Four armed suspects and a Saudi police officer have been killed in a shootout the Saudi city of Buraida, the interior ministry has said. "Security forces uncovered a group of wanted men who belong to the deviant group (militants) in the Khodeira area of Buraida," the ministry statement, read on Saudi television said, adding one militant and two policemen were also wounded in the exchange of gunfire.
Wonder how many got away?
The authorities normally use the phrase "deviant group" to refer to followers of Saudi-born al-Qaida leader Usama bin Ladin, blamed for a string of bomb attacks in Saudi Arabia and the September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.
I normally use the phrase "deviant group" when refering to Saudi
Buraida, a town north of Riyadh, is viewed as the heartland of radical Islamists linked to bin Laden bent on bringing down the US-allied monarchy.
So Buraida is the heartland of the homeland
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 1:36:20 PM ||
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"The authorities normally use the phrase "deviant group"
Yesterday in the Arab News they used "abnormal state" to describe a man who was drunk. These saudis are unbelievable!
Saudi Arabia's highest religious authority issued a "fatwa" or religious edict Thursday banning Muslims from watching Qatar-based al-Jazeera TV. The edict issued by Sheik Saleh al-Fawzan, a member of the kingdom's committee of ulemas, described the Arab satellite channel as "Zionist television," which hosts "so-called reformists who have a podium for airing their poisonous ideas."
al-Jazeera, the mouthpiece of al-Qeada, is "Zionist TV". Who knew?
I'm not really a lover of al-Jizzplatter, but where in the Koran does it say you can't watch it? Or is it in one of the hadiths?
"There is no need to set up satellite dishes to watch the news on al-Jazeera ... Saudis can have access to all the news and information through Saudi newspapers, radio and television," the edict said.
Saudi News Network - "We Report, You Believe, Or Else".
It cautioned Muslims against "introducing evil to their homes and destroying them by watching al-Jazeera, which is a provocative and evil channel hosting people who interpret religion as they please. "Watching al-Jazeera is an evil in itself," it added.
Well, OK.
The popular satellite TV channel hosts Saudi opposition figures and activists calling for political and social reforms in the Muslim conservative kingdom.
I think I'd call this a dumb reaction to a tiresome problem. If it wasn't Soddy Arabia we were talking about, I'd point out that the solution to al-Jizzles isn't to ban watching it, but to give alternatives to it, be it I Love Lucy reruns, All Bollywood All the Time, or wrestling.
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 10:00:28 AM ||
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Mmmm... that'll go down well. One of few channels regularly showing the kafirs⢠'getting some.' Revolution in Saudi in 5... 4... 3...
Posted by: The 13th Duke of Wybourne ||
05/20/2004 10:19 Comments ||
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don't they ever get tried of the whole "Zionist" thing?
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
05/20/2004 10:29 Comments ||
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Watching al-Jazeera is an evil in itself . . .
Finally, a fatwa we can all agree with!
Posted by: Mike ||
05/20/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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lol! The suprise meter does work!
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 10:31 Comments ||
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Yet again, the seventh century shoots itself in the foot. Not a good idea.
. . . evil channel hosting people who interpret religion as they please. That, I'd suspect, is the key, right there. In its current state, Islam is inherently self-destructive; it tends to do this kind of thing, restricting freedom of interpretation in the name of "righteousness." I may not be a big fan of Al-Jizz, but at least it is an alternative to the Wahhabi crap. The "smarter" of two idiots, you might say, though to borrow an old phrase, being intelligent in the Middle East is like getting the gold medal in the Special Olympics: you may win but you're still retarded. In any case, I doubt this is going to go over very well.
Though if Islam is going to reform itself, I think it'll have to be done from the bottom, from Muslims who care more about the truth as they see it than what their damned mullahs say and sheiks say. But to do that, they first need to care more about others, and to think for themselves, which Islam tends to prevent. Not good.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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by watching al-Jazeera, which is a provocative and evil channel
#10
They've got to be, cancelling Angel like they did.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
05/20/2004 11:18 Comments ||
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The suprise meter does work!
Not mine. The Saudis will assume any contortionist posture necessary to preserve their tenuous grip on power. These latest theological gymnastics are merely the predictable outcome of the Saudis realizing that any freedoms they have granted in their moral cesspool of a country have served the ends of Wahabbist fanatics better than their own selves or that of the disaffected population.
The House of Saud is on a collision course with reality and all the harems, racehorses and solid gold bathroom faucets in the world aren't going to prevent it. What the Saudis refuse to recognize, in congenital traditional Arab fashion, is that they have struggled valiantly to breed up this monster for several decades and now must pay the piper. Much like some too well known refugees over in Gaza.
WHILE actor Hugh Jackman has been vanquishing vampires in his latest blockbuster movie, his little sister has been hunting real-life terrorists in Iraq. Fighting evil ... while Hugh Jackman battles vampires in Transylvania, his sister is fighting in Iraq. The Van Helsing star's sister has just completed a tour of duty as a corporal in military intelligence. Sydney-born Jackman said he was terrified for her safety because she was deployed to some of Iraq's most dangerous areas. "My youngest sister has been fighting in the Gulf," Jackman said. "She's in intelligence but I can't tell you any more than that. She couldn't tell me where she was but she was in a regiment which got reported on quite a bit in the press. I've read she was just outside Baghdad. She's 11 years younger than me and she's officially my half sister, but I count her as my sister. She went into the army at 22 and graduated after basic training as the top recruit. She also won another award as the best sniper."
Alleged al-Qaeda conspirator Jack Roche, on trial for plotting to blow up a truck outside the Israeli embassy, told a journalist he had shared a meal with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in 2000 and found him a "very nice man". The comment was made during a taped interview with journalist Colleen Egan, recorded in 2002 and played to a jury in the Perth District Court yesterday. On the recording, Roche told Egan, then working for The Australian newspaper, that he had recognised bin Laden from the television. "I nodded, he nodded," he said on the tape. He described bin Laden as a "very nice man", whom he had met for only a very short time. He said he would much prefer to meet the al-Qaeda leader than US President George Bush.
Roche also spoke about meeting Hambali, the alleged mastermind of the Bali bombings and senior al-Qaeda commanders, including Muhammad Atef, also known as Abu Hafs al-Masri. On the tape, seized from Egan by the Australian Federal Police, Roche revealed the meeting with bin Laden took place in Kandahar, Afghanistan, in March 2000. The tape reveals that Roche went to Karachi with a note from Hambali. When he arrived, he was told to take another note to "the sheikh" in Afghanistan, and was shocked to discover that the sheikh was bin Laden. He gave bin Laden the note, which was in Arabic and they then sat down for a meal. He also talked with Abu Hafs. Roche told Egan that Abu Hafs believed it was now better to recruit Westerners rather than send operatives of Middle Eastern appearance to the West. In other evidence yesterday, the court heard that ignitors found at Roche's Perth home were designed for use in high-powered rocket engines that could only be used under licence from Western Australia's department of mines.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 11:10:07 AM ||
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Yes, and new evidence suggests that the trains ran on time under Stalin, that Hitler was nice to dogs, that Saddam was generous to his servants, and that Pol Pot hosted excellent dinner parties.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 14:02 Comments ||
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In other evidence yesterday, the court heard that ignitors found at Roche's Perth home were designed for use in high-powered rocket engines that could only be used under licence from Western Australia's department of mines.
Things are "upside-down" Down Under! Only there would a department responsible for stuff "under" the Earth also have responsibility for exploration of stuff "above" the Earth!
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
05/20/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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Jack Roche? Lionel Dumont? Richie Cahoon?
It's gotta be the religion shoes.
A terrorist of Iraqi origin, who surrendered to security forces in Yuksekova town of eastern province of Hakkari, has claimed that four other terrorists had entered Turkey to carry out sabotage acts. Hakkari Governor Erdogan Gurbuz said that the terrorist surrendered to Turkish security forces on May 18. He noted that security forces acting on information given by the terrorist, had taken tight measures in city center and towns.
Hummm, just walked in and gave himself up?
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 9:44:21 AM ||
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Maybe he was scared of going to Abu Ghraib.
When I saw this, all I could think of was Peter Graves' line in Airplane: "Bobby, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"
Posted by: Tibor ||
05/20/2004 12:08 Comments ||
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Mmm, it could be PKK. Can't tell from the context.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
05/20/2004 12:15 Comments ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
05/20/2004 08:49 ||
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An international prosecutor cleared four Jordanian police officers of involvement in a Kosovo prison shootout that killed three American corrections officers and the assailant, a U.N. official said Wednesday. The prosecutor concluded that "there are no reasonable suspicions that any of the four Jordanian officers has committed any offense," said Neeraj Singh, a U.N. spokesman.
As they do not find it offensive that they killed Jew-loving Americans and a UN guy.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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Yeah, looks like a multiple suicide to me too, mister international prosecutor. Them infidels are crazy you know.
I wonât post the article, but Khalid B.âs name has appeared in Rantburg before; heâs a real shady character (as well as a member of the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group). I bet the Moroccan truncheon work would be quite impressive, but for now Iâll settle for him staying in a secure Dutch prison. Hopefully in solitary so he doesnât infect the general prison population. By the way, he "misses his family".
Posted by: Seafarious ||
05/20/2004 1:03:24 AM ||
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ANYONE FOR JOINING THE BUSH-BLEW-IT CLUB?
America's finest troops - some being National Guard members in their prime of life - are being forced to patrol in areas where koranimals are placing Road Side Bombs with total complicity of the local savages. America's finest troops were pulled from the Fallujah front, as they were prepared to overrun al-Qaeda elements. Now, Bush-Powell-Bremer are deferring to some sham ersatz-democratic process, with a scenario where Iran will effective control Iraq, and be in a position of butchering 13 million minority persons. Please don't surrender to the Robert Crawford' I-want-to-be-part-of-something-big-even-as-a-kiss-ass mentality. Fallujah-Najaf mythologies are already being reinforced in Shiite-Sunni/al-Qaeda circles in Iraq. Unless extreme pressure is put on the "faith based" idiocy in Washington, America will be held hostage to Islamofascists. American taxpayers did not shell out $150,000,000,000 for that bill-of-goods.
The majority here is making Juan Cole look good. Don't be patsies.
http://www.juancole.com/
The results confirm that radical young Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is holed up in Najaf as his militiamen fight the Americans, has emerged as among the more popular politicians in Iraq, already suggested by a poll done in late March and reported in the Washington Post.
"Respondents saw Mr Sadr as the second most influential figure in Iraq, next only to Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the country's most senior Shia cleric. Some 32 per cent of respondents said they strongly supported Mr Sadr and another 36 per cent said they somewhat supported him. Ibrahim Jaafari, the head of the Shia Islamist Daawa party and a member of the governing council, came next on the list."
Nearly 90 percent of Iraqis surveyed saw the US troops as occupiers, not liberators. This is up from 20 percent in October of 2003 and 47 percent in January, 2004. Not a good curve for the US. Over half want US troops out now. A USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll done in late March had found that 56 percent of Iraqis wanted the US troops to depart immediately.
This poll was done before the Abu Ghuraib prison torture scandal broke, so I suspect the negative numbers for the US have increased.
The Dutch public prosecutor asked an appeals court in The Hague on Wednesday to impose jail terms of up to six years on five suspected Islamic terrorists accused of planning a bomb attack on the US embassy in Paris. Two of the suspects â identified as 29-year-old Jerome Courtailler and an Algerian identified as Abdelghani Rabia â are facing the six year jail term. Three other suspects are accused of playing lesser, supporting roles and face lower prison terms.
Rotterdam Court acquitted all five defendants in December 2002 because the prosecution arrested them and conducted house raids based solely on information from the Dutch secret service AIVD, known back then as the BVD. But the court said the prosecution acted unlawfully because the secret serviceâs evidence could not be used in court for state security reasons. The court also said there was insufficient evidence to convict the suspects. A second "terrorist trial" also ended in acquittals in June 2003 because the AIVD evidence could not be used in court.
The controversial ruling forced Justice Minister Piet-Hein Donner to admit that the Dutch fight against terror had been placed under pressure. He indicated that he would investigate legislative change to allow AIVD evidence to be used in court. The Cabinet thus resolved on 29 April to expand the options of using AIVD evidence in court, allowing prosecutors the contents of official reports to be explained before an examining judge.
The legislative bill will enable judges to hear testimony from AIVD agents when he or she wants to investigate the origin of certain information. AIVD staff may remain anonymous if necessary. The proposal has been lodged with the Council of State for consideration, after which it will be submitted to the Lower House of Parliament, the Tweede Kamer. The Parliament must first pass the bill before it can become law. The Madrid bombing seems to have gotten the attention of the Dutch. Letâs hope they can get these convictions and make them stick.
Posted by: Seafarious ||
05/20/2004 12:54:38 AM ||
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I spent 3 years travelling from London to Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht, et.al. on a regular basis. Both pre and post 911. Used the rail system mostly. The one thing that strikes you is the amount of "diversity" in the Netherlands - Mollucans, Javanese, Guyanian, and of course a very sizable Muslim population. My feeling is that since the rail network is so widely used as both a commuter system and inter-city transport, it is very vulnerable to a Madrid type attack. Don't be surprised if Holland is next!
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
05/20/2004 8:51 Comments ||
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Turkey received a tip-off from the CIA over an alleged Al Qaeda plan to attack the June 28-29 NATO summit in Istanbul, to be attended by US President George W Bush, ahead of the arrest of suspected militants this month, the Milliyet newspaper reported on Wednesday. The CIA reportedly told Turkish authorities that the Al Qaeda network was planning a âlarge-scaleâ attack during the summit and that explosives were dispatched to Istanbul from northern Iraq, Milliyet said, without citing a source. A police spokesman contacted by AFP declined to comment. The tip-off was received prior to April 30 when Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan held a security meeting with senior officials, Milliyet said. Shortly afterwards, Turkish police rounded up 25 people in Istanbul and nearby Bursa, thought to belong to the northern Iraq-based radical group Ansar al-Islam, an alleged ally of Al Qaeda, on suspision that they were plotting a bomb attack on the NATO summit.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 12:16:13 AM ||
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A Spanish judge accused three Algerians of belonging to Al Qaeda and forming part of a network that recruited Islamists across Europe to go fight the US-led occupation of Iraq, court records said yesterday. High Court Judge Baltasar Garzon said the mobilising of insurgents was directed by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, whose group has claimed responsibility for the beheading of a US hostage and the assassination of the head of the Iraqi Governing Council. The three Algerians, along with a Spaniard accused of collaborating with them, were arrested in various parts of Spain last Friday and jailed on Garzon's orders, pending further investigation. The judge also drew links between the Algerians and the Hamburg cell that plotted the September 11 attacks. Garzon accused one of the Algerians, Samir Mahdjoub, of helping others "distribute money to finance the sending of mujahideen to Iraq, using the infrastructure of Ansar Al Islam in other countries like Italy and Syria."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 12:04:34 AM ||
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Kudos to Judge Garzón. He's got real cojones. I sure hope he's letting somebody else start his car for him every morning and after work...
Posted by: Fred ||
05/20/2004 08:53 ||
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âThe question about blocking the entry of Sheikh Al-Sudais does not arise because he has not applied for a visa so far,â Yves Duval, a spokesman of the embassy told Arab News. Duval was referring to reports carried by local Arabic newspapers that the Islamic scholar was denied a visa by the embassy as a result of pressure from Jewish organizations.
âHow can I speculate on a non-existent visa request? I can only say that Saudis are generally welcome to visit Canada,â the official said when asked whether Al-Sudais would be granted visa if requested.
"We haven't denied his visa, yet. Give us awhile to see which way the political wind is blowing and we'll get back to you."
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 12:01 Comments ||
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Sheikh Al-Sudais :
Does anybody else see the resemblence to Michael Moore?
Though Michael needs to let the chin-stubble grow for a couple of weeks.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Iraqis are ready to "take the training wheels off" and assume political power from the U.S.-led coalition, President Bush said Thursday as his administration began to roll out a rough plan for the June 30 transition of authority. Bush went to Capitol Hill to brief anxious Republican lawmakers, warning of more difficult days in Iraq even after the transfer of sovereignty.
"This has been a rough couple of months for the president, particularly on the issues of Iraq, and I think he was here to remind folks that we do have a policy and this policy is going to be tough," said Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa. "Things, as I think he commented, are very likely to get worse before they get better."
The president's visit was also meant to shore up the confidence of House and Senate Republicans who are getting ready to leave for their home states during the Memorial Day recess. Like Bush, most of the lawmakers face re-election, and many will face constituents jittery about Iraq. They said he defended his record on the economy, education and Medicare, all of which are targets for Democratic attacks.
Six weeks before the political handoff in Iraq, Bush consulted in the Oval Office with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Gen. John Abizaid, commander of American troops in the Middle East, and Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Bush will spell out details of the Iraq handover in a series of speeches, beginning Monday at the Army War College at Carlisle Barracks, Pa.
'bout time. Take it to them, Dubya.
In remarks released by the White House on Thursday, Bush called the handover "a complete passage of sovereignty." He did not mention in the interview with Al Zaman newspaper, conducted Tuesday, that troops from the United States and other countries will be in Iraq indefinitely.
Which everyone except the village Democrat idiot already knows.
Offering a rough outline Thursday, Secretary of State Colin Powell said U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi was getting closer to designating the people who will serve in the new government. Brahimi has been working with Iraqis and with Robert Blackwill, an aide to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, to come up with acceptable names. "We hope that when he (Brahimi) brings forward this slate of officers, we can quickly move that slate to the Security Council, to Secretary-General (Kofi) Annan, for all of us to take a look at and examine the quality of these individuals and then laugh our asses off," Powell said.
But White House spokesman Scott McClellan said simply that Brahimi's candidates would be the people who take the reins of government. "I expect they will be the caretaker government," he said. "The people he puts forward, we believe will be good representatives of an interim caretaker government until such time the Iraqis can hold free, fair and open elections" in January, McClellan said.
Why not hold them now?
On Capitol Hill, Bush said he was "clearing through the muck" of criticism from Democrats who charge he went into Iraq with no strategy and still has none. Both the United States and Iraqis must shoulder the burden of stopping violence and shifting to democracy, he told them. "The United States will lead, or the world will shift into neutral," Bush said. The line drew nods of approval from his listeners.
Several lawmakers said Bush reiterated his determination to stick to a June 30 transfer date. "He talked about 'time to take the training wheels off,'" said Rep. Deborah Pryce, R-Ohio. "The Iraqi people have been in training, and now it's time for them to take the bike and go forward."
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/20/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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United States Democrat John Kerry promised that, if elected president of the United States, he would pull virtually all American combat troops out of Iraq - away from the "death zone" - by the end of his first term. In an interview yesterday with AP reporters and editors, he also criticised President George W Bush for damaging relations with allies. There is so much strain in those relationships now, he said, that only a new president can repair them. "Every president of the last century, Republican and Democrat alike, worked differently from this administration, reached out to other countries and worked with greater respect through international structures," Kerry said. "This has been a terrible period of loss of American influence, respect and prestige, and it costs us all across the globe." The problem is most evident in Iraq, said Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War veteran. He promised to avert a quagmire, saying "it will not take long to do what is necessary" there. "It will not be like Vietnam," Kerry said. "I will get our troops home from Iraq with honour and with the interests of our country properly protected."
Republican Richard M Nixon used similar language during the 1968 presidential race, but the war in Vietnam dragged on for years after his election. Saying his goal would be achieved in his first term, Kerry explained: "Look, you may have some deployments of people for a long period of time in the Middle East depending on what the overall approach to the Middle East is. I'm not going to tell you we won't shift deployments from one place to another, but we're not going to be engaged in an active kind of death zone the way we are today." Kerry also said he is confident that if he becomes president, he could persuade countries that sat out the Iraq war to contribute peacekeepers. But he said he would not place US soldiers in Iraq under UN command, or under the command of another country.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 2:31:47 AM ||
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Who is his national security advisor, Senior Zapatero?
Posted by: Mike ||
05/20/2004 6:07 Comments ||
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Like Zapatero, Senator Turntail Andrun is a cowardly weasel. Unlike Zapatero whose word is his bond, Senator Lyingsackof Excrement is a serial liar. Nothing Senator Flip Flopper states as his policy can be believed. Most likely, Senator Americanhating Bigot would immediately appoint Kofi Annan the Commander in Chief of the US MILITARY, sit back and applaud as the US MILITARY is aligned with the Islamo-fascists and titter with delight as the US MILITARY is ordered by Kofi to do battle with the Zionists.
#3
Did he mention he is a decorated war hero? Now he really is playing to the "Get out now" crowd. He will abandon the Iraqi people to the wolfs.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
05/20/2004 7:19 Comments ||
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There's your warning, Iraq. Get it together with Bush or get the UN. Life in Iraq went well under those oil for food deals, didn't it? Look how well things turned out in Bosnia.
