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Palestinians offer Israel limited truce
Today's Headlines
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Arabia
Yemen Steps Up Security At Aden Port After Terror Alert
Yemeni authorities stepped up security at the southern port of Aden Thursday after receiving information on potential suicide attacks by al-Qaeda, security officials said. The officials told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa that extra police and army troops were deployed around the port's installations and at the Aden oil refinery.

They said authorities received an intelligence alert from a foreign government that al-Qaeda was planning to strike at the port. "We have tightened up security at the port and strict measures are being taken to prevent any attack," one Coast Guard official told dpa by telephone from Aden. The official, who asked not to be identified, said the move followed "information from a friendly country." He would not give further details.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Russia charges 17 for planned terror attacks
Prosecutors in Russia's Tatarstan region have charged 17 people with planning a series of terrorist acts during last year's celebrations marking a millennium since the regional capital was founded, the prosecutor general's office said Thursday. The 17 defendants are accused of membership in an alleged terror group called Islamic Jamaat, and are charged with crimes including terrorism, illegal weapons possession and inciting religious hatred, a statement said.

Prosecutors have submitted the case to Tatarstan's Supreme Court, meaning it could go to trial soon. Investigators also claim the defendants carried out nine murders motivated by religion, and they also were charged with other crimes including abductions and illegal commercial activity, the statement said.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Send more rockets to Iran.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:47 Comments || Top||


Official says 35 Chechen militants surrender
Thirty-five Chechen militants surrendered to the authorities Thursday and handed in their weapons, a government official in the war-ravaged southern Russian region said. Chechen Deputy Premier Adam Delimkhanov said the surrender ceremony in Gudermes, a stronghold of powerful regional Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov, brought the number of people who have renounced the separatist struggle and handed in weapons to 322 since Russian authorities announced an amnesty plan in July.

Russian and Moscow-backed Chechen authorities have been seeking the surrender of separatist fighters as part of an effort to end more than a decade of rebel resistance in the mostly Muslim region, the site of two devastating wars since 1994. Many who surrender join the ranks of Chechnya's security forces, which rights activists accuse of abuses against civilians. Large-scale battles in Chechnya ended years ago, and Kadyrov says rebel numbers are dwindling, but militants continue to target federal forces and local collaborators in regular raids and land mine explosions despite the deaths this year of separatist leaders such as Shamil Basayev.

Also Thursday, police in Chechnya said a blast caused by an apparent gas leak ripped through a house outside the capital, Grozny, injuring six people, including four children. The explosion Wednesday is believed to have been caused by a gas canister leak, regional police said in a statement. On Wednesday, authorities said they had detained a suspected rebel leader in the province's southern Shatoi district and launched a manhunt for several other alleged militants from his group.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Need a couple months of R&R before returning to the struggle?
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:48 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Three killed in bomb blast in India’s Assam
GUWAHATI, India - Suspected anti-India militants exploded a bomb outside a crowded railway station in the northeastern state of Assam on Thursday, killing three people including a six-year-old girl, police said. The blast took place in a taxi parking lot near a military transit camp outside the train station in Guwahati, the biggest city of northeastern India.

While one person was killed instantly another succumbed to his wounds in hospital, police said. The body of a girl, aged about six, was later found at the site and police suspected that she may also have been killed instantly. Five people were wounded.

Police said they suspected the United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA), which has been fighting for the freedom of Assam for more than two decades.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  UFLA is now actively recruiting muslim Bangaldeshis.
With the massive illegal immigration into the state, Assamese are already a minority.
Subjugation to the will of Allah is the next stage for them... ULFA be willing...
Posted by: john || 11/24/2006 20:30 Comments || Top||


Three LeT militants killed in Kashmir
(IANS) Three rebels of the Lashkar-e-Taiba were killed in a gunfight with the police in Doda district here Thursday evening. The militants were hiding in a cave in Hunzer at a height of about 9,000 feet above sea level and opened fire at the police team. The ensuing gunfight that lasted little over two hours left three militants dead. "They have been identified as Mohammad Irfan alias Abu Sohail, Mohammad Ismail alias Abu Ismail and Muddassir alias Abu Hamza," said Shakeel Baig, senior superintendent of police (Jammu). He said two AK-47 rifles and a large quantity of ammunition were recovered from the encounter site.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Alleged LeT man a prize catch
The Delhi police have a strong suspicion that the young aircraft engineer who has been arrested along with another alleged Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) conduit at Dwarka in South-West Delhi was being "groomed" to carry out a terrorist strike at an airport.

During interrogation, Imran Ahmad Kirmani purportedly disclosed that he was persuaded by his brother to quit the job of a technician at an aviation academy in Gurgaon earlier this year.
He used to get a handsome cut from every transaction of hawala money forwarded by him to his brother and other militants in the Valley.
He used to get a handsome cut from every transaction of hawala money forwarded by him to his brother and other militants in the Valley. The money thus earned was much more than what he got as salary from the job.

According to the police, Imran was on the look-out for a job when he was arrested. It is learnt that he had been told by his elder brother to look for a job in a firm linked to airport functioning. As he was an aircraft engineer, Imran had connections with people working at different airports. He purportedly told the police that his brother had suggested that he take up a job at the Indira Gandhi International Airport here. It is not yet clear if Imran's brother or his Pakistani handler Furkan had told him about any future plans to target airports.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Three LT members killed in IHK
Police killed three suspected Islamist militants during a shootout in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) on Thursday, a senior officer said. The gunfight occurred in Doda district, about 160 kilometres north of Jammu, confirmed police officer Manohar Singh. He said that according to the documents recovered from the bodies, the three slain militants had belonged to the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) outfit. The police claim could not be independently verified.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Macedonian consulate blast: Nine Harkat activists acquitted
KARACHI: The Sindh High Court set aside Thursday the conviction of nine activists of the banned Harkatul Mujahideen al-Alami and acquitted them of the honorary Macedonian consulate explosion, killing and dacoity charges. Syed Sohail Akhtar alias Mustafa, Zafar Iqbal alias Sohail, Naeem Rafi alias Nimi, Mohammad Atif alias Kamran, Mohammad Khalid, Mahmoodullah, Abdul Razzaq alias Bhaiya, Samirullah alias Somi and Syed Ahmar Kazmi were sentenced to an aggregate 60 years in prison by an anti-terrorism court in Karachi on August 25, 2004.

They were prosecuted for killing three persons - Hameed Masih, Muhammad Asif and Ghazala Parveen - at midnight on December 5, 2002. The victims were at the consulate’s office in DHA Karachi at the time. The prosecution also alleged that the appellants also committed a dacoity and took the computer, printer, fax machine, PABX and other articles from the consulate. Appellant counsels Abdul Waheed Katpar and M.R. Syed said the prosecution could not prove its case before a trial court and the benefit of the doubt should have been given to the appellants. They said the statements of eyewitnesses were contradictory and could not be relied upon to convict the appellants. They prayed for an acquittal of the appellants from the charges.

Assistant Advocate General Sindh Habib Ahmed supported the trial court judgment and prayed the court to enhance the sentence of the appellants. The SHC’s division bench comprising Justice Rehmat Hussain Jaffery and Justice Yasmeen Abbasey, after hearing the arguments of both sides and perusing the record of the case, for reasons to be recorded later on, set aside the trial court’s conviction and ordered the release of the appellants if they were not involved in other cases.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


3 killed, 9 injured in train station blast in India
GUWAHATI: Three people were killed and nine injured on Thursday when an explosive device went off in a railway station parking lot in the main of Assam, said police. The blast took place in the early evening when a large crowd had packed the area. The explosion killed two instantly, and one man died of his injuries later at hospital, said doctors at the Guwahati Medical College. Police sealed off the station, where three passenger trains were waiting at the time of the blast, and troops set up roadblocks across the city. “The bomb was hidden in a sack and kept on a rickshaw,” said police.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq
Tater Sadr threatens to exit coalition if Bush, Al-Maliki meet
Good chance - make Maliki put up or shut up.
President Bush and Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki are facing a decision whether to keep their scheduled meeting next week in Jordan at the risk of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr making good on a threat to pull his Shiite faction from the fragile coalition government.

The White House sought to show strength in the face of the daunting situation, issuing a statement Friday denouncing recent acts of violence that included the burning Friday of Sunni mosques and worshippers, and car bombings that have killed more than 200 Iraqi civilians in the last two days.

