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Uzbeks expel town leaders from Korasuv
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Page 4: Opinion
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Arabia
Saudi political reformers get up to nine years in prison
Posted by: Fred || 05/16/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Nine years for advocating a constitutional monarchy.

But rabid terrorists (and their paymasters) walk around free.
Posted by: john || 05/16/2005 15:58 Comments || Top||

#2  muslim moderate watch.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 15:59 Comments || Top||


Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Uzbeks expel town leaders from Korasuv
Local residents have seized control of Korasuv, a border town in eastern Uzbekistan, driving out representatives of the central government. Angry crowds set government buildings alight and attacked the mayor. The uprising follows the bloody suppression of a demonstration in the nearby city of Andijan on Friday. The BBC's Ian MacWilliam says this is exactly the kind of local rebellion the Uzbek government hoped to prevent by a show of force in Andijan. Hundreds of people are feared to have been killed in that city when troops fired on protesting crowds. At least 500 people have fled into neighbouring Kyrgyzstan, though it is not clear how many were involved in the Andijan demonstration. UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told the BBC there had been "a clear abuse of human rights" in Uzbekistan. The Uzbek foreign ministry dismissed the comments, saying Mr Straw was too far away to know what had happened.

Meanwhile, the residents of Korasuv are meeting to discuss how to run their own affairs, free of interference from the authoritarian government, says our correspondent in the town. As news of the violence in Andijan filtered into Korasuv, local people went to the mayor, demanding that the border crossing to the Kyrgyz side of the town be reopened. When he refused, he was beaten. Angry crowds set fire to the militia headquarters, the road police and the tax inspector's office - the three most hated representatives of the central government, our correspondent says. They then set to work to rebuild two bridges over the border river, reuniting the Uzbek and Kyrgyz sides of the town. The bridges were ripped up more than two years ago in what the government said was a crackdown on cross-border trade. But correspondents say locals saw the move as an attempt to grind them down by denying them access to the thriving market on the other side. They say they now plan to control the frontier crossing themselves and to re-establish trade to provide jobs.
In Ahmed Rashid's book "Jihad: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia", he mentions that the disruption of trade between neighbouring countries is one of the steps that has greatly increased poverty and anger in Uzbenkistan, especially since most of the border regions of neighbouring countries are inhabited by ethnic Uzbeks with familial link over the border.

Uzbekistan's President Islam Karimov has blamed Friday's unrest in Andijan on Islamic extremists operating in Kyrgyzstan. It is unlikely he will tolerate for long a situation where people can cross freely between the two countries, our correspondent says.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 05/16/2005 00:07 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It is unlikely he will tolerate for long a situation where people can cross freely between the two countries, our correspondent says

if you ask me, it sounds more like the people are unlikely to tolerate a situtation where they can not cross freely any longer.
Posted by: 2b || 05/16/2005 7:17 Comments || Top||


Security forces kill 6 suspected militants in southern Russia
ROSTOV-ON-DON: Security forces and police killed six suspected militants, including two female suicide bombers, who had holed up in an apartment in southern Russia, the Federal Security Service said on Sunday. There were no casualties among the officers who conducted the special operation begun Saturday to liquidate the militants in Cherkessk, a city in Russia's southern Caucasus region, said Anna Lyzina, a security service spokeswoman in Cherkessk.

Police and paramilitary troops have moved forcefully against suspected extremists in several cities of the region, which includes Chechnya, over the past year. Lyzina said that the four men and two women who were killed were subordinate to Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev and another alleged rebel, Achimez Gochiyayev, who was implicated in the series of 1999 apartment-house explosions that shook Moscow and other cities and became one of the Kremlin's arguments for launching a new war in Chechnya. Moldable plastic explosives, microchips and various explosive devices were found in the third-floor apartment where the militants were killed, she said. The Interfax news agency quoted an unnamed source in the regional Interior Ministry branch in Cherkessk as saying the militants had refused an order to surrender and had put up fierce resistance, so the decision was made to open fire on them with large-caliber machine-guns fixed to armored personnel car
This article starring:
ACHIMEZ GOCHIYAIEVChechnya
SHAMIL BASAIEVChechnya
Posted by: Fred || 05/16/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Uzbek Soldiers Gunned Down Even Their Comrades Held Hostage
Families of hundreds killed in Uzbekistan when troops opened fire to quell protests buried their dead yesterday as witnesses told of bloody mayhem in which women and children were shot "like rabbits". In a single incident in Andijan on Friday, witnesses said soldiers had fired on a crowd including women and children and their own police comrades who were begging them not to shoot.

Hundreds of bodies lay overnight outside the eastern town's School No. 15 after the massacre until they were removed in the early hours on Saturday, the witnesses, who did not wish to be named, said. Soldiers later moved in among "literally hundreds" of bodies, finishing off some of the wounded with a single bullet, said one witness to Friday's killings outside School No. 15. The two independent eyewitness accounts to Reuters, both by men who live nearby but who asked not to be identified, could not be independently verified. President Islam Karimov said Saturday he had forbidden the use of force against women, children and the elderly. Two days after an uprising in the mostly Muslim Central Asian state's Ferghana Valley, blood and body parts, hastily sprinkled with soil, still lay on the pavements, streets, and gutters in the center of this leafy town of 300,000 people.
Posted by: Fred || 05/16/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  For a brief moment, I fantasized this type of toughness by "W", got a chill, composed myself and shook it off!
Posted by: smn || 05/16/2005 0:47 Comments || Top||

#2  There are medicines that help with delusions and breaks w/reality.
Posted by: Dr. Prozac || 05/16/2005 1:16 Comments || Top||

#3  I wouldn't describe it as toughness.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 05/16/2005 1:57 Comments || Top||

#4  thanks for sharing your sick fantasy smn. POS
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 8:01 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
Rumsfeld prepares for conflict in East Asia. Critics whine.
It looks like Rumsfeld is once again ahead of the curve. All the ankle-biters who want the US military transformed into an anti-insurgency force are outraged. Outraged, I tell ya.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is using some controversial lessons gleaned from the invasion of Iraq to buttress his plans to overhaul the U.S. military.

The unprecedented speed of the assault on Baghdad saved countless U.S. lives, Mr. Rumsfeld has often said. An even faster attack with U.S. forces streaming through Turkey could have crushed Saddam Hussein's Baathist leaders before they disappeared, he suggested in a recent Pentagon press conference, and might have prevented the bloody insurgency from taking hold so strongly.

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 05/16/2005 04:38 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  My 2cs worth is Iraq is a one time thing caused by a unique combination of factors, not least the extra-ordinary dependence on Gulf oil. I don't see a repeat anywhere, including Iran, Nork and the rest of the gulf. Possibly it may reoccur in one of the stans but there will be nothing like the easy access for jihadis that Iraq affords. As far as I can see Rummy is right.
Posted by: phil_b || 05/16/2005 5:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Speed kills (the bad guys).

Imagine how much more successful the invasion would have gone had we had a cooperative Turkey.

There is simply no substitute for speed.
Posted by: Captain America || 05/16/2005 6:30 Comments || Top||

#3  Speed over armor. Yeah, right! Tell that to the guys who get to crew these poorly-protected vehicles.

The British had this concept before WWII, it was called the "Cruiser" tank. It provided entertaining target practice for the enemy.
Posted by: gromky || 05/16/2005 6:58 Comments || Top||

#4  METT-T. Every tactical, operational, and strategic problem has a unique solution and should be analyzed afresh with no preconceptions.
Posted by: 11A5S || 05/16/2005 7:25 Comments || Top||

#5  As with 99% of "doctrinal" battles, it seems, this one is greatly overblown. As in, the prudent course will be to do some of both (or all), it's not an either/or situation. We want more/better language capability, and we want M-1s when we need 'em. And we always want to prosecute operations with speed and maintain the initiative. Grist for many dull, rather pointless & fierce Beltway panel discussions here.

Russian proverb: "two bald men fight over a comb."

Suppose I have to check out the USNI article, however, if only because I thought Rummy's worst comment ever was the bit about no 4ID northern offensive making a material difference in Iraq. While it would have been preferrable to have it, I can't see how it made much difference WRT the dead-ender problem. The Ba'athist/Sunni extremists didn't offer battle -- that's kinda the whole point. And the foreign jihadis (for the most part) weren't present yet, at least not in the organized fashion they are now.

Some 82nd Airborne patrols rolling in vs. a big 4ID column rolling in (Fallujah, Samarra, whatever) don't yield any differences if common sense is applied to some hypothetical situations. The sullen Ba'athist tribal mid-level dude just watches either force and sets about doing their dirty work.

I was happy to save the $5B or whatever it was we saved by having to pay Turkey for their fraternal support. Rummy is exceptionally good on almost every front (probably one of the best cabinet secs in history), but that comment was a puzzler, at least to such as me.

Posted by: Verlaine in Iraq || 05/16/2005 8:10 Comments || Top||

#6  His comment makes sense to me, Verlaine. It's pretty clear that Saddam spread both money and weapons around in the frustratingly slow buildup to the war. However, as we moved from the south, the Ba'athists were able to move north, moving people and money into Syria, out with the Bedouin tribes and into places like Fallujah. A presence in the north from the very beginning would have changed that dynamic significantly, making it potentially much more costly for Syria to enable the insurgency to be planned and sparked from there. It would also have trapped the middle- and lower-echelons of potential insurgents in a vise, probably reducing the local support for them in the sunni triangle and definitely reducing the impunity with which the top Ba'athists were able to operate in that part of Iraq.
Posted by: too true || 05/16/2005 9:18 Comments || Top||

#7  Verlaine: As with 99% of "doctrinal" battles, it seems, this one is greatly overblown. As in, the prudent course will be to do some of both (or all), it's not an either/or situation.

I agree. Greg Jaffe, the WSJ reporter who wrote this story, once called an aircraft carrier a battleship (instead of a warship) during the run-up to the Afghan campaign. I suspect this is another hatchet job conceived to make Rumsfeld look bad. Since the WSJ's news pages are more liberal than those of the New York Times, this story is par for the course.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 05/16/2005 9:43 Comments || Top||

#8  I've been saying this for years:

We need 2 sets of Armed Forces.

1) Traditional - win a war, on ground, air, sea. That means the "get there firstest with the mostest" like the light, high-tech stuff many are advocating, as well as heavy follow-ons like the old M1/Bradley equipped Armored Cavalry regiments, and mech infantry. These would be supported with SpecOps types, like Rangers, Seals, USAF fwd controllers. Lots of USAF fighters, navy carriers, Army Tanks & Airborne, Marine Amphib/Heliborn assault capability.

2) A constabulary. These would be the "Culturally literate" troops whose job would be to stand in after the type-A formations above had done their job, and help rebuild a failed nation-state by acting as the police and civil authority until proper ones had been reconstructed. Basically, they would be trained for counter-insurgency, civil affairs, PR, with light spec-ops added into the mix for raiding and primarily training (Like the Green Berets do). Logistics troops, MPs, light infantry, surveillance capacity, and a bunch of civil engineering units to build bridges and roads, powerlines, water distribution/purification, sewage and telephone systems: the modern infrastructure.

Why 2 separate sets?

