials say that Indian officers have moved into Afghanistan intending to carry out operations across the border in Pakistan. "These officials in Pakistani intelligence believe that the Indian penetration can only be countered if they succeed in creating chaos in the bordering towns in Afghanistan," a Taliban leader said.
We hear about those attacks inside Pakland every day, in fact... No. Wait. Maybe they're hushed up.
Many members of the ISI are also opposed to Pakistan’s support for the war on terror. The agency backed the Taliban in the mid-1990s and senior officials are still closely aligned with them. The Taliban’s negotiations with ISI officials are said to be led by Hamid Aghaf and Mullah Qudratullah Jamal, members of the shura (council) set up by Mullah Mohamed Omar, the Taliban leader, to lead the new jihad against foreign forces and their local allies. Mullah Jamal travelled to Pakistan for talks with ISI officials last month, the Taliban commander said, following up the deal to supply motorbikes, rocket-propelled grenades, Kalashnikov rifles, wireless sets, dozens of satellite phones, torches and radios. Most of the motorcycles are red 125cc Hondas, good at negotiating the rough terrain.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/30/2003 8:24:40 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  When are we going to start taking these folks out?
Posted by: raptor || 11/30/2003 9:20 Comments || Top||

#2  Sounds like some 'individual ISI officers' need to be subjected to some aerial reconnaissance of the hindu kush, sans parachute.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 13:32 Comments || Top||

#3  These ISI guys were doing the same thing with the Taliban even before we went into Afghanistan. Nothing will change until Musharraf will figure that he can purge the ranks of the ISI with these jihadi nutcase aiders and abettors. I wonder if that will ever happen. We are basically fighting our own money that has gone through Saudi Arabia and our own aid to Pakistan that has been siphoned off to these ISI members. This is very frustrating. In a strategic sense, it would be in the long run better to defeat them through starvation, so to speak, than to have to battle them tactically, with higher losses to our forces.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 16:04 Comments || Top||

#4  We need to take a lesson from the Saigon cops, circa 1971. Lots of "cowboys" in Saigon used motorcycles to rip off people, steal things, and just literally make life as miserable as possible for as many people as possible. The Saigon police started using heavy crossbows with about 70 feet of 1/4" nylon rope attached to a piece of bamboo at each end. Shot one end between the spokes, and the other end would stop the rope. "Cowboys" (slang for gang members) would end up eating a piece of concrete, with their bike becoming an added part of them. Didn't stop the activity, but did slow it down, and got rid of a bunch of uglies from the streets. Problem is knowing who to use it against.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Prince Talal afraid Soddy Arabia will be partitioned
Prince Talal bin Abdel-Aziz, half-brother of Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd bin Abdel-Aziz, told the Foreign Press Association in Paris earlier this week that he welcomed the embryonic reform process getting underway in his country, but is worried that recent devastating bomb attacks there were intended to bring down the monarchy.
Oh, no, Mr. Bill!
Prince Talal, president of the Arab Gulf Program for United Nations Development Organizations, expressed his relief that reforms have started to take effect in Saudi Arabia, saying such measures are necessary across most of the Arab region. “I am one of several persons who have been demanding reforms for many years. Therefore, I believe that the hopes and demands of those who have been seeking reforms are now being realized. This is a good thing. Reforms are not required only in Saudi Arabia 
 we are in need of democracy and human rights in most of the Arab countries,” he said.
"But no place quite as much as Soddy Arabia..."
But while welcoming reform, the prince expressed a fear widely held among the Saudi rulers that terror organizations are now directly targeting their hold on power. “Unfortunately, the terrorist operations that have afflicted Saudi Arabia are intended to destabilize the regime,” he said Tuesday.
Rather like Soddy "charities" are intended to destabilize infidel regimes, in fact...
Prince Talal called for those who incite violence to be put on trial, including radical clerics who he named as leading instigators of terror. “One of their theoreticians is a senior sheikh called Sheikh Ali bin Khodeir al-Khodeir, and there is another who goes by the name of Sheikh Nassir ibn Hamad al-Fahd. They had been preaching to these individuals and encouraging them to become terrorists by issuing fatwas (religious rulings) and authoring books to this effect. A few days ago, we were surprised to see these two men retreating from their fatwas. Is the fatwa a game? Does this mean that you can issue a fatwa to shed the blood of people? How many victims fell after they issued these fatwas? How many men, women and children died because of these fatwas? They must stand trial,” he said.
Oh, go ahead. Cut their heads off. You know you want to...
The prince also said the Saudis will turn into human shields to defend their country against any US attempt to partition it.
This is new, at least coming from the Soddies...
Prince Talal claimed Saudi Arabia has come to know through senior US officials that there were plans to partition the region.
Really? That's fascinating. And a damned good idea, if I do say so myself...
Asked whether such reports were mere rumors, Prince Talal replied that US President George W. Bush had said the US should reconsider its relations with countries that do not have democratic government. US Secretary of State Colin Powell has also alluded to a possible reconsideration of the Middle East map, explained the prince.
Scared, little fellow?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 18:44 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well Prince since your country attacked and annexed the "eastern provinces" from Bahrain, you have it coming. I am waiting for such a partition Inshallah
Posted by: Muslim || 11/30/2003 19:04 Comments || Top||

#2  Reminds me of the (true) story of a Soviet general who asked a german prisoner what he thought about the future of Germany. "I think Germany will be cut in many small pieces". "Not Germany, Germans" was the answer of the general.
Posted by: JFM || 11/30/2003 19:11 Comments || Top||

#3  Is the fatwa a game? Does this mean that you can issue a fatwa to shed the blood of people? How many victims fell after they issued these fatwas? How many men, women and children died because of these fatwas?

Where the asshats issuing these Fatwas are taken seriously, these little numbers have been deadly packets.

In the Free Cyber-Space of Rantburg, Fatwas have been an obsession and a source of innocent merriment.

Prince Talal's fear of partition of Saudi Arabia is a bit mild. I think others are using terms, such as "drawn and quartered," to better describe the proposed process.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 19:22 Comments || Top||

#4  AP - I've had many rather nasty thoughts about how to deal with the Soddies over the last few years, most of which were brutal, ugly, and mean. Problem is, I don't think any of them would have any lasting effect except on the immediate victim. The problem is going to be to change the hearts and minds of not only the Soddies, but of most of the Arab world and its border provinces. Unfortunately, we can't build a wall (a la Israel) to contain them all, so we have to be more inventive. To date, I haven't come up with anything that would work on a large enough portion of the population. In the meantime, we'll just have to be content with the tried and true methods of just blowing the living sh$$ out of them. I'm open for ideas and suggestions for other approaches, but they have to at least be equally as effective as "eliminating the mind eliminates the problem".
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 20:42 Comments || Top||

#5  OP, the royals need to undergo a pogrom against the learned clerics that, up till now, have held sway. Once that process is done they can remake the religion into one that is less radicalized. But the current generation is lost. Ignorant people are easily lead. They will believe anything. Off the current leadership and the followers. The royals can save their asses not with the status-quo.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 21:18 Comments || Top||

#6 
plans to partition the region
One can only hope! Soon.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 11/30/2003 23:34 Comments || Top||

#7  this guy wants the nasty clerics put on trial. Sounds like a guy with a sense of cause and effect - is he one of the more sensible royals, I ask the Saudi experts here? And it sounds to me like he is seizing on the partition threat as a club against those royals who think the status quo is acceptable.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 12/01/2003 11:07 Comments || Top||


Qatar Expected to be Next Target for Al Qaida
From Middle East Newsline
The United States expects Qatar to be the next target for Al Qaida.
Next step for the Al Qaida Plan "Operation Piss-off the Hornets"
Arab diplomatic sources said the U.S. military and government have been increasing security measures in Qatar amid concerns that Al Qaida plans a series of strikes in the emirate.
Saves Al-Jezeera’s travel budget.
The sources said the United States has obtained evidence of an Al Qaida sleeper cell in Qatar and has collected communications among insurgency operatives that refer to Doha as the next target of attack. Qatar has been deemed as among the most pro-U.S. Gulf Arab state in the region. The emirate allowed itself to become a major base of military operations during the U.S.-led war in Iraq. The London-based Asharq Al Awsat daily said that Washington’s determination has resulted in a U.S. reassessment of Qatar as a venue for regional meetings. The newspaper said on Monday that Washington appears prepared to move a scheduled session on Islamic curriculum from Doha to Egypt. The meeting has been scheduled for Dec. 13 and plans to last five days.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 6:09:13 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This would be poetic justice - given Qatar's funding of Al Jazeera. I'll have to learn to ululate, just so I can do it after I hear about the attack.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 11/30/2003 18:51 Comments || Top||

#2  This would be poetic justice - given Qatar's funding of Al Jazeera. I'll have to learn to ululate, just so I can do it after I hear about the attack.

That's assuming this is once again an attack against Arabs, given the considerable difficulty of getting to large numbers of Americans.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 11/30/2003 18:54 Comments || Top||

#3  I do not think that ululating would be appropriate if Qatar was hit by a terrorist attack. The arabs are going to have to realize that nobody is safe from these nutcases, and they cannot ignore it and hope that it goes away. Al Qaeda is changing its tactics as they have suffered some significant hits from the West that have hurt them. We are all in this together. The sooner the muslim world realizes this the safer they (and we) will become.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 19:37 Comments || Top||

#4  AP, Zhang,
I agree. It is time the arabs (and malayians, pakistani, etc....) realize that you just cannot take the viper Al-Qaida and all other terrorist organizations to your chest and not expect to be bitten by them.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2003 21:41 Comments || Top||

#5  you just cannot take the viper Al-Qaida and all other terrorist organizations to your chest and not expect to be bitten by them.

Yeah, but they need some venom in the eyes and a snakebite to the test-eye-kils before they REALLY learn their lesson.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 21:55 Comments || Top||


Saudis willing to help if...
EFL - as they say, the Arab News is its own satire
Imperial Majesty
Amr Mohammed Al-Faisal

I watched... the little skit set up for President Bush this Thanksgiving in Baghdad... He had slunk in under heavy secrecy lest some enterprising Iraqi insurgents lob some donkey-borne rockets freedom’s way and thereby spoil the photo-op. Then, after two and half “whole” hours, the president slunk back out of Iraq.
... assertions of various kinds...about how the US is losing and desparately needs to withdraw its troops..., etc.
The conditions that must be met before we lift a finger to help the Americans get out of Iraq honorably are the following:
...
Administration officials starting with President Bush himself must spare no occasion to praise Saudi Arabia and inform the American people how lucky they are to have us as allies.
Posted by: mhw || 11/30/2003 9:59:13 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  heh heh - this was from The Onion, right? Saudis don't seem to realize they went on the endangered species list...
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Google on the author's name to get a good picture of what this vile slimebag is all about.

