Security forces are searching for a group of wanted militants, possibly including the chief of the al-Qaida terrorist network in Saudi Arabia, in a mountainous area northwest of Riyadh, a security official said Monday. Abdulaziz Issa Abdul-Mohsin al-Moqrin, Saudi Arabia's most wanted militant, is believed to be holed up with four to five other terror suspects in a mountain area known as al-Muzair'a in al-Hassayah, a town 18 miles northwest of Riyadh, the official said on condition of anonymity. The official told The Associated Press that about 200 counterterrorism officers with heavily armored vehicles have been surrounding a two-square-mile area since late Sunday, while helicopters were seen hovering over the area Monday trying to spot the militants' exact location.
"Which way did he go, George? Which way did he go?"
Witnesses said police have cordoned off al-Hassayah and are keeping journalists from entering the area.
Don't want any witnesses to the upcoming escape.
U.S. and Saudi officials believe al-Moqrin is al-Qaida's top figure in Saudi Arabia and the mastermind of a Nov. 8 bombing of a Riyadh housing compound that killed 17 people, most of them Arabs and Muslims working in Saudi Arabia. The operation in al-Hassayah follows last Wednesday's suicide bombing of a government security building in Riyadh. That attack killed five people and wounded 148. On Friday, Saudi forces fought militants in the Red Sea port city of Jiddah, killing five and capturing a sixth. Four of the five dead were on the government's list of 26 most wanted militants, according to an Interior Ministry statement.
Amazing how being on the receiving end of jihad focuses the mind.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 4:12:11 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Prediction: He escapes in a 100yr old sewer drain.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/26/2004 17:00 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Yeah.... YS... but ancient sewerdrain better. Did you know arabians perfected sewage?
Saudi King Fahd ordered salary increases for security forces combating terrorism as an incentive to improve operations, a royal decree said Monday. The action was taken on the recommendation of Crown Prince Abdullah.
Hummmm, this is either: A - recognition that it's a dangerous job and requires better compensation, or B - recognition that the Royals necks are in danger and the palace guard needs a bigger paycheck to ensure they stay loyal.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 12:11:12 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
So I guess they will start fighting terrorists now rather than waiving them through checkpoints.
Posted by: Tibor ||
04/26/2004 12:53 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Or, possibly, it's a move in the war of the princes with each other. Nayaf, the conservative Wahabist interior minister who controls the security forces, vs. Abdullah and others who are more moderate and more open to the west.
Fahd himself has been out of things for a while now by most reports .....
And the UK is going to exempt muslim women from being photographed for their ID cards
A Saudi woman was recently attacked by a terrorist in Al-Faiha district of Riyadh during a police chase. The terrorist forced her to remove her abaya and used it to escape.
"Gimme them duds, baby!"
Such tactics are not uncommon; those wanted by the police often dress in womenâs clothes to make their escape.
Or for some fairly kinky sexual adventuring...
The latest storming by police of a residential building in Al-Safa district has revealed that the suspects had been living there for three years and had often dressed as women without raising any suspicions on the part of their neighbors.
Except for the guns, of course. And the occasional explosion.
This is not a new problem for police. In the past six months, police have discovered many wanted men and overstayers dressed as women. The lawbreakers take advantage of the abaya when in public. Many other suspects have escaped by wearing womenâs clothes.
... some by wearing women's underwear.
In the past year, police have discovered large quantities of abayas, make-up, wigs, womenâs shoes and veils during raids. The terrorists evidently have no qualms about taking advantage of the modesty of women for criminal causes.
"What'd this babe that stole yer car look like?"
"'Bout six foot five, had a moustache. She was smoking a cigar. I'll never forget the delightful aroma...."
Lt. Col. Ayed Al-Luqmani, commander of the Passports Departmentâs patrol officers, said that female officers accompany his officials during inspections.
"Colonel! We found another dame with a hanger!"
"Oh, stop that, you brazen hussy!"
There are not many women inspectors but they are seen as vital at airports and other points of entry. Al-Luqmani said that it was very important to have women officers in order to make sure that those in womenâs clothes are indeed women.
"Awright, sister! Lemme see them udders!... Ahah! Cantaloupes! Just as I thought!"
Posted by: tipper ||
04/26/2004 11:58:00 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
pussy ass goat abusers!
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 12:10 Comments ||
Top||
#2
I feel a song coming on . . .
I'm a terrorist and I'm okay,
I sleep all night and I work all day.
He's a terrorist and he's okay,
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
I blow up things, I wear high heels,
A burkha and a bra.
I wish I was a girlie,
Just like dear Osama.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/26/2004 12:35 Comments ||
Top||
#3
pretty good, Mike!
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/26/2004 13:05 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Mike,
as I recall, the gay folks used to consider the lumberjack song one of 'theirs'.
Posted by: Mark O ||
04/26/2004 14:24 Comments ||
Top||
#6
"Oh, Mahmoud! And here I thought you were so rugged!"
Posted by: Mike ||
04/26/2004 15:18 Comments ||
Top||
#7
I'm seeing a great comedy. Two hardboy Jihadi's on the lamb join an all-bourka band. A blonde American harlot joins the band and sings unveiled. We'll film it in San Dieago.
There already is such a thing as the Burka Band -- Afghanistan's #1 all-female techno-rave dance band.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/26/2004 17:00 Comments ||
Top||
#9
I remember that now Mike... tho the link seems to be overwhelmed. But my vision has one of the Bourka Boys playing a Slax-A-Phone which he rented from Bob. .
Three relatives of an alleged would-be suicide bomber pleaded innocent Monday to charges in connection with a terrorist attack in Israel. Tahira Tabassum, 28, Zahid Sharif, 37, and Parveen Sharif, 36 - the wife, brother and sister of Omar Khan Sharif, 27, who reportedly fled after a bomb he allegedly carried failed to detonate near a Tel Aviv bar - were all charged with failing to disclose information about terrorism. Parveen Sharif, a teacher, is also charged with inciting Sharif to commit an act of terrorism. She denied that charge also.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't me."
Omar Sharifâs body was found floating in the sea off the coast of Israel 12 days after an April 30 suicide bomb attack at a bar in Tel Aviv... This is a good start - I hope the family/associates of Asif Hanif are receiving similar scrutiny
Posted by: Lux ||
04/26/2004 11:19:53 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
excellent. This reminds me of all those American donors to the IRA who never felt any backlash for the misery they were funding on the other side of the Atlantic. Imams and family members in western, free countries, who provide emotional, logistical and financial support for terror ought to feel the full brunt of the consequences of their actions.
A radical Muslim cleric, who applauded the September 11 attacks and was banned from preaching at a London Mosque, is set to begin an appeal today against a ruling stripping him of his British citizenship.
Abu Hamza al-Masri became the first person to have his British citizenship revoked last April after new measures were brought in to deport immigrants whose words or actions are deemed to "seriously prejudice" British interests.
Britain said Egyptian-born Masri would launch his appeal against the government's decision at London's Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) on Monday when the chairman of the tribunal would set a date for a full hearing.
"The chairman may lay out things like what evidence is admissible and how much of it will be in secret," a SIAC spokeswoman said.
Masri, who holds a British passport through marriage to a British woman, has become a hate figure for tabloid newspapers because of his radical views, which include applauding the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
The cleric, who is missing an eye and has a hook in place of his right hand after being wounded fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, was banned from preaching at Finsbury Park Mosque in north London after police raided it in January 2003 as part of a wider-anti-terrorism operation.
He has continued to preach on the road outside.
In court documents relating to foreign nationals held without charge in the U.K under emergency anti-terror laws, Britain accuses Masri of using his spiritual position to recruit young Muslims for "extremist causes overseas".
"Abu Hamza has acted as a focal point for extreme Islamist groupings, networks and individuals in the U.K, drawing together individuals whose antecedents lie in different national agendas and directing attention on shared agendas such as Chechnya and Afghanistan," the documents say.
Masri -- nicknamed Dr Hook by the tabloid press -- is not expected to appear at Monday's hearing.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:21:04 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Oh, brother! The sooner Britain gets rid of this scumbag the better!
Posted by: Jen ||
04/26/2004 1:14 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Jen - yep, along with a few thousand of his fellow scumbags...
#3
Let's see, he is Muslim and he is missing one hand. Thieves get their hand chopped in Muslim lands. Wonder if it was that who made Captain Hook lose his hand.
#7
It's getting to the point where someone's going to 'stick one on' this guy. They'll have a job getting through the police protection but I reckon a cadre of fifty Millwall fans could pull it off with style - pref one Friday a.m.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/26/2004 4:35 Comments ||
Top||
#8
"seriously prejudice"
Hmmm..I guess that's a new phrase for, "treason, but it would be counterproductive to hang you so we'll just monitor you until you are no longer useful and then deport you".
#9
The cleric, who is missing an eye and has a hook in place of his right hand after being wounded fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan,
And ex-President Jimmy Crack-Peanuts boycotted the Olympics, and banned any US citizen from going because of creeps like this. Thank you Jimmy! The former SU should not have gone into Afghanistan, but even a quarter-century later, "one-eyed stumpy" is another reason the boycott was useless.
The call to jihad is rising in the streets of Europe, and is being answered, counterterrorism officials say. In this former industrial town north of London, a small group of young Britons whose parents emigrated from Pakistan after World War II have turned against their families' new home. They say they would like to see Prime Minister Tony Blair dead or deposed and an Islamic flag hanging outside No. 10 Downing Street. They swear allegiance to Osama bin Laden and his goal of toppling Western democracies to establish an Islamic superstate under Shariah law, like Afghanistan under the Taliban. They call the Sept. 11 hijackers the "Magnificent 19" and regard the Madrid train bombings as a clever way to drive a wedge into Europe.
On Thursday evening, at a tennis center community hall in Slough, west of London, their leader, Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammad, spoke of his adherence to Osama bin Laden. If Europe fails to heed Mr. bin Laden's offer of a truce â provided that all foreign troops are withdrawn from Iraq in three months â Muslims will no longer be restrained from attacking the Western countries that play host to them, the sheik said. "All Muslims of the West will be obliged," he said, to "become his sword" in a new battle. Europeans take heed, he added, saying, "It is foolish to fight people who want death â that is what they are looking for."
On working-class streets of old industrial towns like Crawley, Luton, Birmingham and Manchester, and in the Arab enclaves of Germany, France, Switzerland and other parts of Europe, intelligence officials say a fervor for militancy is intensifying and becoming more open. In Hamburg, Dr. Mustafa Yoldas, the director of the Council of Islamic Communities, saw a correlation to the discord in Iraq. "This is a very dangerous situation at the moment," Dr. Yoldas said. "My impression is that Muslims have become more and more angry against the United States." Hundreds of young Muslim men are answering the call of militant groups affiliated or aligned with Al Qaeda, intelligence and counterterrorism officials in the region say. Even more worrying, said a senior counterterrorism official, is that the level of "chatter" â communications among people suspected of terrorism and their supporters â has markedly increased since Mr. bin Laden's warning to Europe this month. The spike in chatter has given rise to acute worries that planning for another strike in Europe is advanced. "Iraq dramatically strengthened their recruitment efforts," one counterterrorism official said. He added that some mosques now display photos of American soldiers fighting in Iraq alongside bloody scenes of bombed out Iraqi neighborhoods. Detecting actual recruitments is almost impossible, he said, because it is typically done face to face.
And recruitment is paired with a compelling new strategy to bring the fight to Europe. Members of Al Qaeda have "proven themselves to be extremely opportunistic, and they have decided to try to split the Western alliance," the official continued. "They are focusing their energies on attacking the big countries" â the United States, Britain and Spain â so as to "scare" the smaller states. Some Muslim recruits are going to Iraq, counterterrorism officials in Europe say, but more are remaining home, possibly joining cells that could help with terror logistics or begin operations like the one that came to notice when the British police seized 1,200 pounds of ammonium nitrate, a key bomb ingredient, in late March, and arrested nine Pakistani-Britons, five of whom have been charged with trying to build a terrorist bomb.
Stoking that anger are some of the same fiery Islamic clerics who preached violence and martyrdom before the Sept. 11 attacks. On Friday, Abu Hamza, the cleric accused of tutoring Richard Reid before he tried to blow up a Paris-to-Miami jetliner with explosives hidden in his shoe, urged a crowd of 200 outside his former Finsbury Park mosque to embrace death and the "culture of martyrdom." Though the British home secretary, David Blunkett, has sought to strip Abu Hamza of his British citizenship and deport him, the legal battle has dragged on for years while Abu Hamza keeps calling down the wrath of God. Also this week, over Mr. Blunkett's vigorous objection, a 35-year-old Algerian held under emergency laws passed after Sept. 11 was released from Belmarsh Prison. The man, identified only as "G," suffered from severe mental illness, his lawyers told a special immigration appeals panel, which let him out of prison and put him under house arrest. Mr. Blunkett insisted that that should not be the final judgment on a man already found by one court "to be a threat to life and liberty."
In an interview on the BBC over the weekend, Mr. Blunkett advocated a stronger deportation policy, initially focused on 12 foreign terror suspects held without charge since the Sept. 11 attacks. Despite tougher antiterrorism laws, the police, prosecutors and intelligence chiefs across Europe say they are struggling to contain the openly seditious speech of Islamic extremists, some of whom, they say, have been inciting young men to suicidal violence since the 1990's. One chapter in Sheik Omar's lectures these days is "The Psyche of Muslims for Suicide Bombing." The authorities say that laws to protect religious expression and civil liberties have the result of limiting what they can do to stop hateful speech. In the case of foreigners, they say they are often left to seek deportation, a lengthy and uncertain process subject to legal appeals, when the suspect can keep inciting attacks.
That leaves the authorities to resort to less effective means, such as mouse-trapping Islamic radicals with immigration violations in hopes of making a deportation case stick. "In many countries, the laws are liberal and it's not easy," an official said. At a mosque in Geneva, an imam recently exhorted his followers to "impose the will of Islam on the godless society of the West."
"It was quite virulent," said a senior official with knowledge of the sermon. "The imam was encouraging his followers to take over the godless society." While such a sermon may be incitement, recruitment takes a more shadowy course, and is hard to detect, a senior antiterrorism official said. "Believers are appealed to in the mosques, but the real conversations take place in restaurants or cafes or private apartments," the official said. While some clerics, like Abu Qatada â said to be the spiritual counselor of Mohamed Atta, who led the Sept. 11 hijacking team â remain in prison in Britain without charge, others like Sheik Omar, leader of a movement called Al Muhajiroun, carry on a robust ideological campaign. "There is no case against me," Sheik Omar said in an interview. Referring to calls by members of Parliament that he be deported, he added, "but they are Jewish" and "they have been calling for that for years."
Among his ardent followers is Ishtiaq Alamgir, 24, who heads Al Muhajiroun in Luton and calls himself Sayful Islam, the sword of Islam. He says there are about 50 members here but exact numbers are secret. Most days, he and a handful of his followers run a recruitment stand on Dunstable Road much to the chagrin of the Muslim elders of Luton. Mainstream Muslims are outraged by the situation, saying the actions of a few are causing their communities to be singled out for surveillance and making the larger population distrustful of them. Muhammad Sulaiman, a stalwart of the mainstream Central Mosque here, was penniless when he arrived from the Kashmiri frontier of Pakistan in 1956. He raised money to build the Central Mosque here and now leads a campaign to ban Al Muhajiroun radicals from the city's 10 mosques. "This is show-off business," he says in accented English. "I don't want these kids in my mosque." Other community leaders look to the government to do something, if only to help prevent the demonization of British Muslims, or "Islamophobia," as some here call it. "I think these kids are being brainwashed by a few radical clerics," said Akhbar Dad Khan, another elder of the Central Mosque. He wants them prosecuted or deported. "We should be able to control this negativity," he said.
In Slough, Sheik Omar spent much of his time Thursday night regaling his young followers with the erotic delights of paradise â sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women â while he also preached the virtues of death in Islamic struggle as a ticket to paradise. He spoke of terrorism as the new norm of cultural conflict, "the fashion of the 21st century," practiced as much by Tony Blair as by Al Qaeda. "We may be caught up in the target as the people of Manhattan were," he told them. And he warned Western leaders, "You may kill bin Laden, but the phenomenon, you cannot kill it â you cannot destroy it. Our Muslim brothers from abroad will come one day and conquer here and then we will live under Islam in dignity."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:17:16 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Native EUropeons excel at two endeavors: Totalitarianism and Genocide. As the EU morphs into the Neo-Third Reich should there be significant Islamo-fascist terrorism look for the Native EUropeons to send Muslim men, women and children to the ovens.
#2
typical ny times blames it on bush invasion of iraq--which the twin tower bombers had a premonition of--not
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
04/26/2004 1:59 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Maybe it's time for tougher incitement laws.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/26/2004 4:17 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Rafael - I attended a football match recently where I stupidly referred to one of the Arsenal players as a gypsy. I did this within earshot of a policeman who threatened me with arrest for incitement. However, we have this guy, publicly spouting the worst kind of hatred in the same neighbourhood and he's not being touched. The law is simply not being applied to Hamza - prob due to the 'flypaper' theory one rantburger came up with recently. It's very handy for MI5 to leave this guy in situ and infiltrate his mob. I bet some of the nutters listening to him on a Friday morning are MI5/6 anyway.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/26/2004 4:45 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Son of Tolui, if you read the article carefully you'll see that the incitements started in the 1990s ....
#6
In an interview on the BBC over the weekend, Mr. Blunkett advocated a stronger deportation policy, initially focused on 12 foreign terror suspects held without charge since the Sept. 11 attacks.
...and the Brits are pissed at us about Guantamano? Ho much you want to be that each EU country has a similar number being held without charges?
#7
I don't think we're pissed-off with you over Guantanamo - Whilst some are concerned I think the man in the street understood the need for some such facility - thankfully we have our own Guantanamo - HMP Belmarsh. The returnees from Guantanamo should have stood trial for treason and been hung if found guilty. I dread to think who's being held in here - make Cap'n Hook look like a pussycat.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/26/2004 9:30 Comments ||
Top||
#8
11A5S - I don't think you should condemn our EU counterparts over this one. We have plenty among our own ranks who are upset over the fact that they don't get prime rib for breakfast in Guantanamo.
#10
is there not any laws in euro regarding sedition?
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 10:49 Comments ||
Top||
#11
"To bad it is going to take mass slaughter to wake-up Old Euorpe.Thats what it took here."
Frankly, I don't think we're fully awake yet, ourselves. We're still trying desperately to hang on to our open, tolerant society, and still denying what is becoming increasingly self-evident: that Islam may be fundamentally incompatible with a free society.
I'm becoming more and more discouraged about our "Arab Democracy Experiment" in Iraq. While I'm willing to keep the faith a while longer, my hopes are running out.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/26/2004 10:49 Comments ||
Top||
#12
Dave - the alternative is too awful to contemplate.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/26/2004 10:58 Comments ||
Top||
#13
Why doen't the Brits spread a few rumors around.
For example they could say that there is gold and stuff in a few of these cleric's homes or Mosques. That would increase the chances of a crook being hurt when the Cleric and his folks defend their stuff from the breakin. Killing someone while defending your stuff can get you a decade in jail.
Or perhaps spread the rumor around that there is a large batch of ammonia nitrate being held at x location. When the Jihadists come to grab it a work accident can be arranged.
A rumor that a vast majority of bullets and weapons in the UK are packed using Pigs grease to get the Jihadists reluctant to use them.
Or an annoucement that pig fat has been used in the wood treatment on most caskets in the UK and although the process is being changed... Might convince a few immigrants to go somewhere else in case they get killed and buried.
Or an annoucement that that all cell phone calls and trips to Islamic nations are being monitored.
Spreading rumors should be done in the most denyable way possible of course. They can and should be denied by the government as untrue. But for a conspiricy addled culture there will be believers.
#14
"Dave - the alternative is too awful to contemplate."
Not for me, it isn't. Not any more.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/26/2004 11:44 Comments ||
Top||
#15
ruprecht - Why doen't the Brits spread a few rumors around.
and A rumor that a vast majority of bullets and weapons in the UK are packed using Pigs grease to get the Jihadists reluctant to use them. Or an annoucement that pig fat has been used in the wood treatment on most caskets in the UK and although the process is being changed...
ruprecht -
Chicharones or "Fried Pig Skins" very popular in the US would be another thing to spread around.
We could send some to any creative person in the UK to maximize stress of the jihadis.
The only question is, With or without chili powder?
#16
"Sheik Omar spent much of his time Thursday night regaling his young followers with the erotic delights of paradise â sweet kisses and the pleasures of bathing with scores of women."
Then he says "Our Muslim brothers from abroad will come one day and conquer here and then we will live under Islam in dignity," he said.
Okay okay okay okay okay. LOL!!! This is so rich: Living under Islam in dignity (everyone got that bullsh-t picture? ) Compare with what comes to mind here: "the pleasures of bathing with scores of women." (You mean, an orgy, right?)
Okay okay okay okay okay. So. (LOL!) This is how it goes:
If you, as a Moslem man, degrade and oppress your females now--through the destruction of their self-worth and individuality, lack of educational opportunities, the horrors of infibulation, other various and sundry maltreatments, and by forcing them to wear silly outfits that constrict and "bury" their femininity--and then blow yourself up, killing a sufficient number of westerners along with you--you can then "graduate" to the grand level of going on to further debase "scores" of (very beautiful, flawless, in-perfect-condition, young--at least under 25 years of age--virginal) women (where'd they come from, again?) by placing them in the position (sorry) of being your private sex objects in some ridiculous, weak, teenage fantasy, where you're the star player and all these thousands of women, without question, somehow willingly, and with utter abandon, flock to pamper and tease "your very own" (and "oh, so special") ugly, absurd, lewd, lecherous, nastiness with "sweet kisses" and, ah-hem, other such things!?
They've got to be kidding? How unreal can these guys get? Talk about self-deception! Talk about a structured, sanctioned, justification for what these guys must engage in thinking about when they're by themselves . . . ( I will pause for a moment while we empty the contents of our stomachs . . .) And this is what they talk about in their "RELIGIOUS" mosques?!! And we in the West are worried about offending "sensibilities"--their "HONOR"--We're worried about transgressing on the supposed "holiness" of their places of "worship"? LOL!!! Come on! (And as one thinks about what they are actually worshiping in those places, the meaning of "pagan temple" suddenly gains new meaning . . . "worthy of destruction" comes to mind . . . )
Like I've always said, the WOT, from their perspective, is all about an attempt to affirm their empty, pathetic, impotent form of "masculinity."
This is the only way their little story could work (annoyed sigh): the "paradise" babes have 1) been "healed" miraculously of the mutiliation of their genitals--and all is simply forgiven and forgotten on that account (tra-la-la!), 2) have become totally "immodest" in polar-opposite contrast to their life here on earth (if you want to put it that way--I mean, WOW--goodbye burka, huh?!) and 3) have left their underdeveloped brains, as well as whatever smidgen of personhood they ever possessed, back on earth, in order to become the eternal single-focus sex slaves of some Islamotwerp who's totally in love with himself. Well, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it.
But, they must be alien paradise babes. That's it. Alien babes from the planet Ditz-o-rama.
Then these guys say they will "impose the will of Islam on the godless society of the West" and that "the imam was encouraging his followers to take over the godless society." WE'RE "godless?" US?!! LOL!!
These guys need to go home and figure out how to love their wives and raise their daughters. Good grief!
You know, this Islamic nonsense just keeps getting better and better.
#17
It's going to end up being either them or us. It's not going to be "them" as long as I draw breath. It'll be a lot easier to start now, while we still have more people on our side.
Islam is the religion of the loser. Mohammed was pissed that Isaac, although born second, inherited the birthright of Abraham, instead of Ishmael, who was born of the servant Hagar. The Bible says that Isaac is the son of Abraham through his wife Sarah, which in old-testament times, would give him the highest claim. Islam is a re-write of history to "prove" that in actuality, it is Ishmael and his descendants (the Arabs) that actually are the "chosen of God", not the Jews. We have the same thing being done in our leftist "institutions of higher learning" today, with modern history. There are only two ways to end the argumaent: God Himself will have to come and judge, or one side kills the other off completely. Islam is betting on the second option.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/26/2004 13:35 Comments ||
Top||
#18
Old Patriot -
I think a more pertinent arguement is that where in time the polytheistic Romans came to embrace Christianity, their descendants resisted Islam and for at least awhile drove it out of most of Europe, and the resistance became stronger over time.
The problem is the current state of the lack of self-preservation in certain European cultures such as France and Spain.
Those of us who are Christian, and prize Western Civilization, yet do not neccesarily take a Revelationist view of the future see a more practical opposition to the Islamists. Christianity and Judaism values life, Islamism seeks death.