"These ruthless acts of violence are deplorable," White House spokesman Scott Stanzel said. "It is an outrage that terrorists are targeting innocents in a brazen effort to topple a democratically elected government and it's not going to work. Securing Baghdad and gaining control of the violence will be a priority agenda item when President Bush meets with Prime Minister al-Maliki in just a few days."

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Frank G || 11/24/2006 19:06 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  al-Sadr and his Tots need to be stomped so hard they'll have to tunnel up to get into Hell. These idiots are one of the main reasons there's no more security than there is in Iraq. Sadr is on the Iranian payroll. I'm sure several other groups are, including the ones that blew up a huge chunk of Basra yesterday. It's time to show the Iraqi "militias" just how hard our Marines and Army can stomp. I'd suggest using the Air Force to take out the "infrastructure" - or in this case, any structure - in Sadr City, then let the Army and Marines go in to ensure there are no survivors over the age of six.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/24/2006 19:50 Comments || Top||

#2  This is one of those rare occasions where I have to agree with other Rantburgers where it comes to taking the gloves off.

Sadr City and Sadr's Mahdi Army needs to be taken down hard. Rubble the buildings - all of them in the entire neighborhood, kill anything carrying a gun, rubble the rubble, bulldoze the rubble smooth, then salt the remains.

This shit is getting out of hand and we need to do something seriously nasty to put an end to it and make these fools understand just exactly who it is that's in charge over there. If the generals commanding are too gutless to do it, dismiss them and promote from the angry ranks. I know our President is too gutless to order it, but there's always hope.

Posted by: FOTSGreg || 11/24/2006 20:12 Comments || Top||

#3  I totally agree. Unless tater and his city aren't completely crushed, this will be a very long fight eventually leading to a lot of needless American deaths and probably an eventual puss out from the American politicians.
Posted by: Mike N. || 11/24/2006 21:00 Comments || Top||

#4  Sadr City has been a need of massive urban renewal and reconstruction for decades.

May I humbly suggested a sustained period of urban renewal be carried out by the US Air Force, in particular the "reconstructive"-generating aspects of B-2s and B-52s.
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 21:35 Comments || Top||

#5  *humbly suggest*

And the poundng of Sadr City to rubble will have the secondary benefit of sending Tatar's Tots and his bad boyz to hell.
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 21:36 Comments || Top||

#6  As my father always told me "you reap what you soe". Sadr needs to see that
Posted by: plainslow || 11/24/2006 21:53 Comments || Top||

#7  Sadr City (transliterated: Madînat as-Sadr) is a vast low-income neighbourhood in northeastern Baghdad, home to some two million mainly Shi'a Muslims. It is the seat of power of Muqtada al-Sadr, its de facto ruler [citation needed] and grandson of its namesake, Ayatollah Mohammad Sadeq al-Sadr.

Mr Sadr used Friday prayers in the main mosque in Kufa, his headquarters in the Shia heartland south of Baghdad, to focus on Sunni leaders.

Moqtada Sadr's not in town, folks. I say bomb the crap out of both places just to be sure. Maliki drew his line in the sand by demanding the release of death squad leader, Ismail al-Lami. Time for Maliki to pick a side and stay with it. Otherwise, we need to off him, Sadr and all the other militia leaders.


Posted by: Zenster || 11/24/2006 22:06 Comments || Top||

#8  Got him over a barrel! Put one of them MOABs up his a$$ and see how he likes doing the dying for a change! Anybody who lives next to this guy and serves as a inhuman shield deserves to die with him.
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 22:07 Comments || Top||

#9  Am I the only one that thinks its stupid obvious this is nothing but Iranian planned tactics?

Is this or is this not the exact I mean to the tea same senerio the Hezbollah is running on the Lebanese government? Kill kill kill until counter action (democratic style) is taken then they jump up and down and disrupt the government while threating to go violent (which they already did just on a limited scale). Hell you would almost think maybe our enemies have actually studied our ways and how to work within them to counter US.
Posted by: C-Low || 11/24/2006 22:57 Comments || Top||


Mosques torched after worst Iraq bombing
Gunmen bent on revenge burned mosques and homes in a Sunni enclave of Baghdad on Friday as Iraq's leaders pleaded for calm, a day after the worst bomb attack since the U.S. invasion raised the spectre of civil war. Some 30 people were killed, police said, as suspected Shiite militiamen rampaged for hours, untroubled by a curfew enforced in the capital by U.S. and Iraqi forces after bombs killed 202 people in the Shi'ite stronghold of Sadr City.

Four mosques were burnt in a small Sunni part of the mainly Shi'ite Hurriya district in northwest Baghdad, officials said. One witness said 14 people were killed in his mosque during Friday prayers: "It was attacked by rocket-propelled grenades," university teacher Imad al-Din al-Hashemi said. "When the gunmen moved on to attack another mosque, we evacuated the wounded."

Following a daylight raid on a Shi'ite-run ministry building on Thursday, it was the second such bold appearance by guerrillas in Baghdad in as many days. With the competence and sectarian loyalties of Iraq's U.S.-trained security forces in doubt, some fear such clashes could erupt into open warfare. Most Baghdad residents stayed fearfully at home on Friday. The vehicle curfew was extended throughout Saturday.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 16:12 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Very many secondary explosions?
Posted by: Jackal || 11/24/2006 21:10 Comments || Top||


Bombs Kill 22 After Deadly Day in Iraq
Two bombs killed 22 people in northern Iraq on Friday as the government tried to tamp down violence and head off civil war a day after Sunni-Arab insurgents killed 215 people in an attack on Baghdad's Sadr City slum that intensified Shiite anger at the United States. The blasts in Tal Afar, 260 miles northwest of Baghdad, involved explosives hidden in a parked car and in a suicide belt worn by a pedestrian that detonated simultaneously outside a car dealership at 11 a.m., said police Brig. Khalaf al-Jubouri. He said the casualties - 22 dead, 26 wounded - were expected to rise.

In Baghdad, followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr threatened to boycott parliament and the Cabinet if Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki meets with President Bush in Jordan next week, a member of parliament said. Bush and al-Maliki were scheduled to meet Wednesday and Thursday in Amman. The al-Sadr bloc in parliament and government is the backbone of al-Maliki's political support, and its withdrawal, if only temporarily, would be a severe blow to the prime minister's already shaky hold on power.

Legislator Qusai Abdul-Wahab, an al-Sadr follower, said in a statement that U.S. forces were to blame for Thursday's bombings in Sadr City that killed 215 people and wounded 257 because they failed to provide security. The attack was the deadliest of the war so far. "We say occupation forces are fully responsible for these acts, and we call for the withdrawal of occupation forces or setting a timetable for their withdrawal," Abdul-Wahab said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 12:02 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  More of the same. But the Happy Faces crowd on Hannity Street USA insist it's all the MSM's fault for reporting the downside.

So, where's the upside?
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:05 Comments || Top||

#2  So, where's the upside?
22 less?
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 12:20 Comments || Top||

#3  22 less LOL!
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:29 Comments || Top||

#4  "Al-Sadr also challenged sheik Harith al-Dhari, the Sunnis' most influential leader who heads the Association of Muslim Scholars, to issue a fatwa, or religious edict, that condemned Sunni attacks on Shiites. The Shiite cleric said al-Dhari should ban Sunnis from joining al-Qaida in Iraq and organize the reconstruction of the Shiite Golden Dome mosque in Samarra, north of Baghdad. "

This should happen.
Posted by: Penguin || 11/24/2006 14:13 Comments || Top||

#5  It seems like these guys need to "vent" for a while to prove their manhood to each other before they will settle down. It also seems to me that scores to settle that were on the fence before now need to be settled. Perhaps it would be best to let them at each other for a while. In the end it may cost less blood if there was an explosion of violence and the resulting catharsis than it would to try to contain it and get into a steady-state tit-for tat that has no clear beginning or end.

And maybe not.

