A senior Yemeni Army commander was wounded in fresh clashes with followers of the rebel cleric Hussein Badruddin Al-Houthi in the north of the country, military sources said yesterday. Brig. Gen. Hamid Al-Qushaibi, who leads the military field operations to crush Al-Houthi's rebellion in the northern Saada province, was badly injured in a battle on Wednesday with armed supporters of the radical cleric, the sources said. Al-Qushaibi was hit by a bullet in his right kidney and was airlifted to Sanaa for treatment, a Defense Ministry source told Arab News on condition of anonymity. The sources said 10 soldiers were also killed and more than 40 wounded in renewed fighting that erupted when military troops raided fortifications of the rebels in Jabal Salman mountain in Marran district of Saada, about 250 km north of Sanaa. Local officials in Saada said about 30 followers of Al-Houthi, commanded by his close aide Abdullah Al-Rizami were also killed in the clashes in the mountain, the rebel's last stronghold.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 1:25:32 PM ||
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10 brave muslim soldiers killed in the war against Islamism and terror, and one general wounded. A moment of silence.
One policeman was killed and three others wounded in clashes with militants in a town northeast of Riyadh, a Saudi Interior Ministry official said Friday. The unidentified official, quoted by the official Saudi Press Agency, also said a number of suspects in Thursday's shooting were arrested. Two police patrols checking a report that armed suspects were in a house in al-Baradah, 250 miles northeast of Riyadh, were fired on by suspects in a vehicle as they approached the house, the official said, adding that a later search of the house revealed large amounts of explosives and weapons. No more details were available. Al-Arabiya TV reported Friday that one of the three wounded police officers was in critical condition.
Thursday's clashes came a day after the surrender of a wanted militant identified by Saudi authorities as Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz al-Moqrin. Al-Moqrin was accused in a May attack in the eastern city of Khobar that killed 22 people, most of them foreign oil industry workers.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:59:35 PM ||
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this isnt an Al moqrin who is high up in local AQ, is it? damn these names are hard to follow. Of course the practice of recruiting cousins, nephews, and tribe members adds to the similarity of names.
#3
RIYADH - Saudi security forces Friday killed a suspected militant wanted on security-related charges in the northern town of Buraidah, where a security officer was gunned down the previous night, an official said. "I can confirm from preliminary information that one wanted suspect was killed today in a clash with security forces," said interior ministry spokesman Mansur al-Turki. Turki said the suspect was hunted down during clashes Friday morning as security forces chased militants following the previous night's shootout. He said further details on Friday's operation would be released soon, alluding to a number of casualties and arrests among suspects.
That didn't take long. Either the Saudi cops are getting better or the gunnies are getting dumber. Or this guy had nothing to do with it and was just handy.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/03/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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A U.S. Army soldier was convicted of trying to aid al Qaeda by detailing ways to destroy U.S. weapons and kill soldiers to undercover agents, army officials said on Friday. Spc. Ryan Anderson, 27, was convicted on all five counts of attempted treason and related charges by a panel of nine officers in a court-martial that concluded on Thursday. Defense attorneys had argued at the start of the court martial on Monday in Fort Lewis, 50 miles south of Seattle, that Anderson was filled with grand visions of his own importance that led him to lie and seek out representatives of al Qaeda, blamed for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - Sorry, wrong answer. But thank you for playing.
The vote is kept secret, although only a two-thirds vote by the nine-member panel is needed for a conviction. Anderson, a convert to Islam, faces up to life in prison. Sentencing deliberations were ongoing, military officials said, and the base commander would also have to affirm the verdict. Anderson, a tank loader, was scheduled to ship out to Iraq when he began posting messages on extremist Muslim Web sites seeking to contact al Qaeda. He was caught in a sting operation in which he was videotaped blasting U.S. leaders over the war. Anderson, also known as Amir Abdul Rashid, sent instant text messages and e-mail to undercover agents to try to aid enemy forces, prosecuting attorneys said, providing information such as the caliber of a bullet needed to penetrate a tank's armor.
Kansas is beautiful this time of year, the sun glinting off the barbed wire....
Posted by: Steve ||
09/03/2004 3:29:34 PM ||
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I think one behind the ear should do the trick.
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/03/2004 16:55 Comments ||
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When he's lying in the corner of his cell with part of his intestines dripping off another mans penis he can say, "Wow I made a difference, Allah Akbar!â
Good Times, good times...
Posted by: Big Sarge ||
09/03/2004 17:33 Comments ||
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#5
Anderson, also known as Amir Abdul Rashid
hopefully he'll also be known as "the sure thing in cell 249"
#6
Anderson, a convert to Islam, faces up to life in prison. Sentencing deliberations were ongoing, military officials said, and the base commander would also have to affirm the verdict
Which means it then goes through a review (to make sure procedure was followed)and then the appeals process, depending on how far the defense wants to take it. Considering none of the usual suspects jumped on the bandwagon, Anderson could be in Leavenworth in time for the first snow.
As President Bush touted his record in the war on terror Thursday night at Madison Square Garden, another front in the terrorism fight was playing out nearby in the federal holding cell of a Pakistani American named Mohammed Junaid Babar. Babar, who grew up in Queens, is a cooperating witness in an unfolding investigation of what authorities say may be a New York-based "sleeper cell" involved in Al Qaeda efforts to launch attacks in the U.S., perhaps as the Nov. 2 election approaches. The investigation remains nearly invisible to the public, and federal authorities and defense lawyers have refused to discuss it. But unsealed court documents show that Babar, 29, has admitted meeting with senior Al Qaeda members in remote South Waziristan in Pakistan this year as part of a scheme to smuggle money, night-vision goggles and other equipment to the terrorist network.
On June 3, he secretly pleaded guilty to charges of providing material support to a terrorist organization and agreed to cooperate in ongoing investigations. "I understood that the money and supplies that I had given to Al Qaeda was supposed to be used in Afghanistan against U.S. or international forces," Babar told the court. Authorities believe three of the men Babar met with were involved in plotting attacks in London and perhaps the United States, using surveillance gathered during visits to New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C., in 2000 and 2001.
Babar's case is by no means isolated. Court documents and interviews show that U.S. authorities are conducting at least a dozen significant investigations throughout the nation into suspected support cells or operational cells of Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas and affiliate organizations. These investigations and dozens of preliminary probes show the extent to which Al Qaeda maintains an active support network in the United States that is linked to its leaders on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, its global network of cells and potentially to ongoing plots here and overseas, according to senior U.S. counterterrorism officials.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:35:35 PM ||
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Less than a month after the military killed Tahir Alonto, leader of the dreaded Pentagon kidnap gang, and 15 of its members in Maguindanao, government forces shot dead his number-two man on Thursday night also in Maguindanao. Lt. Col. Buenaventura Pascual, Army spokesman, identified the slain successor of Alonto as Kurato Tapuyak alias Anton, who reportedly took over the leadership of one of the most notorious kidnap-for-ransom gang in Mindanao, when Alonto was killed on August 13.
Pacual said troops from the Army's 604th Infantry Brigade under Col. Jerry Jalandoni encountered Tapuyak and 17 other armed members of the Pentagon gang in barangay Kayaga, Buluan, Maguindanao. Pascual, quoting reports from the field, said Jalandoni's group and members of the Tacurong City police sighted Tapuyak and his men in the boundary of Datu Paglas and Buluan. Pascual said a brief firefight ensued, after which, members of the gang fled leaving behind the body of Tapuyak. On August 13, two Air Force MG-520 attack helicopters bombed the suspected lair of Alonto and his men in sitio Tatak, Midpandan, Sultan Kudarat Pendatun, Maguindanao to flush out suspected members of the Pentagon gang, killing Alonto and 15 of his men. Ground troops from the Marines and the elite Scout Rangers were later sent to conduct clearing operations in the area. The military said earlier that the separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) played a key role in the neutralization of Alonto by supplying information about their whereabouts.
Sold 'em out, did they?
Alonto's lair is located in an area where the MILF has a significant presence. The MILF and the government earlier signed a cease-fire agreement while negotiators are crafting a political settlement. Eid "Lipless Eddie" Kabalu, MILF spokesman, said this is part of the front's commitment to help the government against organized crime and terrorism. Kabalu confirmed that the MILF provided the military information on Alonto's whereabouts.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 1:11:35 PM ||
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Geez, i read the headline, and I figure the FBI and the Anti-neocons at the CIA are REALLY playing rough = PR assault on Franklin, Feith, Chalabi, and AIPAC aint enough, now theyre killing people. Glad to see it was about PI.
#2
KfR (Kidnap for Ransom) in the Philippines is some very serious business. Too often, local authorities are in on the action which makes pursuit and interdiction nearly impossible. Notice how military troops were used to track down the perps and not police.
Common targets are wealthy Chinese or foreign nationals and their children. All of which serves to discourage offshore investment and development of existing businesses. This has had a really negative impact on the national economy as it also supresses tourism. The Pentagon gang was one of the biggest KfR groups and this takedown of their leadership is a very good thing.
The elder sister of slain Abu Sayyaf spokesman Abu Sabaya was apprehended Friday morning by combined government troops in Isabela City, Basilan. Reports reaching Camp Crame identified the arrested suspect as Satra Abdullah Up Tilao, 40 years old, and was arrested by members of the Army's 103rd Infantry Brigade and the Basilan Provincial Police around 9 a.m. in Tabuk village as arresting agents were armed with search warrant issued by Judge Loriel Pahimana for charges of kidnapping, purchasing and financial logistical requirements.
Tilao is now under the custody of the Isabela City police station, who, according to reports, was involved during the height of the Basilan hostage crisis and supported members of the bandit group by providing food and financial support. Tilao is said to be the "ate" of Abu Sabaya, who was believed to be killed during a sea encounter with government troops in Subico, Zamboanga del Norte on June 1 of last year. Abu Sayyaf's top honcho Khadaffy Janjalani is still at large and is believed to be hiding in the jungles of Sultan Kudarat.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:47:31 PM ||
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The three-day hostage siege at a school in southern Russia ended in chaos and bloodshed Friday, after witnesses said Chechen militants set off bombs and Russian commandos stormed the building. Hostages fled in terror, many of them children who were half-naked and covered in blood. Officials estimated the death toll at more than 200.
Early Saturday, 531 people remained hospitalized, including 283 children — 92 of the youngsters in "very grave" condition, health officials said.
Sixty-two hours after the hostage drama began during a celebration marking the first day of the school year, the Russian government said resistance had ended. Valery Andreyev, Russia's Federal Security Service chief in the region, said 10 Arabs were among 27 militants who were killed. The ITAR-Tass news agency, citing unidentified security sources, reported the hostage-taking was the work of Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, who had al-Qaeda backing.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 9:20:45 PM ||
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The girl in the picture at the link is about my stepson's age. I saw other pictures at pravda.ru and at Logic and Sanity showing kids covered in blood, looking like they'd stared into hell. I wish every parent in the US and Europe could see these pictures so that they FINALLY realize that this is a total civilizational war. Wake up! Our children are at stake!
Posted by: Jonathan ||
09/03/2004 23:06 Comments ||
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15:22 All hostages have been taken out of school
According to the latest report by Interfax, all hostages have been taken out of the school building in Beslan. Scores have been rushed to hospitals. //Interfax
15:08 Up to 200 Russia hostages in hospital - agencies
Up to 200 wounded hostages in the Russian school siege have been taken to local hospitals, Itar-Tass news agency reported on Friday. It quoted local police as saying that others with more serious wounds were taken to the regional capital Vladikavkaz for treatment. It gave no figures for those. //Reuters
15:03 Rebels try to break out — Tass
Some rebels who took hundreds hostage in a southern Russian school tried to break out on Friday, heading for a rail junction in the town of Beslan, Tass news agency quoted officials as saying. Reuters correspondent Richard Ayton saw dozens of civilian cars converging on the school. Ambulances and private cars evacuated wounded while medics tended to the wounded. "I've seen drivers being stopped and their cars commandeered," he reported. //Reuters
14:54 Special forces blast way into Beslan school
Loud blasts and intense gunfire broke out on Friday around a southern Russian school where an armed gang had taken hundreds of children hostage. "There is an intense battle going on," Reuters correspondent Oliver Bullough reported from the scene. "It sounded like someone was dropping something huge from the sky onto a huge sheet of plastic." Tass news agency said special forces had blown a hole in a school building to let hostages escape. Bullough, around 150 metres (yards) from the school, saw three armoured personel carriers with heavily armed soldiers on board approaching the school. //Reuters
14:39 Paramedics with stretchers enter Russian school
Paramedics carrying stretchers on Friday entered the Russian school where hundreds of children and adults had been held by armed militants, witnesses said. They went into the premises in Beslan, southern Russia, after Russian forces took control and rebels fled amid gunfire and loud explosions. Ekho Moskvy radio reported that 158 children had been taken to hospital. //Reuters
14:18 Most children alive,5 rebels dead—media
Most of the children taken hostage in a southern Russian school are alive, Interfax news agency quoted a security official as saying on Friday. "Those children who remained in the school, in general, did not suffer. The ones who suffered were the children in the group which ran from the school and on whom the fighters opened fire," the official was quoted as saying. NTV television reported that five of the armed gang which seized the school on Wednesday had been killed. //Reuters
14:17 Soldiers fight rebels to end Russian school siege
Russian soldiers battled Chechen separatists on Friday to end a two-day-old school siege as naked children ran out screaming amid explosions and machinegun fire. A Reuters correspondent saw soldiers carrying children away from the school, some covered in blood, as military helicopters circled overhead and ambulances ferried wounded hostages away, all to the sound of continuous gunfire.
Witnesses said troops had entered the school, whose roof had partly collapsed, according to officials quoted by Interfax. The Tass news agency reported that some 40 children had been evacuated from the school by 1:50 p.m. (0950 GMT). Interfax news agency reported that some of the group of hostage-takers, believed to number about 40, had tried to break out through crowds of frantic relatives waiting near the school as Russian special forces moved in.
Others reported soldiers firing on fleeing gunmen. Officials had said some 500 people were being held in the school in North Ossetia, near Chechnya, but released hostages said the number could be nearer to 1,500, lying on top of each other in increasingly desperate conditions. Children, some half-naked, drank heavily from bottles of water after two days without drink. Some children lay on stretchers.
It was unclear what had triggered the battle, a few hours after Russia insisted it would not resort to force to free the children, parents and teachers being held for a third day without food or water. Alexander Dzasokhov, president of the province of North Ossetia, said the 40 or so masked gunmen were demanding an independent Chechnya, the first clear link between them and the decade-long separatist rebellion in the neighbouring province. //Reuters
13:48 Hostage-takers try to force their way through crowd
Gunmen who took hundreds hostage in a southern Russian school tried on Friday to break out through crowds of relatives nearby, Interfax news agency reported. The agency reported that security forces fired on the gunmen as a three-day hostage siege reached a violent and bloody climax. A group of children stripped to their underwear could be seen on TV footage fleeing the scene. A bleeding, unconscious child was carried away on a stretcher, a Reuters witness said. //Reuters
13:27 Soldiers carry children out of Russia siege school
Russian soldiers carried away children rescued from a school in southern Russia where an armed group is holding hundreds of people captive, a Reuters witness said on Friday. Russian news agencies reported that a group of hostages had escaped from the school amid a heavy gunfire and explosions from the scene. //Reuters
13:26 Explosions and shooting at Russian school siege
Explosions resounded and automatic fire broke out on Friday near the Russian school where hundreds of children and adults were being held by an armed group, a Reuters correspondent at the scene said. Russian news agencies said a group of hostages had escaped, and the corresdpondent saw soldiers carrying children away from the school.
A few hours earlier, Russia had insisted it would not resort to force to free hundreds of children, parents and teachers being held for a third day without food or water by gunmen demanding independence for rebel Chechnya. Officials said some 500 people were being held in the school in North Ossetia, near Chechnya, but released hostages said the number could be nearer 1,500, lying on top of each other in increasingly desperate conditions.
Alexander Dzasokhov, president of the province of North Ossetia, said the 40 or so masked gunmen were demanding an independent Chechnya, the first clear link between them and the decade-long separatist rebellion in the neighbouring province. But he tried to reassure hundreds of fraught parents who spent the night near the school in the town of Beslan, telling reporters: "I tell you frankly and honestly ... the option of force is not being considered."
Reports from some of the women and children released on Thursday painted a grim picture. "You know, there aren't 350 people (the previous official number) in there, but 1,500 in all. People are lying one on top of another," Zalina Dzandarova, a 27-year-old woman, told the daily Kommersant.