#20
The Left is starting to wake up. IIRC, this is the second semi-honest article that the NYT has run on the threat.
The more that I read, the more that I am convinced that Europe is the strategic decisive point for this war. It's not that the Arab lands aren't important, I just don't see any opportunity for decisive action there yet. If we secure our strategic flank in Europe, then we can take the war to Dar al Arab.
And when I say secure our European flank, I don't mean in the Kerry-esque manner of being buddies with the French. We need a fundamental Lockean revolution on the Continent. Some of that is already happening in East Europe. Others, like Sabine Herold are trying to effect this change in old Europe.
We don't need Europe to fight Islamism, but Islamists need Europe to fight us. The task before us is to destroy 2nd International Socialism and replace it with Lockean government and Hayekian economics. If we don't, the Islamists will triangulate between Europe and us. Nuclear armed France in particular seems to be fond of coddling the Islamists. Meanwhile, the Islamists will continue to infiltrate a nihilistic and demographically dying Europe with the goal of conquest through high birth rates.
As long as Europe continues to absorb Dar al Islam's excess population and subsidizes and supports corrupt and theocratic governments, decisive action in the Arab core will be impossible. The Arab people need to feel the effects of their medieval policies. And by "feel" I dont mean not being able to buy the lastest in wide screen TV's. I mean starvation, civil war, and death. When these conditions exist that will mean that the Europeans have stopped enabling Arab backwardness. Then we can take decisive action against the Saudi and Iranian oilfields and begin drying up the money that funds International Jihad.
B: I agree and disagree. We have indivduals condemning Guantanamo. Europe has whole governments condemning Gitmo. Meanwhile, most EU states have anti-terror laws that make the Patriot Act look downright utopian.
#21
Frankly, I don't think we're fully awake yet, ourselves.
Definitely we've hit the snooze bar here in the US. If someone were to show the planes hitting the buildings again in regular time (no music, no slo-mo) I think it would have the effect of cold water being thrown on any sleeper.
The verdict is due in the case of three alleged IRA men charged with training rebels and travelling on false passports in Colombia. The trial of James Monaghan, Niall Connolly and Martin McAuley ended in Bogota more than eight months ago. They are accused of training left-wing Farc rebels in the use of explosives and using false documentation. The men were arrested in August 2001 as they stepped off a plane from an area which was a Farc stronghold. Their arrest led to speculation that dissident Irish republicans had formed links with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Farc). The three men had previously refused to attend the trial because of fears for their safety, but later in the trial they protested their innocence in addresses to the non-jury court. Last Friday a journalist following the case, Mark Duffy said he had spoken to the judge who had told him he would deliver his verdict on Monday. If the men are found guilty, they face a maximum 20 years in prison. Mr McAuley is from Northern Ireland, while the other two are from the Irish Republic. Nowt better than watching these idiots cower in a Colombian courtroom. Twenty years sounds fine to me. Take your McJihad and stick it in your...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/26/2004 5:14:49 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
20 years in a Columbian prision,sounds good to me,Howard.
#2
Three Irishmen have been acquitted on charges they trained Colombian rebels but were jailed for travelling on false passports and identity documents. The men were given sentences ranging from two years and two months to three years and eight months and will be expelled from Colombia once their terms have been completed, said court official Emilia Montanez.
Defendants James Monaghan, Niall Connolly and Martin McCauley were not present as the verdict was read out following their nine-month trial in the capital Bogota. The three were arrested in August 2001, after they left a rebel safe haven, which had been granted by the government during peace talks which later collapsed in February, 2002.
Monaghan was sentenced to three years and eight months, McCauley to three years and eight days and Connolly to two years and two months. The court statement did not say whether the men would be credited with time served in prison during the trial.
Not enough evidence or witnesses willing to testify to prove they trained anyone.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 13:10 Comments ||
Top||
#3
"Yez got nuttin' on me, coppers! Da witnesses is all dead!"
Posted by: Fred ||
04/26/2004 19:46 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Now I may be new arround here but a true IRA - Jihad
connection...??
I have read some IRA members trained at Iranian backed training camps in Lebanon.. but a true conection? If anyone could elaborate...
From the April 4, 2004, News Herald (Florida) - via Robert Prather EFL
By Phil Lucas
If straight talk of savagery offends you, if you believe in ethnic and gender diversity but not diversity of thought or if you think there is an acceptable gray area between good and evil, then turn to the funny pages, and take the children, too. This piece is not for you.
We published pictures Thursday of burnt American corpses hanging from an Iraqi bridge behind a mob of grinning Muslims. Some readers didnât like it. Mothers said it frightened their children. A woman who works with Muslim physicians thought it might offend or endanger them. Well, we sure donât want to frighten, offend or endanger anybody, do we? Thatâs just too much diversity to handle. I mean, somebody might get hurt.
We could fill the newspaper every morning with mobs of fanatical Muslims. They canât get along with their neighbors on much of the planet: France, Chechnya, Bosnia, Indonesia, Spain, Morocco, India, Tunisia, Somalia, etc. etc. etc. Can anybody name three ongoing world conflicts in which Muslims are not involved? Today, where there is war, there are fanatical Muslims. We might quibble about who started what conflicts, but look at the sheer number of them. One thing is sure. Muslim killers started the one we are in now when they slaughtered more than 3,000 people, including fellow Muslims, in New York City.
Madeline Albright, the former secretary of state and feckless appeaser who helped get us into this mess, said last week Muslims still resented the Crusades. Well, Madame Albright, if Westerners were not such a forgiving people, we might resent them too. Letâs recap the Crusades. Muslims invaded Europe and when they reached sufficient numbers they imposed their intolerant religion upon Westerners by force. Christian monarchs drove them back and took the battle to their homeland. The fight lasted a couple of centuries, and we bottled them up for 1,000 years. Now, a millennium later, Muslims have expanded forth again. Ask France. Ask England. Ask Manhattan. Two-and-a-half years ago fanatical Muslims laid siege to us. We woke up to the obvious. Our president announced it would be a very long war, then took the battle to the Islamic homeland. Sound familiar?
Look at your spouse and children. Look at yourself in the mirror. Then look at the pictures from the paper last Thursday. You better look at them. Those are the people out to kill you. Who do you think will win? You? Or them? Think you can take your ball and go home and they will leave you alone? Read a little history. Start with last week, last month, last year, and every other year back for half a century. Then go back a thousand years. Nobody hides from this fight. Like it or not, thatâs the way it was and thatâs the way it is. But many Americans donât get it. Thatâs why we published those pictures. If they jarred you off the sofa, if they offended you, if they scared your children and sent you into a rage at mass murderers or heartless editors, then I say, itâs a start. Read the whole thing at the link. This piece is truly on target. I can hear the howls of the easily offended from here. Good.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut bskolaut@hotmail.com ||
04/26/2004 4:38:56 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Phil Lucas and Phil Harris... looks like the NewsHerald is starting it's own Army of Phil.
Posted by: Cthulhu Akbar ||
04/26/2004 17:00 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Ummm... minor nit: this is a duplicate of an item posted on RB earlier today.
Great article, though!
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/26/2004 17:37 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Dave D.: Was it? Sorry - didn't see it.
Still, it's good enough to deserve posting twice. :-p
Cthulhu: My fault - Fred fixed the error. (That's what I get for typing from memory instead of copy and paste.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/26/2004 18:27 Comments ||
Top||
The death of former NFL player Pat Tillman on Thursday in Afghanistan marked the first fatality of a pro football player in combat since Buffalo Bills guard Bob Kalsu was killed in 1970.
Tillman and Kalsu shared a common bond in serving their country: Neither was forced to go to the front lines.
Tillman turned down a three-year, $3.6 million contract offer to join the Army in 2001. Kalsu was called to active duty after his rookie season with the Bills in 1968. He very likely could have opted for reserve service in the United States. Most other draftable pro athletes elected to serve in the reserves, and friends of Kalsu urged him to seek the Billsâ help in finding a slot in the reserves. Kalsu refused, telling them, "Iâm no better than anyone else."
In fact, only seven active pro athletes served in Vietnam: six football players and a bowler.
Kalsu was a first lieutenant in the Army when he was killed by mortar fire while defending Ripcord Base on an isolated jungle mountaintop near Vietnamâs A Shau Valley. The date was July 21, 1970. He was the only professional athlete killed while serving in Vietnam.
Billy Shaw, one of the Billsâ six Pro Football Hall of Famers, played with Kalsu and was moved by the news Friday of Tillmanâs death. "What a tremendous character makeup both of these individuals had to put their careers on hold to defend our country," Shaw said from his home in Georgia. "It makes me proud to be an NFL alumnus and an American to know that someone that is in our fraternity would sacrifice some or all of his career for us to enjoy our way of life in this country. They are the real Hall of Famers."
Kalsu was a native of Oklahoma City and was an All-American tackle at Oklahoma. He served in the Reserve Officer Training Corps in college. Kalsu was an eighth-round pick of Buffalo in 1968. He started nine games that season and was voted the teamâs top rookie. "What I remember most about Bob was he was a very, very smart kid and he was a happy kid; he always had a smile on his face," said former Bills trainer Ed Abramoski. "I remember the coaches saying if he made a mistake, he wasnât going to make the same one twice."
Kalsu was survived by his wife and two children, the second of which (Bob Kalsu Jr.) was born two days after Kalsu died in Vietnam.
Kalsuâs name was inducted onto the Billsâ Wall of Fame in 2000, and his memory has been honored numerous times since. A community building at Fort Sill in Lawton, Okla., bears his name. So does Amvets Post 61 in Hamburg. The Jim Thorpe Association, a charitable group with ties to college football, hands out a patriotism award in his name. The replacement company at Fort Campbell in Kentucky became the 1st Lt. James Robert Kalsu Replacement Company. Part of that unit is serving in Iraq.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/26/2004 2:36:33 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
The DOJ is touting the role of the Patriot Act in streamlining the investigation.
It is also a pointed reminder to Islamo apologists that the Act works both ways, not that terror-symps will care, since they know that the most effective terrorists are on their side.
FEDERAL AUTHORITIES ARREST TEXAS MAN FOR MAKING BIAS-MOTIVATED THREAT ON TEXAS ISLAMIC CENTER
Patriot Act Used To Address Threat In Near-Real Time
WASHINGTON, D.C.- The Department of Justice today announced the arrest of an El Paso man allegedly responsible for threatening to destroy an area Islamic Center. Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights R. Alexander Acosta and United States Attorney for the Western District of Texas Johnny Sutton announced the arrest of Jared Bjarnason for allegedly sending a threat to the El Paso Islamic Center on April 18, 2004.
Bjarnason, a 30-year-old resident of El Paso, Texas, was arrested yesterday following a complaint filed in the United States District Court for the Western District of Texas. The complaint charges the defendant with sending an electronic mail message to the Islamic Center threatening violence against the Center and its members. Specifically, the message threatened to burn the Islamic Centerâs mosque to the ground, if hostages held in Iraq were not freed within three days.
In investigating the threat, the El Paso office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation employed a provision of the USA PATRIOT Act, which permits providers of electronic mail services to provide electronic communications directly to law enforcement officials âif the provider reasonably believes that an emergency involving immediate danger of death or serious physical injury to any person justifies disclosure of the information.â
Absent this provision, investigating authorities would have had to obtain a separate search warrant from each service provider through whose system the e-mail traveled, a process which could have taken over 30 days. With the Patriot Actâs authority, agents were able to address the threat in near-real time.
The defendant is scheduled to have an initial appearance today before U.S. Magistrate Richard P. Mesa at 2:00 p.m. MT.
The crime charged is punishable by up to five years in prison and a fine. The defendant is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
This Bjarnason doesnât sound like the brightest bulb on the tree, first for sending his threat by traceable e-mail, and secondly for threatening a mosque rather than....a more relevant target. The latter point is a good indicator that he doesnât have a clue what is really going on and it is very doubtful whether he could have carried out his threat. Texas has a state law against making terroristic threats but violations are only a misdemeanor offense.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
04/26/2004 9:01:07 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"More KKKrushing of dissent in John AshKKKroft's AmeriKKKa! The Patriot Act is used again to silence--"
"Uh, excuse me, pardon the interruption, but the guy threatened to blow up a mosque. Don't you want guys that blow things up prosecuted, even if you are against the war?"
"Oh, uh, well, um . . . hey, look over there, it's the Enron scandal!"
Posted by: Mike ||
04/26/2004 12:27 Comments ||
Top||
#2
This Bjarnson must be king nitwit. If there is a specific Islamofacist cleric fomenting violence and approving hostage-taking, then let some of the more shadowy parts of the government help him have "An Accident" and quietly dissappear, hopefully not on US Soil. (This is work for the CIA or an equivalent organization) But making a mosque blow up would be prime Al-Jazzera fodder, and thus counterproductive.
Extremely EFL Money Quote:
"Tillmanâs story should be taught in our schools as a contemporary example of patriotic sacrifice. It seems as if he sprang out of the pages of Homer to remind us that the ancient virtues never die, and yet he came from our own age. His sacrifice for America is worthy of an honored place in our history."
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
04/26/2004 8:20:21 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"Tillmanâs story should be taught in our schools as a contemporary example of patriotic sacrifice.
Hahahahahahaha, with large numbers of America-hating sleazoids being employed by our public education system, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.
#2
While I have heard him discribed as a Nathen Hale for our time, he is no more of a hreo than any of the others who have made the ultimate sacrifice in OUR name. We owe all of them a debt that we can never repay.
#3
Amen. While I have infinite respect for him and he is indeed an inspriation to us all the news guys gushing about him is beginning tee me off. His sacrifice is no greater than any other guy that died in this damned war.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/26/2004 16:44 Comments ||
Top||
#4
and he is no less of a hero.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 16:46 Comments ||
Top||
"It could have been one of the European Unionâs proudest days. Ending the 30-year-old division between Greek and Turkish Cypriots would have been a powerful demonstration of the appeal Europeâs new ideas and ideals can have ... The EU and the UN bear some responsibility for this fiasco. The UN plan carried no penalty for a no vote from the Greek Cypriots. Indeed, the fact that they could dominate the government and still gain EU entry encouraged them to vote no ... The Greek Cypriots appear to have wagered that, once inside the EU, they could drive an even harder bargain with the Turks. It falls now to the rest of Europe to show them theyâve miscalculated." I pointed this out the day of the vote that the UN and EU set up the vote such that the Greek Cypriots could screw the Turkish Cypriots without apparent penalty. The Greeks happily obliged. Further evidence if it were neeed that the UN couldnât run a sweet (candy/lolly) store without it descending into farce.
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/26/2004 10:20:54 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Well, the penalty for a "no" on the Greek Cypriot side was supposedly that the Turkish Cypriot side remains under the occupation of Turkey's army, and that a hundred thousand (or more) Greek refugees won't be able to return to their homes. Likewise, about 10% of the island's territory won't be returning to Greek cypriot hands.
The same way that the penalty for the Turkish Cypriots was that they won't be entering the EU. Though they may end up receiving most of the benefits of entry either way.
#2
Further evidence if it were neeed that the UN couldnât run a sweet (candy/lolly) store without it descending into farce.
Like the reason we went to war.
Or the way Saddam got his weapons in the first place.
Sounds like were still in control of the UN
Posted by: Langs ||
04/26/2004 22:33 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Believe it or not, Katsaris, I'm with the Greeks on this one.
Turkish Cyprus was nothing but an armed invasion in 1974 and as such, they are occupiers of the northern end of the island.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/26/2004 22:38 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Two words: "flyover" and "Kurds".
I sense the hand of Ralph Peters in this ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
04/26/2004 22:43 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Having just "done" 5 years in Europe. I can speak with a little knowledge on this matter.
The European Union is an Oxymoron!!!
Ignorance, Deceit and "Hidden Prejudice" run amuck in that cesspool of humanity.
#6
LHR--Damn! There's got to be a story there! Please elaborate.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/26/2004 23:47 Comments ||
Top||
#7
There is no great story here. The EU is the largest Socialist Bureaucracy known to man. Larger than the Soviet Union in it's prime.
The tribes of the Gaul's and the Visigoths want to control everything. In 2500 or 3000 years of some form of civilization there is no common language between anyone of the eastern or western tribes of the European continent. The deceit and ignorance is the fact that 250 million people believe there actually unified with other countries in a form of currency and legislation.
The prejudice is the fact that neither the Gaul's or the Visigoths could care less about you or your tribe as long as you pay them tribute. It is the old frog in the pot story, you cook him slow he won't jump out(European Sheepels) you try to throw him into a boiling pot of water he jumps out (Americans). We know when were trying to be cooked, Euros don't. And they prove it over and over and over again. That is why the EU is an Oxymoron
Teachers in Thailandâs southern border region made nervous by further arson attacks on local schools over the weekend were told today that they would receive military protection at the start of the new academic year, while pupils from burnt out schools were promised extra tuition via satellite.
Army Commander-in-Chief Gen. Chaiyasit Shinawatra said that a battalion from the 2nd Army Area Command would be sent to the southern border region to boost morale and provide protection at the start of the new school term.
He also noted that several graduates among the armed forces had expressed willingness to help teach in southern schools, and would go immediately to the southern border region if told by the Ministry of Education to do so.
Schools have been one of the focal points of the recent violence in the southern border region, with the latest arson attack in Pattani over the weekend.
Gen. Chaiyasit also promised that if building work to repair schools razed by arson attacks could not be completed by the start of the school year, pupils would be offered tuition via satellite, with the teachers based in Hua Hin. The teachers are also asking permission to carry guns to work.
THE Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) main headquarters in Manila confirmed Friday that Abu Sayyaf Chieftain Khadaffy Janjalani's movement is closely being monitored by government troops here in the South, but refused to reveal his exact whereabouts, lest it will jeopardize the on-going operation.
The Information Officer of the Chief of Staff, Lt. Col. Daniel Lucero, disclosed that the troops have been "trailing the shadow" of Janjalani and his elite group, and it's just a matter of time when "they (Janjalani and his group members) can be pinned down at the right place and at the right time."
"We are closing in on him and we can not disclose to you in detail as these are operational matters," Lucero said.
Lucero neither denied nor confirmed if Janjalani and his small group have slipped out of his known sanctuary in Palembang, Sultan Kudarat, in Central Mindanao, where he has been said to be in hiding since last year.
An intelligence report that Janjalani and his group have returned to Basilan lately to consolidate his remaining loyal forces and also to rescue to his side the remaining 20 escapees, seven of them Abu Sayyaf suspects, is being looked into by Southcom.
The 20 escapees staged a Black Saturday mass jail break along with 33 others last April 10 from Basilan the provincial jail in Sumagdang, Isabela.
Southcom chief Lt. General Roy Kyamko has alerted his troops in Basilan to check the veracity of the report before launching hot-pursuit operation against then the eluding Abu Sayyaf leader and his group members, who accordingly wanted to reach Lantawan, the terrorists' birth place, where the remaining fugitives have fled and are being pursued for their recapture by government forces.
Southcom spokesman Lt. Col. Renoir Pascua revealed the military has been alerted especially in Basilan where Janjalani and close-in security Abu Sayyaf escorts could have returned based on an unconfirmed intelligence report reaching their headquarters.
103rd Army Brigade Commander Col. Rey Ferrer, the over-all military commander in Basilan island was directed to deploy operatives including covert assets to carefully ascertain the report.
Earlier, Ferrer assured that with four battalions under his command in Basilan, the dreaded Abu Sayyaf group and the existing MILF rebels in the province will not be capable of disturbing his AOR, especially this coming May 10 polls. He also belittled the recent escape of 53 prisoners, 33 of them we were recovered with 11 killed, as an isolated incident.
He expressed confidence that the remaining escapees -- all hoed-out in the forested complex of the adjacent town of Lantawan -- will soon fall into the military hands.
As for the MILF, Ferrer revealed that the rebels, particularly in Tuburan, Tipi-Tipo and Maluso towns, have shown their participation for the coming polls by attending political rallies and welcoming campaign sorties of candidates visiting their claimed territories.
The military had earlier declared that Janjalani, whose bounty for his capture dead or alive, has increased to P10 million by the government would fall "very soon."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:31:48 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
The chief of the National Police anti-terror division, Pranowo says ''there is additional, new evidence" showing Bashir's possible involvement in the bombings that killed 202 people. Earlier this month, a police spokesman said they would use testimony and statements from terrorism suspects detained in the Philippines, Thailand and Singapore in the Bashir probe. The spokesman said police would also study transcripts of US interviews with top terror suspect Hambali - a suspected senior figure in both JI and al Qaeda - who has been in US custody since his arrest last August in Thailand.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:15:50 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
Israelâs top soldier Gen. Yaalon confirms: Iraq modified aircraft for possible chemical attack on Israel before last yearâs US-led invasion. He identified drones, Tupolev-16s and Sukhois. Dozens at most hundreds of kilos of chemical materials would have sufficed. As to why no chemical or biological weapons found in Iraq, Yaalon said: perhaps they were transferred to neighboring country such as Syria.
#1
RWV - Those Israleis have a lot of bloodhound in them owing to a half-century of having to have so-much security 24/7.
It is now so endemic in the mindset of Israel that one would be foolish not to give a look see at almost anything they would suggest.
Bekaa, Lebanon is a good place to look, but I think they are likely to be "spittin distance" from the border, just out of sight, but not by very much. . .
Iraqâs current Governing Council president said Monday the United States has only itself to blame for the military deadlock at Najaf and Fallujah because it allowed its troops to change from "an army of liberation" to "an army of occupation." In an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, Massoud Barzani said the United States faces a dilemma: It must not be soft in the besieged cities and give insurgents "the impression that they have the upper hand," but it also must make sure civilians are not harmed if military force is used. The comments from a close U.S. ally in Iraq signal the deepening dissatisfaction between the United States and top Iraqi politicians. Barzani supported the U.S. war effort, and members of his militia fought alongside American soldiers in northern Iraq.
For more than a decade during Saddam Husseinâs rule, Barzaniâs Kurdistan Democratic Party and another Kurdish party controlled an autonomous area protected by U.S. warplanes. Barzaniâs forces continue to dominate parts of northern Iraq, a region that has been largely stable and quiet. Barzani, who holds the councilâs rotating presidency for April, spoke in one of the ornate marble-tiled rooms of a building once used by Saddamâs Ministry of Military Industry, now the offices of the U.S.-appointed Governing Council. Some members on the council seen by many Iraqis as tainted for their close association with the United States have complained that U.S. commanders have been heavy handed in Fallujah and launched military action without consulting them. Barzani meets with L. Paul Bremer, the top U.S. official in Iraq, several times a week to exchange views. When asked whether Bremer consults the council or merely tell them of U.S. decisions, Barzani said: "It depends on the nature ... of the subject."
"The fact that should not be forgotten is that Iraq today is under occupation," Barzani said. "Iraq does not have sovereignty or independence today." It also is seeing its bloodiest month since the U.S. invasion. At least 114 American soldiers and up to 1,200 Iraqis have died in April as U.S. soldiers confronted Shiite militiamen centered in the Shiite holy city of Najaf and Sunni militiamen in the city of Fallujah. U.S. soldiers still surround both cities, unable to force militants to disarm and fearful that assaulting the city would lead to many casualties on both sides. If the U.S. takes military action, Barzani said, the United States must make a "clear distinction between civilians and terrorist elements." But Barzani also cautioned that "at the same time, no impression can be given to the terrorists that they will be negotiated with or they are seeing any chance that they will win at the end of the day."
For decades, Barzaniâs KDP fielded tens of thousands of men opposed to Saddam. When asked what he would do to resolve the sieges of Fallujah and Najaf, Barzani became animated, gesturing rapidly as he spoke and raising his soft voice. "If it were me, I wouldnât have allowed it to come to this by making earlier mistakes," he said. "What was a mistake is, they were liberators," Barzani said. But the U.S. Army turned into "an army of occupation," he added. After Saddam was ousted last year, "an interim government could have immediately been set up. ... Sovereignty would be in the hands of the Iraqis and the Iraqis would be in the forefront of affairs," he said. The Iraqi army should not have been disbanded quickly but instead reformed and restructured, he said. Those revamped Iraqi forces could have controlled Iraqi cities with American forces backing them up and not patrolling inside of cities, Barzani added. "Certain problems could have been avoided had it been done in a better manner," he said. But Barzani said he was not pessimistic. For decades, Kurds were oppressed by Saddam and struggled for limited autonomy in the north of the country. Today, Barzani, a former rebel leader, heads the Governing Council. Hoshyar Zebari, a member of his KDP, is Iraqâs foreign minister, while one of Barzaniâs military commanders, Gen. Babakir Zebari, is Iraqâs top general. Asked if today is the golden age for Iraqi Kurds, Barzani replied: "Indeed, that is right. A major part of the rights of the Kurds has been accomplished."