I wouldn't want to be the guy responsible for managing this one!
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 15:27 Comments || Top||


Shiites Burn Six Sunni Worshippers Alive
Shiite militiamen grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive near an Iraqi army post. The soldiers did not intervene, police Capt. Jamil Hussein said. The savage revenge attack for Thursday's slaughter of 215 people in the Shiite Sadr City slum occurred as members of the Mahdi Army militia burned four mosques, and several homes while killing an unknown number of Sunni residents in the once-mixed Hurriyah neighborhood. Gunmen loyal to radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr began taking over the neighborhood this summer and a majority of its Sunni residents already had fled.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 11:56 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What an Enlightened people!
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:04 Comments || Top||

#2  And here I thought that conversion to submission means safety.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 12:18 Comments || Top||

#3  But at least they didn't burn Korans.
Posted by: JFM || 11/24/2006 12:23 Comments || Top||

#4  How would you know. IMO, the entire Koran mistreatment thing was a ploy to exploit Judeo-Christian sensibilities.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 12:27 Comments || Top||

#5  This Allan fella must be having one hell of a laugh.
Posted by: Xenophon || 11/24/2006 13:10 Comments || Top||

#6  Well, they did have the wrong turban color. Obviously, they had to be killed, they had violated the unwritten law.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 11/24/2006 13:28 Comments || Top||

#7  Open civil war along sectarian lines is what this is. Time for a boot on the neck to remind these folks of the bad old days under Saddam.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 11/24/2006 16:38 Comments || Top||

#8  Truth is stranger than fiction.

The Last Battlefield
Posted by: doc || 11/24/2006 17:03 Comments || Top||


The Empire Shia Strike Back
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen attacked a Sunni enclave in a mainly Shi'ite district in northwestern Baghdad on Friday, burning four mosques and homes, an Interior Ministry official said.

The attack occurred a day after a series of blasts killed more than 200 people in the Shi'ite stronghold of Sadr City, sparking fears of reprisal killings. Iraq's government slapped a curfew on the capital in a bid to prevent such attacks.

The ministry official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the number of casualties was not known, but a resident of Hurriya district, Imad al-Din al-Hashemi, told Reuters he had counted 18 bodies and at least 24 wounded.

They attacked four mosques with rocket-propelled grenades and machinegun fire. The attacks began at midday," said Hashemi, a university academic, who said he was helping to evacuate people from their homes.

He said at least four houses were on fire and that three of the victims, two women and a child, had died of smoke inhalation.

The Interior Ministry official said at least two of the mosques had been attacked by rocket-propelled grenades. Residents were appealing for firefighters and ambulances but the area was too dangerous for police to send reinforcements.
Sounds like a pick-up game.
'Classic' flag set for this post and comments. AoS.
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 10:25 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Et le combat cessa, faute de combattants.
Le Cid-Corneille.
And the combat ceased, for want of combatants.
Posted by: SwissTex || 11/24/2006 10:40 Comments || Top||

#2  So stay away from the mosques and you'll be safe.
Posted by: Sleaper Thraviter2776 || 11/24/2006 11:03 Comments || Top||

#3  They attacked four mosques with rocket-propelled grenades Wonder if there were any large secondary explosions.
Posted by: GK || 11/24/2006 11:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Related story. Shiite militiamen grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive near Iraqi soldiers who did not intervene, police Capt. Jamil Hussein said.
Posted by: GK || 11/24/2006 11:25 Comments || Top||

#5  I believe yesterday's bombings are the pivot point of their civil war. alQ has, for all intents and purposes, doomed the Sunnis. These people really will go medieval - they've been stuck at that point since Mohammed, so it's nothing new.
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 11:34 Comments || Top||

#6  Wasabi popcorn.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:38 Comments || Top||

#7  As the thoughtful observers noted early this year, the "civil war" started when Sunnis suddenly were victims of terrorist violence. But that observation isn't just about the appalling Sunni bigotry and moral inversion in the region and the world media - the Coalition's incompetence is also highlighted.

The slaughter of Shi'a innocents (a la the Sadr City bombs, which are simply more of what's been going on steadily for over two years) was allowed to proceed as though it wasn't worth stopping (might retard the independent development of Iraqi security forces by 2.5 weeks, oh no! can't do that) and wouldn't have consequences (let's see, where did this pesky militia problem come from? why have the pre-war militias been joined by much bigger and more problematic groupings? it's like they feel the need to defend themselves or something - boy, these Iraqis are primitive).

While the entire enterprise begins to collapse around them (and their political base at home has already largely collapsed), the leadership no doubt continues to cling to its twin delusions that the only important thing is not to take any action to help hold things together, lest it delay full Iraqi capacity by a few days, and that the Sunnis can be incorporated into a new Iraq before their violent resistance or collaboration with same has been utterly crushed.

I was present as an observer at initial meetings on ways to maximize the impact of the Baghdad security plan, phase one. The first moment of the first meeting said it all - the operations chief of the maneuver unit in charge told a stunned and deflated group over a teleconference that the bold, all-out effort to get control of Baghdad once and for all was in fact another leverage operation, involving limited resources, and that some US and Iraqi units would be moving out of town within the first 10 days to perform other tasks in Diyala and somewhere else. What followed actually contained some useful, long overdue elements (Dora district was substantially cleaned up) - but clearly it wasn't a serious operation (defined as one that ramps up the severity and scope of the impact on the target communities until you achieve your short-term objective).

None of this is easy, and some mistakes are to be expected and don't reflect any lack of capability - but clear-eyed US soldiers and just about any Iraqi who will talk have been pointing out for over two years that everything must start with sufficient subjugation of the Sunni community such that it is no longer the base for attacks on other Iraqis and the Coalition. We have tried everything except that - with unsurprising results.

A measure of the madness is that many true-believing DOD and uniformed folks will now respond, quite naturally, that "it's not our war to win" when one points out the precariousness of the situation. Nice perspective, that: the whole Iraq enterprise teeters on the brink of failure in almost every sense (primary goal of regime removal is in the bag), with potentially grave implications for our regional standing and global campaign, and "it's not our war to win". Perhaps this inexplicable viewpoint "explains" the otherwise incomprehensible passivity and attachment to irrelevant methodological principles that have seen us struggle against one of the weakest enemies we've ever faced.
Posted by: Verlaine || 11/24/2006 11:53 Comments || Top||

#8  As Shiite and Sunni beat the Shiite out of each other, kindly explain to me why, with the exception of the grateful, democratic (by regional standards at least), pro-American Kurds, we are expending blood and treasure for these lunatics?

Let Iraq be Iraq, even if that means wholesale slaughter of each other.

Edmund Burke was right about the relationship between historical, cultural links to a potential for rational governance. Iraq simply does not have the basis for a transition to democractic, rational governance.

Demonstration elections, wherein probably half of the voters are as dimwitted as ours, is no substitute for the established rule of law, an independent judiciary, ordered liberty, and a military-police force capable of and willing to enforce the law in an objective, neutral manner.

Forget this Iraq mess, and instead build more B-2 Stealth bombers, increase the fleet, create more Special Forces units, and definitely increase the number of Middle Eastern language, cultural, religious, and history specialists for our military and intelligence communities respectively. That's the path to victory over radical Islamist-driven Jihad.

We're losing time and more importantly, grinding our active duty and reserve military into the ground, and for what end? So that Shiites and Sunnis can slaughter each other in the name of tribal, ethnic, and religious differences. What a bargain!
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 11:59 Comments || Top||

#9  It's just too bad the PM is a weak pushover.

One thing that really stands out is how incompetitant these police are.

I believe as good human beings, we can't let them kill each other off without trying to save the innocent ones. How? I don't know.
Posted by: Jesing Ebbease3087 || 11/24/2006 12:06 Comments || Top||

#10  How is exactly right, JE. You answered your dilemma when you chided the Iraqi Police for incompetence. It's worse than that, often they are the killers!
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:09 Comments || Top||

#11  Verlaine,

I take it you are firmly in the 'stop Sunni terrorism first' camp.

If this is correct, do you think the coalition should have allied itself with the Shiite militia to implement the 'stop Sunni terrorism first' policy?
Posted by: mhw || 11/24/2006 12:20 Comments || Top||

#12  Verlaine - Greetings, bro. Wow... so much to say...

As you know, I used to care, had hopes, the works. Now, I don't. Only the Kurds have truly deserved our efforts - and possibly that may be as much geography as not.

As you point out so eloquently, we never have given the Sunni Triangle the "thumping" it so desperately deserves. I used to harp on this regularly, but it was pointless to keep it up - it was never going to happen. Pure politics. This is my quickie recitation of the points along the curve...