When American tanks roll into Riyadh sometime in 2005 or 2006, this guy's severed head is going to end up on a pike.

"Now, dear readers, you mustn’t laugh at the Americans; remember they are our friends and allies."

Oh, no we're not, bunky; we're your worst nightmare. We're busting our stones to turn Iraq into a modern, prosperous, secular state out of a belief that the Iraqi people have potential.

You, on the other hand, do not. With you, it will be a simple war of extermination.
Posted by: Dave D. || 11/30/2003 10:21 Comments || Top||

#3  I do believe they're beginning to believe we're less than friendly.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/30/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||

#4  I still, somehow, no matter how hard I try, can't find them less than arrogant. It's never good to be arrogant without artillery.
Posted by: Fred || 11/30/2003 13:07 Comments || Top||

#5  As Alaska Paul has noted several times, you can drill through a country-wide sheet of fused sand and bits of arrogant Saudis glass for oil
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 13:09 Comments || Top||

#6  But what would that do to our extraction costs?
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 13:15 Comments || Top||

#7  Matt

The extraction costs would be a LOT smaller than the cost of WOT
Posted by: JFM || 11/30/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#8  We need to start selling the Saudis rope - in large rolls! That'll make it easier to hang all the members of the "Royal" family and the suck-ups that aid and abet them when it's time to clean that portion of the Sandlot Kingdom.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 15:01 Comments || Top||

#9  ....keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer.

and by the way faisal - thats two hours longer than your fat privledged ass has spent in Iraq. I wonder if hes noticed that theres nothing between his pimply prince butt sitting in his apartment in Riyhad and our troops in Kuwait except sand and camel turds. I wonder if hes noticed the rapid speed that our troops were able to master desert warfare. Does he really think the Arabs will stand and fight for the house of Saud?
Posted by: frank martin || 11/30/2003 15:39 Comments || Top||

#10  All I can say is that the Saudis better get their Pakistani flyboy contractors up to speed quickly, along with their Nuke umbrella deployed (against bloody what???!!!) and their Syrian hard boy special forces surrounding the cholestoral royal palaces.

Talk is cheap for the Saudi big boys. The reality is that the US is rapidly phasing out of SA, the world is adjusting to the coming reality of being without SA oil for a while.

The times are changing, and the changes will be accellerating in the coming months. The boll weevils Al Qaeda have started destroying their food source, and I predict that the landscape is going to be very turbulant in the next year. Faisal's little rant will become a Saudi dirge.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 16:17 Comments || Top||

#11  This guy sounds like Ferdinand Marcos.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 22:56 Comments || Top||


Yemen defends anti-terror record but won’t share al-Ahdal
While Sanaa has staunchly defended its cooperation in the global war on terror, a security official said that it will not succumb to US pressure and share its prized catch: Al Qaeda’s Yemen leader. “The United States has been exerting pressure on Yemeni authorities to allow them to interrogate Adhal directly, but this has been refused,” the Yemeni official told AFP on Saturday. On Friday, the interior ministry confirmed it arrested Tuesday Mohammed Hamdi al-Ahdal, alias Abu Issam al-Makki, whom they believe to be the top figure in the country’s branch of Osama bin Laden’s terror network. The ministry said it had nabbed Saudi-born Ahdal in a sting operation in Sanaa, after a cohort of Ahdal was arrested in early November. “Hedi Dalqam, an Al Qaeda activist was arrested at the start of November,” the official said describing him as a “colleague” of Ahdal. Yemeni authorities believe Ahdal replaced Ali Qaed Sunian al-Harithi, alias Abu Ali al-Harithi after the former Al Qaeda Yemen chief was killed with five others in a November 2002 missile attack by the US Central Intelligence Agency in the desert region of al-Naqaa in Marib province, east of Sanaa.

But a London-based Saudi newspaper said Thursday that some US officials “doubt the truth of announcements made by Sanaa regarding anti-terror operations.” Asharq Al-Awsat also said, “some US weapons sold to the Yemeni government were smuggled to Saudi terrorists.” This prompted a sharp rebuke by Yemeni authorities Friday who slammed the “false” newspaper report aimed at misleading “world opinion over Yemen’s serious and decisive position in fighting terror and undermining the growing relations between Yemen, Saudi Arabia and the United States.”

“Yemen will not succumb to any form of blackmail irrespective of its nature and source,” said an interior ministry official quoted by the country’s official news agency Saba. The United States said last week that it was in the process of ”confirming” Ahdal’s arrest, adding that he may have been involved in the October 2000 attack against the USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden. As proof of Yemen’s commitment to the fight against terror, the official said Ahdal’s arrest was announced “four hours” after it took place Tuesday. He also said cooperation between Yemen and Saudi Arabia in the fight against terror was on the rise following the signing of an agreement between the two countries in June to boost security measures at the border to prevent arms smuggling and infiltration. The official said Yemen handed over to Saudi Arabia at the end of October a group of 10 failed Saudi asylum seekers, including the body of one that died in hospital, but did not say if the group was wanted by Saudi authorities in connection with recent attacks there.

Yemen is bin Laden’s ancestral homeland and is viewed as a hotbed of lunacy militants who fought so-called holy wars in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Chechnya. Its government has been under pressure from Washington since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks on the United States to crack down on suspected Al Qaeda militants, and has arrested dozens of them. Saudi Arabia and Yemen have recently been swapping fugitives under an extradition agreement. On September 17, Saudi said Yemen handed over Bandar bin Abdurrahman al-Ghamdi, a chief suspect in the May 12 suicide bombings in Riyadh that left 35 people dead.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 11/30/2003 2:30:20 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Anybody have a take on this article? Could it be that Yemen is saying in public that it won't allow US access to al-Ahdal, but privately allowing the US to interrogate him?
Posted by: Mark || 11/30/2003 13:44 Comments || Top||


Europe
Syrians hand over 22 suspects to Turkey
Fox News reports that Syria has handed over 22 suspects in the Istanbooms to Turkey. Nothing on the wires yet...

Here's the AP report, not that there's much more...
Syria handed over 22 suspects to Turkey on Sunday in connection with four recent suicide bombings in Istanbul, the semi-official Anatolia news agency reported. The suspects -- all Turks -- reportedly fled the country after the attacks, which killed 61 people.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 13:05 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Syria's been on the Turkish shitlist for a while... they must be feeling the pincers close from Iraq, Turkey, and Israel
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 13:20 Comments || Top||

#2  "Hand 'em over."
"No."
*click click*
"OK OK! How many? Which ones? Errr... just say when!"
Posted by: Pete Stanley || 11/30/2003 14:33 Comments || Top||

#3  Syria is surrounded on three sides by governments pissed off by their little terrorist harboring game. They only have their route to the Med now to get to their sugar daddies in Saudi Arabia. Check out the map here.

So whether or not the Turks like it, they are now helping on the WoT by putting the heat on Syria. A Syria on the defensive is a good Syria.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#4  I was just looking at the map I linked above. I wonder how much communication, commerce, covert activity travels between Saudi Arabia and Syria through Jordan. In other words, how porous is that border? Anybody have any info or thoughts on the subject?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 18:25 Comments || Top||

#5  The Syrians are running scared. You better believe they can look at a map. It's a good bet that the Turks gave them the word: notice whose on your eastern border? Good friends of ours and they're real pissed at you.

This is also very typical behavior for them. When they're afraid they suddenly get real cooperative in the WoT. We should keep them very, very afraid.
Posted by: RMcLeod || 11/30/2003 23:18 Comments || Top||


Greece OKs military training for Moldova
Greece has signed an agreement to train and help modernize the Moldavian military. The project will seek to upgrade the Moldavian military to NATO standards. The military cooperation accord was recently signed in Athens by Greek Defense Minister Yiannos Papantoniou and his Moldavian counterpart Victor Caiciuc. Under the agreement, Greece will help Moldavia organize, train and modernize its military.
Greece? They want Greece to organize, train and modernize their military?
Officials said the Greek effort aims to bring Moldavia into NATO. All of the Greek training and upgrade will be in acordance with NATO standards. Papantoniou said Greece supports the accession of Moldavia into the European Union.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:56 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  There's actually some historical ties between Greece and Moldavia that go way back -- in 1821, the war of independence that ended up freeing Greece from Ottoman rule -- that revolution was first proclaimed in Moldavia.

Even though the Moldavia-Wallachia front of that revolution was crushed by the Ottomans, ofcourse, leaving only the revolution that took place in Greek soil victorious.

---

Other than that historical trivia, I'm not sure what's the game being played here.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/30/2003 12:54 Comments || Top||

#2  I suspect Greek aspirations to dominance in the Balkans, probably. But how does this play against Greek relations with Russia, and Russian pressure on Moldova?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 12/01/2003 11:15 Comments || Top||


Turkey's military plans to reform ground forces
Turkey's General Staff plans to reform the structure of the military's ground forces. Officials said the restructuring is based on lessons from the U.S.-led war in Iraq. They said the effort would seek to form smaller and more mobile units that are interoperable with other services. Turkey has one of the largest militaries in the Middle East with 470,000 soldiers. The Land Forces Command is the largest unit with more than 300,000 troops. Officials said the reforms were part of plans to reduce the size of Turkey's military. Under the plans announced in August, Turkey would eliminate thousands of command and staff positions and merge units, particularly in the Land Forces Command.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:54 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What's the unemployment like in Turkey? If they cut a bunch of people and don't have jobs for them, it would seem to be a breeding ground for ready-trained terrorist.
Posted by: SamIII || 11/30/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||