#1
yawn.. ___ blames US for child skinning knee. ____ blames US for zit breakout before prom. ____blames US for _____.
Yawn...wake me up if they don't blame us for something.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 20:33 Comments ||
Top||
#2
B's comment hit the nail on the head. Iraqi blames the US...Palistinian blames the US...Saudi Arabian blames the US....Egyptian blames the US...Syrian blames the US..Pakistani blames the US...Iranian blames the US...Kuwaiti blames the US...Afghani blames the US...Muslims blame the US...etc.....Screw 'em all.
Posted by: Mark ||
04/26/2004 21:08 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Dammit - what's the use in having a puppet government if they're allowed to back-talk?
#4
If I wasn't sure that it would come back to bite us in the butt later, I'd say: let 'em kill each other, screw 'em. More and more, I'm coming around to the feeling that there are virtually NO moderate Arabs, only different degrees of cultural disease.
I don't know if Barzani's just playing politics, but he's sure coming across like a whiny, ungrateful SOB.
#5
Xbalanke: I don't know if Barzani's just playing politics, but he's sure coming across like a whiny, ungrateful SOB.
Karzai was the same way. Muslims see opposition to the US as a way to burnish their credentials. Barzani's probably hedging - the equivocal responses he's seen from the US military to the situation in Fallujah and Najaf in recent days may have convinced him that the US is the weak horse. I don't blame him - when Saddam was faced with similar insurrections, he killed his opponents by the tens of thousands, together with all their families and friends. Our Achilles heel is that we are unwilling to kill enough of the enemy to win decisively - where Saddam not only killed his enemies, he killed all of their friends and relatives and any bystanders who just happened to be around.
#7
In an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, Massoud Barzani said the United States faces a dilemma: It must not be soft in the besieged cities and give insurgents "the impression that they have the upper hand," but it also must make sure civilians are not harmed if military force is used.
What does this asshat think is going on with these delays in sweeping Fallujah and Najaf?
This is the predictable result of not using overwhelming force in a determined and prompt drive to kill off these "insurgents". Now, all those that are not willing to visibly stand by the U.S. are going to try nickel-and-diming us to death.
#9
GW...This is what you need to do:
1) move 2 carrier groups back into the theater..
2) Address the nation, tell us there is no hope of Democracy without 'zero tolerance'...
3) Give the residents of Falluja and Najef 48 hours to flee the cities...
4)Take the nation to code "Red"
5)Seal the Iraqi borders; warn the UN...
6)Destroy Falluja COMPLETELY.. wait 2 days (like in Japan)...
7)Repeat in Najef...
8)Call me in the morning, if further assist is needed!!
A workshop believed to be producing chemical munitions exploded in flames Monday moments after U.S. troops broke in to search it, killing two soldiers and wounding five. Jubilant Iraqis swarmed over the Americans' charred Humvees, waving looted machine guns, a bandolier and a helmet. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt did not say what sort of chemical agents were suspected of being supplied to insurgents from the Baghdad warehouse. After the blast, there was no sign of precautions against chemicals. ''Chemical munitions could mean any number of things,'' including smoke grenades, he said.
The cause of the Baghdad warehouse blast was unclear. Kimmitt said a large number of explosives were in the building, located in the northern neighborhood of Waziriyah. Asked about reports that the search team included members of the Iraq Survey Group the U.S. team looking for weapons of mass destruction Kimmitt said only: ''The inspection was by a number of coalition forces.'' He said the owner of the site was ''suspected of producing and supplying chemical agents'' to Iraqi insurgents, but did not elaborate.
The blast leveled the front half of the one-story building and set ablaze four Humvees parked outside. A U.S. soldier was taken away on a stretcher, her chest and face severely burned. Several Iraqis were pulled from the wreckage, including a woman who wept as she was carried over a man's shoulder to safety. Afterward, dozens of cheering teenagers started to smash the abandoned Humvees. One child climbed on a hood of one of the vehicles and beat it with a stick. A man held up a photo of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Iraqis stripped the vehicles of equipment, one carrying a heavy machine gun, another waving a U.S. helmet. One man sported military headphones. ''This is for the madman Bush, for the madman Bremer!'' said one youth as he waved a rifle, referring to President Bush and the top American administrator in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 6:33:16 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
I think Patrick Phillips called it in the previous thread..a trap.
#2
Don't we at least have an RRF company to secure the site? Are we really stretched that thin? They got a fricking ma deuce (.50 cal MG)?!?!?! Did they get the SINCGARS radios, too?
#4
You'd think that by this time the Army/Marines/whoever would understand the need to *completely* cleanse these sites so that they can't be used as the stage for a car swarm. By the time the crowd of *censored*s starts dancing around and acting tough, there should only be some soot on the ground to dance on.
Jordanian authorities said Monday they have broken up an alleged al Qaeda plot that would have unleashed a deadly cloud of chemicals in the heart of Jordan's capital, Amman. The plot would have been more deadly than anything al Qaeda has done before, including the September 11 attacks, according to the Jordanian government. U.S. intelligence officials expressed caution about whether the chemicals captured by Jordanian authorities were intended to create a "toxic cloud" chemical weapon, but they said the large quantities involved were at a minimum intended to create "massive explosions."
Officials said there is debate within the CIA and other U.S. agencies over whether the plotters were planning to kill innocent people using toxic chemicals. At issue is the presence of a large quantity of sulfuric acid among the tons of chemicals seized by Jordanian authorities. Sulfuric acid can be used as a blister agent, but it more commonly can increase the size of conventional explosions, according to U.S. officials. Nevertheless, U.S. intelligence officials called the capture of tons of chemicals that together could create several large conventional explosions "a big deal." The plot was within days of being carried out, Jordanian officials said, when security forces broke it up April 20.
In a nighttime raid in Amman, Jordanian security forces moved in on the terrorist cell. After the shooting stopped, four men were dead. Jordanian authorities said. They said at least three others were arrested, including Azmi Jayyousi, the cell's suspected ringleader, whom Jordanian intelligence alleges was responsible for planning and recruiting. On a confession shown on state-run Jordanian television, Jayyousi said he took orders from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a suspected terrorist leader who has been linked to al Qaeda and whom U.S. officials have said is behind some attacks in Iraq. "I took explosives courses, poisons high level, then I pledged allegiance to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, to obey him without any questioning," Jayyousi said.
Jordanian intelligence suspects Jayyousi returned from Iraq in January after a meeting with al-Zarqawi in which they allegedly plotted to hit the three targets in Amman. In a series of raids, the Jordanians said, they seized 20 tons of chemicals and numerous explosives. Also seized were three trucks equipped with specially modified plows, apparently designed to crash through security barricades. The first alleged target was the Jordanian intelligence headquarters. The alleged blast was intended to be a big one. "According to my experience as an explosives expert, the whole of the Intelligence Department will be destroyed, and nothing of it will remain, nor anything surrounding it," Jayyousi said.
Details of the alleged plot were shown Monday on Jordanian television, including graphics of how the cell apparently intended to carry out the attack. In an videotape shown on Jordanian TV, Hussein Sharif said Jayyousi recruited him as a suicide bomber. "The aim, Azmi told me, was to execute an operation to strike Jordan and the Hashemite Royal family, a war against the crusaders and infidels," Sharif said. "Azmi told me that this will be the first chemical attack that al Qaeda will execute." Jordanian authorities said the attack would have mixed a combination of 71 lethal chemicals, which they said has never been done before, including blistering agents to cause third-degree burns, nerve gas and choking agents. A Jordanian government scientist said the plot had been carefully worked out, with just the right amount of explosives to spread the deadly cloud without diminishing the effects of the chemicals. The blast would not burn up the poisonous chemicals but instead produce a toxic cloud, the scientist said, possibly spreading for a mile, maybe more.
The Jordanian intelligence buildings are within a mile of a large medical center, a shopping mall and a residential area. "And there is no one combination of antidote to treat nerve agent, choking agent and blistering agent," the scientist said. According to the televised confessions, $170,000 came from Zarqawi via messengers from Syria. In last week's raid, Jordanian forces seized cash, bomb-making equipment and weapons, investigators said. The Jordanian government said the videotapes were made with the full cooperation of the suspects and their attorneys.
The head of the group Azmi Jayousi shown confessing said he first met Zarqawi during his training in an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan and met him again in Iraq without giving any dates. "I pledged allegiance to Zarqawi and after the fall of Afghanistan I met him again in Iraq," said Jayousi, who had clearly identifiable bruises on his face and palm.
"Ooch! Ouch! I'll confess! Owwwww!"
"Zarqawi commissioned me to go to Jordan to wage military action," Jayousi said in the 20-minute broadcast where he calmly recounted how he carefully planned with his accomplices the chemical attacks using trucks. Jayousi said he set up a chemical factory near the northern city of Irbid close to the Syrian border and received $170,000 in financing and logistical aid along with fake passports and forged banknotes from Suleiman Darwish, an alleged Zarqawi aide living in Syria. The broadcast showed graphic pictures of the location of the alleged chemical plants and the trucks that were to be used in the attacks. But it did not say what type of chemical explosives were being prepared.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 4:59:06 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Damn! I'ma worried they may have the secret of the cootie bomb.
#2
Does one think that King Abdullah is a tad steamed at Baby Assad? If anyone thinks Syria's denials are valid . . .well, those sayings about the Brooklyn Bridge are a bit passe. . .
#3
This stuff came from Syria and had to be known to Syrian Intelligence and Baby Doc Assad. One of the bonehead mistakes of the Bush Administration is right after the fall of Baghdad, Colin Powell took a Mid-East tour, visited Baby Doc and told him the US would NOT invade Syria. Dumb, dumb, dumb. What's Colin Powell telling the folks killing Americans, coalition partners, Iraqis and attempting to kill tens of thousands of Jordanians? Where are the B-2's? Why aren't Damascus and Teheran being bombed?
AMMAN, Jordan (AP) - Al-Qaida plotted bombings and poison gas attacks against the U.S. Embassy and other targets in Jordan, two conspirators said in a confession aired Monday on Jordanian state television. Azmi al-Jayousi, identified as the head of the Jordanian cell of al-Qaida, appeared Monday in a 20-minute taped program and described meeting Jordanian militant Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi in neighboring Iraq to plan the foiled plot. A commentator said the plotters wanted to kill "80,000" Jordanians and had targeted the prime minister's office, intelligence headquarters and the U.S. Embassy. Another Jordanian suspect, car mechanic Hussein Sharif Hussein, was shown saying al-Jayousi asked him to buy vehicles and modify them so that they could crash through gates and walls.
"Junkyard Wars - Jihad Edition"
U.S. officials have offered a $10 million reward for al-Zarqawi's capture, saying he is a close associate of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden and is trying to build a network of foreign militants in neighboring Iraq to work on al-Qaida's behalf. His whereabouts are unknown. A Web site known for publicizing messages from Muslim extremists on Monday carried a purported claim of responsibility from al-Zarqawi for suicide boat attacks against Gulf oil terminals Saturday that killed three Americans and disabled Iraq's biggest terminal for more than 24 hours.
The Dread al-Qaida Navy makes it's appearance.
"I have pledged loyalty to Abu-Musab to fully be obedient and listen to him without discussion," al-Jayousi said in the Jordanian television segment. He said he first met al-Zarqawi in Afghanistan, where al-Jayousi said he studied explosives, "before Afghanistan fell." He said he later met al-Zarqawi in Iraq, but was not specific about when. The videotape also showed still photographs of al-Jayousi and nine other suspects. The commentator said four of those pictured had been killed in clashes with security forces.
Al-Jayousi said he received about $170,000 from al-Zarqawi to finance the plot and used part of it to buy 20 tons of chemicals. He did not identify the chemicals, but said they "were enough for all the operations in the Jordanian arena."
Still haven't heard what kind of chemicals. If he had to buy them they must be some kind of commercial grade, not Sammy's WMD stash.
Images of what the commentator said were vans filled with blue jugs of chemical explosives were included in the broadcast. Hussein, the car mechanic, said he met al-Jayousi in 1999 but did not clearly say when the terror plans were laid out. The bearded Hussein, looking anxious, said al-Jayousi told him the aim was "carrying out the first suicide attack to be launched by al-Qaida using chemicals" and "striking at Jordan, its Hashemite (royal family) and launching war on the Crusaders and nonbelievers.
Gee, can't imagine why he'd be nervous. Maybe the Security types just off-camera tapping their truncheons on their hands.
Officials said they had arrested the suspects in two raids in late March and early April. Last week, officials said four other terror suspects believed linked to the same conspiracy were killed in a shootout with police in Amman.
Government officials have said the suspects plotted to detonate a powerful bomb targeting Jordan's secret service and use poison gas against the prime minister's office, the U.S. Embassy and other diplomatic missions. Had the bomb exploded, it could have killed at least 20,000 people and wrecked buildings within a half-mile radius, the officials have said. No trial date has been set in the case.
They're busy writing the guilty verdict.
Airing suspects' confessions before their trial is unusual in Jordan. In 1998, six men accused of affiliation with a militant group confessed on television to planting a bomb that exploded outside an Amman hotel. Five years later, a court found them innocent.
The unusual move may be an attempt to answer critics who claim the government has exaggerated the terror danger to justify tightening security. Officials in Jordan, a moderate Arab nation with close ties to the United States and a peace treaty with Israel, say the kingdom has been repeatedly targeted by al-Qaida and other militant groups.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 4:35:30 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#3
Indeed, Mucky, the traditional KKK and neo-nazi gangs have gained a new lease on life since their central views now dovetail so well with those of their former enemies, the Lying Looney Left.
David Duke was writing antisemitic guest editorials for the Arab News, which praised him as "a prominent American politician", until American bloggers exposed him. Duke is still a popular speaker and honored guest in certain Gulf countries. Other traditional bigots, especially outspoken Holocaust deniers, have seen an upsurge in conference invitations and speaking engagements. What we are seeing is a new version of the notorious Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939.
#4
Hell, compare the words of that-which-shall-not-be-named-lest-it-infest-this-thread to those of Duke or other neo-Nazis.
FWIW -- I had the displeasure of attending the same college as this ass-hat. His computer login was the name of the gas used at the concentration camps, and he really liked causing problems. About the only good thing he did was expose just how racist some of the minority students were.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 17:54 Comments ||
Top||
#5
The trials of some of these fools are interesting, though. For instance, in this case, he had to be prosecuted for soliciting, rather than accessory, though the latter charge would seem to me more accurate. At that point, however, it gets pretty sticky.
Unfortunately, the real reason this bird was convicted was because he and his lawyer were too stupid to mount a defense. A gimmee. Re-examine it using the "soliciting for prostitution" criteria and the guy walks.
It is aggravating when the courts nail some criminal, not for his offenses, but by compromising the system. With all the laws on the books, they should nail them fair and square.
I am reminded some time ago, of a DA in North Carolina, I believe, who had half a dozen of these twits cold on legitimate felony charges, and blew it all by trying to charge them with "sedition." Just wanted to get his name in the papers, I guess.
Lastly, the *best* case of this sort I've ever heard of, and it was from the court reporter, was when the federal judge and the DA let the kook rant and rave his own defense for four days straight, without objection. He concluded only after his throat was burned out, but was so happy that he had finally gotten his "say in court", that he actually thanked the judge on getting the maximum 3 years for his offense.
Marines in Fallujah said they killed at least 11 insurgents in an ambush Saturday after laying still and silent for hours in buildings deep inside the embattled northwest corner of the city. "Marines can go to sleep tonight knowing they killed (some) bad guys," said 2nd Lt. Josh Jamison, leader of the 2nd Platoon, which infiltrated some 400 yards ahead of its defensive lines to finally put down some of the rebels who daily sneak up to shoot rifles and fire rocket-propelled grenades at the Marines. One squad killed five men who were carrying machine guns, the Marines said, and another squad, assisted by a tank that rolled up to help, killed six other insurgents who tried to counter the attack. No Marines were reported killed or wounded.
"They were definitely moving like trained military, bounding up the street using the buildings for cover," said Jamison, when he and his men returned to their lines just after 9 p.m. Saturday after hiding out and stalking the enemy for more than 20 hours. "These were definitely guys that were coming up on our pos (position) to (do us harm)." The Marines, members of Camp Pendletonâs Fox Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, sneaked out of the houses theyâve occupied for nearly three weeks at 1 a.m. Saturday. They slowly and quietly crept south house to house toward a mosque where gunmen gather almost daily to lead attacks against American troops. They said their mission was originally a probe — a secret move behind enemy lines to check out their defenses and identify enemy positions as targets for a possible Marine offensive. That offensive is expected within days, according to military leaders, if rebels trapped in the city do not hand in their heavy weapons and the cityâs residents do not turn in those who killed four American security contractors March 31.
On Saturday, after inching their way through buildings and homes full of broken glass and household goods scattered on the floors after weeks of warfare, the Marines set in near the mosque and waited all day until almost dark. "It was ghostly," said Cpl. Christopher Ebert, 21, of Forest City, N.C., after he and the others arrived back in their defensive position together and safe Saturday night. "We only had about three hours to go and then these six guys showed up." After the six armed men entered the mosque, the Marines radioed what they saw to Fox Company commander Capt. Kyle Stoddard, who watched the mosque from atop a building some 400 yards away. Moments later, at 7:10 p.m., Stoddard and others listened to the burst of fire as the insurgents ran out and Marines opened fire at close range. The deadly ambush was over in an instant. "We got âem!" Jamison yelled. "Theyâre dead!"
The tank and the other squad battled back a hasty counterattack from the southeast. Insurgents fired mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and drove three vehicles down the street with gunmen firing rifles at the Marines. Two of the vehicles were disabled, and Marines said they believed their occupants were dead or wounded. Within an hour, the insurgents seemed defeated or had fled the area. The Marines said they then searched the mosque, searched the bodies, and lined them up in the street before they beat an uncontested retreat back to their positions in the north. "It was a long day — long day," said Pfc. Philip Marquez, 21, of Coachella, having just returned from the fight. "But it was worth the wait."
The Marines returned from the fight elated, patting one another on the back and shaking hands. Treated to a cooked meal instead of the normal packaged rations, the excited troops shed their gear in the dark and huddled around a digital video of the fighting recorded by a Marine combat cameraman. "Thatâs the way itâs done," said Sgt. Warren Hardy, 25, of Colorado Springs, Colo. "It couldnât have gone better in books." Some of the young Marine leaders said Saturdayâs successful ambush could help boost the troopsâ morale and steel them for a possible final assault on the city, where military leaders say between 100 and 1,000 Iraqi insurgents and foreign fighters are trapped and preparing snares and defensive positions. "I think it was good that everyone got to get out and stretch their legs and get back in the offensive," said Cpl. Peter Madrigal, 21, of Tucson, Ariz., who led one of the squads involved in the fighting Saturday.
Stoddard, Fox Companyâs commander, said Saturdayâs battle proved what the Marines have been saying for weeks: that the insurgents are using mosques to fight the Americans. The insurgents were armed with assault rifles and machine guns with magazines taped together for quick reloading in combat, and were carrying grenades. "I have no sympathy for these guys," he said, as his men were returning from the operation. "Theyâre using holy places to conduct ambushes. Itâs just — I donât know — wrong." The Marines said the ambush would be a serious blow to the rebelsâ morale as they face the American force of nearly 5,000 Marines who now surround the city. "They thought theyâd be ambushing us, and look who got ambushed!" said Capt. Roy "Woody" Moore, reflecting the triumphant mood of the Marines who say theyâve been getting frustrated sitting behind defensive barriers just inside the city for weeks now. "When they see the bodies lined up in the street in front of the mosque — IDs out and weapons gone," Moore said, "theyâre going to say, âThings are really starting to go badly for us.â "
Posted by: Mike ||
04/26/2004 15:16 Comments ||
Top||
#4
"When they see the bodies lined up in the street in front of the mosque ---- IDs out and weapons gone," Moore said, "theyâre going to say, âThings are really starting to go badly for us.â "
And its all on video so whe Al-J/CNN/BBS/ABC/CBS/NBC complains about the 'unarmed civilian who were killed for visiting a mosque' we can call them on it. Sweet!
#5
"I think it was good that everyone got to get out and stretch their legs and get back in the offensive," said Cpl. Peter Madrigal, 21, of Tucson, Ariz.
Thats cool as hell. Its amazing how a 21 yr old Cpl. can get it and most of the politicians don't.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/26/2004 15:44 Comments ||
Top||
#6
I hope the video makes it to the internet soon too!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/26/2004 15:45 Comments ||
Top||
#9
Oh, man. THIS HAS GOT TO BE MY FAVORITE RANTBURG POST EVER!!!
"They slowly and quietly crept south house to house toward a mosque where gunmen gather almost daily to lead attacks against American troops." (libs: Gasp! In a mosque? )
"They thought theyâd be ambushing us, and look who got ambushed!" (Ooopsie-doopsie! Bye-bye little Islamotwerps.)
"One squad killed five men who were carrying machine guns, the Marines said, and another squad, assisted by a tank (BAAAH-ROOOM!) that rolled up to help, killed six other insurgents who tried to counter the attack." Islamotwerps vs. American tank guys! Just love it.
No Marines were reported killed or wounded. " Yes!
"Marines can go to sleep tonight knowing they killed (some) bad guys." And I can go to sleep tonight, knowing the Marines killed some bad guys--thanks!
#10
Oddly, ABC radio news went with a story which sounded like US troops getting ambushed. Some of the details were similar, but they reported it as a US failure.
It COULD have been a different action, but reporters could have turned the Marianas Turkey Shoot into a massive setback for the US.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 17:57 Comments ||
Top||
#11
#10
HAHA. I can see it now.
US Naval forces in Pacific expend large amounts of ammunition and fuel! Pacific Fleet nearly defenseless! Quagmire!!!
#12
"These were definitely guys that were coming up on our pos (position) to (do us harm)."
I see something disconcerting in the above statement. It's as if there is some doubt that a jihadi carrying an AK47 is there to do harm to the troops. More specifically, the troops are probably being told to watch who they shoot at. I wouldn't be too far off to say that at this point, anyone carrying an AK in Fallujah is a bad guy. Shoot him. Ask questions later.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/26/2004 18:27 Comments ||
Top||
#16
There Was A Mosque. Hey that sounds like a nifty title for the great War on Terror novel.
Hope some gyrene has got a copyright on it.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/26/2004 19:58 Comments ||
Top||
#17
That CNN storie did not mention anything about the ambush, only the RPG's flying around. Of course it didn't mention the number of times the reporter had to change his undies either. Sounds like he was scared sh*tless. Nevertheless, it did not come across as an American triumph, rather just more war is hell caca. These jerks want us to lose.
Posted by: remote man ||
04/26/2004 20:10 Comments ||
Top||
#18
This is certainly a refreshing change from "another four US soldiers were killed today when they rode into Fallujah in a thin-skinned Humvee and their vehicle took an RPG hit (or "ran over/next to an IED")".
#19
You know there is a certain beauty to carpet bombing. All this precision bombing lacks the sheer shock and awe of three cells of B-52s walking nine sticks of 750 pounders through your backyard. After about two weeks of daily visits, you don't have to worry about being accused of bombing a mosque because there won't even be pottery shards left, just powdered terrorist. But then that's just an old ARCLIGHT / BULLETSHOT guy's reminiscing.
#20
the sheer shock and awe of three cells of B-52s walking nine sticks of 750 pounders through your backyard.
Hmmmm, I seem to remember saying that a few times myself. I think it will only take once, and Fallujah should have the honors. Show them what 'shock and awe' REALLY is. Don't worry about accuracy - nothing within ten miles will be worth a sh$$ ever again anyway.
When I was at Tan Son Nhut, there was an old Soviet PT-76 amphibious tank in one of the hangars. The only thing unusual about this tank was that it happened to have been about two miles outside an ARCLIGHT box. They had to bring it in welded to a piece of sheet steel. Every single rivet was either structurally damaged or sheared. Welds were broken. There were four places on the turret ring where pieces of the retainer had broken loose. The barrel was bent in a gradual bow 15 degrees from true. The periscope window was broken.
It had been occupied at the time.
Yep, I'm sure an ARCLIGHT strike on Fallujah would have a very significant effect on morale in Iraq. I'm sure one specific Shiite cleric would need to change his entire wardrobe.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/26/2004 21:46 Comments ||
Top||
#21
OP. Perhaps it would be effective at the Iranian Nuclear Processing Plant too...
#22
I read an exerpt from a diary of a Viet Cong. He described being on the wrong side of an Arc Light. Russian Spy trawlers warned them the B-52s were coming and they got into a hardened bunker. No direct hits on the bunker. Nearby 10 feet of topsoil was overturned and the jungle was a bunch of toothpicks. Clearly it was the most terrifying thing the Viet Cong in question had ever seen.