From Turkey's back-stabbing, to calling off Fallujah I, to letting Sistani stop us in Najaf and Sadr City, to the soft-power model in the south, to the blowing up of the Golden Dome Mosque... It became a half-hearted game of grab-ass a long time ago. You've reported the screw-ups and they have led to this moment. A lot of our people and a huge number of civilians, far and away primarily Shia, have paid the price. And the logical eventual political turn came with the Shia Govt and the IM of Jabr - Shia Death Squads in police uniforms.

I think from the point where we decided we would support sovereignty over security, the game was over. Certainly, IMO, everything since Jaafari has been entirely predictable.
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 12:24 Comments || Top||

#13  "From Turkey's back-stabbing, to calling off Fallujah I, to letting Sistani stop us in Najaf and Sadr City, to the soft-power model in the south, to the blowing up of the Golden Dome Mosque... It became a half-hearted game of grab-ass a long time ago. You've reported the screw-ups and they have led to this moment. A lot of our people and a huge number of civilians, far and away primarily Shia, have paid the price. And the logical eventual political turn came with the Shia Govt and the IM of Jabr - Shia Death Squads in police uniforms."

Ditto. Or instead of a soft-hearted game of grab-ass, it became this:

A Dangerous Game of Whack-a-Mole

Note the date when published!

Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:33 Comments || Top||

#14  Wow, LOD... I'm only about halfway through it, but it's ringing true. Thx!
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 12:39 Comments || Top||

#15  .com:

No military expertise here, just a lot of reading, talking with veterans, having had family members who served (WW II), and so forth.

If little ole humble me could spot our problems in Iraq as far back as Spring 2004 (see my other commentaries on Iraq), what the hell does that say about the West Point, Harvard, and other Ivy League "best and brightest" ruining running the war effort?
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:54 Comments || Top||

#16  Another example:

Two days ago, five car bombs rigged to go off one after the other, helped kill 212 Shiites.

After all the overwhelming evidence of the need to implement no-driving, no-car zones and occasional car bans, why do Coalition and Iraqi security forces permit cars and other vehicles (motorbikes also have been used as bomb-delivery systems) anywhere near crowded markets, shops, apartments, and worst of all, police buildings?
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:57 Comments || Top||

#17  To answer mh's question: no, I'm not talking about allying with any irregular force, I'm talking about the need to have subdued the Sunni community (from which 95% of the violence that mattered emanated, either through active support/collusion/intimidation)ourselves first, as a pre-condition for further development. Instead, we've proceeded as though Iraq wasn't Iraq, but some other place on which we would perform our experiment of 1% power, 99% finesse, fancy-footwork, and leverage.

Lancasters touches on the implication of my main point: we focused on a few crude if impressive milestones of political development like elections. In fact, our operations were mostly limited to setting the conditions for those events. What was needed was much simpler, but much more arduous: establishing basic security by subduing the elements that prevented such security, who are almost entirely in the Sunni camp.

It would be a difficult mix of killing foreigners and local hard-cases, intimidating others, and giving the rest the impression that we were the winners, and that they'd better change their ways. It might have involved isolating whole communities, putting them on UN food rations, and ending their normal lives until they broke. It certainly would have involved systematic isolation of such communities to some extent (one car bomb comes from a town, that town is sealed off until they get the message - attempt to make them love us). The entire road network in certain areas should have been systematically controlled and limited since the get-go. Economic impact? Yes, it's hard to boost an economy while fighting a vicious nasty war - because doing so is not the objective and not needed.

It probably goes back to the quick sovereignty model: in general there's nothing wrong with the whole idea of a quick turnover of sovereignty and a focus in all things on getting the locals to take over. But IT MUST BE CONDITIONS-BASED. In Iraq it obviously hasn't been. The emphasis on political development and inclusion as weapons has been disastrous, given Iraq's specific history and human landscape. We turned over sovereignty before they were even close to ready to discharge their responsibilities - and before the Sunni community was sufficiently isolated, subjugated, or transformed to avoid major security problems.

We actually did, for limited purposes on a few occasions, take decisive action: Fallujah II, Tal Afar, Najaf and Karbala, a slew of very small and under-reported operations in the west, north, and east. But they were never part of a pattern, they were episodes.

A much tougher approach, putting reconstruction back in distant second place where it belongs, aimed at breaking the will of the Sunni community and impressing the rest that the future will be different, would be much better suited to Iraq's history and human reality. But this has never been tried, at least not in a comprehensive and sustained manner. Easier said than done, but not even trying is not much of a start.

AQ in Iraq swims in the Sunni sea. By pretending that the participation of some Sunnis in the new political structure was sufficient, we've essentially abandoned the priority mission of making sure that community is no longer the base for major violence.

The Baghdad security plan (various phases), launched in June 2006, merely confirms most of what I say: if it was the right move in June of this year, it probably would have been the right move long, long before that (and a much more serious version of it, at that). We have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into sometimes still half-a**ed versions of operations that were clearly urgent for months or years. Baghdad is just one example: it approaches gross incompetence to have taken until last spring to notice that Baghdad was a center of gravity in every sense - security, political, media - and that dramatic action was required.

Our military (particularly the Army, at least based on my view of parts of the elephant), with civilian approval, has been trying to make water run uphill in Iraq for over two years. We've tried to achieve victory in perhaps the most vicious, dysfunctional, hobbesian environment on Earth through quaint counter-insurgency experiments and negligible military operations. Not surprisingly, the primary enemy has endured and wrecked our little experiment.

None of this is as easy as it looks, and I don't blame anyone for almost any approach that proves to be ineffective, but the refusal to adapt and try different methods or to remain on top of the situation has been inexcusable.




Posted by: Verlaine || 11/24/2006 13:12 Comments || Top||

#18  One quick add: Lancasters, exactly! Far as I know, there has never been a serious and systematic change in the way business is done (limiting vehicle movement and access) in reaction to what is a friggin' war. Whole sections of the country should have been on some sort of lock-down since the early phases. I still recall a print story from the time of the April 2004 Fallujah incident - the immediate reaction had included cutting the town off, and some street vendor in Baghdad had remarked to a reporter that it was about time this was done, and pointed to the sudden decrease in car bombings in Baghdad as a direct result. That's sort of the representative image for me: a street vendor points out an obvious tactical change that our leadership had refused to implement for reasons that passeth understanding.

War without warfare, I have called it. I wonder if the Iraq experience will cure our military and civilian leadership of this odd pathology.
Posted by: Verlaine || 11/24/2006 13:20 Comments || Top||

#19  Verlaine - What do you think will be the effect on the Sunni faction when Saddam finally gets his neck stretched?

(disillusionment? renewed sense of vigor? whatever...)
Posted by: eLarson || 11/24/2006 13:34 Comments || Top||

#20  Have no idea, eLarson. Seems to me the various Sunni factions, both domestic and foreign, are playing for their own set of goals. Given that the parties are locked in serious mayhem, I wonder if Saddam's situation will have much impact on anyone.
Posted by: Verlaine || 11/24/2006 13:43 Comments || Top||

#21  How about, while their fighting each other, we just steal their oil and leave.
Posted by: Jesing Ebbease3087 || 11/24/2006 14:00 Comments || Top||

#22  Great thread here, folks. Lots of mind food. When I look back at the events since Saddam was deposed, I see our military being hobbled by bad leadership at the top, both civilian and the generals.

We played footsie with Sistani and his little Tater and the tots.
We did not go medevil with Fallujah in the beginning when the four security contractors were burned to death.
We did not make any significant covert ops against Iran and Syria, who actively enabled the influx of terrorists and materiel into Iraq.

In short, there were few consequences to the enemy for their actions, so why not keep up the same behaviors? They work. Sow discord, mayhem, anarchy, death. The playbook works.

The way to curtail terrorist activities is to cut off their resource base, and that leads to Iran and Syria. They have to feel the pain for their dirty little business.

We have the best military in the world: We have the hardware, the logistical chain, and the best, most highly educated and motivated people we ever had.

But we do not have the leadership that is willing to let the military do what they need to do. And this lack of leadership is at the top levels of the administration AND the military.

Now we are in a hell of a pickle. We have a PM in Iraq that plays footsie and more with Iran. Both Iran and Syria are in a stronger position now, due to our WEAKNESS, not because they are strong.