Beause we are primarily dealing with failed nation-states that require extensive policing and rebuilding, which will only happen after an invation and dismantling of their current governments and social systems (usually by force of arms, but sometimes they collapse on their own).

But we are also dealing with large heavily armed adversaries in some cases (Korea, China), for which there is no substitute for the "A" forces.

Constabulary troops do not make effective assault troops, and Assault troops do not make an effective constabulary.

We need both types.

And when not in use overseas, the Constabulary troops could be used to augment border security, and help rebuild areas in our own hemisphere Think of the immense amount of good that could be done civil engineers in the poorer parts of Mexico - not only to better their lives, but it also slows the illegals by giving them decent infrastructure where they are (and puts pressure on the socialsit kleptocracy that is the government of Mexico).
Posted by: OldSpook || 05/16/2005 10:15 Comments || Top||

#9  Gromky

The British had a slow but heavily armored tank called the Matilda. Dozens of them were destroyed by a few 88 mm AT guns during operations Brevity and Battleaxe (summer 1941, Lybia). But during the liberation of Paris the 88 AT gun set up by the Germans close to Eiffel Tower was easily taken out by two armored cars who were simply too nimble and fast for it.

Problem is not as much speed versus armor as being on the middle of the road (too litle armor to protect and too slow to evade). Or perhaps the answer to the problem is to have several aces in the sleeve (a fast to aim and reload light AT gun would have been deadly against the thin skinned armored cars but powerless against a Sherman)
Posted by: JFM || 05/16/2005 10:26 Comments || Top||

#10  How about this for a proposal that could solve many great problems for the US military? The creation of a literal "American Foreign Legion". Strictly open to single men, mostly foreign nationals, billeted overseas, led by US military officers, whose emphasis is strictly infantry. That is, "boots on the ground." Now, they would not be toothless, as the regular US military would back them up with heavier and more complicated weapons and technologies, but they would be a force of sheer *numbers*, for these labor intensive programmes and missions the US wants to do. They would carry out the peacekeeping, police, disaster aid, and nation building missions; always with the support of the regular forces. The expenses would be their base pay, US minimum wage for privates, inexpensive billeting, food and medical care, just your basic infantry equipment (they could be given extra as needed), and perpetual training. They should be trained constantly until their discipline is perfect. If they serve their several years' tour, they should be offered US citizenship and induction into the US military, keeping their earned rank. The recruiting line for this American Foreign Legion would be miles long. This answers the question, "How can America have an effective million man army on a budget?" ONE MILLION MEN FOR $10 BILLION A YEAR. WHAT A DEAL!
Posted by: Anonymoose || 05/16/2005 11:56 Comments || Top||

#11  LOL -- or, JFM, were the two vehicles benefitting from limited 88mm AT angles of attack?

Speed for armored vehicles is built on the premise that the enemy will miss as a result ...

OldSpook, are you agreeing (as I have) with Thomas P.M. Barnett of The Pentagon's New Map: War & Peace in the 21st Century fame?
Posted by: Edward Yee || 05/16/2005 12:06 Comments || Top||

#12  Mr. Moose,

Isn't what you describe a good working definition for NATO?
Posted by: AlanC || 05/16/2005 12:07 Comments || Top||

#13  The US needs to allow private mercenary forces to exist on it's territory (with restrictions, I'm not insane), and not get too involved when they go out a-hunting for Osaqma and his playmates. The Army can't do everything that needs to be done.
Posted by: mojo || 05/16/2005 12:48 Comments || Top||

#14  mojo: Americans are very resistant to several ideas found outside the US. And while the French Foreign Legion was expelled from France for misbehavior, the typical American would see them as troops willing to turn their guns on Americans. Americans also have the (unfortunately fading) Posse Comitatus Act, restrictions against quartering soldiers and insistence that its military be as apolitical as possible, with civilian leadership. An essentially mercenary army would make them especially fearful. Now, of course, the "UN first" crowd would want to dispatch them on UN missions under UN control, but this would fail, as these individuals wouldn't *want* to work for the UN, they would want to work for the US. And unlike even the "volunteer" Army, these mercenaries would be under contract, so under no obligation to do crap work for Kofi Annan, despite what John Kerry or Hillary wants. The best part is that while even the largest corporation might only be able to field a Brigade-sized unit, and at considerable expense, a US government funded Army could field one or two million moderately trained infantrymen.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 05/16/2005 14:36 Comments || Top||

#15  I agree with the army on a budget idea. A US foreign legion would be the way to go. The UN pays peace keepers to wear the blue hat or pays the govs they come from. The US could buy peace keepers the same way form divisions. Use US forces as the rank leadership and use the us force units as rapid reaction forces to run in once a enemy is engaged to do what they do best fight in battles.

On the FCS Rumsfield speed planning of future weapons. A lot of the reports are mis-understood the FCS is planned to be light and air mobile for rapid reaction yes with thin armour and speed. However that is for transport reasons. Once on scene from what I have read the idea is continuing flights or shipping in of add on armour packages that could be installed intalled on scene to move to a heavy force. Not to mention there will be a legacy force held for many years to come of the heavy tanks. This option sounds good to me the US needs a rapid reaction force of a couple of divisions that can be flown in fast if needed get a foothold then once in theater strap on some add on packages to to make a heavy force capability. If the 82nd airborn in the Iraq war would have landed ready to fight with some mobile firepower then armoured up and pushed south thier would have been a lot more of those dead enders would have reached thier goal earlier. And a lot of leadership and supplies smuggled out at the last moment would have been seized.
Posted by: C-Low || 05/16/2005 15:19 Comments || Top||

#16  Yep, army on a buget and you get a budget army . I expect man for man the Chinee army is hard to beat cost wise.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2005 19:26 Comments || Top||


Europe
BBC Reports Newsweek Retraction of Koran Story
Posted by: john || 05/16/2005 19:15 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Much too little.

Far too late.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2005 21:35 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
Highly Promoted Muslims Against Terrorism March Draws Dozens
Sat May 14, 7:17 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A march in the US capital organized by the Free Muslims Against Terrorism group, whose members seek to promote democracy while rejecting the use of radical Islam, drew only a few dozen supporters.

This March was promoted heavily. The number of websites promoting it almost exceeded the number of marchers. Who is willing to draw the obvious conclusions.

On its web site {http://www.freemuslims.org/], the group prior to the protest had asked supporters to, "join us in sending a message to radical Muslims and supporters of terrorism that we reject them and that we will do all we can to defeat them.

"We also want to send a message of hope to the people of the Muslim world and the Middle East who seek freedom, democracy and who reject radical Islam that we are with them and that we will do all we can to support them," it said.

doesn't this send the message that Muslims do not reject supporters of terrorism and doesn't it send a message that is discouraging to hope.
Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2005 10:05 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  dozens, eh? speaks volumes.
Posted by: PlanetDan || 05/16/2005 11:12 Comments || Top||

#2  LGF had a pic posted - I think the group at the other end of the square was the rally, either that, or they were waiting for a cab
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 11:24 Comments || Top||

#3  I was considering attending this rally, but after some research I concluded I did not know enough about the organizers to have confidence in adding my voice to their group.
Posted by: Seafarious || 05/16/2005 12:37 Comments || Top||

#4  "Who is willing to draw the obvious conclusions."

Yeah, the lesson is pretty clear, I'd say.
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2005 12:55 Comments || Top||

#5  Sea, Here is a WaPo article featuring Kamal Nawash. Take it for what you will. Muslims' Unheralded Messenger
Posted by: ed || 05/16/2005 12:59 Comments || Top||

#6  nawash seems to be a well intentioned guy, but not one with deep connections or clout in the muslim community - not necessarily because of his opposition to terrorism. There are thousands of muslims in the DC area who are definitely against terrorism - the region is whom to plenty of anti-regime Iranians for example. But I doubt they turned out for this guy.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 13:15 Comments || Top||

#7  should be "home" , not "whom"
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 13:16 Comments || Top||

#8  When, pray tell, will we dispense with the myth of the Moderate Muslim?

It's another meme from the apologists and ostriches. Regards the latter, I think their heads are not buried in the sand, however, they're up their asses.
Posted by: .com || 05/16/2005 13:20 Comments || Top||

#9  Boy, I hope they rented enough port-a-potties.
Posted by: Dreadnought || 05/16/2005 13:50 Comments || Top||

#10  I'm extremely impressed that both US based moderate muslims showed up to protest against koran inspired savagery. Keep up the good work you practioners of the so called ROP.
Posted by: Mark Z. || 05/16/2005 13:57 Comments || Top||

#11  dot com, i thought you were all gung ho for the Iraqi Kurds? Thats 5 million moderate muslims right there. Not to mention all the anti-regime Iranians Michael Ledeen goes on about - is Ledeen apologist?

Ever organized a protest rally dot com? Its not easy. Thats why the lefties rely on ANSWER, even though ANSWER's Stalinism is an embarrasment to them - cause ANSWER can do the hard grunt work of organizing a demo. Which Nawash evidently can't do.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 13:59 Comments || Top||

#12  "both US based moderate muslims"

How about Zalmay Khalilzad, now US ambassador to Iraq? How about the thousands of Iraqis in the US who voted in the Jan 30th election? How about Afghani Americans who have gone back to help rebuild?

Cmon guys - this only proves that this particular guy (a GOP candidate for the legislature a few years back, BTW) aint a big deal - it doesnt say anything about which community is and isnt moderate.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 14:02 Comments || Top||

#13  LH

It may not just be Nawash's organizing skill or lack thereof.

The beliefs of the Free MuslimsAgainstTerrorism includes a number of provision that would get any of them hit with a death fatwa if he was in the Umma.

e.g. - reinterpretation of Islam is necessary
absolute separation of religion and state
equality of woman

- equality of womanarticles
Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2005 14:19 Comments || Top||

#14  Sheesh. Regards the Kurds, indeed - the majority of them are very UN-Islamic in their civility, industry, grasp of democratic ideals, and obvious love of capitalism. Ya got me, sorta, on the Kurds, cuz they just don't seem to be very good Muzzies. So, some solid percentage of 5 million Kurds vs. the oft-bandied 1.2 billion Muzzies.

That the Kurds are indisputably, even by the Grate Apologist for All Things Criticized - LIBERALhawk, UNIQUE rather makes them the least acceptable support for your whitewash.

The evidence in hand indicates you love standing tiptoe on an island of exception in a flood of Muzzie hate. Just scan the articles on any given day in RB and compare them to the positive Moderate Muslim accomplishments you imply exist with that one UNIQUE example.

When you can point to positive accomplishments of Moderate Muslims in combating the real Muslims, let me know - Kurds excepted.

When the 132nd Moderate Muslim Brigade rolls into Tehran and hangs the Mullahs, for instance, then shall I sing your praises and eat a flock of crows.

When the Billion Man Peace March of Moderate Muslims begins dismantling the hate madrassahs and slitting the throats of the Jihadi Imams, I'll be your greatest supporter and fan.

When the Moderate Muslims expose the Jihadi Muslims and translate all those NSA intercepts leading to their arrest and capture, I'll be your bud.

When the Moderate Muslims stop contributing to the "charities" that fund the killing, we'll have a drink.