Too bad we didn't make an example of Fallujah during the actual combat phase of the game.
#23
Too bad we didn't make an example of Fallujah during the actual combat phase of the game.
Posted by: ruprecht 2004-04-26 10:34:21 PM
Let kill all the Iraqi's so they can be free.
Hey I can add that to my Slogan list.
Bush/Cheney '04: Compassionate Colonialism
Bush/Cheney '04: Because the truth just isn't good enough.
Bush/Cheney '04: Four More Wars!
Bush/Cheney '04: In your heart, you know they're technically correct.
Bush/Cheney '04: Less CIA -- More CYA
Bush/Cheney '04: Putting the "con" in conservatism
Bush/Cheney '04: Thanks for not paying attention.
Bush/Cheney '04: The last vote you'll ever have to cast.
Bush/Cheney '04: Don't think. Vote Bush!
Bush/Cheney '04: Leadership without a thought
Bush/Cheney '04: Don't misunderestimate them!
Bush/Cheney '04: It's a no-brainer!
Bush/Cheney '04: Apocalypse Now!
Bush/Cheney '04: Deja-voodoo all over again!
Bush/Cheney '04: Leave no billionaire behind
Bush/Cheney '04: Lies and videotape but no sex!
Bush/Cheney '04: Or else.
Bush/Cheney '04: Over a billion Whoppers served.
Bush/Cheney '04: The economy's stupid!
Bush/Cheney '04: This time, elect us!
Bush/Cheney '04: We're Gooder!
Bush/Cheney '04: 1984 Now
Bush/Cheney '04: Let them eat yellowcake! Vote Bush!
Bush in '04: "I Has Incumbentory Advantitude"
Bush in '04: "Because every vote counts -- for me!"
Bush in '04: "Because I'm the President, that's why!"
Bush in '04: "Because dictatorship is easier.
Bush in '04: "Let kill all the Iraqi's so they can be free."
WWJB: Who would Jesus Bomb?
It ain't over 'til your brother counts the votes.
George W. Bush: It takes a village idiot
Posted by: Langs ||
04/26/2004 22:39 Comments ||
Top||
#24
Oh, gee, Langs! I'm all teary-eyed now! Let's put Saddam and his cronies back in charge so we can have rape gangs and prisons for children again like the good ol' days! Oh, and let's not forget to reinstate the Oil for Palaces program--and make sure Kofi gets double his cut this time around!
Posted by: Dar ||
04/26/2004 23:33 Comments ||
Top||
#25
hi langs i been missin you at blogfoeamerica have they added to the slogan list again
Israeli military officials said Monday they believe Mahmoud Zahar, a surgeon and prominent Hamas hard-liner, is the new leader of the Islamic militant group in the Gaza Strip. Or as he is now known in Israeli milltary circles: NEXT!
Hamas denied the Israeli claims regarding NEXT! Zahar, calling it a ploy to get information about the groupâs murky leadership structure. COOL!
All three major Israeli newspapers on Monday identified NEXT! Zahar, who had been Rantisiâs deputy, as the new leader. Israelâs military chief, Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon, told the Yediot Ahronot daily that the new leader had inherited the post "automatically" and reluctantly accepted. No Shit Sherlock
Yaalon also signaled Israel would avoid attacking him as long as the group remains quiet. "He doesnât want it, and he is apparently avoiding making decisions, and he is apparently avoiding terrorism," Yaalon said. "Anyone who doesnât use terrorism against us, we do not deal with." We got âm right where we want âm
Yaalon did not identify the Hamas leader, but military officials said he was referring to Zahar. The officials noted, however, that it is impossible to identify the leader with 100 percent certainty because of Hamasâ fluid Not a term that I would use
leadership structure. NEXT! Zahar, 53, the former personal physician of Yassin, is considered a hard-liner in Hamas. He rejects not only any settlement with Israel, but has also opposes compromise with Yasser Arafatâs Palestinian Authority. He has escaped two Israeli assassination attempts, third time lucky
mostly recently a September attack that killed his eldest son and a bodyguard. The next NEXT! Ismail Haniyeh, a prominent Hamas spokesman in Gaza, accused Israel of trying to trick Hamas into divulging sensitive information. "This is a clear blow Clear blow?
that the Israeli Zionist enemy is attempting to find information and to make us say yes or no," he said in an interview on a Hamas Web site. "Mentioning names by the Israeli enemy shows that they are preparing new aggression on Hamas." Sorry mate, even without mentioning names Israel is preparing "new" agression on Hamas, get used to it.
Posted by: chinditz ||
04/26/2004 11:35:30 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
so just take em all out - you are bound to hit the right one.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 14:26 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Zahar, 53, the former personal physician of Yassin
Since the #1 patient is gone, then there is no use for. . .
#4
Actually, who cares who the "leader" is. After all, Israel's declared that if there's any trouble, Zahar gets it. Right in the kisser. If he's the leader, he'll think twice about attacking. If he's not, he'll work on his "influencing up" skills!
Two US soldiers were killed and five others wounded here on Monday following a powerful blast during a raid on facilities thought to be producing âchemical munitionsâ, a senior US military spokesman said. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, the US-led coalitionâs deputy director for operations, said coalition troops searched the facilities after receiving information they could be involved in the production of chemical munitions. âThe location was a chemical store where the owner (and associates) were suspected of supplying chemical agents to terrorist criminals and insurgents,â he told a press conference. There was also information that âthe individuals were involved in the production of chemical munitions,â Kimmitt added, without providing details about the type of munitions sought.
âIt could be any number of chemical munitions ... but it (the information) apparently had enough credibility to it that we sent coalition forces in to do the inspection.â Kimmitt also said that eight civilians were injured in the blast, which occurred in the northern neighbourhood of Waziriyah. âA huge explosion occurred and four Humvees were set ablaze after US soldiers entered a chemical lab,â said witness Salah al-Abed. Shortly after the explosion in two chemical laboratories, US troops were seen removing two bodies in body bags.
Several witnesses said US soldiers entered one of the labs and tried to force the door open, causing a spark, which triggered the explosion. âThe US soldiers went into a first lab. When they came out, they were carrying chemical products. They made a small fire in the yard, then put it out,â said Amr al-Tay, a journalist for the London-based Arabic language newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat whose office is located nearby. âThey then went to a second lab nearby. When they forced the door with a tool, there was a spark and there was an explosion,â he added. âUS soldiers entered the second chemical lab. There was smoke when a huge explosion occurred and the four Humvees parked outside were set ablaze,â said Salah al-Hassan al-Abed, another Asharq Al-Awsat employee. Could someone explain what exactly they are talking about when they say âchemical munitionsâ.
#1
Gas. At least, that's what those two words mean to me.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 14:21 Comments ||
Top||
#2
I thought there were no chemical weapons plants.
I thought there were only pesticide manufacturers, pharmaceutical labs, and, "baby milk plants".
Nooo this would make GWB look good, and the oil-for-bribes folks at the UN look bad. We can't have that can we?
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
04/26/2004 14:33 Comments ||
Top||
#4
The BBC is reporting that jubilant Iraqis were dancing a burned out Humvee later, and that one of them was waving a tattered and bloody American uniform.
#6
Dancing AROUND a burned out Humvee....
Aarrgghh!
Incidentally, the Beeb did not report the incident itself, just the celebratory aftermath with the comment that the mob obviously saw it as evidence of a victory against the occupiers. Further description would certainly have undermined the credibility of this impression. Go figure.
#8
It was probably a meth lab. It is the only way these poor, oppressed Iraqis can make a living anymore.
(/BBC)
(see also: Steyn article elsewhere on Rantburg today)
#9
I am getting tired of these situations. The commander of the Tikrit area (Steve I believe) seemed to know what he was doing. It was his belief to NEVER ALLOW ANYBODY TO DANCE ON HIS EQUIPMENT. When a vehicle was destroyed it was guarded until it could be towed away. It appears many commanders just abandon their equipment and run back to base. It leaves me with the thoughts that we have some commanders that have no clue on how to handle a occupation. This same issue is hitting us up North where the Marines are finding out that the 82nd apparently let things get out of control in their area of operations.
Posted by: Patrick ||
04/26/2004 16:44 Comments ||
Top||
#10
FWIW, the Beeb has now reversed itself with a detailed report on the Baghdad incident from one of its non-asshats, Colin Reeves.
Reeves described the explosion incident in some detail from the scene, spoke with some Iraqis, then went on to refute two of the claims he had heard from the mob: that there were no Iraqi casualties (he saw bodies being pulled from the wreckage) and that there had been heavy American losses (he pointedly mentioned that there was no evidence for this).
He also suggested that the tattered uniform the ghoul was brandishing had been cut off a wounded American by American medics and left at the scene.
He even spoke to a couple of bystanders who condemned the insurgents as no better than Saddam.
Quite an amazing display, and evidence that the terror-apologist take-over of the Beeb is not quite complete.
Al Arabiya TV broadcast a tape Monday it said showed three Italian captives in Iraq and said their captors would kill them if Italians did not protest their countryâs military presence in Iraq. "A group calling itself the Green Brigade said it would release them if demonstrations are organized in Italy to protest against the governmentâs policy in Iraq," the Arabic TV channel reported, quoting a message it said it received from the kidnappers. "The group gave Italians five days to hold the protests or it will kill the hostages."
Footage on Italian television indicated the three were those shown on April 13, when kidnappers demanded the withdrawal of Italian troops from Iraq. Another Italian originally held with them was later killed. "We tell you we will show good faith and free them if you sympathies with our cause, show solidarity with us and publicly reject the policy of your prime minister by staging a big protest in your capital to protest against the war. We grant you five days after which we will kill them without any hesitation or any other warning," said the groupâs statement, showed by Arabiya. The tape showed three unshaven men eating a meal and wearing Arab robes.
Posted by: TS (vice girl) ||
04/26/2004 11:25:27 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[7 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"Be our slaves and we won't kill you."
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 14:18 Comments ||
Top||
#5
DPA - You are correct, but lets hope the Italian reaction is more like their heroic citizen who was murdered. Then his death in one way would have made a point.
#6
If the Italian people are brave the jihadis will hear nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. However, given reports that Berlusconi's gov't already decided to pay ransom (tribute), I fully expect to see/hear the demonstrators braying to please their jihadi masters.
Posted by: Mark ||
04/26/2004 14:57 Comments ||
Top||
#7
"The group gave Italians five days to hold the protests or it will kill the hostages."
Can you imagine the psyche of anyone who would actually participated in such a craven protest?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/27/2004 1:00 Comments ||
Top||
A videotape showing three Italian hostages in Iraq has been shown by news broadcaster Al Arabiya. In the video, the apparent kidnappers vow to kill the hostages in five days unless the Italian people protest against their military presence in Iraq. Quoting a message it said came from the kidnappers, the Arabic television channel said: "A group calling itself the Green Brigade said it would release them if demonstrations are organised in Italy to protest against the governmentâs policy in Iraq.
The tape showed three unshaven men eating a meal and wearing Arab robes. Footage on Italian television indicated the hostages were those shown on April 13, when kidnappers demanded the withdrawal of Italian troops from Iraq, according to Reuters news agency. The groupâs statement continued: "We tell you we will show good faith and free them if you sympathise with our cause, show solidarity with us and publicly reject the policy of your prime minister by staging a big protest in your capital to protest against the war. "We grant you five days after which we will kill them without any hesitation or any other warning." Theyâre pulling your strings, Italy - are you going to get up and dance?
EFL - If this report is right Sadr may be on the road to perdition - Iraqi style
IF HIS merchandising sales are any indication of his popularity, the United States army may have its work cut out removing Muqtada al-Sadr... No shop, business or street corner is without a poster of him in classic finger-wagging pose. And across the markets around town, a thriving trade is being done in Sadr memorabilia for all occasions. "The watches with his face are $10 (£5.64) each, and the keyrings and the medallions 1,000 dinars (£1,891) - weâve sold lots of them since [Sadr] started his uprising," said stall-holder Hamid Jassem, holding up what looked at first glance like a Sadr beer mat. "These circular photos do well, too - you can put them on your desk, your mantelpiece or your television." The only drawback to having oneâs face displayed everywhere is that in Iraq it is generally no guarantee of affection. Saddam Hussein appeared on posters, watches and even the money, yet in Najaf, like just about everywhere else, he was universally despised. ..[an intimidated local says]
"If you complain about him, you will get his men coming round to your house to question you. That is why everybody puts his picture in their shops." Another flashback to the old days comes in the form of the al-Mehdi army "minders" who now chaperone all journalists. [where does Sadr get the $ to fund all these lackeys - Iran, local shakedowns?]
They are not officially compulsory, but going without one carries the risk of being held at gunpoint by Sadrâs militia and questioned as a spy. this might imply that Sadr (aka Badr) will self destruct soon or might imply that he will torture the Najafites for quite a while - depending on how the $ flow in and how the locals react-- suppose for example Sadr had one of his lackeys bump off a local non cooperative Iman or two.
#1
I should have also pointed out the oddity of an exchange rate that varies from about a half pound sterling per dinar to two pounds sterling per dinar depending on the type of merchandise. Oh well.
#3
Automatic year in jail if you have a picture or sadr item. Two sadr items gets you hung in the street.
I really think we made a mistake when we didnt moab the place when the contractors were shown on the bridge. It's important to remember that order comes first, then democracy.
#4
Before democracy, or even order, comes geography. Above article is about Najaf, in south central Iraq (Shia shrine city) The Contractors on the bridge was in Fallujah, in Western Iraq, in the Sunni Triangle.
Cheesh. What use is war if people dont even learn geography from it???
Do you suppose that Muqtada al Sadr (or Qusay Sadr to his friends) has a multilevel sales organization like Amway going on down there in Najaf? They could have those flip charts with boxes joining other boxes and testimonials, etc.
#10
Maybe we should put out some merchandise of our own, like Muqtada al Sadr's "Prophet's Best" Blended Bourbon, or Muqtada al Sadr Netted Slingshot Briefs or a music video, "Janet Jackson Grinds out Muqtada al Sadr's Favorite Make-Out Tunes" (or maybe just those Mohammed and Ali Spice Racks, as used by Muqtada al Sadr).
By Ralph Peters
The garbage truck was inspiring. Making the early morning rounds, its energetic crew collected the trash from a tidy residential street in a hopeful city booming with construction sites. That wouldnât be a big deal in America. But this was in Iraq. While the media concentrate on the combat and confusion to the south, I recently visited the north of the country, where Iraqâs 5 million Kurds have brought off a near miracle: Theyâve built a financially efficient, rule-of-law democracy in the Middle East. Elsewhere, the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) spends billions to keep a failed state on life support. While the rest of Iraqâs population wallows in the regionâs addiction to blame, the Kurds have rolled up their sleeves and gone to work. There is a lesson here for Iraq â and U.S. policymakers, who insist on keeping Kurdistan a part of that blood-soaked country.
Yeah. The lesson is that Kurds aren't Arabs...
This month, in the Arab sections of central and southern Iraq, insurgents, religious extremists and international terrorists indulged in an orgy of kidnapping and killing of U.S. troops. Yet, in the north lies Suleimaniye. Here, in the capital of one of the two Kurdish regional governments, officials are writing zoning laws, demanding environmental impact statements from builders and making education funding a priority. In the streets, women walk freely and safely, dressed any way they wish. Only a minority choose Islamic garb â head scarves, not veils. The regional prime minister, Barham Salih, wants to increase the number of female government officials, describing them as "harder working" than men and "utterly incorruptible." And there are no forced marriages. Just over 45% of the university students are women. Males and females study side by side. Internet use is free to all students. There is no censorship or political influence on campus. Not one of the oil-rich Gulf states rivals this still-poor countryâs educational freedom â or standards. Thereâs a department of religious studies, but itâs only one of 16 departments (and far from the most popular).
Still, the Kurdish government isnât content. It hopes to build a world-class "American" university to develop its human capital. As the rest of Iraq threatens to implode, the Kurds are racing against time to develop their infrastructure and provide opportunities for their population. International business is welcome, contractors arenât murdered, and even the Turks, longtime opponents of the Kurds, are investing. If only the Kurds had a disaster or two, then someone might tell their story.
Of course, the Kurds do face significant problems. After decades of underinvestment, a growing economy has overtaxed the power system. Refined petroleum products have to be imported â in an oil-rich country. And hundreds of thousands of internal refugees, displaced by Saddam Hussein, face uncertain futures. The biggest problem, though, is Washingtonâs insistence that Kurdistan remain part of Iraq. The Kurds are doing their best to support our policies, despite skepticism about the countryâs future. Theyâre determined that, if Iraq disintegrates, they wonât be to blame. They want to make us happy, almost desperately. If anyone believes that no good came of deposing the old regime, he or she should talk to the Kurds. For them, generations of oppression, ethnic cleansing, torture and massacre ended when Saddamâs statue fell. But with hostile powers on their borders, their future security depends on Americaâs goodwill. As terrorists campaign to drive the U.S. from the Middle East, the Kurds are begging for U.S. military bases on their territory.
When American politicians of either party describe the Middle East theyâd like to see, theyâre describing the Kurdistan that already exists â in fact, if not in law. Yet, coalition authorities in Baghdad devote their efforts to holding a Frankensteinâs monster of a country together â just as we and our allies earlier tried to force Yugoslavia to remain whole â while ignoring what the Kurds have already achieved. Instead of supporting our only friends in Iraq, we try to please implacable enemies by pouring billions of taxpayer dollars into cities whose people assassinate U.S. soldiers. An ironclad military rule is "Donât reinforce failure. Reinforce success." In the attempted reconstruction of Iraq, our policy is just the opposite. Diplomats always have plenty of "good" reasons for doing the wrong things. Borders canât change; stability must be achieved; regional sensibilities must be taken into account â the list of reasons why we cannot live up to our own professed ideals and support Kurdish self-determination is nearly endless. But a moment of truth is approaching: Either we support democracy, or we donât.
Why not hold a referendum? Why not let the Kurds decide their own future? The United States needs to be clear: America isnât failing the rest of Iraq. The Iraqis are failing themselves. The war to depose Saddam handed them an opportunity no other power would have or could have given them. If, despite the U.S. investment of blood and treasure, Iraqâs Arabs decide to squander their chance for a peaceful and prosperous future, there may be painfully little the United States can do about it. But where freedom, the rule of law and democracy already exist, the United States should offer its support. There are three things the United States can and should do for the Kurds: guarantee their long-term security against neighboring countries; ensure that they receive their fair share of reconstruction aid and Iraqâs oil revenue; and, if the rest of Iraq pursues bloodshed and destruction, support an independent Kurdish state. Kurdistan isnât Iraq. Go there and see.
Posted by: tipper ||
04/26/2004 11:50:11 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Time to divide them up into separate states. The idea of a free and democratic Iraq is a failure. Time to cut our losses and be realistic about the possible postive outcomes.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 12:01 Comments ||
Top||
#2
murat...murat...no comments...should of guesed no american dead so no need for you to comment........ iraq is an artificial country and we should play to that...if the shites want to play hardball reinforce to them that they can lose just like they did 80 years ago and 30 years ago... this so called insurgency is very small with many outside elements...if we gave the govt to the sunnis the shites would be out in the cold again...
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 12:07 Comments ||
Top||
#3
The worse part is the treason of the media. While they are busy rebuilding and establishing rule of law our media is focused entirely upon body-bag counts.
Contrast this with the Palistinians.
I wish them the best and feel we should give them their own state -- they damn well deserve it.
#4
Let's not forget that Murat would sooner castrate himself than say something nice about the Kurds.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 12:21 Comments ||
Top||
#5
RC,
Sounds like another good argument for partition.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
04/26/2004 12:34 Comments ||
Top||
#6
B> "The idea of a free and democratic Iraq is a failure. "
The chances for success are slim (as I've said before and have been insulted by you because of it) but they are all we got.
Iraq is an artificial country, but it's what you chose to work with. You should have never gone in there, but now that you did go you must stay the course -- there's no other choice any more. Divide it up and the *only* free bit will be Kurdistan (which was already free) -- the other two bits will fall to Iran and Syria.
If Iran and Syria were defeated first, *then* a divided Iraq might have a chance not to become their puppet.
#7
One of the cool things about partition is that Kurdistan and Shiastan would have lots of Oil. Baghdadstan would have industry and Sunnitrianglestan would have sheep and sheep shit.
#8
Ah..Aris...what a shame. Although you and I might have had experienced a brief moment of agreement..that moment has sadly passed us by.
I used to agree with what you write, but now, sadly...short of some bizarre show of Muslim unity in support of freedom and democracy ..I believe that we need to divide Iraq up into at least three separate countries.
To bad..I look forward to the day when you and I can sing Kumbaya together.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 13:43 Comments ||
Top||
#9
Aris - you are always negative. What country are you from? Do you think freedom and prosperity are a given right? You need to be constanly fighting for it.
The idea of a free and democratic Iraq is a failure.
Depends on what you are comparing to. A western country or an arab country. A comparison to an arab country would show Iraq is already there.
You should have never gone in there - you really do not understand why we went. It was not for WMD or Saddam. Iraq is the most strategically important country in the region. We needed to prove to our enemies that we were serious and put our forces in a position to take out the heads of the snake - iran and syria. The US has been a victim of a war of proxy conducted by these states for over 20 years and we did not confront it vigoursly until 9-11. During the cold war it was almost impossible and after the cold war we were consumed with, naively, that the world was changed and we could reap the benifits of winning the cold war. Osama proved us wrong and it took a massive attack on our homeland to shake the cobwebs in our collective phyce. Now we will take the fight to the enemy.
If Iran and Syria were defeated first
Iraq is easier - take out saddam and we seperate our enemies. These two states are less agressive publically now - though not behind the scenes. They know if Bush succeeds they are doomed- at least the rulling asshats. That is why countries in the region are seeing a huge increase in terrorist activity. Bottom line after the nov elections syria and iran will pay for thier actions and they will not control iraq. US forces will be in tehran.
Divide it up and the *only* free bit will be Kurdistan (which was already free) - only due to American support. Not eruo that is for sure - the eurors would've rather worked with ole saddam and reaped the benifits of the Oil-For-Food fiasco at the expense of the iraqi people. And no matter what we say here or the media says the people of iraq know better.
Your whole arguments on this thread and in past threads are based on a world the US left behind after 9-11. We will not allow these countries to pursue the policy of the last 20 years, we will take the fight to the enemy regardless of world opinon. Our security will not be dictated by the amoral ecomomic calculations of world powers.
Still curious where you are from. Because if it is euro what you have today is soley due to the sacrafices of my grandfathers generation. Like it or not it is the truth.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 13:44 Comments ||
Top||
#10
Dan> "you are always negative"
No, I'm the one who's saying you still have a slim chance at success. And I'm the one who thinks that the sky won't necessarily fall if Kerry gets elected.
"What country are you from?"
Oy vey, here comes Jen redux. As I said to her just two days ago: I'm Greek and I am posting from Greece.
"Iraq is the most strategically important country in the region."
Which is why you shouldn't have gone in there, when the regional array of enemy countries and forces meant that you most likely couldn't keep it once you had it. You should have kept it almost-neutral territory for the moment.
Now you've just been used to crush Saddam and the Iran-Syria axis is picking up the pieces.
"We needed to prove to our enemies that we were serious and put our forces in a position to take out the heads of the snake - iran and syria"
What you mean is that you went into a place where they've got you surrounded, and you nonetheless think that *you* got *them* surrounded.
Your forces are in a place where they can't act to take out anything else because all their attention is occupied at Iraq. You played the game as if your opponents would be standing *still* and got caught with your pants down when they started moving.
"take out saddam and we seperate our enemies. "
NO!! Take out Saddam and you are *uniting* your enemies. Now there exists a huge unbroken Syria-Sadr-Iran axis. Before, with Saddam inbetween, a Saddam that was supporting the anti-Iranian insurrectionists, you could have taken out Syria and there'd be no regional neighbour to infiltrate you in mass.
Saddam was your enemy --- but he was also Iran's enemy. He wasn't part of any Axis of Terror -- he was alone and isolated. Sadr isn't. And even if Saddam chose to broke his isolation in order to help Syria or Iran, you'd only have one border to watch for, not two.
"only due to American support. Not eruo that is for sure. - the eurors "
You know, for starters the UK is part of the EU, even if none of us want it to be. Secondly when you can't spell any of the usual diminutives (insulting or normal) of "european" why not spell the whole word? Is there some kind of rule in Rantburg that you ain't allowed to use the word "european", you must use an alternative instead?
"Your whole arguments on this thread and in past threads are based on a world the US left behind after 9-11. "
Which is evidence enough that you've not read anything I've said in past threads.