We also have a Dem majority in congress that wants negotiations with Syria and Iran! And we have a weak, uncentered ally in Israel. The MSM is cranking out defeatist propaganda at high throttle to demoralize the effort. We are also trying to run this war now by political committee.

The problems in Iraq are very serious. Very serious, indeed. But as big as they are, they are just a symptom a much larger problem, and that is the malaise and lack of leadership in this country. THAT is the big nut to crack. Deal with that, and the solutions to the other problems will fall into place. Wallow around like we have been doing, and Iraq AND other places will continue to turn to sh*t.

I have this horrible, but persistant feeling that we all will have to stare into the abyss before we can do what is needed to save ALL OF US from the abyss, including the muzzies themselves. The problem is that we are running out of time. The NORKS and the Iranians are continuing on with their nuclear programs, and nobody is stopping them. It's getting to be crunch time.



In short
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/24/2006 14:11 Comments || Top||

#23  The way I see it, Iraq has been divided, and we conquered, but we still haven't finished the old leadership. I think we're doing terrible on human intelligence.

Sun Tzu always always helps me think.

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
- Sun Tzu

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu

The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
- Sun Tzu

So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
- Sun Tzu

Whoever is first in the field and awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight; whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle will arrive exhausted.
- Sun Tzu

"The art of using troops is this:
......When ten to the enemy's one, surround him;
......When five times his strength, attack him;
......If double his strength, divide him;
......If equally matched you may engage him;
......If weaker numerically, be capable of withdrawing;
......And if in all respects unequal, be capable of eluding him,
..........for a small force is but booty for one more powerful."
- Sun Tzu, the Art Of War
Posted by: Jesing Ebbease3087 || 11/24/2006 14:55 Comments || Top||

#24  muck4doo solution. Make a seperate Kurd state. Give the rest of Iraq to Iran in exchange for giving up their nuke program, and give them a few nuke bombs as added incentive. (Secretly have them them programed though to hit Tehran, Moscow, Beijing, Paris, Mecca, and Hoboken New Jersey if ever launched.)
Posted by: Thoth || 11/24/2006 15:04 Comments || Top||

#25  Spot on Alaska Paul.

Question for Verlaine tho - you make a good case for the crack down on the Sunnis but what will really happen in the long run if the Sunni's are neutralized? Shiite dominance maybe? One big Iran possibly? Scary to ponder the possibilities. I'm in the "let them hash it out" camp. These kinds of things fester forever if one side doesn't kick the sh*t out of the other. Look at the Israel/Palestinian conflict. It will NEVER end until Israel either (1) takes the gloves off and decimates them or (2) gets decimated by them (via Iranian nuke, etc.)

One idea before a pullout:
1. Move our forces to secure bases in and around Iraq
2. Use our forces for border control (Mainly Syria and Iran borders)
3. Let them "hash it out"
4. Try the government establishment thing again after most of the aggressive element has eliminated each other. Probably the 3 region idea looks best. Screw the Turks if they don't like living next to an independent Kurdistan.

Just a thought from a non-Harvard, non-West Point type of guy.
Posted by: Intrinsicpilot || 11/24/2006 15:22 Comments || Top||

#26  Reminder that what we have today is a result of Turkish intransigence and betrayal: not letting our 4th ID roll into Sunni-ville from the North on Day 1 was the biggest error they made. And its the crux of the whole problem we now face; we didn't hit the triangle and left it to fester instead of flattening it. Thats where the insurgency bred and the Sunnis started pushing this until the Shia snapped on them.

I can hardly balme the Shia for going bozo on the Sunni. Were someone to do that to me and mine just because we were Catholic, I'd fight - and fight nasty (c.f. Catholic Ireland and the Protestant Scottish/English Plantations in the N - and several hundred years of vicious combat).

One thing to not overlook: we do have a true ally inthe area.

Having dealt personally with the Kurds, they are American in spirit and outlook. They basically just want to be left the hell alone and live freely, conduct business and raise their families. No they arent't Americans and are still Muslin in some ways, but the "get it". Ask people who have been there in the north.

They are the only bunch I ran into that deserve unquestioned support an allegiance - after all, they gave that to us and are continuing to do so.

I say build 2 PERMANENT airbases and 2 US Army brigade size bases, and in those house a stryker brigade active (and an attached tank battalion, active) and a brigade of prepositioned heavy armor equipment and a stryker brigade of preconfigured unit sets. Let the Kurds and EVERYON in the region kow we are dead serious about being there and protecting our friends.

Encourage the Kurds to push for liberty for their brothers in Iran and Syria. Train and arm them (and let the Kurds themselves resupply them). Losing Homs could topple the Alawite Syrian government (Leaving Baby Assad to a firing quad), and Homs is a major Hezbollah logistics area - right on the edge of they Kurdish area in NE Syria.

Tabriz becomes an immediate battle area for the Kurds. And its a dagger at the heart of the Theocrats in Iran: for the Iraqi border to the Caspian sea are the major Iranian links with Europe, and a lot of oil. The language and the culture there are NOT Persian/Farsi, they are Aberjainian/Kurdish. Plus in the 20th, Tabriz was known as the center of democratic rebellion in Iran.

Ideal place to start a revolution if you ask me. Take the western half for the Kurds, the city of Tabriz and the area to the east for the Azerbaijanis, and a chunk of the far north to the Armenians in majority there.

As for the Turks, screw em. If they set one foot in Kurdistan, we ought to deliver US air-strikes on their formations, and blow them back into Turkey.

Payback is a bitch - and Turkey deserves far more payback than they have been given. If they want to be an ally of the West, then they better act like it - that includes recognizing and apologizing for the Armenian genocide, allowing plebiscite and more independence for Kurds, including rolling back laws that make it illegal to teach Kurdish language and culture, and releasing the political prisoners they hold now.

Dems are good at screwing our allies; let's let them loose on thr Turks -- I can hardly image a set of peopel that deserved each other any more than those.

Posted by: OldSpook || 11/24/2006 16:31 Comments || Top||

#27  Correction: Not Homs, but Al Hasakah is in the Kurdish area of Syria. Homs is a C&C are for Helbollzh, Al Hasakah is an overland logistics choke point from Iran.

Hell if th Kurds coudl reach Homs they'd have cut Syria in half. Thats how you can tell if Israel is serious about knocking Syria out versus jsut smacking it. Hit Damascus, you;'re rattlign the cage. Hit Homs and you are dismembering Syria.
Posted by: OldSpook || 11/24/2006 16:41 Comments || Top||

#28  I like the strategy outline, OS, but a major problem would develop: if the Kurds were to strike out at Syria and/or Iran to re-unite their brethen Kurds in these countries, the Turks will become exceedingly nervous. After all, the PKK would become increasingly bold, and it would be difficult for the Turks to believe that while the Kurds are going to reunite Syrian and Iranian Kurdish lands to the mother Kurdistan, they have no designs at all on the largest chunk of Kurdish land outside of Iraq.

So while the Turks might be mollified/bought off to accept a Kurdish state strictly confined to present-day Kurdish Iraq, no way in hell they'll sit still for Kurdish expansion in any direction. I don't think the Turks would accept the Kurds getting Mosul, so I can't see them allowing the Kurds to get Al Hasakah.

If you have a solution for the Turkish issue that doesn't involve all-out war (which is what I think the Turks would resort to if the Kurds expanded), I'd love to hear it.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/24/2006 16:58 Comments || Top||

#29  Putting the Turks in a hard spot is a feature not a bug. They deserve it for what they did in the run-up to Iraq.

The Kurds need a port. Iskenderon looks good.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 11/24/2006 17:13 Comments || Top||

#30  Latakia, I think is historically Kurdish.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/24/2006 17:19 Comments || Top||

#31  That'd work too. I didn't realize they were that far south.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 11/24/2006 17:23 Comments || Top||

#32  Steve, if we guarantee the freedom of the Kurds in their own state, the Turks would simply have no choice but to either alter the conditions on the ground (i.e. start acting like a western democracy and allow the Kurds to run their own lives without the fascistic interference of their central state) or else face rebellion in their east. Its something that time will have happen, sooner or later.

The Turks gave us no choice, fair enough to not give them one other than a hard one.