Muslim Cleric Deported From Italy Says He Met Bin Laden
A Senegalese Muslim cleric deported from Italy as a danger to state security was quoted Sunday as telling a pan-Arab newspaper that he had met three times with Osama bin Laden. The cleric, Abdel Qadir Mamour, told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat in an interview by telephone from Dakar, Senegal, that he had the meetings with bin Laden in Sudan during 1993-1996. Mamour said bin Laden had provided money to finance his trading in diamonds between Africa and Belgium, but did not say how much money was involved or if bin Laden was involved in the business.
Now, what do you think?
Mamour angered Italian authorities by saying in an earlier interview that Italian soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq would be attacked, as well as Italian diplomats, because Italy was aiding the U.S.-led military presence. His statement followed the Nov. 12 car bomb at the Italian barracks in Nasiriyah, Iraq, that killed 19 Italians. He was deported to Senegal in mid-November. In his interview with Asharq Al-Awsat, Mamour said Italian authorities deported him because they found at his home some CD-ROMs contained the wills of four suicide attackers in a bombing in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in May. Mamour was quoted as saying he got the tapes from a fundamentalist Muslim in London so they could be distributed in Europe. He did not name the man who sent the tapes.
"Not mine. Somebody gave 'em to me..."
Mamour said he also met in Sudan with bin Laden’s top aides including Mohammed Atef, also known as Abu Hafs al-Masri, who was pulverized killed in a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan in November 2001. Mamour said his Italian wife and five children saved him from being sent to the U.S. base in Guantanamo, Cuba. He said the Senegalese authorities kept him under house arrest and interrogated him for four days. Asharq Al-Awsat said that when Mamour was asked by the interviewer to name his religious leader, he answered without hesitation: "Osama bin Laden."
Posted by: TS || 11/30/2003 11:13:03 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Turkey charges key synagogue blast suspect
Turkey has charged a man it says played a central role in the bombing of Beth Israel synagogue in Istanbul, officials said on Sunday. Yusuf Polat was charged on Saturday with attempting to violently overthrow the constitutional order, the most serious charge so far laid against any of those detained over the Istanbul attacks.
Breakout the truncheons!
Turkey's Anatolia news agency said that searches in a residence used by Polat uncovered material used in making the kind of bomb detonated at the Beth Israel synagogue. Deputy Istanbul Police Chief, Halil Yilmaz, said Polat had been to the Beth Israel site on the day of the bombing and gave the final order for the attack.
"Well, Yusuf. Let's talk..."
Meanwhile, the suicide bomber who detonated a truck bomb outside the offices of British-based banking giant HSBC in Istanbul, has been formally identified by DNA testing, Anatolia said on Sunday. The man, whose remains were analysed at the Istanbul Forensic Medicine Institute and compared with the DNA of his relatives, was identified as Melvut Ugur, Anatolia reported.
"Yep. That's his lip. No doubt about it..."
The identification led to several arrests of the bomber's family members, it added.
"Round up the usual lips... suspects!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:09 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Turkey bombs mastermind Azad Ekinci ’is still alive’.
EFL
Turkish intelligence officials believe that the mastermind behind the wave of suicide bombings in Istanbul, who was said to have died in the attack on the HSBC bank building, is in fact still at large and planning further attacks on British interests.
"I thought that was his lip?"
"It looked like his lip!"
"Well, whose lip was it?"
A terrorist alert issued last week by the Milli Istihbarat Teskilati (MIT), Turkey’s equivalent of MI5, identifies Azad Ekinci as the key figure in the attacks and warns that his group still has as many as seven specially adapted trucks that could be used in further attacks. The alert was issued after DNA tests on remains recovered from the HSBC building failed to corroborate reports that Ekinci - whose remains were apparently buried during a funeral service last week - was among the four suicide bombers. "Ekinci is alive and he is the main player," one MIT official said.
"And some other sap's got his headstone..."
Western intelligence agencies have warned that terrorist cells from the Bingol region in eastern Turkey are active across Europe. "We’re putting increased scrutiny on the diaspora from Bingol," a senior Whitehall official said. The Foreign Office infuriated the Turkish prime minister, Tayyip Recep Erdogan, last week by warning that another attack on the British community in Ankara was imminent. British intelligence officials have, however, told the government that there is little confidence that MIT or the Turkish police will be able to stop another attack. "What is alarming is that the Turks are slightly muddled by this threat," said the official. "They don’t even know how many trucks the bombers may have." At a meeting between American and Turkish intelligence officials in September, the Turks had reported that the Great Eastern Islamic Raiders Front and Hezbollah, two groups with which the suicide bombers have been linked, had been rendered toothless by an official crackdown. It was a view attributed to Abdulkadir Aksu, the Turkish interior minister, who has been close to Islamic militants since the 1980s.
"Close" to them? As interior minister, I'd expect something a little less... cozy.
British embassies in Sofia, the Bulgarian capital, and Berlin tightened security last week, installing concrete blast barriers and asking for more police patrols. In Germany, a suspected al-Qaeda member was arrested as a result of the warnings. MIT officials say the bombers joined Turkish Hezbollah as schoolboys and Azad Ekinic and Mesut Cabuk travelled to Pakistan in the mid-1990s for training. Hundreds of Turkish migrants have been trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan, seeing action in Bosnia and Chechnya. According to neighbours in Bingol, Ekinic, 29, was an antisocial individual who was devoted to his mother, a closeness fostered in the wake of his father’s murder by leftist guerrillas during the Kurdish independence insurgency. Two weeks before the bomb attacks he had travelled to Dubai to meet other members of al-Qaeda.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/30/2003 8:10:42 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


India-Pakistan
Ulema to be asked to teach moderate Islam
President General Pervez Musharraf will speak his mind in a rare face-to-face encounter with nearly 100 leading Ulema on his "enlightened moderation" and worldview for the Ummah on December 4. No fireworks are in store during the heart-to-heart talk as the list of clerics has been carefully drawn from all over the country. A predominant majority of the Ulema, attending the conference, is expected to share the president’s views on the enlightened moderation while adhering to the sacred religion of Islam and will feel no hesitation in publicly supporting him on this count.
I guess Qazi, Fazl and Sami aren't invited...
The president will be trying to give a message to the religious lobby in particular that the Ulema should not preach radicalism and extremism as this has damaged the Muslims as well as Islam, an official indicated to The News.
Going to get a few regimes changed, too...
Musharraf will attempt to impress upon the religious leaders and scholars to follow and teach a moderate image of Islam. He will once again make it clear that his policies are not targeted against the religion or Muslims. Rather his advocacy of enlightened moderation at domestic and world forums have been appreciated by the Muslim countries. The president would lay stress on curbing elements, bringing a bad name to Islam and the Muslims. The president will allocate a substantial chunk of his discourse with the clerics to the reforms the government is pursuing in bringing the "Madaris" in the mainstream educational system so that those who have studied at these institutions could compete with those who have been educated at other educational organisations.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 18:56 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The president will allocate a substantial chunk of his discourse with the clerics to the reforms the government is pursuing in bringing the "Madaris" in the mainstream educational system so that those who have studied at these institutions could compete with those who have been educated at other educational organisations.

And how, pray tell, will will the madrasses alumni be able to compete with their hate and spittle courses with people who have studied marketing and the laws of physics? This should be interesting. This heart-to-heart talk between Perv and the 100 leading Ulema has all the markings of a mad hatter's tea party. Pakistan has a long way to go.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 19:30 Comments || Top||


Iraq
U.S. Forces Kill 46 Iraqis During Ambush
American forces killed 46 Iraqis and captured eight others Sunday who were trying to ambush them in the central part of the country. American troops were fighting off simultaneous attacks in the northern part of the country, the U.S. military said. "The 4th Infantry Division repelled multiple ambush attacks," Reuters news service quoted Lt. Col. William MacDonald as saying to reporters. MacDonald said at least 18 attackers, five U.S. soldiers and a civilian were injured, Reuters reported. There were no other details immediately available. The news comes just after another round of violence targeted the coalition in Iraq over the weekend.
Shot the crap out of them, huh? I like it!
Posted by: snellenr || 11/30/2003 4:10:13 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sounds like they might have been tipped off early about this 'ambush' and turned the tables. Money Talks , as they say. Appears that $87 billion is being put to good use buying info.

These guys are trying to ambush patrols in platoon strength, 50+ mutts lying in wait? I'd be interested to find out how many were ex-iraqi 'soldiers'. Must be some of the Ee-lite Republican Guards who enjoy dying for saddam so much. I'm sure the 4th is glad to oblige them.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||

#2  How's this for a headline from al-Reuters:

"U.S. Forces Say Kill 46 Iraqis Trying to Ambush Them"

I guess the fact that we KILLED ALL 46 is just a minor detail.

p.s.

Why the hell isn't Drudge all over this story? He's got an alert siren at the top of his page about Roy Disney retiring. Who the hell is Roy Disney and why should I care?
Posted by: g wiz || 11/30/2003 16:50 Comments || Top||

#3  OMG, this one really takes the cake from the BBC:

"US 'kills dozens' in Iraqi city"
Posted by: g wiz || 11/30/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Hmmmm, the convoy was transporting a rather large sum of money. Think the baathist/fedayeen are just showing their true stripes as nothing more but bandits? Apparently carrying new iraqi notes. Sounds like an inside job, maybe?
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 16:54 Comments || Top||

#5  You know that it is hard to maintain objectivity when it comes to our forces (our meaning the US and its allies) and the propaganda headlines put out by the mainstream press. They are not as bad as Baghdad Bob (a truly class act, heh heh), but their constant spin is going to attrit them as we are doing to the Iraqi and foreign hardcases in Iraq. Bush maintains the focus and with patience and perserverence we will prevail. And there are alot of jihadis that are never heard from again after they left for Iraq. Spin that one, Rooters.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 17:00 Comments || Top||

#6  There should be more success stories like this. Forgive me but until now it seemed Americans were just easy targets. Learn the lessons that the Russians did in Chechnya! I bet you one of the would-be-ambushers was filming the whole thing, as they do in Chechnya. Unleash hell on these mutts!!!
Posted by: Rafael || 11/30/2003 17:16 Comments || Top||

#7  Why the hell isn't Drudge all over this story?

Drudge would rather be on the E! channel than on a news network.

From what's being reported, sounds like the mutts tried to pull some diversionary ambushes at the same time as this one. It sounds more and more like a failed attempt to steal the iraqi dinars the convoy was carrying. That means, of course, that they had to know when and where and what convoy was going to be doing the transport. Incredible that they thought they could pull it off with 50 guys armed with small arms. I guess they've been reading the American press reports about how soft and vulnerable our troops were, nothing but sitting ducks that a few dozen thugs could have their way with. They got a little hell unleashed, alright. High explosive and full metal jacket type, right on their heads.
Posted by: 4thInfVet || 11/30/2003 17:23 Comments || Top||

#8  Anonymous __ as far as who, the CNN news article on it. says some of the attackers were waring the black uniforms worn by Saddamn's Fedayeen
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/30/2003 17:35 Comments || Top||

#9  Alaska Paul: I don't know what headlines you were reading, but the report I just watched on Fox was pure anxious hand-wringing, fretting, and bullshit speculation by armchair generals pontificating on the "meaning" of the fact that the vermin were wearing Fedayeen Saddam costumes.

I'm about ready to write off ALL television news, Fox included. Defeatist idiots, all.

Sheesh...
Posted by: Dave D. || 11/30/2003 17:38 Comments || Top||

#10  Dave,

I was watching Fox about an hour ago and one of the talking heads they had on was a reporter for US News & World Report. They asked him of the significance of the event and he just started running down all of the Democrat talking points. The May 1st speech with the Mission Accomplished banner, the Thanksgiving "photo op" as a relection tactic, etc. Not a word about what actually happened TODAY. And the dimwit host didn't call him on his BS, just moved on to the next talking head. Sigh...
Posted by: g wiz || 11/30/2003 17:54 Comments || Top||

#11  Rafael:
I bet you one of the would-be-ambushers was filming the whole thing, as they do in Chechnya.