One unnamed woman freed on Thursday told Izvestia that during the night children occasionally began to cry: "Then the fighters would fire in the air to restore quiet. In the morning they told us they would not give us anything more to drink because the authorities were not ready to negotiate. "When children went to the toilet, some tried to drink from the tap. The fighters stopped them straight away."
Dzasokhov said the captors had made their demands in talks on Thursday with Ruslan Aushev, a moderate former leader of nearby Ingushetia province, who has taken on a mediating role. "The demands relayed to Aushev yesterday ... were that Chechnya must be an independent state," he said. //Reuters
11:52 Force not planned to end Russia siege-local leader
Security forces are not planning to use force to end a school siege in southern Russia where an armed group has taken at least 500 hostages, a regional leader said on Friday. "I tell you frankly and honestly ... the option of force is not being considered," Alexander Dzasokhov, president of the province of North Ossetia, told journalists. The armed group is demanding independence for Chechnya, Dzasokhov also said. //Reuters
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 3:49:57 PM ||
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Taliban-ally Gulbuddin Hekmatyar urged Afghans to boycott next month's presidential elections, saying the candidates were representatives of the United States and its ally Britain. "Boycott the Afghan elections because the candidates are representatives of (U.S. President George W) Bush and (British Prime Ministe Tony) Blair," the renegade warlord said in an audio tape aired by Arabic Al Jazeera television on Wednesday. "Your country is again under foreign occupation... Do not accept anything but expelling the occupier and establishing God's law in your country and ending the reign of this agent government in Afghanistan," he added.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 3:21:50 PM ||
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GH was a pain in the butt during the entire Soviet stay in AF. He and his folks took $$ and weapons from everyone and spent most of their time fighting AF rivals, rather than the Soviets. After the war, he openly denounced Massoud of the Northern Alliance and sided with the Taliban and OBL. This dude needs to die.
Two rebels killed an Indian soldier Friday and barricaded themselves in a mosque where they were believed to be holding two girls, police said. Police surrounded the shrine at Sheendara near Poonch, 240 kilometers (150 miles) northwest of the winter capital Jammu, police official S.M. Sahai said. The rebels opened fire, killing an Indian soldier. Reinforcements were called in and the mosque cordoned off, Sahai said. He said the militants were believed to be bravely holding two local girls as human shields to try to prevent a raid on the mosque. "Sporadic firing is still going on," Sahai added.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 3:15:12 PM ||
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Gentle-men? Any comments? Or is Friday an off day?
An apparent would-be Palestinian suicide bomber was killed by his own explosives after he was shot by Israeli soldiers near the Gaza Strip's Karni crossing, sources on both sides said.
[Bang!] "Stop or we'll shoot!"
[KABOOM!]
Nice shot, Abner.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 3:04:27 PM ||
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No virgins for you. You did not complete your mission.
#4
New Mark 13 electronic synthetic voice instruction explosive suicide vest:
You have strapped on the Mark 13 suicide vest. It combines all the features of the previous model, including a more powerful explosive, better schrapnel, a close and stylish fitting form for better concealment, and an electronic detonation system that is hardened to radio waves and EMP countermeasures. By strapping on this belt you have activated the electronics and mechanical interlock package, thus you have acknowledged that you agree to the mission and have been fully briefed as to the details of this mission. If you agree to the terms of this mission, say the word "Yes."
Uh, yes.
That is not a recognized response. If you agree to the terms of this mission, say the word "Yes."
Yyyyyyess.
That is not a recognized response. If you agree to the terms of this mission, say the word "Yes."
NO! This is a bunch of crap! I want out, now!
That is not a recognized response. This is the third non-recognizable answer, so, in the words of the Great Satan sport baseball, three strikes and you are out. This Mark 13 Electronic explosive vest will self-destruct in 5 seconds. 5...4...3....2....1.....
Kaboom!!!!!!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/03/2004 17:38 Comments ||
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#5
Good. Glad one of these fuckers are dead. Can you tell that I don't give a flying shit about this piece of scum.
Can you also tell that I have read about the carnage in Russia and am *not* about to take any shit any more?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/03/2004 19:13 Comments ||
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#6
This could be a planned event. Few suicide bombers are "on their own" during these missions. If there's any question whether the bomber will carry out the mission, the belt can be rigged to either detonate immediately when the bomber sets the timer (ten min is usual in a vehicle or backpack bomb), or the bomb can be remote detonated by a third party.
Picked up a few ideas from their brothers in Chechnya, did they?
Two makeshift rockets fired by Palestinian militants from the northern Gaza Strip landed on the southern Israeli town of Sderot on Friday but caused no injuries, police sources said. The rockets fell near a local school and also failed to cause any damage. The attack was claimed in a phone call to AFP's offices in Gaza by the Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella Palestinian militant organisation.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 3:03:24 PM ||
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They stopped going for military because it was too painful. They stopped going for adults because they could build walls. Who will they go after once the children catch on? Themselves, I hope.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/03/2004 15:08 Comments ||
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Mrs. Davis,
My bet would be on themselves once the wall in finished and they have their much sought-after defacto palistinian state.
They are addicted to murder and killing -- they can't stop.
Rat toad sonofabitching scum of the earth slimy vicious bastards...
"Among those terrorists destroyed in Beslan there are Arabs and one black, reported the FSB chief for North Ossetia Valery Andreev on the Rossiya channel..."
There's a picture of the black guy up on the link, if it's not too busy...
"The New York Times reports that there were 40 gunmen, consisting of Chechens, Ingush, and one Ossetian..."
The colored guy was was the Ossetian, no doubt...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 2:15:13 PM ||
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Putin, I don't trust you further than I could throw you, but on this one, I support whatever you have in mind. And I hope it's something deviously creative. This is the ideological Elbe.
Posted by: Matt ||
09/03/2004 14:29 Comments ||
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#2
What's gonna happen will be that the Russers will retaliate against the Chechens, at which point all the pinheads in the world will howl about their brutality.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 14:39 Comments ||
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#3
Works for me.
Posted by: Matt ||
09/03/2004 14:40 Comments ||
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#4
Let them do something effective, off Basayev, or or follow the trail beyond the borders of Russia. If all they do is level more of Grozhny, with tactics that take no regard for civilian life, I wont howl, but i sure wont get mad at the pinheads - when Russia continues to take the pinhead line toward Israelis whose tactics at their worst arent one one hundreth as harsh as those of the Russians.
#5
Help the Russians, now. Retrain and reform their military. Pay them whatever sum they need to cease all support and aid to Iran. Time to get serious about helpnig the only nations that can seriously help us destroy the jihadists: Russia India and Turkey.
New century, new threat, new strategy and alliance system needed. Old Europe cannot help or harm us. Look east, Americans.
#6
"...at which point all the pinheads in the world will howl about their brutality."
I think after today there are a lot fewer pinheads in the world. This glimpse of hell will have opened quite a few eyes and minds to the truth of Islamic terrorism. It'll be much harder for people to blame America any more. And a lot of those who do will find their audience walking away in disgust. Whatever the crimes Russia's been guilty of in Chechnya are irrelevant. A major watershed for public opinion, IMO.
#8
Only if it's shown to the public. The MSM will bury it with Kerry's speech and Clinton's coronary here.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/03/2004 14:50 Comments ||
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#9
lex, I do wish you'd stop banging on about your new axis. Russia, India and Turkey - fair enough. But why on earth do you seem intent on alienating the Anglosphere and that half of Europe which has supported the US in the last few years? Not to mention Japan. America has friends the world over in this fight. Maybe you've been listening to John 'we ain't got no mates' Kerry (who is a fuckwit).
#11
who thinks the next time there is a UN resolution condemning Israel for actions in Gaza that pale beside what the Russians have done in Chechnya, that Russia will veto it? Or even abstain? This is not to justifiy one iota the actions of the jihadi murderers, who all deserve to die a painful death, or to deny that US cooperation with Russia is a good idea - but I have a hard time lumping in those who criticize Russia on human rights with those who criticize the US, UK, and Israel. Being the victim of terrorism DOESNT justify anything, especially to a government that is so hypocritical in condemning the far milder actions of other terror victims.
#12
Lh - if you're responding to me, I meant Russian crimes are irrelevant to public opinion. Not irrelevant full stop. Period. Whatever. Hopefully the Russians will accept Western military help in the Caucasus and in return be receptive to employing such novel Western notions as genuine democracy, rudimantary justice and discriminate slaughter there.
#13
BD - i was more responding to Fred in #2. I have full sympathy for the Russian people, and full desire to see the guilty slaughtered. I have a little problem with the equation of criticism of Putin and his tactics with those who criticize the tactics of the US, UK and Israel.
#14
lex you're on target. Not only the countries you mentioned, but the rest of the former Eastern Bloc, while not militarily powerful, have mostly embraced free-market reforms, flat taxes, and are working on reforms to make them MUCH closer to American ideals than any of the socialist swine in West Europe.
I would be proud to call them allies long before I would EVER trust a frenchman again.
Putin: Make them pay. We are with you.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 15:27 Comments ||
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#15
I don't know if lex has been banging that same point, Bulldog, but the way I read it is that we should get behind the new powers and obviously stick with "old" allies like Japan and the (few) West Euro nations who still have their heads on straight. I certainly don't think it's a good idea to shun our Coalition allies in any way, and I assume lex thinks the same.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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#16
I have a hard time lumping in those who criticize Russia on human rights with those who criticize the US, UK, and Israel. Being the victim of terrorism DOESNT justify anything, especially to a government that is so hypocritical in condemning the far milder actions of other terror victims.
Not sure what to make of this-would you mind rephrasing this LH? I don't get your meaning.
#17
have mostly embraced free-market reforms, flat taxes, and are working on reforms to make them MUCH closer to American ideals than any of the socialist swine in West Europe.
there you have it Bulldog, Putin may have been on Saddams payroll and may have helped the French do us in in Iraq, and is still pulling against us from the sidelines while Brits fight and die in Basra, and Russia may be selling nuke techology to the Iranians, and may blatantly hypocritical on Israel, but dammit, Blairs a SOCIALIST doncha know? I mean supporting some kind of progressive taxation, and using all that social justice rhetoric DOES make him a socialist right, even if the real left despises him for his third way policies. Hell even the right in Europe accepts having national health insurance, and that makes them like practically commie, dont it? Didnt Lenin say, first health insurance, then the world? I mean in Russia, you get sick, you stay sick, and isnt that more important than a pro-democracy foreign policy?
#18
Bulldog, no harm meant to our Anglosphere friends and to the Poles-- my apologies. And of course Israel is central to this approach. Israel is already stepping up its military cooperation with both India and Turkey.
But you're dead wrong about the Spaniards, who are probably (after the Greeks) the most virulently anti-American nation in Europe, and the Italians as well. We should not confuse the bravery of an Aznar with support that is forged either in deep cultural and political sympathy or else cold convergence of interests.
There is no reason to think that postmodern, Israelophobic, rapidly aging continental Euros in Spain or Italy or anywhere else west of the Elbe will rally to our cause. There is every reason to think that clever and diligent diplomacy, supported by every carrot we can provide, will convince a generation of hardheaded, realpolitiker elites in Turkey, India and Russia to work closely with us to crush the jihadists.
Our interests are solidly aligned in this regard, and of course we have far more to offer them-- not just militarily but commercially and, if we're clever about it, politically-- than the Iranians or the Chinese.
This is a different century and we need a much more radical and creative approach to our alliance strategy. Rumsfeld and Bush have done a good job so far in managing relations w RU China Japan and India; in his second term, Bush needs to take this Asia-centricism to the next level.
What's gonna happen will be that the Russers will retaliate against the Chechens, at which point all the pinheads in the world will howl about their brutality
So complaining about brutal russian tactics makes one a pinhead. Yet the Russian govt supports complaints about far milder Israeli tactics - this makes the Russian govt into what? Not just pinheads, but hypocritical pinheads at that.
#22
I think LH has a point here; this horror doesn't get a free pass to russians. Chechnya is already pretty much crushed by now; mindless reaction which only add to the misery of the people will only add to the problem.
Putin has better fix his army, intelligence, and embark on an israeli-type campaign of internal (logistical support in criminal gangs & marketplaces held by caucasians) and foreign (funders, trainers) eliminations, even if it means walking on the feet of the western countries, and setting his priorities straight re Israel, Iran the USa,...
If it happens at least the world will no longer have an excuse for equating torture, humiliation, and miserable conditions. I am tired of sloppy, hysterical, hyperbolic accusations being thrown at our country, and being averted for describing others.
Although the Government generally respected the human rights of its citizens in some areas, its human rights record worsened in a few areas. The Government's record remained poor in the continuing struggle with separatists in Chechnya, where federal security forces demonstrated little respect for basic human rights. There were credible reports of serious violations, including numerous reports of unlawful killings, and of abuse of civilians by both the Government and Chechen fighters in the Chechen conflict. There were reports of both government and rebel involvement in politically motivated disappearances in Chechnya. Parliamentary elections held on December 7 failed to meet international standards, although the voting process was technically well run. Criminal charges and threats of arrest or actual arrest against major financial supporters of opposition parties, and seizure of party materials from opposition parties, undermined the parties' ability to compete.
so the US State dept is run by pinheads as well?
Jules, and Chris, I dont see whats so complicated. Deliberately murdering ordinary people (NOT just head honchos), running amok like the Russkies have done in Chechnya, IS wrong
and DOES increase terrorism. There is a knee jerk response that says the euros criticize Israel on human rights, they criticize the US on human rights,and the criticize Russia on human rights - ergo they must as wrong in criticizing Russia as they are in criticizing the US and Israel. Which is not the case, the IDF doesnt do all the shit the Russians do - what the Russians do in Chechnya is what the West Bank WOULD look like if the Israelis were what they are (falsely) accused of being. Some here would LIKE the Israelis and the Americans to be more like the Russians. Which is an arguement I could understand - except that the Russians DONT allow the US and Israel the same leeway they allow themselves. They can murder civilians in Chechnya, but when Israel builds a wall to protect themselves they are the FIRST to join the Euros in condemning Israel.
Look - the other day I pointed out our many muslim allies - and somebody said theyre not COMMITTED to antiterrorism, theyre just pursuing their own local interests. Well ive got news - no matter how many muslims the Spetnaz kill in Chechnya, the Russians aint committed to antiterrorism either, any more than the French - theyre only commited to their OWN national interests.
In 18 the point i was making was that many of those who will give Putin a break they wont give to the euros are doing so for reasons that have nothing to do with foreign policy - its all about their dislike for certain economic and social policies in europe.
#25
"...but dammit, Blairs a SOCIALIST doncha know?..."
Lh, let it all out! ;) Seriously, Blair's middle of the road in terms of British domestic policy. All that stuff about him stealing Tory clothes is true - it's what won him his first election, and has kept him in power. That includes tolerating limited de-nationalisation. He's perceived as somewhat pragmatic, not 'socialist' (although by American and real-world standards he is). Sort of sexless in a political way. If we didn't have other political issues to contend with at the moment, Britain's crap socialised medical system would be higher on the agenda, and something might have been done about it. It's way worse than America's. Trust me, you don't want it. And if you did have it, you, would go private, I'm sure. Just like our socialist politicians and their families...
But you're dead wrong about the Spaniards, who are probably (after the Greeks) the most virulently anti-American nation in Europe, and the Italians as well. We should not confuse the bravery of an Aznar with support that is forged either in deep cultural and political sympathy or else cold convergence of interests.
lex - Wrong about what? I said "that half of Europe which has supported the US..." I didn't mean France or Spain, or even Germany. Italy, however - what's your problem with them? Berlusconi's been rock solid. I know there's a fair amount of anti-Americanism there, but I also know a few Italians who would take issue with your stereotyping. Anecdotally, I visited Italy last month and the Italian friend I argue most with about politics observed that she couldn't understand Spain's reaction to the pre-election bus bombings - there's more cojones in Italy than Spain (if you pardon the abuse-of-pun). When I was think half of Europe, however, I was primarily thinking the Eastern half.
#27
OK, LH, that's the track I thought you were on, but the sarcasm was dripping off your earlier comments like a faucet of phlegm.
I agree with what you're saying. Putin and the Russians have botched their Chechen problem for years and have no idea how to effective manage the problem. Their solution seems to be to kill everyone in their path and they are not necessarily doing it in the name of stopping terror, just subverting the Chechen lands to Russian rule. Big difference there.