When the House of Wahhabi can't find a Moderate Muslim venue to subvert and radicalize with oil money, we'll sing "Kumbayah" in harmony.

None of this happens in a vacuum. Read the article titles again and tell me you have a solid case. Show me examples of the positive works of the Moderate Muslims. Show me how they have had enough of the hijacking of their "Religion of Peace" and are taking it back, forcefully.

The Moderate Muslims don't exist in numbers sufficient to accomplish dick. They've had a long time - prime time on the front burner - to prove their existence and make believers and allies. It hasn't happened because it's just bullshit.

A non-jihadi Muslim is just an untapped resource for the jihadists. When a jihadi gets in the face of one of your Moderate Muzzies - he says "Allahu Akbar! Lead me, Master!"
Posted by: .com || 05/16/2005 14:36 Comments || Top||

#15  Love it, dotcom!
You are The Man.
Couldn't agree more: the myth of the "moderate Muslim" is bigger and even more valid than that of the Koran-flushing Gitmo guard.
The pathetic turnout of this rally is proof of that.
I'm must confess, I'd hoped for a huge turnout.
Per your Kurd definition, they've had far bigger turnouts by Muslims against Terror in Iraq, for God's Allah's sake!
Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro || 05/16/2005 14:56 Comments || Top||

#16  Jen! I had heard you were back - Welcome Home!
Posted by: .com || 05/16/2005 15:07 Comments || Top||

#17  jennie is right, theyve had big turnouts by muslims against terror in Iraq, and not just Kurds by any means.

Numbered brigades - yup, Iraqi army units that have taken over much of Baghdad and Mosul, though the MSM neglects that. The afghan army. The Pakis, who, corrupt and penetrated as they are, still get a lot done. The Algerians. Hell, here in RB is where i find the most sources for muslims on our side. Which is limited, since RB will have articles on guys FIGHTING on our side, but not many on ordinary folks just living their lives.

Part of it is what you mean by "our side". If youre looking for guys who are gonna go around with signs saying how great Bush is, no you wont find many muslims saying that - hell you wont find many non-Americans outside eastern europe and some former Soviet Republics (oh, and Lebanon, I suppose, but they may have been Christian Lebanese). But my standards for being antiterrorist arent that high. Ive got four categories of "moderate muslims" that matter. Group A - being against al-qaeeda and its allies in their campaign of violence in muslim countries and the US. Group B - being against ALL terrorism, including so called resistance in Israel and Iraq. Group C - being for a fairer position on women Group D - being against ALL terrorism and for a fairer position on women.

I'll admit group D is not large, worldwide - though it includes rather more than the Kurds - I think it DOES include many Turks, Albanians and Bosnians, a few Indonesians, and quite a number of American muslims. OTOH there are also muslims who fit b or c, but not both. And most important, from the WOT perspective, there are plenty who oppose al qaeeda and its terrorism but make an exception for Israel. Does that drive me crazy - you bet it does. With every fabric of my being it drives me crazy. But ultimately I have to be realistic, and look at this from a US strategic point of view - the anti-Israel propaganda has been going around the region for decades, and is NOT limited to muslims, BTW. Got to put that in a box and deal it with it seperately. Ditto with the feminist stuff. There are millions who dont want anything to do with Wahabism cause it oppose their local traditions, but who aint too enlightened about women. For now they can also be our allies.

Basically, dot com, i just am not comfortable with categorizing people by the group they belong to. If there is even ONE member of the group who doesnt fit the stereotype. Which I guess makes me a liberal, even if I didnt vote for Kerry, even if I supported the war in Iraq, even if I think torture is justified at times in the WOT. But then it also make George Bush and Condi Rice liberals, so i guess im in good company.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 15:53 Comments || Top||

#18  MHW - youre right, there are probably some who would be against terrorism, but wouldnt want to talk about reform of Islam or female equality.

But that cant be all. Hell, Ive been in Iranian restaurants in the DC area, where they have charity boxes for the Iranian student resistance. I mean as far as I can tell alot of these folks are pro-Shah, for Gods sake. I have a hard time beleiving that such folks stayed home for ideological reasons. More likely they said "Nawash, who he?"
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 15:58 Comments || Top||

#19  Be careful not to judge reality by the poor snapshots of caricatures that the MSM choose to dispense to us.

Like pro-Bush Americans, moderate muslims exist in large numbers, but are not given to marches and other public displays of the sort that make for splashy photos. Is this silent movement a silent majority of muslims? I've no idea. But it's pretty clear that there are at least 10m in Iraq, and probably 3x that number in Iran, and perhaps a few million in Egypt and millions more across the other major muslim nations.

I'd be surprised if the number of moderate muslims worldwide was less than 100 million. That's more than critical mass.
Posted by: thibaud (aka lex) || 05/16/2005 16:19 Comments || Top||

#20  Lh - *applause*

You've got a kind of Shimone Peres thing working there - and that's meant as a compliment. I don't accept your divide and conquer categories, a strawman from what I've seen and realized:
When a jihadi gets in the face of one of your Moderate Muzzies - he says "Allahu Akbar! Lead me, Master!"

lex - If I accepted your math, then we're only talking about 1.1Bn asshole Muzzies, then. Critical mass? Sorry, vast mass and even the free radicals are on the other side of the equation.

Look, this isn't going to be anywhere near as easy as fighting Nazism. They were localized, except for a very few well-known pockets.

This is everywhere. You will not know if he's a Muzzy-First Muzzy until he's tested - by a call to support, whether that be funds, safehouse, logistical support, or activation to drive a Splodey-Dope MIED. There is, as far as I can see or recall, NO solid evidence that anyone ever confronted by the jihadis ever did any more than escape their clutches. Certainly not fight them, or capture them. Maybe they drop a dime on them, later... much later when the intel is worthless. Max.

What we see in Iraq, the tip-offs, is encouraging, but if there's any relationship to religion, it's Shi'a vs Sunni. The cold hard fact of it is that if the Jihadis kill enough regular Iraqis then, eventually, almost every Iraqi, Shi'a, anyway, will have that same view of the terrorists that they have of Saddam - because they will have lost family to them. That is hardly a rousing condemnation of radical Islam - it's blood feud. Arab-think doesn't lend itself to acts of selflessness.

Okay. Enough. I said my piece and you said yours. That's the best defense of the Mythical Moderate Muslim that I've ever seen. :-)
Posted by: .com || 05/16/2005 17:24 Comments || Top||

#21  for your benefit im now posting "moderate muslim watch" to any RB article that points out or involves same. No discussion, just a quick label. Hope it helps.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 17:28 Comments || Top||

#22  Aw, you had to go and ruin it. Okay, back to the apologist jerkoff Sale Bin with ya. C'ya round.
Posted by: .com || 05/16/2005 17:33 Comments || Top||

#23  (snif) Like old times.

Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2005 19:30 Comments || Top||

#24  Well at the risk of saying "wait a minute you're both right", I must say "wait a minute you're both right".

Yes there are non Jihadist muslims.
Yes there are a lot of them.

However, yes there are a lot of Jihadist muslims and yes, the non Jihadist muslims are generally impotent against them.

What's even worse, however, is the personality disorder of many muslims, even, maybe especially, the sectarian or doctrinally moderate ones. They can be very rationale, even acknowledging the fact that their coreligionists are into violent jihad then all of a sudden they go into a 'but its the fault of you infidels' or 'if only you infidels would allow us to go on CNN and denounce violent jihad' or 'its the fault of that Islamic traitor x' and then after a bit of that personality it becomes a 'but in the middle ages all the philosophers were Moslem and we invented this and that but we weren't united and...".

Its really a form of tri (or quad)-psychophrenia.
Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2005 21:19 Comments || Top||

#25  Abraham's argument with God about destroying Sodom and Gemorrah, Liberalhawk? Unfortunately, it's a lot easier for God to pick out the few good men from amongst the evil than it is for an American soldier/marine/troop (what is the correct term here??) or politician -- even Bush.

But .com, LH's categories should make it easier to provide reasons for the various types of less radical Muslims to come over to the non-Dark Side, and thus continue whittling down the radicals' support base in Iraq, at least, to begin with. This is not a Bad Thing, and may lead to the development of a class of truly moderate Muslims in time.
Posted by: trailing wife || 05/16/2005 22:45 Comments || Top||

#26  This is not a Bad Thing, and may lead to the development of a class of truly moderate Muslims in time.

Time, however, is not on our side. All the progress in Afghanistan was undone by one Michael Isikoff with one article, and there are a LOT of Michael Isikoffs out there.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2005 23:15 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Tales from the Crossfire Gazette
Two more killed in 'crossfire' Two more suspected underground party members were killed in 'encounter' with the Rapid Action Battalion and the police in Jessore and Chuadanga early Sunday raising the crossfire death toll to 303 since June 2004. The deceased were Siddique Gazi, 35, a regional leader of Purba Banglar Communist Party (ML-Janajuddha), and Jasim, 35, a ringleader and second-in-command of extremist Nuruzzaman Laltu. In Jessore, Siddique accused in at least six cases, including two murders, was arrested on Saturday afternoon from his Baliadanga residence by RAB.
"Afternoon, Sid. Youse coming with us."
On the basis of his statement, RAB was taking him to a brickfield at Chungutia in Noapara industrial area to recover firearms.
Ah, the old deserted brickyard in the dead of night gag. A classic!
But on the way, the associates of Siddique
Surprise!
opened fire on RAB to snatch away their crime boss at about 2:45am.
The light's betteer at 2:45 am, y'see...
RAB also fired back triggering a gunfight.
Nothing like being fired upon to "trigger" a "gunfight". That's assuming there was another party involved, of course.
At one stage, Siddique was killed after being caught in the 'crossfire'.
The local press doesn't believe it either. They just play along to avoid being taken for a late nite ride themselves.
RAB men also recovered one Pakistan-made gun and some bullets from the spot.
Pak-made weapons! The best in... ummm... the area.
In Chuadanga, Jasim wanted in a number of criminal cases, including murder, was arrested by the detective police with the help of the Chuadanga police from Akanbaria on Saturday afternoon. He was killed in an 'encounter' between his associates and the police when the police took him to Akanbaria under Sadar upazila in Chuadanga at about 4:00am.
"Encounters" occur when they don't take him back to the station and extract a "confession" first.


Eight hurt as bombs go off at Bagerhat circus
Eight people were injured, two of them critically, in two explosions at a circus in Bagerhat stadium on Saturday night. The officer-in-charge of Bagerhat Police Station said two bombs went off at the circus in the local stadium at 11:50pm. A trade fair was going on in the stadium at the same time.
So many targets, so little time.
Shahida, 30, and Monir, 14, were admitted to Bagerhat General Hospital in a critical condition. The other injured are receiving treatment at Khulna Medical College and Hospital. Police yesterday arrested four suspects -- Munna Talukder, Ismail Hossain Milon, Mizanur Rahman Dablu and Al Amin -- from the town. A team of senior officials from Bagerhat police and intelligence men are interrogating them.
"Your moustachio wax, sir!"
"Thank you. The number 4 truncheon, please! We'll begin slowly this evening!"
A senior police official said they are trying to find out whether the bombs were planted there or hurled at the circus. Authorities have closed the circus but the trade fair is on amid tightened security measures. The town has been put on high alert and several check points have been set up.