"Because if it is euro what you have today is soley due to the sacrafices of my grandfathers generation. "
First of all it's spelled 'europe', and secondly how much I owe to the sacrifices of your grandfather's generation is quite irrelevant to the issue of whether invading Iraq was wise or stupid.
#11
I'm amazed at how many posters have gone wobbly on the idea of a democratic Iraq because a handful of psychos in Falluja & Najif. Partitioning is a viable backup plan but its hardly the time to give up on Iraq yet.
#12
well..ok..I'll wait to see how things pan out....but yes, I'm going wobbly on the idea that Iraqi's have what it takes to separate church and state in order to make a free Iraq.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 16:11 Comments ||
Top||
#13
well to me it is spelled euro - short for weasel....and i will use any version i like. isn't funny how it is ok to abuse the US but when you abuse a euro country well that is just insulting! please
Iraq is the most strategically important country in the region." Which is why you shouldn't have gone in there, when the regional array of enemy countries and forces meant that you most likely couldn't keep it once you had it. You should have kept it almost-neutral territory for the moment.
iraq was never neutral and just because the fight is tuff is no reason for us shriek and run from it. Bring it on as Bush said..and I know that irriatated the euro-weasels.. we are going to take ALL TERRORIST NATIONS OUT. PERIOD REGARDLESS OF THE DIFFICULTIES.
And please we are not surrounded - we have a forces placed in a very strong position versus iran/syria. And there is not much they can do except to try and disrupt, which they are trying but not succeeding.
Syria-Sadr-Iran axis. - Exactly more reason to take them out. And Sadr is a small time punk fully supported by iran. But when things got tough for sadr - where is iran? they are scared and rightly so.
take out saddam and we seperate our enemies. " NO!! Take out Saddam and you are *uniting* your enemies. Now there exists a huge unbroken Syria-Sadr-Iran axis. Before, with Saddam inbetween, a Saddam that was supporting the anti-Iranian insurrectionists
doesn't matter what/who saddam was supporting. We had three choices 1. Give up and stop the no-fly zones. saddam then would be seen as winning. 2. Get cozy with saddam - which the euro's would've of been all over (they want thier cake and ice-cream) 3. Take him out and setup for the next part of the WOT. Bush chose the the third and most difficult route. But the route that pay huge long term dividends.
only due to American support. Not eruo that is for sure. - the eurors " You know, for starters the UK is part of the EU - yes aris you are correct - but once again with half truths. Without the active military/political support of the US nothing would happen. Just look at the former yugoslavia - the euros could not take care of thier own backyard. they needed the US to do the fighting. And why? First logistically they cannot move enough forces. Second when they do move forces they do not have the right mix. Third the euros picked different sides. French/Greeks the serbs - Germans the croats. Seems like a little repeat of history.
and secondly how much I owe to the sacrifices of your grandfather's generation is quite irrelevant to the issue of whether invading Iraq was wise or stupid.
History has everything to do with iraq.
Truman should of let Greece fall to the commies - your world would be a much different place.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 16:14 Comments ||
Top||
#14
"funny how it is ok to abuse the US "
Who said that it was okay to abuse the US?
"iraq was never neutral "
On regards to the war against global Islamofascism, yeah it was. With more sympathies on *their* side ofcourse, but it wasn't part of any axis.
"we are going to take ALL TERRORIST NATIONS OUT. PERIOD REGARDLESS OF THE DIFFICULTIES."
And since success is certain, as you claim, there's no actual need to debate the course of action, right? Wake me up when it's over, if all that remains is a mere mop-up operation, right?
"And please we are not surrounded - we have a forces placed in a very strong position versus iran/syria."
When you have enemies on all sides and you are in the center, that's being called "surrounded" by definition.
"We had three choices 1. Give up and stop the no-fly zones. saddam then would be seen as winning. 2. Get cozy with saddam - which the euro's would've of been all over (they want thier cake and ice-cream) 3. Take him out and setup for the next part of the WOT. "
You are really Saddam-fixated, aren't you? GET IT IN YOUR HEAD, Saddam was NOT a part of the global Islamofascist axis! You had a FOURTH choice which was "Ignore Saddam for the moment, and keep your attention on the ACTUAL Axis of Terror. Which was Syria-Iran."
Saddam didn't have anything to do with it. You could have kept the status quo remain status quo until you had taken out Syria, geographically isolated (and much smaller) as it was, and once that part of the WOT of terror was finished, and *if* it became necessary, you could perhaps have proceeded to Iraq.
More to the point the benefits of taking out Syria would have been *immediate*, as Syria is the headquarters of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah -- the benefits would NOT have been dependant on some democratization domino process that would take decades and decades before it bore any fruit at all.
"Just look at the former yugoslavia - the euros could not take care of thier own backyard."
You keep on with the irrelevant cliches, don't you? What does any of this have to do with whether invading Iraq was a wise course of action?
Oh yeah, it doesn't.
"Truman should of let Greece fall to the commies - your world would be a much different place."
Translation: I have to be so grateful that I should shut down my brain when your country's policies are moronic.
Second translation: You've lost the argument and that's why you must play the "gratitude" card. Because if I'm grateful to your country, that must ofcourse mean that you can never make a mistake, and I must never call your attention to it.
You know what? If I was like you, Dan, I would indeed not give a damn about American lives and I would indeed not give a damn about the fact the War on Terror is being lost in Iraq.
But I do. I care very much. And that's the only reason I'm here.
And it's "should have" you idiot, not "should of". How old are you?
#15
ok aris - i am not trying to agrue. but i do firmly believe that history has a relevence on current events and are not some irrelevant cliches. it all matters and i pointed out yugoslavia because it was a dismill failure from a european perspective.
You could have kept the status quo remain status quo until you had taken out Syria, geographically isolated (and much smaller) as it was, and once that part of the WOT of terror was finished, and *if* it became necessary, you could perhaps have proceeded to Iraq. Just what countries do you suggest we should of used to get to syria? israel? now that would've gone over good with the countries of the middle east. Turkey? Like you said syria is land locked?
You had a FOURTH choice which was "Ignore Saddam for the moment, and keep your attention on the ACTUAL Axis of Terror. Which was Syria-Iran."
This is the path to victory.
In your view we should of just done a frontal assult on iran? There is still a chance for iran to be settled without war. Unlike saddams iraq there is other voices in iran. But we now have a very good staging ground for any confrontation with iran/syria.
If I was like you, Dan, I would indeed not give a damn about American lives and I would indeed not give a damn about the fact the War on Terror is being lost in Iraq. But I do. I care very much. And that's the only reason I'm here. And it's "should have" you idiot, not "should of". How old are you?
Well maybe you do sincerly care - but the majority of the EU (ok i said it) does not hold your opinions. And I am very grateful you do care but you ignore the larger world which does not care.
GET IT IN YOUR HEAD, Saddam was NOT a part of the global Islamofascist axis! Terrorism is not just Islamofascist..it is on many levels. But still there is lingering doubts about this statment. After the fall of the talibs there is hard intel that members of alqueda leardership went to iraq. and there is also intel that the iraqi armed forces went on a high state of alert on 9-10.
So tell me how would the citizens of the EU reacted if we partnered with Saddam?
Translation: I have to be so grateful that I should shut down my brain when your country's policies are moronic. Second translation: You've lost the argument and that's why you must play the "gratitude" card.
Well no aris - but you have to understand the depth of ingratitude Americans feel. We sacraficed our young men and women, treasury, put our cities at great harm from nuclear attack just so the countries of the EU could live free. Now we feel the EU is spitting on us.
And yes we do make mistakes. Do no misunderstand resolutness with arrogance.
And this is not a grammar class - i am very busy during the day but i feel compelled to voice my opinions - and well sometimes i spell wrong or use improper grammar. so what - my point gets across just as yours.
By the way I am 35 and work fulltime supporting my family.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 17:26 Comments ||
Top||
#16
oh by the way nice ending to your post - idiot...
is this a grammar class or a page for ranting?
just tell me what is Greece doing in this global conflict? besides asking the US for assistance in protecting Olympics?
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 17:37 Comments ||
Top||
#17
"Just what countries do you suggest we should of used to get to syria? israel? now that would've gone over good with the countries of the middle east. "
As opposed to now, when all the countries in the middle-east love you you mean?
Not to mention that this reminds me of the old joke: A woman comes across a man crawling under a street lamp. "I've lost my car keys," he explains. The woman tries to help the man find his keys. After a few minutes of searching, she asks "Where exactly did you drop them?"
"Down the street, next to my car."
Puzzled, she asks "Then why aren't you looking over there?"
"The light is better here."
"Now we feel the EU is spitting on us."
Since the EU doesn't have a common foreign policy, it can't do anything to you as yet, not even spit.
"just tell me what is Greece doing in this global conflict?"
If you ever ask me a relevant question, I will answer it.
Why not ask me "what are blonde people doing in this global conflict"? Why not ask me "what are agnostic people doing in this global conflict"? Why not ask me "what are fans of Panathinaikos" doing in this global conflict? Or "what are A-Blood types doings in this global conflict"? Or "what are white people doing in this global conflict"?
Oh, that's right -- it's because you are not a hair fanatic, a religious fanatic, a sports hooligan, a blood-type fanatic or a racist, you are simply a nationalist.
Which means that I supposedly have to give account for my nation's doings. As if I'm to blame for my country's actions or inactions.
No, I don't. You idiot. Why not ask me what Malaysia or Rwanda or Urugay has been doing in this global conflict? It'd be just as relevant to the issue at hand.
#18
your right greece is right up there in abilities with rwanda and uruguay..which you spelled wrong! why should we expect anything less.
Since the EU doesn't have a common foreign policy, it can't do anything to you as yet, not even spit...this points to the real reasons why the euros are so pissed....
you idiot..huh well put..you butt slamming greek!
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 18:03 Comments ||
Top||
#19
Thanks that you proved my point.
What hair color are you btw? I'd like to insult people belonging in your hair tribe.
#22
Aris sometimes can have some very smart, good points to make--but then he goes and ruins it all by being angry and mean at people, which alienates them. (Probably because people in his life belittled him a long time ago, and were angry and mean at him. )
Now, I think being really angry and mean kind of gives Aris an energy surge, because he does it so often without any provocation. I think somewhere deep down he's actually a very sensitive guy, but has learned to cover it up with this tempermental "fighting" type of angry meaness in an attempt to protect himself from feeling a magnified sense of threat. Everything gets so emotional for him.
I still have some hope for Aris, and often would like to DISCUSS his politics. But that's why I don't talk to him anymore--he'll probably just be angry and mean at me, and I got enough trouble.
But (this one last time), since I was interested in the topic of discussion before it devolved into angry, meaness attacks . . .
Peace, Aris. You're totally misunderstanding Dan, and yeah, after you bite and chew somebody up, they're going to snap back at you. But if you don't, they probably won't either. At least not here. Another thing--you might not understand that American "cut downs" are, for the most part, firmly ensconced in attitudes that are pretty good-natured. Not like the Greek poison that's intended to really destroy the other person. (No, I'm not talking about you, here, Aris--although you can be poisonous too, sometimes. So just stop it, okay? I don't want to see you become like the people that did you wrong. )
Aris posts an article that has a kernel of truth with an anti-American slant. S/he leaves it out there with a whiff of anticipation and superiority...see! I have the nerve to post this here!!
Someone points out where the kernel of truth and reality part ways.
No matter how absurd her argument, Aris posts her first post...showing great effort and pain to respond to the criticism with feigned politeness.
The person comes back, annoyed but not fooled by the feigned politeness and points out the flaws in Aris's argument.
Aris begins to wind up...ignoring the actual points made by the poster, s/he bares her teeth, and says something along the lines of ..."that is not what I said..you are stupid if you think that is what I said.
Then the person comes back with points that Aris did not address and s/he is really wound up now...strapping on the suicide belt, hir head begins to spin...."you are a stupid liar if you say that I said that, I've tried to be polite, but now, because you are such a heathen, I must call you a f*(*&ing liar".
If the subject is foolish enough to attempt to continue the conversation...Aris spins hirself into orbit..."you stupid liar..I never said that!! Prove that I said that!! You hear a wooshing sound as s/he implodes.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 19:16 Comments ||
Top||
#24
"Which means that I supposedly have to give account for my nation's doings. As if I'm to blame for my country's actions or inactions."
Katsaris is too much to make this confession when he berates every one of us and demands that we account for America's "doings....as if we are to blame for our country's actions or inactions."
Regardless if we are to blame (which in a democratic society we are, by voting and paying taxes), we all gladly take responsibility here at RB.
Katsaris, the US wasn't going to invade and effect regime change in Syria--not yet.
We had no causus belli there, we hadn't fought Gulf War I there, there weren't 16 UN Resolutions against Assad.
Everything AK says about Saddam and his Iraq was FALSE.
Saddam had the "best" army, had defied those UN Resolutions, had committed genocide and ethnic cleansing twice against his own people, had shot missiles at Israel and was supported in his fights by the rest of the Arab League, even though he waged an 8-year Sunni war against the Shiite Iranians.
He had numerous ties to Islamist terrorism, many of which have since been uncovered.
Iraqis were behind the first WTC bombing in '93 and there's much evidence that he was behind (financially, technologically, logistically) behind the 9/11 attacks, if not directly.
Syria and Lebanon are going to be dealt with and they lie down the road.
But our waging of Operation Iraqi Freedom and the liberation and democratization of Iraq--right next door to Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia--was the next logical step in the GWOIT, right after deposing the Taliban in Afghanistan.
America and her allies will be victorious in Iraq and will successfully establish democracy in the Middle East.
Then, we'll deal with the others, including Syria.
And AK needs to make a decision: either don't account for being Greek and Greece's action as a country or quit raking us here over the coals because you don't "like" what America's doing and demand we explain national policy and change it.
"What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander."
So, you must choose, AK but you can't continue to do both.
And right now, your country has a big problem with Cyprus and the Turks...not to mention the shambles of the US Olympics.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/26/2004 19:28 Comments ||
Top||
#25
Leave Aris along he is the RB Alpha Troll. I don't won't us to look back when the clorox bomb goes off in Athens and think..... geee if we'd just been a liitle nicer to Aris. So be nice now! Life is short!
#26
B> I'm a guy. And I didn't bother to read the rest of your post.
ex-lib> How do you think a jewish person would react to someone who uses "we should of left you to die in the concentration camps" as an argument in a debate? Or a black person might react to a comment like "we should of kept you in slavery"?
They'd probably be pissed off. Possibly they would even mock the other guy for using "should of" instead of "should have". Why do you therefore think I should react differently to "Truman should of left Greece to fall to the commies"?
When people ask me my nationality and then use it as an insult, I'll treat them the same way as if they had asked me if I had Jewish blood and then used *that* as an insult. What about people that'd ask about someone's race and learning he's Asian they commented "Wow, most Asians are commies, right?" or learned they were black and asked "How is Africa doing in the global confrontation?"
Do you have Jewish blood, ex-lib? Whenever I disagree with you, may I use "you Jew" (the same way people here have used "you Greek") as a means of emphasis or perhaps say that the Christians should have left your people to die in the concentration camps or anything like that?
But I wouldn't do that, you see. The same way that I wouldn't use someone's race as an insult. Or someone's nationality.
---
"think somewhere deep down he's actually a very sensitive guy but has learned to cover it up with this tempermental "fighting" type of angry meaness in an attempt to protect himself from feeling a magnified sense of threat"
Are you using "sensitive" as in "sensitive to people's needs" or "sensitive" as in "vulnerable to world's hurts"? The two meanings of the words always confuse me.
I think I'm sensitive as to the former meaning, not to the latter. But I don't see what either of these meanings of "sensitive" has to do with whether one is mild or aggressive in a debate -- whether one is willing to back down from a fight or whether he isn't.
Another thing--you might not understand that American "cut downs" are, for the most part, firmly ensconced in attitudes that are pretty good-natured. Not like the Greek poison that's intended to really destroy the other person. (No, I'm not talking about you, here, Aris--although you can be poisonous too, sometimes. So just stop it, okay? I don't want to see you become like the people that did you wrong. ) It's all up to you.
Hmm. I'll think about what you said, but I'm not certain how "butt-slamming Greek" can be viewed as good-natured. And comments such as .com and B have made in the past were most definitely not good natured.
*shrug* I've left forums before when I found out they frustrated me more than they served me. If I reach that point with Rantburg I'll just leave here too, which is probably easier than actually hearing people use "you Greek" as an insult and not vocally compare them to the people that'd use "you Jew" or "you n*gger".
I think you're a good guy even when I don't agree with you. I also think you're a hell of a lot more realistic than the people I dealt with when I lived in Italy for four years. In fact, Aris, I bet you're not winning any popularity contests over there...if you actually articulate these positions in public, you have my respect (and if you don't, you have my understanding).
Yep, Syria and Iran are an issue. Pakistan too. Don't see any way around that. It may well have been cleverer to deal with them instead of Saddam.
Are the people on this board really unable to take this kind of criticism? Aris has a much tougher skin than most of us then.
#29
I don't won't us to look back when the clorox bomb goes off in Athens and think..... geee if we'd just been a liitle nicer to Aris
:-) well...good point. I've always wondered if that's what happened to our original Murat. Even though he posts occassionally, it's never been quite the same. I certainly don't want Aris on my conscience!! HE's a somewhat likeable troll and a darn shame it would be.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 20:05 Comments ||
Top||
#30
AK, my personal opinions are the same as that of my government and my President...as are most of the other posters here.
This is a political forum.
We talk politics and foreign policy.
To shift the argument--a tactic which you employ chronically--and say that you are merely attacking posters who express their political and ideological opinons for their personal beliefs is disingenuous and a lie.
And if you're not here to account for Greece's actions in the world, why ARE you here?
If you can't see why there wasn't a causus belli to wage war on Syria, you haven't been paying attention AT ALL to the conversation we've all been having since 9/11.
Syria's in trouble. Make no mistake.
Both Bush and Colin Powell have issued numerous warnings to Syria of late (particularly due to firefights on the Syrian border in Iraq) and we're about to impose more sanctions on Syria for their support of terrorism.
Syria means Lebanon and that means Israel is involved, too and has their own battle plans for the Bekka Valley.
Syria's number will come up soon--probably after the November election, if not before.
You have to remember that before 9/11, the position of the United States was to leave other nations in peace, regardless of their support for Islamist terrorism.
With regard to countries like Syria, whom we have reason to suspect are up to no good but against whom we have no definite beef (as yet), we're not going to be aggressive and "start something."
If you can't figure out US foreign and war policy this far, you just don't understand who we fundamentally are as a country and as the world's lone hyperpower.
And the situation as I described it for Syria applies to Iran, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, too.
We have to take this War against IslamoFascism one step at a time and right now, the Front is in Iraq, where Syria is doing us a favor by sending their bad guys (Hezbollah, Hamas, AQ, Islamic Jihad, etc., etc. ) to Falluja and Najaf where we can kill them without invading Syria.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/26/2004 20:09 Comments ||
Top||
#31
and Aris...oh..I think you did read it.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 20:11 Comments ||
Top||
#32
blonde and type A if have an idiotic response for this...still think your a dumbass...we were having a meaniful discussion...but since i cannot see it your way you get, as put by others, ANGRY....
still did not answer my question, which i believe is a justified question, what has greece done for the WOT, besides ask for help in protecting the olympics?
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 20:22 Comments ||
Top||
#33
aris my apologies if i offended you with the "Butt Slamming" statement..but you need to understand this site is for discussion...and we were having a discussion until it got ANGRY and i was, to say the least, pissed! i do understand that people have a difference of opinion..but does that make them an idiot? an idiot would be post by Anti-War. i have rarely agreed with you but at least your post's were of merit and thought..but not this one. have your opinions but keep it civil...
still would like to know your thoughts on what Greece is doing in this conflict. she is on the front line and will be in range islamofascists(as you put it) missles well before America.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 20:38 Comments ||
Top||
#34
A note to Aris Katsaris
Dear Aris:
The thing that sets you apart as a person, here, is that everyone sees that you have a great need to discharge negative emotion. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I suspect it is a legitimate need. But discharging it the way you do clouds your ability to see others clearly, and even to know youself, because you haven't dealt with what's actually bugging you. You must find out why you feel these things. It's not about what's going on here. Not really. What you're talking about is not what you're talking about, if you get my meaning. Your anger isn't about this or that politcal situation. It's not even about Dan calling you what he did (he was pretty mad at that point because you'd been railing at him in angry meaness for quite a while--and I could try and explain why it wasn't an the kind of insult you thought it was--why it was more good-natured than you can fathom now--but another time, perhaps.) And Jen is not out to "get you" or misrepresent you. Not at all. Your perceptions, which I know feel very real to you, are part of the construct you're stuck in.
Like it or not, you are vulnerable (like anyone else) to the world's hurts. You are hurt. You have been hurt. I can see it. You get angry. You are always angry--most of the time. Am I right? This stops you from being as sensitive as you would truly like to be, to be able to care about other people's feelings and needs in a direct way--in the way you might like. Instead, you are on a hair-trigger and find it difficult to relax.
You said you weren't going to read B's post. But I think you should. Here's why. It actually might help you, in a weird, round about way. B outlines the pattern you use in interactions. I have seen it over and over again from you. I'm sorry to tell you that, because it might cause you to feel even more threatened than you already feel. But the reason B's post might help you is because, if you can stand the heat of it, it could point the way to self-discovery. You are torked out of your mind at somebody(s) somewhere, and don't know what to do about it. You have developed a substitute pattern for trying to deal with it. Your need to defend youself at the level you do, points to something, or many things, that caused you to adopt a super defensive posture in the first place. You weren't always like this. Think back.
I really hope you find out about the bad stuff that hurt you originally, and work it through, because it's messing you up. Politics won't help you feel better. Participating in chat rooms won't help you feel better. Once you tell somebody off, you will get nothing more than a temporary sense of relief. Then it will start again. Nothing will help, except coming to terms with what is really eating at you.
We have spoken before, and I think if you try, you may remember the suggestion I made. I sincerely hope you follow it, because it might help.
Before I go I want to tell you that I thought you were a lot less angry and mean in your post to me this time, and I commend you on that. This is all I'm going to be able to write to you, for now, Aris.
#35
I like Aris, too. He's a smart guy and according to Google is already an accomplished translator.
I am somewhat familiar with the Southern European culture. I know that you don't have an argument without a lot of cussing and personal insults. The problem, Aris, is that that kind of crap doesn't cut it in American culture. It generally leads to fist fights. Furthermore, it is completely unacceptable in cross-cultural communications.
You catch a lot more ants with honey than vinegar. It's an old saying. It's my advice.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 21:27 Comments ||
Top||
#38
Jen> "And if you're not here to account for Greece's actions in the world, why ARE you here?"
As a human being interested in the happenings of the world? As a member of the western civilisation?
B> "I think you did read it."
Just skimmed it, enough to know it wasn't worth reading.
11A5S> Translator? No, you probably misunderstood a chance remark I once made about the translating job they did on the Harry Potter books -- I'm a grad Computer Science student, almost finished my Master's degree, not a translator.
Dan> "what has greece done for the WOT, besides ask for help in protecting the olympics?"
Greece has probably done no more than provide a hundred or so troops in Afghanistan. And bag some local terrorists ofcourse, but those were of communist, not Islamofascist persuasion. Now, how is this relevant on the question of whether the war on Iraq was wise or not?
BMN> if you actually articulate these positions in public, you have my respect (and if you don't, you have my understanding).
I've not had much of a chance at public speaking lately, but do you perhaps remember some violent demostrations and such incidents on Greece when Clinton had come to visit, several years back? At the time I was the only student in the whole university assembly that had vocally argued against such demonstrations, since I thought it deeply hypocritical to demonstrate against the US president when nobody had cared to demonstrate (nor would in the future care to demonstrate) against much more unsaviory characters like the president of Russia.
#39
I'd like to add that this thread has been mostly unreadable. Please, please, use italics or something to set off all of your opponents words from your own.
Hat tip Insultsunpunished
If straight talk of savagery offends you, if you believe in ethnic and gender diversity but not diversity of thought or if you think there is an acceptable gray area between good and evil, then turn to the funny pages, and take the children, too.
This piece is not for you.
We published pictures Thursday of burnt American corpses hanging from an Iraqi bridge behind a mob of grinning Muslims.
Some readers didnât like it.
Mothers said it frightened their children. A woman who works with Muslim physicians thought it might offend or endanger them.
Well, we sure donât want to frighten, offend or endanger anybody, do we? Thatâs just too much diversity to handle. I mean, somebody might get hurt.
We could fill the newspaper every morning with mobs of fanatical Muslims. They canât get along with their neighbors on much of the planet: France, Chechnya, Bosnia, Indonesia, Spain, Morocco, India, Tunisia, Somalia, etc. etc. etc. Can anybody name three ongoing world conflicts in which Muslims are not involved? Today, where there is war, there are fanatical Muslims. We might quibble about who started what conflicts, but look at the sheer number of them.