NPR/CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/BBC/NYT/WP/LAT etc.etc. spend every moment of every day feeding the US population the idea that things in Iraq are a quagmire. And since most people don't get their news from rantburg, most people just accept it as truth.
AQ will assist with a well planned attack, as in Spain and Kerry has a good chance of getting elected over the dead bodies of Americans, and he knows it. It just might work too.
#5
"NPR/CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/BBC/NYT/WP/LAT etc.etc. spend every moment of every day feeding the US population the idea that things in Iraq are a quagmire"
You are exactly right. That is why it is so important that everyone of us, who get the true news from weblogs like rantburg or Littlegreenfootballs, spread the word of their existance. I do it by e-mailing my friends articles and links and asking them to forward them to whomever they know.
#6
Ya know, I worried about the authenticity of this story for a minute. Why? Because in skimming it, I didn't see a certain tell-tale word.
Then I re-read it more carefully, and found it in paragraphs five and six.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
05/20/2004 8:28 Comments ||
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This statement is evidence of a dangerous level of incompetence. In war, you never announce your intentions like this, especially an intention to quit with or without victory. The "death zone" reference seems to be promising that we will engage in no further offensive operations against other countries, something which no sane person could honestly say, since he has no idea where this war might lead. The fatal pacifism-at-any-price of the Democratic Party is once again revealed.
#8
John F'ing Kerry, will get us all either killed or enslaved to the UN. If he gets elected, maybe the South will Rise Again and secede (sp?)? I can hope.
#9
Kerry and his socialist supporters are humanitarians.
Humanitarians are better than us because they are not actively seeking to hurt someone else in military combat even though some are trying to hurt us.
That means that even if it means even far crueler and far bloodier American deaths along the way, well, at least they are better than the rest if us because their judgement isn't clouded with such terms as duty ( to defend the USA against terrorism ) and honor ( the only way the US military has ever acquitted itself in combat ).
#10
I don't know folks, were there either way for a long time methinks. Too many overiding interests. Kerry's a douche but the congress should still be Republican held (unless my math is off). *If* he gets in he'll still have to do a lot of selling of his ideas, many of which will get killed off I hope. I think ensuring the Iraqis have a stable infrastructure and developments of some sort of pseudo democracy will happen no matter whose in the WH - because any idiot can see it's in the best interest of the world. I'm pulling for GWB as are most of my Marine brethren (though I cannot officially express any partisanship while in a professional capacity). No matter what I think personally about a lot of W's policies the guy stays the course and I think he has more compassion for the ordinary joe then Kerry ever could.
OTOH, & to be blunt - if the majority of people in our great country have gotten so damn stupid/apathetic/or ignorant as to elect a political opportunist such as Kerry then the country deserves what it gets. The rest of us will just have to do what we can to be the best Patriots we can be during that time.
#11
Now what is the logical conclusion a member of AQ can gather from a statement like Kerry's?
1) I have at least 35-40% of the US e;ectorate that will defend my actions and call for a US pull out of Iraq no matter what I do.
2) The more I do the quicker that time line will shorten.
3) 90-95% of the US media will devote all its energies to convincing a miniscule 10% of the undecided electorate to thinking likewise.
So, given that, over the next five months till the election what do think is a fair percentage of resultant US deaths can be placed at the feet of JFKerry for such an irresponsible message?
Ladies and Gentlemen we need to reach that 10% first.
#12
#4 What does Kerry plan with other troop deployments like in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc. Didn't Clinton promise in 1998(?) that the U.S. troops would be home by Christmas? How many are still there?
Dear Terrorists: If you kill more and more U.S. Servicemen and murder more U.S. Citizens on TV I will become president and will then surrender to you and your dhimmi Kofi.
--- (apparently) John Kerry, Traitor to Vietnam Vets and Presidential Canidate.
P.S. Be sure to be as graphic as possible with those murders. The media loves it. And dont worry -- my buddies in the media will make sure Bush is blamed for it.
#14
This was yesterday, and what else was Kerry doing yesterday? Why meeting with Ralph Nader:
The Nader campaign issued a statement afterward saying the meeting was designed "to put the focus on the human race not the presidential horse race" and both men agreed to "continue the dialogue." An added concern for Kerry is Nader's anti-war sentiment which has struck a chord among some voters, especially in closely contested states.
Although Iraq has emerged as a major issue between the two campaigns -- Nader has called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops and Kerry, like President Bush, wants to stay the course -- the aide said the two men did not discuss their differences during the hour-long meeting. But Kerry, who campaigned in Oregon on Tuesday, enlisted the help of former rival Howard Dean, whose own maverick bid for the Democratic presidential nomination was built around his vehement opposition to the Iraq war.
Both men have warned that Nader could draw votes from the Democratic candidate.
Kerry meets with Nader, swings back to the anti-war left position.
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 9:29 Comments ||
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Jarhead makes some good points. Even if Bush is reelected, I'm hoping that we're able to substantially reduce the troop count by 2008 as well. However, there's a real danger here. The left is in full throttle to elect "anybody but Bush". This is sounds like the kind of attitude that got Hitler into the Chancellory. This is compounded by the fact that we no longer have a free and independant press anymore. The dominant media in country CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/BBC/NYT/WP/LAT are now merely a functioning organ of the DNC. My fear is that in the near future we will be looking at something far worse than the prospect of a Kerry administration. Then, it will absolutely matter who is in the WH. The democrat-media complex has to effectively countered. Right now, the blogoshere is the only thing available. Is that enough?
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
05/20/2004 10:46 Comments ||
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#16
This has been a terrible period of loss of American influence, respect and prestige, and it costs us all across the globe."
How about the loss of prestige in the "international community"? How many examples can we come up with there?
Sudan-genocide
Rwanda-genocide
Oil-For-Food-starvation and sanctioned corrpution at the UN and our "allies" governments
The list goes on and on. Let's keep putting it out there--are we supposed to emulate these "sophisticated, nuanced" idiots in the international community?
#17
It's actually a smooth move if you don't care if AQ will kill Americans in a move to help you get elected.
Personally, I think it will backfire if AQ attacks America. But what's Kerry got to lose?
Never the less, it worked in Spain, and Kerry is willing to try it here.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 11:01 Comments ||
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#18
This morning I was disheartened by this because I thought AQ might be successful with an attack. Because the media aspect of this war has been a 100% total failure, I thought...ya know this will probably work.
But it occurs to me that AQ, while understanding Euroweenies, doesn't get America...and this will backfire and result in a landslide for Bush.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 11:11 Comments ||
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#19
Every day, in every way, John Kerry takes the time to remind me that he is, indeed, a complete asshat.
I would vote for Bill Clinton before I would vote for Kerry, and that's saying something.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
05/20/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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#20
I don't think there is a more evil man than John F'himself Kerry. He's the worst of the bad, and his slick rhetoric is Hitlerean. He is a male version of Hillary. With the information networks and sources sown up for the DNC, people can be fooled. That's what Kerry and the rest of the bad guys count on. In order for Kerry to "feel like a man" he must win the Presidency. It's not about the people, it's about him. It's not about service, it's about him. It's not about the war, the peace, the needs of America, it's about him and his need to prove he's important. I bet he's a diagnosable as having a borderline personality disorder, IMO. He's married to a narcissist, and the two disorders are often found paired together like that.
#21
Here's Kerry: "Look, you may have some deployments of people for a long period of time in the Middle East depending on what the overall approach to the Middle East is. I'm not going to tell you we won't shift deployments from one place to another, but we're not going to be engaged in an active kind of death zone the way we are today."
"Death zone?" WTF is he talking about? Was Lower Mahattan a death zone at 8:40 a.m. on September 11th? No, but it was a few minutes later. Anywhere there are Americans in the Middle East, there is a potential death zone. At least under Bush the death zone of Iraq is populated by armed US forces and not many American civilians. This guy is just a pathetic loser.
Posted by: Tibor ||
05/20/2004 12:22 Comments ||
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#23
Theatrics. This is the word that John Kerry brings to mind. Theatrics. To state that he will bring home our troops "with honor and the interests of our country", is simply a statement of election interests. It's a stupid statement. Our troops--and our nation--are at war. This is a war that will last some time. Sacrifices will be made. Must be made. Troops, if not in Iraq, will then be deployed elsewhere. Such is war. Kerry, should he be elected, will inherit this war. His statement undermines the gravity of this war. While I do not apologize for Bushs' errors (he has made some), I do applaud his resilience and perserverence towards taking the fight to the enemy. Will Kerry do the same? Or will he withdraw our troops "with honor and the interests of our country", thus putting America on the defensive?
This is not Vietnam. Not even close. This war is not confined to a specific tropical region, nor is it a quagmire. This war is global. There is no option to "withdraw".
I served in the armed forces. And I talk to the warriors who fight this battle. There are some some exceptions, but the vast majority know they're in it for the long haul.
#24
OTOH, & to be blunt - if the majority of people in our great country have gotten so damn stupid/apathetic/or ignorant as to elect a political opportunist such as Kerry then the country deserves what it gets.
I am convinced that Kerry will shoot himself in the foot while it is firmly planted in his mouth before the election and probably after the convention. He will have his Dukakis moment either during the debate - "Senator, if someone was too drunk and decided to take a breeze at your wife...." - or riding around in a Hummer like he was Arnie. Also, me thinks Iraq gets less attention after end of June just as oil prices top out, interest rates start to rise and the economy takes center stage. Some time in October if Bush is still down in the polls Binny will pop up at Gitmo being interviewed by Mike Wallace and complaining about the quality of goat we serve.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
05/20/2004 15:06 Comments ||
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#25
Kerry needs to have an accident. Too bad Ski Season is over, then maybe he could have run into a tree or something.
I'm just sayin`...
-AR
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
05/20/2004 15:13 Comments ||
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#26
I'm praying this moron doesn't get elected. He does, and we might as well just all go to the local Borders and pick up copies of the Qu'ran, because it'll only be a matter of time.
It would seem to me that this is another instance of something that . . . Cingold, I think it was? . . . brought up the other day. You can't just be anti-something; you have to stand for something else. Is Kerry doing this because he wants to be anti-Bush, or does he honestly think it's a good idea? I'd like to hear his plan for dismantling the greatest threat humanity has ever faced if he thinks Bush's is so lousy. I'm not saying we haven't made mistakes, but we can't afford to give up on this one, and we simply cannot afford to elect someone who will.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 15:57 Comments ||
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#27
"...he also criticised President George W Bush for damaging relations with allies."
Has Kerry ever said specifically which of our allies Bush has supposedly alienated? Or why he considers them "allies" absent their cooperation in the WoT? Or just exactly what help we're missing? I have to assume he means Germany and France, but I've never heard him actually say it; and I've never heard anyone in the news media press him on the point.
I've been voting since 1972, and in all that time I've never seen the Democrats (my party for 31 years, until last year) field a presidential candidate who's as much of a roaring asshole as John Kerry. I really fear for our childrens' futures if this dickhead gets elected.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/20/2004 16:19 Comments ||
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#28
I'm not so worried.
When last the FEC checked their shorts and found no balls, rich Republicans (is that redundant? ;-)) have been raising money hand over fist for their own 527 organizations.
Just wait for all the various flip-flopping commercials (vote for war/vote to fund troops, strategic oil reserve, "family" SUV, etc.) to come out.
There's a wealth of material to run on Kerry.
Posted by: Daniel King ||
05/20/2004 16:32 Comments ||
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#29
Kerry needs to have an accident. Too bad Ski Season is over, then maybe he could have run into a tree or something.
Funny you should mention that, AR. Well, in a twisted way...
#30
If Mr. Kerry does get elected I think we will have a repeat of the Carter Administration only worse. Carter got elected because he was running against Ford, not because of any of his policy statements. After the election he didn't even have the support of his own party which is why his was such a bad presidency. Kerry's only platform right now is "I'm not Bush" and I think the people that vote form will not be willing to support him which leaves the strongest Democrats to be Hitlery Clinton and Senator Ted "Bogagas" Kennedy. God help us.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
05/20/2004 17:18 Comments ||
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#31
Kerry is so vacuous as to be unbelievable. Who could someone like this pick for a VP, Nancy Pelosi, Robert Byrd, Teddy Kennedy? It is hard to imagine that respect for the US could be lower than it was under Clinton, but I think were we blighted by a Kerry administration, we could ply new depths.
#32
Raj: Funny you should mention that, AR. Well, in a twisted way...
Actually, the Kennedy incident, and the Bono, (as in Sonny)incident were at the forefront of my mind (such that it is) when I was fantasizing about Kerry eating some bark.
Twisted? Me? HaHa, if you only knew!
-AR
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
05/20/2004 19:38 Comments ||
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The Commander in Chief can order the withdrawal of any and all troops any time the mood strikes him. Period. Full Stop. That's what being the CinC and head of the Executive Branch of Gov't means. There will be institutional foot-dragging, of course, for any insane order - but it will eventually happen, even if considered insane by most.
Who is elected President, CinC, matters more than anything else in Nov - by an incredibly wide margin.
Perhaps he'll decide to remove all troops by the end of his first year, instead of term. Who's to stop him? Think about it.
#35
.com> true enough, he could pull us by 2006. However, being the political opportunist he is who knows what he'll do given the reading on his political pitot - thus he is fittingly skerry. OTOH - I'm inclined to believe he'll want other ajendas met back home, to push these he will need Republican help, many Republicans won't want a quick pull outta Iraq so he may have to play ball until the end of his first term. Plus, look at the language - "end of his first term" - could be 2008? Seems to me we may have Iraq in decent shape by then anyhow so his promise would be meaningless. Hell, we may have them in pretty good shape in the next 18 months, wish I had the crystal ball bro'. (I'm trying to mentally adapt and overcome early and see the silver lining if this chump gets in - Lord forbid. ) My $.02 anyhow.
#36
JH - Maybe you're right. I recall that the #2 Donk Candidate screeched that he'd bring them home immediately. If he had controlled himself just a tiny bit more and been just the least bit less insane...
Iraq is only one aspect, however. The execution of the WoT will suffer across the board - and eventually regular people, you, me, your daughter, son will suffer because of it. It will prolly allow for another major hit on America just in the confusion and mixed messages of transition and endlessly nuanced half-assed multiculti stupidity, IMHO.
Economically, politically, in every way that matters, it would hurt.
I think of it as Zapatero redux - with all of the ramifications implicit.
#37
I think he's looking for a re-enactment of the last chopper from Saigon...something in a "Last Blackhawk from Kirkuk" mode to complete the bio circle
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 22:46 Comments ||
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#38
.com> I agree w/you - the rest of the WOT is another matter. Iraq is definitely only one quotient. A skerry admin prolly has no nuts for the necessary yet politically un-popular dirty work it will take to deal w/Iran/Syria/Norks/Soddy et al.
#39
Or a sitcom, Chopper 7, about a ex VN vet who flies rescue missions over DC. Bomber jacket, check! Campaign patch, check! It's a go and lift off. Que music!
Extending your analogy a little bit: with Kerry it would likelier be "The Last Blackhawk DOWN in Kirkuk".
I see a Kerry administration being just as muddled and fainthearted on foreign policy as the Clinton administration. The first bad turn would cause him to panic and run screaming for the exits.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
05/20/2004 23:02 Comments ||
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... Frederic Whitehurst, testifying for the defense, said an FBI forensic scientist he trained himself, Steven Burmeister, also lied when he testified that the crystals came from the kind of fertilizer believed to have been used in the bombing. .... Whitehurstâs testimony focused on a shredded piece of plywood recovered two days after the bombing that authorities believe came from the cargo container of the Ryder truck that delivered the bomb. The debris, found in a parking lot across the street from the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, is the only direct evidence of the explosive used. Whitehurst said he saw the crystals through a microscope after Burmeister discovered them, but that it was impossible to say whether the crystals were embedded or sprinkled on the debris as a result of contamination. ... Nicholsâ lawyers are grasping at straws. McVeigh rented the truck that blew up in front of the building. McVeigh and Nichols together bought large quantities of fertilizer. This line of defense is futile.
Nichols ought to testify in his own defense. He really has nothing to lose, and he could at least present his own justifications for his actions.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 6:23:40 PM ||
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A city judge and mother of three from Conrad [Montana] used the Internet to help authorities nab a National Guardsman accused of trying to aid Al-Qaida. Judge Shannen Rossmiller, 33, is a key witness in the case against Spc. Ryan G. Anderson, a Fort Lewis-based National Guardsman and Muslim convert. Anderson, 26, faces five counts of trying to provide the terrorist network with information about U.S. troop strength and tactics as well as methods for killing American soldiers.
Rossmiller told the court Wednesday that she is a member of 7-Seas Global Intelligence, an organization that tracks terrorist activity and forwards leads to authorities. She often surfs the Web late into the night at her home in Conrad, a town of 2,750 an hour north of Great Falls, searching for clues of terrorist activity. Last year Rossmillerâs work led her to a posting from Anderson, who was using the name "Amir Abdul Rashid." Rossmiller baited "Rashid" by posting a call to jihad against the United States and he replied. ... Rossmiller had been corresponding with Anderson since October. He was arrested in February after he allegedly tried to pass information to undercover Army investigators.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 12:31:49 AM ||
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#3
KUDOS to this lady! If I were in the States, I would be doing the same thing. I always tell my husband, the battle against these animals is going to be won by ordinary american citizens. Those people who do not need some "intellectual" or a book to tell the them right from wrong. Hopefully, they will soon turn their attention to the american-muslim community (it should be easy to do since they always segregate themselves from the rest of the population). The greatest danger to America is the muslim fifth column already in place. And before anybody says they are not all terrorists, I would say: a terrorist is not just the one who detonate a bomb but also the one who turns a blind eye, tries to justify, or secretely celebrate the act.
#4
A-ha! I just knew the 93rd Volunteer Infantry had an electronic warfare detachment!
Posted by: Mike ||
05/20/2004 6:32 Comments ||
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#5
In case anyone's interested, here's the link to the 7 Seas homepage.
Posted by: Mike ||
05/20/2004 6:34 Comments ||
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#6
The lady is great, but it is not smart to publicize her organization or where they are based.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/20/2004 8:02 Comments ||
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#7
Jihadbusters!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 10:42 Comments ||
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#8
AP: Folks in Conrad know how to take care of themselves. I don't think they are too worried about the jihadis knowing where they live. Plus in that part of Montana you can see them coming from a long ways.
#10
I can only hope that more people look at the Anderson case as a whole and what it represents regarding the extent that those who subscribe to extremist ideologies will go to in an effort to achieve their goals when developing any opinion about the case. Anderson is charged with capital and life offenses under the UCMJ for a reason. He wanted to kill his fellow soilders and he wanted to be a part of Al Qaeda. Its quite astonishing to think how/why someone would do or desire such things.
Hugh Hewitt has this link on his site today and I thought most of you would be intrested in this article. Along with the links.
Iraq never declared any binary 155mm artillery shells. In fact, they never claimed any filled with sarin at all in the UNSCOM Final report (Find on "Munitions declared by Iraq as remaining"). Not declared as existing at the end of the Gulf War, not having been destroyed in the Gulf War, not having been destroyed unilaterally. The only binary munitions claimed by the Iraqis were aerial bombs and missile warheads. Not in an artillery shell.
Iraqi CW agents were not comparable in quality to those stored in the arsenals of the USA and the former USSR, however. Impurities meant that the toxic compounds lacked stability and easily decomposed; as a consequence, Iraq developed a crude type of binary munition, whereby the final mixing of the two precursors to the agent was done inside the munition just before delivery. This had a major impact on the logistics of and preparations for chemical warfare, which may partly explain how overwhelming coalition air superiority prevented the use of CW during Operation Desert Storm.
Posted by: Long Hair Republican ||
05/20/2004 11:36:54 PM ||
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#1
Of course, if we had real news media in this country, this would be news. So, can I expect this factoid to appear on CNN...MSNBC...any of the networks? ....didn't think so.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
05/20/2004 15:21 Comments ||
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A ranking leader of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), who was also an alleged supporter of the Abu Sayyaf terror group, and a cohort were captured at a military checkpoint in Barangay Talon-Talon here on Wednesday, the authorities said Thursday. Maj. Gen. Trifonio Salazar, commander of the Army's 1st Infantry Division, identified the suspects as Usman Lidjal, purported head of the MILF's 3rd Base Brigade who had a 450,000-peso price on his head, and Alimuddin Adala, alias Uttuh. Other reports said another accomplice was able to escape.
Armed Forces of the Philippines Public Information Office chief Lt. Col. Daniel Lucero said Lidjal was believed to have provided safe haven and support in the form of guns, ammunition and food to Abu Sayyaf guerrillas who had kidnapped 17 Filipinos and three Americans from the Dos Palmas resort in Palawan in May 2001. Lidjal was also believed to have helped wounded Abu Sayyaf members at the height of the Lamitan, Basilan, siege of June 2001 where the bandit group, dragging the Dos Palmas hostages with them, was surrounded by Filipino soldiers but managed to escape. Salazar said Lidjal "maintains regular contact with the Abu Sayyaf group, especially with Kadaffy Janjalani," its leader.