Time for the Turks to accept the last spin-off of the ottoman empire: eastern Turkey belongs to the Kurds, Azerbaijani's and Armenians. Its not Turkey anymore.
Posted by: OldSpook || 11/24/2006 17:34 Comments || Top||

#33  Latakia is very decidedly mixed.
Posted by: OldSpook || 11/24/2006 17:35 Comments || Top||

#34  Brings up somethign interesting: Offer the Turks the job of "Stabilizing" northern Syria excluding the Kurdish areas, but to include Latakia.
Posted by: OldSpook || 11/24/2006 17:36 Comments || Top||

#35  OS, I do not have a problem with your solution, but it comes back to leadership to make it happen, or anything short of a disaster happen. We cannot get there by the moron dems et al coming up with moron solutions to Iraq by committee. The Republicans and the President need to grow a spine. They are acting like tire tubes with leaks. Pump em up and they deflate in time. We either need lots of patches or some new tubes. Which way is the question, and how do you do it?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/24/2006 17:49 Comments || Top||

#36  AP, I agree moreorless with OS and in answer to your question. Let the Iraqis/Kurds do it themselves. The mistake is to try and stop them (by trying to control the process and outcome). All the US should do is guarantee Iraq's borders. Sure the Sunnis will take a hammering, but that's been inevitable for a while
Posted by: phil_b || 11/24/2006 19:00 Comments || Top||

#37  All of the above commentaries (mine humbly excluded) are among the best threads I've ever read on the Rantburg.

Excellent job Verlaine, .com, OldSpook, Alaska Paul, and everyone else.

If the GOP had a fraction of the insights and intelligence displayed here, Nancy Pelosi would just be another leftist hag from San Fran rather than *gasp* incoming Speaker of the House.

But for mishandling Iraq, the GOP would have secured Congress. Instead it got a well-deserved comeuppance.

Grand Old Party Gets A Grand Old Comeuppance
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 21:49 Comments || Top||

#38  good comments and ideas RBees...
Posted by: RD || 11/24/2006 22:03 Comments || Top||

#39  Lancasters (great name, by the way), you are very generous in your praise. I second it when it comes to the others - in my case, there's just great frustration at seeing the last two years go by without any change in our determination to win this through magic tricks instead of blood and toil. There are places in Iraq where any number of approaches make sense - that's not the point. The point is, the key problem that was never addressed is Sunni violence and chauvinism.

A miscalculation was made to attempt to co-opt that community before subduing it. Much was made of splits that were opened up by the political process - irrelevant, as it turns out, since AQ and home-grown Sunni extremists have had no problem operating out of a "split" community. If the Sunnis "engaged" so skillfully by the embassy and its able political team had organized to fight the foreigners, Ba'athists, and domestic extremists, we'd be in a different place today. But these Sunnis for whatever reason have been unable to deliver their community to the new Iraq project. Long past time to recognize that, protect some reliable leaders who are sincerely on the right side, and make the community's life unbearable until submission occurs.

I would not be concerned by Shi'a dominance, which in any situation short of brutal tyranny will be the situation. Iran naturally has inroads via the Shi'a, but I think people great over-estimate that, and under-estimate TRUE Iraqi nationalism (not the Sunni desire to dominate, steal the country blind, and/or evade justice for all the blood on their hands - this is called "nationalism" by both the media and many in MNF-I, astoundingly). The Najaf hawza view Iranian mullahs as rivals, and lower on the totem pole, and besides that (I believe) there is little support for Iran's historically anomalous mixture of religion and state (vilayet e faqih). On top of this, the Arab/Persian divide is robust, and I think sufficient to ensure that Iran's ambitions would be checked.

I think the Kurds want to keep Iraq intact, for now, and it's their best option. Too much power in Turkey, and chaos or uncertainty in Syria and Iran, for an Iraqi dissolution to be the percentage move any time soon. A functional Iraq is the Kurds' best bet. Their pro-US sentiment and availability to cooperate in any of our nefarious schemes will endure, no rush ....
Posted by: Verlaine || 11/24/2006 22:29 Comments || Top||

#40  Thanks, gents. I learned a lot tonight.
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/24/2006 23:17 Comments || Top||


Some Fighters in Iraq Adopt New Tactics to Battle U.S.
So they're "fighters" now. Not even militants or insurgents. NYT.
FORWARD OPERATING BASE CALDWELL, Iraq — Sunni Arab militant groups suspected of having ties to Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia have established training camps east of Baghdad that are turning out well-disciplined units willing to fight American forces in set-piece battles, American military commanders said Thursday.

American soldiers fought such units in a pitched battle last week in Turki, a village 25 miles south of this Iraqi Army base in volatile Diyala Province, bordering Iran. At least 72 insurgents and two American officers were killed in more than 40 hours of fighting. American commanders said they called in 12 hours of airstrikes while soldiers shot their way through a reed-strewn network of canals in extremely close combat.

Officers said that in that battle, unlike the vast majority of engagements in Diyala, insurgents stood and fought, even deploying a platoon-size unit that showed remarkable discipline. One captain said the unit was in “perfect military formation.”

Insurgents throughout Iraq usually avoid direct confrontation with American troops, preferring to use hit-and-run tactics and melting away at the sight of American armored vehicles.

Lt. Col. Andrew Poppas, commander of the Fifth Squadron, 73rd Cavalry, a unit of the 82nd Airborne Division, said in an interview that the fighters at Turki “were disciplined and well trained, with well-aimed shots.”

“We hadn’t seen anything like this in years,” he said.

The insurgents had built a labyrinthine network of trenches in the farmland, with sleeping areas and weapons caches. Two antiaircraft guns had been hidden away.

Insurgents were apparently able to establish a training camp after American forces moved out of the area in the fall of 2005, Colonel Poppas said. Sunni Arab militants there belong to the fundamentalist Wahhabi strain of Islam and are believed to be led, at least in part, by a man known as Abu Abdul Rahman, an Iraqi-Canadian who moved from Canada to Iraq in 1995 after marrying a woman from Turki, he said.

Abu Abdul Rahman was mentioned on some jihadist Web sites as a possible contender for the leadership of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia after the group’s founder, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was killed in an American airstrike in Diyala Province in June, said Capt. Mike Few, commander of A Troop, Fifth Squadron.

Senior commanders training Iraqi Army units here say other rural areas of eastern and central Diyala where American forces have had little oversight have been transformed into camps similar to the one at Turki. The “graduates,” many of whom belong to an umbrella group called the Sunni Council, then spread to urban areas like Baquba, the provincial capital, said Maj. Tim Sheridan, an intelligence officer. Sectarian violence is rampant in Diyala, where Sunni and Shiite militants are vying for control.

The battle at Turki began after Colonel Poppas and other soldiers flew over the area on a reconnaissance mission on Nov. 12. From the helicopters, they spotted a white car covered by shrubbery and a hole in the ground that appeared to be a hiding place. The colonel dropped off an eight-man team and later sent other soldiers to sweep the area.

Gunfire erupted on Nov. 15 when one unit ran into an ambush. The fighting eventually became so intense that the Americans called in airstrikes. An American captain and a lieutenant, both West Point graduates, were killed by insurgents in separate firefights.
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 02:54 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sunni Arab militant groups suspected of having ties to Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia have established training camps east of Baghdad that are turning out well-disciplined units willing to fight American forces in set-piece battles, American military commanders said Thursday.

Why the fuc& did we invent the MOAB if we never intended to use it?

Officers said that in that battle, unlike the vast majority of engagements in Diyala, insurgents stood and fought, even deploying a platoon-size unit that showed remarkable discipline. One captain said the unit was in “perfect military formation.”

Gee. I wonder where they learned to do that.

The colonel dropped off an eight-man team and later sent other soldiers to sweep the area.

I am not qualified even as an armchair private. But it seems to me if you have suspicios stuff out on a farm in the middle of BFE, it might be a good idea to put it on a watch list for the surveillance drones before you send in eight guys with peashooters. Wait 'til they're holding a graduation ceremony and then do a little gate-crashing with a GPS-guided cluster bomb.
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 4:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Gorb, the US is sensitive to overkill; it seems to me also that the MOAB would be perfect for such a scenario; but the old adage of,'if you can kill a man with one bullet, why waste it' applies here. This is a sign the Pentagon is 'running' the war and not the Generals on the ground!
Posted by: smn || 11/24/2006 5:00 Comments || Top||

#3  willing to fight American forces in set-piece battles

Isn't this exactly what American forces do best? The final score of 72-2 provides some hint.
Posted by: SteveS || 11/24/2006 7:21 Comments || Top||

#4  I recall passages from Alan Moorehead’s book on Gallipoli.