The Rapid Action Battalion (Rab) is preparing a list
Uh oh
BDNEWS, Dhaka:The Rapid Action Battalion (Rab) is preparing a list of businesspersons, who are allegedly patronising dreaded criminals.
As opposed to your normal, average everyday criminals
Those bidnidmen do that all the time. I saw it on Walker, Texas Ranger. I really liked the part where the bad guy drove off in his limo with Walker in hot pursuit and then got out of the car when he wrecked it so Walker could beat him up.
The list will include the businesspersons who seem otherwise clean but keep ties with gangsters for their own interests, said a Rab high official asking not to be identified. "Such an initiative to keep the records of the 'businessmen-godfathers' with the help of the latest technology is underway for the first time," the official added. He said the Rab is preparing the list based on intelligence reports, analysis of newspaper reports and complaints lodged by people. Pichchi Hannan in his confessional statement before his death in 'crossfire' had named his godfathers including a few influential businesspersons, he added. "Not only Pichchi Hannan, many other dreaded criminals have named apparently clean businessmen as their godfathers."
Which might explain why they ended up dead. Hard to testify in court when you're dead.
The Rab is checking financial records and political connections of the businesspersons and their associates while preparing the list, said sources.
Why is it the words "blackmail" and "extortion" come to mind?
The Rab has arrested about 1,000 criminals since the launch of the elite force on March 26 last year. Since then, more than 90 alleged criminals were killed in 'crossfire' or 'encounters' with the Rab.

'RAB committed to curbing crime'
Lieutenant Colonel Hasinur Rahman, commanding officer of the Rapid Action Battalion 5 stationed in Rajshahi, said the battalion was committed to curb crimes at any cost. In a news briefing Saturday morning in the battalion office, he told journalists that his men had been trying to arrest the Islamist vigilante leader, Bangla Bhai. 'No one is above law and no criminals will be spared,' said Hasinur. He said the people who are dying in encounters are hardened criminals. He said the battalion in Rajshahi had been successfully nabbing terrorists and recovering drugs. He hoped to eliminate terrorism shortly. He also vowed to make the region drug free. He indicated that a crackdown will begin soon to arrest ring leaders and smugglers. Hasinur said the battalion was well aware of extra-judicial killing and said the battalion had engaged in no such act. He asked whether a serial killer retains the rights to live at all.
In civilized countries they used to haul them in front of a judge before bumping them off, but I don't think there are any places like that left...
Sources in the battalion said the unit had been trying its best to arrest three suspected criminals — Panna of Bagha, Lal Chand of Lalpur and Shukchand of Daulatpur. They said the criminals had been able to avoid arrest as such criminals stay in remote areas. Hasinur said the battalion wanted to work closely with the people and information gathered from them will be used to arrest criminals and to recover drug substances. The battalion members said modern technology along with database systems, finger print detection system, DNA test and modern forensic laboratories should be used to identify criminals.
Posted by: Steve || 05/16/2005 10:17:53 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  BDNEWS, Dhaka:The Rapid Action Battalion (Rab) is preparing a list of businesspersons, who are allegedly patronising dreaded criminals.

That's easy. Just look for the "We Support Our Local Dreaded Criminal" sticker on the front door of the establishment...
Posted by: tu3031 || 05/16/2005 11:26 Comments || Top||

#2  You know, it would be refreshing if they'd actually use the term "dreaded criminal" here. In the West, we're usually too caught up in calling them activists.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 05/16/2005 11:31 Comments || Top||

#3  Agreed, Phil. RAB should establish a "Dreaded Criminal Chamber of Commerce" to make their accounting easier...
Posted by: Seafarious || 05/16/2005 12:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Em, LMAO.
Posted by: Matt || 05/16/2005 12:23 Comments || Top||

#5  "Morning, sir. I'm from the RAB Dreaded Criminals list-building division.."

"PLEASE DON'T KILL ME!"

"No sir, we have no such intention at this time. Would you care to donate to the RAB Benevolent Fund, by any chance? We're having a raffle this Friday and..."

"PLEASE DON'T KILL ME!"

etc.
Posted by: mojo || 05/16/2005 12:28 Comments || Top||

#6  :)
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2005 12:38 Comments || Top||


Tales from the Crossfire Gazette
Couldn't resist.
An outlawed terrorist died in encounter with RAB at Akandbaria of Sadar upazila in the early hours of today. The victim, Jasim (35), was activist of Purbabanglar Communist Party and wanted in a number of criminal cases including murder, police said.

A revolver and five rounds of bullet were recovered from the place encounter.
No shutter gun?
Some 33 terrorists were killed in crossfire encounters since RAB was deployed in the district last year.

Report from Jessore adds: An outlawed party leader was killed in a shootout between Rapid Action Battalion members and his accomplices at Changuti village in Abhoynagar upazila early on Sunday, RAB sources said.

They arrested Siddiqur Rahman Gazi, 35, a regional leader of Purbo Banglar Communist Party (Janajuddha), from his village Balidanga on Saturday evening.
"Siddiqur, long time no see! Assume the position!"
Following his confessional statement, the RAB men took Gazi out for recovering arms at the dead of night.
"C'mon Siddi, let's go for a 'walk'".
"As they reached Changuti village, the accomplices of Gazi opened fire, forcing the law-enforcers to fire back," said a RAB source.
Can't expect them to hold their fire.
Gazi was caught in the crossfire trying to flee and died on the spot, the sources said.
"Accck! Ouch! Oooch! Rosebud!
One foreign-made gun and four bullets were recovered from the scene.
Hey look! An extra bullet!
The sources said Gazi was an accused in a number of cases, including murder of Awami League leader Atiar.

The body was sent to General Hospital morgue for autopsy. A case was filed.
"Put him over there, Sam, I'm not done with the last one."
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2005 10:11 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Copyright violation! You'll be hearing from my lawyers!
Posted by: Steve || 05/16/2005 11:01 Comments || Top||

#2  First! :-)

Cheez, I waited and waited (see the Poster comments), and finally this morning I said, gorsh, mebbe he's sick, I'd better fill in.

In the future I'll wait til the noon hour :-)
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2005 12:04 Comments || Top||

#3  Since you're a charter member of the AOS, I'll let it pass this time. Once more, and it'll be shutter guns at twenty paces, behind the bus depot, at 3am:)
Posted by: Steve || 05/16/2005 12:34 Comments || Top||

#4  I wonder if maybe shutter gun is a bad tralation for local shooter-gun - which could be a local form of shotgun.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2005 12:41 Comments || Top||


Muslims doubt Quran climbdown
Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan were skeptical after a U.S. magazine backed away from a report that U.S. interrogators desecrated copies of the Quran while questioning prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

The account in Newsweek magazine's May 9 issue has been blamed for sparking deadly riots in Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world. On Sunday, Newsweek backed away from the report and offered its sympathies "to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst."

But Muslims said they suspected that pressure from Washington was behind the magazine's climbdown, Reuters reported Monday. "We will not be deceived by this," Islamic cleric Mullah Sadullah Abu Aman told Reuters in the northern Afghan province of Badakhshan. "This is a decision by America to save itself. It comes because of American pressure. Even an ordinary illiterate peasant understands this and won't accept it."

On Sunday, a group of clerics led by Aman vowed to call for a jihad, or holy war, against the United States in three days unless it handed over the interrogators reported to have desecrated the Quran. He said the call for a holy war still stood. In the May 9 story, Newsweek cited sources as saying investigators looking into abuses at the military prison found interrogators "had placed Qurans on toilets, and in at least one case flushed a holy book down the toilet."

CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen said "desecrating the Quran is a death-penalty offense" in Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan. The Pentagon said last week it was unable to corroborate any case in which interrogators at the U.S. Naval Station in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, defiled the Muslim holy book, as Newsweek reported. At least 15 people were killed and dozens injured last week when thousands of demonstrators marched in Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world, officials and eyewitnesses said.

"Top administration officials have promised to continue looking into the charges, and so will we," Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker wrote in the magazine's May 23 issue, out Sunday. "But we regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst."

Some Afghans, however, were unconvinced. "It's not acceptable now that the magazine says it's made a mistake," Reuters quoted 42-year-old writer and journalist Hafizullah Torab as saying. "No one will accept it." Sayed Elyas Sedaqat, who heads a cultural group in the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad, where the protests began last Tuesday, said: "Possibly, the American government put pressure on the magazine to issue the retraction to avoid the anger of Muslims."

In neighboring Pakistan, a religious party said it was going ahead with a call for protests on May 27. "Newsweek is backtracking, but it's not just their report," said Ghaffar Aziz, a top official of the Jamaat-e-Islami party. "All innocent people released from U.S. custody have said on the record that there was desecration of the Koran."

A spokesman for the Taliban, who denied any involvement in last week's Afghan protests, said the original report was true. "Newsweek is changing its story because of pressure from the U.S. government," Abdul Latif Hakimi told Reuters by telephone.

In Kabul, the U.S. military said it must reach out to the people of Afghanistan in the aftermath of last week's deadly demonstrations. "We want to redouble our efforts to communicate with the Afghan people," said Col. Gary Cheek with the U.S. Army in Kabul. "We want to ensure there is trust and confidence in the U.S." Despite Newsweek's partial retraction, Cheek promised to re-evaluate U.S. military tactics being used in Afghanistan that have drawn criticism from Afghan officials, including President Hamid Karzai. "We continually review our tactics and certainly as the sovereignty of the Afghan government grows they will want more control, and that is correct and proper," Cheek said.

U.S. forces have been criticized for breaking into homes unannounced and for taking people into custody, sometimes on faulty intelligence. "It does us no good to detain someone and make 100 enemies," according to Cheek. "We want to be very balanced in our operations. You can't do that through heavy-handed tactics." Cheek also said the United States wants to engage Afghan religious leaders "to make sure they understand our true values."
Posted by: ed || 05/16/2005 09:53 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "It's not acceptable now that the magazine says it's made a mistake," Reuters quoted 42-year-old writer and journalist Hafizullah Torab as saying.

Of course not. That would mean that all that silly-assed rioting was a mistake.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 05/16/2005 9:57 Comments || Top||

#2  "It's not acceptable now that the magazine says it's made a mistake" Not even if it DID make a mistake. We're on a jihad and we're not backing down. We've lost 15 people on a rumor that a holy dead tree product was flushed down a toilet half way around the world and, by Alan, we want lots more bloodshed.
Posted by: Tom || 05/16/2005 10:02 Comments || Top||

#3  Do we really believe that these idiots needed an obscure reference in a US news mag to incite a religious riot and kill people? It was nothing more than a convienent excuse for some iman to whip up his flock and divert their attention from Islam's delusional view of society and the world. Newsweak is dishonorable and complicit in the anti-Americanism but whats news here. The MSM all have one thing in common - benefit of the doubt will always be on the side that the American government isn't on.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 05/16/2005 10:08 Comments || Top||

#4  "All innocent people released."