The Iraqi terrorists have attached French camera crews. The Chechen terrorists aren't popular enough, so they've had to field organic camera units.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/30/2003 17:59 Comments || Top||

#12  The fedayeen are stupid to attack the 4th ID when they are massed in any numbers at all. Those guys have the best command and control equipment and training in the Army. From the CNN report on tv a few minutes ago, it sounds like there were 2 simultaneous attacks on 2 convoys, both in Samarah, and the 4th responded with immediate and devastating firepower, including Abrams tanks and Bradleys. Several buildings sheltering the fedayeen were demolished into rubble with the attackers inside.
Posted by: rkb || 11/30/2003 18:32 Comments || Top||

#13  Is it likely that the cash cargo of the convoy was deliberately made known to the bad guys, so as to draw them in to be chewed up by M1s and Bradleys? I've been wondering since July whether we were using any guile in dealing with these problems. Several tactics come to mind -- drawing attention to a particular convoy, while back-up, helo, and UAV recon are ready to observe and engage. Other tactics also seem worth trying: contaminating weapons caches with trace-able substances and seeing whose hands/households test positive during spot checks; falsifying "resistance" leaflets to falsely raise expectations, threaten popular local figures, and otherwise discredit the bad guys. I just hope we're fully exploiting our many tools and being as devious in our counter-insurgency tactics as we are being flexible in our civil affairs approach.

As to media: Dave and gee whiz, can only echo your cry of anguish on how pathetic much TV coverage is, especially this problem of dimwit journalists (an astouningly high %, judging by what we see) not being challenged on their BS hosts.

Another public info note: today's body count is 46; that probably equals or exceeds the sum total of all bad-guy KIAs reported TO DATE in Iraq. Hasn't everyone noticed since the summer that accounts of attacks are telegraphic, just a few lines, # of US casualties, weapon used, location? Almost never any info on US forces' response, final score, etc. Nothing. I can literally only recall TWO other stories in 4 months of attacks that contained any info on US response and enemy losses.

Whatever's behind it -- intel strategy, V'Nam body count paranoia, whatever -- CENTCOM/CPA should have realized by now that the war is being covered/debated in a very distorted manner, and making enemy losses top secret abets distortion.

One last thing: has anyone else noticed that enemy "sophistication" has been "rising" since July, according to standard language in news reports? By now, the enemy should be flying stealth aircraft and using submarines against our forces, what with their "sophistication" growing relentlessly. Somehow, foolishly attacking an armored column with small arms and being vaporized, and steadily moving to attack non-military targets with car bombs, don't strike me as evidence of increasing "sophistication," but familiar incompetence and desperate adaptation.
Posted by: IceCold || 11/30/2003 18:35 Comments || Top||

#14  Hell, we should be spiking weapons caches with exploding ammo. Screw this 'fingerprint' noise, let them drop a round in their mortar and have it blow up, killing every dipshit terrorist standing there. If a few AKs blow some fingers off, or RPGs take off some heads, there'll be some 2nd thoughts about squeezing off some rounds at the Great Satan©.
Posted by: 4thInfVet || 11/30/2003 18:56 Comments || Top||

#15  IceCold: Yeah, I've noticed that new "rising sophistication" theme, too.

My greatest fear in this whole thing? That these media morons are going to talk us right into giving up the fight with their nonstop hand-wringing. And all because (a) they're ignorant about military matters, and (b) they can't resist the urge to fill their airtime with bullshit speculation.

At this point I'd almost prefer a total news blackout.
Posted by: Dave D. || 11/30/2003 19:12 Comments || Top||

#16  Jalai al-Feydayeen...for the sake of Allah (pbuh) how many times must I tell you? Attack only the SOFT targets! Have you learned nothing from our Palestinian brothers? If you strike targets that strike back then you endanger the success of the jihad. When you confront the enemy head on limit yourself to women, children, and the UN. The infidel is most vulnerable when his back is turned.
Posted by: Mark || 11/30/2003 19:19 Comments || Top||

#17  Heh.
Posted by: rkb || 11/30/2003 19:34 Comments || Top||

#18  #7 Dave D.---Re: #9 comment. The administration, centcom, etc., have to be more agressive in their propaganda war. It is sort of similar to the Republican's tepid responses to the Dems roasting on a spit the federal court nominees. They need to get mean and agressive, and especially contradict the press when they are distorted, misrepresenting facts, and spinning things to their agenda. The mainstream press is doing this because nobody calls them on it. They need some truth shoved up their collective asses.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 19:53 Comments || Top||

#19  The Iraqi terrorists have attached French camera crews.

How fitting.
Posted by: g wiz || 11/30/2003 20:08 Comments || Top||

#20  Check this out from Daily Kos. The angry leftoids are at it already:

"The truth is starting to come out, most of those 46 were innocent bystanders in buildings near to or on which the Feedayen were shooting from. Like the 12 and 15 year old sisters killed as terrorists."

and...

"The 4th ID - whatta surprise! I bet that a gross majority will end up being confirmed innocent bystanders, a 4th ID specialty."

The news of today's success has spoiled their thread gloating about the recent deaths of US allies.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/11/30/194147/55
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 20:29 Comments || Top||

#21  Why not Fedyeen uniforms - think back to the drive to Bagdad all those short haircuts in civies and all those clothes by the side of the road.

For sale cheap " Spiffy black uniform - only dropped once"
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/30/2003 22:06 Comments || Top||

#22  I am beginning to suspect that the administration is once again deliberately playing down success, even in the face of apparently horrible headlines, so that when success finally emerges, all of its critics look like killjoys and bad losers in the bargain. This is just GWB setting up yet another ambush for his critics.

Note that I don't think the casualties could have been avoided - Saddam has tens of thousands of combatants on his side - with some real hard cases among them. Bottom line is that we were going to take casualties, but the situation is nowhere near as bad as the pessimists or outright Bush opponents would have them. Every insurgency worth its name has taken years to put down (Greece, the Philippines, Malaya, Indonesia, etc). Iraq is no different. If the terrorists are completely wiped out in less than 2 years, this will be one of the shortest guerrilla wars on record.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 11/30/2003 23:59 Comments || Top||


Today's crummiest Rooters headline...
Bush Tries Morale Boost as More Troops Die in Iraq
President Bush, fresh from a whirlwind trip to Iraq to boost the morale of troops, tried on Saturday to do the same for the soldiers' families who are worried about their loved ones. November was the deadliest month for U.S. troops in Iraq with 72 soldiers killed, the most since March when the war to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein began. Bush declared major combat operations over in Iraq on May 1, but since then, 185 U.S. soldiers have been killed in combat or guerrilla attacks.
These guys go out of their way to write this sort of stuff...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 13:11 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Reuters: Putting "Spin" Ahead of "Profit" and "Journalism"
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Hey! Maybe we should start a 'Most Yellow act of Journalism' award to be given to the 'serious media' for the most biased and 'Yellow' act of journalism. We can have a 'News Service' division, a 'Print' division, 'Sattilite TV' division, and 'Local Channel' division.

Catagories:
* Most Blantant lie of the year
* Most Inaccutate
* Most Biased - Liberal
* Most Biased - Conservative
* Most Biased - Ecological
* Most Biased - Animal Rights
* Most Biased - Religious Faith
etc...

Tabloids would be disqualifed.

The problem is what do we give as an award? A yellow-stained roll of toilet paper?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2003 13:31 Comments || Top||

#3  CrazyFool - unless you're Bill Gates, you'd quickly run out of money for the TP.
Posted by: PBMcL || 11/30/2003 13:42 Comments || Top||

#4  Reuters: Putting "Spin" Ahead of "Profit" and "Journalism"

The news division is the most well-known, but also the most unprofitable. Reuters's bread-and-butter is financial news and electronic trading. Recently, the British news chief was replaced with an American. Note that the tone has not changed one whit, meaning that the new guy agrees with whatever went on before.

The good news is that Reuters's margins are getting slammed by competition from Bloomberg, both in financial data and electronic trading, where Bloomberg is expanding in leaps and bounds. In a matter of years, Reuters will either close its news division or shut down altogether, as its slipping financial markets-related products prove unable to subsidize its moribund news division.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 11/30/2003 15:02 Comments || Top||

#5  General Electric annonced this week the creation of a new generator unit to be placed on the heads of journalists to capture the estimated 5 terawatts of electrical power that could be generated annually from headspinning.
Posted by: frank martin || 11/30/2003 15:41 Comments || Top||

#6  Presumably, Reuters has an organization in the states. I think Bush is missing a bet by not making them register as an agent of a foreign (and hostile) power. Then every Rooters article could carry the disclaimer " Reuters is a regeristered agent of the people who want to kill you."
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/30/2003 17:55 Comments || Top||

#7  Mercutio -- I think most news organizations would have to register in that way. Remember the NYC TV stations who raced to see who could remove the American flag from their sets fastest?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/30/2003 18:01 Comments || Top||


Iraq TV needs coalition's permission
Existing radio and television stations in Iraq as well as the new ones in order to broadcast their programs should obtain permission from the US-led occupying coalition forces. All the radio and television stations which are broadcasting or scheduled to begin activity in Iraq should apply for permission to the centers of coalition forces throughout the country by the end of this year, read a statement issued by the coalition forces here on Saturday. The coalition forces warned that broadcasting stations would be prevented from carrying out their activities in Iraq if they do not obtain permission in time. Some radio and television stations are now active in Iraq without any permission, the statement added.
My guess would be that they want to take control of channel assignments. There are only so many of them...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:50 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  We will win their hearts and minds with HD TV with all Minerets all the time.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/30/2003 12:13 Comments || Top||

#2  Also, provide that only Iraqi men can touch the remote.
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 13:15 Comments || Top||

#3  I'd like to see Free-Iranian TV broadcast 24/7 into mullah-land. Foment the revolt!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||


Spain, Japan pledge to defy terror
Slightly EFL
Spain’s prime minister has vowed to keep troops in Iraq despite "great pain" at the killing of seven intelligence agents in an ambush. "Freedom is under threat from the terrorists," said Jose Maria Aznar, whose country is a key European member of the US-led coalition in Iraq. Japan, which lost two diplomats in a separate ambush near Tikrit, has also pledged "not to give in to terrorism". Mr Aznar brushed aside Spanish opposition demands for troops to be withdrawn, declaring that his country would "fulfil its commitments". The intelligence agents had, he said, "lost their lives doing their duty as professional soldiers, good soldiers working for peace and security". The officers’ eight-man convoy was ambushed near the town of Hilla, as it returned from a mission. Only one man survived. Spain has 1,300 troops serving with the Polish-led multinational contingent in the south of the country. In Tokyo, Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said his country would continue to meet its "responsibilities for humanitarian aid and reconstruction" "Japan must not give in to terrorism," he told reporters. "Why does this kind of thing happen?" he continued, visibly upset. "I am furious."