Salazar said Lidjal was also tagged as the mastermind of the June 2000 kidnapping in Zamboanga City of two Belgian nationals and a British citizen. The three were reportedly released after ransom was paid. Reports from Camp Emilio in Malagutay, Zamboanga City, said Lidjal had a standing warrant of arrest for three counts of murder issued by Basilan Regional Trial Court Presiding Judge Danilo Bucoy in 2000. He was also facing another case of kidnapping and serious illegal detention in a warrant issued by Zamboanga Regional Trial Court Judge Tibang Asaali in 1998.
Lidjal and Adala were reportedly spotted on Don Lorenzo Street in this city by an informant who contacted operatives of Task Force Zamboanga and the intelligence unit of the 1st Infantry Division (Tabak). Lidjal and Adala were arrested as they tried to sneak past a military checkpoint in Barangay Talon-Talon on board a passenger jeepney bound for Barangay Arena Blanco, Zamboanga City. The two suspects were turned over to the proper authorities for the filing of the appropriate charges against them.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 2:33:25 PM ||
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An Indonesian maid has told a harrowing story of how she was repeatedly burnt with an iron and scalded with boiling water by her Malaysian employerâs wife. Nirmala Bonat, 19, told reporters she had been abused on a daily basis for the last five months. Malaysian newspapers carried front-page photos of her horrific bruises and scars, in what police claim is the countryâs worst case of maid abuse. She has now been given shelter at the Indonesian embassy in Kuala Lumpur. Her alleged abuser has been arrested and could face a long jail term.
Nirmala Bonatâs plight was exposed after a guard at one of Kuala Lumpurâs wealthy condominiums saw her crying, and spotted the horrific bruises on her face. The guard immediately called police, who were shocked to find that the maidâs whole body - including her breasts and back - were severely burnt, The Star newspaper reported. Nirmala Bonat said the abuse began when she accidentally broke a mug about five months ago. "She [the employerâs wife] then threw boiling water on me," the maid told reporters. "One day she got upset while I was ironing. She said the clothes had not been properly ironed and slapped me. She took the iron out of my hand and pressed it against my breasts. "When I go back, what am I going to tell my parents when they see all the scars?" the maid said. Nirmala Bonat said she came to Malaysia last September, hoping to help support her parents, who are Indonesian farmers. More than 200,000 foreigners are believed to work in Malaysian homes. The country is the second largest destination for Indonesian maids after Saudi Arabia. Many middle class Malaysian families rely on domestic staff, who are typically paid less than $100 a month. EMPHASIS ADDED Kind of makes you wonder whatâs happening to all the "maids" in Saudi Arabia. If you remain unsure of why misogynistic Islamic culture must be compelled to reform, just go to the article and examine this womanâs photo.
#1
I can tell you what is happening with the maids here, in Saudi Arabia. Besides being paid slave wages, they are physically (beatings and rapes) and mentally abused. The Sri Lankan and Philippines Consulates here have special rooms for run away maids. What does that tell you? For anybody who has ever lived in the Middle East and has witnessed how minorities are abused here, America self-flagellation for the "abuse" of the prisoners in Iraq is imcomprehensible and laughable.
#2
Anonymous3964: For anybody who has ever lived in the Middle East and has witnessed how minorities are abused here, America self-flagellation for the "abuse" of the prisoners in Iraq is imcomprehensible and laughable.
Especially when you consider that the prisoners humiliated had been armed terorists, whereas the abused women were just doing household chores for a living.
#3
Authoritarian societies (and yes, I consider tribal societies to be authoritarian) always save their loudest accusations for precisely those things they are the most guilty of.
Thus if they accuse us of humiliating prisoners, they are systematically torturing them. We treat our women like whores? They rape and abuse their servants. If we are accused of exposing our children to pornography, then pederasty is out of control over there.
#4
Remember the Saudi "princess" who threw her Phillipine maid down the stairs in Miami a year or so ago? She didn't see anything wrong with it. She was arrested, but left the country. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think she came back for a trial.
Riyadh delenda est!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/20/2004 18:13 Comments ||
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#5
Anon3964, I've heard a lot about the Saudi abuse of their foreign workers. Often times the worker is 'stuck' in virtual slavery since 1) they are in debt to their recruiter for their recruitment and airfair and 2) they have little, if any, rights. They sometimes cannot even speak more than a smattering of the language. Often they do not even have access to their passport.
It is not uncommon for a Filipina to be raped repeatably by her employer or his sons (or both) and simply have to endure it because she has no rights and cannot afford to go back home.
I am assuming that this woman (from Indoneasia) is Muslim. The Filipino's have it worse since they are not even muslim.
#6
I have to laugh every time I see the Arabs condemning us for "human rights violations," and how those annoying groups yell at us instead of looking at what they should be. They quite simply do not have the right to condemn others for what they themselves are guilty of, not until they realize how screwed up their own affairs are. If they try to work on them, fine, then they can say something. Not until.
And, hey, Anon3694, are you Saudi? Get yourself a proper name and start posting! We could use an insider!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 20:59 Comments ||
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#7
Everything said here is spot-on. What you see for yourself (I once recounted discovering a Fillipino nurse who had been imprisoned in one of the apartments in the bldg I lived in back in '92) is corroborated by everyone who has been there long enough. The only thing that ever amazes me about these stories now is when a Saudi is forced to face the music - a rare event, indeed, and prolly only indicative of a Saudi without connections getting uppity.
I echo The Doctor's comment, A3964, plz stick around and contribute!
#8
Nirmala Bonat's abuser has turned out to be Chinese. Her name is Yim Pek Ha. It just goes to show that one needs to do their homework before making blind accusations.
Gunmen killed four people in Thailand's Muslim south in the worst day of violence since troops of the Buddhist-dominated government shot more than 100 suspected Islamic militants last month, officials said. In one of the attacks Wednesday, a man on the back of a motorcycle sprayed automatic gunfire at a group of Buddhist villagers chatting under a roadside pavilion in Narathiwat province, killing three and injuring two others, police Lt.-Col. Kachane Kojaparayuk said. Police found 10 shell casings and a note that read: "Do you feel pain when innocent people get killed, like you did to us?" near the scene of the shooting, apparently left by the attackers, Kachane said.
Another brave warrior of the ROP, shooting up unarmed villagers.
In a separate shooting, a local government employee in Pattani province was fatally shot by a man who was also riding on the back of a motorcycle, police Lieut. Wasan Saensuk said. Shootings by gunmen driving by on motorcycles have become an almost daily occurrence in southern Thailand in the last four months, leaving about 100 people dead, mostly policemen, government officials and teachers.
The violence has been blamed on Islamic separatists seeking to carve out a homeland in the southern provinces Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala, the only Muslim-majority areas in the predominantly Buddhist kingdom.
You want a homeland? We'll give you one, in hell.
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 9:47:18 AM ||
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#1
I'd suggest piano wire at 5' high across all trails. This really dims my sympathy below the "nonexistent" level for the oppressed Thai muslims
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 10:46 Comments ||
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#2
The violence has been blamed on Islamic separatists seeking to carve out a homeland in the southern provinces
Seeking to return us to the 7th Century with their lust for world dominance. Just as they are in the UK and elsewhere - including the well adjusted ones - complicit by silence. Motherfunkers. The Thais should shootup another mosque.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
05/20/2004 11:09 Comments ||
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#3
Shootup? HowardUK. Nooo nooo nooo. More intriguing would be this new particle beam weapon. We help the Thais use that on a radical mosque. Sort of a "Microwave a Mullah" scenario.
I hope they work this out, wonder if corrupt Singaporean officials get a cut of the booty for allowing this to go on?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 9:48 Comments ||
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#2
Singapore has what are probably the least corrupt civil servant in the world. The regularly come in at number one in international comparisons.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 10:03 Comments ||
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#3
It's the Malays and Indons, Muslims all, who are the pirates. Too bad so many of our naval vessels have little or no gun capacity. Much harder to lob Harpoons at a dhow.
#4
Phil B: Singapore has what are probably the least corrupt civil servant in the world.
Singapore's civil servants and politicians are among the highest-paid in the world. Singapore's Prime Minister earned a salary of $1.1m in 2002, compared to GWB's $400K. The salaries are still below that of private sector employees, but not too far off. The offset is that Singapore's civil service has no public sector union, no equivalent of the AFSCME - meaning that job security, while better than the private sector, isn't ironclad.
#5
Singapore's civil service has no public sector union Not true! Go here for one civil service union. Otherwise what is your point?
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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#6
Increased coordination could be for the following:
1)The smarter and more ambitious have figured out there's money to be made in piracy and moved in.
2) There are reports that members of the Indonesian navy are freelancing. I've not heard reports of any Malaysian sailors doing so.
3) There are other groups in Asia besides Muslims that have an interest in disrupting traffic in the Straits and are capable of providing support to the pirates.
Sinagpore's officials are indeed among the least corrupt. Their defense forces are perhaps the best in the region. But there's only so much they can do against piracy. They're essentially surrounded by larger,less well-off but still armed neighbors, and they know it.
#7
Phil B: Singapore's civil service has no public sector union Not true! Go here for one civil service union. Otherwise what is your point?
I wasn't aware one actually existed - thanks for the clarification. But the AFSCME can't possibly be compared to a Singapore civil service union - when was the last time a Singapore private sector union, let alone a civil service union, staged a strike? The point here was to highlight the possibility that high civil service pay may correlate with lower levels of corruption.
#8
ZF, Unions in SG are politically aligned. Perhaps the critical thing that Lee KY did do defeat the communists was to subvert their control of the unions. Politically aligned labor unions are quite common. France has a similar system, where you have separate left and right aligned unions covering the same groups of workers. Because the same political party has been in power for 50 years in SG, unions not aligned with the ruling party have withered away, but there are still a few left.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 20:11 Comments ||
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Government troops have arrested an alleged Abu Sayyaf leader linked to the abduction of three American tourists in the southern Philippines, the military said on Thursday. Usman Lijal and a bodyguard were detained in a raid of his hideout at a Muslim community on the outskirts of this southern city late Wednesday, said Major General Trifonio Salazar, head of the Armyâs First Infantry Division. The raiders also seized weapons from the house, where at least one other suspect escaped, the general told reporters. âWe finally got him,â Salazar said. âItâs the result of a long surveillance operation that started on (the nearby island of) Basilan. Civilian informants provided us with vital information,â he added.
Lijal is a suspect in the May 2001 kidnapping of a group of Filipino and western tourists at an island resort off the western island of Palawan, said military spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Lucero. Lucero told AFP Lijalâs group supported the kidnappers in Basilan, providing them with guns, ammunition and food. The US government later blacklisted the Abu Sayyaf as a âforeign terrorist organization,â dispatched a small unit of special forces to help train Filipino soldiers on Basilan, and offered bounties for its top leaders. The rebel group was drummed out of its stronghold and a number of its top leaders were later arrested or killed elsewhere. Lucero said there are also standing arrest warrants against Lijal for the abduction of two Belgian tourists and a British girl near Zamboanga in the 1990s. All three were later ransomed off.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 12:08:10 AM ||
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#1
Put the pink panties on his head and find out what he knows!!
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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With summer fast approaching, Iranâs internal security forces are gearing up to crackdown on anti-government demonstrations which usually escalate in the months of June and July. There have been many protests in Iranâs major cities already. In March, violent anti-government protests erupted in Fereydoun Kenar, Marivan, Boukan, and Isfahan. And earlier this month, teachers in Tehran and elsewhere staged demonstrations that led to the closure of many schools across the country. Moreover, more than 20,000 people took part in a protest by tea growers in northern Iran last week.
To stem the rising momentum of popular protests, Iranâs theocratic rulers are undertaking pre-emptive measures by deploying the security forces in Tehran and other major cities. Special units of the Revolutionary Guards Corps regularly take position in many of the capitalâs major intersections and streets. Roaming around in groups of four or five, they harass particularly the students and young people, making their presence felt. .....
The number of executions including public hangings has been on the rise in recent weeks. Agence France Presse reported last week that three people were hanged in Tehran and in the northeastern city of Mashhad. Execution, torture and ill-treatment of political dissidents are a main component of Iranâs highly elaborate and institutionalized suppression designed specifically to terrorize and subdue an increasingly restive population. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 12:13:38 AM ||
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NRO has excerpts from "Endgame" by Thomas G. McInerney and Paul E. Vallely.
While the whole serise or articles is worth reading, I think it would be helpful if Rantburgers can turn their collective knowledge and analysis skills toward assessing this quote:
"In Rowan Scarboroughâs book, Rumsfeldâs War, it was revealed that the Israeli defense forces have eighty-two nuclear weapons as part of their nuclear deterrence force. In our research for this book, we discovered that a group of countries, led by Israel and the U.S., had been working since 1981 on a mega-secret project to develop and deploy a weapon system that can neutralize nuclear weapons. The highly advanced, space-deployable, BHB weapon system, code-named XXXBHB-BACAR-1318-I390MSCH, has extraordinary potential and is a key part of the Westâs deterrence strategy. For the past twenty-five years, the project and the scientists involved in it were kept in strict secrecy and their existence denied. The scientists rejected Nobel Physics prize and Nobel Peace prize nominations and have been repeatedly and deliberately the subject of intense military disinformation through the media in order to divert attention from their highly secretive work. In 1981, when CIA director William J. Casey signed onto the SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative) â a missile defense shield against incoming nuclear warheads â he gave the green light for the technologyâs development for deterrence purposes and peaceful use only. Although we have only limited information, it appears that Iranâs rapidly developing nuclear capabilities could be neutralized and rendered obsolete, as could the capabilities of other rogue countries."
Iâve read rumblings on this sort of tech before, but had assumed it was vaporware. Anyone know any details?
Posted by: JAB ||
05/20/2004 10:45:42 AM ||
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#1
One thing about one of the co-authors of "Endgame," Paul Vallely. His son was just killed in Iraq. The author appeared on Fox News. You could sense the intense emotional loss he felt even as he maintained a stoic, laconic pose. I just feel so grateful to all of the troops and their families.
I will buy a copy of the book. It sounds great.
We must be victorious in Iraq. Iraq might not get democracy, but we have got to hold fast and turn over power to a decent government.
Posted by: Bob ||
05/20/2004 11:26 Comments ||
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#2
On topic: A few months ago the Russians claimed to have developed some kind of beam weapon that would neutralize nuclear weapons.
I think between nanotech and all the rest we are probably far ahead of where we say we are right now.
That's a good thing. Iran starts testing ICBM's next year. That's "Intercontintal Ballistic Missiles" for the uninformed. The kind that can hit anywhere in the USA.
I just want Bush to have a plan to deal with the Iranians. We have to nail them at some point.
Posted by: Bob ||
05/20/2004 11:29 Comments ||
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#3
"Neutralizing" nuclear weapons can happen in several ways.
First, and easiest, is to attack their delivery system. This technology has existed ever since the original US ABM system was established in the 1970s. This can happen in several ways: anti-missiles, satellite and airborne lasers, and pre-emption, from attacking lauch sites to sabotaging hardware or software.
Second is to interfere with their guidance and/or arming systems before they become ballistic (free falling.) The purpose is to throw them off course or make their trajectory unstable, causing the missile to destroy itself.
Third would be to interfere with the chain reaction of the nuclear material. Unless the timing klystron in the bomb itself detonates the high explosives precisely, the yield of the bomb is drastically reduced or eliminated. The other way, suggested by the above book, is by bombarding the nuclear material itself with some kind of energy that can also strongly inhibit a chain reaction.
Optimally, you use ALL of the above, and any other tricks you can come up, ALL the time.
#5
..I'm going to make a comment that may start a real argument here, but here goes:
Assuming that this is true - and I hope to God it is - we won't know until a Black Hat or Nork lights the fuse and steps back to watch the fun. We wheel out the Death Star, and a few tons of useless metal digs a hole in a Manhattan street.
Then what?
Do we - justifiably and without any compunction - erase them from the planet? One Trident boat can do that without even using up all its missiles. Or will we sit there and argue over what course of action to take while the rest of the world decides WE'VE gone rogue?
They will, you know. The EU, Russia, and China already know that the only thing that would stop us is a nuclear weapon - but if even that restraint goes out the window, would they decide that maybe it's time to put us down once and for all?
They may not be able to. But I sure as hell think they'll try. Don't misunderstand me - if this thing exists, build as many as we possibly can, even if we bankrupt ourselves. But we had damn well better be ready for what will come next.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
05/20/2004 12:35 Comments ||
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#6
We've still got big programs running at DOE labs and elsewhere. I'd like to think we are doing something more than just maintaining the last generation of nukes and playing around with missile defence and bunker buster bombs.
#9
This technology that I refered to earlier today as "Microwave a Mullah", could be used effectively, and if things got real sour, would be used in Iraq or environs. It would theoretically, as I understand particle beams, not only neutralize atomic weapons, but "disrupt cellular function in organic systems" i.e. "Microwave a Mullah".
#10
Having the "Part Number" formatted to look like an NSN makes me suspect this is just BS.
The actualy stuff is probably some sort of particle beam, one that will create a particle flux that will interfere with fission in the trigger section. And the problem is that it takes a lot of energy to excite a large enough number of particles to those energy levels - so much so that its likely not prtable at all.
#11
I don't know squat about any of this stuff. But I'm reminded of a comment about the SR-71 Blackbird when it was first Declassed. When they declass something like that you'll know there is a replacement that makes that bird obsolete.
And then I'm reminded of the Luftwaffel's(?) high tech birds that were a little to late to decide the battle. The good news, in my mind, is that our opponents in this war are looking at a 30 years war. Their modus is like Carpenter ants.
#12
If you do a google search you'll find that some Japanese scientists proposed a neutrino beam, and yes the generator is huge and beyond current technology. A nuke in a car trunk is detectable, but the car would have to pass by a scanner such as the kind that are already in use in some places.
#14
I'd like to agree with "B" in #7 about electing Kerry. Anyone who cant underrstand the the web of terror and evil dictators would prefer Kerry over the hard charging Bush is missing some marbles. Also, with respect to this BHB particle flux beam system and wether or not we have one....does "HAARP" ring a bell? Google it and find out for your self how far ahead USA has been in this Utterly Classified feild of weapons systems.
#15
Victory? Great recipe. Jihadi scum openly plant Road Side Bombs in front of compliant civilians and they get away with it because non-reaction is supposedly integral to so-called American "values."
Nuke the pig out of Islamania, and then we'll have peace.
RAFAH, Gaza Stripped (AP) - Food and water are running low, there's no milk for the nine babies and toddlers, and the older children are terrified. For Khalil Shagfa's extended family of 55, as for thousands of others in this besieged refugee camp, the Israeli incursion has brought fear and deprivation. Shagfa says Red Thingy Cross supplies have reached a mosque across the street but he can't collect them because of the ammo crates in the wayheavy Israeli fire. "The milk is almost finished, the Pampers are out, we're tearing up old clothes and using them as diapers. And we're out of water, we ran out this morning," said Shagfa, 53, whose relatives are all trapped in their apartments in a Rafah building by the Israeli offensive.
But no, they haven't hit bottom yet.
Israel launched the raid Tuesday, less than a week after Palestinian militants killed 13 soldiers in Gaza. Officials and relief groups warned of a humanitarian crisis unless water and electricity are restored to Tel Sultan, the area of Rafah that has taken the brunt of the incursion. But fears were likely to ease after residents said that Israeli troops and tanks began pulling out of the refugee camp at daybreak Friday after a three-day sweep that left 39 Palestinians dead. Israel military sources merely confirmed the troops were "redeploying."
The International Committee of the Red Thingy Cross said Thursday it was working to get food, water and medical supplies to Tel Sultan's 25,000 occupants. The Tel Aviv-based group Physicians for Human Rights except for Israeli Children said Israeli restrictions on the movement of ambulances were hindering the resupply of Paleo terror units evacuation of the wounded. Residents of neighboring Khan Younis smuggled two trucks with food, blankets and ammo other supplies into Rafah on Thursday, using back roads to get around the army blockade. However, they were unable to distribute the supplies because it was too dangerous to enter the parts of the camp controlled by Israel, organizers of the relief mission said.
Fayez Abu Shammale, one of the volunteers, said the trucks had to sneak through olive groves within 100 yards of Israeli tanks.
Explain to the crowd, Fayez, why the Israelis -- who knew you were there -- let you live. Perhaps they have more restraint than you know?
Residents said the most pressing need was for water - the supply of running water had been cut off, and many rooftop tanks have run dry or been pierced by Israeli bullets. Witnesses said 37-year-old Khalil Assar was killed and two of his relatives were wounded by army fire Thursday as they tried to take out an APC with a rocket launcher fix a bullet-riddled water tank atop an apartment building.