Smell the Jihad speak aided and abetted by Newweak. I really thing we should hand these 3 over to the Waki Paki and tell them these are the defilers of the holey korhan. It would serve them all right.

Afganistan is going to slide back into a shithole and more U.S. servicemen are going to die from the acts of these trators at Newsweek. SO hand them over to the Waki Pakis.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 05/16/2005 10:10 Comments || Top||

#5  the irony is this: give 'em a Bible or a Torah, and see how they'd treat it.
Posted by: PlanetDan || 05/16/2005 11:13 Comments || Top||

#6  No need to find out what they'd do with a Bible: OldSpook, in another comment, pointed out how the occupiers of the Church of the NAtivity in Bethlehelm treated the scriptures there. And we know what they've done to Torahs.

Newsweek backtracked when the Pentagon denied the story. The vast majority of questionable military incidents are uncovered by internal pentagon investigations, and their moral backing comes from the fact that Western Man, and Christianity, are naturally self-critical and put a high value on veracity and truth. Unable to uncover crimes on their own, the MSM parasitically exploits these virtues to dig up their stories. These are then presented to a populace sharing the same virtues of brutal self-criticism and honesty. The strength of the story derives, in part and when confronted, not on MSM dilligence, but on the integrity of our Military. The moment KNOWLEDGEABLE military officials denied the story, Newsweek knew it was in trouble. In typical fashion, it started backtracking while throwing mud to cover its obvious retreat.
Posted by: Ptah || 05/16/2005 11:50 Comments || Top||

#7  Newsweek is doing what Newsweek does - sell anti-Americanism to millions of subscribers. The real culprit isn't Newsweek but the Muslim holy warriors who think that it is their divine duty to kill over the alleged desecration of the Koran during a military interrogation. Muslim governments actually spoke out in favor of having the alleged culprits handed over for (capital) punishment. And these guys claim to be moderate.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 05/16/2005 12:43 Comments || Top||

#8  "On Sunday, a group of clerics led by Aman vowed to call for a jihad, or holy war, against the United States in three days unless it handed over the interrogators reported to have desecrated the Quran."

Oh no! Not another Jihad! That makes 4351 Jihads since last year. Hard to keep up.
Posted by: Angitle Fleth2925 || 05/16/2005 13:28 Comments || Top||

#9  Muslims doubt Quran climbdown

"We want to believe"

I caught a story the other day wherein people were suspecting the presence of professional agitators within their protest ranks. Anyone else catch that? I believe it was from out of Afghanistan.
Posted by: eLarson || 05/16/2005 17:04 Comments || Top||

#10  "On Sunday, a group of clerics led by Aman vowed to call for a jihad, or holy war, against the United States in three days unless it handed over the interrogators reported to have desecrated the Quran."

Oh no! Not another Jihad! That makes 4351 Jihads since last year. Hard to keep up.


I want each and every one of you to look deep into your inner maspaja and ask yourself, have I jihadied 30 percentum? Do I have all my limbs? Do I have notches upon my bootheel signifying my faith? If you can't meet your inner Jihad allan requires you to take your turban off and pull out those and dust off thoseKrugerrands right damn now. The muzzam will now drone while you leave screeching.
Posted by: Abu Ike || 05/16/2005 19:21 Comments || Top||

#11  I have a response: "who cares what the fuck you ignorant bastards thinks? Get back to democratizing!"
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 19:37 Comments || Top||

#12  In that part of the world they are so accustomed to being lied to, that is the default position. And of course, in this case they (and we) were indeed lied to -- by Newsweek. So they can't really be blamed for not believing the "correction," especially given how truly weak the correction is.

The real concern, though, is the damage done to the image of America and Americans in that part of the world, where our actions were finally offsetting decades of negative propaganda. I think a case can be made for manslaughter charges against the reporters and the editor who let the article go to print. Even if the prosecution doesn't win, the press will discover that there are consequences for their actions. Ideally, the Karzai government would bring the charges, as it was Afghan citizens who were killed in the riots -- very much a piece with crying "fire" in a theater -- and the entire process would be salutorily painful for Newsweek and the entire world press corps. Freedom of the Press should not mean licence to trigger destruction by deliberately printing falsehoods, or even by conducting so considerably less than due diligence before going to print.
Posted by: trailing wife || 05/16/2005 21:53 Comments || Top||

#13  On Sunday, a group of clerics led by Aman vowed to call for a jihad, or holy war, against the United States in three days unless it handed over the interrogators reported to have desecrated the Quran. He said the call for a holy war still stood."

You know, this might be a good idea. Let's get it over with. It's bound to happen sooner or later, so let's make it sooner. Jihad away, fellas. Let's get it out in the open and settle it now. Better me fighting those crazy bastards then my kids having to do it a decade or two down the road when there's twice as many of them as there are today. I had my fill of their juvenile threats, taunts and boasts a long time ago, and I'd appreciate it if this thing went down while I can still sign up.
Posted by: docob || 05/16/2005 22:09 Comments || Top||

#14  I'm there.

Will the crowd go wild if I suggest that cleaning out America should come first? Will Moose have a heart attack if I suggest a stronger version of the Patriot Act which actually allows us to begin that process, starting with every Muzzy "charity", "institute", "center", "school", etc?

Sadly, it won't happen. The fools are still playing PC with this - even given the fact that we've been repeatedly attacked wherever they could get to us. If knocking down the WTC Towers isn't enough to light a fire under most people, then most people are just too stupid to live.

We've been "at war" with Islam since '73. Still, here we sit, pretending that it's not true and a little more understanding will make things better. Uh, huh, right. The memo seems to have been swept under the carpet.

Nothing will happen until we are hit big, again. Then the shit will might hit the fan. I guess it depends upon who dies. If the WTC victims can be called "Little Eichmanns", and the moonbat author is feted for such insanity, then it will take something really special, with the dead being somebody universally sympathetic.

A Day School for invalid children, no make that orphaned invalid children, on an Indian reservation, perhaps. Is that un-PC enough?

We'll see. Meanwhile, there are plenty of Neros fiddling away.
Posted by: .com || 05/16/2005 22:33 Comments || Top||


Afghan rebels attack from Pakistan
KABUL (Reuters) - Afghan guerrillas are still launching attacks from the safety of neighboring Pakistan despite the Pakistani military's battle against Islamic militants, a U.S. army officer said on Monday. Afghan government and U.S. military accusations that Taliban and other Islamic militants are able to operate from Pakistan have angered Pakistan, a U.S. ally which has been trying to clear militants from its western border region.
"My base, where I live, is in Khost province, and I will say, absolutely, there are insurgents coming across the border from Pakistan attacking into Khost, then returning back into Pakistan," Colonel Gary Cheek told a news conference. Cheek is commander of about 4,000 U.S.-led troops in 16 eastern Afghan provinces, including Khost.
He commended the Pakistani military for operations, launched more than a year ago, to clear militants from the rugged Waziristan region bordering Afghanistan, fighting in which hundreds of Pakistani servicemen have been killed and wounded. "The Pakistani army has done a considerable amount of operations in the Waziristan area and I think they've had a dramatic impact on insurgent activity," he said. "Of course, it still goes on, and we would support greater and more operations by the Pakistani military but it would be wrong of me to be critical of their contributions to the fight."
A rash of bloody clashes in recent weeks have dispelled speculation the rebels might be running out of recruits and resources but Cheek said the rebels were getting weaker. "I would characterise our enemies as significantly weaker than they were a year ago and their influence continues to wane," he said. "Much of the enemy contact we see is limited to the border." Cheek said recent battles were a result of more aggressive patrolling by his men and greater involvement by the fledgling Afghan army, not because of any fresh insurgent offensive.
"The most significant thing that is driving the increase in enemy contacts is the coalition forces," he said. "I would not give credit to the enemy -- that he has orchestrated some grand offensive. I would say we are after him, and that's where a majority of the contacts are coming from." "We are dispersed in a far greater number of areas than we were a year ago," Cheek said.
In the latest violence, two Afghan soldiers were killed and five wounded when their vehicle hit a mine in the southern province of Zabul at the weekend.
Cheek said he was hopeful a government amnesty offer to rank-and-file Taliban members would contribute to peace. President Hamid Karzai has several times offered an amnesty to insurgents and while several Taliban members have given up in recent months there has been no sign that defections are blunting the insurgency.
Posted by: Steve || 05/16/2005 9:05:15 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
Palestinian 'knifeman' shot dead
Israeli troops have shot dead a Palestinian at a military checkpoint near the West Bank town of Tulkarm. Military officials said the man tried to stab a solder and was killed after he ignored warning shots.
Never bring a knife to a gunfight

The Israeli army turned over control of Tulkarm to Palestinian security forces in March but it maintains road blocks in some areas outside the town.
Posted by: Steve || 05/16/2005 9:00:07 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  no houris for sling blade
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 9:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Never bring a knife to a gunfight

Also, never bring a handgun that doesn't start with a "4".
Posted by: Mike || 05/16/2005 11:18 Comments || Top||

#3  This guy never got the message. There was no such program as the "Knifeleman."
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 05/16/2005 21:23 Comments || Top||

#4  LOL SPOD
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 21:28 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
CNN about Newsweek: "People are dead because of what this son of a b. said."
Video. Reporters Izzikoff and Berry named and blamed. "Now it turns out that the Pentagon was right, and Newsweek was wrong."
Posted by: trailing wife || 05/16/2005 06:33 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What is a .swf file? Otherwise people are dead because of nutbag primitives. To blame the MSM plays right into the tranzi agenda. Do you really think we should curtail the media in order to appease these people? Because that is the issue.
Posted by: phil_b || 05/16/2005 7:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Phil: If you want to simplfy the event and boil it all down to one goat, you would be right. The problem for me is that an American publication in a time of war had so little regard for the consequences of their own acts, such little regard for lives of both civilians and military, were so arrogant in running with a story, apparently uncorroborated and in pursuit of their own PERSONAL anti-Bush, anti-American agenda, that they chucked their own rules out the door. Newsweak essentially said, fuck everybody, we're running with this story. And so they fucked evryone and that included themselves.

Do you not think it is important what we say in our news/journalism activities? Do you not think that if this nation is to survive this war against terrorism that some element of our strategy must be preservesd and that the media is rightly at the front lines? Do you not think it is importasnt that we win the PR war, whcih we have been faring at poorly thanks to publications like Newsweak?

Way to go, Newsweak.
Posted by: badanov || 05/16/2005 8:09 Comments || Top||

#3  Do you not think it is important what we say in our news/journalism activities? Yes, I do but appeasement solves nothing. Do you not think that if this nation is to survive this war against terrorism that some element of our strategy must be preservesd and that the media is rightly at the front lines? Absolutely, this is a battle of ideas. Do you not think it is importasnt that we win the PR war, whcih we have been faring at poorly thanks to publications like Newsweak? This is where we differ. This is not a 'PR war'. While spin and agitprop has a role, and may shorten or lengthen the war, it will not materially affect the outcome. This is about our system versus theirs. Places limits on our system in order to appease them or accomodate their system means we lose by a thousand cuts (the tranzi PC leftists agenda).
Posted by: phil_b || 05/16/2005 8:22 Comments || Top||

#4  phil_b and badanov, I think you're both right. I had exactly the same reaction(s) -- contempt for the familiar arrogance, incompetence, and anti-American instincts of the media alongside contempt for the ignorant prejudice of significant parts of the Islamic world.