In a third ambush, a Colombian contractor was killed and two wounded. The contractors’ car came under fire near the town of Balad on Saturday, US army spokesman Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said on Sunday in Baghdad. Two US soldiers were killed in a rocket-propelled grenade attack near the Syrian border on Saturday, while unconfirmed reports say two South Koreans were wounded in a roadside attack on Sunday.
Welcome to FundoWorld.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/30/2003 10:44:59 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Japan would be a *bad* enemy to make. They are starting to wake up to the problems on their doorstep with the Norks and ChiComs and now this.

Could Japan do a 'Reagan' do you think? Massively ramp up military expenditure (would this lurch their economy out of the doldrums do you think?) and start deploying 'stand-off' weapons and ABM systems to keep the Norks and ChiComs off-balance?
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 11/30/2003 11:25 Comments || Top||

#2  The two Koreans are confirmed dead by Foxnews.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 11:34 Comments || Top||


Task Force “All American” continued to conduct operations
During the past 24 hours, the 82nd Airborne Division and subordinate units have conducted five offensive operations, including 1 raid and four cordon and searches. Soldiers also conducted 168 patrols, including five joint patrols with the Iraqi Border Guard and Iraqi police. During these operations, one enemy was killed and nine were captured.

In 1st Brigade, 1st Infantry Division’s area of responsibility, elements of the 1st Engineer Battalion observed three individuals in an ammo supply point southwest of Khalidiyah. The guards engaged the personnel with direct fire, killing one of the three while losing site (sic) of the other two. The unit requested 155mm illumination rounds and then reacquired the remaining two personnel who were immediately captured and taken in for questioning.

In the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment’s (3rd ACR) area of responsibility, Operation Rifles Blitz continued. Troopers established three checkpoints and conducted numerous dismounted and mounted patrols in the Al Qaim area. These patrols resulted in the capture of two enemy personnel. These missions incorporated both the Iraqi police and recent ICDC graduates during execution. Additionally at Trebil on the Jordanian border, we refused entry into Iraq to 181 personnel because they had no passports or documentation.

Civil military operations were given a boost throughout the area with a Japanese Delegation’s visit over the past two days. These teams have received tentative approval for approximately $4 million in projects for Al Anbar. Civil Affairs personnel met with local officials in Al Karmah to review plans for restoring a water pump in the area. The project will provide a supply of potable water and be completed on 26 December at a cost of $6,200. Teams also met with local officials in An Nukhayb to finalize payment on the police station’s renovation. Repairs began on 12 November and will be completed by 2 December at a cost of $15,000.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/30/2003 10:06:16 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Additionally at Trebil on the Jordanian border, we refused entry into Iraq to 181 personnel because they had no passports or documentation.

Be interesting to note their ages, sex, attitude, etc. and whether they were tourists (like Dean's brother) or Madrassah students or just plain ordinary Egyptians looking for work:)
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 11/30/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||


Bush in bazaar
This is an interesting developement, which gives me some confidence. The first bit, in a long time, I might add. Hopefully, Bush’s no-nonsense approach will break a lot of impassses, and carry the day.
President Bush’s drop-in to Baghdad for American Thanksgiving has been rightly reported as a propaganda stunt — a good one, building morale among beleaguered and homesick U.S. forces, and giving America itself a self-confident boost. But his principal accomplishment during the two-and-a-half hours he was on the ground has gone mostly below radar. In a brief meeting with four senior and representative members of the provisional Iraqi Governing Council, he seems to have broken a logjam. The problem for the U.S. is to be able to hand over full sovereign power to an elected Iraqi government by July 1st of next year, with a "status of forces" agreement guaranteeing the continuing presence of U.S. troops to provide background security.

Now, Grand Ayatollah Ali Husseini al-Sistani, the authoritative spokesman for Iraq’s majority Shia population, had already laid down conditions for the vote which the U.S. State Department was too slow to comprehend. They should have been listening, some months ago, because Sistani’s prestige gives him a working veto over all plans. In this case, the U.S. had assumed an indirect election would decide the next government, conducted in 18 regional caucuses. But Sistani was insisting on a full, direct, popular ballot. That sounds nice until you realize it is physically impossible. Iraq’s last census was in 1998. It is unreliable. It will take about two years to do a new one; and a census is necessary as the basis of a legitimate voters’ roll.
Sounds like a nice contract for Lockheed. Look for the usual charges of Lockheed contributions to the Bush campaign.
But that’s thinking Western-style. As Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, who is Sistani’s hand within the Governing Council, has since insisted, an emergency list can be created by using the old U.N. ration coupon records as a point of departure, for a knock-down census that gathers only what is needed to assemble those voters’ rolls. This, too, will be nearly impossible to complete by June, but hey.
Well, hey. Slapping something together's sometimes what you have to do...
Worse, the Americans feared, the rush could lead to "a mosque election", in which the clerics tell the faithful how to vote. But this is the same as saying that Iraq is not yet ready for democracy — and of course it’s not. No matter how you cut it, "a mosque election" is what you’re going to get. Sistani’s other requirements are easier to meet, but again, not as easy as they sound. The draft constitution must acknowledge the Islamic faith, and not be in conflict with it (same story as Afghanistan). And, U.S. troops should be withdrawn from all civil patrols before the government handover. (They would like nothing better.) Since the Americans are training Iraqi police as fast as they can, the question is once again only one of time.
Embedding Islam into the constitution's the real sticking point. For one thing, it wasn't there before...
Naturally, the Kurds are suspicious of Shia posturing, and the Sunni representatives are suspicious of everyone. They tend to wait and see what the U.S. will do, before playing their own hands against Sistani’s. However, the current rotating President, Jalal Talabani, who leads one of the two large Kurdish factions, travelled to Najaf to confer directly with Sistani, immediately after the "night journey" encounter at Baghdad airport with President Bush. Nothing but good seemed to come of it, and the Governing Council would now seem to be bargaining again, with everything on the table.
Another Gordian knot cut untied...
So what did Mr. Bush do? It would seem that he personally delivered the rhetorical "Whatever!", to break an impasse. The principals had to hear from him directly that, in effect, Iraq is their problem to solve and not Mr. Bush’s; that the latter now accepts the new Iraqi democracy is not going to be very Western-looking, because it can’t be. It will instead resemble something hatched in an Iraqi bazaar; and the U.S. will remain to make sure that nothing worse happens.
Posted by: tipper. || 11/30/2003 8:05:16 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Whatever indeed. It's Iraqs problem. Our problem was the end of saddam's government. And that should remain the mission until complete. If Iraq can hammer out a plan to put together a government, have at it. The WoT must move on.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 15:21 Comments || Top||

#2  im not sure that whatever and moving on is adequate. We need a regime that is at least enough of an advance over the old one to begin to create conditions for sanity, and to show tangible results that will contrast with stagnation elsewhere in the region.

Now Dubya's 'whatever', if this is true, can still be a good negotiating tactic - against Sistani who is probably playing bazaar games himself. But we cant just move on.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 12/01/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||


Attack on Spanish: Update
EFL
Iraqi police refused to help in an attack which left seven Spanish intelligence officials dead and one injured in an ambush south of Baghdad, it was claimed last night. David Bowden, a Sky Television news reporter, who arrived at the ambush scene shortly after the attack, said that witnesses told him two other intelligence officials were also kidnapped in the mistaken belief that they were members of the CIA. Bowden said: "I got the impression it was an IED attack [improvised explosive device]. It just seemed like they waited for a convoy to drive by and they attacked. Two Iraqi policemen on motorcycles drove by and did not stop at all at the scene." The ambush appeared to have been carefully planned and came just a day after Washington warned that the Iraqi resistance had set up an extensive surveillance system as part of a strategy of carefully planned, targeted assassinations.
I repeat: Not very subtle, are they?
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/30/2003 7:55:59 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


’Anti-War’ British Muslim held in north Iraq
A student from Manchester University who has been on Stop the War marches in London and Tony Blair’s Sedgefield constituency has been arrested in northern Iraq amid concerns that he may have been fighting coalition forces in Iraq.
Urslaan Khan, 21, originally from the prosperous Teesside town of Yarm near Middlesbrough, was taking an Arabic Studies degree at the Department of Middle Eastern Studies at Manchester University. Khan was spending his third year of the course at the University of Alexandria in Egypt where he was learning Arabic. His father, Abdul Khan, confirmed that his son had gone missing last month and had not been in touch for weeks. A friend of his son’s in Egypt told the family that he had travelled to Mosul in northern Iraq, although the reason for his visit was unclear.
Lemme guess...
Sources in Britain and Iraq have confirmed that a British national matching Khan’s description has been arrested and interrogated by Kurdish forces. He is being held in the northern Iraqi town of Erbil, not far from the Syrian border.
So, what kind of school was he running? Or did he skip out from his bachelor party? Found a job with an NGO?
Khan’s father said: ’He used to call us every Saturday or Sunday from Egypt to tell us he was OK and send his love.’ He could not believe his son would have joined a radical Islamic group to fight American troops. ’Urslaan is a bit of an adventurer, a bit impulsive, and may have travelled out to Iraq to see firsthand what was going on. He was political and strong-minded like most of his family and we had been on anti-war marches together but we are strong believers in democracy.’ British authorities in Baghdad were contacted two weeks ago by Kurdish forces who confirmed they had arrested a British national. Foreign Office officials will attempt to gain consular access this week. A spokeswoman said they had not been able to travel to Erbil because of the security situation.
Posted by: TS || 11/30/2003 2:01:58 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I can't even pretend to be surprised about the anti-war and pro jihadist movement together.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 11/30/2003 2:06 Comments || Top||

#2  They're not anti-war... they're on the other side.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/30/2003 9:42 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Philippine troops rescue two hostages from Muslim extremist group
Government troops on Sunday rescued two Filipinos kidnapped by Muslim rebels on the southern island of Jolo, officials said. Jolo military chief Col. Alexander Yapching said dentist Romeo Lao, 56, and his nephew Amor Rubio, 16, were unhurt in a brief fire fight between the soldiers and guerrillas before their rescue in the village of Lagasan in Jolo’s Parang town. The two were kidnapped in downtown Jolo in September by an Abu Sayyaf faction believed led by Galib Andang.
Posted by: TS || 11/30/2003 11:23:13 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Just in case there's someone we haven't offended...
My old friend Mike C. e-mailed me this list...
What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball?
Juan on Juan.

What is a Yankee?
The same as a quickie, but a guy can do it alone.

What is the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?
The position of the dirt bag.

Why is divorce so expensive?
Because it's worth it.

What's the fluid capacity of Monica Lewinsky's mouth?
One US leader.

What do you see when the Pillsbury Dough Boy bends over?
Doughnuts.