An old cemetery in Rafah was reopened Thursday to bury seven of the dead terrorists; the new cemetery, located in the area of fighting, was out of reach. At Rafah's small hospital and a nearby makeshift morgue, 25 terrorist bodies were awaiting burial. Relatives were unable to arrange for funerals because they live in parts of the camp controlled by Israeli troops and could not leave their homes.
Troops pushed farther into the crowded camp Thursday. Several families said they were forced to leap from windows as army bulldozers rammed their homes. "Our neighbor stood on the roof of his house and pleaded with the army to let him get his grandfather out of the house, he's old and moves slowly especially when burdened down with an RPG," said Ahmad Ishta, a resident of Rafah's Brazil neighborhood. Four people helped the elderly man get out of the house.
"Dump Grandpa, git that RPG!"
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/20/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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May 20, 2004: Anti-Christian violence in the northern city of Kano has left over 500 Christians dead, and twelve churches destroyed. The Moslem mobs doing all the dirty work insist they are part of a Jihad (holy war) against non-Moslems in Nigeria.
Meanwhile, the president has replaced the elected governor of Plateau State with a retired general and ordered the new governor to quell the violence between Christians and Moslems there. This angered the Christians in Plateau State, who see the removal of their governor as a concession to Moslems, who the Christians see as the aggressors. A lot of the religious violence goes back to ancient tribal conflicts between the Fulani tribes, who are largely herders and Moslem, and other tribes who have come into contact with the Fulani, but are farmers and largely Christian.
Christians are also angry over the use of Islamic law in northern, largely Moslem, states. This religious law is being imposed on non-Moslems, despite protests from the federal government and the non-Moslems involved. There is growing fear of a civil war along religious and tribal lines.
Posted by: ed ||
05/20/2004 5:54:02 PM ||
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#1
Nigeria's been going to hell ever since the British pulled out and left the south to the *mercy* of the northern Muslims. Another example of the "You look at this and tell me why Islam is a Religion of Peace" incidents we've been seeing so much of lately.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 20:47 Comments ||
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#2
The problem is that, since it is Muslims who are doing it, the media thinks it is A-OK to commit genocide and murder (and rape and enslavement). So most people will never see or even know what is happening.
As evidence I give:
(By media I mean the ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/BBC alphabet soup)
The genocide, murder, rape, and enslavement happening in Sudan upon non-muslims by muslims - no mainstream press coverage.
The Murder of a 8 month pregnant woman and her 4 young daughters execution-style in the Gaza strip by muslims. Each child received 2 shots in the head and the woman 1 in the belly. - no (or very little) press coverage.
Berg - beheaded on video by muslims - very little press coverage - and then just about only of his father blaming President Bush.
Isreal - Each terrorist bombing (by muslims) is barely mentioned in the media and even then it is protrayed to be Isreal's fault (in retaliation). Yet each IDF action is pasted accross the media as a war crime for a week.
9/11 - The media is trying its best to blame this on Bush with the '9/11 comission'.
When was the last time the media blamed Al-Q, Sadr, etc.... for anything?
Excerpt. Another point of view is posted above. Or is it below? Where am I? Have we been introduced?
We have to speed the kill. For two decades, our military has concentrated on deploying forces swiftly around the world, as well as on fighting fast-paced conventional wars â with the positive results we saw during Operation Iraqi Freedom. But at the infantry level, we've lagged behind â despite the unrivaled quality of our troops. We've concentrated on critical soldier skills, but ignored the emerging requirements of battle. We've worked on almost everything except accelerating urban combat â because increasing the pace is dangerous and very hard to do.
Now we have no choice. We must learn to strike much faster at the ground-truth level, to accomplish the tough tactical missions at speeds an order of magnitude faster than in past conflicts. If we can't win the Fallujahs of the future swiftly, we will lose them. Our military must rise to its responsibility to reduce the pressure on the National Command Authority â in essence, the president â by rapidly and effectively executing orders to root out enemy resistance or nests of terrorists. To do so, we must develop the capabilities to fight within the "media cycle," before journalists sympathetic to terrorists and murderers can twist the facts and portray us as the villains. Before the combat encounter is politicized globally. Before allied leaders panic. And before such reporting exacerbates bureaucratic rivalries within our own system.
Time is the new enemy. Fighting faster at the dirty-boots level is going to be tough. As we develop new techniques, we'll initially see higher casualties in the short term, perhaps on both sides. But as we should have learned long ago, if we are not willing to face up to casualties sooner, the cumulative tally will be much, much higher later. We're bleeding in Iraq now because a year ago we were unwilling even to shed the blood of our enemies. The Global War on Terror is going to be a decades-long struggle. The military will not always be the appropriate tool to apply. But when a situation demands a military response, our forces must bring to bear such focused, hyper-fast power that our enemies are overwhelmed and destroyed before hostile cameras can defeat us. If we do not learn to kill very, very swiftly, we will continue to lose slowly.
Peters makes a good point here, but rather than "killing faster" the solution has to be to ignore the carpers, which is a hard thing to do. I was damned disappointed at the deflation of the political will in Washington with regard to Fallujah. Not to Kerry on like Chicken Little, but it brought back memories of Vietnam: too damned much control from the top when commanders should have been concentrating on killing the enemy. It should have been planned and executed as a military operation. Give a competent S3 a problem and they can come up with a plan in 24 hours. Objective: Take the city of Fallujah. Go get it, guys.
Peters is right that it should have been carried out in jig time, with as few casualties on our side as possible; but the speed and the details of the operation should be been determined at the battalion or brigade commander's level, not in Washington. And once started it never should have been stopped. We said what we were going to do, then we didn't do it. That was the first time we've done that in this war, and I think not following through hurt us and will continue to hurt us.
I hope one of the things they're working on at Leavenworth and Carlisle right this moment is the difference between combat operations and post-combat operations. We've got the combat operations down: we field a well-equipped, well-led, disciplined force that's a match for any nation in the world. When we take on Iran and Syria and Sudan, possibly not in that order, each campaign will last less than a month and victory is going to be overwhelming. But we're going to take casualties in the occupations that follow, unless we get in, beat them up, and then get out right away, which actually makes sense to me. But then, I'm a believer in the "it's their country, let them screw it up if they want to" approach.
If we don't, we're going to need a different kind of force: not peacekeepers, because there isn't going to be a peace to keep; not police, because policemen arrest people and hold them for trial, while soldiers and Marines kill them or intern them; not the combined arms troops that smash and destroy similar enemy formations; and not civil affairs because we're going to be busy defeating a force of Bad Guys, organized or un-, rather than digging wells and handing out schoolbooks to all the cute little kiddies whose big brothers we're busy bumping off at night.
The difference between a soldier and a gunny, as I've pointed out before and Steven den Beste has pointed out more eloquently, is discipline and training. A force of real soldiers against a similar sized group of tough guys will beat the tough guys hands down 100.00 percent of the time. But the tough guys will continue to be able to beat the soldiers up in an alley significantly better than 50 percent of the time. It's the training, discipline, and esprit that makes the difference. In the field, we have the heavy artillery. In the alley, they're the ones with the brass knuckles.
So the army of the future has to be split into two parts: the maneuver divisions for killing large numbers of ploughboys and street yo's in tin hats, and the pacification divisions, which in the ideal will consist of guys trained to operate in very small units â three men and up, I'd guess â using police tactics to accomplish military ends, to whit, the icing of large numbers of hard boyz, several at a time. The three-man team should ideally be able to walk into the alley where the soldier was beaten up, meet the same six guys, and haul out two corpses, two hospital cases, and two talkers. That would imply something between special ops training and the training given in a reasonably tough police academy, with a search-and-destroy orientation. They'd be cruising, looking for alleys to go into.
It implies a heavy tactical intel element at the unit headquarters level. It implies small, heavily armored vehicles and probably robots controlled from within the vehicles. There would have to be organic EOD elements, ground surveillance radars, and bomb-sniffing dogs. The principle would be to bring the same kind of overwhelming force up close and personal that the Army and the Marines now brings in combat operations.
The more I think about it, the more logical it becomes. The TO&E shapes up okay, though the chain of command would be tangled from a military point of view, and the units could be assembled probably in under a year, with no new inventions having to be brought on line. Most large municiple police departments, for instance, have big blue armored cars that could be painted khaki, and they've got SWAT trainers they could lend.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 19:13 Comments ||
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#2
Yeah, the media is the problem. Ignorant people spouting half-baked opinions. I find most of them indistinquishable from Michael Moore (but slimmer with better haircuts).
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 19:24 Comments ||
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#3
Actually, I think this is wrong. If we had responded fast to the situation in Fallujah, the troops would have been going into an ambush by a 2-3 brigade-sized force, and not very well prepared for it. Cordoning, sectioning, and sweep was the correct response.
No matter WHAT we do, Al Jazeera is going to report that we have been defeated, but cruelly massacred women and children along the way. Even if we could produce the sort of super-rapid force that Col. Peters is suggesting.
There is no easy, convenient, technological or logistical solution to the situation we're in, where the enemy hides behind women and children. And I think it's a mistake to look for one.
What we need to do is to stop pretending that the other side's terrorist tactics mean they are right and we are wrong; we also have to stop pretending that the press' approval of such tactics means anything else than that they are a bunch of terrorist sympathizers. And the administration needs to say this.
We need a way of making the liberals face reality, that supporting al-qaeda-affiliated insurgents whose main source of support is extorted from the civilian populace under fear of their own deaths and the deaths of their families, isn't very "liberal," as they usually think of it.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
05/20/2004 19:25 Comments ||
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#4
Phil, I think this strategy, as applied in Falluja, would not mean immediately rushing in. Instead it would mean taking our time to come up with a plan (like we did) and then executing a quick, massive, decisive operation that would be over in 3 days, not one that could drag on for weeks while the press assault gathered steam and momentum. Sure we would get pounded in the press anyway, but by acting with overwhelming, extremely rapid force we could have accomplished our military objective and have something that made the press criticism a reasonable price to pay. Instead we just got the criticism, without stamping out the insurgents. I agree with your final point, but I'm not sure how it can be achieved.
#5
No the problem is our own leadership who refuse to fight the battle in the media. A few videos of the 'insurgents' using human shields of shooting civilians in the back (if that really happened -- I am beginning to have my doubts) would have turned public opinion around.
Instead we get dry and boring press briefings from the CPA. If they had shown a few videos then they would have been free to take a much more aggressive stance with Fallujah. Instead we get smeared in the media and have to take a kids-glove approach (which simply DOESNT FARKING WORK!).
#6
"We've concentrated on critical soldier skills, but ignored the emerging requirements of battle. We've worked on almost everything except accelerating urban combat â because increasing the pace is dangerous and very hard to do."
How do you accelerate urban combat without levelling every building and civilian in sight? There's two components that were needed for a successful outcome in Fallujah: innovation and leadership. Both were missing, for one reason or the other.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/20/2004 19:47 Comments ||
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#7
There are several threads I could post this against. There are facts and there are interpretations, and while it is possible to separate them, in practice no media outlet does. The current coverage on the Gaza situation is a good example. Interpretation is inseparable from bias and the notion that any media is balanced is not only false it is impossible. Western governments are structurally incapable of directly solving the problem, becuase they have to balance competing interests. Thats what governments do. The solution is to support media that provides the interpretations you want to hear. Rantburg television anyone?
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 19:55 Comments ||
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#8
Phil B: Sign me up! We could give Fox a run for their money. (And give DU seizures.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/20/2004 20:00 Comments ||
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#9
The author is a little off imo. How does one speed up op tempo just to beat the media in urban terrain? I would just cordon off areas and not let them in until 72 hours after actions are over - they don't like it, too fucking bad. No more endangering GI's for their story - freedom of the press (and I'm including any country's press) can be stopped on enemy territory when we are dealing out death on jihadi assholes.
I also agree w/CF, time to go balls out on our media campaign of the truth. I'd like to see the admin and the prez hold more press conferences for the American people to see good footage of what's really going down. More pseudo state's of the union or state of OIF for that matter concentrating solely on what went well and what we are working on by W himself during primetime. A sort of modern fireside chat if you will. But he has to get intimately engaged w/it and hit it hard. The pundits will whine but I think the American people will see why we need to stay in Iraq for now.
#10
Peters hyperventilates, blames W, and gives excellent advice, but never in the same column. He's a loose cannon, mixing good/bad for publicity and effect. His good is good, and his bad could come from the Kerry camp...I'm thinking multiple personalities
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 20:21 Comments ||
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#11
To the guys in general: I probably should have written a second draft of my earlier comment, but I rushed it off. Ironic, I know. I think y'all know what I meant, though.
I think CrazyFool's onto something about the videos.
I also think Phil B's onto something about Rantburg Television; I've been thinking for a while about a Rantburg Radio Show... unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about radio, so perhaps someone who can actually get through their email deluges could contact James Lileks or Hugh Hewitt for advice.
OTTH: I do appreciate what Lileks wrote last week (?) about talk radio, and one of the advantages of the internet over talk radio is that we only have to write when the spirit takes us, and if we only have two hours of decent material in a week we don't have to fill the remaining thirteen hours the way some talk radio hosts do.
On the fourth hand: perhaps some sort of internet software could be used to bring together the rantburg editors in a wide-area "virtual studio."
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
05/20/2004 21:00 Comments ||
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#12
Oh, and Jarhead managed to say precisely what I had tried to say earlier but screwed up. Thanks.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
05/20/2004 21:01 Comments ||
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#13
The strike fast theme is accurate only if we let it be. If the US has difficulty maintaining the will to stay the course now, less than three years after 9/11, under what circumstance could one possibly expect the US to have the stamina to finish. Sure the main media is partisan, but its the American people's fault. If we are too dumb to recognize the disconnect between national interest and partisan mis-news, then we are a sad lot. Unfortunately, this does not bode well for the good guys.
But it is not over yet, and the American people have a new tool, the internet, that can be used to counter the mis-news. We need to keep writing, keep finding the truth, keep complaining when the real stories are missed, and keep the faith. These are dark days, but the operation in Iraq has not been easy in the best of days. Since when is it supposed to be easy? It didn't look too easy at Iwo Jima. Stay focused and keep writing, and the people can help win in a way that we never thought possible.
#14
under what circumstance could one possibly expect the US to have the stamina to finish.
After a couple more 9-11s. Maybe.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/20/2004 21:08 Comments ||
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#15
The answer is simple. The hostile and biased media personnel need to become regular victims of collateral damage. Particularly the AlJizz and the
CBSABCNBCCNNMSNBCAPBBCNYTLAT ETC.
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
05/20/2004 21:09 Comments ||
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#16
Raphael may be right, or it may be a terrifically worse stike on a US or European city. But I tend to think Jake is right. We get caught up in the sensational daily news stories too, but you really can't get an accurate picture of the forrest focusing on individual trees. We have 135K troops in Iraq, and on a good day we read stories of about 100 of them, and only about the trouble spots. "We need to keep writing, keep finding the truth, keep complaining when the real stories are missed, and keep the faith." There may be half the people in this country hoping we lose and 90% of the media. We need to help keep people focused.
Posted by: Sam ||
05/20/2004 21:28 Comments ||
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#17
The right way to do this is to make the libreral media a laughingstock. A weekly TV show in which Dennis Miller roasted one show or at most three shows, like the screw ups on Meet the Press last week. Make people laugh. They like it. Make people laugh at the pompous in the Media. They don't like it.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/20/2004 21:42 Comments ||
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Asma Gull Hasan, 29, is a lawyer in San Francisco, an author, and a speaker. Sheâs also a self-described "Muslim Feminist Cowgirl" who grew up in Colorado and went to prep school on the East Coast. The daughter of Pakistani immigrants and born in Chicago, she considers herself an all-American girl. Hasan, who writes frequently for Beliefnet, has just published a new book, Why I Am a Muslim.
... When I was at the Islamic Society of North America [ISNA] convention last year selling my first book .... there were also young, traditional men [who] would come up and say, "Why arenât you wearing a cover? And how can you expect me to buy a book when thereâs a picture of you on the front and youâre not wearing a cover?" And I would say, "Look, you donât have to buy the book." Meanwhile, a rumor got spread around that on a certain page of my book I wrote that the head cover is not required. So throughout the convention, young men would come up in groups of two or three and pick up the book and go right to this one page. ....
... about 10 percent of Muslim women in America wear the head cover. I have no idea where they got that number. But based on what Iâve seen, I would say that statistic is pretty accurate. But when you go to an event like ISNA, thereâs a lot of peer pressure to wear the head cover, because literally every woman is wearing the head cover. Probably out of all the women wearing the head cover there, less than half actually wear it every day. .... Now certainly in a mosque, when youâre praying, both men and women are supposed to cover their hair. Men are supposed to wear a prayer cap and women are supposed to wear a scarf, so in the mosque I cover my hair, no question about that. But I donât think in daily life itâs required. ... Here in America, the young women who wear it, say, in college, feel that itâs their way of protest. Some of them feel that itâs a feminist thing. Itâs their way of protesting judgment based on their appearance ....
I was at an event at the Islamic Center of Southern California and there were two high school-age girls buying my book. I remember them because one of them was listening to an iPod, but sheâd taken the headphones out. The music coming out of the headphones was "Milkshake," which is a hip-hop song. .... and she said to me, "Itâs so great to see a Muslim woman. Every time we come to the mosque, itâs always a lecture and itâs always some old guy."
Other Muslim women were saying they have nothing to give their daughters thatâs positive about Islam to read. Or nothing to take to school to show their teachers. When I was writing this book and listening to my own iPod, I heard "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" by Cyndi Lauper, which was a big hit when I was young. And I thought, you know, as Muslims we never get to have fun anymore. Itâs all serious. Itâs all business. ....
I think the number one issue for Muslim women, for my generation, in their 20s and even 30s, is how do we find a suitable Muslim mate. Some Muslim women have chaperones and they meet over the phone and email. .... But thatâs limited to conservative, traditional Muslims .... If I were to go out on a date with a Muslim man, and we would date for a couple months, that would almost give me a bad reputation in the South Asian community and the larger Muslim community. Thereâs only a certain amount of finding a spouse that you could do thatâs within the parameters. Itâs very difficult for us to figure out how we go about this. Younger Muslim women who are in high school and the tweens and the teens are having a difficult time also, but itâs more related to how they dress. ....
Then in March 2001, I was speaking at a conference at Harvard University on Islam in America and a man was sitting next to me -- a Sufi sheikh. The first thing I noticed about him was he was dressed almost funny. ... It looked like something out of Star Wars. .... And he was very calm. Iâm definitely a high-energy person, and I talk a lot. So here I am sitting next to this person whoâs dressed funny and is incredibly calm, and it almost made me nervous because every attempt to prompt him into chatting didnât work. But then, once I started to accept that this guy wasnât going to talk about the weather, his calm started to have an effect on me and I started to give in to it. ...
Then he gave his talk, and when he was speaking he had so much energy. If he didnât have the podium in front of him he would have flown over it into the audience. Later on, a young Muslim woman who was in the audience was asking me questions. Her questions were not unfair, but she was basically yelling at me. The Sufi sheikh was sitting next to me and this woman was just berating me. Nothing I could say was letting her get some resolution. Finally the Sufi looked up at her and said, "Youâve told her your opinion. Youâre welcome to write your own book. And that should be the end of it."
Afterward, I reread a lot of what I had read about Sufism in college, and I saw it in a new perspective. This Sufi sheikh embodied several Sufi principles, including not letting your emotions control you. The Sufi philosophy is, "Donât give in to those emotions because it will hurt you in a spiritual way -- and you need to be spiritually open because you want to be able to experience things."
Sufis believe that the Prophet Muhammad was spiritually open, that he had an open heart. He was always an optimist. And thatâs how he was able to receive the revelation of the Qurâan. Had he been negative and closed, he wouldnât have heard the revelations. I think Sufi principles come down to a "go with the flow" philosophy.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 6:44:34 PM ||
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Sufi seems to be the real Muslim spiritual center. it really pisses off the traditional Muslims that Sufis like to dance and like music just for the sake of music, and are into joyful exuberance.
Posted by: Bob ||
05/20/2004 20:38 Comments ||
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#6
Agreed, Frank.
Suggested article re-naming: "Why I am a Muslim in the United States."
She can say that and do these things here. She can't there. Islam might not be our enemy, but it is a mindset and interpretation that has far too much support to be categorized as anything less than "becoming mainstream." She takes a vacation to Saudi Arabia, she might be a little surprised.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 20:41 Comments ||
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Bob - Thanx for the link! Pipes, having finally accepted that the Moderate Muslim is a Myth, proves the point beautifully. Excellent!
#9
San Francisco woman lawyer: why I am a muslim? Are you sure this isn't Scrappleface? Actually given what passes for normal thought in Baghdad by the Bay, this shouldn't be surprising. The only thing she left out is how being a lesbian goat herder in her private life makes her a better muslim.
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
05/20/2004 22:07 Comments ||
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#10
"Baghdad by the Bay" - lmao - qoute of the day bro'.