CNN didn't disappoint, however -- they "balanced" some surprisingly extensive coverage (that is, almost ANY coverage) by making their "confrontation" with Newsweek types fairly marshmallow-ish, and then following with a nauseating classic example of global media-sphere delusion in the form of a softball interview with Fawaz Gerges. He very self-consciously added "misperception" to his idiotic litany about "perceptions" in the Islamic world about the GWoT being in fact (yikes!) a "war on Islam."

But that didn't spoil the picture: one still heard the model sort of "interview" one gets from almost the entire world media, save one or two Fox hosts. Guest commentator parrots ludicrous reigning meme or conventional wisdom (US owes the Islamic world explanations, US owes Europe apologies for being the adult of the planet, US acts "unilaterally," blah blah blah), interviewer silently stipulates all of it and builds on it instead of challenging the premises.

Yesterday CNN-International (the one we see here at the Palace) also demonstrated some amusing "balance." A very well done piece by Ryan Chilcote reporting on an Iraqi security service recruitment center, and the Iraqis who still stream to these places despite the dangers of the job and even of the recruiting centers themselves, was "balanced" by the very next story: a long soft-ball piece on two American deserters in Canada.

When I focus on the fact that the media lost the election and also has been defeated in each of its strategic gambits for a few years running, I find these things hilarious. When I imagine what it would be like to have a non-morally imbecilic western media, specifically the concrete impact on saving lives and hastening our victories, I get furious and frustrated.
Posted by: Verlaine in Iraq || 05/16/2005 8:26 Comments || Top||

#5  Someone remind me: there was a small bruhaha a while back about a fellow who put a crucifix into a jar of urine and called it 'art'. As I recall no one rioted and died, but I might have missed something.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2005 8:46 Comments || Top||

#6 
This is where we differ. This is not a 'PR war'. While spin and agitprop has a role, and may shorten or lengthen the war, it will not materially affect the outcome

Point taken with the PR not materially affecting the outcome. Where we differ is that the WoT is nothing if not a war of ideas. Organizations like Washington Post and Newsweak cast a disdainful glare and have since 911 on the WoT, admittedly not because they are traitors, but because of personal political agendas.

That is an element in this war: if you have the power for your word to be spread far and wide. If we cannot count on our own media to tell the truth; to at least tell all sides of the stories which they have dispassionately and venomously refused to do, then that essentially makes the public relations an immutable element in fighting terrorism.
Posted by: badanov || 05/16/2005 8:46 Comments || Top||

#7  "Places limits on our system in order to appease them or accomodate their system means we lose by a thousand cuts (the tranzi PC leftists agenda)."

What is this "appeasement" stuff??? I don't think anybody gives a shit about "appeasing" Muslims or "accomodating their system". Newsweek lied to undermine the war effort by riling up ignorant Muslims.

And as for "tranzi PC leftists", that's exactly what the MSM are, and that's why they lie: so we'll abandon this war as hopeless, and get back to their agenda of pandering to parasites.
Posted by: Dave D. || 05/16/2005 9:03 Comments || Top||

#8  Steve, we're a little different here. We just show Rodney King getting beaten or those who assaulted him get off in court and then a portion of our population plays the same game as the Swiftian yahoos in Afghanistan but in the streets of LA.
Posted by: Jeper Elmeath5805 || 05/16/2005 9:29 Comments || Top||

#9  While spin and agitprop has a role, and may shorten or lengthen the war, it will not materially affect the outcome.

Forget 'spin' or 'agitprop:' How's about telling the simple damn truth, the whole story. The truth helps our side in immeasurable ways.
Posted by: badanov || 05/16/2005 9:42 Comments || Top||

#10  fine: the truth is, whether a koran was defaced or not, these idiots acted like ignorant savages.
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 9:59 Comments || Top||

#11  Dave D.

Not a lie by Newsweek since they believed their source. Of course they shouldn't have believed the source but that's another question.

Posted by: mhw || 05/16/2005 10:02 Comments || Top||

#12  Jeper Elmeath5805, that statement makes no sense. You might want to try again.

There are a number of instances in which Christian or Jewish holy symbols have been desecrated in this world the last oh, ten to twenty years. None of those incidents have led to riot and murder. But again, I might have missed it.

Whereas, a unconfirmed statement by an unnamed source in an article in a news magazine causes Muslims in a number of places to riot and kill. I'm sure you have an excuse for this.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2005 10:04 Comments || Top||

#13  badanov, the world would be much simpler if we could lay out the facts and reasonable men could consider them and decide what is true. Unfortunately, the world has never been like that and never will be. Its all about persuading people and my point was that some people are persuaded by the cheap gimmicks of spin and agitprop. Others require facts and logic. If spin works to persuade someone then I have no problem using it, even though it doesn't work with me and I have little respect for those it does work with.

regards
Posted by: phil_b || 05/16/2005 10:04 Comments || Top||

#14  mhw - you assume there really is an unnamed source. We'll never know, will we?
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 10:06 Comments || Top||

#15  The truth helps our side in immeasurable ways.

That's the problem; the media doesn't want to do that, because they're basically on the other side.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 05/16/2005 10:09 Comments || Top||

#16  The Arab/Muslims had better thank Allah the we Christian act nice in the face of their barbarity. When the TERRORISTS took over the Church of the Nativity (A VERY CHRISTIAN HOLY PLACE) they desecrated bibles and the entire Church. I did not see a single city riot and kill muslims. Newsweek needs to smarten up and the Arab/Mulims need to grow up. Actually Newsweek need to be sued over this and be made to pay for the damage to US businesses they hurt overseas.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 05/16/2005 10:13 Comments || Top||

#17  CS, thanks for the example, but I rather doubt Jeper Elmeath5805 is going to respond to that one.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2005 10:21 Comments || Top||

#18  Cyber Sarge,
I was waiting to chime in on that point. The Church of the Nativity, by most reports I read, looked like the aftermath of a week long, heck month long, Grateful Dead concert.
Where was the appropraite outrage then?
Posted by: Capsu78 || 05/16/2005 11:19 Comments || Top||

#19  Steve's right. Even if someone had desigrated the Koran, I'm sure it was made to produce a profit for the book company. Especially if an American had it. Just a copy, not the true ONE. This makes them kill, but 40 some bodies found in Bagdad over the weekend, is'nt something to get to purturbed about.
Posted by: plainslow || 05/16/2005 11:21 Comments || Top||

#20  Steve,
Each society or culture has their own 'triggers'. Just because we don't get excited over religion like the mobs in Afghanistan doesn't mean that there are issues that won't send elements of our society into the streets. Understand?
Posted by: Jeper Elmeath5805 || 05/16/2005 11:34 Comments || Top||

#21  Jeper Elmeath5805, Other than another Republican Victory (which will occur again) what might send Americans pouring into the streets on a rampage? Trust me if it didn't happen after 9/11 then there is litte chance of it happening in hte future. We don't get mad we get even (or better than even).
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 05/16/2005 11:58 Comments || Top||

#22  Smoking in restaurants.
Posted by: Shipman || 05/16/2005 12:46 Comments || Top||

#23  CS,
Shall we look forward to another sporting event accompanied by rampage and looting afterward :)
Fortunately confined to locales with major colleges and franchise towns. The death count is lower, but the destruction seems to be as mindless and the cleanup as messy.
Posted by: Jeper Elmeath5805 || 05/16/2005 13:19 Comments || Top||

#24  Jeper Elmeath5805, Good example of stupid poeple rioting but off point. They were CELEBRATING a team winning, not attacking another race/ethnic group because of some percived ill. After Pearl Harbor Americans did not randomly attack people of Japanese decent even with documented proof of their aiding the enemy after that attack. And with some few execptions Arabs/Muslims were not targeted after 9/11 even after it was found that they were aiding the Terrorists. If a Christian/Jews sneezes on the wrong Muslim holy day they are in the streets chanting death to the world. To put it bluntly: THEY NEED TO GROW UP SOCIALLY!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 05/16/2005 13:58 Comments || Top||

#25  Look, what's even more important right now is finding out who the "source" of this load of crap is.

That son of a bitch has the blood of 14 people on his hands every bit as much as the killers responsible for their deaths. He or she is not owed one single bit of protection as an "anonymous source".

I have to find somewhere where I as a subscriber (involuntarily....the hubby needs the English practice, so he subscribed) can demand that they reveal his or her name.

That is, if there even was a source and the reporters weren't just making the whole thing up......
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 05/16/2005 14:18 Comments || Top||

#26  Jeper Elmeath5805, you're being deliberately obtuse. A riot after the Detroit Pistons win a championship isn't the same as a riot in Kabul because somewhere, halfway around the world, someone allegedly desecrated a Qu'ran. To make that comparison is to try to obscure the important point: if there really is to be freedom in the world, people are free to desecrate a holy book. Yours, mine, doesn't matter. People are free to do it without fear of being murdered in response.

I take it, Jeper Elmeath5805, that you consider yourself a 'liberal' person. Okay, take this test: obtain a Bible (try the drawer of a bedside table in a hotel room). Carry the Bible to the busiest intersection of your town. Make a couple of large signs announcing that you're going to set fire to the Bible. Set the signs up and wait a little bit to attract a crowd. Perhaps a TV crew will show up if you call them in advance.

Then set the Bible on fire, right there in public.

Watch the response.

I suspect: nothing much. You might catch a few heated words, a shaking head, you might end up being shunned by a few of your neighbors.

But you won't lose your life. And if anyone did assault you, the law would prosecute that person for doing so. You're protected, you see, you can express yourself however you wish.

You can burn a Bible. A Torah scroll. An American flag. No one will assault you.

But if you burn a Qu'ran, not only might you be murdered yourself, you'll set off riots halfway around the world.

Explain the equivalence of that to a sporting event.
Posted by: Steve White || 05/16/2005 14:32 Comments || Top||

#27  Have the president and Bill Clinton each pick a Senator they trust, and make the reporter give up the mane of the source, with garantees that his/her name will not be distributed, under penalty of law (I know big deal). We need to find out if the reporter made this up, o really had a source.
Posted by: plainslow || 05/16/2005 14:59 Comments || Top||

#28  like that's gonna happen
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 15:53 Comments || Top||

#29  Hey Jeper, what about this?

Posted by: Ptah || 05/16/2005 16:03 Comments || Top||

#30  I think that we need to find something more like a horse radish or somthing to rule the world
Posted by: Unomp Ebbiter1146 || 05/16/2005 16:15 Comments || Top||

#31  dont you want something good to eat like cashews or something like that instead of oranges or banannas??
Posted by: my horse || 05/16/2005 16:17 Comments || Top||

#32  One of the quotes I read, I think from Karzai, said the rioters burned a mosque. Can someone explain that? One Mullah trying to increase his marketshare by taking out the competition? A shia mosque in the wrong part of town?