One thing is sure. Muslim killers started the one we are in now when they slaughtered more than 3,000 people, including fellow Muslims, in New York City.
Madeline Albright, the former secretary of state and feckless appeaser who helped get us into this mess, said last week Muslims still resented the Crusades. Well, Madame Albright, if Westerners were not such a forgiving people, we might resent them too.
Letâs recap the Crusades. Muslims invaded Europe and when they reached sufficient numbers they imposed their intolerant religion upon Westerners by force. Christian monarchs drove them back and took the battle to their homeland. The fight lasted a couple of centuries, and we bottled them up for 1,000 years.
Now, a millennium later, Muslims have expanded forth again. Ask France. Ask England. Ask Manhattan. Two-and-a-half years ago fanatical Muslims laid siege to us. We woke up to the obvious. Our president announced it would be a very long war, then took the battle to the Islamic homeland. Sound familiar?
Letâs consider the concept of a âlong war.â Last time it was 200 years, give or take.
Anybody catch Lord of the Rings? You know, the good part, the part that wasnât fiction, the part that drew us to the books and movies because it was the truest part: the titanic struggle between good and evil, between freedom and enslavement, between the individual and the state, between the celebration of life and the worshipping of death.
Thatâs the fight we are in, and it never ends. It just has peaks and valleys.
There may be a silent majority of peaceful Muslims â some live here â but that did not save 3,000 people in the World Trade Centers, the millions gassed and butchered in the Middle East, the tens of thousands slain in Eastern Europe and Asia, the hundreds blown to bits in the West Bank and Spain, or the four Americans shot, burned and hung like sausage over the Euphrates as a fanatical minority of Muslims did the joyful dance of death.
Maybe we are so tolerant, we are so bent on âdiversity,â we are so nonjudgmental, we are so wrapped up in our six-packs and ballgames that our brains have drained to our bulbous behinds. Maybe weâre so addled on Ritalin we wouldnât know which end of a gun to hold. Maybe we need a new drug advertised on TV every three minutes, one that would help us grow a backbone.
It doesnât take a Darwin to figure out that in this world the smartest, the fastest, the strongest, and the most committed always win. No exceptions.
Look at your spouse and children. Look at yourself in the mirror. Then look at the pictures from the paper last Thursday. You better look at them. Those are the people out to kill you.
Who do you think will win? You? Or them? Think you can take your ball and go home and they will leave you alone? Read a little history. Start with last week, last month, last year, and every other year back for half a century. Then go back a thousand years. Nobody hides from this fight.
Like it or not, thatâs the way it was and thatâs the way it is.
But many Americans donât get it.
Thatâs why we published those pictures.
If they jarred you off the sofa, if they offended you, if they scared your children and sent you into a rage at mass murderers or heartless editors, then I say, itâs a start.
Posted by: tipper ||
04/26/2004 10:41:18 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
and the wind blows.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 11:47 Comments ||
Top||
#2
This should go into Classics. It is so blindingly obvious but nevertheless needed to be said.
Posted by: Tibor ||
04/26/2004 12:43 Comments ||
Top||
#3
I wish I could read this in the NYT or the Washington Post. Maybe after the next attack or two.
#5
Check out Belmont Club...he's got a good post comparing the current decision to Black Jack Pershings assault on Moro Island.
Also, I might positthat the longer we wait, the lower on supplies the "insurgents" get. We have not allowed any re-supplies into the area, I don't believe.
#6
There was a post elsewhere on RB about the ceasefire dividing the insurgents. If the Marine commanders on the ground see that, they might just want to let things fester a while. Besides, every report we hear of skirmishes during the ceasefire are US KIA 0; enemy KIA 30. I just hope that when the Marines do take Fallujah, that ratio holds (and I hope the same is true for the Army assault on Najaf, if it ever happens).
Posted by: Tibor ||
04/26/2004 12:48 Comments ||
Top||
#7
The gauntlet has been thrown down, turn in the weapons or else. I can't see any reason the jihadies will be allowed to remain an effective fighting force. It's going to happen. When?
#10
In some ways this bothers me and sounds like micromanaging the war. (Similar to Hitler and Westmoreland)
Note: I'm too young to have been around in those times, so I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. :)
OTOH, wasn't there an Rantburg article that had the insurgents complaining about the ceasefire? "We (jihadis) had them right where we wanted them." type comments? Maybe the siege is having a good and grating psy-op affect on the insurgents.
#13
I saw the headline yesterday. If true, I think such a decision sends the wrong signal. These people understand one thing - the guy with the biggest hammer on the block is king.
As an aside, the ragheads were using a Mosque today to fire on the Marines, and our guys promptly returned fire, so it looks like Mosques are not completely off limits.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
04/26/2004 15:56 Comments ||
Top||
#14
It's going to happen. When?
Never. I'm willing to put serious money on it.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/26/2004 16:00 Comments ||
Top||
#15
Thank goodness the President let the Media in on the decision. No offensive. Nope none.
#16
These people understand one thing - the guy with the biggest hammer on the block is king.
Douglas De Bono [http://www.douglasdebono.com] 2004-04-26 3:56:14 PM
Sounds alot like Saddam Hussein.
Yes it does.
Once liberators - Today it's an occupation.
I understand you can't negotiate with people with a death wish.
Our soldiers fight and hope to come home they are willing to die but would rather not.
These Arabs thirst to die in this type of situation. .
They beleive Death is a beginning (Paradise).
Patriotism is an ideology created by man and exploited by this regime.
It's almost funny how most of you cheer on our killing in the name of the law.
We should have been out of here 6 months ago but we did not have a plan.
We still don't.
Posted by: Langs ||
04/26/2004 22:59 Comments ||
Top||
#17
"The fact that should not be forgotten is that Iraq today is under occupation," Barzani said. "Iraq does not have sovereignty or independence today."
It also is seeing its bloodiest month since the U.S. invasion.
At least 114 American soldiers and up to 1,200 Iraqis have died in April as U.S. soldiers confronted Shiite militiamen centered in the Shiite holy city of Najaf and Sunni militiamen in the city of Fallujah. U.S. soldiers still surround both cities, unable to force militants to disarm and fearful that assaulting the city would lead to many casualties on both sides.
If the U.S. takes military action, Barzani said, the United States must make a "clear distinction between civilians and terrorist elements."
But Barzani also cautioned that "at the same time, no impression can be given to the terrorists that they will be negotiated with or they are seeing any chance that they will win at the end of the day."
For decades, Barzani's KDP fielded tens of thousands of men opposed to Saddam.
When asked what he would do to resolve the sieges of Fallujah and Najaf, Barzani became animated, gesturing rapidly as he spoke and raising his soft voice.
"If it were me, I wouldn't have allowed it to come to this by making earlier mistakes," he said.
"What was a mistake is, they were liberators," Barzani said. But the U.S. Army turned into "an army of occupation," he added.
Posted by: Langs ||
04/26/2004 23:00 Comments ||
Top||
The US military is building a new airbase in south-eastern Afghanistan, in a remote desert area near the border with Pakistan. US commanders say the airstrip, in Paktika province, will be capable of taking large transport aircraft. The move is aimed at improving security in the region. It should also allow US forces to move in more ground troops to combat remnants of the Taleban and al-Qaeda, who remain active in the area. The operation began in the dark, with five giant US air force planes dropping tons of construction equipment onto the desert plateau where the airstrip is being built. Under the terms of being with the unit of US soldiers, the exact location cannot be given.
Kind of hard to hide a entire airbase
I planted hedges around mine. Nobody ever notices it...
Soldiers on the ground guided in the planes, which had flown all the way from Germany. Work began soon afterwards, bulldozing the hard, rocky scrub. In less than four days' time, the troops of the 27th Combat Engineering Battalion aim to have created an airstrip capable of taking C-130 transport aircraft. Even larger aircraft will eventually be able to land here.
C-17s most likely, plus the AC-130s, A-10s and choppers.
US commanders will not say exactly how they intend to use the base, but it will allow them to move far larger forces into this region more quickly. This is an area where suspected Taleban militants remain active and just across the border is the Pakistani tribal area of Waziristan, where until recently Islamic militants were battling the Pakistani military.
Humm, giving up on the Pak offensive and prepping for our own?
The new American presence on this side of the border has so far attracted little attention, apart from a few trucks on a nearby road. But US forces are keeping a close watch on the area, with aircraft patrolling as well as troops on the ground.
Gee, a new air base out in the middle of nowhere with nobody watching. Somebody has a plan to open a new can of whoop ass.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 9:54:17 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Maybe this is just a decoy..you know to atract the jihadi to attack America, another flypaper thingy.
#5
but he agreed to accept them before he agreed to decline them.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/26/2004 11:43 Comments ||
Top||
#6
You'd be surprised how easy it is to hide an airfield. We have three or four that are almost impossible to see, even from the air. The Soviets hid one we probably would never have found, if we hadn't caught an aircraft on the runway. Camouflage, concealment, and deception is something we do quite well. Hiding the BUILDING of one is another matter...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/26/2004 12:43 Comments ||
Top||
#7
Yosemite Sam.. you nearly made me spit my soda on the company computer!
#8
OP: I saw the Israeli airfield at Ras Nas Mohamed in the Sinai. They built a dirt strip next to the concrete strip. They would light up the dirt strip at night and leave the real one dark. The Egyptians would come screaming in at night and bomb the decoy strip. Nine years after the Israelis turned it over, the decoy strip was completely cratered while there was no evidence that the real strip had ever been bombed.
Also, have you ever driven the causeway from the Singapore airport to the city? There is a reason that the median consists completely of potted plants.
#9
Also, have you ever driven the causeway from the Singapore airport to the city? There is a reason that the median consists completely of potted plants.
Yup, to a trained AF eye it jumps right out. Also those straight highways in Switzerland that take a sudden turn just before those big doors in the side of a mountain.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 14:46 Comments ||
Top||
#10
its been rumored that there are stretches of highway here in the US that were made for the same purpose....
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/26/2004 15:49 Comments ||
Top||
#11
I'm just wanting to see a D-9 make a parachute landing.
#12
11A5S, somehow I don't picture Egyptian bombers accurate enough to never hit the real runway.
Posted by: john ||
04/26/2004 16:00 Comments ||
Top||
#13
YS - it was required that every interstate highway be constructed so as to provide air landing capability. Note the regularly spaced long straight stretches
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/26/2004 16:11 Comments ||
Top||
#14
John, I agree. But I've seen it from the air several times. I walked a good portion of the real runway, too and never saw any evidence of cratering. A lot of the bombs did miss the decoy. I guess the IAF just did a good job of figuring out the distance between the two necessary to minimize damage to the real one.
OTOH, I've flown over the Egyptian border forts from the '67 war also. If a single IDF round or bomb landed outside the fortress walls, I couldn't see any evidence of it.
#15
C-17s most likely, plus the AC-130s, A-10s and choppers.
I would assume that they have plans to secure the larger surrounding area. It would be a hell of a black eye to lose a Globemaster or Galaxy to enemy fire while on approach.
#16
its been rumored that there are stretches of highway here in the US that were made for the same purpose....
Interstate highways that travel straight for ten miles or more that are three lanes wide but don't have ten cars an hour over them, back country highways that suddenly become MUCH wider than they need to be, a lot of "passing lanes" in out-of-the-way places that take a normal highway into something 300 feet wide and over two miles long...
Naaaaa, we don't have anything like that! Whatever gave you such a silly idea? 8^)
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/26/2004 19:21 Comments ||
Top||
#17
OP-
There's two stretches of road identical to what you described in the area where I grew up - one next to a tank plant that used to be owned by GM, and another next to a Big 3 assembly plant. People never listened to me when I tried to tell them...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/26/2004 19:53 Comments ||
Top||
#18
The closeness of the Airbase to anti al Qaeda operations -- especially the hunt for top leaders -- make sense for getting the most out of resources. UAVs will play a large role. Imagine armed UAVs with Viper Strike glide weapons and software image recognition technology highlighted at
At least seven Tamil Tiger rebels have been shot dead in eastern Sri Lanka, the rebel movement says. A Tiger statement said unidentified attackers had opened fire on a rebel camp near Batticaloa, some 220km east of Colombo. No group has said it carried out the attack. Earlier this month, the rebels defeated, but did not capture, a renegade commander in the area.
He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.
Batticaloa is controlled by the army, but rebels control pockets around it.
Then it's not controlled by the army...
A Tiger statement said the seven men were gunned down overnight on Sunday by men in a white van.
Ahah! It was the Beltway Sniper! I'd recognize that white box truck anywhere!
"O.J.! The real killers are over here!"
A complaint had been lodged with the Scandinavian mission which monitors a truce between rebels and the government, the statement said.
"I'm sorry, we only monitor fighting between you and government forces. Fighting between rebel groups is outside our charter."
"You should refer this to our mighty Uruguyan colleagues."
The Tigers say the attack took place at a home for disabled fighters inside rebel territory. Four of those killed were reportedly disabled, and the other three were guarding the home.
Shooting the cripples, how very brave.
"Yeah, but they wuz mean cripples! An' their baby ducks wuz vicious!"
Although the identity of the assailants is unknown, the Sri Lankan army said they could be loyalists of the renegade commander, Colonel Karuna. His breakaway faction of the rebels was defeated in the Batticaloa area earlier this month. The political head of the Tigers, SP Thamilselvan, also blamed the killings on Colonel Karuna's men. The deputy chief of European ceasefire monitors in Sri Lanka, Hagrup Haukland, said that his officials were investigating the incident. The ceasefire monitors say they have not been shown the bodies of the rebels who were killed - despite repeated requests, and have been given no explanation as to why.
Hummm, maybe they ain't dead?
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 9:39:26 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
SOFIA: Bulgarian President Georgi Parvanovmade a surprise visit to his country's contingent in Karbala. His motorcade was attacked by unidentified gunmen and the Bulgarian security guards fired at the assailants, but there were no casualties. During the unannounced visit, Parvanov also met with US civil governor in Iraq Paul Bremer and Commander of US forces Gen. Ricardo Sanchez.
Welcome to Karbala, hit the dirt.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 9:36:02 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Maybe the gunmen were just firing their AK's into the air in a festive manner, displaying that world-famous Arabian hospitality...
EFL - Marines doing what they do so well
Just a day after U.S. officials announced that a fragile cease-fire in the Fallujah was being extended, Marines were engaged Monday in an intense firefight with insurgents in a northern district of the besieged city. The firefight began Monday morning after a Marine platoon left their small base and moved 200 yards away to occupy two small houses. Enemy forces opened up with barrage of rockets, mortar and automatic weapons. In Fallujah, coalition mortars hit a mosque in the northwest edge of the city and marines on the ground called in air support and were joined by two tanks and two Cobra attack helicopters that shelled insurgents. Four marines suffered shrapnel wounds.
Posted by: OldSpook ||
04/26/2004 8:49:36 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Proving what I said a few days ago...that American's now understand that our enemy is a barbarian, and we will treat them accordingly. While we once would have respected mosques, ambulances and human shields, we now understand that our enemy does not, and we are forced to act accordingly.
Apparently our enemy still don't understand us, but we are starting to understand them.
#3
Watching the news coverage (Fox, et. al.) this morning, the focus was Coalition Forces attacked a mosque, see the oily black smoke. These same people weren't troubled by islamic thugs turning the Church of the Nativity into a latrine.
We've become altogether too "sensitive" for our own good. We let the enemy take free shots at our sons and daughters rather take the chance of offending the enemy by shooting back. Wars aren't won by touchy-feely metrosexuals who agonize about how the other side just doesn't understand us, they're won by soldiers and marines who resolutely, and with perfect moral clarity, kill the bad guys. It's time for our boys and girls to get on with killing the bad guys and let the aging flower-children in the media stand in a corner and talk to themselves.
#4
The US military should start embedding reporters with the troops again and make sure the facts get out on whats going on. Get some photo evidence of what the bad guys are doing and spread it around the world. Combat the propoganda and overly sensitive mindset with a stark does of reality.
#5
RWV, I'm not sure metrosexual is the right word. A metrosexual is a metrosexual man so concerned with his looks that he primps, bathes, gets his nails done, wears fine clothes and puts product in his hair (like a girl). I could be wrong, but from my experience most peaceniks do not bath enough to be considered metrosexuals.
#6
Ruprecht - I think there is a certain contingent of metrosexuals(*) who along with all the primping and such, adopt what they believe to be the fashionable viewpoint. In this case, they would believe the fashionable viewpoint would be some sort of anti-war, anti-Haliburton(**) stance.
Of course Lola Granola's male counterpart is highly unlikely to be a metrosexual.
--
(*) My own definition of metrosexual is "Urban Narcissist".
(**) Next time you hear someone reflexively spewing about Haliburton, ask them if they mean the people who make the aluminum briefcases. It is really funny sometimes to hear what they think Haliburton does.
EFL - Lead editorial
TWO WEEKS AGO, Sudanâs government agreed to a humanitarian cease-fire in Darfur... The cease-fire, however, has not been honored. Sudanâs Islamic and Arab government has a long history of denying humanitarian access to civilians as part of its long war with Christian and animist Africans in the south. It is applying those same tactics to Darfur, whose people, though Islamic, share the southernersâ aspiration for regional autonomy...
And the bad luck to be living on top of several kajillion barrels of oil ...
A final breakthrough may be announced in the next week or two. Although this progress owes much to international pressure -- and in particular, the Sudanese governmentâs fear that, after the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the Bush administration was serious about punishing rogue states —
[a sort of WaPo âattaboyâ for Bush]
the United States and its allies seem reluctant to apply more pressure on the Darfur issue... They worry that excessive pressure will cause Sudanâs government to pull out of talks with the south
[and here they critized Bush for being too nuanced]
or that Sudan will refuse to permit U.N.-authorized monitors to implement an eventual north-south deal. But Sudan should not be allowed to get away with denying U.N. officials visas and refusing to live up to its cease-fire promises. If it can do that with impunity, it will assume that it has no need to live up to any promises it makes in a north-south settlement. once again the WashPost surprizes - critizing Bush for being soft on Islamicist Sudan- in its lead editorial yet
Posted by: mhw ||
04/26/2004 8:46:42 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Bah. No matter WHAT happens, Bush'll be criticized. The only way to act around these people is to do what you think is right, and let them know not to delude themselves that what they thought or said had ANYTHING to do with your actions.
#3
US policy should be to chop up countries that cannot get along in order to avoid future genocides. It would send a nice message to the Shia and Sunni in Iraq. Sudan would be a perfect example and easy to rationalie to boot.
Sure, wiping out the top leaders always makes an organization better. EFL.
GAZA CITY -- In the wake of Israeli airstrikes that have decapitated the leadership of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the Palestinian militant group may become even more fragmented and radicalized than before, leading to new dangers for Israel, according to Palestinian political leaders and analysts familiar with the internal operations of the organization. "The worst thing is a headless Hamas," said Eyad Sarraj, a prominent Palestinian apologistpsychiatrist and human rights advocate who has closely monitored the role of Hamas in the Gaza Strip. "A headless Hamas means too many heads, too many agendas. Then you can't control exactly what happens."
"So stop killing our leaders. Please."
With the assassination of the most influential leaders of Hamas, and raids that have killed or captured nearly the entire West Bank military command structure, the military wing in the Gaza Strip has become the most dominant faction of the organization, according to Israeli military officials and Palestinian officials.
Mohammed Deif and Adnan Ghoul, the leaders of the military wing -- known as the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades -- remain in command, and the ranks of disciplined and well-armed fighters are largely intact, Palestinian and Israeli officials said. "The new generation of leaders thinks in only one way -- the military wings," said Imad Falouji, a Palestinian legislator and former Hamas member who has authored a book about the organization. "The new policy is more dangerous for Israel than ever before. Now there is only a military policy; there is nothing political now."
In recent weeks, Hamas has engaged in intense discussion with other Palestinian factions over control of the Gaza Strip in the event that Israel pulls out. Though the committee has existed since 1996, members said it has been most active since the start of the uprising against Israel. The group has attempted to impose some order on the often conflicting Palestinian factions. The committee's weekly meetings had increased to two and three times a week but stopped with the assassination April 17 of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, members said.
"Um, next week we're meeting at ... Mahmoud's house!"
While many members of the panel hold permanent seats, Hamas has rotated its participants, giving other members a glimpse into the personalities and structure of the secretive group. The senior leadership also shared the seat with the next tier of Hamas political officials, who are now the highest-ranking members of the Hamas political hierarchy in Gaza. "No one person monopolized the decisions of Hamas," said Ziad Abu Amr, an independent Palestinian legislator who sits on the committee.
In the absence of Yassin and Rantisi, it is unclear how power will be wielded inside Hamas, but the key players are certain to include the leaders of the Gaza military wing as well as whoever assumes control of the political faction.
Brilliant, Holmes!
Israeli officials said that despite the damage to the Hamas infrastructure, the organization has not lost its capacity to launch serious attacks against Israelis. "On the operational level, we managed to put a lot of constraints on them," said a senior Israeli intelligence official who spoke on the condition that he not be identified by name. "We've been successful, relatively speaking. But it's not the end. It's a wide and deep organization."
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/26/2004 12:51:27 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
This is the kind of thinking that's kept the Palestinian issue festering for almost six decades. Israelis are great at tactics, but can't seem to get their strategy down. Decapitation is a strategy that has worked since the beginning of time, but the Israelis just can't bring themselves to do it, making one excuse after another about how it doesn't work. Right - this must be why Israel's enemies are so opposed to these strikes.
#2
Because the decapitation strikes scrambling the leadership it gives the Israeli informants in Hamas a chance for better positioning.
The most important thing however is that it hurts Hamas prestige. The big buck saudi sheiks who have provided lots of $ in the past don't want to give money to a losing operation.
#3
You realize that the rationale behind the main point of this 'article' is the statement of Palestinian Political Officials?! How fucking ridiculous. In other news, 'The West Is Immoral and Evil'...according to Osama 'bin splattered on a cave wall' Ladden. Nope, no media bias.
#5
Hmph... 'Killings May Make Hamas More Formidable,' and for that matter 'Absence Of Killings May Make Hamas More Formidable.'
Me, I'd go with the 'Killings' option. Save for the few moments of writhing just after decapitation, a headless snake is much easier to catch than one with its eyeballs still attached...
Posted by: Mark O ||
04/26/2004 9:47 Comments ||
Top||
#6
This was "above the fold" on the WAPO yesterday. Joining it was a picture of a crying child who had been badly injured and her distraught mother, clad in Muslim-modesty-attire.
Like I said, they've moved beyond pretending and started shilling.
#7
the headline righter seems to have confused "makes Hamas more dangerous" (arguable) and "makes Hamas more formidable" (absurd).
What the article says in summary - 1. Hamas will now be fragmented, and less controllable by anyone. 2. Military leaders who just want to blow things up will be running things, instead of "politicals" who want to blow things up, but will temporarily stop blowing things up in cooperation with the PA, and may work with the PA on running Gaza.
Now its clear that losing Rantissi and his ability to control the Hamas loonies makes said loonies, and Gaza in general, more dangerous for at least those elements in the PA that wanted to work with Hamas. It almost certainly DOES NOT make Hamas more dangerous to Israel, since the hudnas didnt protect Israeli security. And it ABSOLUTELY does not make Hamas more "formidable" since unguided military action is unlikely to lead to political gains in the long run.
This isnt WaPo shilling for the other side - its a WaPo reporter substituting interviews with locals for ANALYSIS on a strategic subject where ANALYSIS is whats called for. And then the headline writer flubbing it.
The WaPo is still on the right side. But they often are not as analytic as the NYT. One would like a paper with the outlook of the WaPo, and the journalistic depth of the Times - but there is none. The WSJ is good if rather far to the right for my tastes, but WSJ doesnt cover non-business international affairs in enough depth.
#8
For some reason our friends in the Middle East think this argument (don't kill the bad guys, it'll only make them worse) only works one way. I remember Hosni Mubarak, the world's wealthiest welfare recipient, saying last year that attacking Iraq would create 100 or 1000 Osama's. But I've never seen a statement from the ME like "The jihadis burned the bodies of four Americans! Now they've gone and done it. The Marines are going to kick their asses up and down the stairs."
Posted by: Matt ||
04/26/2004 10:21 Comments ||
Top||
#9
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
- Mahmoud bin-Kenobi
Posted by: Cthulhu Akbar ||
04/26/2004 10:44 Comments ||
Top||
#10
Adnan Ghoul? How appropriate
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/26/2004 10:59 Comments ||
Top||
#11
The decapitations make a Palestinian civil war more likely. This is a good thing as far as Israel is concerned.