Still, if Putin gets harsh against the right people THIS time, I can't see any other choice but to support him. But he has to go after the right people, not just a mindless counter-slaughter.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 16:00 Comments ||
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#28
Seriously, Blair's middle of the road in terms of British domestic policy. All that stuff about him stealing Tory clothes is true - it's what won him his first election, and has kept him in power. That includes tolerating limited de-nationalisation. He's perceived as somewhat pragmatic, not 'socialist'
Er, i know that. Was my sarcasm not completely clear? :)
(although by American and real-world standards he is).
Persoanlly I disagee - but then some here would deny that im truely american, since i have more sympathy for the social worldviews of FDR and Harry Truman than for Ludwig Van Mies.
Sort of sexless in a political way. If we didn't have other political issues to contend with at the moment, Britain's crap socialised medical system would be higher on the agenda, and something might have been done about it. It's way worse than America's. Trust me, you don't want it.
You will note i said "insurance". Theres no movement among any conservatives to abolish that in Germany or Canada. Yeah, there are occasional stories of long waits for treatment in Canada, etc - yet the Conservatives in Canada dont argue for a US style system - and as someone who is well aware of cases of people delaying or not getting treatment under the US system, I am well aware why.
#29
Bulldog, if your "half of Europe" statement refers to the public, I respectfully disagree. Your Italian friend is not representative of the Italian public. Every public opinion poll I've seen indicates a majority of those polled in continental Europe opposed the Iraq War. I believe the % opposed in Spain was >90% and in Italy >70%. I recall a slight majority opposed the war in Czech and Hungary as well.
Here's the gist of my argument. Outside of Poland and the Anglosphere, the only really solid and enduring support we can count on against the jihadists will come from those nations that perceive a clear convergence of interests with us as regards making war against the jihadists AND that can actually help us with real, hard assets-- intel in the region, bases, men materiel and a willingness to use them.
The simple, brutal fact of the matter is that, aside from the UK and Poland, the Europeans are more keen to maintain access to arab/persian contracts and oil and to dampen the domestic fallout from their own local jihadist cells than they are to help us fight the jihadists on arab or persian soil. This is a cold calculation of objective national interest.
Neither do these nations have any really meaningful assets there. The farce that has been the Little Three's overtures to Iran these past couple of years is a good example. Taken together, these objective facts mean that, despite the odd courageous leader, the foreign policy elites of France, Germany, Spain and Italy will continue to seek to triangulate between us and the muslim world. That is a rational response to their objective situation and I would probably pursue the same tack if I were in the Quai d'Orsay or the other foreign offices.
Russia has pursued this strategy as well, and Turkey to some extent too. India has in the past been aligned with Iran. However, these nations and of course Israel actually have heavy assets, serious humint capabilities on the ground, bases and assets and a willingness to use them against the jihadists. Unlike the Little Three, these states' solid support for a tough containment of Iran could actually make a huge difference there, and regionally, against Al Qaeda as well.
One more point: Iran is heavily courting them. You should not underestimate the value to the desperately poor Russian arms manufacturing and engineering sector of a few billion $$ from nations like Iran. Ditto of course for the Indian and Turkish economies.
Russia, Turkey and India's support will not be easy to gain but with enough dollars, market goodies and other carrots we can bring them around. We need to get serious about doing so, and fast. A nuclear Iran is inevitable, and Old Europe is utterly powerless to help us against Iran when it happens.
#30
Your Italian friend is not representative of the Italian public.
We'll see who wins their next election. If it's the pro-American, pro-war Berlusconi, you'll have to eat your words... Fabrizio Quattrocchi wasn't a good Italian example either? Britain wasn't exactly rabidly pro-war (at times opinion topped 60% against) yet Blair's still popular for a PM.
#31
I just pray to God that the seriously wounded childrens physical wounds heal. The emotional ones will be there forever.
Those sorry shitbags. I hope the Commandoes waxed them all and those scumbags burn in the lowest levels of hell for eternity.
Terrorists might still be holding hostages in the school, said FSB North Ossetian chief Valery Andreyev, who also said that fighting is continuing, Itar-Tass reports. FSB troops are continuing a "violent fight with the remaining bandits, FSB's special forces are doing everything to free children still in the hands of terrorists," Andreyev was quoted by Itar-Tass as saying. The operation HQ also explained that it looks like the sole remaining terrorist is stranded in an annex to the school, and they do not rule out the possibility that some hostages might still be there. Twenty terrorists have been shot in the fighting; ten of them have turned out to be Arabs. Some of the bodies have already been picked up by law enforcement for identification; others lie in plain view but cannot be picked up because of the continuing crossfire.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 2:13:26 PM ||
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#1
Arabs? Unlikely. My stun metre would have given warning.
Sounds good to me... Sounds appropriate to me...
Shortly after the situation erupted at the scene of the hostage crisis in the North Ossetian town of Beslan, the area around the school was described as chaotic, with one suspected terrorist attacked by the crowd. A reporter with Britain's Sky News described how vigilantes attacked one of the suspected rebels. She said special forces brought out a man on a stretcher and the crowd moved as one and began to attack him. The soldiers made a token effort to protect him but they have no control, the reporter said.
"Here, youse! Stop that!... Ummm... Is it lunch? Damn! I'll be back in, uhhh... 10 minutes."
"Make it 20!"
"Hokay."
The chaos is thought to have assisted up to 13 of the hostage-takers to flee the school and hole up in a residential building nearby.
Hopefully soon to be a former residential building...
A correspondent from the BBC who is at the scene also called the situation in the streets in the aftermath of the storming as "pandemonium".
What the hell'd you expect?
Television pictures showed scores of bloodied children in a state of undress milling around armored personnel carriers as soldiers provided water and first aid. The sound of gunfire could be heard in the background. A number of the released hostages have reportedly avoided going to hospital, Gazeta.Ru says, further confusing any attempt at a head count by authorities.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 2:02:22 PM ||
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#1
Cool, I hope they videotaped the terrorist beat down.
#3
Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. They need to capture a few of them alive so they can question them separately, and get corroboration on who sent them, who sheltered them, who paid them, etc.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 15:18 Comments ||
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#5
Zhang - I've heard that some were captured. According to Logic and Sanity:
Officials have stated that the operation is now over. Terrorists were either killed
or apprehanded, and authorities are doubting that any have escaped.
No gunfire or explosions are heard. Sapers are still checking the school for booby traps. 95 dead hostages have been identified so far.
Also, the border between Northen Osetia and Ingushetia has been closed as a precaution.
#6
Got some, fire up the grill!: BESLAN, Russia, Sept. 3 (UPI) -- Russian officials say they have three of the terrorists who seized a North Ossetian school and held hundreds captive in custody. Lev Dzugayev, head of the North Ossetian president's information and analysis department, told Itar-Tass news agency the three "are being interrogated."
Posted by: Steve ||
09/03/2004 15:23 Comments ||
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#7
Plyers and blowtorches arent good enough for this scum, hope the FSB gets real "creative" on them.
#11
"A correspondent from the BBC who is at the scene also called the situation in the streets in the aftermath of the storming as âpandemoniumâ."
It's impossible to understand the BBC without translating from PC-speak.
There was a refreshing break from the term 'hostage-taker' that has been bandied about by the media: the taboo 'terrorist' word was mentioned by someone who was probably a psychologist or psychiatrist. He was describing the effects of PTSD on the hostages in an interview on CNN, believe it or not. I'm sure the studio shook.
#14
Lev Dzugayev, head of the North Ossetian president's information and analysis department, told Itar-Tass news agency the three "are being interrogated."
#15
Sorry Shipman, have to disagree. Get the info. from them first. Then *totally* fuck 'em. old-skool KGB style. Or maybe pulp-fiction style with a "blowtorch and some pliers"
A friend came into the pub tonight and used the term 'hostage-taker' - she'd been watching the horrific event unfold on Socialism-tv, ie the BBC. Hmm.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/03/2004 20:35 Comments ||
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Pakistan on Friday urged foreign militants on its soil to surrender, assuring them they will not be handed over to the United States. Information Minister Sheikh Rashid said there would be no let-up in the hunt for Al Qaeda members, which has already netted hundreds of suspects, under new Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz. "The foreign terrorists must surrender and we give them surety that we will not hand over them to anyone," Rashid, who was re-named to the information portfolio in Aziz' new 32-member cabinet on Thursday, told a press conference. "The policies against terrorism will continue... for the progress of this country, peace and our commitments with the international community."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 2:01:51 PM ||
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An 18-year-old private earned the first Silver Star medal awarded to a soldier from the 1st Cavalry Division serving in Iraq, after he helped fight off a deadly guerrilla ambush in May that killed two of his companions and wounded five. Pfc. Christopher Fernandez, of Tucson, Ariz. received the Silver Star from the division's commander, Maj. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, on Aug. 13. The Silver Star, the military's third-highest combat medal, is given for uncommon valor in combat.
No "V" device is required...
Fernandez, a Humvee machine gunner, is credited with holding a band of insurgents at bay while his companions gathered wounded and dead soldiers from a vehicle disabled by a roadside bombing. The ambush took place May 5 in west Baghdad. One soldier that carried the dead and wounded to safety, 33-year-old Sgt. Timothy Buttz of Bloomington, Minn., was decorated with the Army's Bronze Star medal, with a special commendation for valor.
That's where the "V" device goes...
"After the (bomb) went off, I noticed their Humvee was taking fire, that's when I started shooting back," said Fernandez, a quiet, lanky man who wears glasses. Fernandez ran out of ammunition for his M-249 machine gun. He sprinted to the disabled Humvee and grabbed a damaged M-240 heavy machine gun and dashed back to his position to continue firing. The M-240's protective hand guards had been blown off and Fernandez said he burned his hands in about 10 minutes of sustained shooting. "I knew I had to do something. I could've gotten myself killed to do it," said Fernandez, interviewed at 1st Cavalry headquarters near Baghdad International Airport. The two soldiers who died in the attack were 19-year-old Pfc. Bradley Kritzer, of Irvona, Penn.; and 18-year-old Spc. James Marshall, of Tulsa, Okla. Buttz said the two were unconscious in the back of the disabled Humvee, along with two of the wounded soldiers. "I moved them from their Humvee to mine," Buttz said. Buttz also destroyed the vehicle's sensitive radios before abandoning the damaged Humvee and driving back to their base. Kritzer and Marshall died en route, he said. Since March 2003, 124 Silver Stars and 399 Bronze Stars for valor have been awarded in the Iraq conflict, according to Pentagon figures.
Real heros, all of them.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/03/2004 1:48:17 PM ||
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#3
Good point about the V device. It goes on the Bronze Star (I've got one), it does NOT go on the silver start - valor is required for that award (and I do not have one of those, thankfully I was never subjected to conditions that require actions that result in that kind of heroism).
The US Federal Bureau of Investigation and Interpol agents have begun investigation into a grenade attack on an opposition party rally that killed 20 people, officials said yesterday. Two agents from each organization are working with police and other authorities probing the Aug. 21 assault which the opposition Awami League says was an assassination attempt against party leader Hasina Wajed. "The FBI is here at the invitation of the authorities and with the full knowledge of the government," a US Embassy spokesman in Dhaka told AFP. The two grenade experts from Interpol would follow up a preliminary report by two colleagues from the international police liaison body, the official news agency BSS said.
The Bangladeshi government, which has appointed a senior High Court judge to carry out a judicial inquiry into the blasts, accepted an offer of assistance from Interpol last week. But Awami League chief Hasina Wajed , who survived the assassination attempt, has refused to testify before the one-man judicial commission headed by the High Court judge. According to BSS, she also refused to hand over to the commission her bullet-proof Mercedes jeep which her political secretary Saber Hossian Chowdhury said was fired upon while she was returning to her Sudha Sadan residence after the incident. The commission sources said in Dhaka yesterday that the judicial inquiry commission had sent an official to Hasina's private secretary on Aug. 29 with a letter requesting her to testify before the Commission according to her convenience at her residence. She was also requested to present the jeep for inspection by the commission. The sources said the official, who had gone there with prior appointment, waited for two hours for delivering the letter, but no body received it.
The Awami League, however, has already dismissed the initiative and demanded an "independent international" investigation on all recent blasts in Bangladesh. No one has accepted blame for a series of explosions this year in the northeastern city of Sylhet that killed seven people. A little-known group, Hikmatul Jihad, claimed responsibility for the grenade assault in Dhaka and confirmed opposition claims it had been an attempt on Hasina's life.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 1:37:14 PM ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
09/03/2004 13:39 ||
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#1
âWe strongly condemn the Israeli aggression ... against our people in Khan Yunis,â Palestinian Authority Cabinet Minister Saeb Erekat told Reuters, saying it would escalate bloodshed.
Out of curiosity, does Erekat think the Beersheba bombings are "aggression"? I'd say they were.
International rights groups condemn Israelâs demolition of Palestinian houses as collective punishment.
#2
I generally despise collective punishment, but perhaps Palestinian family members are learning that abetting relatives who are terrorists brings only loss, ruin, and shame to the entire family. Until ostracization of terrorists comes from the people within their midst, the tide in the Israeli/Palestinian struggle will not turn. It would be better if Palestinians saw that terrorism is wrong, period, that they are only losing the sympathy of other nations through their barbaric acts, but few seem to get that. I can only think of two instances where family members denounced terrorists inside their family, after which their houses were spared. It's hard to turn in a family member who is a murderer, but necessary and right.
#3
In light of how a majority of Palestinians collectively support Hamas' continued terror attacks on Israel, collectively punishing them becomes more appropriate than it normally might be. So long as the Palestinians continue to support terrorism, all bets are off and it's no holds barred. Somehow they must learn this vital lesson. One can only imagine the response of any Arab nation against such a small population using similar tactics. The word "extinction" comes to mind.
Rebel Chechen leader, Shamil Basayev, was the mastermind behind the school siege in the North Ossetian town of Beslan, ITAR-TASS news agency reported quoting spokesmen of the Southern Federal District secret service. The operation was organized by Bassayev's subordinate, Magomet Yevloyev. He is also suspected of having organized the attack in Ingushetia in June. Another infamous Chechen rebel, Doku Umarov, was among the rebels who attacked the school. He was the only one not to wear a mask, with hostages subsequently recognizing him, the NTV television channel reported. The operations headquarters in Beslan stressed that the group that seized the school was multinational. Most of the killed gunmen were born in Arab countries. The suicide bombers were trained by the al-Qaeda specialists, the agency quoted the secret service as saying.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:56:42 PM ||
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Happened before the assault; could that explain the explosions that were heard, if true?
An eye witness who was released Wednesday from among over 350 hostages said she saw two women blow themselves up in the corridor of the school where Chechen militants are holding children hostage. "There were about 30 terrorists," Dzandarova told Kommersant in an interview. "All men. First there were two women-fighters, but on Wednesday they blew themselves up in the corridor where there were several male hostages."
"None of the terrorists ever took their masks off. Nobody can see their faces. They aren't tired. They are resting in turns," Dzandarova said. "They call themselves Chechens, and demand that Russia withdraws its forces from Chechnya."
#1
There have been a few different causes attributed to the explosions:
1) The female bomber detonating.
2) A vehicle driven in to retrieve bodies from the gym hit land mines.
3) Russian special forces blew out a hole in back of the gym as an outlet for the escaping hostages.
I hope locals will understand the need to detain all people in the hospital until they are 100% identified. Reports cite how some of the terrorists have tried to mingle with escaping or wounded hostages.
It is important to take many of them alive to accurately debrief them and make clear any al Qaeda and Arab connections with this atrocity.
#3
This has pushed the line with respect to the WOT. These guys are every bit of the Islamists that we are fighting and we should help Russia any way we can. Before I get flamed, yes I know they didn't help in Iraq, but I bet Putin would not forget any help we give.
#4
Agreed. The best way we can help Russia vis-a-vis the Chechens and jihadists would be to help train and re-organize Russia's demoralized, incompetent, and corrupt military.
Time to finally get serious about letting NATO die and replacing it with an Asia-centric alliance (USA-India-Israel-Russia-Turkey) for an Asian century.
Three of the gunmen who took hostages in the south Russian town of Beslan are surrounded and continuing to put up armed resistance from the basement of a residential building, the Itar-Tass news agency reports. Earlier reports said that 10 of the hostage-takers were killed during the storming of the school, but the overall number of gunmen was estimated at about 30. The head of the North Ossetia directorate of the Russian Security Service said that the resisting gunmen were possibly still holding some children hostage. Sources in the law enforcement agencies have told Itar-Tass that the hostage-taking had been directed by the field commander Magomed Yevloyev, aka Magas.