Are the knuckleheads invovled really that stupid that they can't tell a mosque from a church or temple?
Posted by: rjschwarz || 05/16/2005 17:03 Comments || Top||

#33  Via LGF and the Beeb, it appears that Loseweek has retracted the story.
Posted by: Matt || 05/16/2005 18:44 Comments || Top||

#34  What difference does it make about how Westerners would react to a Bible or Torah being desecrated/burned in public? Where's the relevance to the current situation? The relevent point under discussion is how a primitive tribal Muslim society, whose country our GI's invaded and currently occupy, would predictably react to news of GI's desecrating their hallowed Koran. Every Westerner with 2 brain cells - yes even and especially Mr Izzikoff and Mr.Berry, journalsis at an internationally published journal, would know full well what the reaction would be to their article in Muslim countries.

Our country is at war. Our GI's have won military battles in Afghanistan and Iraq, but the big long range battle these GI's are now fighting, on our behalf (as well as on Berry's and Izzakoff's behalf)in the occupation period is the fight to win "hearts and minds" of Muslims.

These 2 news sluts used a single anonymous source - which is a highly unprofessional approach to reporting even ho-hum omestic "breaking" news stories much less reporting WOT related news which would have such far reaching ramifications. They should be charged with sabotage and Newsweek's owner should be fined BIG TIME. This was conscious, deliberate negligence of the highest order.

If you think Muslims are so pathetic, hopeless, barbaric, unredeemable, pray tell, what is the point of our sacrificing 1600 GI lives and paying $300 Billion to try to redeem these civilizations? Is this just a theoretical exercise that none of you think has any chance of working?

Blaming the Afghans for their reactions is like blaming 2 year olds for being sooooo stupid for burning their hands on a stove plate a parent deliberately left on high heat. The negligence of the adult who deliberately left the stove plate on to see what would happen cannot be excused. What the Afghans did was highly predictable as was the danger created for our GI's and the news sluts did what they did with malice and forethought and should be held accountable because they did it at a time of war. It's like being double fined for speeding through a construction zone. Izzikoff and Berry should have excercised extra care in their reporting at a time of war, particularly since they saw the emotional reactions of the Muslim world to the revelations of Abu Grau.
Posted by: Hupinegum Ebbeans7299 || 05/16/2005 19:03 Comments || Top||

#35  'Liberal' that's a good one.
Please reread the previous posting carefully, before you ASSUME anything.
Note as posted "...same game as the Swiftian yahoos in Afghanistan but in the streets of LA"
Is there any indication of approval in that? Or do you not understand Swift's portrayal of 'yahoos' as low troglodyte creatures merely in human form, debased animals that infest one of Gulliver's Travels. Hardly a positive spin.
Further posted "Each society or culture has their own 'triggers'" You take that as a statement of approval of the actions? You have to be reading into that cause it is not there. Its a simple observation of human behaviors. It neither justfies past, present nor future displays of irrational mob violence.
IMHO Newsweek is guilty of 'crying fire in a crowded theater' and has demonstrated the best use for American torte lawyers in years. Sick a dog on a dog.
Posted by: Jeper Elmeath5805 || 05/16/2005 20:54 Comments || Top||

#36  There ought to be some restitution. Maybe they could provide a free subscription to the family of the deceased.
Posted by: Super Hose || 05/16/2005 21:01 Comments || Top||


Newsweek in the News: a round-up of reports on their screw-up
Wall Street Journal, dead tree version p. B2 In an editor's letter and an article published today, the magazine said parts of its original report were flawed. Newsweek said its original anonymous source recently said he isn't sure that the Quran allegation is actually in the report, and that it might just be a story told by former detainees.

Though Newsweek sent a copy of the item to a Pentagon official before it appeared, the official, who didn't raise questions about the allegation, might not have had detailed knowledge of what was in the report, the magazine said.

Newsweek, which is owned by Washington Post Co., said it began looking into its article on Friday when the Pentagon contacted the magazine to deny the truth of the report. "Certainly the fact that the Pentagon and the top Pentagon spokespeople are denying it and saying we got the story wrong troubles us," editor Mark Whitaker said in an interview.

"This is all we've been able to find out," said Mr. Whitaker. "We suggest we may have gotten something wrong, but we're not entirely sure what we got wrong at this point, frankly."


and WSJ.com Morning Brief Editor Mark Whitaker, in the issue out today, doesn't retract that report but backs away from it. The information, he writes, "came from a knowledgeable U.S. government source, and before deciding whether to publish it we approached two separate Defense Department officials for comment. One declined to give us a response; the other challenged another aspect of the story but did not dispute the Quran charge." Newsweek believed the story newsworthy, he says, because a U.S. official said government investigators turned up evidence of what other news organizations have been attributing to the testimony of detainees.

But on Friday, "a top Pentagon spokesman told us that a review of the probe cited in our story showed that it was never meant to look into charges of Quran desecration," and that an investigation had found such charges "not credible." Moreover, "our original source later said he couldn't be certain about reading of the alleged Quran incident in the report we cited, and said it might have been in other investigative documents or drafts," Mr. Whitaker writes. Newsweek continues to look into the story, he says, adding that "we regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst."



Fox News In a statement, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said the original story was "demonstrably false" and "irresponsible," and "had significant consequences that reverberated throughout Muslim communities around the world."

"Newsweek hid behind anonymous sources, which by their own admission do not withstand scrutiny," Whitman said. "Unfortunately, they cannot retract the damage they have done to this nation or those that were viciously attacked by those false allegations."


Blogger Austin Bay runs with the story, with lots of links. History may see Newsweek's fatal "Koran flushing" story as the US press' Abu Ghraib. (hat tip Instapundit)

Posted by: trailing wife || 05/16/2005 06:33 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Newsweak accomplished it's goal: Further and needlessly endangering American lives.
Posted by: badanov || 05/16/2005 7:57 Comments || Top||

#2  "we approached two separate Defense Department officials for comment. One declined to give us a response; the other challenged another aspect of the story but did not dispute the Quran charge."
If I am a someone you would consider a source, I certainly would not coment on something, I know nothing about. And i certainley would'nt dispute or confirm such a story I did'nt know about. So what about these two guys not knowing about this incident made a reporter think "it must be true, they are hiding something". Sure wish that was OK with my boss, I'd play a lot more golf.
Posted by: plainslow || 05/16/2005 8:14 Comments || Top||

#3  Paraphrasing a relevent line from the film "Capricorn One"

Reporters are plodders. They look for the little things: like facts.
Posted by: badanov || 05/16/2005 8:17 Comments || Top||

#4  This is really so tiresome. Reporters are "citizens" but they try to act as if being a "reporter" puts them above "citizenship". As far as I am concerned all 3 of these asstards should be investigeated by the FBI. If they don't give up their source, they should go to jail and stay. We are in a war. They just made it harder to win, willfully made it harder to win. They have given comfort to our foes. These riots didn't just happen. People who want to destroy sanity used this story to stur up trouble and further their aims. Newsweek and these 3 helped them. I hope someone works them over on the street and leaves them their brains leaking out of their ears.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 05/16/2005 9:30 Comments || Top||

#5  badanov - the common reporter couldn't pass a college level history test yet they pretend to report on it as experts. Give me a break. J-school is for those who can't teach, but can type
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 10:01 Comments || Top||

#6  and: Isikoff is actually one of teh sharper ones - he knew what he was doing. AUnnamed sources should never get in the way of agenda....
Posted by: Frank G || 05/16/2005 10:02 Comments || Top||

#7  SPO'D - What brains?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 05/16/2005 10:54 Comments || Top||

#8  badanov - the common reporter couldn't pass a college level history test yet they pretend to report on it as experts. Give me a break. J-school is for those who can't teach, but can type

Then permit me to file this under the rublik of what they're s'posed to do.
Posted by: badanov || 05/16/2005 11:19 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
U.S. Commander: Afghan Insurgency Weaker
Posted by: ed || 05/16/2005 07:03 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "U.S. and Afghan troops have fought a string of battles with Taliban-led insurgents since early April. About 150 militants have been reported killed in the period, along with 30 members of the Afghan security forces, three U.S. troops and a Romanian soldier."

Muslim moderate watch. 30 afghan security forces killed fighting jihadis. Moment of silence.

Posted by: Liberalhawk || 05/16/2005 16:01 Comments || Top||


Pakistan's Punjab province is jehad factory
I believe a link to this was posted earlier, but I think the article as a whole is worth posting.
Pakistan's Punjab province is the nerve centre of the jehad directed against India and nearly 50 per cent of jehadis belong to this region, says a new book. Quoting a survey of ten large jehadi groups, journalist-author Sushant Sareen's The Jihad Factory reveals that over
10,000 people from Pakistan's Punjab have died for jehad, or Islamic holy war. Of this figure, Afghanistan accounted for some 4,000 deaths while the rest occurred in Jammu and Kashmir.
10,000 people from Pakistan's Punjab have died for jehad, or Islamic holy war. Of this figure, Afghanistan accounted for some 4,000 deaths while the rest occurred in Jammu and Kashmir. The book, published by the Observer Research Foundation, says during a 1998 congregation, the Markaz Dawa al Irshad, the parent organisation of the Lashker-e-Taiba terror group, revealed that during 1993-97, the Lashker lost ten leaders in Jammu and Kashmir. Eight of them were from Punjab. From 1990 to 2002, the Lashker lost 1,500 jehadis in Kashmir, and more than 1,100 of them were from Punjab.
Just a reminder that Pashtuns are hardly the only Jihadi cannon fodder in Pakistan, although it is worth pointing out that Punjabis make up about half of the Pak population, so these statistics aren't as suprising or overwhelming as the article seems to imply.
"Economic disparities, lack of alternative sources of income, the social and geographic structure, existence of semi-literate population and unemployment are all forcing youths in Punjab to succumb to indoctrination," Sareen told the agency.

Of the 500 Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen guerrillas killed in Jammu and Kashmir till 2003, 215 were from Punjab, while 45 were from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, 49 from Sindh and 70 from Jammu and Kashmir. Among the 650 Harkat-ul-Jihad cadres killed in Kashmir so far, 200 were from Punjab and of the 840 Harkat-ul-Mujahideen militants killed there, over 350 were from that province. Since its formation in 2000, Jaish-e-Mohammed has suffered 179 casualties in Jammu and Kashmir. A majority of Jaish guerrillas are from Punjab, especially from Multan, Bahawalpur and Rahim Yar Khan districts, the book says.
The casualty rates are interesting in the sense that we never hear about Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen, but it is apparently a pretty big player in the Kashmir Jihad. Also the other Jihadi groups casualties are dwarfed by Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has been around for less time than most of them.
There were 500 killed through 2003, at which point they were pulled offline, so it would seem.
Speaking about the plight of the Punjab province, Sareen said: "Punjab is not only the nerve centre of the jehad factory, it is also the province that has been most affected by sectarian violence between Shias and Sunnis inside Pakistan." Quoting a Pakistani newspaper, Sareen writes that in Punjab alone, there are more than 2,500 madrassas, most of them concentrated in the southern part of the province. This is one of the reasons why southern Punjab, next to India's borders, is under constant threat of sectarianism. While the Pakistani province provides the maximum cannon fodder for jehad, in recent years guerrilla groups have made considerable inroads in the North West Frontier Province (NWFP), Sindh and Baluchistan.
From what I have read, a great many of these Punjabi Jihadis are actually the descendents of Muslims who fled across the border during the slaughter of partition, and while they were able to integrate with their fellow Punjabis fairly easily, many of them have grown up nursing a deep hatred towards the Hindus who drove them out of their parents homes, making them more susceptible to Jihadi recruitment.
This article starring:
Observer Research Foundation
Sushant Sareen
Harkat-ul-Jihad
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
Jaish-e-Mohammed
Lashker-e-Taiba
Markaz Dawa al Irshad
Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 05/16/2005 00:20 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Aren't the Punjabis the ruling ethnic group in Pakistan, a la the Javanese in Indonesia?
Posted by: Dan Darling || 05/16/2005 0:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Sorry, I just can't resist this image.
Jehad Factory?
Posted by: 3dc || 05/16/2005 1:14 Comments || Top||

#3 
#1 Aren't the Punjabis the ruling ethnic group in Pakistan, a la the Javanese in Indonesia?