The Turks launched an attack from their trenches against the Diggers. While the Diggers were effectively dropping the Turks as the rose, it soon dawned on them, that they could allow the Turkish officers to get their men up out of their trenches and literally whip them into a formation. The Diggers thought it was better to allow the officers to act as beaters to get their target nicely formed before literally cutting the Turks down. Efficiency.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 11/24/2006 8:23 Comments || Top||

#5 
willing to fight American forces in set-piece battles


LMore or less what the NVA did at Khe Sangh with catastrophic results in front of American firepower.

Now if only more Jihadis went in set piece battles so they are wiped out. In fact Americans should be softer on them in order to encourage them to it. If Jihadis are completly wiped out, then after a few set piece battles they will shift agsin to suicide bombing.
Posted by: JFM || 11/24/2006 10:00 Comments || Top||

#6  Except that an embed -- can't remember which it was -- recently reported that the jihadis are having a hard time fielding more than a handful of attackers at a time, and have never been able to effectively act as a unit.

The insurgents had built a labyrinthine network of trenches in the farmland, with sleeping areas and weapons caches. Two antiaircraft guns had been hidden away.

Wow! Two antiaircraft guns! And trenches! That'll last about five minutes against modern forces.

Why are so many "journalists" impressed with even the most primitive military achievements?
Posted by: Rob Crawford || 11/24/2006 11:16 Comments || Top||

#7  SteveS hit the nail on the head. Regardless of how well trained...terrorists that act try to go toe to toe will lose...100% of the time. We are that good.

Look at the taliban in afghanistan. Virtually every time they attempt any platoon size contact or greater results in massive casualties...and that's just the bodies we find.

We have perfected the art of combined arms warfare.
Posted by: anymouse || 11/24/2006 11:21 Comments || Top||

#8  are turning out well-disciplined units willing to fight American forces in set-piece battles

Good.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:41 Comments || Top||

#9 
are turning out well-disciplined units willing to fight American forces in set-piece battles


Actually the Germans had turned out well disciplined units to fight the Americans in set piece battles, except that they much were better than the Jihadis and better than the Americans facing them. But it was to no avail in front of American firepower. There is the story of a captured German who was asked to compare the foes he had fought, thus he told the Russins were so and so, the British so and so. And the Americans? "It is difficult to say. In fact I didn't see them: there was too much smoke, constant artillery strikes, planes overflying me every second. I was too busy taking cover to look at them, and before I realized it I was a prisoner".

This could be aprocryphal but the German troops told of the "Material Anschlage": when they counterattacked on the Eastern Front they were ever able to make some progress even if the Russians eventually ended recovering the lost ground but in Normandy they were stopped cold, even their elite Panzer SS were powerless.

Posted by: JFM || 11/24/2006 16:08 Comments || Top||

#10  JFM...it's called combined arms. Nobody in the history of warfare has come even close.
Posted by: anymouse || 11/24/2006 16:32 Comments || Top||

#11  One of those boring things the idiots in the Pentagon train the troops to be able to pull off.

You know, just another sign of their incompetance.
Posted by: spealing forschitz0044 || 11/24/2006 19:35 Comments || Top||

#12  I think our Pentagon has capable people - perhaps too many outside academic consultants, but hey...that's the business trend. Was Spelunking For Shitz really a Fred-name, or self identified? WTF?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/24/2006 21:05 Comments || Top||

#13  It's a double 0 number Frank. I'd be careful.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 11/24/2006 21:21 Comments || Top||

#14  Methinks 0044 was being sarcastic.
Posted by: Pappy || 11/24/2006 21:51 Comments || Top||

#15  I second the sentiment of "good" re the suggestion that the enemy will form up and fight our military units. So many sources of error or missing info that it's hard to say for sure, but the "discovery" of a training area in the manner described does confirm the sort of half-assed approach we've been taking to this fight.

You heard it here first: there's no NON-military solution to any war, including insurgencies, including Iraq. The frequency with which the converse of that statement comes out of uniformed mouths (in the field, not just the Pentagon) is almost the scariest thing at the moment. Iraqis certainly don't have any reason to worship the abstractions of politics and nation-building, while their entire life experience confirms that their situation is driven by power, and will - and only fools will bet or act otherwise.
Posted by: Verlaine || 11/24/2006 22:40 Comments || Top||


Orcs Bombs kill 160 in Baghdad, curfew imposed
A series of car bombs killed 160 people in a Shi'ite stronghold in Baghdad on Thursday in the bloodiest single attack since the U.S. invasion of 2003. As political leaders scrambled in public to hold Iraqis back from all-out sectarian civil war, they imposed an indefinite curfew on the capital.
Police said the six coordinated blasts in the Sadr City slum wounded 257 people, many maimed for life.
Police said the six coordinated blasts in the Sadr City slum wounded 257 people, many maimed for life. The blasts came at the same time as gunmen surrounded and fired on the Shi'ite-run Health Ministry in one of the boldest daylight assaults by militants in Baghdad. Mortars later crashed down on a nearby Sunni enclave in an apparent reprisal attack.

Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, who will meet U.S. President George W. Bush for what is shaping up to be a crisis summit in Jordan next week, vowed to defeat the "dark hand of conspiracy" and urged Iraqis to "refrain from acts of passion".

But similar appeals after a previous provocative bombing, at a major Shi'ite shrine at Samarra in February, failed to stop a wave of bloodshed that has gathered strength ever since, killing a record 3,700 civilians in October alone as a cycle of fear and revenge has taken hold in Baghdad and neighbouring regions. "We call on people to act responsibly and to stand together to calm the situation," Sunni Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi and Shi'ite party leader Abdul Aziz al-Hakim said in a joint televised statement, accompanied by Iraq's Kurdish president.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A flurry of diplomacy involving Syria and Shi'ite Iran, which Washington says back militants in Iraq, carries high hopes but many question whether any leaders can control the fear and hatred that has taken root in Iraq's heavily armed population.

This is going to be expensive. To the victor go the modern day version of the spoils, I suppose.
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 3:00 Comments || Top||

#2  AP sez it's up to 202, now.
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 3:29 Comments || Top||

#3  If this devolves into civil war, what will happen?

1) break it to 3 states: sunni-stan, shitite-stan and kurd-istan

2) civil war resulting in Iran-controlled shitites having most of the oil, sunnis marginalised, kurds rooted

3) give up on democracy ideal and install a brutal repressive tyrant that is friendly to the west and US interests.

I prefer 1 then 3.

Democracy was too high an ideal here to implement without the necessary force. To build a culture respectful of the rule of law, tolerant and not corrupt or nepotistic required the kind of defeat and occupation Japan and Germany had after WWII. The population NEED to feel utterly defeated to give up their ways and change.
Then they needed martial law, a US soldier on every corner and an occupation - a real occupation - with the US taking control of every aspect of Iraqi life with NO representation. Iraqis do what they're told. Until such time as democratic infrastructure and culture could be built up.

This hasn't happened - of course it couldn't as popular opinion shapes foreign policy in a democracy like America - so now I just want to know if this is going to affect the price of oil and gold?

Oil is cheap now (always goes down when OPEC threatens to 'cut' production) but if civil war in Iraq, will it go up?

Will we be forced to invade Iran?

What do OldSpook and Zenster think of the strategic outcomes likely from Iraq and the Middle East? I respect you guys you are very spot on.
Posted by: anon1 || 11/24/2006 7:53 Comments || Top||

#4  I say we split our forces, some into Kurdistan where we work with the Kurds to expand their forces and solidify our air bases. The other into the shia oil fields where we defend same and continue the flow of oil, while the sunnis and the shias kill each other with gusto. We should keep control of the skies and track movements of groups on the ground. Eventually, we will catch large numbers crossing into Iraq so we can squash them without warning. After all, why allow the shia to control oil, we won the war, it's ours.
Posted by: wxjames || 11/24/2006 14:08 Comments || Top||


Al-Qaeda ups anti-Iranian rhetoric
Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah has been branded a "worshipper of idols, an agent of the anti-Christ," and "charlatan" by Iraqi al-Qaeda leader Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Muhajir in a statement made earlier this month, the full text of which has now become available. The message, which also contained threats to blow up the White House, forms another escalation in al-Qaeda's increasingly hostile anti-Iranian rhetoric, that has also targeted Hizbullah .