They said the operation had been planned by Shamil Basayev, Russia's most wanted Chechen rebel, who has been behind several major attacks outside Chechnya. Russian officials say rebels fighting for the region's independence from Moscow are under strong influence from Wahhabism, a strict form of Sunni Islam. Wahhabism, the only permitted form of Islam in Saudi Arabia, is banned in Russia. "Apart from that, there is information that the hostage seizure was financed by one of the ideologists of Wahhabism, Abu Omar As-Seyf, who is al-Qaeda's representative in Chechnya," one source was quoted as saying.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:32:56 PM ||
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#1
Is "Ivan 6-pack" aware of what happend in Khatmandu, Nepal after the Jihadis murdered the Nepalese workers in Iraq?
Will we see any Zyefir e Sosiskiy * Roasting at the local mosques because of the murdered children?
Holmes! How do you do it?
A cultlike network of militantly Islamic Chechen women known as "Black Widows" is playing a critical role in what increasingly looks like a coordinated wave of terrorist attacks on civilian targets around Russia, investigators and intelligence analysts now believe. The new series of attacks—including the seizure of a school today by a team of more than a dozen suicide-belt-wearing terrorists near the Chechen border—also raises fresh questions about a relationship that for years has gotten little attention from U.S. intelligence officials: the links between Chechen militants and the broader international movement spearheaded by Al Qaeda.
Indeed, a close reading of the recent report by the September 11 commission reveals 27 different references to connections between Al Qaeda and the Chechen rebels. The Chechen conflict was such an important cause to Islamic militants throughout the Middle East and Western Europe during the 1990s that, according to the commission's report, many of the 9/11 hijackers themselves originally intended to fight in Chechnya before migrating to Afghanistan.
The use of female suicide bombers has not previously been a tactic employed by the strict Wahhabi-trained Muslims of Al Qaeda. But the recent tactics in Russia, including the actions of the Black Widows raises concerns that that could be changing. At least two female militants are believed to be part of the terrorist team holding the estimated 300 hostages, many of them children, at the school in Ossetia near Chechnya today. But if the team in today's school attack is predominantly men, Black Widows are the principle suspects in a separate incident near a Moscow subway station on Tuesday and in two suspicious plane crashes last week. U.S intelligence sources say that Islamic militants in Chechnya now appear to have recruited women to work as frontline terrorists. The experts say that in the past this is something that most (but not all) other violent Islamic groups, particularly groups connected with Al Qaeda, seem to have been reluctant to do.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:31:45 PM ||
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The mass hostage-taking at a Russian school was led by a senior Chechen rebel commander and possibly financed by al-Qaeda, Itar-Tass news agency quoted sources in the regional security service as saying. The sources said that according to early information, Chechen commander Magomet Yevloyev led the seizure of hundreds of children and adults in the school in the province of North Ossetia which ended in bloodshed on Friday. They said the operation had been planned by Shamil Basayev, Russia's most wanted Chechen rebel, who has been behind several major attacks outside Chechnya. Russian officials say rebels fighting for the region's independence from Moscow are under strong influence from Wahhabism, a strict form of Sunni Islam.
Comes as a surprise, huh?
Wahhabism, the only permitted form of Islam in Saudi Arabia, is banned in Russia. "Apart from that, there is information that the hostage seizure was financed by one of the ideologists of Wahhabism, Abu Omar As-Seyf, who is al Qaeda's representative in Chechnya," one source was quoted as saying.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:27:05 PM ||
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#1
That should be "attack."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:36 Comments ||
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#2
Dan: Is there an Iran angle to any of the support for this operation?
Ten of the 20 hostage-takers who set off a major crisis in North Ossetia on Wednesday and were killed by Russian troops on Friday came from Arab countries, a Federal Security Service (FSB) official said. Valery Andreyev, who heads the North Ossetian branch of the FSB, also said more than 400 hostages had been released over the past two hours. "Unfortunately, there are fatalities among the hostages. So far, 60 of them have been identified," he said. He said some of the militants were still holding some people hostage inside the school and that Russian special forces were fighting them. "There are fatalities among members of the special forces," Andreyev said.
It wouldn't be real terrorism if there weren't Lions of the Desert™ involved...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:23:24 PM ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
09/03/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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#2
I put $ on it that they are Saudis. When will the world wake up and smell the coffee?
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
09/03/2004 13:00 Comments ||
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#3
Those Arab charities need a friendly visit. A Welcome Wagon knock on the door. There needs to be a price, an overwhelming price. Bankrupt and bloody those you pray for the cut-throats.
#4
Inject the survivors with pig's blood and ensure they won't get to paradise.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 14:07 Comments ||
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#5
When will this nation recognize that Russia's support, like India's and Turkey's, is worth far more to us than anything France or Germany or the rest of continental Europe could ever offer?
We should pay Russia's nuclear companies whatever sum they need to halt, immediately, all Russian support to Iran. And offer to help train and re-organize Russia's demoralized, incompetent, and corrupt military.
Let NATO die a quiet death. Replace it with an Asia-centric alliance (USA-India-Israel-Russia-Turkey) for an Asian century.
#6
Ooooh, Chris, I like it. THAT's creative thinking and a fantastic disincentive for Islamicists!
Lex-At least as far as Russia's concerned, we'll realize it when we find a way to dispose of/deal with, not train/reorganize, corruption. It is more than a buzzword-it is a way of life which makes it incredibly risky for us to ally ourselves in the way you describe. Well, that's my take anyway, and I LIKE Russia.
#9
now this may seem irrational but The Soviet Union was a Superpower, Wouldnt it be interesting to see Putin to make a superpower move Send thier version of the "B-1" and knock on The Saudis door, I for one would support this move ..
my 2 cents
Do note that Arabs are among the dead ...
Commandos stormed a school Friday in southern Russia and battled separatist rebels holding hundreds of hostages, as crying children, some naked and covered in blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. An official said the death toll could be more than 150. Three of the separatist rebels were reportedly still blockaded in a school basement, trading fire with security forces. A Federal Security Service official said militants were still holding hostages hours after much of the school was secured. Ten militants were killed in the violence, including nine Arabs, an aide to President Vladimir Putin said, according to the Interfax news agency.
Fox News put the number at 20 a few minutes ago...
It was a chaotic climax to the hostage standoff that began Wednesday morning when up to two dozen militants, some with explosives strapped to their bodies, stormed the school. The militants, who were demanding independence for nearby Chechnya, kept up to 1,500 hostages — mostly women and children — in the sweltering gymnasium, refusing to let in food or water. After the hostage-takers fled, more than 100 bodies were found in the gymnasium, some apparently killed when part of the school's roof collapsed in an explosion early in the day's violence. The presidential aide said the total death toll could be singificantly more than 150 people. Some 520 people were wounded, health officials said.
520 wounded out of 350 hostages is a fairly high ratio...
The regional health minister earlier reported that at least 218 children were wounded. Security forces did not plan to storm the building, officials said, but were prompted when the hostage-takers set off explosions early Friday afternoon, opened fire on fleeing hostages then began to try to escape. Gunfire rang out for hours as security forces chased hostage-takers, who split up to flee. Interfax and the ITAR-Tass news agency reported the three militants holed up in the basement may include the head of the group.
They mean the immediate head of the group, not Basayev or Maskhadov...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/03/2004 12:08:42 PM ||
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#1
What's with the report of Arabs?
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
09/03/2004 12:18 Comments ||
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#2
"Arabs, Chechens, Muslims, they all lok the same to me." :V. Putin.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/03/2004 12:21 Comments ||
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#3
Also notice that the always "unbiased" news media avoided mentioning the words muslim and terroristsin this report.
I do not have a TV right now but I expect that these barbaric actions are being covered 24 hours by the major TV channels, right?
#4
A6134 - Sadly the MSM hardly mentions it - and never mentions that they 'hostage-takers' (or gangsters) are muslim terrorists. The last I saw they were trying to pin the blame on the Russian government (ala 'we must have done something to deserve this'...).
#5
I posted just after the Russian airliners were attacked that this was a full on, comprehensive terrorist campaign complete with terror apologists posting here on Rantburg. Witness Lyot. There are surely others on conservative boards such a this. I have dealt with them in LFG and right-thinking.com
Libya signed an agreement to pay $35 million in compensation for non-U.S. victims in the 1986 bombing of disco in Berlin, the latest step in Libya's attempts to put its international pariah status behind it. The money will be distributed among 168 claimants: Germans who were wounded or suffered psychological damage and family of a Turkish woman killed in the blast. The April 5, 1986 bombing of the La Belle discotheque in west Berlin also killed two U.S. servicemen and wounded at total of 230 people. Lawyers are seeking separate compensation in U.S. courts for American victims.
An executive of a foundation run by Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's son signed the agreement with German lawyers representing the families of the victims. "The negotiations were very hard but we managed to overcome all the obstacles," Ali Abdel Salam, the executive manager of the Libyan foundation, said a a news conference following the signing. Hans-Joachim Ehrig, one of four German lawyers who sat at the negotiating table with the Libyans, said through a translator, "This is a happy day for the victims who were waiting all those years to get their compensation." The compensation will be paid within six months.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/03/2004 11:56:24 AM ||
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An armed gang that stormed a school in southern Russia may be holding as many as 1,500 hostages, far above the official figure of 350, newspapers quoted freed hostages on Friday as saying.
The figure might be a little high, but they've freed more than 350 by now, and there are a lot of dead...
The eyewitnesses, among 26 women and infants released on Thursday, also said the group of up to 40 captors was refusing to give hostages food and water.
20 Bad Guys reported dead, apparently after this article went up, and some escaped...
"You know, there aren't 350 people in there, but 1,500 in all. People are lying one on top of another," Zalina Dzandarova, a 27-year-old woman, told the Kommersant daily. The hostages were seized on Wednesday morning -- the first day of the new school year in Russia -- by an armed gang in an raid that bore all the hallmarks of a Chechen rebel operation. "On the TV they are saying that there are 350 of us. It's not true. There are no fewer than 1,500 of us in the school," Izvestiya quoted an unnamed mother as saying. The Gazeta daily quoted a third woman saying there were 1,020 hostages. Izvestiya said 860 pupils attended School No.1 in Beslan, North Ossetia. But the number of people on the campus would have been swelled by parents and relatives attending the first day ceremony traditional in Russian schools.
Dzandarova said the masked gang struck at 9 a.m. on Wednesday. They began shooting into the air. "Everybody, parents and children, ran in panic into the school building," she said, adding that the attackers killed people left in the school yard and those who resisted. Two women assailants blew themselves up in a corridor, killing a number of male hostages. Hostages were later herded into the school gym, where the captors booby-trapped the basketball hoops, the woman told Izvestiya. Dzandarova said some injured hostages were taken out of the sports hall into a corridor and "finished off." Others feeling unwell were sent to the changing rooms.
The captors were well organized and resting in shifts. "None of the terrorists removed their masks. Nobody can see their faces. They aren't tired. They are resting in turns," she said. "They call themselves Chechens, and demand that Russia withdraws its forces from Chechnya."
Posted by: Destro ||
09/03/2004 3:22:09 AM ||
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The three-day school siege in Russia is continuing after a day of dramatic and bloody clashes with reports of up to 150 people dead. At least three gunmen, including their leader, are holed up inside the school. The Interfax agency said they were holding children hostage. The agency reported that 150 people had died and more than 400 children were injured. Dozens of the dead were found in the school gym where gunmen held up to 1,500 children, teachers and parents. The Russian security service FSB said 20 rebels were killed and claimed 10 of them were of Arab rather than Chechen descent.
The soldiers stormed the building after the gunmen opened fire on a group of children who were trying to escape. A Russian security chief said they had not planned to go in. As the school turned into a battleground, other children began to stream out. Then, it seems, the roof which had been mined by the rebels exploded and crashed to the ground. Other hostages were pulled free and collapsed outside, exhausted, shocked and disorientated. Sky's Rachel Amatt, reporting from the school, said the situation descended into chaos with parents flooding into the school grounds as the fighting continued.
It is understood that several of the hostage-takers managed to escape and were pursued by Russian tanks and special forces. One freed hostage said a female suicide bomber accidently set off an explosion before Russian soldiers stormed the building. An armed group of about 40 men and women had entered the school on Wednesday during a start-of-term celebration. They freed 32 people, including several described as infants, on Thursday. Fifteen hostages were allowed out on Wednesday.
12:51 Russian news agencies: Russian troops seen shooting at rebels fleeing school; roof of school collapsed
12:26 Interfax: 30 children rescued from south Russia school
12:18 Reports: Group of hostages escapes from south Russia school siege
12:10 Explosions and gunfire heard at south Russia school where hundreds of people are being held hostage
Hostages escape besieged school in Breslan, North Ossetia, as ferocious gunfight continues between 40 Russian Alfa soldiers and hostage takers inside building. Some terrorists made a run for it, fired on by soldiers.
Earlier, soldiers seen carrying children - some naked, injured or covered in blood - out of building, amid heavy gunfire and loud explosions. Forty children rescued so far. No information of how many still inside or casualties. Earlier report of up to 1,000 hostages. Fleet of ambulances carry injured. Four helicopters hover overhead.
Two loud explosions came before Russian assault. Earlier, Kremlin sources said troops forced to attack after phone intercepts suggested terrorists planning massacre.
Two loud explosions in school came before Russian assault. Full confrontation with hostages now raging. Earlier, Kremlin sources reported soldiers going in to collect bodies. Another report says phone intercepts suggested terrorists planning massacre.
#4
Sounds like the devils set off some of their explosives and the Spetznaz went in. It also sounds like a bloodbath. Every terrorist should be killed on the spot, naturally, and their bodies displayed on global television.
#5
CNN now reports most children O.K. according to spokes-people, as I speak the reporter is seemingly almost in the middle of a fire-fight that is still going on, newscast show a lot of children beeing evacuated.
#6
The situation is very confused at the moment, but I would say judging by the continuing gunfire and explosions that it's most certainly not over yet. Reports of some of these monsters trying to escape or even that some have escaped (with hostages). Death by vivisection is too good for them.
#7
If they stayed masked the whole time, then they just ditch the masks and bomb belts (especially the women), and just slip away.
First the theater in Moscow, now this. What do you suppose would happen if the turbans tried this tactic here? How would our response compare to the Russians? More cautious? More rapid? Would we pull together, or would the partisan BS just kick into higher gear?
God, some of this video on Fox right now. It must've been +100 degrees in there. "158 kids in the local hospital." A beautiful little girl with a bruised face sitting in the back of a cop car. Bastards. More explosions. Fucking bastards.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/03/2004 6:38 Comments ||
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#8
Its starting to look like some the bastards were trying to escape with a group of children that got out, other snuffies were firing on the escaping group forcing Spetznats to act.
So there might have been some "argument" among the hosyage-takers.
#9
"House-to-house running battles through the streets." Happy hunting, spetnaz. (There's a sentence I never thought I'd have to construct.)
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/03/2004 6:56 Comments ||
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#10
It appears that the devils mixed with the escaping hostages, using them as shields, with other (sacrificial) terrorists providing covering fire to keep the troops from herding the escapees into holding areas where they could be checked. Once outside the perimeter, the terrs were in with the families and gawkers and able to get into the surrounding area in the confusion of a running fight.
I don't think they'll get far if the authorities have blocked the roads and put heavy patrols into the woods with whatever air support is needed.
#11
Hundreds of casualties at local hospitals, the worst being sent to Vladikavkaz, the N. O. capital. The audio sounds like the fall of Berlin. Steady machine gun fire, constant heavy explosions.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/03/2004 7:09 Comments ||
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#12
Russian troops in Chechnya will go absolutely apeshit when they see this.
The pictures are appalling, hundreds of naked, injured, and terrified children and teenagers, smoke getting heavier, continuous gunfire. The children are gulping water, the monsters denied it to them for three days even though it was apparently available in the building. Not even the fucking nazis would have done that. These are true devils, the cruelest and most ruthless enemy ever faced by human beings, crueler than the nazis or the Mongols though not so powerful.
They should be exterminated by any means necessary, PC-touchy-feely media world is dead. Welcome back to the jungle.
#13
Debka says armed townies are storming the school too.
Free advice to any Chechen or Ingush (or any variety of Muslim) anywhere in North Ossetia right now: if you can run, run. If not, hide.