Dan, I'm not sure; I don't think they have their own autonomous regions, the way every other kin group of larger than 64 people seems to there.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 05/16/2005 1:34 Comments || Top||

#4  Aren't the Punjabis the ruling ethnic group in Pakistan, a la the Javanese in Indonesia?

That's exactly right, they are the group that dominates the military, civil service and media. They are the only ethnic group that hasn't had a secessionist group active.

I think there is some connection between being the dominant ethnic group in a multi-ethnic country and being attracted to Islam, but i'm not sure why that is.

I could theorise this is because minorities in Muslim countries tend to be attracted to left wing politics because of their 'anti-imperialist, self-determination' creed, while the majority group like the Punjabis and Javanese are attracted to Islamism because it is strongly against any sort of seperatism or 'multi-cultralism', and therefor allow them to couch ethnic chauvanism in the garb of religion.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 05/16/2005 1:56 Comments || Top||

#5  Well, given that they run the government it kind of makes sense for them to embrace Islamism, especially with countries like Pakistan or Indonesia that are already up to their neck in separatist movements. The Islamists believe there can only be one real state, which makes them a handy tool in crushing any separatist elements that spring up. Some of the nuttier aspects of the Hindutva types in India appear to be trying to serve much the same purpose, though not nearly as bloodily because Hindutva doesn't have the divinely-sanctioned one state emphasis that Islamism does.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 05/16/2005 2:28 Comments || Top||

#6  Pak punjabis nurture a belief (from the days of the Raj) that they are a "martial race" and thus superior.

Pre-1971 Pakistani textbooks taught that
"West Pakistanis are tall and fair and eat wheat"
"East Pakistanis are short and dark and eat rice"
Benazir Bhutto herself has blamed this sort of indoctrination for the tolerance of the Punjabi elites towards the Pak Army genocide of the Bengalis.
When the Punjabi society ladies learned of the mass rapes, many commented that "at least the next generation would be fair skinned".
The 1971 uprising by Bengalis was triggered by the refusal of the Punjabis to allow Bengali political power (they were in the majority) or to permit even the Bengali language as coequal to Urdu.
Note that the Pakistan acronym
P unjab A fghania K ashmir I ndus-Sindh STAN does not include provinces like Bengal.

It would be fair to say that Pakistan exists for the Punjabi elite (both the feudal landlords and the Pak Army brass). The Punjabi army elite will tolerate no challenge to their power and privilege. The Army actually predates the state and is superior.

Posted by: john || 05/16/2005 15:55 Comments || Top||


Hezbut Tahrir spearheading Afghan protests?
HT seems to have had a lot more success in non-Arab countries like Central Asia, Indonesia and Europe than they have in Arab countries. I can see that the could appeal to Islamist minded students who would otherwise be turned off by the Talibans primitivism. EFL

in protest against the alleged desecration of the Holy Koran by the US guards at the Guantanamo Bay camp in Cuba, where about 500 Afghans, Pakistanis and other Muslims have been detained by the US authorities without any trial and without giving them any right of access to human rights organisations. The demonstrations, often culminating in violence, which started at Jalalabad near the Pakistan border, have since spread to the northern provinces of Parwan, Kapisa and Takhar, Laghman in the east, Logar and Khost in the southeast and the southern province of Kandahar. It also spread to Kabul itself on May 12,2005. According to latest reports, ten out of the 34 provinces of Afghanistan have been affected by the demonstrations and the resulting violence. The anger of the demonstrators has been directed not only against the US and President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, but also against Pakistan and the UN and Western non-governmental organisations functioning from Afghanistan. Their offices have been attacked, causing considerable property damage everywhere.

Reports of the demonstrations received from several towns indicate the following common features:

* The students spearheaded the demonstrations, in which a large number of educated people participated.
* The demonstrations were not spontaneous. They had been well prepared, and were well organised and well orchestrated. Groups of students went from town to town instigating the local students to take to the streets.
* The demonstrators were not armed and confined their protests to shouting anti-US and anti-Karzai slogans, burning American and Pakistani flags and effigies of Bush, Karzai and Musharraf and attacking properties like buildings and vehicles.
* The demonstrations were not instigated by the Taliban or the Hizb-e-Islami of Gulbuddin Heckmatyar or Al Qaeda. However, elements from the Taliban and the Hizb-e-Islami, who were taken by pleasant surprise by the students taking to the streets, subsequently joined them.
* Many members of the Police and the newly-raised Afghan Army showed sympathy for the demonstrators and were reluctant to use force against them when ordered to do so by their senior officers.

Reports from reliable Afghan sources indicate that the ant-US and anti-Karzai demonstrations have been organised by the Hizbut Tehrir (HT) and not by the Taliban or the Hizb-e-Islami or the Al Qaeda. While one was aware of some HT activities in the student community in Afghanistan, the extent of its penetration not only in the student community, but also in the Afghan security forces has come as a surprise. In their preoccupation with fighting their so-called war against the Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the Hizb-e-Islami, the American intelligence agencies and security forces seem to have remained oblivious of the subterranean activities of the HT and have consequently been taken totally by surprise.
Posted by: Omoluger Ebbatle8086 || 05/16/2005 00:03 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It looks like the only good thing to come from this is that the authorities have become aware of HT -- no doubt long before HT intended -- and can now take action to reduce their influence.
Posted by: trailing wife || 05/16/2005 22:07 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Bodies of 38 Murdered Iraqis Found
The bodies of 38 men shot execution-style were found in three different places in Iraq yesterday as US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made an unannounced visit to try to reach out to minority Sunnis. Insurgents launched brazen attacks yesterday in a campaign apparently aimed at enflaming sectarian tensions, destabilizing Iraq's new government and forcing US-led forces out of the country.

Gunmen in two cars shot dead Industry Ministry official Col. Jassam Mohammed Al-Lahibi and his driver in western Baghdad's Ghazaliyah neighborhood, police and Interior Ministry officials said.

A leading Shiite cleric, Sheikh Qassim Al-Gharawi, and his nephew were shot dead in another drive-by shooting, this time in the capital's New Baghdad neighborhood, according to police Lt. Col. Ahmed Aboud. Gharawi was an aide to Iraq's top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani.

Four groups of men, most bound, blindfolded and shot in the head, where found in Baghdad and locations south and west of the capital. Police in eastern Baghdad's impoverished Sadr City discovered 13 slain men, most appearing to be aged in their 20s and three heavily bearded, lying face down in a shallow grave in a rubbish-covered lot, said police Lt. Col. Shaker Wadi Al-Maliki. The bodies lay on the ground with their hands tied behind their backs, eyes blindfolded and at least three bullet wounds in each of their heads. The men were wearing civilian clothes, but had no identifying documents.

Police made a similar discovery late Saturday in Huqoul, a town in the Latifiyah area, about 40 km south of the capital, said police Capt. Muthna Khalid Ali. The bodies of 11 men with their hands tied behind their backs and fatal bullet wounds to the head were found dumped near a deserted chicken farm, according to Ali. Two trucks riddled with bullet holes were found nearby. Ali said identity documents and keys found on two of the bodies indicated they owned the trucks and were also among 11 truck drivers kidnapped in the area last month.

The bullet-sprayed bodies of Judge Dhia Essa Hamadi, Education Ministry official Mahdi Essa and a bodyguard were found yesterday near the same Huqoul chicken farm, a hospital official said on condition of anonymity. A fourth man who lived nearby, Samir Khudhair Abbas Al-Anbari, was shot in the head and his body dumped on the side of a major road passing through Latifiyah.

In the battleground city of Ramadi, 115 km west of Baghdad, the slain bodies of 10 Iraqi soldiers were found Saturday, an Interior Ministry statement said. The men were shot and their bodies dumped in eastern Ramadi's Abu Obeid area.
Posted by: Fred || 05/16/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  38 mutilated bodies? So what? Muslims have got bigger fish to fry...err...protest. Don't you care about reports of korans being flushed down toilets? Come on...get your priorities straight!
Posted by: Mark Z. || 05/16/2005 14:09 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Tribe vows to support action against terrorists
BAJAUR AGENCY: The Maamond tribe of Bajaur Agency announced that it would assist the political administration in starting an operation against those involved in sheltering foreigners. The announcement was made in the wake of giving sanctuary to dozens of people, including one foreigner by two leaders of the defunct Tehrik-e Nafaz-e-Shariat. The suspected militants include a foreigner arrested in the houses of the defunct organisation's leaders. A jirga was called to take action against those who were sheltering Al Qaeda or any other defunct organisations' workers about three months ago. The jirga had decided to penalise offenders by imposing a fine, burning their houses and driving them out of the area.
Posted by: Fred || 05/16/2005 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Oooh! put a star next to thier names. They are giving the right answer.

Something is starting to click in someplaces, someplaces it's not.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 05/16/2005 3:33 Comments || Top||

#2  Problem is most of these bozo's can't be trusted any further than they can be kicked in the butt or dragged by the nose ring. They switch loyalties on the drop of a hat, small amount of cash, or gentle coercion.
Posted by: Tkat || 05/16/2005 10:42 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Mon 2005-05-16
  Uzbeks expel town leaders from Korasuv
Sun 2005-05-15
  500 reported dead in Uzbek unrest
Sat 2005-05-14
  Qaeda big Predizapped in NWFP
Fri 2005-05-13
  Uprising in Uzbekistan
Thu 2005-05-12
  New al-Qaeda group formed in Algeria
Wed 2005-05-11
  Capitol and White House Evacuated
Tue 2005-05-10
  Attempted Grenade Attack on President Bush?
Mon 2005-05-09
  U.S. Offensive in Western Iraq Kills 75
Sun 2005-05-08
  Aoun Returns From Exile
Sat 2005-05-07
  Egypt Arrests Senior Muslim Brotherhood Leaders
Fri 2005-05-06
  Marines Land on Somali Coast to Hunt Terrs?
Thu 2005-05-05
  20 40 64 Pakistanis Talibs killed
Wed 2005-05-04
  Al-Libbi in Jug!
Tue 2005-05-03
  Iraq: Bloody Battle in the Desert
Mon 2005-05-02
  25 killed in attack on Mosul funeral

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