#12
Hey, hey ... I'm willing to accept her at the face of things ... Irshad Manji come to mind? She solidly calls for reform (is she a lesbian? I remember she worked on some gay rights project a while back) and clearly pointed out in today's Wall Street Journal Islam's doctrinal/ideological problems, for example noting that the "anti-killing" clause is conditional at best ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
05/21/2004 0:33 Comments ||
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#13
yeah muhammid had an open heart--especially after he took his 20% after brigand caravan raids and sanctioned the massacre of the beniquraya tribe of meccan jews--all 800 of the men and bouys--the woman he sctooped sold into slavery or gaveaway--the young boys--well when the goats didn't cooperate--whatta guy
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
05/21/2004 2:58 Comments ||
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#14
What a long winded explanation. It would have sufficed to respond to the question, why am I a Muslim woman:
Subterranean self-esteem and toxic gender shame.
Ukraine has tried to use its army to promote the country in a positive light. It has sent peacekeeping missions to the former Yugoslavia and Africa. It also maintains one of the largest coalition contingents in Iraq, with 1,600 troops. But despite such efforts, its record has been blighted again and again by horrific accidents with tragic consequences. Earlier this month, on 6 May, a fire began at a military depot in Melitopol, a city in the southern Ukrainian region of Zaporizhya. The fire touched off eight days of explosions which brought death and havoc to an area covering 400 square kilometers." .... An estimated $450 million in damage was done by the time the explosions died down. ....
The list of Ukraineâs military catastrophes includes the explosion of another ammunition dump last October, in a blast that killed a teenage girl and destroyed much of the base where the ammunition was stored. It also includes the accidental strike on a Kyiv apartment block with a Scud missile. And a Ukrainian missile that inadvertently shot down a Russian civilian airliner, killing all 78 people aboard. And the crash of a fighter plane performing stunts at an air show, which killed 76 spectators. The bad news continued in March, when Ukrainian Defense Minister Yevhen Marchuk announced several hundred missiles were unaccounted for. .... Ukraineâs military, with 355,000 men and women, is Europeâs largest army and the worldâs 13th biggest. But it ranks 126th in the world in terms of funding per capita. ....
Ukraine can decommission about 23,000 tons of ammunition each year but needs to double or triple that capacity --something that Ukraineâs feeble economy does not allow. .... Marchuk has promised reforms aimed at eventually turning Ukraineâs huge conscript army into a compact, professional force. Such reforms are essential if Ukraine is to stand a chance of joining NATO, an ambition declared by Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma two years ago. Last week, Kuchma outlined a plan to pare the military down from its present size of 355,000 men and women to 285,000 by the end of 2005, and to 200,000 by end of 2006. ... the majority of senior military officers and politicians favor their country joining NATO -- something that could give reforms a boost. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 5:59:32 PM ||
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In the district of Mezan in Zabul, Taliban Mujahideen have attacked a government building. The fighting was fierce as government troops tried to defend the building. Two Afghan soldiers were killed and two Taliban Mujahideen were martyred. No other details are available. In Paktika, another government building was attacked in Waza Khuwa. A police officer and a driver for the government were killed in the attack. The fighting also resulted in martyrdom of two Taliban Mujahideen. Sana News reports that sixteen Afghan national army soldiers were killed in two separate Taliban attacks. The first was in Mezan, Zabul and resulted in the deaths of three Afghan soldiers and four others were also wounded. Two Taliban were martyred in the battle and three were captured by enemy forces. Taliban sources have said that six vehicles being used by the afghan troops were also destroyed. The other incident occurred in Waza Khuwa, Paktika and resulted in the deaths of thirteen Afghan soldiers. Details of the operation are not yet available.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 5:48:05 PM ||
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Of Muslims accidentally killed by Muslims, someone once told me, "good Muslims don't mind being martyred; bad Muslims deserve it".
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/20/2004 18:02 Comments ||
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#2
The end effect being the same why would I care?
Posted by: Michael ||
05/20/2004 18:18 Comments ||
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I'm with Michael. Long as they're dead, I don't care what they call it.
A leader of the armed wing of the radical Hamas movement has been killed in an Israeli air strike in the southern Gaza town of Rafah, it has been reported. AFP news agency said the news came from Palestinian medical and security sources. The body of 37-year-old Khalid Abu Anza, who was killed in the early morning, was recovered by medics in the evening, AFP reported. His death brings the number of Palestinians killed in Rafah on Thursday to eight. (must be stale...thought there was a lot more martyrs)
It brings the overall toll since the September 2000 start of the Palestinian intifada to 4,075, including 3,086 Palestinians and 918 Israelis, according to an AFP count.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 3:01:33 PM ||
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BK, you assume that they are rational or conscience of how stupid they truly are. I think that was two weeks. Who had two weeks in the âguess when the next Hamas leader gets whackedâ pool? Strange that a big wig would be around an ongoing Israeli operation. Seems dangerous for most people, let alone a hunted person. Also wasnât the count 20 yesterday? Were they dead and got better? Is Monty Python counting the corpses?
Bright Side of Life, from Monty Python's Life of Brian
Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistling] {twice}
If life seems jolly rotten,
There's something you've forgotten,
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps,
Don't be silly chumps.
Just purse your lips and whistle. That's the thing.
And...
Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistling] {twice}
For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word.
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin.
Give the audience a grin.
Enjoy it. It's your last chance, anyhow.
So,...
Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistling] {twice}
Police have put an end to the activities of an interregional criminal organization in the Tver region, which specialized in illegal arms and drug trafficking. The backbone of the criminal organization was made of people coming from Chechnya, and it was led by a 34-year-old Chechen, the press service of the Russian Interior Ministry's main organized crime department said in a press release obtained by Interfax on Thursday. The group "arranged a steady channel for shipping firearms from the North Caucasus region to the Tver region and a number of neighboring regions for the needs of criminal structures," the press release reads.
The leader and seven active members of the gang were detained in the Tver region. Two of these people were residing in the region illegally, the document says. The police found an identify card of "an officer of the Sharia security of Ichkeria" on the leader, it reads. The police are checking all the detainees to find out whether they were involved in illegal armed units in the North Caucasus region. Two Kalashnikov assault rifles, three handguns, about $4,000 and extremist Islamic literature were found during their arrest. Law enforcement agencies began receiving information on the criminal group about a year ago, the press release says. A preliminary investigation has determined that part of the money raised through illegal activities has been invested in real estate. "What is noticeable is that the members of the organized criminal group discussed all aspects of their unlawful activities in their native language for secrecy reasons," the press release reads. The investigative department of the Tver regional police department initiated a criminal case on the possession and sales of firearms by an organized group and possession of drugs.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 2:36:27 PM ||
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Russia's three main Muslim organizations are joining forces to combat Islamic extremism. They have also vowed to work with the government and Russian society through a new joint council. The council is made up of The Co-ordination Centre for Muslims of the Northern Caucasus, the Council of Russian Muftis and the Central Spiritual Directorate of Russian Muslims. They say they will work with the Russian government in its fight against extremism and terrorism. Russia has seen a surge in radical Islam, notably in Chechnya where some separatist rebels are fighting Russian forces under the banner of fundamentalism.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 2:34:43 PM ||
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Muslim organizations to combat Islamic extremism?
"I'll take 'Mission - Impossible' for $400, Alex."
Palestinian boys chased a limping ostrich through a Gaza refugee camp Thursday after an Israeli raid spelled disaster for a zoo that was a rare amusement spot for local children.
No word on the fate of the baby ducks
The Israeli army, which uprooted over 1,000 Rafah residents by demolishing homes in a hunt for Palestinian militants, denied flattening the zoo and suggested its creatures had escaped because they were not being cared for. Whatever happened, Palestinian boys made the best of the situation. Spotting the ostrich on the loose, they gave chase, grabbed the bewildered, mangy-looking African bird and trotted through the streets with it, laughing heartily.
"Man, would ya look at those drumsticks!"
I'm sure it was all great fun. A couple or three years ago there were two separate incidents where grown men were kicked to death by horny ostriches protecting their wimminfolk. But I'm sure that was set up by Zionists...
The zoo site was in a neighborhood sealed off by Israeli troops. Residents said it had been a tiny, spartan affair hosting two ostriches, an array of colorful parrots and other exotic baby ducks birds, some snakes, one monkey -- and a pony painted with black stripes to make it look like a zebra.
We CAN'T make this stuff up!
Some 250 families in the camp -- erected in 1949 for Palestinians uprooted by Israel's independence war -- found themselves homeless again and were housed by U.N. relief workers in dingy school classrooms and rows of tents.
The U.N. = providing job security since 1949
The house demolitions were nothing new in the conflict between Israel and Palestinians who launched an uprising in occupied territories three and a half years ago. But the zoo was something special for Rafah's deprived youngsters. Its reported demise rubbed salt in the wounds of the community as the death toll from the raid rose to 40, several of them children in a protest march that came under tank fire.
Please! My heart strings! I'm not a young man anymore. I can't take it!
Note "reported demise".
"Rafah's zoo was the only place of entertainment for kids here. It's a shame they destroyed it, but no surprise. Those who killed the children can also kill their fun," said Ahmed Hussein, a taxi driver who used to take future suicide boomers families to the zoo. An Israeli army spokesman denied that troops had destroyed the zoo. "It was a very small petting zoo close to a school and the animals just escaped somehow. We didn't hurt them." The fate of the second ostrich, the monkey and pony was unknown.
Lunch is served
But children said they saw some of the parrots flying over the neighborhood, in addition to the wandering ostrich. "The demolished houses made me angry when I heard about it on the news, but the zoo was the only place where I could go with my friends to play and watch these strange animals," said Mohammed, a 12-year-old running after the ostrich.
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 12:50:53 PM ||
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The fate of the second ostrich. . . was unknown.
#2
zoo? Bwaahahaha.... Tijuana has the paintedburros zebras too . Did these guys have the paintings of Elvis on black velvet?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 15:07 Comments ||
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#3
They can't afford to feed their own people, yet they can afford a zoo. So typical of the Paleos to want a zoo so they can cage and opress something, since the JEws aren't being coraperating.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/20/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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Frank G - No paintings of Elvis. These folks are more modern than that. It's Michael Jackson on velvet that is the top item.
âUnbalanced villains...with no homeland or religionâ: King Mohammed did not mince his words. When Morocco marked the first anniversary of the suicide attacks that shattered its self-proclaimed image of a haven of stability in the Arab world, the king reminded his people who the perpetrators were. Moroccan authorities say Osama bin Ladenâs al Qaeda network bankrolled the assailants. According to the head of the security forces, General Hamidou Laanigri âonly a dozen dangerous people are still on the runâ.
King Mohammed, Moroccoâs highest religious authority, stressed the need to âshield Morocco from the perils of extremism and terrorismâ. In a speech before top religious clerics, he outlined reforms designed to rid Morocco of imported radical doctrines and give impetus to its more tolerant brand of Islam. One of the results of the Casablanca bombings has been to force the Moroccan authorities to confront hard-line preachers accused of inspiring radical militants. They propagated Wahhabism, an austere interpretation of Islam from Saudi Arabia - bin Ladenâs birthplace - and benefited from Saudi scholarships and funds. Over the years, their increasing popularity transformed Moroccoâs mosques into a political forum. Up to two thirds of Moroccoâs 32,000 mosques are managed by private donors while officially under the watch of the Religious Affairs Ministry.
In recent years many clandestine mosques have flourished in poor neighbourhoods. Often run by Islamist organisations, their popularity rose thanks to outspoken independent clerics who threatened Jews and attacked Moroccoâs pro-US policy. After Friday prayers their followers would distribute pamphlets in support of bin Laden, denouncing Moroccoâs âapostate regimeâ or the religious status of the king. Many of these âgarage mosquesâ have been closed over the past year. Others now open only at prayer times to prevent suspicious gatherings. Tapes of popular clerics, traditionally sold after Friday prayers, have been banned outside mosques.
Economics professor and left-wing militant Driss Benali said the clampdown and reforms may not be enough. âIn the short term, we need to control mosques. But Iâm afraid radicals will undertake underground activities and there wonât be any control over them,â he said. Many say religious extremists now gather in public markets or in their homes, away from state control. The king has set up two new directorates to oversee the administration of the mosques and modernise clerical education. The reorganisation of the religious affairs ministry was met with some scepticism. âLast Mayâs events only brought up to date a policy that has been outlined before,â said historian and sociologist Mohamed el Ayadi, referring to legislation allowing state control of mosques. For Ayadi, the key issue is what sort of clergy would emerge. âAre we going to have the same clerics as in the past and find ourselves with the same speeches?â he asked, stressing the need for a new generation of religious scholars with a modern understanding of Islam.
The jailing of two radical clerics under a new anti-terrorist law last September revealed a considerable shift in religious policy. Radical theorists Hassan Kettani and Abu Hafs were jailed for 20 and 30 years respectively for undermining the stability of the state. At the trial prosecutors said they had âinspired the (Casablanca) suicide bombersâ. The pair, who had delivered their spittle-laden fiery sermons under the complacent eye of the authorities for years, were detained after an alleged al Qaeda cell was broken up in 2002 and the arrest of extremists for religiously motivated crimes.
Omar al-Qazabriâs recorded sermons are still a big hit in downtown Casablanca, despite his departure for Saudi Arabia last year. The Saudi-educated Moroccan is remembered as a charismatic extremist even by those who attended his mosque in Casablancaâs Al Oulfa district. âThere were several rows of people weeping during his khotba (sermon). They liked him very much,â said a man who used to attend prayers during the holy month of Ramadan. âBefore it was so crowded that the streets were closed. Now thereâs no one on Fridays, everything has been swept away.â
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 11:14:54 AM ||
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I never thought I would call a man named Mohammed an anti-idiotarian, but here's the proof.
Nice catch, Dan D.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
05/20/2004 11:20 Comments ||
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Morrocco's elites desparately want to join the EU. They've been working their way down the checklist for EU membership: abolishing the death penalty, proclaiming freedom of religion, freeing up the economy. Meanwhile the wahhabi money floods in and the poor in the cities and countryside soak up the not-so-good word like a dry sponge. It'd be an interesting race to idly sit back and watch if it didn't result in so many people getting killed.
#3
"Said a man who used to attend prayers during the holy month of Ramadan (when a pro-terror mullah would speak, before being run out of town): âBefore it was so crowded that the streets were closed. Now thereâs no one on Fridays, everything has been swept away.â
Which proves that they are not interested in their religion at all. They just want to start war. It's so f-cking exciting to them.
What can King Mohammed do? I'm sorry he's in such a predicament. He should divert a lot of money toward education and social progams.
#4
Mo and his brother are more western in outlook than any other "Islamic" country leader. Where as most Arab leaders spend their downtime in London, Rome or Paris - the brothers are more at home in the Apple, Miami and other US cities (especially those with great golf courses). The odd thing about 11A5S' comment is that Israeli teams are least playing soccer in Europe and have contestents in the Eurovision song contest - Morroco ain't there yet and will never get to where Israel is economically or politically.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
05/20/2004 14:44 Comments ||
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#5
Just like the dude in Turkey, this and other 'moderate' Muslim leaders have a problem: the Quran doesn't define Islam moderately. This is a point that bin Laden starts every radio message with, "the Quran calls for jihad." And it doesn't define jihad as some spiritual discipline, like fasting. It calls for attacking the enemies of Islam.
The problem IS the religion. Failure to grasp this is costing the west dearly. Every 'moderate' muslim is simply a daily devotion away from a 'radical' one. Or as Osama (and the Prophet) would say, a 'true' one.
Posted by: scott ||
05/20/2004 17:34 Comments ||
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#6
Morocco is an anomaly in the moslem world. They make good wine and decent beer. The people value education and have a sense of humor, most unislamic.
Pakistani authorities have arrested a 22-year-old German armed with a gun and a dagger for trying to enter the country's wild tribal region without permission, officials said on Thursday.
"Drop the heater and put yer hands up, Fritz!"
A provincial government official said the man -- identified by his passport as Richard Cahoon -- had told police he wanted to visit the Kurram tribal agency to learn more about Islam, a religion he converted to several years ago. The official, who did not want to be named, said Cahoon had an unlicenced handgun and a dagger in his possession when he was arrested on Wednesday and was being questioned.
He didn't need a license for his rocket launcher, though...
Kurram agency is about 90 km (56 miles) southwest of Peshawar, capital of North West Frontier Province. According to the official, Cahoon told the investigators he had visited Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Sudan before coming to Pakistan because he wanted to learn more about his adopted religion. An official of the German Embassy in Islamabad told Reuters it was seeking more information about the arrested man. "If he is a German national, we will take all necessary steps in consular affairs, including seeking access," he said.
"If not, somebody'll probably cut his head off."
Another Pakistani official said Cahoon arrived in the industrial city of Karachi on March 26 and visited the radical Binori Town religious school, which taught many members of Afghanistan's former hardline Taliban regime. The school is run by Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, a senior cleric was once a close associate of Mullah Mohammad Omar, the fugitive leader of the Taliban, which has emerged as a guerrilla since being overthrow by U.S.-led forces in 2001.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 11:13:07 AM ||
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Cahoon? German? Sounds like a naturalization error.
Three Afghans working on a census and a policeman were wounded on Thursday when their vehicle was hit by a remote-controlled explosive device in the eastern province of Khost, a senior official said. General Kheyal Baaz Sherzai, the top military commander for Khost province, blamed Islamic militants from the ousted Taliban regime or their al Qaeda allies. According to local witnesses, the wounded were evacuated from the scene by a U.S. military helicopter, but their condition was not immediately known.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 11:11:58 AM ||
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We're census takers.
Are you married... or happy?
President Pervez Musharraf, a key ally in the U.S.-led war on terror, vowed on Thursday to eliminate al Qaeda militants hiding in Pakistan's wild tribal region, whether by political or military means. Speaking at a security conference in Islamabad, Musharraf said Pakistan's latest efforts to seek the surrender of hundreds of foreigners living in the semi-autonomous region should not be construed as a "compromise" in its fight against terror. "Our operations against al Qaeda in our tribal areas will continue unabated," the official APP news agency quoted him as saying. "There is no compromise whatsoever, they (al Qaeda) have to be eliminated whether through political or military means."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 11:09:23 AM ||
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Didn't we hear this about three months ago? Or was it a couple years ago? I'm sure we'll hear it again in six or seven months. Is there anyone out there who believes this?
#2
Drivel. Endless drivel from Musharraf. It's evident he no longer controls his military, government, or people. Or if he does, he's part of the complacency given towards the scum rat-holing in the bordering tribal villages. This includes the so-called "military forces" of Pakistan. If they can't pacify there own borders, what good are they as supposed "allies"?
Whatever carrot we (USA) are giving the Pakistan nation's leadership to aid us in this war against our enemies--well, it's time to withdraw it and do the job ourselves. Napalm, anyone?
#3
What's wrong with Rantburg? I had to come in a side door. If I enter the web address into MS IE says..."page can not be displayed"...same if I click on "today".
whassup? Hope everything is ok.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 13:10 Comments ||
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#4
Musharraf's anti-terror drives seem to coincide with whenever there is an assassination attempt against him. Basically, it's CYA and not much else. Just look at the severe prosecution that Abdul Qadeer Khan faced for massive proliferation of nuclear technology. What was it, a slap on the wrist and a stern lecture?
As to this board being attacked, it plain sucks. Fred and the gang here seem to respect free speech rather well. I'll go so far as to say I represent an example of that. People who are unable to participate legitimately and instead seek to illicitly intervene are essentially criminals and fascists, regardless of their political stripe.
I hope Fred is able to identify those who have instigated this series of attacks and prosecute them in some way. The ISPs of those who are launching these attacks really need to know about the abuse of their operations. It is essentially a form of spam and not much else.
#5
#3 B, me too, I thought I went missing in action for a bit there; had to amuse myself with algerian translations.
Back to the subject, (sort of); (un)-fortunately, the Wakis* in the west will have to either be sent home "en masse" or confined, a la WW2. I do not believe there is a Wakistani out there with whom I would entrust anything. Stop the money, charity, aid and benefits/housing. Maybe if the western{(?)!} Muslims explained to the folks back home that soon they will become The Most Hated people within their western societies, and that pretty soon none of them will have anything anywhere, they could start apologising.
*Waki, generic for "untrustworthy moonbatting lunatic, always scheming with delusions of grandeur, not to be trusted".
#6
I think we try to respect free speech here (it occasionally gets out of hand and I suppose I've tried to step in once or twice, but hey, that awesome graphic on the front page says it all, eh?); I certainly have come to really enjoy the site - did before I started to post, in fact, and wouldn't want to see it go down for any reason.
Anyway, maybe if Musharraf keeps saying it enough, they'll just break down and give up . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 15:51 Comments ||
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#7
A big yawn for Perv from Nome.....SOS....
Posted by: Alaska Paul in Nome ||
05/20/2004 15:59 Comments ||
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#8
but hey, that awesome graphic on the front page says it all ...