It's time to get with the pogrom, people.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/03/2004 7:31 Comments ||
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#14
I have heard several Russians, including nutbag Zhirinovsky (who nevertheless knows warfare) and Afghanistan veteran Nikita Kruschev (grandson of the late Premier) insist that napalm would be very effective against the Chechen rebels.
I have seen it in action and I agree.
Screw the media and their satanic peace hypocrite hand-wringing, issue flamethrowers and napes and light 'em up.
#15
Heads on pikes please.. Wonder if the bbc are still calling them 'armed people'? Off to check..
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/03/2004 7:47 Comments ||
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#16
Sad as it is , maybe some good can come out of this and russia will stop pussy footing around with this war on terror and get fully behind usa and uk. Bush has already pledged his support to Putin (prolly be finacial and millitary hardware)
The ball may start rolling fast now . expect some major announcements regarding this matter in the coming weeks .
#23
Frm Russian TV website translated on freetranslation.com
Storm of school in Beslan began suddenly
As the correspondent of NTV informs, all began from two explosions which have sounded about 14 hours. That it for explosions, by the that moment nobody knew.
Before from an operative staff informed, that during negotiations with terrorists it was possible to come to the agreement on export from territory of school of bodies of victims, those whom insurgents have shot two more days back at capture of school.
After from explosions chaotic shooting has dissipated, began a smoke. Fire was conducted from all kinds of a small arms. Neither journalists, nor relatives of hostages who have pushed aside on safe distance, did not know, that occurs at school.
In some minutes from a school court yard hostages have started to run out. Exhausted, undressed, some of them could not move, them deduced(removed) and bore(took out) on a stretcher.
Approximately in half an hour after the first explosions of agency began to transfer the information on the escaped hostages and that terrorists have opened on them fire.
In an operative staff have declared, that explosions have sounded right after, how employees of the Ministry of Emergency Measures came to school to take away bodies of victims.
The panic began. Hostages have rushed away from school, and terrorists have opened on them fire. After that the special troops began to break in a building of school.
The information on that the special troops have taken under the control a building of school in Beslan, have appeared on tapes of news agencies in one and a half hour after the first explosions.
Later militarians have declared, that terrorists try to break from an environment in inhabited quarters of city. At this time agencies for the first time have named the preliminary data on wounded men - more than 200 person, among them children, and these figures are specified. Shooting in streets of Beslan proceeds till now.
#25
It'd be worthwhile to let Russia get some of the spotlight in this war on terror.
The international community has been trying to make Abu Ghraib out to be Auschwitz, trying to make the invasion of Iraq look like Hitler's land grab. They are obsessed about our actions which are lily white in comparison to the actions of terrorists. The Russians should put cameras in that gym and broadcast for the whole world to see how the lowlifes have strewn a school gymnasium with the corpses of kids under the excuse that it's a "political struggle".
#22-Not surprising. The international community's PR police seems not to have quite the fixation on the methods or motivations of the Russians, and retaliation a la Russe could really put the scare into a variety of nutcases in that part of the world, don't you think?
Sept. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Russian troops stormed a school in the country's south as hostages fled the gymnasium where armed terrorists held as many as 1,500 people captive for two days. Dozens of people died, Interfax and CNN reported from the scene. More than 400 hostages were taken to hospitals, Interfax reported. A cameraman from U.K.-based ITV said at least 100 dead bodies were in the school after the storm, Cable News Network reported. Interfax said ``dozens'' died. An armed group of 28 people wearing explosive belts took over the school Wednesday, demanding Russia grant full independence to Chechnya.
The raid was the fourth Chechnya-related terrorist incident in 10 days. Two passenger planes crashed Aug. 24 after explosions, killing 89 people, and 10 died on Monday evening after a suicide bomb attack near a Moscow subway station. President Vladimir Putin first commented yesterday, calling all four acts ``attacks on Russia as a whole'' as he met Jordan's King Abdullah II in Moscow. ``The feeling of stability has been very seriously undermined by one terrorist attack after another,'' said Alexei Moisseev, an economist at Moscow brokerage Renaissance Capital. ``Instead of addressing the nation, Putin made comments while meeting leaders of other nations.''
Putin's popularity has been declining this year, according to opinion polls by the Moscow-based Levada Center, an independent agency. His approval rating stood at 68 percent last month, down from 81 percent at the start of the year and the lowest level for Putin since December 2000, Levada said, based on surveys of 1,600 people across Russia with a margin of error of 3.4 percent.
Terrorists Opened Fire
Russian soldiers opened fire at terrorists who tried to flee among the hostages, Valery Andreev, a spokesman for the Federal Security Service, said in remarks broadcast on state-run Rossiya television. As many as 1,500 people, mostly women and children, were taken captive in the school on Sept. 1, Zalina Dzandarova, a former hostage who was released yesterday, said earlier today.
One or more terrorists started firing when Russian rescuers entered the school with the hostage-takers' permission to take out the bodies of between 10 and 20 people killed earlier, Andreev said. A group of 40 children broke out while the bodies were being removed and the terrorists opened fire indiscriminately, he said. The hostage-takers responded by detonating a bomb, causing the school's roof to partly collapse, Andreev said.
Russian forces blew a hole in the wall of the building where the hostages were being held to create an extra escape route for the captives, Itar-Tass reported, citing eye witnesses. The armed group had demanded the separation of Chechnya from Russia, North Ossetian President Alexander Dzasokhov told Agence France Presse. Beslan is in North Ossetia, about 60 kilometers west of the Chechen capital, Grozny. There were no ``clear demands,'' according to Dzugayev.
#27
Let's hope we can turn this into the same kind of god cop/bad cop alliance we had with the Russians in WWII; we accept the surender of those who admit defeat and are ready to change, they destroy everything else. Too bad they can't take thier best weapon, Winter, with them.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/03/2004 11:05 Comments ||
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#25 The international community has been trying to make Abu Ghraib out to be Auschwitz, trying to make the invasion of Iraq look like Hitler's land grab. They are obsessed about our actions which are lily white in comparison to the actions of terrorists.
Excellent point, jules. Maybe the outside world will STFU about Iraq now. With this new nadir in cowardice, Islamic terror has finally demonstrated its insatiable thirst for innocent blood. It appears as though the terrorists were starving and dehydrating their hostages to immobilize them.
#20and take the battle to their paymasters and supporters in Saudi and the EU. Wetwork
I'm with you, Frank G. Even though cingold tried to rip me on my support of wetwork yesterday, I still stand by it. We are on the brink of total war. The fight must be taken to the enemy. Since they have chosen to be decentralized and transnational, we must distribute our resources accordingly.
Rectal cavities like al-Qaradawi, Bashir, abu Hamza and al-Sadr all need to go into the crosshairs. After that, start removing the entire Wahhabist clergy in Saudi Arabia. Zhang Fei has it absolutely right. Wahhabism must be declared a political ideology and its proponents therefore be subjected to extreme sanctions.
How many more schools full of children must be taken hostage before we get serious? Anyone who pauses to answer that question needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The world just got an unblinking glimpse into the yawning abyss of evil.
Islamism has been devouring its young for a very long time. Little historical notice was given to this cannibalism because women and girls were most often the ones being thrown into the meat grinder. The camel jockeys are, literally, too small to get much ink and no one really comprehended the import of Iran sending ten year-old boys out in advance of their troops as human mine sweepers during the Iran-Iraq war. All that has changed forever with this one incident.
Terrorism's callous disregard for human life was finally made crystal clear on 9-11, at least for all thinking Americans. For anyone else who remained uncertain on the topic, this final demonstration of demonic viciousness should make it all clear.
We need to start waxing any and all who support violent jihad whenever and wherever we can find them. I'm so pissed off right now, I'll even venture that it might be time to start whacking militant Islamists right here in the United States. We probably need to settle for deporting them, but I am in such a rage over these scumbags that planting them is at the top of the Christmas list as of now.
ISLAMISM IS NO LONGER DEVOURING JUST ITS OWN SPAWN, IT IS NOW DEVOURING OUR YOUNG. ALL ISLAMISTS MUST DIE, NOW, NOT LATER.
#32
Debka says armed townies are storming the school too. . . .
Reports that the townspeople have found one of the terrorists alive, and are tearing him to pieces. Troops making 'token' efforts to stop them . . .
. . . The captured devil was skinned alive. Ouch!
Looks like the Russians have their own 93rd Volunteer Infantry. Good for them.
Posted by: Mike ||
09/03/2004 11:46 Comments ||
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#33
These freaks have woken a beast that really ought not to have messed with. They think we went Godzilla on them. They ain't seen nothing yet.
Normally I'd feel sorry for anyone caught in the Bear's cross hairs when it is completely enraged but nobody deserves it more than these monsters.
jules,
I think the kids were half naked because these f***ers wouldn't allow them any air and it has been in the ninties outside over there. The kids were also not allowed food or water!
Not just holding kids hostage but torturing them. Just another banner day for the religion of peas.
#34
#20 and take the battle to their paymasters and supporters in Saudi and the EU. Wetwork
Posted by: Frank G
Exactly right, Frank. Find the financial sources and take them and their families out. They will learn that there is a very heavy price to pay for laying this misery on children and their parents.
Do not depend upon the UN to do anything, that's for sure. This whole situation with terrorists holding children hostage, threatening mass killing almost makes me physically sick.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/03/2004 11:55 Comments ||
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#35
#30Why are so many of these kids naked/half-dressed?
jules, it may have been a move by the terrorists to inhibit and disable their hostages. Instilling a sense of vulnerability is textbook methodology for making hostages more compliant.
#32 Troops making 'token' efforts to stop them
Not a good time for these cretins to be caught by the locals. My heart pumps piss.
I'm still waiting for the staff at all those roadblocks the terrorists drove through on their way to the school to get a sample of the population's wrath. They are very much to blame.
#36
Why are so many of these kids naked/half-dressed?
Peggy's got it. Logic and Sanity reports that it's hot there (it still being summer and all), and the kids were kept herded together for easier watching. So they got hot and took their clothes off.
I hope it's true and if so that it gets plastered all over the world's news media.
Give them something to think about.
Posted by: Michael ||
09/03/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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#38
I saw some of the locals seem to be taking the law into their own hands. This is good.
I just flamed the BBC over their insistance on giving this jihadi scum moral equivalence with the civilized world. More people need to put pressure on them. We also need to put pressure on Bush to give Putin support for any action against these Chechen scum dogs.
Well I am off for some "outpaitent" surgery. Not a good not to leave on with babies being held hostage yet.
#39
Tidbits from Logic and Sanity(Special thanks to them for giving such detailed coverage):
Several terrorists have been captured.
One of the terrorists has been severely beaten/possibly killed by an angry mob.
ex hostages are saying that terrorists began killing hostages before the storm.
When the storm began, the terrorists divided into 3 groups. First group stayed inside the school, second group tried to escape, and third tried to blend in with the hostages.
Head of the North Osetian parliament asked the civilian population to organize itself into groups and patrol the town looking for the escaping terrorists.
A female terrorist was caught. She changed into a white garb and tried to enter a hospital,
but due to the heavy police presence turned around and headed to the HQ where she was apprehended.
Doctors are afraid that some of the wounded might be terrorists.
One of the three groups of the terrorists has been killed off and their hostages freed. Reportedly, there are 9 arabs amongst the terrorists.
#40
http://www2.interfax.ru/eng/news/politics/040903/64802/story.html
3.9.2004 15:36 MSK
Tank shots heard in Beslan
BESLAN/MOSCOW. Sept 3 (Interfax) - Tank shots have been heard in a building
in Beslan, where some of the gunmen involved in the siege fled to after Russian forces stormed the school, an Interfax correspondent has reported.
Military helicopters are flying over the area.
In the meantime, the Russian Defense Ministry has told Interfax a Northern Caucasus Military District special task unit is currently fighting the terrorists who have left the school.
"Northern Caucasus Military District spies who followed the rebels, who have changed their clothes, have begun fighting them," Interfax was told.
#41
it's really disturbing to see them naked. I find it hard to believe that the teen girls and teachers would have voluntarily stripped down to nothing - which seems to be the case in some of the photos.
Sock Puppet - Good luck in your surgery.
Posted by: B ||
09/03/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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#42
B,
I'm not sure that the Russians have the same concept of modesty as we do. I think they are more like the Europeans than not. I could be wrong of course but I think this is probably the case.
#43
News in Greece mentioned that it was the Russian troops that had the kids & teachers undress, in order to be sure that no bombs had been put on them by the terrorists.
#44
aris - that's reassuring. I hope you are right.
Posted by: B ||
09/03/2004 12:50 Comments ||
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#45
BBC stating fighting still going on. Citing reports that there may have been as many as 1200 hostages. Discussing Russian statements re: "arab" fighters as typical of Russian claims. Calling these terrorists "rebels", so take everything they say for what it's worth.
#46
These pictures alternately bring tears and make me mad as hell. I heard some villagers caught and beat down some of the terrorist scum.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 12:51 Comments ||
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#47
peggy - I think that between your and Aris' comment - it makes a good explanation as to why they are naked. Phew. That was really bothering me.
Posted by: B ||
09/03/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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#48
statements re: "arab" fighters as typical of Russian claims
I've seen reports other than Russian media that Chechnia served as training area for arab jihadis much as Afghanistan did. Went there to "make their bones" as it were. It was also easier than facing our troops in Iraq.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/03/2004 13:04 Comments ||
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#49
I would not want to be in Chechnya in the next few weeks. The bear is going to go apeshit. I have two little girls. I want to kill these guys myself. The Devil's henchmen. They are beneath mercy.
Posted by: remote man ||
09/03/2004 13:10 Comments ||
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#50
#38 Spod - I too have penned a fierce missive to the news editor of the Beeb website - up until today they were describing these fuckers as 'armed people' and an 'armed gang'. Today this has been changed to 'Chechen Separatists'. 3 Soldiers of Islam⢠apparently still remain inside the basement with several hostages. Bastards.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/03/2004 13:32 Comments ||
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#51
B, If something l did happen I dont think we want to publicize it much. It would hurt the kids even more and 'pin a feather' in the terrorists cap -- those sicko probably think it would be a badge of honor.
#53
And too think that all of this might have been averted if only Chechnyans had made reasonable demands from the start and then embarked on a principled non-violent struggle to achieve autonomy.
Things also might have been different if when the Russian bear reacted predictably to the stupid rebellious provocations of the separatists, Chechnyans had appealed to the world for justice and had not, under any provocation, retaliated in kind.
There was a time when I had a greater degree of sympathy for the Chechnyans. What the Russians did to them for their idiot independence ploy was beyond the pale. But they had a choice of how to respond.
They could have shamed Russia on the international stage if they had taken the course that Gandhi or MLK took. But their religion has no concept of this kind of resistance. They have only either silent suffering or explosive monstrous retaliation as models for their behavior.
all muslims believe that they have a right to decide when they have been patient enough and when they decide this for themselves they also believe that they have a right to do to any enemy what the enemy has done to them.
Islam is the ultimate cause of this sickening trajedy because instead of teaching muslims to "Do onto others as you would have them do unto you" (The Golden Rule that Jesus taught) they are taught to do onto others whatever they have done onto them.
In almost every case where muslims might have had a chance to gain the sympathy of the world for their suffering, they have blown it by increasing the overall carnage through retaliation in kind. One factor is common in all of these cases. In all of them the muslims have turned to their religion and the example of mohammed to solve their problems. In Bosnia, the one case where muslims did gain the sympathy of the world, it was because they remained as they always had been ie culturally muslim but more European in inclination.
I still feel truly sorry for whatever will happen as a result of this to any Chenyans who just want to get on with their lives. I know there must be some. I will feel sorry for what they could have been if they then decide to make others suffer as they do.
But I won't be surprised when that happens. And for any Chechnyan who takes that course, I will not have a further drop of sympathy for them. They will only have themslves and their stupid islamist leaders to blame for what they will have coming to them.
The death-roll in Beslan is exceeded by 150 person
03.09.2004, 20.59
BESLAN, northern Ossetia/, on September, 3./Ãïåö.êîðð. ITAR-TASS/. The death-roll in North Ossetian the city of Beslan is exceeded by 150 person. The adviser of the president of Russian Federation Aslambek Ãslà khà nîv informed about it. It agrees to the data of the Ministry of Emergency Measures of the Russian Federation, 646 more have received various wounds and are delivered in hospitals of Beslan and Vladikavkaz. 332 from them - children.