Why is air a lot like sex?
Because it's no big deal unless you're not getting any.

Why is Chelsea Clinton so homely?
Because Janet Reno is her real father.

What do you get when you put 50 lesbians and 50 politicians in a room together?
100 people who don't do dick.

What do you call a smart blonde?
A golden retriever.

What do attorneys use for birth control?
Their personalities.

What's the difference between a girlfriend and wife?
45 lbs.

What's the difference between a boyfriend and husband?
45 minutes.

What's the fastest way to a man's heart?
Through his chest with a sharp knife.

Why do men want to marry virgins?
They can't stand criticism.

Why is it so hard for women to find men that are sensitive, caring, and good-looking?
Because those men already have boyfriends.

What's the difference between a new husband and a new dog?
After a year, the dog is still excited to see you.

What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving.

A brunette, a blonde, and a redhead are all in third grade. Who has the biggest boobs?
The blonde, because she's 18.

What's the difference between a porcupine and BMW?
A porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

What did the blonde say when she found out she was pregnant?
Are you sure it's mine?"

What's the difference between Beer Nuts and Deer Nuts?
Beer Nuts are $1, and Deer Nuts are always under a buck.

Why does Mike Tyson cry during sex?
Mace will do that to you.

Why do men find it difficult to make eye contact?
Breasts don't have eyes.

Why do drivers' education classes in Redneck schools use the car only on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?
Because on Tuesday and Thursday, the Sex Ed class uses it.

What's the Cuban National Anthem?
"Row, Row, Row Your Boat"

Where does an Irish family go on vacation?
A different bar.

What would you call it when an Italian has one arm shorter than the other?
A speech impediment.

What does it mean when the flag at the Post Office is flying at half-mast?
They're hiring.

What's the difference between a southern zoo and a northern zoo?
A southern zoo has a description of the animal on the front of the cage along with... "a recipe".

How do you get a sweet little 80-year-old lady to say the F... word?
Get another sweet little 80-year-old lady to yell *BINGO*!

What's the difference between a northern fairytale and a southern fairytale?
A Northern fairytale begins "Once upon a time..."
A southern fairytale begins "Y'all ain't gonna believe this shit..."

Why is there no Disneyland in China?
No one's tall enough to go on the good rides
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 21:45 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You forgot one:

"Why are there no Arabs on Star Trek?"
"Because it takes place in the future".
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/30/2003 21:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Fred, I asked my wife the first question 'bout the two Mexicans playing basketball, She, being a latina, shot back "Two jumping beans", thought that was pretty good.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 21:57 Comments || Top||

#3  With comments 1 & 2 you've included pretty much everyone. LOL
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/30/2003 23:24 Comments || Top||

#4  Very good.I did notice the list seems to show 1 advantage of being part of the coalition of the willing-no Polish jokes.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/30/2003 23:54 Comments || Top||

#5  Another one: Why aren't there any Puerto Ricans on Star Trek? They don't work in the future, either.
Posted by: Sarah || 12/01/2003 9:21 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Fatah scares off would-be Geneva signers
Faced with a campaign of terrorism and intimidation, a number of Palestinians have decided to stay away from the signing ceremony of the Geneva Accord, set to be held in Switzerland on Monday.
"I gotta watch out for my health, y'know?"
Fatah officials Hatem Abdel Kader and Muhammad Hourani, who played a major role in the behind-the-scenes talks that resulted in the Geneva Accord, decided to boycott the ceremony.
"We hafta wash our turbans that day."
Abdel Kader told The Jerusalem Post he decided not to travel to Geneva after Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat and the Fatah Central Council refused to endorse the agreement. "We don't want to be like [Jerusalem academic] Sari Nusseibeh, who is under attack because of his peace initiative with [former Shin Bet chief] Ami Ayalon," he said. "There is a state of confusion and crisis inside Fatah. Some Fatah leaders are exploiting the agreement to incite against us and organize street protests."
Isn't that what usually happens, regardless of what's going on? Don't they ever get tired of inciting against people and organizing street protests?
Abdel Kader said the main goal of the Geneva Accord is to create schism inside Israel and undermine the government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Comes as a surprise, huh?
"Our aim was to create divisions inside Israel and block the growth of the right-wing in Israel," he said. "But we didn't get the OK from Arafat, and this paved the way for street protests. We can't go without Arafat's consent." But PA Minister of State Kadoura Fares, one of the agreement's authors, said he received a green light from Arafat to travel to Geneva. He said Arafat told him during a meeting in Ramallah Sunday evening that he was not opposed to the participation of Palestinians in the ceremony.
"Just make sure nothing comes of it."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 19:52 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  LOL - this was a better deal than they'd get from any representative gov't - and they want more - LOL!!!
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 21:05 Comments || Top||


Iran
IAEA PLANS ANOTHER REPORT ON IRAN’S NUKES
From Middle East News Line
LONDON [MENL] -- The International Atomic Energy Agency plans to issue another report on Iran’s nuclear program.
Another report! O Joy Unbounded! We can hardly wait!
IAEA sources said the purpose of the report is meant to determine whether Iran intends to assemble nuclear weapons. In its November report, the agency said it could not make such a determination.
And what, I ask, will be IAEA’s algorithm for separating real McCoy from Decoy, given the way they must gather information in Iran?
Another issue in the forthcoming report would be Iran’s links with unauthorized nuclear suppliers, including the source for Teheran’s uranium enrichment program. The sources said the agency suspects that Pakistan has been a leading supplier of uranium to Iran.
Pakistan is becoming a real pain in the ass in the WoT. We are allied with a schitzophrentic.
IAEA director-general Mohamed El Baradei said the new report on Iran would be ready by February when the board of governors convenes. El Baradei said the agency would attempt to conclude whether Iran’s nuclear program is exclusively for peaceful purposes. Good luck, fellas! In the meantime, it will be prudent to keep proceeding with US and Israeli plans for dealing with the nukes. The clock is ticking down to less than a year at the longest for action.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 6:19:30 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Iran will have that bomb. May it be an albatross round their necks. But the IAEA should do the report. Should be interesting reading, no.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 22:51 Comments || Top||

#2  IAEA sources said the purpose of the report is meant to determine whether Iran intends to assemble nuclear weapons.

Mohammed El-Baradei: "Imam Khamenei, are you going to assemble nuclear weapons?"

Ali Khamenei: "No."

Mohammed El-Baradei: "Good. I shall put this in my report."
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/30/2003 23:12 Comments || Top||


Caucasus
Abkhazia not to be part of Georgia
Abkhazian Prime Minster Raul Khadzhimba has stated that the Republic intended to maintain its self-proclaimed independence. Abkhazia is an independent republic, unlike Adjaria, and will never be part of Georgia, he told a press conference in Moscow.
"We don't like them, 'cuz they're ucky."
Khadzhimba noted south Ossetia's leaders had the same stand. A south Ossetian delegation is also in Moscow. The Abkhazian premier said that he noted during the consultations in Moscow that Abkhazia wanted to maintain the status existing for ten years already and remain in the negotiating process. Abkhazia has enough strength to maintain its independence, Khadzhimba stressed. The republic's military and police forces are kept in high combat readiness in connection with the developments in Tbilisi, he said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:46 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Apropos of nuttin', really, I'll point out that Abkhazia released that Mad Magazine "Starr Wars" poster as a set of stamps. It isn't an official country, so real stamp collectors sniff at it. But I thought it was fun (got a set for Christmas last year). That's how I learned about Abkhazia. Stamp collecting is educational!
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 11/30/2003 12:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Angie,
Someone has to replace all those sand dune "sheikdoms" that joined to form the United Arab Emirates, and to buck up the revenue from "Dufahr" and "Nagaland". The poor "stamp printing" companies were about to go bankrupt! 8^)
And yeah, I collect stamps, too, which is why I'm always broke!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 14:59 Comments || Top||


Iran
Basijis march outside ex-US embassy
Over 15,000 Basij members (volunteer forces) on Sunday marched outside the former US embassy in Tehran, known as the U.S Den of Espionage, on the occasion of Basij Week to announce their readiness to defend the Islamic Revolution's causes.
Thanks for the reminder. With the press of current affairs, we sometimes forget that the world has not one, but two rectums...
The Basij members of different ministries and state organizations wearing military uniforms revived the memories of the martyrs of the eight years Iraqi-imposed war on Iran. The Basij members carrying placards, chanted anti-US and anti-Israel slogans as "death to the US" and "death to Israel" to declare their hatred of the crimes committed by the Zionist Regime and the US administration. Some administrative and military officials as well as people from various walks of life also took part in the rally.
Got the buses running, did you? I think I'll go out this afternoon and chant "Death to Iran!" for an hour or two. That should really bruise them in Teheran.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:22 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  martyrs of the eight years Iraqi-imposed war on Iran. The Basij members carrying placards, chanted anti-US and anti-Israel slogans

Makes sense to me.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/30/2003 12:11 Comments || Top||

#2  Chanting 'Death to Iran' will probably get you arrested for a hate crime here in the Good-Ole U.S. of A. Particulary in LaLa Land (LA County).

Yes I know.... Stupid.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/30/2003 12:25 Comments || Top||

#3  8 years of war, huh? Seems to me we blew through Saddam's army in a lot less time...keep up the arrogant blather asshats...reality's gonna suck for you when it hits. Start the psy-ops now! Broadcast TV to Iranians from Iraq, let them try and jam that...keeps em busy putting down internal problems so they can't focus on us
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 13:49 Comments || Top||

#4  15,000 of them in one place? We missed a major target of opportunity.
Posted by: Matt || 11/30/2003 13:52 Comments || Top||

#5  Watch your languange Hadji, We are coming to a neighborhood near you soon.......