Yes it does, and I am obliged to supress a snigger whenever I see it. 'Tis one of the things that drew me into this donnybrook-posing-as-a-debate in the first place.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police raided the residence of Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday, and aides accused the Americans of holding guns to his head and bullying him over his criticism of plans for next monthâs transfer of sovereignty.
There was no comment from U.S. authorities, but American officials here have complained privately that Chalabi â a longtime Pentagon favorite â is interfering with a U.S. investigation into allegations that Saddam Husseinâs regime skimmed millions in oil revenues during the U.N.-run oil-for-food program.
Salem Chalabi, nephew of Ahmad Chalabi and head of the Iraqi war crimes tribunal, said his uncle told him by telephone that Iraqi and American authorities "entered his home and put the guns to his head in a very humiliating way that reminds everyone of the conduct of the former regime."
The younger Chalabi said the reason for the raid was unclear but "they must be afraid of his political movement."
American soldiers and armed U.S. civilians could be seen milling about Chalabiâs compound in the cityâs fashionable Mansour district. Some people could be seen loading boxes into vehicles. Aides said documents and computers were seized without warrants.
Musawi said the U.S.-Iraqi force surrounded the residence about 10:30 a.m. while Chalabi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council was inside. They told Chalabiâs aides that they wanted to search the house for Iraqi National Congress officials wanted by the authorities.
The aides agreed to let one unarmed Iraqi policeman inside to look around.
"The Iraqi police were very embarrassed and said that they (the Americans) ordered them to come and that they didnât know it was Chalabiâs house," Musawi said. "The INC is ready to have any impartial and judicial body investigate any accusation against it. There are American parties who have a list of Iraqi personalities that they want arrested to put pressure on the Iraqi political force."
For years, Chalabiâs INC had received hundreds of thousands of dollars every month from the Pentagon, in part for intelligence passed along by exiles about Saddamâs purported weapons of mass destruction.
Chalabi has come under criticism since large stockpiles of such weapons were never found. Chalabi, a former banker and longtime Iraqi exile, was convicted of fraud in absentia in Jordan in 1992 in a banking scandal and sentenced to 22 years in jail. He has repeatedly denied the charges.
Chalabi has complained recently about U.S. plans to retain control of Iraqi security forces and maintain widespread influence over political institutions after power is transferred from the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority to an Iraqi interim administration at the end of June.
Musawi said Chalabi "had been clear on rejecting incomplete sovereignty ... and against having the security portfolio remain in the hands of those who have proved their failure."
However, U.S. and coalition officials have recently accused him of undermining the investigation into the oil-for-food program. The U.S.-backed investigation has collected more than 20,000 files from Saddamâs old regime and hired an American accounting firm Ernst & Young to conduct the review.
Chalabi has launched his own investigation, saying an independent probe will have more credibility. Chalabi took an early lead in exposing alleged abuses of the oil-for-food program and has been trying to force the coalition to give him the $5 million in Iraqi funds set aside for the probe to pay for his effort. The move was strongly resisted by the U.S. governor of Iraq (news - web sites), L. Paul Bremer
Posted by: Sludj ||
05/20/2004 10:55:13 AM ||
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There was no comment from U.S. authorities, but American officials here have complained privately that Chalabi â a longtime Pentagon favorite â is interfering with a U.S. investigation into allegations that Saddam Husseinâs regime skimmed millions in oil revenues during the U.N.-run oil-for-food program.
Money makes the world go 'round.
Maybe Ahmed Chalabi showed up on a list, and he is a double dealer. . .
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/20/2004 11:31 Comments ||
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#4
There was also something on Fox about Chalabi's group receiving $340K a month from the U.S. gov't. Maybe they are just wondering what the money is going for or where it went. Also, some of the pre-war intel provided to us by Chalabi has been privately determined by top-level brass as "false".
I've long supported that an early withdrawal in Iraq would be terrible because it would in essense mean handing it over to the fascists. But in the past few weeks it has started seeming to me that the longer the US stays there the less it seems to accomplish and the more it embarrasses and puts into a bad position those pro-Western Iraqis who would be in favour of secular democracy and against both secular and Islamist forms of fascism.
So, I think I'll be changing my position to "leave Iraq as soon as possible, hand over all authority to Iraqis now, let them fight it out among themselves and pray for the best". The chances that the fascists will end up winning are too high for me to have supported that earlier, but the problem is that I see these chances be getting greater, not smaller with every passing second.
Sadr seems no nearer to "destruction" than two months ago when he had been first "slated" for it. If there existed foreign fighters in Fallujah they've neither been contained nor destroyed therein -- the only possibly good thing is that unlike the case with Iranian-backed Sadr, Fallujah (with my admittedly very limited info) now has started appearing to me to have been a simple case of nationalistic rebellion. NOT a progressive rebellion that'd establish democracy and human rights for all ofcourse, but not that much of a case of a Saddamist victory over the democratization forces either. Just a case of Iraqis wanting Americans to butt out. If I'm right about this, then Fallujah may not end up signifantly more adverse to democracy than the rest of Iraq, even with an ex-Baathist general currently in command of it.
#7
Two more speculations: 1) Chalabi's credibility in Iraqis' eyes is enhanced when he is viewed as challenging the US--it erases the initial perception that he is a US stooge. Chalabi and the Pentagon both know this, and both want to enhance Chalabi's chances to exert power as the US hands over sovereignty and eventually withdraws. 2) Bush wants the UN to take significant responsibility in Iraq, making it possible for more countries to step in and help carry the load to establish stability. Chalabi is trying to embarrass the UN. Bush cuts a deal with UN to silence/marginalize Chalabi to obtain more cooperation/cover from the UN. I know these two speculations directly contradict each other. This is true, wild (but entertaining) speculation.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 12:18 Comments ||
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#9
Aris, just as on your side of the Atlantic, this side is in a holding pattern until the US elections in November. You won't see much happening on the political front in Iraq, Europe, UN etc. until this question is resolved first...Kerry or Bush? Of course I need not mention most of the world is hoping for Kerry.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/20/2004 14:28 Comments ||
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#10
Short comment. Chalabi was a weasel from the beginning. Indicted for banking embezzlement from a foreign country (who was it, Jordan?) Our boy in the making. Kind of an embarrassment, given he was financed and backed by America. Kind a makes you proud, don't it? Bad grooming. Big ol' black eye on Uncle Sam. Aw well, we did elect Trick Dick after all...
#11
Rafael - The same "most of the world" that supported Hitler.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#12
B - After reading Robert Pelton's The World's Most Dangerous Places (4th edition, not the current anti-American one) several years ago I came to the conclusion that "most of the world" is f*cked.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/20/2004 15:22 Comments ||
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#13
Since the question hasn't yet been resolved, that automatically means that "most of the world" includes about half of the USA, more or less.
I'll leave others to figure out what this turns the "Hitler-supporting" comment into.
#14
Since the question hasn't yet been resolved, that automatically means that "most of the world" includes about half of the USA, more or less
Just the half that's stupid enough to vote for Kerry.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
05/20/2004 16:24 Comments ||
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#15
"Americans of holding guns to his head." Too bad they didn't pull the trigger! This guy is a Saddam wannabe and should be dealt with accordingly. He offers NOTHING to the council and upt till last week was raking in $350k a month. He is also the one that lined up witness after witness about Saddam's WMD program. Shoot him and be done with it.
#16
Aris, I wonder what information you are basing your assessment on (that the longer the US stays the less it accomplishes.) Are you basing it on what the media says? If the past is any guide, I would bet that the media has almost no clue about the reality in Iraq, just as it has no clue about many other aspects of how the world works.
#17
Aris, I wonder what information you are basing your assessment on (that the longer the US stays the less it accomplishes.)
Well, just some time ago no city was in the hands of insurgents as far as I know. Now, Fallujah, Najaf and a couple others whose names I may be forgetting (Kerballa?) seem no longer under the control of those who are trying for secular democracy.
So I can't help but wonder -- if control had been relinquished to the Iraqis a bit earlier on, would the insurgents have an excuse or reason to fight? Might they not have just tried for the political domination games that take place in every democracy? Now they've instead taken by force defacto power to themselves that'll be hard to remove.
#18
"This guy is a Saddam wannabe and should be dealt with accordingly."
In free democracies, the way to deal with "Saddam wannabes" is to not vote them into office. It isn't to act judge-jury-and-executioner on them before they actually commit any crime.
He is also the one that lined up witness after witness about Saddam's WMD program.
That only really matters if he made you take a wrong decision in regards the invasion of Iraq.
Which means that Chalabi arranging for false witnesses is a minor point *unless* you say that invading Iraq was in retrospect a mistake, a mistake only made because of Chalabi's false info.
#19
Listened to KFI this afternoon - word is that Chalabi has been exposed as a paid Iranian agent!!
WTF??
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 20:26 Comments ||
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#20
I remember hearing rumors about that before, Frank; anyone else able to confirm that?
Interesting theory, though probably partially based in ignorance of the Iraqi political situation: if Sadr has been helped by the Iranians or indeed is an Iranian agent, and if Chalabi is, that might mean that random important political and perhaps even strategic info is being leaked to Sadr via, ultimately, Chalabi. A mole advising the rebel, so to speak.
I feel like I'm going out on a limb with that; it's completely wild speculation. Shoot me down at will; I have nothing to back it up.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 20:37 Comments ||
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"anyone else able to confirm that? "
I also remember such rumours been mentioned in Rantburg -- and I remember that at the time I considered it more probable that such rumours were part of Iranian misinformation rather than true.
#22
Aris: "Now, Fallujah, Najaf and a couple others whose names I may be forgetting (Kerballa?) seem no longer under the control of those who are trying for secular democracy."
It is true that this is a bad development but why does a setback like this make you change your position? Would you not expect there to be setbacks and tactical victories by the other side? I know of no wars in which all the battles are won by one side. The setbacks that the US and its allies faced in WWII were monumental compared to anything going on today. But even given these setbacks, what is the information that allows you to conclude that they are not just a minor sideshow in a very large and complex play of forces, both positive and negative, in Iraq. I don't believe that anyone outside of the intel organizations on the ground has anything like an accurate picture of the situation.
Police arrested the mastermind of a failed plot to kill President Pervez Musharraf after an encounter in Buffer Zone in the precincts of Tamoria police on Wednesday, police said.
If you fail to kill the president and get bagged, are you still a mastermind?
They said the CID police raided a house No 1272, Sector 15-A/4, Buffer Zone, on a tip-off that Kamran alias Atif, an activist of banned Harkat-ul-Mujahideen-al-Alami was hiding there. As the police reached the hideout and knocked at the door, two suspects present there, started firing on the police and tried to flee, fearing their arrest. The police chased them, while returning their fire. In the exchange of fire one of the fleeing suspects was injured and arrested, police said. The other fled. Police brought the injured to the Abbasi Shaheed Hospital.
Where they'll patch him up so he can be properly beaten.
During the cross-fire a passer-by woman also sustained bullet injuries. She died on way to the hospital. The deceased was identified as a housemaid, Sarwar Bibi, wife of Imam Bukhash, while the arrested injured was identified as Kamran alias Atif, an absconding accused involved in several cases of terrorism, the police added.
"absconding accused" = fleeing suspect
"Apprehended mastermind" = "naked guy whimpering in the corner with a pair of crotchless lavendar ladie's underpants on his head and no thumbnails"...
Police said in the light of disclosers of the arrested accused, they seized eight hand-grenades, five rockets (RPG-7) with five initiators, a Klashnikov with three magazines, hundreds of rounds of live bullets of various calibres and five bombs, including four telephone bombs and a video-cassette bomb besides Jihadi literature from the house.
Typical holy relics of the ROP
The Prophet (ptui!) was particular fond of telephone bombs...
The Sindh government had already announced a cash prize of Rs 3 million for the arrest of Kamran. According to the police, he was an activist of banned Harkat-ul-Mujahideen-al-Alami, involved in several terrorism activities. He was the mastermind of the first attempt on President Pervez Musharrafâs life at Sharae-Faisal on April 26, 2002, police sources told The News.
So, who was the mastermind of the second attempt?
Chief ministerâs Adviser for Home Affairs Aftab Ahmed Shaikh along with IGP Syed Kamal Shah visited the Abbasi Shaheed Hospital and appreciated the police. The IGP termed the arrest a big achievement against terrorists.
"It's Miller Meca Cola time!"
The body of the deceased woman was handed over to her family after legal formalities. No compensation has so far been announced for her family.
Just replaceable breeding stock
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 8:55:39 AM ||
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At least get up to $500 dollars damage if someone accidently kills our dog.
An intelligence agency has taken into custody four foreigners on charges of supplying Taliban fighting the US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan with food. Two detained foreigners were reported to be Afghans, Abdul Basit and Muhammad Amin, and the remaining two foreignersâ country of origin was not yet ascertained but since they were speaking Uzbek the agency believed them to be Uzbeks.
That makes sense. You hear somebody speaking English, he's likely to be... ummm... an Englishman.
They were identified as Abdullah and Abdul Aziz. The foreigners were picked up from a house on Warsak Road early Wednesday morning on the outskirts of Peshawar. However, it was unclear whether the ISI or the newly formed anti-terrorism Special Investigation Group (SIG) led the raid. The intelligence source, on condition of anonymity, said the four foreigners were âunder observationâ for quite a long time. During the raid, a truck loaded with foodstuffs was also impounded. They were taken to Islamabad in the afternoon for interrogation.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/20/2004 8:45:24 AM ||
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A wanted terrorist was arrested yesterday after a shootout in the central district of Karachi.
"Arrr! Y'll never take me alive, coppers!... Ow... Ow!... Oooch! Hey! Stop that! You're hurting me!"
The arrested man was wounded and was operated upon at a hospital heavily guarded by police and paramilitary rangers, doctors said.
"We'll have to operate. You guys guard the door. Nurse, if he tries to get away, shoot him!"
One female passerby was killed in the shootout.
"Hey! Look out!... Sorry."
The suspect, Kamran Atif, belongs to the Harkatul Mujahedeen Al-Aalmi organization and was among the most wanted person in connection with terrorism in Karachi, police said. âThe suspect was involved in the US Consulate suicide bombing in 2002 and the attempt on President Pervez Musharrafâs life in the port city of Karachi,â police said. The government had announced a 3 million rupees ($52,000) bounty for his arrest. âA CIA police team raided a house in Sector 15-A/4 in the Buffer Zone area in central Karachi on a tip off. The suspect tried to flee which led to a shootout and subsequently his arrest,â a senior police official said. One of the suspectâs colleagues fled the scene, he added.
"Feet, don't fail me now!"
Posted by: Fred ||
05/20/2004 08:56 ||
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Military intelligence officers at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq directed military police to take clothes from prisoners, leave detainees naked in their cells and make them wear womenâs underwear, part of a series of alleged abuses that were openly discussed at the facility, according to a military intelligence soldier who worked at the prison last fall. Sgt. Samuel Provance said intelligence interrogators told military police to strip down prisoners and embarrass them as a way to help "break" them. The same interrogators and intelligence analysts would talk about the abuse with Provance and flippantly dismiss it because the Iraqis were considered "the enemy," he said.
The first military intelligence soldier to speak openly about alleged abuse at Abu Ghraib, Provance said in a telephone interview from Germany yesterday that the highest-ranking military intelligence officers at the prison were involved and that the Army appears to be trying to deflect attention away from military intelligenceâs role. .... And an attorney for one of the soldiers accused of abuse said yesterday that the Army has rejected his request for an independent inquiry, which could block potentially crucial information about involvement of military intelligence, the CIA and the FBI from being revealed.
Provance was part of that military intelligence operation but was not an interrogator. He said he administered a secret computer network at Abu Ghraib for about six months and did not witness abuse. But Provance said he had numerous discussions with members of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade about their tactics in the prison. He also maintains he voiced his disapproval as early as last October. "Military intelligence was in control," Provance said. "Setting the conditions for interrogations was strictly dictated by military intelligence. They werenât the ones carrying it out, but they were the ones telling the MPs to wake the detainees up every hour on the hour" or limiting their food.
The 205th Military Intelligence Brigadeâs top officers have declined to comment publicly, not answering repeated phone calls and e-mail messages. Provance, a member of the 302nd Military Intelligence Battalionâs A Company, signed a nondisclosure agreement at his base in Germany on Friday. But he said he wanted to discuss Abu Ghraib because he believes that the intelligence community is covering up the abuses. He also spoke to ABC News on Sunday for a program that was to air last night. Provance was interviewed by Maj. Gen. George R. Fay -- who is looking into the military intelligence communityâs role in the abuse -- and testified at an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a pretrial hearing, for one of the MPs this month. But Provance said Fay was interested only in what military police had done, asking no questions about military intelligence. ...
Provance said when he arrived at Abu Ghraib last September, the place was bordering on chaos. .... Within days -- about the time Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller paid a visit to the facility and told Karpinski, the commanding officer, that he wanted to "Gitmo-ize" the place -- money began pouring in, and many more interrogators streamed to the site. More prisoners were also funneled to the facility. Provance said officials from "Gitmo" -- the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- arrived to increase the pressure on detainees and streamline interrogation efforts. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 8:50:21 AM ||
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So the network administrator claims that he talked about abuse with someone that may be involved? Good enough for me lets run with it! Wow the threshhold of 'facts' has really become blurred in the media. When I was a Sgt in the military I RARELY had discussions with the commanding general on how my superiors were performing. Seems that this Sgt was well 'connected' indeed! BTW I also have some 'land' in Florida that I want unload sell to you.
#2
Yeah Sarge, not too many MGen's I know interview field grade officers let alone a Sergeant. Maybe he meant a member of his staff or something. However, I am concerned that there could be a kernel of truth here. If intel was involved they need to come clean, everyone in the chain up to the Battalion commander needs to be properly looked at & that's as far as I'd go. These guys were wrong in their deeds but we cannot afford to scapegoat any youngsters - I've seen that happen a few times in my career and it's repugnant.
#3
Good enough for me lets run with it! Wow the threshhold of 'facts' has really become blurred in the media.
This accusation supplements much previous reporting.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 9:28 Comments ||
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#4
Also, the source has publicly identified himself and speaks on the record.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 9:53 Comments ||
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#5
No doubt that things happened in Abul Grab-Ass prison. I don't think Sgt. Samuel Provance added a single fact into that arena. I still think it's a BIG stretch that one General was critical of another in the presence of enlisted or even other officers. This just isnât done in the military at least not in todayâs professional military. They teach you NOT to do this in NCO and Officer Schools because it breaks down discipline. Maybe he heard something from someone who heard something but it sounds like rumors and innuendo from someone who wants his name in the paper. Notice that Sgt Provance was NOT the one that turned in the bad guys. That should tell you something.
#6
Might as well admit some in intel can be weird wannabe "men-in-black" cowboys, who consider themselves "elite" and above the law. The 205th MIB should go ahead and comment, because even if they're not, it sure looks like they're covering ass. Besides, what if intel said to "soften" the prisoners, then the trailer trash brigade went too far-- doing what they do (or would like to do, but can't) on their regular jobs in US prisons? Provance says intel was "in control setting conditions for interrogations, and having MPs wake the detainees every hour, and limiting their food," but he doesn't say they ordered nude foot-in-the-butt pyramids, etc. And I'm sure intel didn't order England and her boyfriend to have candlelight "sex" in front of the prisoners, and then film it, right?
Anyway, I bet everyone's afraid of the CIC, and they should be. I agree with Jarhead, that the underlings shouldn't be punished for the crimes of their superiors.
Hopefully the truth will come out and the Dems will quit trying to use the scandal as ammo for the election and against the WOT.
#7
Provance was part of that military intelligence operation but was not an interrogator. He said he administered a secret computer network at Abu Ghraib for about six months and did not witness abuse.
An I.T. guy that heard second hand descriptions? Yeah, he's on the record OK, but his whole thing of yapping to ABC seems fishy to me. Again I ask. Where's his hidden Kerry button? As a techie and not a fighting person, he has too much time to think over there. Look, I am an I.T. person, I support GWB, but I know a lot of I.T. persons who don't.
#8
Right on, BigEd. About the Kerry button. I think that's definitely a possibility. As an ex-liberal, I can tell you they will stop at nothing to get their people elected. The end justifies the means, and that's the bottom line with them. They believe playing fair is playing stupid, and they are intent on playing to win.
An Israeli court on Thursday convicted popular Palestinian uprising leader Marwan Barghouti, a potential successor to Yasser Arafat, of involvement in attacks that killed five Israelis. Barghouti also was convicted of attempted murder for his role in an attempted car bombing at a Jerusalem mall and for belonging to a terror organization. "The five people who were killed in these attacks that he ordered will not return to life. The widows and orphans will not get their loved ones back. But at least justice was done," said David Saranga, a spokesman for Israel's foreign minister. But the court cleared Barghouti of charges related to other attacks in which 21 Israelis were killed, saying Barghouti "did not have direct control over the militants, but did wield influence." In general, militants did not inform Barghouti of their attack plans but briefed him afterward, the judges said.