As a result of fight with grasping school terrorists two employees of law enforcement bodies were lost also, three more have received wounds. Victims of tragedy became also two rescuers - employee "Tsentrospasa", two their colleagues during evacuation of bodies of victims are wounded.
While there is not clear a general number of people which appeared in hostages at terrorists. As head UFSB across Northern Ossetia Valery Andreev informed, from a building of school have been released more than 400 hostages. According to the adviser of the president of Russian Federation Aslambek Ãslà khà nîv, " in telephone conversation with him terrorists asserted, that keep 1200 person ".
In the meantime, in territory of school one center of resistance of insurgents still is not suppressed. The group of terrorists is shot from separately worth school extension. It is possible, that they keep still a part of hostages.
Under Valery Andreeva's certificate, during today's events 20 gangsters, among which 10 natives of the Arabian countries have been liquidated. Earlier the adviser of the president of Russian Federation Aslambek Ãslà khà nîv informed, that a building of the seized school was up to 30 gangsters. Among insurgents there were representatives of " different nationalities ". " There was full foreigners ", - he has added.
Fire at school of Beslan which has flashed as a result of fight, is extinguished. However because of explosions and a fire in a sports hall blockages were formed and now rescuers of the Ministry of Emergency Measures prepare for their analysis.
The first explosions have thundered today at school approximately at 13:15 Moscow time. Shortly before it insurgents have authorized to take out from a building about 10-20 bodies them before hostages. When employees of the Ministry of Emergency Measures evacuated bodies, terrorists, most likely, have undermined the explosives earlier established in a building. Then has taken place partial îáðóøåÃèå buildings. From it people have started to be pulled out. Insurgents have opened on them chaotic shooting. Force divisions it was necessary to improvise. Under the certificate of eyewitnesses, the special troops have made low-power explosion to do an aperture within the precincts of school and to create one more way for an exit of hostages.
Chief UFSB across Northern Ossetia Valery Andreev has declared, that " any force actions in Beslan was not planned ". " We planned to continue contacts with the purpose of nonviolent clearing hostages, - has told on.-for this purpose in republic there has arrived the adviser of the president of Russian Federation Aslambek Ãslà khà nîv". By words Andreyeev, supervising an operative staff, silovaka it was necessary to start to operate in reply to execution of hostages by insurgents.
" We were going to carry on dialogue to avoid blood ", - has told in turn Aslambel Aslakhanov.
On the preliminary data silovikov, operation on capture of school in Beslan was developed by Shamil Basayev, and field commander Magomet Evloev carried out. About this correspondent. The ITAR-TASS were informed by representatives of special services of Southern federal district. Besides the interlocutor of agency has told, there is an information, that " mass capture of hostages in Beslan one of ideologists of wahhabism "Abu the Lobster" has financed the Expert - safe " which is representative "al-Qaeda" in the Chechen Republic and the manager of the monetary streams acting there from abroad ".
"Wahabist Abu the Lobster financed the operation?"
After all, the Mafia is famous for their nicknames - and the Wahabis are nothing more than a Mafioso type operation wrapped in a false religious mantle.
Now, one has to wonder, will Putin finally realize they have a dog in the fight, and roll some troops into Iraq in exchange for some training and inteliigence exchanges...
add 2 divisions of Russians on the borders of Iraq, especially after this travesty, and there will not be too many that survive illegal border crossings from Iran or Syrian.
Frees up lots of US troops for internal usage - training more Iraqi, and giving higher force count to those urban ops that are coming.
#65
TGA gets it right. It's AWFULLY quiet in all those ME "Holy Cities"...
Posted by: Chris W. ||
09/03/2004 15:21 Comments ||
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#66
Has anyone heard of one single Islamic Organization denounce it? CAIR? Islam Online?
Well i dont usually follow their sites, but i have little doubt you'll hear denunciations, just as you heard denunciations of the kidnapping of the French journalists, even from such paragons of non-violent resistance (sarcasm mode off) as Hamas.
#67
Oh they will denounce it in no uncertain terms in English
But every word they will say about it in arabic from both the pulpit and among individual will undermine their "condemnations" with excuses and legalistic word wrangling which will amount to nothing at all to make any difference whatever.
Their "poor" "misunderstood" and "desparate" brothers will get their messages loud and clear.
#69
That's why a a kind of 'compliance clause' needs to be built into the language; a compliance clause that is simple, unnuanced, unmistakable, devastating. The compliance clause could authorize freezing of assets, loss of a seat on an international body, or, in aggregious cases, military actions against violators. These are somewhat worn examples but we could get creative and think up even more. The clause must be binding and be literal, not figurative-which is the standard escape hatch in Arabic.
#70
Oh no, no wiggle room there. The free nations will formulate what has to be said... in Arabic and all other languages used in Muslim countries.
And we want statements in all national TV stations and every mosque.
A formal, encompassing condemnation of terror. Nothing added by them, nothing left out.
#71
A formal, encompassing condemnation of terror. Nothing added by them, nothing left out. Time frame: One month.
Nothing added or left out? No exception for Israel? Then ive got new TGA, a fair number of your fellow Europeans couldnt pass the test either, including many of your fellow Germans. And quite a few Russians as well. Whatever consequence you have in mind for the muslims, i hope you have in mind for the europeans and Russians as well.
#73
This is exactly what the Portland '7' had planned for us in Oregon...
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=62613
The conversations ranged from inquiries about bomb making, to talk of cutting the heads off nonbelievers, to a desire to have "real" Muslim wives who would be willing to carry AK-47 assault rifles and be "ready to run and blow something up."
...
He [Jeffrey Leon Battle] had said he wanted to kill hundreds of Jews at a Portland-area synagogue or Jewish school.
...
[Portland Seven] called itself "Katibat Al-Mawt," which federal prosecutors say loosely translates to "Squad of Death."
...
Battle told the informant that he wanted a "blade" to cut off the heads of "kaffirs," or unbelievers.
#74
Huh? Er bombing cafes in Tel Aviv. Shooting at babies in settlements. That sort of thing. France wont let the EU ban all support to the "political wing of Hamas" While no other Euro govt goes that far, there are a large number of europeans who either wont condemn Hamas, or whose condemnation is laden with the lame excuses and qualifications that TGA and others consider unacceptable in the case of muslims. Go to a middle of the road bulletin board, one thats not politically focused but has an area for expressing opinions on politics - one that has large numbers of euros and Canadians and Russians - ask for a flat, unqualified denunciation of Hamas - you will get more weasel words than youd find in a year of CAIR statements. Ive been at one where everybody from gay Torontans to socialist Scots to grumpy former east germans to at least one Catholic Dutchman to bitterly antiAmerican Greeks have extreme difficulty with a simple denunciation of Hamas.
#76
LH, there is a distinction between individuals (who come in all shades of idiots) and states, political leaders, religious leaders and organizations.
First we want clear words from them. If Hamas doesn't clearly denounce terror, there is no "political" Hamas (unless this "political Hamas" severs any ties to the terrorist front and clearly denounces terror as a political means (which will not happen).
After that, anyone who supports organizations that have not clearly denounced terror, will be treated as a supporter of terror.
That's fairly easy. But first we must force them to make a stand. Silence is not an option.
#77
In Auschwitz, German gaurds and seargents, shed their uniforms and put on the striped garb of prisoners, to "blend in". The American soldiers spotted them right away because they were fat and well fed.
As opposed to the jewish "detainees" who were starving to death.
Chechens doing the same, except permitting them water, as another poster noted.
Baby killers... child murderers... subhuman scum... worthy of extinction, unless and until they start bending over backwards to appease us.
Posted by: an dalusian dog ||
09/03/2004 16:46 Comments ||
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#78
Zenster:
Your post on this story, in particular, disgusts me.
You know, I had you pegged a week after I joined this site, but I thought I'd give you a chance. All that happened is that you (at long last) have supported my initial take on you. I figured you'd "blow your cover" in September--once the elections were closer--and you did not fail to disappoint.
Not to mince words: I consider you to be in the same league as Antiwar and Gentle. Your posts are bogus and your agenda is clear. The only difference between them and you, is that you have a more "sophisticated" presentation--it's easy for most people to be fooled by your seeming "erudite," "conservative" monologues.
Here's your game: You like to "talk the conservative talk" in order to, at some later point, (i.e. lately) have a platform (which you have carefully pre-constructed with the "talk") to promote your pro-gay political agenda.
Before I go on further, allow me to congratulate you:
1) Your tough-guy/tough-talk approach is quite believable at first glance. No doubt some will get on my case for getting on yours.
2) You choose your words and your response selections carefully--you only respond to articles that are a "safe haven" for the continuation of the promotion of your carefully-constructed "persona" and political agenda, which entirely depends on people believing you and believing in you.
3) You concentrate on match-responding to the tenor and direction of the comment sections you choose with finesse--echoing the base reaction of most Rantburg regulars to terrorist murder, with singular focus. In other words, when emotions are running high, Zenster is there! An example: "ISLAMISM IS NO LONGER DEVOURING JUST ITS OWN SPAWN, IT IS NOW DEVOURING OUR YOUNG. ALL ISLAMISTS MUST DIE, NOW, NOT LATER."
On to why I find your presence in connection to this story so repulsive: Your unabashed support of the legitimization of gay "marriage" will in the end, "devour our young, " but with even more devastating results. How's that, you ask? Here's how:
The "values" espoused by the homosexual/lesbian activist lobby accomplishes the same thing as the terrorists want--i.e., the Destruction of Western Civilization. The only difference is that it's a slow bleed. By destabilizing family (mother-father-kids) as the quintessential unit for the continuation of society, hedonism takes root. Why? Because marriage and family (the continuance and support of which is diametrically opposed to hedonism) is no longer the foundation for the society. The raising of children isn't a first priority. The societal structures that once held things together, devolve into alternative social constructs allowing for self-oriented pleasure seeking as society's primary goal. The enormous sacrifices, determination, energy and financial resources that go into building a strong, stable society though the auspices of the family structure, are no longer valued, and the FACT that children do best in families with a mother and father who have a strong bond of love and commitment to each other is dismissed as "unnecessary." As an inescapable consequence, children suffer in their social, emotional, psychological and intellectual development, and eventually, (it doesn't take long, actually) the society as a whole is weakened. At that point, nothing matters but the "individual," and the unfettered "freedom" to do anything one pleases.
This, and only this, is the end result of the directives of the political movement of the homosexual/lesbian organizations. Even in their magazines there is an open proclamation to "destroy heterosexual society."
Next: The intentional "blurring" of social definitions of the homosexual/lesbian political movement is totalitarian in nature, and is another reason it should be opposed. By attempting to deconstruct society through redefining "marriage," "family," "sexuality," etc.--which is designed to overthrow the existing power structures which have their roots in a psychologically, emotionally, biologically and politically healthy view of marriage, family and sexuality, the homosexual/lesbian left (whether or not they are masquerading as "right-wing") seeks to impose their unbending and very religious-like, authoritarian counter-structure that would replace not only the moorings of society, but the moorings of the very political structures that have held our nation, in particular, together. "Political Correctness" becomes the replacement standard--which is nothing more than a mask for totalitarian directions in thinking and action.
A word about homosexuality/lesbianism before my final point: There is no such thing as "a homosexual" or "a lesbian" or "a bisexual" or "a transsexual." Rather, biologically-emotionally-psychologically-heterosexual men and women who call themselves "homosexual," "lesbian," "bi," or "trans" are simply regular people engaging in sexually-based activities with members of the same sex, or are bouncing between two preferences, or are trying to escape their own sexuality, for a variety of psychological/emotional reasons. That's it, period.
And it's not difficult to see that a "legitimatization" of such activities, that deviate from the norm, will lead to structures condoning, supporting and eventually promoting that activity, and will, in turn, weaken society.
Legislation that counters that direction should be supported. Heterosexuals (the only type of human on the planet) who are engaging in sexual deviancy of any kind weaken society, and society needs to recognize that. Sure it happens, but it shouldnât be legally supported and afforded recognition for the reasons outlined above.
As further proof of your sidestepping: I was amazed that you go back to yesterday's posting arguments with cingold to try and shore up your reputation. A brilliant strategy--but no cigar. As I recall, cingold was arguing against "blowing all the Indonesians to hell" as you advocated for, because Indonesia is trying to adhere to the rule of law and a constitution. The fact that one of the chiefs of police was taking a former terrorist (who had changed his thinking and is now their major informant against the terrorists and terrorist operations in Indonesia) out to talk and eat "island style" makes sense in that part of the world. Duh. Anyway, the guy has a life sentence because he is in full cooperation with the authorities. The other guys have been sentenced to DEATH. Good for the Indonesians. But you, Zenster, try to discredit cingoldâs point by falsely linking it with the legitimate sentiments of people like Frank G. and jules regarding the situation at the Russian school, and by capitalizing on terminology and confusing the issues. The poster cingold was not "ripping you" for your support of "wetwork" as you assert. He was merely saying your (fake) zeal is misplaced regarding the post on Indonesia. But, you're clever. Sly. As you know, most people will only let their minds record "cingold rips Zenster for being opposed to countering terrorism with strong measures."
Until you renounce your support of that which is as deadly and destructive as Islamic terrorism, and get behind the President--go play somewhere else. I'm sick of watching you toy with the people on Rantburg--regardless of your "kill-kill-kill" masquerade. And the audacity you show posting on this story--i.e. a story about families being destroyed by Islamic totalitarian monsters--when you yourself are a closet totalitarian--makes me sick.
And one final thing, Zenster: Did you notice that this region is populated mainly by âgasp!â ("faith-based") Christians. No doubt they have not yet been "enlightened" by your super-religious âsecularâ mindset.
I am so deeply disturbed by the situation at this school--my heart goes out to the children and families. The photos are so heartbreaking. So many lives destroyed by such horrible "people." It's terrible and frightening to see how easy it is for the terrorists to dismantle their own humanity in the "service" of their politics. To hurt kids like this is just beyond me.
#81
Wow, and to think that *I've* been accused of hijacking threads in the past -- often just because I chose to focus on some point in the thread that wasn't in the title.
But *this*! I'm impressed!
Anyone else thinks that ex-lib needs to go back to his medication?
The only difference is that it's a slow bleed.
Well, there's also the difference that groups of gay activists don't tend to fly airplanes into skyscrapers either, nor do they tend to take schools hostage, nor do they try to erect fascist regimes where everyone's forced to engage into gay sex, nor do they in fact try to force any other people to do what they are doing -- they only want recognition of their own lifestyle as equally legitimate.
Other than that, *sure* there's no difference whatsoever between them and Islamofascist terrorists.
#83
I don't know about medication, Aris, but the language is over the top for me. I don't see homosexuality as the moral equivalent of terrorism, nor the likely cause for the end of the western world. To each their own, ex-lib...
#84
I have been ill thinking about those kids all day. Once I would have hoped that the Russians wouldn't retaliate too heavily and get "civilian" Chechen, but now I just don't care. Level it all Putin, just go on and do it.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
09/03/2004 17:31 Comments ||
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#85
Ex-lib just having his first 'acid experience' Makes Joyce look lucid.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
09/03/2004 17:33 Comments ||
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#86
Even though cingold tried to rip me on my support of wetwork yesterday, I still stand by it.
HUH? Why throw in that gratuitous and inflammatory comment on this (of all) posts. Could it be that you donât really give a damn about these poor kids and families. FOAD! The most pertinent part (to the above statement) of what I said yesterday was:
Promoting âwetworkâ (ah, what a euphemism) in [Indonesia] detracts from the goal of winning the WOT. Again, overkill and un-American.
AND
[W]hy suggest âwetworkâ (which can only undermine the WOT) in a country already working hard to defeat the WOT and bring islamofascists to justice? I found that suggestion to be counterproductive. . . . I do not deny [wetwork has been a common component of American and numerous other countries' covert foreign policy for many decades]; in fact, I can only hope we have all sorts of black forces at work changing the face of the hostile world. But, then, theyâre black -- so no one would really hear about those effort[s] so as to get all worked up over them, right? You might wonder why black ops are black. Might it make sense to not advertise those policies?
But, you already knew all that, right, when you post today about me ripping you over needful covert action?
Iâm with ex-lib, you are a troll -- and it is particularly disgusting to see you do âyour thingâ in the context of todayâs story of tragedy and horror. So, start flying straight and support President Bush or else come clean and admit what youâre up to. Iâm sick of your gung ho, âpro-militaryâ solutions that lack the temper of realism.