Uncle Sams Middle-East Urban Renewal Program is about to rezone your ass.
Posted by: frank martin || 11/30/2003 15:45 Comments || Top||

#6  15,000 of them in one place? We missed a major target of opportunity.
Yeah, kinda missed the chance to test that MOAB's spam-making ability. With all the cardboard available from their signs, probably could have created and packaged it with one shot - a REAL twofer.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 18:39 Comments || Top||

#7  God will punish the Basij members who dirty His name in their satanic cause. I feel nothing but shame at being a member of the same human race as these agents of the devil. "Forgive for they do not know what they do"..
Posted by: Anonymous || 12/10/2003 10:26 Comments || Top||

#8  God will punish the Basij members who dirty His name in their satanic cause. I feel nothing but shame at being a member of the same human race as these agents of the devil. "Forgive for they do not know what they do"..
Posted by: Anonymous || 12/10/2003 10:26 Comments || Top||


Caucasus
Georgia names post-Shevardnadze FM
Georgia's parliament on Sunday chose a new foreign minister to boost international confidence in the country following President Eduard Shevardnadze's ousting. Tedo Dzhaparidze, a former ambassador to the United States and security council chief, was voted in as foreign minister by 112 out of 126 parliament deputies in the Caucasus country. Speaking to parliament Dzhaparidze said he would strive for good relations with both the United States and Russia, the two main powers competing for influence in a region which is a political faultline between East and West. Dzhaparidze is part of the new westward-looking leadership led by Mikhail Saakashvili which swept Shevardnadze aside in a bloodless coup on November 23 after weeks of street protests. Saakashvili's grouping has voiced hopes of eventually joining both the European Union and NATO — the latter aim being certain to annoy Russia's current leadership. The US-educated Saakashvili is expected to romp to victory in presidential elections on January 4 while a date for fresh parliamentary elections has yet to be set.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/30/2003 11:19 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Join the EU? Someone needs a geography lesson.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/30/2003 17:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Even asking to join the EU and NATO is a way of asserting independence from Vlad the Impaler's Russia, and presses both EU and NATO for SOME form of connection. Also needed to pressure Vlad re Abkhazia and S. Ossetia.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 12/01/2003 11:12 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Another Gitmo Security Breach
EFL
A U.S. Army intelligence officer charged yesterday with violating security measures at the U.S. Naval Base, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was caught with "significant amounts of classified information" when his tour ended at the detention camp, a source close to the investigation has told The Washington Times. Col. Jack Farr was charged with failing to obey a lawful order; more specifically, "wrongfully transporting classified material without the proper security container" on or about Oct. 11, said a statement from the U.S. Southern Command in Miami, which oversees Guantanamo. The colonel also is charged with making a false statement during the course of the investigation over his handling of the material. Col. Farr is an Army reservist serving with the 384th Military Police Battalion, part of which is assigned to a joint task force at the base. It wasn’t immediately clear what material Col. Farr collected, how it was discovered or what he intended to do with it.
National Enquirer?
A Guantanamo Bay military source told The Times last night that Col. Farr was "in possession of significant amounts of classified information when his tour ended at Guantanamo," making him the fourth person charged in probes of possible espionage at the naval base prison, where some 660 suspected al Qaeda and Taliban members apprehended in the U.S.-led war on terror are being detained. The source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Col. Farr’s tour of duty at Guantanamo had ended when the accusations surfaced. "He was returned to active duty and brought back to Guantanamo, and he is there now," the source said. The source also said that since Col. Farr and investigators are at "loggerheads," the investigation is "concluded," and the Army charged Col. Farr in an apparent attempt to get information from him. It was the fourth incident at the military base in which security measures were purportedly breached.
What the heck is going on down there? Do any of you counter-intel folks have an opinion?

From what I heard on Fox News yesterday, it's an intel breach, not — so far, anyway — a case of spying. They're going to come down on any security violations with both feet after having three Islamist cases. The terminus could be one of the tabloids, ANSWER or Amnesty International, or even the guy's memoirs. I suppose he could even have a turban hanging in his closet. Guess we'll have to wait and see what the investigation turns up.
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/30/2003 8:07:41 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  My experience is that this is a common situation where you have exposure and use access to TS or red letter material and forget procedure from time to time due to distractions, time, fatigue, etc. Then "poof" up jumps the CI with a nee-nah-nee-nah. It may not be anything more than a dumb oversight on his part or it could be he is in debt back home and needs some cash from the tabloids but I doubt it.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 11/30/2003 11:14 Comments || Top||

#2  JiB - I don't know about the military, but in civilian land you don't get access to classified material w/o (at least) three things: the proper security clearance, need-to-know, and signing a legal document that you've read and agree to follow all procedures for handling & safeguard, etc. Improper handling or access can (depending on circumstances) result in anything from a slap on the wrist to a new career at the Crossbar Hotel.
Posted by: PBMcL || 11/30/2003 17:53 Comments || Top||

#3  I should have added: unless you work at Los Alamos, in which case you can scatter sensitive nuclear weapons info to the four winds.
Posted by: PBMcL || 11/30/2003 18:01 Comments || Top||


Caucasus
Russia suspends early voting in Chechnya
A week before Russia’s parliamentary election, officials suspended on Saturday advance voting for troops in Chechnya, the country’s most problematic region fraught with separatist violence. Organising elections has always proved difficult in Chechnya, where 60,000 Russian servicemen remain subject to daily attacks in the Kremlin’s second post-Soviet drive to crush separatists. Separatism was a key issue in the 1999 election, held only months after Vladimir Putin, then prime minister, oversaw the return of troops to the region. The conflict later helped him easily win a presidential poll, but the fighting has dragged on, and voters this time show little interest in the conflict.

The top electoral officer in Chechnya said the head of Russia’s Central Election Commission, Alexander Veshnyakov, had ordered a temporary halt to voting for countrywide party lists and Chechnya’s sole deputy in the State Duma lower house. "Veshnyakov called me last night and told me to suspend things," Abdul-Kerim Arsakhanov told Ekho Moskvy radio. "He was concerned about the number of servicemen and wanted to know why so many were taking part in advance voting."

The number of Russian troops allowed to vote in Chechnya has been a sensitive issue in the region in the Caucasus range on Russia’s southern flank. Chechnya voted overwhelmingly in March for a new constitution to entrench the region within Russia. Voters then elected as regional president Akhmad Kadyrov, appointed by Putin to run Chechnya in 2000 and Kremlin favourite in the contest. Human rights groups and liberals say both ballots were subject to cheating and dirty tricks. Eight candidates are running for Chechnya’s Duma seat in the December 7 poll, six Moscow-based Chechens and two locals. Campaigning has been subject to the usual daily violence between Russian forces and armed separatists. Russian media reported on Saturday that gunmen had fired this week on a school due to house a polling station south of the regional capital Grozny, killing a policeman standing guard. In the same area, the head of a military construction team and his driver were reported to have been shot dead on Saturday. An activist for the pro-Kremlin United Russia party — which leads the opposition Communists in country-wide opinion polls — was reported shot dead earlier this week in southern Chechnya. United Russia is backing no candidate in Chechnya.

Russian television showed pictures of Russian soldiers, due to be on assignment far from polling stations on election day, casting ballots in the presence of officers. Advance voting began on Saturday, just hours before being suspended. Arsakhanov told Ekho Moskvy that his electoral team was unaware of any violations of electoral procedures. "Maybe he (chief electoral officer Veshnyakov) has some information which we are unaware of and wants to investigate things fully," he said. "Perhaps voting will resume later today."
Posted by: Dan Darling || 11/30/2003 2:31:55 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Africa: East
Kenya arrests 24 al-Qaeda
Kenyan authorities have arrested more than 24 suspects wanted for two al-Qaeda attacks, including some sought by America. The 24 include several alleged masterminds, and are accused of taking part in the 1998 car bombing of the US embassy in Nairobi and the November 2002 attack on a coastal hotel in Mombasa, National Security Minister Christopher Murungaru told the independent East African Standard newspaper. Most of the suspects are foreigners.
How long until they drop these charges?
Posted by: Dan Darling || 11/30/2003 2:29:01 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Middle East
Qureia Threatens to End Peace Talks
Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia on Saturday harshly criticized Israel’s West Bank security barrier, threatening to pull out of peace negotiations if construction of the structure isn’t halted.
Sounds like the al-Aqsa toughs came a’courting.
Qureia’s tough words came hours before he traveled to neighboring Jordan for a meeting with U.S. envoy William Burns, was returned to the region in hopes of reviving the stalled and left to burn on the side of the road "road map" peace plan. Palestinian officials said Qureia was expected to tell Burns that he is optimistic that he can persuade Palestinian militants, in talks beginning Tuesday in Egypt, to halt attacks on Israel.
He’s also confident that Yasser will get his hand out of the till, and that Yasser will finally open that red binder on his desk.
But Qureia also planned to ask Burns to put pressure on Israel to halt construction of the barrier and to withdraw from Palestinian areas.
"We will do nothing without concessions from the Israelis. Then we will do nothing."
Qureia did not comment after Saturday night’s meeting. He is seeking to present a truce agreement to the Israeli government in hopes of reaching a cease-fire deal that could revive talks on the road map. The U.S.-backed plan calls for a series of steps leading to an independent Palestinian state by 2005.
Notice Qureia didn’t actually propose to do something that’s on the roadmap.
During Saturday’s meeting, Burns repeated the U.S. commitment to establishing a Palestinian state, but said the Palestinians must end "terror and violence" against Israel, according to a statement issued by the U.S. Embassy in Amman, Jordan. Burns also repeated President Bush’s belief that Israel must "end the daily humiliation of the Palestinian people and rebuild trust," the statement said.
A little hard to do that when the splodydopes keep coming.
Hours before the meeting with Burns, Qureia said the continued construction of the barrier is threatening the ability of Paleo terrorists to cross into Israel the prospects for peace. "If the Israeli government says it will continue building the wall ... then there is no need for any meetings," he said, referring to possible talks with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. "I am not saying this is a precondition yes you are!, but I want serious positions (from Israel)." Israel says the barrier is necessary to block Palestinian suicide bombers. But Palestinians say the structure is an Israeli effort to seize Palestinian land. The barrier of razor wire, fences, concrete walls and trenches is expected to run 430 miles along the Israel-West Bank border. When it is completed, parts will dip deep into the West Bank.
Here’s the one strategic mistake by the Israelis. If the fence had followed the 1967 line more closely, the Paleo whining would be seen for what it is.
Zalman Shoval, an adviser to Sharon, said that construction of the fence will continue as long as Israel feels its security is threatened. But he left the door open to negotiations if the Palestinians make progress on halting militants. "It’s somewhat curious for a Palestinian prime minister supposedly committed to peace to object to something whose one and only purpose is to protect human lives," Shoval said. "If terror would stop altogether and terror organizations would be broken up ... there won’t be a need for a fence."
Cause and effect lesson # 14,482.
Since Qureia formed a new government earlier this month, Israel and the Palestinians have been working on arranging a meeting between their prime ministers. Palestinian Cabinet Minister Saeb ("Lipless") Erekat and other officials were to meet Sunday with Sharon’s chief of staff, Dov Weisglass, to prepare for a summit, Qureia said. But Qureia will only agree to meet Sharon if the Israeli premier shows a willingness to compromise on a series of contentious issues, including the barrier. "If they have an honest desire to seriously study these issues, the meeting will take place," Qureia said.
Guess there won’t be a meeting after all.
Qureia’s criticism of Israel may have been aimed at saving his life gaining credibility with the militants ahead of cease-fire talks beginning in Cairo on Tuesday. Qureia said he planned to attend the last few days of the Cairo talks.
More talks! Just what the Middle East needs.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/30/2003 2:08:56 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Of course blowing-up Isralie bus' has no affect on the"prospects for peace."