#13
General Ghoul - Can we use the paint scrapers to clean you up off the street after the Israelis hit you with that missile?
After all we will be in as fragmented a condition as you, although only figuratively, so that we won't know what to do. We will be lost without your benevolent leadership and guidance.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 16:18 Comments ||
Top||
#16
..."We've been successful, relatively speaking. But it's not the end. It's a wide and deep organization."...
Hmmm... wide and deep. Kind of like the caves in Tora Bora. In that case, I'm thinking that the IDF will have to break out the Bunker Busters for the next smackdown.
The British Government has prepared a series of options aimed at boosting the number of British troops in Iraq to make up for the withdrawal of the Spanish contingent, The Times reports. The options "range from sending 1,500 to 2,000 troops to fill the gaps left by the Spanish, to taking over command of a second multinational division in central south Iraq," the daily says. "In return for increased commitment, Britain is expected to demand a higher level of influence over how security is managed in Iraq."
If British forces are to be deployed further north, around flashpoints like the holy city of Najaf, "one option for ministers was for Britain to take over command of the central south division currently led by a Polish general," the paper quotes Ministry of Defence sources as saying.
The paper continues: "One suggestion is that Britain could ask NATO to allow the British led Allied Rapid Reaction Corps (ARRC) headquarters in Germany to be released to take over command from the Poles". The ARRC, headed by Lieutenant General Richard Dannatt, is 60 per cent composed of British soldiers. However, the paper says NATO has ruled out allowing the ARRC to be deployed in Iraq under its auspices.
The British currently head the south-eastern multinational division with about 8,000 personnel around Basra, Iraq's second city.
"Defence sources acknowledged that the British appeared to be the only ones capable of expanding their forces level" alongside the 135,000 American troops in Iraq, the broadsheet reports.
Don't take the central away from the Poles, just adjust the admin lines a little. Gotta keep the Poles in this.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/26/2004 12:25:44 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
The Foreign Ministry on Friday reiterated its concern over alleged Turkish and Saudi support for rebels fighting federal forces in Chechnya. "We remain concerned over the activities of a series of nongovernmental social organizations on Turkish territory and individuals who, according to our information, are continuing to provide political, material and other support to the terrorists operating in Chechnya," Deputy Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Trubnikov said. He said there were "certain forces" in Saudi Arabia "who see the events in the Northern Caucasus from the position of Islamic extremists." He said that charity organizations and other social and religious groups frequently gave financial and material help to Chechen separatists.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:29:06 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
Skipping through a very interesting Pakistani editorial on the ramifications of the recent amnesty ...
But the problem with this approach is that local abettors like Nek Muhammad are actually a part of the Taliban-Al Qaeda network. As disclosed by PTV, Nek Muhammad was commandant of a guerrilla training camp in Afghanistan before he decided to take his trainees, most of them from Chechnya and Uzbekistan, to South Waziristan, to use as a launching pad for attacks inside Afghanistan. Talking to a newspaper reporter after the âpardonâ, Nek Muhammad still swore allegiance to âAmirul Momineenâ Mullah Omar rather than Pakistan â because the Taliban leader was âthe caliph of all Muslims.'
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:26:34 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Dragon Fly, very interesting. I find it funny, the idea that the Muslims could decide on one individual as a caliphate. Indeed, I think that we could get them at each other's throats in an instant if we actually allowed talk of WHO would gets to don the crown of the caliphate.
But..alas....I suppose that is just foolhardy wishful thinking.
Four Russian servicemen were killed and six were wounded in a clash with rebels near the Chechen capital Grozny, an official in the Kremlin-backed Chechen administration said on Sunday. The casualties occurred as Russian troops and Chechen rebels skirmished on Saturday near Starye Atagi, 20 kilometres south of Grozny, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Four soldiers were killed and nine were wounded in rebel attacks on Russian positions over the past 24 hours, while two were killed and five were wounded when a military truck hit a land mine in the Nadterechny region of northern Chechnya, the official said. In Grozny, two Chechens working in the Moscow-supported police force were killed and two more wounded in a shootout on Saturday, the official said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:22:25 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
This report sounds painfully like something out of Iraq. This war seems to go on forever with no end in sight. The Russians seem to be able to sustain the endless stream of casualties because apparently they don't face political pressure at home. Yet they haven't found a way to end the violence. The west is going to have to find a way to win these wars (Chechnya and Iraq) decisively, or the jihadis will just keep coming.
#2
What goes around comes around. Stalin created the current "peace" movement as a means to hogtie and slander the United States to allow him to spread communism everywhere. It was kept intact by his successors, so even though the old Soviet Union dissolved,gone, but the people who followed old Joe's recipie and agenda found that it could be tweaked to serve THEIR purposes.
Thus, thanks to the infrastructure laid down decades ago, nobody save americans seems to REALLY believe that the United States would hand over power to the Iraquis. Even if some do, its to their advantage to ACT as if they don't believe it. Hotheads like Tater feed on that rhetoric, reprocess it, spew it out, and act on it. He would have been better off waiting until July 4 to start his little uprising...
Afghan President Hamid Karzai, returning Sunday to a Taliban stronghold where he was nearly assassinated 19 months ago, said he would welcome rank-and-file members of the militia back into society. But Karzai said about 150 leaders of the movement supplanted by his government after a U.S.-led war were unworthy of rehabilitation and could be prosecuted. "Our problem is mainly with the top Taliban -- who may number no more than 150 people -- who had links with al Qaeda," said Karzai, referring to Osama bin Laden's terrorist network. "Those people are the enemies of Afghanistan, and we are against them. But those Taliban who are doing jobs and tilling the fields and working as shopkeepers, we want to welcome those Taliban." The president has said in the past that he believed most Taliban members could be reintegrated into society, but this appeared to be the first time he put a number on those the nation sought to prosecute.
Karzai said the government had been negotiating with less radical Taliban leaders for months, though he did not give names or other details. Officials did not expect that Taliban leader Mohammad Omar and his inner circle would be offered an olive branch by the government. The idea of reintegrating less radical members of the Taliban has been floated for months. There also have been reports that the government is negotiating with some supporters of a renegade warlord, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, in an effort to get them to switch sides. The notion appears to have U.S. support. On Tuesday, the U.S. ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, said he favored amnesty for all but the worst members of the old government -- those who had allied themselves with the al Qaeda network and committed crimes against humanity. It was Karzai's first trip to Kandahar since a gunman opened fire on him in September 2002 outside the provincial governor's house. Security was tight Sunday, and a local security official said at least one man was arrested in Kandahar on suspicion of plotting terrorist acts.
A two-car U.N. convoy carrying national and international staff working on preparations for September elections was targeted in a bombing attack Thursday on a road just outside Kandahar, U.N. spokesman David Singh said at a news conference in the capital on Sunday. There were no injuries, but one of the vehicles was damaged and thrown several yards after the bomb exploded. A man believed to be trying to plant a bomb at another point on the same road blew himself up earlier that morning.
The United Nations has warned that if security throughout the country does not improve, it will be nearly impossible to hold successful elections. The vote was to take place in June, but violence has slowed voter registration, forcing the delay. The government has said it hopes to disarm 40 percent of the estimated 100,000 private militiamen throughout the country by the end of June, though many observers say that goal is optimistic. On his Kandahar trip, Karzai met with the governor and tribal elders. He urged residents to participate in the elections by registering to vote and called on militiamen under the control of local warlords to embrace the government's disarmament program, which provides economic benefits for those who give up their weapons. Karzai also traveled to his home town, Karz, just outside Kandahar, and visited his father's grave.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:13:28 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
I think Karzai is wise! You go guy!! This is the way to do things. Obviously, there are many in Afghanistan who support the Taliban's idea of doing things. While we understand that it's a throw-back of several thousand years, that's not important. What's important is that he is giving them a voice in the government. That's what a representative democracy is all about.
Suicide boat strikes on Iraq's main southern oil terminal may have halted the export of some three million barrels of crude in a blow to an industry expected to drive Iraq's post-war reconstruction, the interim oil minister said. Crude oil exports from the main Al-Basra Oil Terminal that stopped because of a power cut are hoped to restart Monday, according to Ibrahim Bahr al-Ulum. The total export loss could be "about three million" barrels, he said. Up to 90 percent of Iraq's daily oil exports of 1.6 million barrels per day are loaded through the offshore southern oil terminals, the minister and officials said.
A small team from the US-military based in Bahrain was Sunday investigating the attacks, said Commander James Graybeal, spokesman for the Fifth Fleet. Asked if the US military believed Al-Qaeda was behind the attacks, Graybeal said: "That's exactly why we sent in an investigation team to answer that and other questions." Ulum said it was his "feeling" that Al-Qaeda was behind the attack but did not have evidence to back it up. "We believe that those who are carrying out these terrorist actions don't want peace for Iraq. They don't want a prosperous future for the Iraqis. We have heard of foreign elements in these attacks." When the industry is fully up and running, the US-led coalition wants it to provide a vital part of the hard currency revenues needed to rebuild the country. Previously, insurgents concentrated their attacks on Iraq's northern oilfields, repeatedly hitting the main export pipeline to Turkey.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:10:03 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Find out where the boats came from. Best bet is Iran.
#2
BAGHDAD: Oil exports resumed overnight at Iraq's main terminal in the southern city of Basra, after being halted by foiled waterborne suicide attacks, interim Iraqi oil minister Ibrahim Bahr al-Ulum said on Monday.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/26/2004 9:34 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Find out where the boats came from. Best bet is Iran.
Good possibility. It isn't that big a deal to transit from there. Problem is, there's about a half-dozen launching-places I can think of off-hand in Iraq, plus maybe three or four other options.
#11
Anti brainwar : will you PLEASE get off it. (And change your name, while you're at it.)
You are pro-war.
Yes, you are.
You are anti-West, pro-jihad.
If you were really against violence and war, we would expect from you a real diatribe against anyone attacking a KINDERGARTEN (are you listening?) But that's okay. You're just a propaganda machine for the Islamos you defend. (You're personally involved with at least one of the "Heroes" of Islam, correct? Or is this just your own special cause--one that you are totally impassioned about--all by your little lonesome?)
No worries, though. We're used to your drivel. No one takes you seriously, anyway.
(P.S. Stay away from little kids, okay? Especially if you've got a rock in your hands)
#16
Ah, so now we see the true face of "Anti"war. She's not filled with "evil venom" and "hatred," she just wishes that other people will get cancer. But really, she's antiwar.
#19
Anti-war, it seems you are dying slowly by a cancer that has attacked your soul, not your body.
And its obvious you regard a cancer of the body as more threatning that a cancer of the soul, maybe that is your whole problem.
#22
Boo hoo, a revolting Nazi sympathizer doesn't like me.
Yeah, the problem at the kindergarten wasn't the subhumans who were throwing rocks on it, but what the children there were being taught (standard tactic of "anti-Zionist" Jew-haters like "Anti"war). What are the Arab children being taught, sweetheart? Is it on that al-khalifah website too?
#23
I'M not the Nazi.The al-khilafah.info website contains photographs and stories of the Genocidal slaughter of Palestinains by Israel.As well it has photos of little Iraqi babies who are VERY severeley deformed due to depleted uranium(ring a bell?) and Iraqi's injured and killed by cluster bombs (ding dong ding dong) and as well as the effect of Sanctions.BMN YOU are the Nazi.
#25
As well it has photos of little Iraqi babies who are VERY severeley deformed due to depleted uranium
Bullhockey. Have an honest pediatrician look at those photos, and you'll get a lecture on vitamin deficiencies during pregnancy and the normal occurences of birth defects.
Anyone remember the LGF thread where that took place? It was very educational.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 13:33 Comments ||
Top||
#26
Today's lesson, for AntiWar:
"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him.
Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
#27
Robert have you seen them??? These are not ordinary birth defects. I work as a carer for people with physical disabilities (most are also severley and profoundly intellectually disabled as well) and believe me not one of them was as deformed as those babies in Iraq. Btw there were also babies deformed by nutrional deficiency (probably from sanctions)as well so you are a little bit right in a sense.
#28
im forgot. antiwar you go to my link and you see pichur of what you like when wishing cancer. im liking you antiwar but please not do that anymore wishing cancer.
#29
Of course you're a Nazi, "Anti"war--you're a Hamas-worshipping national socialist, whose only regret is that her enemies don't get cancer, and that MORE Jewish schools aren't stoned. You do know that the heroic Palestinian Arab Grand Mufti of the WWII period spent the war in Nazi Germany, right?
Your al-Khalifah propaganda site is great stuff (tell us, you Jewhater, what "al-Khalifah" means; you really don't know, do you?). You obviously don't know a thing about depleted uranium (for example--it's DEPLETED).
Sanctions? I thought that's what kept your friend Saddam "in a box"--that's TODAY'S Islamofascist/Baathist sympathizer talking point. You've used the pre-war one by mistake. Surely your sociology professor will be upset.
Anyway, I am always amused to see your defective semiliterate rantings on this site. Keep going. It's extremely unconvincing stuff.
#30
Of course you're a Nazi, "Anti"war--you're a Hamas-worshipping national socialist, whose only regret is that her enemies don't get cancer, and that MORE Jewish schools aren't stoned. You do know that the heroic Palestinian Arab Grand Mufti of the WWII period spent the war in Nazi Germany, right?
Your al-Khalifah propaganda site is great stuff (tell us, you Jewhater, what "al-Khalifah" means; you really don't know, do you?). You obviously don't know a thing about depleted uranium (for example--it's DEPLETED).
Sanctions? I thought that's what kept your friend Saddam "in a box"--that's TODAY'S Islamofascist/Baathist sympathizer talking point. You've used the pre-war one by mistake. Surely your sociology professor will be upset.
Anyway, I am always amused to see your defective semiliterate rantings on this site. Keep going. It's extremely unconvincing stuff.
#31
Squawk - George Bush is Bad - Squawk!!
Squawk - Americans are Bad - Squawk11
Squawk!! Zionists are bad - Squawk!!
Squawk!! I am a parrot, that's all I know how to say - Squawk, Squawk!!
#32
anti-war, you care for people with physical disabilities and you wish cancer on people?
I hope none of your patients are people who disagree with you politically!
#33
Mojo the Israelites are not the Israelis. The Palestinians are the descendants of Moses etc who were Jews then Christians etc etc(have said this before}The Israelis are mainly descendants of Non-semitic people from Europe who converted to Judaism.Therefore they have no claim on the land (have also said this before)
#34
But, "Anti"war, the HOLY UN says that the Jews DO have claims on the land! Oh, what to do, what to do?
And then there is the Sephardim issue...oh my! How can we explain that "Anti"war's wonderful Arabs expelled hundreds of thousands of them? And then there's the Hebron massacre, etc...but gosh that just cuts into the Arab narrative of victimhood...someone might think they were savages...it's not like they were throwing rocks at children or something, or selling the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in every bookstore in the Arab world, not that the Protocols aren't true...well maybe they are and maybe they aren't...
#36
Antiwar, you said âEx-lib you indeed deserve to die slowly maybe from a cancer that attacks all your bones and organs you are so filled with evil venom and hatred you probably will.âAn anathema on that!
Unbelievable!
Antiwar, from your old posts you claim to live in Australia, and favor an ecumenical/humanistic/universalistic kind of multicultural approach to human governance. How, pray tell, does saying someone deserves âto die slowly maybe from a cancerâ match that kind of supposedly benevolent philosophy. Living in Australia, you know all about the problems of islamofascism, because you hear about those excesses in Indonesia all the time. So youâre not ignorant, right? But you want to sit in judgment on all of humanity, right? Youâre not really opposed to war, right? Rather, isnât it true that your brand of liberalism is just the newest form of fascism? My guess is that you are actually a New Ager who believes (a la David Spangler and Barbara Marx Hubbard) that anyone not capable of âevolvingâ to your way of thinking should be exterminated. Am I right?
#37
TS Where do I start?Firstly the people I look after are severely and profoundly retarded(i.e they have more brains than you)so they do not HAVE political views. Especially rightwing zionazi lets cluster bomb Iraq views. BMN thE Zionists collaborated with the Nazis and learned their lesson well and practice it today. Re propaganda do you think Alkhilafah made up those photos and if so how? Got a child to remove the top of her head???
#38
Antiwar, I've listened to the opinions of doctors who have seen those pictures; they were quite clear that the problems shown were either in the standard run of birth defects, due to nutritional problems, or the results of errors during delivery. Your declaration that you've never seen a living person with such severe problems means nothing to me, because you've never demonstrated a level of medical competence those doctors have.
And if you want to blame anyone for nutritional problems, look to the UN:
1) The sanctions were UN mandated. Not the US; the UN. You clear on that second letter? It's an 'N', not an 'S'.
2) The oil-for-food program was UN run. Instead of making sure the Iraqis got the food and medical supplies they needed, the UN pocketed cash, accepted bribes, and let Saddam build palaces and buy weapons with the money.
Oh, and let's not forget that the sanctions were the peace movement's idea!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 14:02 Comments ||
Top||
#39
I still don't understand how the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent WWII in Berlin, receiving personal audiences with Hitler. Please explain it to me, "Anti"war.
#40
antiwar - you are contradicting yourself and showing your true colors. a person who trully believes in no-war (what i take from ant-war) would not take sides in a war. you discredit yourself with this thread. you should change your name to anti-jew..... i am no lover of jews or arabs but do believe that all people have the right of self-defense. and please do not start ranting about the paleos...if so then include the jordanians, eyptians, brits, turks/ottomans in your response. these are all the countries that at one time occupied this so called palestian state.
i have to aree with cingold - you do sound like a new ager - and you cannot accept a difference of opinion.
bottom line - as with all new agers - your an idiot. I am still waiting for a post from you that shows thought and logic.
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 14:05 Comments ||
Top||
#41
Dan...I hope you aren't holding your breath!
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 14:08 Comments ||
Top||
#42
Chinditz(Evert?)no speed.Cingold what the bloody hell was that. Robert yes I know they were UN mandated but maybe as a member the US could have had the sanctions lifted instead of supporting the as necessary(as in Madeleine Albright)I would never support sanctions.
#44
Robert yes I know they were UN mandated but maybe as a member the US could have had the sanctions lifted instead of supporting the as necessary(as in Madeleine Albright
Ah, "Anti"war, one of your patients is posting on your computer again.
#46
e propaganda do you think Alkhilafah made up those photos and if so how?
They collected every photo of a birth defect they could find in Iraq and put them in once place. They left out all the healthy births, and gave no indication of how common or uncommon the conditions are. They also excluded any explanation of those conditions except the ones they wanted you to believe -- ie, no mention of inbreeding, nutrional problems, or defects that just naturally pop up on occasion.
Now do you understand how it can be propaganda?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 14:11 Comments ||
Top||
#47
antiwar-You said MOST of the people you care for are menatlly disabled, not all.
That is beside the point tho really, as someone who is a health care worker should not be a person who wishes bone cancer on someone who disagrees with their political views.
You have no business providing healthcare for ANYONE.
I can only hope that someone traces you, finds out who you are, and reports your comments to your employer.
You talk so much about Nazi's, no wonder...maybe you admire that they actually did the things you are talking about to their opponents, medical experiements, giving people diseases, etc.
#51
Robert stop watching Foxnews.BMN you are beyond hope. TS(vice girl-really hahahaha do you get paid for it?)What the hell are you on about-tired from a hard nights work?I am very much against the Nazis there hope I set your mind at rest.
#53
"Antiwar-Confronter": Calling into question the absolute, unvarying truth of the UNQUESTIONABLE WORD OF ALLAH is a real good way to get accused of heresy.
#56
I repeat, again: Antiwar, let me make this simple. You are a New Ager, aren't you? Inquiring minds want to know, and BTW rules of evidence would indicate that your silence tends to prove you are a New Ager.
#58
B. - no man no way I would hold my breath for this idiot. but she/he/it posts/spews bull....
and what is the aniwar-confronter??? sounds and smells like anti-war...nazi-zionist collaboration...spent too much time in arab texts.. and there it goes again with the dubya shit...
more rants from an idiot - can't even bring thoughtfull responses to a debate...
Posted by: Dan ||
04/26/2004 14:40 Comments ||
Top||
#59
Ah, Antiwar . . . So you have no philosophical basis for wishing ill on someone who does not agree with your liberal humanistic fascism? Then, you would be merely a bigot and an idiot. Is that the case? Or, on what basis do you wish ill on those who challenge your opinions? It is an apparent contradiction for someone claiming to be âantiwar,â isnât it? And, yes, I fully support President George W. Bush, but I don't call him "Dubya." Is it those kinds of nuances that allow you to say you're not a New Ager?
#60
Cingold if you support Dubya then you should be ashamed. I am going to go to bed now and will read The Five Biggest Lies Bush Told Us About Iraq by Christopher Scheer etc.
#61
"Ex-lib you indeed deserve to die slowly maybe from a cancer that attacks all your bones and organs you are so filled with evil venom and hatred you probably will."
Whoa, baby! Put the rock down!
Antiwar speaks just like an Isamofacist! I guess she's been around these guys so long, now she's even starting to sound like one herself. Imagine that. Unless she is one of those guys . . . I wonder . . .)
According to Antibrainwar, I'm filled with "evil venom and hatred."
Well, that's just silly.
And according to her (him) I "deserve to die from cancer that attacks all my bones and organs."
Wow! And she didn't even add "Have a nice day." No flower child, this one. All those who support the Islamos are this way deep down. Or, sometimes, not so deep down! At least now we all can see how very peaceful "Antiwar" really is. I knew if I just kept trying, I could bring out her (his) true character. (I think it was my supposition regarding Antibrainwar's personal involvement with an Islamic "special someone"--probably some Pakistani acid-thrower.)
Antiwar--whatever your real name is:
Your demonic curses and witchcraft against me, and any other person you attack here in like manner, are declared NULL and VOID + In the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. + By the Sign of the likeness of His Cross.
(Note: You attempt to send actual evil my way. Okay. That's your free choice. You get to decide which team you're gonna be playing for. But just so you know--I don't want that you should die of cancer or any other horrific malady. I would like, instead, that you be set free and come to the full knowledge of the Truth. That you would be filled with real peace and real love--perfect gifts coming down from the Father of Lights. I would like that you would turn around and begin living for the One Who truly loves you, despite all. That you would live according to a heartfelt, surrendered commitment to God Himself, through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who will judge the living and the dead upon His return, Who is the Author of your life and mine, and to Whom you will be required to give an account, along with the rest of us, when you do die--as we all must.
Secondly, to clarify something that may be troubling you: When I say that "all Islamo psuedo-men need to die" as I have in other posts, I am speaking as, perhaps, a soldier might, especially in the context of war specifically. As human beings we can and must--as terrible a responsibility as it is--bring the sword against the kind of evil exemplified and carried out by the adherents of the kinds of nihilistic political social structures instituted and promoted by murdering oppressors--in this case Islamic oppressors, who have declared war on the West, and on decency and honor and freedom. So please don't feel like I'm threatening you per se. It's a necessary and right perspective for those of us who refuse the lie of liberal relativism.)
Now that we're square on all that: What was that you were you saying about those cute little kindergarten kids?
When times are tough, always go to the son of the North Korea apologist for support.
Next, "Anti"war, you ought to read Rene Guenon, another fascist convert to Islam. There sure seemed to be a lot of those on the postwar European right, and I'm sure you'd feel right at home there.
#63
I have been coming to Rantburg for months now, and recently began commenting. I find it highly educational and informative site, one of my favorites on the web.
What I'm leading up to here is a request to Fred that he do whatever it takes to ban the tiresome antiwar. She has been fouling threads here for far too long, wasting bandwidth with immature kneejerk responses. She adds nothing to to the conversation, and detracts MUCH.
#64
Ex-lib You are indeed an Agent of Satan. May you swallow your pride and ask for God's forgiveness. If you do not you risk permanent annihilation and will not share in the Earthly Paradise He has planned for the righteous
What the hell does Foxnews have to do with anything? Or is this the latest "tactic" of the brainless to avoid evidence they don't like?
Funny thing is, Foxnews wasn't around in 1990 and 1991, and I doubt I'm the only person who remembers "give sanctions a chance" being the rallying cry of the peacenuts.
So she's (?) reading a pro-fascist apologist's screed to support her fantasies? What a surprise.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 15:07 Comments ||
Top||
#67
ex-lib: Antiwar speaks just like an Isamofacist!
Antiwar: If you do not you risk permanent annihilation and will not share in the Earthly Paradise He has planned for the righteous
Set and match to ex-lib.
Well played, ex-lib, well played!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 15:09 Comments ||
Top||
#68
Did you guys notice that Antitwit,in all her Bovine Scatology,blames it all on those evil"Zionist"and yet still has not condemed the assholes who were throwing rocks at school full of babbies.