Mind you, Iâm all for military and covert answers to the Islamofascist problem, but (being military solutions) those answers are grounded in realism and not pathos.
The history of your past posting is much like the early days of Man Bites Dog -- in that you work awfully hard to come across as a gung ho, pro-military, âknock down the bad guysâ kind of guy -- and then (sprinkled in here and there) you dump all over the Bush administration, essentially calling them all criminals without any proof to back up the slander. Zenster, just because you sound pro-military doesnât mean youâre not just a DU operative (or equivalent) out to slam Bush. Itâs not like you ever offer alternative, realistic solutions, do you?
#87
I know good people between Muslims. But they aren't good because of Islam but despite it. The good Muslims haven't read the book or have flipped the pages appealing to mass murder. Just as there were good people between those who voted for the Nazis, people who helped the old to cross the street, were life-savers and had Jewish friends. People who hadn't read Mein Kampf and didn't understand the evil laying in it. And Islam, like nazism is evil. There are humanistic pages but these are superceeded by the later surates who call to kill all infidels, the good pages are also superceeded by Muhammad's own life who had entire tribes exterminated because he wanted their riches or their women.
We have to quit the kiddy gloves and understand it is time to fight ideologically. More if you are (truly) left wing because for a really left wing person (ie NOT a poseur with rich parents a la Kerry or a la Fonda) Islam stands against every ideal of the left. No Liberty: "Islam" means submission in arabic, Islam forces you to pray five times a day, you aren't allowed to switch religions or talk freely about Muhammad. No equality: Islam places women and non-muslims as third vrate citizens, Islam admits slavery and Islam denies the right to sex for the poor as the rich monopolize women and cynically throws its sex-starved poor as cannon fodder for the Jihad. No fraternity since Kuran calls for extermination and enslavement of non-muslims, for the ethnoic cleansing of the Arabic peninsula, for the non-muslim countries are called Dar-el-Harb: the House of War, the land where Mulims are free to make war, perpetual war.
That is why we have to leave behind the "religion of peace" non-sense behind us. We have to fight Islam and destroy it in the minds of those who to now are Muslims. We have to make them see its evil just as the Allies forced Germans to see the evil of Nazism through visits to the death camps.
I am tired of the apologists and self-haters. Whatever the imperfections and crimes of the West they pale in front of those of its enemies and it gave to humankind ideals like democracy, equality, rule of law not to mention millions of scientific, artistic and technologic achievements. The Western way of life deserves to be defended.
#88
how were gays come into this? goddamer is evrything have to be goddam gay rights issue!
Iâm with you Mucky! Goddamer, indeed!
But, in all fairness to ex-lib, I think her references are made to explain whatâs driving Zenster: as comes out in this thread and this thread. It appears that Zenster just hates Bush -- like Andrew Sullivan -- so much so that heâll attack and undermine the one world leader who is most willing to do what it takes to win WOT, President Bush. But, I wish that werenât the case. Goddamer, indeed, and especially on this thread.
#89
From the look of the other post (lynching of terrorist) looks like there was not a boiling, but a roasting. . . .
- GET HIM mucky GET HIM. Trolls can't simply deal with trying crush of "The Lobster" and his other associates of sea life. 100 poor kids dead and all people can think of is gay rights? What planet is this? That discussion belongs on a post about Domestic Politics.
#90
#78The "values" espoused by the homosexual/lesbian activist lobby accomplishes the same thing as the terrorists want--i.e., the Destruction of Western Civilization.
---------------
Your paranoid eggshell ego is duly noted. I freely admit that there exists a highly vocal minority of gay people who come across with the agenda you indicate. Do I need to mention Fred Phelps? There are highly vocal minorities of every stripe that, given free rein, would cause "the Destruction of Western Civilization."
---------------
By destabilizing family (mother-father-kids) as the quintessential unit for the continuation of society, hedonism takes root.
---------------
While the "gay-nazis" may seek what you so quakingly dread, there are millions of gay people who have no such "agenda" and merely want to live their live unmolested by hysterical hate-mongers like you. It might surprise you to find that many gay people are not hedonists and, instead, are hard working individuals who seek to make positive contributions to a tolerant and fair society, something that is obviously quite beyond your capacity to envision.
---------------
The societal structures that once held things together, devolve into alternative social constructs allowing for self-oriented pleasure seeking as society's primary goal.
---------------
Where in hell did that one come from? I believe there are far more heterosexual "self-oriented pleasure seeking" individuals in this world than can be counted among the gays. Your broadbrush tarring of gays is not just pathetic, but ridiculous. Again, you are being hysterical about what really is a non-existent threat, that is, unless you have an eggshell ego and glass jaw to match.
---------------
The enormous sacrifices, determination, energy and financial resources that go into building a strong, stable society though the auspices of the family structure, are no longer valued
---------------
No longer valued by whom? My gay friends have shown more devotion to their children than many straight couples I've met. Your generalizations are not just wrong, they are patently vicious in their willful misrepresentation.
---------------
The intentional "blurring" of social definitions of the homosexual/lesbian political movement is totalitarian in nature
---------------
Only to intolerant hysterical totalitarian people like you.
---------------
By attempting to deconstruct society through redefining "marriage," "family," "sexuality," etc.--which is designed to overthrow the existing power structures which have their roots in a psychologically, emotionally, biologically and politically healthy view of marriage, family and sexuality, the homosexual/lesbian left (whether or not they are masquerading as "right-wing") seeks to impose their unbending and very religious-like, authoritarian counter-structure that would replace not only the moorings of society, but the moorings of the very political structures that have held our nation, in particular, together. "Political Correctness" becomes the replacement standard--which is nothing more than a mask for totalitarian directions in thinking and action.
---------------
"[D]econstruct society ... overthrow the existing power structures ... unbending and very religious-like, authoritarian counter-structure ..." What have you been smoking? Again, you are attempting to apply the most extreme minority's agenda to the majority. You may as well say that Fred Phelps or Pat Robertson represent all American Christians.
---------------
A word about homosexuality/lesbianism before my final point: There is no such thing as "a homosexual" or "a lesbian" or "a bisexual" or "a transsexual." Rather, biologically-emotionally-psychologically-heterosexual men and women who call themselves "homosexual," "lesbian," "bi," or "trans" are simply regular people engaging in sexually-based activities with members of the same sex, or are bouncing between two preferences, or are trying to escape their own sexuality, for a variety of psychological/emotional reasons. That's it, period.
---------------
There are many scientists who would argue your point. I'll not waste my time on your hysterical raving. Homosexuality has been around a lot longer than modern society, Christianity or you. Your above definition constitutes an eyes-closed-tight with fingers-in-the-ear "la-la-la I can't hear you!" sort of insular mentality that led to the Salem witch trials, the Spanish Inquisition and a host of humaity's most abominable horrors.
---------------
"blowing all the Indonesians to hell" as you advocated for
---------------
I urge you to go back and read the thread. I advocated blowing away Imron, Amrozi and Bashir. Nowhere did I advocate wiping Indonesia off of the map. You're so lazy that you can't even be bothered to correctly cite my own postings. What does that say about you? Here's my exact post:
#1 One simple solution: A wetwork team that blows this maggot's filthy twisted @ss straight to Hell if he is ever spotted outside of prison walls. Same goes for every single one of these slimeballs, including Bashir. Bali must not be forgotten.
Unless you believe me to be accusing all Indonesia of complicity in the Bali bombing, your accusation falls to the ground.
---------------
The poster cingold was not "ripping you" for your support of "wetwork" as you assert.
---------------
cingold most definitely objected to my advocacy of wetwork in Indonesia. He maintained that Indonesia was performing adequately and that covert intervention was not needed. Go read the thread again. Here's cingold's post:
And, regarding âextra-judicial executionâ (setting aside for the moment the issue of foreign policy concerns), now who is trashing the political concepts that make the U.S. so great . . . Again, overkill, and (dare I say it?) un-American.
My explicit point is that "foreign policy concerns" may well require the wetwork I mention. For this I am ripped for being "un-American" (although cingold later clarified upon that statement.)
---------------
Until you renounce your support of that which is as deadly and destructive as Islamic terrorism, and get behind the President--go play somewhere else. I'm sick of watching you toy with the people on Rantburg--regardless of your "kill-kill-kill" masquerade. And the audacity you show posting on this story--i.e. a story about families being destroyed by Islamic totalitarian monsters--when you yourself are a closet totalitarian--makes me sick.
---------------
Your equation of gay rights with terrorism goes beyond hysterical and into the lunatic fringe level of hyperventilating panic. The only stand I make about "kill-kill-kill" has to do with Islamists and terrorists in general.
---------------
And one final thing, Zenster: Did you notice that this region is populated mainly by âgasp!â ("faith-based") Christians. No doubt they have not yet been "enlightened" by your super-religious âsecularâ mindset.
---------------
Why in hell do you think Breslan was selected? Are you really so opaque? Your mind has been so twisted by your own misconceptions that I cannot even pity you. You deserve every iota of the bile, vitriol and raw sewage floating in your veins. The sterile and intolerant vision of society that you stand for has already manifested in history many times. Sixty years ago countless thousands of American went abroad to fight it and many of them died doing so. We are now busy fighting the exact same sort of intolerance you spew all over again.
Demanding that I toe your party line in order to have the least validation for any of my own points is simply laughable.
cingold, you accuse me of being a "troll." Somehow, Fred and the other editors have yet to delete my postings. I think they deserve a lot of credit for assisting freedom of speech and thought.
#91
Zenster, clearly you are a deconstructionist. You want to re-write history in a way that supports your radical social agendas, and you appear driven to experiment with the very fabric of society. Thatâs what I think is upsetting to folks like ex-lib. Personally, I get irritated by your âgung hoâ approach to the WOT, both because I think it trivializes extremely serious issues like what just happened in Russia, and because it clouds the discussion of pragmatic solutions to complex problems like what just happened in Russia. Realism is needed, man, not reactionary pathos.
Also, what appears to be your social agenda keeps butting into and interfering with discussions about how to win the WOT. E.g., your obvious disdain for President Bush, probably because he doesnât back your social sacred cows, seems to blind you to the fact that he is effectively and systematically destroying islamofascism worldwide. Today, you seem upset with whatâs happened in Russia to these families and these kids (as any normal person would be, and as I certainly am), BUT (and I find this weird) there you are taking potshots at my critique of you yesterday (which I really donât find tasteful given the context of this thread). That makes me question your sincerity. What happened in Russia should arouse outrage, but (more so) a steely determination to methodically root out the cancer of islamofascism -- no matter the cost in terms of time, resources, or personal sacrifice.
Tangentially, but perhaps not so (since it keeps popping up in your past postings), the homosexual agenda in the U.S. is deconstructionistic and is not simply some wonderful alternate lifestyle. This site and this site are hosted by homosexuals leaving (or trying to leave) the homosexual lifestyle, and address the issue of homosexual orientation and/or homosexuals raising kids. If these people (who have first-hand experience with the homosexual lifestyle) see problems with the lifestyle, maybe we should too.
Personlly, I donât think childhood, or the military, should be used for social experiments. I also have serious political concerns with the deconstruction of socio-emotional cognitive concepts and schemas, and the traditions and mores honored worldwide and cross-culturally over millennia. Atypical sexual response patterns are nothing to be celebrated (toleration is a different matter). As I read Blackstone, to the extent the behavior is purely private, it remains a matter between the person and the Creator. To the extent it becomes public, the behavior is subject to the Rule of Law, and the traditions and mores of society.
Also, regarding your pithy:
cingold, you accuse me of being a "troll." Somehow, Fred and the other editors have yet to delete my postings. I think they deserve a lot of credit for assisting freedom of speech and thought.
Now, who has a paranoid eggshell ego? Who said anything about deleting your postings? What I love about the U.S. is the ability of people with radically different perspectives to argue about matters of importance and come to consensus on governance and action. If people like you and I and ex-lib and Jen and .com and BigEd and Mike Slyvester and [______fill in the blank] can reach a consensus on something, then maybe thatâs a damn good thing to implement -- given that we have a pretty different take on a lot of other things.
That ability to engage in âcivil discourseâ and reach a common consensus is precisely what the islamofascists are trying to destroy with their blind rush to take over the world and subject the masses to their own brand of unholy hell. What I think a lot of people in the U.S. donât like about the deconstructionist perspective of radical homosexuals (like the ones that kept disrupting the RNC) is that it devalues the U.S. tradition of diverse people engaging in âcivil discourseâ and reaching a common consensus. The âPCâ perspective is just as antagonistic to traditional Western concepts of society and governance as are the islamofascists. So, speak your mind, by all means -- and so will I.
#92
Deletion of postings is the penalty for trolling at the 'burg. It's what made Mr. Davis up 'n leave. I only hope he'll read here that I still want him back. But I am really beginning to fear he has taken up with Gentle as we haven't heard from either for a while.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/03/2004 19:36 Comments ||
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#93
Cingold> E.g., your obvious disdain for President Bush, probably because he doesnât back your social sacred cows, seems to blind you to the fact that he is effectively and systematically destroying islamofascism worldwide
That's not a fact, that's merely your *opinion* about what President Bush is doing.
Your whole posts, both yours and ex-lib's, are synopsised down to "We hate you because you don't like Bush, because you support issues that both we and Bush oppose."
Grow up. Thinking that Bush is incompetent (or even immoral) is as much a legitimate political stance to take as thinking that Kerry is such. And nobody should be told to leave a forum unless they start liking the politicians you like.
#94
Thinking that Bush is incompetent (or even immoral) is as much a legitimate political stance to take as thinking that Kerry is such. And nobody should be told to leave a forum unless they start liking the politicians you like.
Duh. Who said anything different? Oh, I get it, dissent is immaturity.
Um, ex-lib. Who said: "Until you renounce your support of that which is as deadly and destructive as Islamic terrorism [gay rights], and get behind the President--go play somewhere else. "
That was pretty much the whole point of his whole post which started this diversion, though he padded it out to cover a couple pages.
Your whole babble about people discoursing and reaching consensus seems rather meaningless when you address it to the person that *didn't* ask other leave for not sharing his belief, and you didn't address it to the person who did ask it.
#96
Wow, wtf happened to this thread? Lots of innocent Russian kids are dead, parents are grieving - (I have a little boy toddler and can't imagine the agony of such a situation)- and some of you are slap-fighting each other over non-sense. Think I need a beer.
#97
Here are photos of the casualties from AP ... my blood is cold, disgustingly so, desensitized by war and pain, but my conscience is still there, so I say Кровь для крови!
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
09/03/2004 20:24 Comments ||
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#101
As we look down the road and the Russians find out where exactly these terrorists came from - I'm wondering what their ultimate actions are going to be. Wonder how many of the (9?) arab terrorists in the group were from the magic kingdom? Where were these guys trained at & by whose funding? All these questions imho will be answered and then the Russians are going to have to act. I have feeling some chechen villages might be getting razed in the next couple of weeks. My prayers go out to the families of these innocent children, may the great spirit give them strength.
#102
Thank you, Jarhead, for putting us back on track.
By the way, the Russian I inserted was "krov za krov" (?) -- "blood for blood".
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
09/03/2004 22:29 Comments ||
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#103
I was at a party and wasnât able to respond right away. I will now:
I think I was ten-years-old when I first saw the âQuestion Authorityâ bumper sticker. It made sense to me then, and Iâve stuck with it ever since. Unlike many people, who have âgone unquestioningly into the nightâ regarding the favored sacred-cow issues of certain of the academic elites, I hold no topic âoff limitsâ to the plain virtues of free question and debate.
However, it should be noted that for more than 20 years, the homosexual/lesbian political organizations have attempted to equate questioning their points of view and their practices as unwelcome dissent at best, and as the embodiment of everything that would be socially unacceptable and undesirable, at worst. In this way, they attempt to convince people to accept their point of view without question. Nobody wants to be an âintolerantâ backward âracist.â
Zenster is a case in point, and itâs clear that I pushed the right buttons. Instead of reasonably debating/discussing the points I raised, he does the olâ âequate âem with the baddiesâ move.
âYour paranoid eggshell ego is duly noted . . .â
Iâm not paranoid, as everyone knows (BTW--thatâs the âhomo-PHOBIAâ platform), and my ego is hardly fragile.
â . . . hysterical hate-mongers like you . . .â
Nothing I said indicated any level of HATE. Pffft--
â . . . intolerant hysterical totalitarian people like you . . .â
Oh yeah, right. Iâm a totalitarian, as EVERYONE knows!