Barghouti, wearing a brown prison uniform, sat quietly as the verdict was read. During the 45-minute reading of the verdict, he occasionally blew kisses to supporters and even exchanged jokes with the head of the three-judge panel. Barghouti's sentencing is set for June 6. Prosecutors have asked the court to impose five consecutive life terms. Barghouti, who flashed V-for-victory signs with shackled hands as he entered the courtroom, denounced the ruling, saying he does not accept the court's authority. In a statement issued Wednesday, Barghouti said the court was "a tool used by the Israeli security to keep committing crimes against the Palestinian people and to give legitimacy to these crimes." He also pledged to continue the uprising. "All the practices committed by the Israelis against me will not break my will," the statement said.
How about a nice shot in the head then?
Posted by: Fred ||
05/20/2004 08:43 ||
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"All the practices committed by the Israelis against me will not break my will," the statement said.
Has the Mosaad been in contact with members of the "Abu Gharib 7"?
What color panties was Marwan wearing on his head?
Pink? Lavender? Peach? Red?? Black???
#2
"Barghouti, who flashed V-for-victory signs with shackled hands as he entered the courtroom, denounced the ruling, saying he does not accept the court's authority"
Bet he also doesn't accept the authority of the jailers who lock him up for.the.rest.of.his.life.
and the world continues to turn, eh, Marwan?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/20/2004 17:49 Comments ||
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I wonât comment much on this since I have no idea what exactly went on regarding this incident.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police surrounded the residence of Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday, and an aide said the troops raided the house ostensibly to search for fugitives. The aide, Haidar Musawi, accused the Americans of trying to pressure Chalabi, who was a longtime Pentagon favorite now openly critical of U.S. plans for how much power to transfer to the Iraqis on June 30.
Chalabi seems to have expected us to install him as president. When that didn't happen he started causing trouble.
He said the Americans also raided offices of Chalabiâs Iraqi National Congress. A bit weird, them raiding these offices. snip
U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, have accused Chalabi of trying to interfere with an investigation into alleged corruption of the U.N.-run oil-for-food program, in which Saddam Husseinâs government was allowed to sell oil despite international sanctions to buy food and humanitarian supplies. ahh...now weâre getting somewhere. Iâll leave the rest of the speculation up to you folks.
Posted by: Valentine ||
05/20/2004 7:03:15 AM ||
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#1
Chalabi is the leading advocate of allowing the Governing Council to pursue the oil-for-food scandal. Bremer favors the current investigation by the more independant Surpreme Audit group. Chalabi has his own militia, and has been accused by many Iraiq in-country of corruption. He is also the stereotypical carpetbagger.
#2
technically a carpetbagger was a Northerner who went south after the civil war. Chalabi was born in Iraq, though he spent his adult life in exile.
I would be accept the Chalabi is corrupt and getting out of hand, if this werent happening at the same time as the Fallujah deal, getting in bed with Brahimi, and limiting debaathification.
It smells of turning things back over to the ex-baathist Sunni Arabs beloved of State and CIA, as a cut and run strategy. It smells very bad.
#3
The spin by a spokesman for Chalabi on the radio is that Chalabi is trying to vigorously pursue the Oil for Palaces scandal, but the US (Bremer was named) it trying to impede it.
I am at sea regarding this, so can only ait for further clarifications.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
05/20/2004 11:59 Comments ||
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#4
Powell was right! Chalabi is a crook!
And, the point is?
By the way, liberalhawk, My great-grandfather, union civil war veteran (Private) was technically a carpetbagger
(Ohio->Tennessee), but was generaly accepted by the people of town he moved into. "Carpetbaggers" weren't all hated. Just the ones who lorded the North's victory over the South. It was more about the arrogance of the person than original geography.
#5
Whatever his faults are, Chalabi has been at the forefront even when Gore was pontificating on Iraqi liberation back in mid-90's. Eventhough Clinton admin. didn't back up its words with actions, Chalabi soldiered on. As such, he should not be treated as a vagabond even if he is at a war of words with CPA. If it's all about money he's gotten, have our auditors sit down with his. Otherwise, I hope this is not a clumsy effort by Bush to play the triangulation game. You know, attempt to get on the good graces of an enemy, in this case the UN, by selling out somebody who's been there from the beginning, Chalabi and the INC. The rationale for this kind of action is that the one burned will have no one else to turn to on the other side, a Sadr type, as he has been identified for too long a period with the US officials. We don't need this game. This is a losing strategy. We may not have the finesse to come out of this with both Chalabi and the UN on our side. Plus, we need to shed more light on UNSCAM wrongdoings. Is the quid pro quo that the Ibrahimi will sing our song now? How naive if true.
Posted by: Michael ||
05/20/2004 15:01 Comments ||
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US troops in Afghanistan have written permission to use threats, dogs and the firing of mortars near prisoners to help extract information during interrogations, a German news weekly reported on Tuesday. The magazine said one of its reporters had found and taken photographs of the documents at a US military base in southeastern Afghanistan. The directives also allowed "sensory overload," the use of loud noise or music, "use of warm or cold temperatures, long interrogation sessions, threats of transfer to the US detention center in Guantanamo Bay, and sleep deprivation to weaken prisoner resistance." Stern quoted a passage from the documents saying "prisoners have a right to at least four hours sleep per day ... regardless of how this time is divided up".
Posted by: Long Hair Republican ||
05/20/2004 01:21 ||
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None of this is anything like what was done at Abu Ghraib, and none of it's at all controversial.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
05/20/2004 8:25 Comments ||
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#2
"The magazine said one of its reporters had found and taken photographs of the documents at a US military base in southeastern Afghanistan."
um, okay, sure. Major breach of security if some German reporter just happened along secret documents. If so, who cares. I'd take it much further w/these assholes. Abu Ghraib would like club f'n med compared to the shit a bunch of Drill Instructors could think up for terrorists.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 10:41 Comments ||
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#6
The directives also allowed "sensory overload," the use of loud noise or music, "use of warm or cold temperatures, long interrogation sessions, threats of transfer to the US detention center in Guantanamo Bay, and sleep deprivation to weaken prisoner resistance." Stern quoted a passage from the documents saying "prisoners have a right to at least four hours sleep per day ... regardless of how this time is divided up".
Except for the trip to Cuba it sounds like my last flight to LA.
Posted by: Dan ||
05/20/2004 11:22 Comments ||
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#7
prisoners have a right to at least four hours sleep per day
Four hours of sleep = 240 minutes/day - 10 minutes / hour so:
Each half hour : 5 minutes asleep. 25 minutes awake.
the use of loud noise or music
Again, the William Hung option.
IT WON'T TAKE LONG.
Now that we have a method to handle annoying German reporters, what do we do about those pesky al-Qaedas
#10
Maybe these are the same guys (+ a few extra) that elAdam in-Sane released as he realised his days were numbered. Let's just tell them, "Two strikes and you're out, this aint California, and you'll never get there. Put those panties on your head".
Soon it will be "One strike and you are Out". Bring on the dogs in Wonder-bra's.
BTW, we used to carry a spare round around our necks, 7.62 (long), just in case. Have these guys no honour to do the decent thing before they get captured?
EFL
Commander of the lashkar, Allagai Wazir told tribesmen anyone found giving shelter to foreign militants would face demolition of his house, fine of Rs1 million and banishment from the tribal territory. Later, the lashkar torched down the house of a local tribesman, Sher Khan Tojikhel, who had attempted to stop drummers from beating the drums, while accompanying the lashkar as per tribal custom. "He has interfered with the tribal lashkar and therefore is liable to face punishment," he announced. The armed volunteers attacked the house and burnt it down. There was no one inside the house and no resistance was offered, witnesses said. The tribal lashkar will proceed to Shakai, about 17km to the west of Wana on Thursday to look for foreign militants.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/20/2004 6:01:32 AM ||
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Sher Khan Tojikhel, who had attempted to stop drummers from beating the drums, while accompanying the lashkar as per tribal custom.
Great. I'd be more impressed if they'd burnt down Nek's house instead.
An Iraqi poll to be released next week shows a surge in the popularity of Moqtada al-Sadr, the radical young Shia cleric fighting coalition forces, and suggests nearly nine out of 10 Iraqis see US troops as occupiers and not liberators or peacekeepers. The poll was conducted by the one-year-old Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies, which is considered reliable enough for the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority to have submitted questions to be included in the study.
Although the results of any poll in Iraqâs traumatised society should be taken with caution, the survey highlights the difficulties facing the US authorities in Baghdad as they confront Mr Sadr, who launched an insurgency against the US-led occupation last month. Saadoun Duleimi, head of the centre, said more than half of a representative sample - comprising 1,600 Shia, Sunni Arabs and Kurds polled in all Iraqâs main regions - wanted coalition troops to leave Iraq. This compares with about 20 per cent in an October survey. Some 88 per cent of respondents said they now regarded coalition forces in Iraq as occupiers. Respondents saw Mr Sadr as Iraqâs second most influential figure after Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the countryâs most senior Shia cleric. Some 32 per cent of respondents said they strongly supported Mr Sadr and another 36 per cent somewhat supported him.
Ibrahim Jaafari, head of the Shia Islamist Daawa party and a member of the governing council, came next on the list of influential Iraqis. Among council members, Adnan Pachachi, the Sunni former foreign minister, came some distance behind Mr Jaafari. Mr Pachachi is regarded as the apparent favourite for the ceremonial post of president when a caretaker government takes over.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/20/2004 5:39:54 AM ||
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Who did they poll, People marching in a pro-Sadr parade?
Posted by: Charles ||
05/20/2004 6:55 Comments ||
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The Iraqi's better be careful. We will be handing over the reins of power soon and it will make for an easy exit if they tell us they don't want us there.
#3
God this is going to get ugly. It's too bad too, I had very high hopes for Iraq. But I fear they will ask us to leave and we'll have to, because we said we would. Then it will be civil war. I have a theory: I believe that the sun and high temperatures of the middle east area has caused severe brain damage. Maybe even a permanent genetic mutation that causes severe insanity. Hopefully we can keep the Kurds well-armed. They seem at least half reasonable comapared to the rest of the locos.
#4
Although the results of any poll in Iraqâs traumatised society should be taken with caution,
Did we forget the results are reported by the NY Times, aka Al Jazirra west, also should be taken with caution?
the survey highlights the difficulties facing the US authorities in Baghdad as they confront Mr Sadr, who launched an insurgency against the US-led occupation last month.
Wait a minute!! Has any one examined Sadr's financial records? How do we know he isn't being financed by outside elements? How do we know he isn't being financed by remnants of Saddam's regime, the powerful, uncaptured middle tier of regime loyalists? We all know that the media has a romanticized visage concerning 'insurgencies' and Sadr's 'insurgency' has all the earmarkings of a terrorist organization, not a mass movemement.
Saadoun Duleimi, head of the centre, said more than half of a representative sample - comprising 1,600 Shia, Sunni Arabs and Kurds polled in all Iraqâs main regions - wanted coalition troops to leave Iraq.
Ahhhh, more than half. This is the real news then. Not 90 percent.
This compares with about 20 per cent in an October survey. Some 88 per cent of respondents said they now regarded coalition forces in Iraq as occupiers.
We are occupiers. But we were liberators first, and when the bloody, murderous tragedy befalls Iraq if we are told to leave without rooting out the terroristic element in Iraq, we will know that A) This poll is a rigged lie or B) 88 percent of all Iraqis are idiots.
Respondents saw Mr Sadr as Iraqâs second most influential figure after Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the countryâs most senior Shia cleric.
After 30 years of holy terror, Saddam would have held this mantle, too. Does that make Sadr influential. Of course, but does it mean he and his supporters have acquired this power by democratic means or because outside elements are greasing his palms.
#6
We don't know yet which Iraqis we can trust and which ones we can't. Polling organizations are especially suspect. Who is likely to feel safe walking around asking questions of random people in areas where the extremists rule? Baathists or Islamists. The stuff about the CPA using these guys isn't real surprising - the War College also routinely solicits papers from the hate-America left in order to find out what the other side is thinking.
#7
"I somewhat support" Mr Sadr could simply mean i respect who his dad was. The other results are reasonable - support for Sistani, Jaafari and Pachachi seems in line with what we've heard. 50% wanting us to leave is probably a response to the deterioration of security - not, leave you big bad occupiers - more like - if youre not gonna protect us, whats the point? The support for Sadr though doesnt match what we've actually seen in the South, so I think it needs to be viewed with caution.
#8
Liberalhawk: 50% wanting us to leave is probably a response to the deterioration of security - not, leave you big bad occupiers - more like - if youre not gonna protect us, whats the point?
I wonder how much of this is anger at the US shackling the Iraqi response. Would Iraqis use scorched earth tactics such as threatening the family members of the terrorists? It certainly worked for Saddam.
#9
This is poor polling analysis. It's a start...hopefully they get better with practice. May I suggest that they simply take a walk through Na'jaf and talk to the residents there. I think they would get a much more accurate (and quite different) result.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
05/20/2004 10:57 Comments ||
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#10
Polls are pretty much meaningless. First, rarely are "outsiders" given the exact question(s) asked in the polls. Questions phrased this way or that yield widely varying responses on the same (general) question. The reporting of results rarely give a clue as to the actual questions asked in the poll, or the way the questions were asked, factors which greatly impact those participating in the polls. Next, the demographics of those being polled need to be well-researched. And the people running the polls need to be unbiased. Finally, you have to have a good statistician for interpretation. Otherwise, it's nothing more than pseudo-official junk science falsely lending credibility to whatever the pollsters want to "prove."
#14
The primary difficulty with the military operations in Iraq have been with the military attempting to separate the "innocent" and the "guilty". Shooting a bag guy surrounded by a pre-school class makes things difficult; it gets our guys killed. If there were only bad guys, it would be easier (in some ways) to just end the problem. Granted, there would be all sorts of political complications with the "World Community" (Muslims, and the People Who Want to be Ruled by Them).
Now, if we could just fight all the people who want to fight, it would make things substantially easier. Imagine WWII if we didn't get to kill so many Nazis or Emperor-loving-idiots before the occupation.
There is also this question: What if there are no "innocents" (as in, people who do not want to us)?
Posted by: No Military Experience ||
05/20/2004 14:24 Comments ||
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Strategypage is reporting that the Iraqis mostly vote in tribal blocks in local elections. So do you think that people will tell the poller what they think or what the sheikh tell them to say?
#16
No Military experience - didn't you know? The only people without military experience who are allowed to pontificate on the war are those who are against the war. By the very nature of their having no military experience - it makes them experts in the area of what will happen if we don't fight or pull out.
Indeed they are experts - one need only look to the killing fields of Vietnam, Stalin, Sudan, etc. etc. to see how compassionate, humane and wise they are.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 15:09 Comments ||
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oops...should be...Only people without military experience are allowed
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 15:10 Comments ||
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#18
Iraq The Model handles this question quite nicely...and so does TGA.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
05/20/2004 15:25 Comments ||
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#19
Why wouldn't he be popular? The Bush-Powell-Bremer "faith based" brigade are afraid to kill this cockroach. Iraqis see America on its knees.
Palestinians attempted to kidnap an American journalist from a hospital in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip as Israel Defense Forces troops extended their military offensive there, Israel Radio reported Thursday morning. The unnamed reporter managed to escape, the radio said.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 4:41:05 AM ||
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I'm out of this hell hole! You guys can make your own propaganda from now on!
---unnamed US reporter
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/20/2004 8:07 Comments ||
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#2
Haaretz is reporting it is James Bennet, from the New York Times.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 9:40 Comments ||
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"Haaretz is reporting it is James Bennet, from the New York Times."
NYT, eh? So which is more likely: that he'll abandon the standard NYT bias or that the passenger pigeon will be brought back from extinction? You make the call.
Defying international fury and a rare U.S. rebuke, Israel has expanded its bloodiest Gaza Strip raid in years after killing 38 Palestinians in the besieged Rafah refugee camp. The U.N. Security Council, convened at the behest of Arabs incensed at what they branded a "war crime", urged an end to violence after Israeli forces killed up to 10 Palestinians, many of them youths, at a peaceful protest on Wednesday. Apparently 5 of them were armed but Arabs are allowed to carry guns in a peaceful protest it says so in the Koran.
Reflecting its displeasure, the United States, Israelâs chief ally, allowed adoption of the U.N. resolution by abstaining rather than using its veto. President George W. Bush urged restraint from the Jewish state. Senior U.S. officials kept up pressure with phone calls to Israeli counterparts, urging Israel to wrap up the three-day-old raid as quickly as possible, an Israeli political source said. Dig the canal guys. Its a permanent solution to the problem.
Israeli commentators predicted Israel would soon comply. "Time is running out," read a headline in the Jerusalem Post. But the army, which stormed the Rafah camp after losing 13 soldiers in Gaza ambushes last week, forged ahead on Thursday. Troops pushed into the Rafah districts of Brazil and As-Salam, on the border with Egypt, where the army says it is hunting tunnels used to smuggle weapons for a Palestinian revolt since 2000. An overnight helicopter strike near an olive grove killed at least three militants and wounded two others, witnesses said. Medics said the remains of two other men were found, completely torn apart in what looked like another missile attack. The army said it struck gunmen planting bombs.
International outrage rose to a crescendo on Wednesday when Israeli tanks and helicopters fired toward protesters demanding aid. Medics said 10 Palestinians were killed and more than 50 hurt, many of them youths. The army put the death toll at seven. Troops said they did not aim to hit the rally, but tank fire intended to repel protesters might have caused casualties. Rooters edited out the rest of the statement that âthe tank shell may have triggered explosives set by the Paleosâ.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 3:43:40 AM ||
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A Christian preacher who was allegedly kidnapped by Islamic hardliners was recovered from the residence of a Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal member of the National Assembly, according to a Capital Police official on Wednesday. Balochistan provincial Police Officer Dr Shoaib Saddle contacted his federal counterpart Fayyaz Turo and told him about the kidnapping by an unidentified Islamic group of Wilson Fazal, a Christian priest in the city of Quetta. Capital Police parties were given the task of recovering the abducted Christian preacher. Police officials approached several priests who came to Islamabad to protest against the gang rape of a Christian girl at Narowal.
After getting a tip-off, police officials rushed to Parliament Lodges and recovered Mr Fazal from the room of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal Member of the National Assembly Asia Nasir, Capital Police Additional Superintendent of Police Asim Gulzar told Daily Times. However Mr Rafique, Ms Nasirâs father, called the kidnapping âfakeâ and said secret agencies were trying to malign the MMAâs image. Meanwhile, Mr Fazal claimed that he had received a threatening letter from an unidentified Islamic group urging him to stop preaching Christianity and convert to Islam or face dire consequences.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/20/2004 1:09:45 AM ||
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#1
Let's all try to figure this out.
Asia Nasir is a woman who lives in Islamabad. In her room there was a Christian priest, Wilson Fazal, who had disappeared in Quetta, Balochistan. The police in Quetta believed he had been kidnapped by some Islamic hardliners in Quetta. But now he's in Islamabad, in Asia Nasir's room.
Priest Wilson Fazal was associated with some other Christian priests who traveled to Islamabad to protest the gang rape of a Christian girl at Narowal (in Balochistan?).
A Balochistan police officer advised an Islamabad police officer to discuss Wilson Fazal's disappearance with the Christian priests who had traveled to Islamabad to protest the gang rape. After that discussion, the Islamabad police went straight to Asia Nasir's room and "recovered" Wilson Fazal from Asia Nasir's room.
Asia Nasir's room is part of the home of her father, Mr. Rafique.
Asia Nasir herself is a member of the National Assembly, representing the political party called Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA).
Asia Nasir's father, apparently also an MMA member, says the kidnapping was "fake," an attempt by secret agencies to malign the MMA.
After Wilson Fazal was "recovered" from Asia Nasir's room, he spoke of a letter from an Islamic group threatening him if he continued to preach Christianity.
What do you think?
Has Asia Nasir betrayed her Moslem father and helped to protect the Christian priest? Or is she still such a fanatic and evil Moslem woman that she has helped kidnap a Christian priest to prevent a protest against a Moslem gang rape of a Christian girl?
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 21:19 Comments ||
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At a closed meeting of the Russian State Duma, Interior Minister Rashid Nurgaliyev said President Vladimir Putin is increasing military presence in Chechnya, Duma Speaker Boris Gryzlov announced after the meeting, Gazeta.Ru wrote. Former FSB (secret service) director Nikolay Kovalev confirmed as he exited the meeting that Putin has assigned 1125 troops to Chechnya due to the exacerbation of the situation there, quoted Gazeta.Ru.