Posted by: Anonymous || 11/30/2003 6:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Sharon's learning/using the Arafat way - keep talking and do what you wanted to all along. The wall is driving the Paleos nuts because killing Israelis is the only leverage they have and when the wall's done (and it's only a matter of time) the Israelis can say: "Have your stinking (demilitarized) Paleo state - if you bring in military from outside, or attack across the wall, we'll annihilate you. Otherwise, good luck, assholes....welcome to Paleo 8th century despotism. Seethe and whine in your hummus all you want. By the way...might want to think about learning some birth control...."
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 10:17 Comments || Top||

#3  Stole my thunder, Frank. And great post/comments, too. The key thing to understand, as Frank notes, is that the barrier is a strategic coup de main, in that it essentially destroys the Pals' last bit of leverage. I'm assuming this, and not the practical inconveniences, is behind what seems (I hope?) to be Palestinian desperation.

As to whether the particular course of the barrier as built is a mistake -- tough call, actually. Before they started building, some of us agreed on basic guidelines: the barrier should be a militarized frontier, with impassable yet readily removed and relatively cheap features like ditches, berms, wire, mines, and monitored fences, not a wall; its course should be determined first by effectiveness and cost efficiency; and in select cases its route should be punitive.

I agree with the logic of the post that running it on the Green Line would expose the bad faith of Palestinian whining -- but it would probably have been just one more astoundingly blatant Palestinian distortion that gets a pass.

I think Frank's nailed it on overall strategy: build the barrier, disengage from the territories, lay down very blunt and stark red lines on Pal behavior. Another element I've wondered about is economic disengagement. Ideally, Israel could ban all Palestinian labor (not goods for transhipment, though), period. I think the pain of this, along with the barrier, might eventually tip the Palestinian community against its disastrous and parasitic "leaderhsip". Also there would be obvious security benefits. Worth a try, at least.
Posted by: IceCold || 11/30/2003 11:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Thanks IC - I would think they would have to ban all Paleo labor as a matter of security. They already haveto worry about fifth column Israeli arabs, which are getting recruited more and more frequently. Walls can be moved, the first thing is to get it in place. I wonder how much financial aid the EU would give a disengaged Paleo state? I speculate that if the Paleos weren't such a thorn in the Joooos side there might not be such a unspoken antisemitic schadenfreude sentiment to enrich Yasser and cronies
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 14:02 Comments || Top||

#5  If the EU wants to through unaccounted for billions of euros into the Paleo rathole, then they are welcome to it. The Saudis are going to be quite occupied with their own physical and fiscal asses in the very near future, so the honey pot is goin' down. Frank, I believe, is on the mark with his analysis of Israel's strategy. Talk is cheap. Want to talk, let's talk. Talk as long as you like. Yes we are continuing the fence, what else do you want to talk about?

I have one question though, based upon ignorance. What is the deal with the west bank settlements? Are they viable to Israel from the economic and security view? What is the deal with them? I wonder how they fit into the big picture for Israel.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/30/2003 16:44 Comments || Top||

#6  AP, some of the settlements will be inside the wall -- that's one of the political considerations that drove the placement of the wall. Some of the oldest/biggest settlements are inside, some are just outside, and some small/newer ones are well outside. I think that the last group will get jettisoned when the wall is complete. The others? Don't know yet.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/30/2003 17:34 Comments || Top||

#7  one of the biggest and most established and most disputed is Ariel. Its located southwest of Nablus relatively far in from the pre-67 armistice line, yet still west of the main road from Nablus to Ramallah. For years it was assumed that even a Labour govt would keep Ariel. IIRC the first Barak offer at Camp David II did involve Israel keeping Ariel - but with only a narrow corridor linking it to Israel, not the wide salient envisioned in earlier years. IIRC the last Barak proposal, at Taba, would have given up Ariel.

Sharon clearly wants to keep Ariel. A big question is whether the security barrier should go jog east to bring Ariel inside, or just leave it out. At this point theyve simply skipped that sector and avoided a decision. The US has made noises cutting back aid if the barrier goes too far east. This has big implications for negotiating - while Israel insists the barrier is not a political boundary (to avoid pissing off the Pals, Euros and Powell on the one hand, and the settlers in the "outside" settlements and their supporters on the other) a unilateral withdrawl to the barrier, with annexation of everything west of it, is clearly the Israeli fall back position at such point as they give up any diplomatic process. The farther east the barrier is, the more threatening such a unilateral move is to the Pals and their friends, and the less of a concession on Israel's part it represents. Ergo the more powerful it is as a bargaining chip. Ergo to build the barrier further west is ITSELF to forego a bargaining chip, and requires COMPENSATION - in the form of Pals adhering to the their road map promises to crackdown on Hamas. Promises Qureia has yet to fulfill.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 12/01/2003 11:46 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Terror camp Britons to be sent home from Gitmo
A deal to return British terrorist suspects held at Guantanamo Bay is to be sealed before Christmas, according to officials from America and the United Kingdom. The ’returns policy’ is now believed to be the leading option being considered in Washington which has made clear that it wants to end the tension between the US and Britain over the issue.
Probably a good idea to help Tony where we can.
Under the agreement, the nine British detainees will be sent back to Britain, either after pleading guilty to charges in America and being sent to serve their sentences in British prisons, or without being charged. It is then likely that some of them will be sent to Belmarsh prison in south London and held under prevention of terrorism legislation.
"’ello, boys, we’re the new boss, same as the old boss. Assume the position!"
At least two, Shafiq Rasul and Asif Iqbal, the so-called ’Tipton Two’ could be freed.
Uhhh... Any reason for that?
The agreement will end one of the most damaging conflicts between the White House and Downing Street, which has been pressing for fair trials for the Britons who have been held under military command at the US base in Cuba for two years. Many observers thought that a deal would be signed to mark President George Bush’s visit to London two weeks ago. But complex legal arguments, which are still on-going, meant a delay. America has been moving rapidly in recent weeks to solve the Guantanamo problem which has seen strained relations with a number of countries whose citizens are held at the same base. Last week Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, indicated that although a deal was not yet done with Britain, they had finished questioning two of the nine detainees, thought to be Rasul and Iqbal. An American diplomat also recently announced the release of 20 other non-British inmates. Australia has also agreed a deal on its nationals held there.
Aussies want their turn at these jokers.
Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, and David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, have consistently made it clear that they wanted to see the suspects sent back to face British justice. The Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, has also made trips to Washington to try to secure a deal. British human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith, who is working with the suspects, said he was confident that a deal had been struck. ’The British Government has finally realised it has to help the Americans out of the corner they have painted themselves into,’ he said. ’This deal will most likely consist of the British having to plead guilty on some serious nonsense charge and come back here to serve their full sentence. However it seems highly improbable that Iqbal and Rasul will be charged with anything. There simply is nothing there.’
Where was it they were caught? Doing what?
It appears that Downing Street would be comfortable with some charges being brought but it is clear that the British Government could not guarantee a trial of anyone sent back to the UK, one of the original demands made by the US.
So we’ll have the trial at Gitmo.
’The Americans just want these people to plead guilty so that it looks as if they have been telling the truth that these are all "bad dudes",’ Stafford Smith said.
More than just ’look’ that way, bucko.
’We know that is nonsense. There is no evidence of any kind against them. In one man’s case all he was doing was running a school.’
Is Stafford really so stupid that he doesn’t understand what happens in an Islamic school?
Stafford Smith said Iqbal had been taken abroad for an arranged marriage by his parents who were concerned about his ’westernised ways’, including a fondness for Manchester United. He disappeared on his stag night and turned up several weeks later in an Afghan jail. At the time the US was offering local people $4,500 to hand in ’foreign Taliban fighters’. ’The idea this rowdy football supporter from Tipton is a terrorist is credible laughable,’ Stafford Smith said. ’He doesn’t know how to load a gun.’
Don’t worry, he’ll show you first chance he gets.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/30/2003 1:56:24 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  There is no evidence of any kind against them. In one man’s case all he was doing was running a jihad training school.

I wonder what Stafford Smith and his ilk would say if any of these Gitmo 'innocents' should appear later on the WoT battlefield? OOPs, my bad?

During WWII there was the phrase "for the duration" which meant that many disruptions to our way of life; military service, price controls, rationing, etc; wouldn't change until victory over the axis. The enemy combatants at Gitmo should be held until the WoT has been won i.e, "For the duration".
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/30/2003 7:11 Comments || Top||

#2  "The British Government has finally realised it has to help the Americans out of the corner they have painted themselves into"

Oh my! Where would we be without the expert pronouncements by wankers and noted terrorist suck-up such as "British human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith"?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/30/2003 9:53 Comments || Top||

#3  What tension? I don't see any tension between the US and the UK. The demos when GW was here were pitiful (good!).

"He disappeared on his stag night and turned up several weeks later in an Afghan jail" - yeah right. This isn't like being handcuffed to the overnighter to Inverness!

I'm against this. They knew what they were doing.

They ought to take the consequences.
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 11/30/2003 11:18 Comments || Top||

#4  So you won't mind putting these two up in your spare room, right Mr. Smith?

Right?
Posted by: Parabellum || 11/30/2003 12:31 Comments || Top||

#5  Guess they finally got that satellite tracking software debugged and the chips installed. That'll help considerably! There's NOWHERE they can't go where we can't find them, even the 37th sub-basement at Tora Bora. These guys may as well have a toe-tag tattooed on their chests - sooner or later, they'll have use for it.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/30/2003 18:35 Comments || Top||

#6  Nothing is more disgusting than seeing Tony Blair go to bat for "his" jihadis. A harmful precedent for us.
Posted by: someone || 11/30/2003 19:45 Comments || Top||

#7  It's the damn chattering class that gloms onto anything to cause a rukus. There are probablt ten people in the UK who actually gives a shit about these soccer bums. The rest are BBC spoon fed mice.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/30/2003 21:36 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2003-11-30
  4th ID bangs 46 in ambushes
Sat 2003-11-29
  Germany arrests al-Qaeda leader
Fri 2003-11-28
  Soddies sieze ton o' bombs
Thu 2003-11-27
  Blast Hits Italian Mission in Baghdad
Wed 2003-11-26
  9 charged in Istanbooms
Tue 2003-11-25
  Zarqawi was pivot man for Istanboom
Mon 2003-11-24
  Pakistan declares ceasefire in Kashmir
Sun 2003-11-23
  Shevardnadze resigns
Sat 2003-11-22
  Car boomers target Iraqi police, 12 dead
Fri 2003-11-21
  Binny in Iran?
Thu 2003-11-20
  Istanbul boomed again
Wed 2003-11-19
  50 killed in Somalia festivities
Tue 2003-11-18
  Istanbul bombing mastermind fled to Syria
Mon 2003-11-17
  John Muhammad: Guilty.
Sun 2003-11-16
  Shia leader held over Azam Tariq killing

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