Get a clue bitch these people are"Evil Incarnate".
All she reads is National Socialist/Islamofascist stuff, though it's obvious she's only semiliterate. al-Khalifah (=Caliphate), Scheer...obviously Chomsky (another person who can't tell us why al-Husseini spent the war in Berlin--so he doesn't even mention it in his work, and then there's the holocaust-denial book for which he wrote an introduction).
#72
I read rather a lot I actually own 834 fiction books and 986 nonfiction books
Yes, well, as we both know Jew-haters are VERY prolific writers. But don't despair, they mostly say the same thing over and over and over again, as is apparent from yuor own writing.
Besides, do you really need ANOTHER new edition of Protocols of the Elders of Zion? The five or six you've already internalized are surely enough.
#74
"I actually own 834 fiction books and 986 nonfiction books"
Know the exact number, do ya?
Anybody got a copy of DSM-IV handy? There's got to be a diagnosis in there, somewhere.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/26/2004 15:31 Comments ||
Top||
#75
Fred: I'm not sure who or what Antiwar is, but this is the second time that she has spread the "Khazar" libel here. For those who don't know what the Khazar libel is, it is the contention that the European Jews are not Semitic. This libel contends that all European Jews are descendents of the Khazars, a Medieval Turkish tribe that converted to Judaism. This libel is consistently used by anti-semites in the US to defame the Jews and has been picked up by the Pals and the Islamists to deny the Jewish right to live in Israel. I personally consider it to be second only to the "blood" libel in its scurrilousnees and seriousness.
Antiwar has established her credentials as an antisemite. I respectfully ask that she be banned. Rantburg should not tolerate this sort of behavior.
Well, if it wasn't for the "occupation"(tm) of the Kindergarten, then there wouldn't be a problem.
Not to mention that according to Hamas, these little kids will one day grow up to be soldiers. Therefore, they are legitamate targets.
Posted by: Daniel King ||
04/26/2004 15:33 Comments ||
Top||
#77
11A5S--
She also likes the "I'm not antisemitic, I like Arabs" one too. Betcha you never heard THAT one before. Of course she wouldn't know who Wilhelm Marr is, though I'm sure she'd like him, too.
An "Agent of Satan"? You honor me too much. They said the same of Jesus, the Crucified One, the Lord of Glory, Whom I (try to) serve. If I have offended you, you best take it up with Him. (And He's calling the shots on eternity, last I heard--not you. )
Now, regarding your new name change: No. No. No. No! I know I've been telling you that you should choose another name--been reminding you to do that for weeks now--but you CAN'T choose that name. Me--ex-lib--I'm the Antiwar confronter! See, I confront you. You just nanner and nanner dumb stuff. Besides, as a name, "Antiwar-Confronter" (tum-ta-da-dum!) sounds like some kind of wacky comic book name. I mean really, it does. Just doesn't have the same ring in English as it must have in your head (via translation from your native language).
To my fellow (sane) Ranters: Many thanks to ALL of you, (especially to mucky my favorite ducky). I so much ( ! ) appreciated everyone's kind support regarding the weird Antiwar attack postings. (Nothing like a "front row seat" . . . and I thought they were all such nice people . . . ) No doubt this will make Antiwar's day--but my mom died of cancer just a few months ago, and I am also (genetically) at high risk and am presently trying to ward off a possible onset (which reminds me--I should probably stop sitting here and go and take a walk)--so Antiwar's bizzare little escapade hit a bit of a raw nerve . . . for about half a second, I think it was.
Here's my take on today, for whatever it's worth: First: "Yawn" --to the vitriol spewed by the enemies of freedom. Second: I think Antiwar-Confronter is probably a "pal" of Antiwar. I bet they're working together at the same computer, bouncing back and forth. The old posts from Antiwar don't sound like these--different structuring, peculiar word choices and ordering, etc. "Antiwar Confronter" sounds like an infantile Islamic terrorist type who is perhaps trying to protect the original Antiwar or stand in for Antiwar--don't know for sure, but it's something like that. Anyway, writing is kind of like fingerprints--it's unique to the person--and this is all very suspicious . . . and disgusting to boot. I think B said it best: "Once again enlightening the American and European population that we are dealing with barbarians from centuries gone by. Thanks for the reminder guys."
Yeah. Thanks Antiwar-Confronter! You, along with the kindergarten attackers, did us a big favor today by showing your true colors and strengthening our resolve to fight against all you stand for in every way possible. And you will lose. Promise.
(start music) "It's gonna be a bright, bright, sunshiny day . . ."
#81
No, not silly, but rather telling about the mindset of liberals. The debate (?) about whether it was appropriate to have a Jerusalem Kindergarten Targeted in Rock Attack, got sidetracked by an interesting bit of self-disclosure on the part of one of the contributors. âAntiwar,â RBâs self-appointed judge of what is right about the islamofascists (and wrong about the West), digressed from her usual liberal humanistic rubbish and personally wished ill (see #13 above) on a contributor who challenged Antiwarâs preconceptions. The rest, as they say, is history . . .
Getting?! Any discussion with Antiwar's like a nip into a House of Mirrors. Argument doesn't get much stupider than a session with the moron-in-chief.
ex-lib - I don't think there's more than one Antiwar out there. Firstly, I don't see why her posting language can't have changed with time (and experience!). Secondly, the quality of her posts remains at a level which would be hard to duplicate. Thirdly, do you really think she has friends? Fourthly, a reference to a precise number books is something of an Antiwar trait. A revealing peculairity.
If you mean the Jew-hating types, yes, she has plenty of friends.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/26/2004 17:56 Comments ||
Top||
#84
If you mean the Jew-hating types, yes, she has plenty of friends.
Yeah, but one of 'em's going to prison!
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/26/2004 18:01 Comments ||
Top||
#85
Bulldog: I agree with your house of mirrors statement, but what is signifcant about today is that Antiwar revealed her true agenda--instead of the usual "oh, the poor downtrodden, misuderstood, oppressed (by the U.S.) hurt ones that we should all be caring about . . . " stuff. See, that's her usual style. (Wow. Did she miss a page, today or what?!)
Now--things will never be the same for her again here. As an "operative," hoping to change (some) people's minds through reiteration of her message of "caring, " she's finished.
Besides that, I still think she had help today. They should have stuck with their original format. People at least afforded her some credibility as a genuinely misled non-thinking liberal. Of course, I always knew she wasn't, 'cause I used to be a "genuinely misled non-thinking liberal."
Actually, today's outburst wasn't the first from our "Auntie"; she's indulged in a couple of them over the past few months. But to those who only saw today's performance, I imagine it was an eye-opener.
For what it's worth, I no longer view extreme leftism as a political phenomenon. To me, it appears more as a mental health issue: there is something deeply, profoundly defective about these people (and, to be fair, whatever counterparts they may have at the opposite political extreme).
I sometimes wonder whether these people, back in childhood, may have been potty-trained with cattle prods.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/26/2004 18:42 Comments ||
Top||
#87
BMN I read rather a lot I actually own 834 fiction books and 986 nonfiction books.
This is one of many times that antiwar proudly tells us about her reading ability. It's jmho..but I think she is retarded. No really, I do. Why else do we get this..."I've got to read 6 books today" type crap.
"She's" a retard..and an anti-semetic one at that.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 19:03 Comments ||
Top||
#88
Christopher Scheer
When times are tough, always go to the son of the North Korea apologist for support.
#89
Dave D. It sure was an eye-opener! She's (he's) a real bad guy! How about that. I had no idea, before today, how "Islamic" she is. When I first started on Rantburg, I thought she was just some misguided Aussie lib. Then my suspicions started to mount. Today the cursing, and the claim about her ownership of books (another Islamic style claim of "greatness"), were really amazingly strange. Hey--maybe she's really a mullah in "disguise."
I think you've got something there--about the mental health issue stuff. Or maybe it's moral issues leading to mental health issues. Kind of hard to say which came first. In any case, Western liberalism reminds me a lot of the Arab culture of blame. Sick and immoral.
At least her cover's been blown, her "minaret" toppled--just like in Iraq today, thanks to our Marines!
#91
If "she"'s a mulla in disguise, then what's the over/under on "her" having a hook for at least one hand?
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
04/26/2004 19:42 Comments ||
Top||
#92
Saying one is "pro-Jews" but "against Zionists" is about as strange as saying that one "supports the troops" but is "against America" or "hates Bush."
It's all schizophrenic, crazy bullshit and lies to boot.
Antiwar is a Leftist Useful Idiot.
What's interesting is that hook hand or no, her siding--and that of the entire Loony Left--with Islamist terrorism is virtually indistinguishable from the cant of the killers themselves.
I think that Antiwar=Rachel "Pancake" Corrie type.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/26/2004 19:48 Comments ||
Top||
#93
As I said not one word of condemnation on these assholes throwing rocks at babbies.What's up with that Anti.Do you hate all babbies or just Jew babbies?
#94
Raptor, check this out, s/he did respond to that point: #18 . . . It is very sad those little children at the Kindergarten have to live in and be indoctrinated in such an Entity. In other words, it was a good thing (in Antiwar's mind) for these kids to get terrorized. Some newfangled kind of education for toddlers, I guess.
#95
dave D...I missed your comment when I posted mine. It's enlightening no? Too bad we don't have a resident psychologist to give us a better clue. I think it's dain bramage....but...she's too evil to be just retarded.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 20:52 Comments ||
Top||
#96
"The Nazi-Zionist collaboration is true I did not make it up."
That's the most disgusting thing I've read in quite some time. Shame on you.
I don't suppose it matters what someone of your persuasion thinks, but you're all wet on Depleted Uranium, too. This is from Stephen Den Beste:
I know that in some kinds of equipment, depleted uranium is incorporated as a radiation shield around critical components. I know that if the inside of my home was lined with DU foil, then my exposure to radiation would decrease because it would reduce my exposure to cosmic rays without contributing any significant radiation of its own.
I know that many of the reports claiming a huge increase in birth defects in Iraq after 1991 were lies, propaganda spread by Saddam or his agents or supporters. I also know that there was no such reported increase in Kuwait, even though that's where we expended most of the DU ammunition we used in 1991. Not much of it was used in Iraqi territory because that isn't where most of the combat took place.
I know that epidemiologically speaking, there's no significant geographic correlation between places where increases in birth defects have been confirmed in Iraq and places where we used DU in 1991. I also know that scientifically there's no way that DU can actually cause those kinds of birth defects, even if ingested in huge quantities. (Please note that the World Health Organization says so: "No reproductive or developmental effects have been reported in humans.")
Of course facts don't matter to someone convinced that Jews are peculiarly responsible for the world's evils, including apparently in your opinion the Holocaust. Shame on you.
"Anti"war believes in antisemitic conspiracy stories and she links jihadi websites and quotes every talking point from her white lefty Jew-hating middle-class associates, but she's just an "anti-Zionist." Surely you understand that.
#101
Unlike you, Anti, I support the War on Islamist Terror whevever it raises its ugly head: Iraq, Afghanistan under the Taliban, and the "Palestinian" areas with the Intifada!
America was attacked by IslamoNazis on 9/11 and 3,000 of our civilian citizens were killed in an hour and a half.
Now, we're taking this war --THAT WE DIDN'T START--back to the terrorists!
And if you're really Aussie (which we all doubt), they killed 200 people, including 80 Aussies, in Bali that were simply there to enjoy their holiday.
Operation Iraqi Freedom is not a "war on Semites."
It's part of the War on IslamoFascism, many of whom are Arabs.
And Zionist Israel, which exists because Jews want it to, is one of our biggest allies!
And given the level of Anti-Semitism in Europe during and after WWII and given the level RIGHT NOW, why shouldn't Jews want a land of their own?
Yes, it was given to them, God's Chosen People, thousands of years ago.
But they fought for it far and square--against the Arabs--and won it in 1947, in 1967 and in 1973 and they fight for it today, everyday in the Intifada, where the Arabs are trying to kill off the Jewish people one bomb at a time.
Go suck on an Israeli bulldozer if you "think differently," you terrorist apologist!
Posted by: Jen ||
04/26/2004 23:06 Comments ||
Top||
#102
War is never the solution Jen. Btw if you know so much about "God's chosen people" you will know of course that they are forbidden to form a State by Torah decree. Many Jews do NOT support the Zionist Entity and indeed protested at the white house whe Sharon visited. If you don't believe me go to Neturei Karta(www.nkusa.org) and see for yourself. People like you do Jews no favours indeed you add to their tribulations.
#103
"War is never the solution"
Yes, the best solution is to die quietly and honorably and hope they run out of bullets... and rocks... and big sticks.
Antiwar--I love how you wish cancer on people who disgree with you and save your vitriol for people who toss their gum on the sidewalks. The world would be a better place today with you in charge--Saddam and his sons would still be running rape gangs, torture chambers, and prisons for children while people who toss their gum on the sidewalks would be shot. Yes, truly it would be Shangri La if GWB had his priorities in order!
Posted by: Dar ||
04/26/2004 23:40 Comments ||
Top||
#104
I wonder if indeed Fred has caught himself a live one here.
#108
Ex-lib you indeed deserve to die slowly maybe from a cancer that attacks all your bones and organs you are so filled with evil venom and hatred you probably will.
#109
BMN you are so stupid I do not know where to start wherever did you get the idea that being against Zionism was the same as against Judaism? I and many Jews(yes thats right)are against the evil that has been in THE HOLY LAND , the heinous evil of Zionism that desecrates the land of Abraham(born in Iraq)Moses and Jesus Christ.It is very sad those little children at the Kindergarten have to live in and be indoctrinated in such an Entity.
#2
This is a "Newsweek" article. Might as well believe Pravda. Fact is that convoys can't be escorted with tracked vehicles - we'd wear out our entire inventory in a short period of time. What would we do if we need to fight a real war?
#3
We did not use tracked armor to escort convoys in Vietnam either - today's Bradleys and 70-ton MBT's would tear up Iraqi roads even worse than Vietnam-era tanks.
#5
Well, I think of what has been going on in Israel and occupied territories for the past 30 years. Lots of fighting - but when was the last time you heard about Israeli soldiers being killed in an unarmored military vehicle? It just doesn't happen. I'll bet the Russians and the Germans (combined) in the Battle of Stalingrad didn't lose many troops getting whacked in unarmored tactical vehicles. Why is that? Because fighting in cities isn't done from admin vehicles - because its goddamn sucide to offer up that king of target.
I'm not swallowing up Newsweek as gospel - I've been thinking this same thought for three months, just watching the dozens of smoldering Humvees burning, day after day. Newsweek finally just adopted it as an issue.
Protecting yourself in war isn't easy. If I recall, a Roman Legion on the march made it absolute policy - the advance halted in mid-afternnon each day, so the legion could build a vertibale fortress every single day - I think it had to be a walled enclosure about half a meter thick, and shoulder high. Every single day. 'Hell of a lot or work - but no one every caught a Roman cohort sleeping the the open.
In my light infantry days, if you had to move along an unsecured route in an unarmored vehicle, then it was in a five ton truck. You ASSUMED that you were going to hit a mine, or attact heavy machine gun fire - at least. You lined the bed of the troop compartment with about two layers of sandbags, and build a sandbag wall around the troop compartment - ALWAYS. You had riflemen posted in all four directions, ready to unload IMMEDIATELY if you entered an ambush kill zone.
I don't know - it seems to me that when a theater commander loses his 150th Humvee crew to an IED or RPG, then its time to chane tactics. Stop riding, and start walking. It used to be "travelling formation" behind the lines, "travelling overwatch" as you approachd the LD, and "bounding overwatch" as you cross the LD. You encountered the enemy with the smallest force possible - as in one fire team.
Now it looks like everyone just hops a Humvee "taxi" and rides to the firefight, and gets out after the first RPG or IED convincingly wastes the Humvee in front of you.
Staying alive in urban fighting is hard work - and a lot of it is still spade and shovel work. Not exactly "joystick" warfare.
Hell, I even remember the drill in clearing a rowhouse street in "Indian Country" - you didn't go "house to house" via the street. That was the way to get shot by the bad guys. You went from house to house by going THROUGH the walls - you blasted your way down the street, wall by wall, using breaching charges. You were always working INSIDE the buildings. It was slow work, and it took a lot of breeching charges. But the enemy got the friggin' message. After the contents of about the third house in the row came blasting out the windows as you blasted through the wall into the next house, they got the message that an unstoppable juggernaut was closing in on them, and they weren't gonna get a chance to shoot at anybody at a distance - they were going to have to take a close-in blast (goodbye eardrums) and then try to fight through bleeding eyes and noses. I remember part of the drill after you breeched each house was to to toss a regular smoke grenade into any house you didn't intend to occupy - the smoke would displace air, and no one could breathe in that "cancelled" space.
This dancing around the edges, "plinking" jihadis, and racing around in thin-skinned vehicles - this isn't serious urban fighting. Its "Hollywood." 'Time to get back to basics.
Concerning the flag-draped coffin issue. As far as I'm concerned, they should make it a rule that every congressman - Representatives and Senators - should be detailed to PERSONALLY unload the caskets once every 90 days - and dig the graves - all with news cameras rolling. They should all then be trucked down to Bethesda to donate a pint of blood for the wounded. There will then be no more doubt about whether they appreciate the human cost of the war.
#7
Lots of fighting - but when was the last time you heard about Israeli soldiers being killed in an unarmored military vehicle?
The Gaza Strip and the West Bank combined are about 1,400 square miles, parts of which are occupied by about 100,000 settlers equipped and trained to fight their own battles. Iraq's land area is 168,000 square miles, or over 100 times larger than the West Bank and Gaza. The disparity in size is why American troops are taking more casualties - enemy infiltration from foreign lands due to long land borders, easier enemy resupply because of those extensive borders, difficulties with patrolling road links hundreds of miles long.
The appropriate comparison is with Vietnam, not the West Bank and Gaza strip. The US is not taking as many casualties as in Vietnam because it has better aerial surveillance, it's not fighting in triple canopy jungle, and it's got better fire control systems that enable it to hit the enemy where he is as soon as he is spotted. Equally importantly, it's fighting Arabs, not Vietnamese, which has two benefits - Arabs surrender rather than fight to the end, and fewer Arabs (than Vietnamese) are willing to risk their lives to fight Americans. Arabs are basically cowardly blowhards - I can't remember the Vietnamese doing this amount of posturing for so little fight.
Note also that we've only been in Iraq for a year, which means that those billions of dollars of hiddens weapons caches stockpiled by Saddam are still in commission. When Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967, those territories are unlikely to have had billions of dollars of ordnance hidden away - neither Jordan nor Egypt either had the money or the inclination to provide a multi-billion dollar armory for the Palestinians. Whatever caches existed would have been easy to discover, given the small size of both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
#8
The appropriate comparison is with Vietnam, not the West Bank and Gaza strip
Though you make some interesting points...that's a big stretch, if you ask me. Comparing the WOT with Vietnam is about as relevant as comparing the WII to Vietnam - both are about 30 years apart.
IMHO it's more appropriate to compare WWII to the WOT than it is to compare Vietnam.
Posted by: B ||
04/26/2004 10:36 Comments ||
Top||
#9
Shinseki's Stryker was supposed to fill the gap between the hummer and the Bradley. It ought to be put into action so we find out whether it works in the environment it was intended to address..
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
04/26/2004 10:37 Comments ||
Top||
#10
The stryker's are deployed and apparently are doing a pretty good job. They have this interesting bird cage installed around them that appears pretty successful at stopping RPG's.
On another note, any thoughts on building unmanned tanks for urban combat. I am thinking of a tank chassis with at least two 20mm rotating turrents. Add this birdcage style armor around the thing and make the whole thing remote control. It seems to me a large caliber machine gun is a much better urban weapon that the 120mm tank guns on our abrams. Just a thought. I am guessing we have a bunch of m60 tanks just sitting around.
Posted by: Patrick ||
04/26/2004 11:18 Comments ||
Top||
#11
B: IMHO it's more appropriate to compare WWII to the WOT than it is to compare Vietnam.
Actually, the War on Terror is a lot like the Cold War, and Iraq is similar to Vietnam in that way. Just as Vietnam was merely a skirmish in the Cold War, Iraq is merely a campaign in the War on Terror. (Unlike in WWII, the US is not engaged in a large-scale battles in multiple theaters across the globe - all of them are merely skirmishes that involve a paltry number of troops and resources - certainly not the 12 million we had under arms and the and 50% of industrial output we incurred throughout WWII). Just as the US fought small wars across the globe during the Cold War, it is dealing with recalcitrant regimes one at a time in the War on Terror. The difference between Vietnam and Iraq is that the US's limitations during this campaign are more self-imposed than anything else. Unlike in Vietnam, there is no China or Soviet Union threatening intervention (although North Korea's an entirely different story).
The article says they are in Kurdish areas. How can we evaluate their effectiveness where they aren't being shot at? They should be in Baghdad or Fallujah.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
04/26/2004 12:33 Comments ||
Top||
#13
Just being in the north does not mean they are not getting shot at. Here is an article at strategypage on a stryker that recently got destroyed.
Posted by: Patrick ||
04/26/2004 13:34 Comments ||
Top||
#15
Hmm, apparently Strategy pages search links are temporary. Basically go to www.strategypage.com, click on search, and type in STRYKER.
- Patrick
Posted by: Patrick ||
04/26/2004 13:35 Comments ||
Top||
#16
I'm wondering if we might not lay on some serious armour on the General Lee class and send 'em into battle. It's their natural home. Cheap gas, bad guys and a lousy script.
In offering amnesty this weekend to five wanted tribesmen in this lawless region on the Afghan border, the Pakistan military hopes to isolate "foreign terrorists" by cutting off their local support and dismantling their safe haven. The agreement holds out the prospect of ending a protracted confrontation between the Army and the pro-Al Qaeda commanders' local force of more than 2,000 fighters, who have been accused of assisting foreign terrorists in South Waziristan. But some observers urge caution, saying any future operations against foreign fighters - Arabs, Chechens, and Uzbeks - will test the accord's strength. "There is always suspicion because the relationship between the local mujahideen and foreign mujahideen is ideological," says Ghulam Rabbani Mehsus, chairman of Tehrik-e-Mafad-e-Qabail, or the movement for safeguarding tribal interests. "Both share the same goal of waging jihad against America and sacrificing their lives in the name of Allah. So it will be difficult for them to part ways."
The agreement was announced in a colorful traditional jirga, or tribal gathering, in this mountainous town and was attended by thousands of turbaned and bearded tribesmen and elders, who danced to the beat of drums as hundreds of mujahideen armed with rockets, automatic weapons, and machine guns surfaced after months of hiding. Military commanders hugged the wanted men after they pledged loyalty to Pakistan and its Army. The men were given tributes by elders and clerics. "We are brothers. Whenever there are bad times, Pakistani forces will find us with them," says Naik Mohammad, the most wanted man. "We will fulfill the conditions of the agreement."
The show of friendship between the military and tribesmen followed several months of military tensions in this tribal belt, where officials believe about 600 "foreign terrorists" are still in hiding. A top commander of the Frontier province, Lt. Gen. Safdar Hussain, praised the tribesmen and announced a development project worth 91 million rupees for the region. He also announced the release of 50 tribesmen, arrested during the recent operation. "We are brothers. If you cooperate with us, then we can cleanse the area from foreign extremists and make it possible," he said. Tribal sources say most of the foreigners have left the towns and villages and are in hiding in the mountains of Shawal, Khamrang, and Shikai, which have unlimited escape routes. The tribal sources say Shawal, the highest mountain peak in Waziristan, is likely to be the concentration of the future military action. "Shawal is a difficult mountainous terrain from which to launch an operation," says a tribal elder. "[These foreigners] are well equipped and can fight for weeks."
The level of resistance offered by the Men of Al Qaeda and their fighters during a major operation last month, loss of life on both sides, and countrywide protests by opposition and religious fundamentalist political parties for fighting "their own people" without consulting tribal elders may have compelled the Pakistani military to change tactics. They moved to find a solution with the help of tribal elders and influential clerics, and held out the threat of confiscating properties and businesses. Pakistani forces hope the agreement will allow them to launch more successful military actions against foreign terrorists. "The local Al Qaeda men have always served as shield to foreign mujahideen," says tribesman Dilawar Khan. "If the military is able to withdraw this shield then to counter Al Qaeda will be much easier. "
"By pardoning local mujahideen and threatening foreign mujahideen, the strategy is to isolate foreign terrorists. It is an attempt to break the backbone of Al Qaeda leaders and their fighters," says an educated tribal elder, Haji Ajam Khan Tojikhel. "Local mujahideen and Arabs, Chechens, and Uzbeks have lived like a big one family here, but now the government wants to create dents among the family."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/26/2004 12:07:12 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