âYour equation of gay rights with terrorism goes beyond hysterical and into the lunatic fringe level of hyperventilating panic . . .â
Again, heâs trying to equate my points with irrational âpanicâ of some kind. But Iâm not, nor have I been âpanicked.â I wasnât equating gay rights with terrorism anyway--I was equating the gay agenda with totalitarianism. Besides, âgay rightsâ is a false concept, because heterosexual people who are engaging in sexual activities with members of their own sex, who are bouncing between the sexes, or who are trying to escape their sexual identity for psychological reasons, i.e., âgayâ people , already have the same rights as the rest of us. And they, actually, are very intolerant and hate-oriented, Iâve found.
âYour mind has been so twisted by your own misconceptions that I cannot even pity you. You deserve every iota of the bile, vitriol and raw sewage floating in your veins.â
Wow. This sounds the most like Antiwar yet. ALL trolls devolve to this level when you hit the right buttons. Iâm sure most people here can recall that the Antiwar(s) dispatched with the âpeace and loveâ tact, and wished cancer on me--and that I would die a horrible death--because of my condemnation of terrorism, and because I was exposing them.
â . . . (gays are) individuals who seek to make positive contributions to a tolerant and fair society, something that is obviously quite beyond your capacity to envision. . .â
I just love how âtolerant and fairâ Zenster is in this post to me. Again, just like Antiwar. I tolerate people who are doing sexual things outside the norm, but legislating in support of it is a different matter, entirely.
âWhile the "gay-nazis" may seek what you so quakingly dread . . .â
So âquakingly dread?â Ha! How bizarre. I donât âquakingly dreadâ totalitarianism. I just happen to think it totally sucks. And wasnât bringing up anything about âgay-nazisâ, but I guess itâs good that at least he knows there are heterosexual people who are engaging in sexual activities with members of their own sex, who are bouncing between the sexes, or who are trying to escape their sexual identity for psychological reasons, who would like to enact a totalitarian state that they could be in charge of. But thatâs another topic . . .
âHomosexuality has been around a lot longer than modern society, Christianity or you.â
Did he think this was news to me? And whatâs his point? His vitriol against (âfaith-basedâ) Christianity is about the same as it is against terrorism and against me, here today. And that's significant.
(In his opinion I have the ) â . . . sort of insular mentality that led to the Salem witch trials , the Spanish Inquisition and a host of humanity's most abominable horrors.â
Youâve got to be kidding. Now Iâm Sadaam Hussein! No--Iâm Stalin! And uh-hem--it's been concluded that the grain in Salem had been contaminated with a fungus that caused delirium.
âYour mind has been so twisted by your own misconceptions that I cannot even pity you.â
Oh dear. How will I ever go on?
âThe sterile and intolerant vision of society that you stand for has already manifested in history many times. Sixty years ago countless thousands of American went abroad to fight it and many of them died doing so.â
Oh, so now Iâm a Nazi and good American men died to fight save the world from people like me.
Zenster is the most clever TROLL that frequents Rantburg. When he first came here, he perused the internet and listed a lot of information to make himself seem like an âexpert.â Next, he took on a kind of âRamboâ persona--âkill them all, hold Mecca and Medina hostage, etc.â in order to endear himself to the conservatives. His goal is to gain confidences, so that when he puts forth his actual agenda, he can take at least some people his direction--in support of âgay marriageâ and against the re-election of George W. Bush.
I only responded on this thread, because it was Zenster, actually, who was "hijacking" the thread, in the way that I have already identifiied and described. The take-over at the Russian school was so awful, I just couldn't stomach Zenster using it for his usual game.
#104
And another thank you as well, Jarhead. What happened today in Breslan needs to be etched into everyone's collective memory.
I've just scanned both the Google main news page and their world headlines. Guess what? Not a single stinking Muslim organization has stepped up to the microphone and condemned this atrocity. As always, a thundering silence.
I can only agree with you, True German Ally. Your call for an unequivocal showing of hands from all world leaders regarding this atrocity is the most straight-forward and productive suggestion I've seen yet. It would be the best possible thing to clearly choose up sides over this one exact event. Few others will be so binary in nature.
Ex-lib, this is the last I'm gonna bother with a crazy such as yourself who has claimed supporting gay rights is as evil as supporting terrorism: You are a raving lunatic. Get a fucking grip and get a fucking perspective.
#107
The psychology of this thing is much like that of Nazi Germany. Before people can treat another human being in this fashion, they must first utterly discount that the human being has anything worthwhile to contribute.
So what do we see?
The islamofascists strip these poor kids naked, starve them, deprive them of water--dehumanize them. Blinding themselves to the essential humanity of the world in which they live is how they do what they do. Nothing is worthwhile to them, unless it fits within their narrow-minded schema. Our war on terror must not be only military, but we must endeavor to change hearts and minds.
#108
I stand with ex-lib and cingold and Dotcom pretty much says the same about Zenster.
The whole "gay" "marriage" thing is a form of social, cultural and sexual terrorism.
The Left (Commies, Marxists and Socialists) are out to tear down Western Civilization any way they can and so destroying a fundamental institution like traditional marriage is a big goal for them.
The IslamoNazis are out to tear down Western Civilization, too, to replace it with shari'a and Islam so they've joined common cause with the (Western) Left to wage jihad.
Both groups figure they'll win any internecine struggle and get what they want for "their" world later.
Zenster does call for a "Kill them all and let God sort it out" war strategy for the IslamoNazis, yet professes hate for President Bush because he opposes gay marriage and is a Christian.
I just don't know who Gay Rambo is going to vote for.
TGA's heart is in the right place, but the time for "world leaders" to make a statement condemning Islamist terrorism was 9/12/01 and then 10/12/02 (Bali bombing) and then 3/11/04.
And of course, issuing a statement is painless.
Joining the Coalition and putting your money where your mouth is, is something quite different.
Ask Jacques Chirac, who was full of sympathy when he visited Ground Zero after 9/11 but MIA when it came time to deal with the Taliban and Saddam.
As for Breslan, this is a new appallingly horrible "low" for the Islamist evildoers and shows that they will go to any lengths whatsoever to kill "infidels."
Aris, shockingly, does make a good point: Putin is going to have to decide whether he's on our side or the side of the terrorists.
He's got to quite arming and supporting his own and our enemies, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Saddam's Iraq and North Korea before he sees real results in the War on terror at home and before we can really ask him to stand with us to fight this enemy.
Clearly, someone who means business is going to have to go and clean out AQ from the Pankisi Gorge in Georgia someday soon and I have a feeling it will be the Allied Coalition, but Putin's got to work with us to win the war on all the other fronts.
(Aris was wrong about the Caucausus, however, which is apparently why AQ is making their move now.
Russia's too weak and beleaguered to move in.
But there are other world powers that aren't--ahem!)
Two gunmen riding on a motorcycle shot dead a senior Taliban leader on Wednesday, sources told Daily Times on Thursday. Two gunmen riding on a motorbike opened fire at Maulvi Noor Muhamad on Dalazak Road and fled. Maulvi Noor was killed instantly. Sources said that Maulvi Noor was a former Taliban commander in Nangarhar province. "One of Maulvi Noor's killers has been arrested but he is tightlipped about his motive behind the murder," a police source told Daily Times.
However, security forces suspected the murdered man might not be Maulvi Noor. "We showed his photo to an Afghan leader who said that the man was not Maulvi Noor," sources quoted intelligence officials as saying. Nevertheless, an exiled Afghan leader in Peshawar confirmed that the murdered man was Maulvi Noor. Meanwhile, two other Talbian commanders Maulvi Muhammad Suleman and Yahya were reportedly seen in Peshawar. "We are scouring the city in search of them," a police source said.
"We've got 'em surrounded!"
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/03/2004 5:03:16 AM ||
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Fourteen people died and nearly a dozen were wounded in a surge of violence in held Kashmir on Thursday. Police said they shot four militants apparently after they crossed into Indian controlled Kashmir. "The militants were killed once they entered our side after crossing the Line of Control," an Indian police spokesman said. Three militants were shot in the southern district of Rajouri and the fourth was gunned down in Kupwara to the north. Suspected militants overnight shot dead Nazir Malik, a senior official of the state's ruling People's Democratic Party in central Budgam district, police said. Also overnight, militants shot dead a former colleague now working for Indian troops in the southern town of Anantnag, police said.
An 18-year-old Muslim boy was killed and his mother and sister injured by militant gunfire in Rajouri district early Thursday, police said, without giving details. Three militants and a soldier from the Indian army were killed during separate clashes in Kashmir, police said. The police spokesman added that three more Islamic militants died during a clash between Lashkar-e-Taiba and Hizbul Mujahideen. Six paramilitary soldiers and three civilians were injured overnight when suspected Islamic militants hurled a grenade at a patrol guarding Srinagar's Nishat Garden.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/03/2004 4:56:36 AM ||
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12-ton Quran in Gujranwala
According to Jang, Haji Javed Iqbal Khokhar of Gujranwala was putting the finishing touches to a 9-ton Quran written on pages of steel. The stand on which this Quran will be placed is of 3 tons. In all 12 tons of steel will have been used for the preparation of this historically unique Quran for which the people of Gujranwala can be rightly proud.
"Mighty impressive, Haji, but tell me, how do we turn the pages to read it?"
"Don't be an infidel, Mahmoud, you're already supposed to have memorized it!"
General Zahid Ali Akbar's assets
According to Khabrain ex-WAPDA chief General (Retd) Zahid Ali Akbar was first investigated by NAB in 2002 for illegal accumulation of assets in the name of his wife and daughters. It was alleged that after his orders of removal from WAPDA had been received he gave out back-dated contracts of supply of meters to certain companies and received kickbacks. In the course of his job he stashed way Rs 6 billion (approximately $23.95) abroad. Recently DG NAB in Lahore froze the assets of his companies Heroes Academy (school), Designa Knitting and Unitas Construction, because he had absconded from Pakistan. His illegal assets in Pakistan amounted to 100 million rupees (approximately $91.68).
Misconduct in Shandur
According to Khabrain during the Shandur Mela in Northern Areas, Pakistani youths drank wine and smoked hash and then started harassing foreign tourists. No one could stop the youths because they came from powerful families. After some time the tourists ran away from the festival and pitched their tents near the mountain tops to escape the misconduct of the youths.
Are you Qadiani?
Writing in Khabrain, Azam Sultan Suhrawardi stated that Muslims of Pakistan hated the Ahmedis although the Quaid thought they were good Muslims. Pakistanis were in the habit of accusing people of being Qadianis when they hated them. In 1970 Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was accused of being one, after which he gave out an explanation. In 1983 General Zia was accused of being one and he replied saying that this was a mischief of JUI. In 1992 chief minister Manzur Wattoo was accused but later his explanation was published by Sipah Sahaba. In 1997 Asma Jehangir of the Human Rights Commission was accused of being Qadiani but later the newspaper stated that she was not Qadiani but that her husband was. In 2000 General Musharraf was accused too by some who took monetary help from the Sharif family. General Naseerullah Babar and caretaker prime minister Moin Qureshi too were accused of being Qadiani. The latest accusation had been made against finance minister Shaukat Aziz and against the new head of the Council for Islamic Ideology, Dr Khalid Masood, which was a blackmailing ruse.
"Give me R100 billion (approximately $84.78), Mahmoud, or I'll call you a Qadani!"
"No, please, no, anything but that! Um, do you take a check?"
America behind all trouble
Writing in Jang, Nazeer Naji wondered why Pakistan was getting ensnared in trouble in its tribal areas. Who was responsible for getting it involved? He was of the opinion that America was behind the trouble which would start soon in Balochistan too. America was also eying the mineral wealth of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. It already had military bases in Uzbekistan which was also the centre of strength of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. The final objective of these moves would be to encircle China and cause terrorism within its territory.
Qadiani grave violated
According to Khabrain, a Qadiani Malik Feroze Din was buried in a Sunni graveyard in Karailwala in Hafizabad some time ago. The Sunni clerics had raised a hue and cry and gone to the authorities with the request that the grave be opened and the body be removed to a Qadiani graveyard. While the petitions were pending the grave was violated by unknown persons and the body was found removed.
'Maulvi Gang' caught in Hafizabad
According to Jang, a gang of dacoits [bandits] under the leadership of Maulvi Pervez was finally caught after fifteen days of terror in the city. The Maulvis would hire a motorbike then park it running in front of a shop while Maulvi Pervez with his impressive beard would point the pistol at the shopkeepers' temple. The gang made away with a lot of wealth before it was finally hunted down.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/03/2004 4:45:10 AM ||
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#1
Thank God, it's Friday, and thank Paul, it's time again for Nuggets from the Urdu press.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/03/2004 7:36 Comments ||
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#2
"It's Maulvi Pervez and his impressive beard - FLEE!!!"
Must be some beard, man...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/03/2004 11:05 Comments ||
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#3
A steel Quoran, must have been made for the tin woodsman. 12 tons, though. Will need a semi to haul it around.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/03/2004 11:21 Comments ||
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#4
Sounds like it may have been made in the Red October Book Factory #19 during the 3rd 5 year plan during a blitz week. It's all in how you measure production. You want weight? You got weight.
The Profind pages latest news from Moscow 9/2/04 add salt to taste
We have received reports from US sources that Pakistani security forces have captured Osama bin Laden. According to these sources, bin Laden was captured not far from Chitral in the Northern part of Pakistan (between Chitral and Peshawar), approximately 4 weeks ago. This has not yet been confirmed, but we are told the information comes from a source that has provided reliable reports in the past. We received a report almost 2 weeks ago suggesting that two high level Al-Qaeda operatives were being held in Pakistan and it was believed that their capture was to be announced to coincide with the Republican convention. Whether one of these is Osama bin Laden is uncertain.
A little late now, isn't it?
According to the US sources, the capture of the "Big Fish" will not be officially announced until sometime next month, in what is sure to be "Headline" news throughout the world. If the information is correct, it will help bring some "closure" to the 9/11 terrorist attack and bring to justice the worlds most wanted terrorist. Osama bin Laden has not been seen for some time and there have been many reports of his death since the 9/11 attack, although recordings of his voice have been reported quite recently. Whilst his capture would certainly put and end to a long running hunt and mystery, it would also raise a few questions as to why this has not already been announced. Although the US government have played down bin Laden's present importance in Al-Qaeda, there can be no denying that he is still the man they have wanted to catch for almost 3 years. Hopefully, official confirmation on this will be available shortly, so that we can determine whether these are simply rumours or fact. We certainly hope the news is true, but we shall be keeping the champagne on ice for a little while longer, just in case.
Stayed tuned.
Posted by: GK ||
09/03/2004 1:32:54 AM ||
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#11
If he actually were captured, where do you think he is going to end up? In line at the International Court behind Milosevich? Waiting on the other phoneline to talk to Saddam's lawyer? We better hold on to him tightly until the world gets its head out of its a**, clears its collective head, and does a little lifting of its own in the WoT.
#15
If we had OSama, now woudl be the time to reveal it - after the convention boost, this would skyrocket Bush's approval and destroy any momentum Kerry has, and would bury the Democrats anti-war agenda deep while the SwiftVets keep his rating deservedly down by revealign the truth about Kerry's medals, his post-war activities, his congressional testimony and his meeting with the North Vietnamese in Paris.
#16
My OBL Ululator is staying packed in cosmolene until I get the SIGN*
*Fred puts the Fat Lady up on Rantburg
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/03/2004 17:46 Comments ||
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#17
They better have his ass available for viewing, not to mention DNA testing, because I still think ol' Osama's a small pile of worm shit in a collapsed Tora Bora cave.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The three-day school siege in Russia is continuing after a day of dramatic and bloody clashes with reports of up to 150 people dead. At least three gunmen, including their leader, are holed up inside the school. The Interfax agency said they were holding children hostage. The agency reported that 150 people had died and more than 400 children were injured. Dozens of the dead were found in the school gym where gunmen held up to 1,500 children, teachers and parents. The Russian security service FSB said 20 rebels were killed and claimed 10 of them were of Arab rather than Chechen descent.
The soldiers stormed the building after the gunmen opened fire on a group of children who were trying to escape. A Russian security chief said they had not planned to go in. As the school turned into a battleground, other children began to stream out. Then, it seems, the roof which had been mined by the rebels exploded and crashed to the ground. Other hostages were pulled free and collapsed outside, exhausted, shocked and disorientated. Sky's Rachel Amatt, reporting from the school, said the situation descended into chaos with parents flooding into the school grounds as the fighting continued.