The secret meeting was held to hear Nurgaliyevâs report on the investigation of the May 9 assassination of Chechen President Akhmad Kadyrov. MPs were not allowed to bring in cell phones or other means of communications, and even the bathrooms adjacent to the parliament halls were blocked off by security guards. Post-meeting, Duma Speaker Boris Gryzlov said to the press that persons suspected of being accomplices to the assassination had been named in the report. He did not repeat these names. Other MPs, however, said they had heard no names named; rather, Nurgaliyev recounted possible scenarios already covered by the media. Some theories currently being investigated are that that Kadyrovâs security guards may have aided the assassins or that the construction workers at the stadium where he was murdered had been recruited to plant the explosives.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 12:20:12 AM ||
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construction workers at the stadium where he was murdered had been recruited to plant the explosives.
They attempted to question these men, but they had recently left the country to accept postions in Athens.
Posted by: B ||
05/20/2004 10:49 Comments ||
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Six persons of a family were shot dead by some unknown persons in a Fiaz Park Canal Link Road house, Mughalpura, in the wee hours of Friday. The victims were Naveed Haider, 28, his wife Sobia, 27, his sister Saima, 32, his brother-in-law Sajjad Haider, 33, Ghulam Fatama (seven-month-old daughter of Saima), and housemaid Sohnia, 11. Sobia was almost six-month pregnant, the family sources told The News. .... all the six victims received a single shot each in rear side of their skulls. ....
Sajjad and his wife Saima were running a school â Jafari Public Model School â for a long time in the same double-storey house consisting of three rooms on ground floor and two on upper floor. ... The killers reportedly wrote âkafirâ on walls of the car porch and TV lounge with red and blue spray paints. Before killing the six family members, the killers tied up the victimsâ hands with tapes and gagged their mouths. .... The news of the killings spread like a jungle fire in the area. Hundreds of locals gathered at the spot and chanted slogans against the government for loosing grip over terrorists. The infuriated mob blocked traffic on both lanes of Mughalpura leading to Jallo Morr and burnt tyres in protest. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 12:23:49 AM ||
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Forgive my ignorance on this one but what does 'kafir' mean?
#4
An "I'm feeling lucky" search for kafir on Google reveals the University of Southern California's "Islamic Glossary" definition: a person who refuses to submit himself to Allah (God), a disbeliever in God.
The term "Islam" itself means submission.
Hmmm... I looked at the definition of Islam in the same glossary and found this: Islam is the last and final religion to all mankind and to all generations irrespective of color, race, nationality, ethnic background, language, or social position.
Do you think USC really thinks that? Just wondering...
What do you expect? This "Devil's Dictionary" is from the USC Muslim Students Association, the same MSA (often funded by Saudi Arabia), who at other colleges, have had members arrested for support of terrorist groups. Europe isn't the only Western society with a Muslim fifth column.
Posted by: ed ||
05/20/2004 0:58 Comments ||
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#7
Islam is the last and final religion to all mankind and to all generations irrespective of color, race, nationality, ethnic background, language, or social position.
I got one thing to say about the above sentence.
"Better of dead than Moh-ham-med"
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 8:32 Comments ||
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#13
Note the 11 year old servant.
I wonder how much they paid for her how much she earned?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
05/20/2004 9:24 Comments ||
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#14
#10
"If your not a Muslim you have 3 choices (1)convert(2)slavery(dhimitude)(3)death."
Option 2 is offered only to Christian and Jews (people of the book, sons of pigs and monkeys). The rest such as Buddhists and Hindus are offered option 1 and 3
#15
I notice Gentle hasn't shown up to comment on this one.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
05/20/2004 10:23 Comments ||
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#16
Ah, the Religion of Peace(TM) strikes again. God is great, eh?
I'm toying with the idea of pulling out my Sheikh-of-Twenty-Names routine (did it yesterday for the first time) to show my disgust.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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#17
They must have been teaching some wicked secularist shit in that school to get that treatment. The good news is that the locals don't appear to be too cowed and went to the streets to protest.
#18
Psssst... Jungles generally don't burn very well.
Actually, during the dry season they burn quite well.
#15: The orderlies at whatever Mental Health Facility that Antiwar...er...Gentle was confined to, discovered that she was off her meds. The problem has been rectified.
#13: If she was paid at all, about $0.50 per day.
#17: I parsed the article to mean they were running a school for models. Definitely (notice the correct spelling) something that would drive the RoP faithful over the edge.
-AR
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
05/20/2004 11:54 Comments ||
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#19
USC is a football school. National Champions.
Really? I must have missed those playoffs. Oh, that's right, they don't have playoffs.
Posted by: Steve ||
05/20/2004 13:12 Comments ||
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#20
Actually, during the dry season they (jungles) burn quite well. It depends on what you classify as a jugle. True tropical jungles don't burn, much too wet. I live within a 100Km of the equator and I can assure there are no seasons in the sense you have seasons in temperate areas. It is hot and wet all the time. As you get away from the equator and rainfall becomes seasonal, jungles especially secondary growth can dry out enough to burn. Link
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/20/2004 18:45 Comments ||
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#21
I guess the madrassas wanted to eliminate the competition, couldn't have people learning anything that might help them make a living. They must think that Islam and an educated populace are not compatible. No wonder most Islamist countries are stuck in the seventh century.
#22
I know the deceased. they were innocent people and the schoo; was regular school for kids. Next day the complainent of the mass murder and elder brother of Naveed was also murdered.
American soldiers clashed Wednesday with Shiite militiamen in two cities south of the capital, killing at least eight of them, U.S. officials said. Mortars and rockets fell on widely scattered areas of the Iraqi capital. U.S. officials reported no American casualties during engagements in the Shiite holy cities of Karbala and Najaf, but the command said one 1st Infantry Division soldier was killed Tuesday during an ambush near Muqdadiyah northeast of Baghdad. U.S. military officials said the eight Shiite gunmen were killed in Karbala, 50 miles south of here, during scattered clashes between coalition forces and militiamen loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Most of the fighting took place around the Mukhaiyam mosque, which al-Sadr's forces had been using as a base. U.S. F-16 fighter jets flew overhead but did not fire, according to Capt. Noel Gorospe, a spokesman for the 1st Armored Division. A U.S. M1A1 main battle tank was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade late Wednesday but there were no casualties, the military said.
In Najaf, about 50 miles south of Karbala, strong explosions could be heard late Wednesday along with the rattle of machine gun fire. Fighters from al-Sadr's al-Mahdi Army were seen on the streets despite a call Tuesday by the premier Shiite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, for both the Americans and the militia to vacate the city.
Meanwhile, a mortar shell exploded Wednesday about 300 yards from the Baghdad Convention Center, where a court-martial hearing was under way for four U.S. soldiers accused in the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison. There were no casualties and the hearing continued without interruption. One of the four soldiers, Spc. Jeremy C. Sivits, pleaded guilty to four counts and was sentenced to a year in jail, reduction in rank and a bad conduct discharge. Bush told an Iraqi newspaper in an interview published Thursday that America intends to get to the bottom of the scandal over mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners so that the "whole world" will know who was responsible. Bush told the Baghdad daily Azzaman that the torture and sexual humiliation of prisoners "does not reflect the behavior of the United States and the American people." White House officials said Bush gave the interview Tuesday in Washington. Its publication in Arabic was delayed because of time zone differences. It was posted early Thursday on the newspaper's Web site.
Meanwhile, a projectile exploded Wednesday near a bridge leading to the Green Zone, igniting a fire. Blasts were also reported in southern Baghdad and near a former Iraqi security agency office. There was no report of casualties. Fighting in Karbala and Najaf has persisted despite demands from Shiite communities in Lebanon and Iran for the Americans to withdraw so as not to harm religious shrines, among the most sacred in Shia Islam.
If they were that important to the gunnies, they'd find someplace else to stage their insurrection, wouldn't they?
In Tehran, tens of thousands of Iranians protested the U.S. military presence in the Iraqi holy cities. Some of them hurled stones and firebombs at the British Embassy. The protest was the largest in a series of demonstrations this week against U.S. moves in Iraq. Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Wednesday that the fighting in Iraq will "bring America closer, step by step, to the precipice," the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported. "They (Americans) thought they could easily win this complicated game. But definitely they won't win. They will experience the bitter taste of defeat," IRNA quoted Khamenei as saying.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 12:09:20 AM ||
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Americans in a Holy Place! An apollogy maybe, a face saving gesture, mea culpa, or how about a kiss of the ringed finger. Yes, thats it, kneel and kiss the Holy Mans finger.
Don't laugh, could work. The bended knee may stop the hurling of stones. Ouch, stop that!
#5
If they were that important to the gunnies, they'd find someplace else to stage their insurrection, wouldn't they?
This simple hypocrisy sums up all that is wrong. We are confronted with those that deliberately desecrate their own holiest shrines who then howl with indignation as someone makes a concerted effort to dislodge them.
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has nothing to lose at this point. He is faced with both the crumbling of Guardian Council authority at home and increased pressure from abroad (in the form of US presence in Iraq). Little surprise that he is doing all in his power to undermine the liberation of Iraq.
America may well need to persist in Iraq if only to obtain the forward base necessary for an offensive against Iran. Their nuclear weapons program is one of the most urgent agenda items for all western nations. True to form, Europe's ostrich-like posture on Iran merely makes it all the more vital that America does not abandon any application of pressure upon the Iranian mullahs.
Even if it is only America that perceives it, Iran represents one of the biggest threats to global stability, bar none. One single nuclear exchange in the Middle East or a launch into Europe could stall all global economic progress for some time to come. The prospect of terrorists obtaining nuclear material from the Iranians only magnifies this danger.
At some point the gloves may need to come off with Sadr, if only to demonstrate America's determination not to let Shiite religious sensibilities interfere with obtaining actual stability. Iran has willingly contributed to the hostilities in Fallujah, they must now confront the possibility of having knowingly assisted in the ruination of their most holy places of worship.
Again, at some point, Iran must have the error of their ways spelled out to them in no uncertain terms.
The Ahmadzai tribal Lashkar on Wednesday completed its hunt for foreigners in the Azam Warsak area and set ablaze a house of an al-Qaeda sympathiser in Shulam, some seven kilometres from here. Action against Muhammad Khan was taken due to his sympathies for the ousted Taliban and al-Qaeda men, whom he calls "holy warriors". He also opposed the use of force against them. Addressing tribesmen after demolition of the house, chief of the 36-member committee, Allah Khan Wazir, warned that resistance to the Lashkar would not be tolerated. He said similar punitive actions would be taken against those creating hurdles in the way of the tribal force. He said those found sheltering foreign militants would face destruction of their houses, a fine of one million rupees and expulsion from the tribal territory. The 4000-strong Ahmadzai tribal Lashkar has completed hunt for aliens in Azam Warsak and its surroundings and is likely to start operation in Shakai area on Thursday (today). A militant commander, Nek Muhammad, who along with other supporters of al-Qaeda in the region was pardoned under Shakai Deal on April 24, has announced to resist the Lashkar. Nek and his supporters believe that registration of foreigners was not part of the Shakai Agreement. The Lashkar was formed after talks between the authorities and tribesmen representing their foreign comrades over registration failed. Both sides now accuse each other of violating the Shakai peace deal.
Meanwhile, unconfirmed reports say that the NWFP Governor, Iftikhar Hussain Shah, is likely to visit Wana, regional headquarters of South Waziristan tribal agency, this week. AFP Adds: Hundreds of armed tribesmen scoured villages along Pakistanâs border with Afghanistan on Wednesday in a fresh hunt for al-Qaeda-linked foreigners who have refused government demands to formally register themselves, officials said. "The Lashkar is now in action," military spokesman Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan told AFP.
"The government standing offer of an amnesty has gone unheeded as no foreigner responded to register with the authorities to seek permission to live peacefully in the region," a local administration official said. Residents said militia leaders addressed several gatherings in Azam Warsak and Razagai areas near Wana, the main town in South Waziristan tribal district where the foreign fugitives have taken refuge since late 2001. "They went to these towns asking residents if they knew of the presence of foreigners in their areas," resident Baqai Khan told AFP, speaking by telephone from Wana. "The Lashkar was told that no foreigner was hiding there."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/20/2004 12:06:37 AM ||
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"Our work here is done. Now it's Miller time, boyz. Last one back to the hutment buys the first round."
The Afghan Interior Ministry said that two of the five men recently arrested in southern Afghanistanâs Kandahar Province are bodyguards of Mullah Mohammad Omar, the former leader of the Taliban regime, Afghanistan Television reported on 18 May. Interior Ministry sources said that Afghan police arrested the men in Kandaharâs Panjwai District as they allegedly attempted to transport a large number of assault rifles inside an oil tanker. The two suspected bodyguards, who are reportedly brothers, have been identified as Mullah Mohammad Hasan and Mullah Abdul Hakim. It is not clear when the arrests took place. Mullah Omar disappeared from the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar sometime in early December 2001
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 12:04:38 AM ||
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#1
"We are merely simple holy men, effendi, simple holy men on a, er...pilgrimage. Yassss, carrying with us the tools of our, ummmm...ministry."
In an editorial, in the Kuwaiti daily Al-Siyassa, editor-in-chief Ahmad Jarallah wrote: "Dr. Buthayna Shaâban, who is ârevoltedâ by the torture of the Iraqis, should be the last to express her revulsion â because the kinds of torture carried out in the prisons of the regime of which she is a part and in whose services she acts are too numerous to count. No atrocity surpasses the kinds of torment and torture [in the Syrian regime] except those that the former East German ruler [Erich] Honecker [used] against his political rivals, and those by [Nicolae] Ceausescu against his citizens in RomaniaâŠ
"We have gone overboard in our talk of the Abu Ghureib torture scandal⊠We tried to unite the world against the perpetrators of the torture at Abu Ghureib. None has dared acknowledge that the U.S. behaved properly in uncovering [this] scandal, for having sufficient courage to apologize. It could have remained silent, or denied it â as is the custom of some Arab regimes that torture, assassinate, bury alive, rip out fingernails, and dissolve [people] in pits of acid, and appear before the world like innocent children with angelsâ wings, using denial and falsehood."
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Abd Al-Rahman Al-Rashed, former editor-in-chief of the London Arabic-language daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, wrote: ".... A crime is not a crime unless it is committed by a foreigner. Torture is [carried out] by the Arabs with the consent of the Arab press, which is always silent about it. When someone tries to bring this up, he is accused of damaging the Arabsâ good name, and of acting for the Zionist camp!
"No one is acquitting the Americans of what a group of jailers did to Iraqi prisoners. It is a crime. .... Our media raised a ruckus about a hate-filled [American] soldier who urinated on an [Iraqi] prisoner. [But] the thieves of [our] food and medicines urinated on an entire nation, and the [Arab] media doesnât care about their crimes; it awarded medals to some, and kept silent about the others. ...... the Arab media close their eyes on the issue of hundreds of Arab prisons and the actions of thousands of Arab jailers over many years â and exclusively focus on the Abu Ghureib case because the jailer was American.
"This reminds me of a sight that shocked me during a visit in Tunis with my colleague Mr. Salleh Al-Qallab. [11] We visited the leadership of the Palestinian Authority, which was situated there at that time. In the office of one official sat a Palestinian with a sad face. During a conversation [with him], he said he had recently been released from an Arab prison, after years of living in one of the dark basements through which sewage flows. The man stood and showed us his foot with a defect. He related that the [jailers] used to chain him tightly, which wore away his flesh and broke the bone. I asked him, âWhy donât you sue for this crime, or why arenât you exposing it to the media?â He answered: âWe donât want to make the situation worse.â"
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Columnist Ahmad Al-Rabâi wrote in the London Arabic-language daily Al-Sharq Al Awsat:"Since the Abu Ghureib prison crime was exposed, the biggest discussion group in the Arab world has been [discussing] human rights, and this is a fine thing. The subject of human rights, freedom, and the state of the prisons has taken over every conversation [in the Arab world], after many years when the Arabs talked little about the value of the individual and the severity of the torture and killing. .... Millions of Arabs do not know about ... the prisons and detention centers in their countries. Only rarely do we hear of an Arab group demanding the release of prisoners arrested for expressing an opinion, or of an association that wants to visit an [Arab] prison. Furthermore, this is the first time that the Arabs have seen television cameras inside the prisons. .... The one who built Abu Ghureib prison is the dictatorship of the Arab leader named Saddam Hussein; the one who exposed this prison is an American television station. Had [these secrets] been exposed, we could [also] have known about the thousands tortured and killed in Abu Ghureib over the past 30 years, about whom no one knew or asked.
"I remember that after the liberation of Kuwait [in 1991], the torture instruments used by Saddamâs army were collected in one place and pictures of them were published. We tried to cry to some of the Arabs: âLook, [this is] a serious crime!â But no one listened. It would be interesting to know how many Abu Ghureibs exist the length and breadth of the Arab world. [It would also be] interesting to know the number of people tortured and killed in secret, and the number of those who left prison with the marks of torture on every corner of their bodies, but who preferred to hold their tongues out of fear of death."
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Syrian columnist Hayan Nayouf wrote in the liberal Internet daily Elaph: "After the scandal of the torture of Iraqi prisoners by American and British soldiers, the Arab media handled this affair in a way arousing ridicule, proving that the Arab media and intellectuals possess everything but objectivity, transparency, and disclosure of the truth and the facts. ... The American president, the president of the most powerful country in the world and the most developed with regard to science, art, culture, and democracy, apologized for the deeds of the American soldiers, and all the Americans also apologized for this shameful deed. And then the Arab intellectuals came, with their mocking, idiotic, and illogical media, and ridiculed this apology.
"The question arises whether Saddam or any other Arab leader [ever] apologized. Did Saddam apologize to the Iraqi people for burying a million Iraqis in the ground, for expelling millions of Iraqis, for murdering innocents in his prisons, for his crimes in neighboring countries, for invading Kuwait, and for murdering the Kuwaiti prisoners?
"Enough of your foolishness, Arabs! Hundreds of Kuwaiti prisoners fell victim to Saddamâs crimes. Where were the Arab satellite channels, and why did no Iraqi official apologize? Anyone who reads the Arab media [can get] an attack of madness. Had it not been for American democracy and the uncovering of the torture scandal by the American media, would the Arab media [ever] had heard about it? [Why?] Because [the Arab media] is preoccupied [with encouraging] ethnic [discord] and incitement to violence and terrorism!"
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/20/2004 12:01:01 AM ||
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#1
This Guy Abdul Abu whatever is a fool. Islam forbids bad. Only good. Muslims value the good manners and hospitality.
He should be gutted, by god, and left to die in the fields.
"What say you Abu?"
"Death to America, Lucky! Thank you for that Mr Lucky, you are such a gentleman. May I offer you some sweets, dainty puffs, you look so young, and fit, I love your hair, may I be at your service?"
#2
Interesting article, and these folks are editors/columnists - impressive. Someone gets it.
Does anyone know if we're doing a VOA into Iraq? That's what I'd put some cash into if I had the authority. Start an Arabic channel that actually tells about the true stuff going on. The average Arab would watch, whethed they'd admit it or not is something different.
#3
Lucky, you are being completely strange. Sheesh! What's wrong with you today? Reread the article.
Hayan Nayouf, Ahmad Al-Rabâi, Abd Al-Rahman Al-Rashed, and Ahmad Jarallah are THE GOOD GUYS. They are HEROES! They're telling it like it is--a very, very rare thing in the Moslem world. These men are incredibly brave to be telling the truth, when doing so may mean they will be assassinated by some stupid Islamic psuedo-man who deserves to die.
Kudos to them! And may they be kept safe from harm.
Interesting that we don't hear this kind of dissent against terrorism and support for America coming from the American press.
#5
My surprise meter just went straight off the scale. Could they be getting a clue?
It's a start, anyway, although Lord knows we've had plenty of false ones, usually because of Arab customs or something.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/20/2004 16:00 Comments ||
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#6
Not sarcastic at all. Abu speakes the mind set I hear from Arab journalist about Arab majority. This guy Ahmad puts his balls on the line, way to go. But I'm not ready to stand up and say, "hey they get it." Because until we saturate their minds the way their media saturates their minds, it's still a dirty, stinky, bloody hot war. I hate them!!!! Freaky thinkers!
#7
This is one of the best articles, that I've seen, to come from the Muslim world. It's gonna be wild then the most important thing we will have done in Iraq is simply apologize for our most grievous error. Think, what are we trying to do in Iraq? Bring democracy? Fugitibowdit! We're trying to enculturate(? Read: civilize) them. WE don't even have a democracy. We have a constitionally established rule of law. What makes it work, is our commitment to MAKE it work. The style of governance is not as important as the social compact. GWB showed one of our most important cultural values: the responsibility of those in authority. Name one other 'empire' whose leader takes the rap for the deeds of miscreants he's responsible for. That's mature stuff. Heck, the Democratic party doesn't even 'get' that. They actually believe that shucking the blame works in the long run.
Do I believe that the Islamic world is gonna adopt our values? Not in this lifetime. But at least they've seen what we're made of. And some of them have noticed the difference.
Posted by: scott ||
05/21/2004 0:25 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
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