Discussing the actions of US President Bush, Muhajir said in the statement, released by al-Qaeda's al-Furqan Foundation, translated into English by the Al-Boraq Workshop, and reproduced on the Jihad Unspun website :
"He (Bush) turned to the Sham (Syria and Lebanon ) and terrorized its tyrant (Basher Assad), who is a Rafidi (Shiite) and a Nusayri (one of Shiite's factions). The blockade continued until he (Assad) had to open his country to hundreds and thousands of Persians to acquire citizenship in it, (so the they can) support the charlatan agent of the anti-Christ, Nasr Allat (a common nickname for Hizbullah's Nasrallah, and meaning a supporter and worshipper of Idols) who is called Nasrallah..."
"Hence, the Old Persian Empire has become complete, extending from the countries behind the river, Iran and Iraq… to the Sham (Syria and Lebanon)," Muhajir said.

The al-Qaeda leader said the United States had become an agent for Iran. "I wonder whether the wise of Romans (Americans) realize that they have become slaves and mercenaries for Persia, and that they are fighting Persia's battles for free," he said.

On November 17, Sunni al-Qaeda followers in Lebanon released a statement on the internet calling on Lebanese Sunnis to prepare for an imminent confrontation. According to the SITE Institute , a website which monitors Islamist web activity, the statement also said:"Let the Rafidi (Shiites) know that we are ready to fight them with Allah's help and let it be a war. We are more eager for it than they."

Meanwhile, al-Qaeda in Iraq has declared the establishment of a Caliphate (Islamic State), in anticipation of the withdrawal of US troops from the region. "In a long waited step, for which sacrifices were granted and martyrs bloods were shed to achieve its path; the Mujahideen Shura Council in Iraq has announced the establishment of the 'Islamic State of Iraq,' the state of Islam that will rule the law of Allah on people and lands, that will protect the core (center) of Islam and acts as a solid shield for the Sunni people on the land of Iraq," al-Qaeda said in a statement, published on the newly created Caliphate Voice Channel website .

The al-Qaeda site also accused Shiites of working with the United States to kill former Iraqi al-Qaeda leader Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi. "O monotheist Muslims… O Mujahideen across the world; today we announce the end of a stage of Jihad and the start of a new one, in which we lay the first cornerstone of the Islamic Caliphate project and revive the glory of religion," Muhajir declared.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "anti-Christ"... "wise of Romans"...

I'd like to know who is his statement writer. Of course the "wise of Romans" is meant ironically, but the usage is rather odd, with "anti-Christ" to boot.

Unless it is the translation that got these few button slapped on.

Of course, the rule of thumb applies: "watch hands, not lips". As far as I can judge, there has been always a working relationship between mullahs and AQ, perhaps not underwritten by warm friendship but rather they became strange bedfellows out of necessity, as they see it.

The inclusion of the two mentioned buttons seem to indicate that the statement is intended for western MSM consumption. To what end, that is the question.
Posted by: twobyfour || 11/24/2006 0:25 Comments || Top||

#2  "I wonder whether the wise of Romans (Americans) realize that they have become slaves and mercenaries for Persia, and that they are fighting Persia's battles for free," he said

If only the West would show them what Roman conflict resolution looked like.
Posted by: Excalibur || 11/24/2006 9:14 Comments || Top||

#3  I'd like to know who is his statement writer. Of course the "wise of Romans" is meant ironically, but the usage is rather odd, with "anti-Christ" to boot.

Keep in mind that Mohammed supposedly declared war on the "Romans" -- who we'd call the Byzantines -- after they refused to submit to Allah. The modern jihadis see a parallel in the American refusal, so use references to "Rome".

Posted by: Rob Crawford || 11/24/2006 11:08 Comments || Top||

#4  Less talk, more action!
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:50 Comments || Top||

#5  Do you ever get the feeling the Iraq war happened to show the world how much the Sunni's and Shia hate each other????
Posted by: Ebbolump Glomotle9608 || 11/24/2006 12:31 Comments || Top||

#6  When Al Q gets a few suicide bombers into semi secure areas in Tehran or Hezb areas of Beirut, we can take them seriously.

But for now this is just puff.
Posted by: mhw || 11/24/2006 13:43 Comments || Top||

#7  It's just as well that I'm not the president and commander in chief of PETA.

Advocating for the somewhat indiscriminate killing of animals might not reflect well upon my constituiency nor my administration.

And yet it seems like such a good idea. Indeed it seems necessary, since all else has been tried and failed. I feel conflicted.

I'm willing to compromise. Have we tried targeted assassination? Certainly Iranian, Syrian, Saudi, and Russian branches of PETA have shown success in this regard.

Advice, anyone?

Posted by: Mark Z || 11/24/2006 21:07 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Two Kassam rockets land in central Sderot
Two Kassam rockets landed in central Sderot on Thursday night. As a result, several people went into shock and were treated on the scene. The attack also damaged several buildings.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  We need the West to hear more about the daily rockets from Hamas.

All the bleeding hearts ie left/liberals etc always make out Israeli aggression is the fault in the middle east and the Paleos are innocent/victims!!!!!
Posted by: Ebbolump Glomotle9608 || 11/24/2006 8:15 Comments || Top||

#2  All the bleeding etc... cheer when Paleos succeed like this.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:46 Comments || Top||


Palestinians offer Israel limited truce
An Islamic Jihad member said late Thursday that Palestinian militant groups offered to stop firing rockets into Israel in exchange for a cessation of all attacks on the Gaza Strip and the occupied West Bank. Islamic Jihad leader Khader Habib said the main Palestinian factions including the governing Hamas group, the rival Fatah of President Mahmoud Abbas and other smaller groups reached the understanding while meeting Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. “For the good of the national Palestinian interest ... There is a position supporting calm (a ceasefire) by stopping rocket fire in return for an end to the aggression against our people in Gaza and the West Bank,” Habib told Reuters.

Habib said a deal would only take effect after Israel agrees and actually ends military actions. The offer was limited only to rocket firing and did not include other forms of attacks by militants such as cross-border attacks and suicide bombings. It was the first time that all Palestinian factions and militant groups had agreed on a common proposal. He added that Haniyeh would take the proposal to Abbas in their meeting later on Thursday in the hope that the president would then put it to Israel. “If the Israelis agree then the deal will be ratified by all parties. The implementation of the agreement will be pending on whether we will see an end to the aggression on the ground,” Habib said.
"Such a deal!"
On Wednesday, the Israeli government decided to press on with a five-month-old offensive which it launched after militants abducted a soldier in a cross-border raid from the Gaza Strip last June. It stopped short of a massive assault to curb an upsurge in Palestinian militant rocket strikes on the Jewish state.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sounds like they're running low on rockets for the time being.
Posted by: Glenmore || 11/24/2006 2:17 Comments || Top||

#2  Hudna. All taqqiya, all the time.
Posted by: Zenster || 11/24/2006 2:32 Comments || Top||

#3  The reverbations of the US mid-terms.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Will you stop hitting me until the swelling goes down? I will then stop too.
Paleo
Posted by: Xenophon || 11/24/2006 15:00 Comments || Top||

#5  The Pals would regard a ceasefire offer from the Israelis as a sign of weakness and redouble their efforts. Perhaps the Israelis should find a lesson in that.
Posted by: Baba Tutu || 11/24/2006 15:40 Comments || Top||


Grandmother in first Hamas suicide attack in two years
Picture of some "happy" family members at link.
A Palestinian grandmother blew herself up in the Gaza Strip, lightly wounding three Israeli soldiers, in the first suicide attack claimed by Hamas in almost two years. The mother of nine and grandmother of 41 became the oldest Palestinian suicide bomber at the age of 57, approaching troops operating to curb daily rocket attacks, the army said. "Troops saw a woman approaching them in a suspicious manner and identified her carrying an explosive device," a spokeswoman said of the incident in the northern town of Jabaliya. "They then threw a stun grenade in her direction but she managed to blow herself up," the spokeswoman said, adding that three soldiers were lightly hurt.
J Post sez the nasty old bitch was 68...
Within minutes the armed wing of the Hamas claimed the bombing. This was the Islamist group's first suicide attack since January 2005, when a bomber wounded seven Israeli soldiers in Gaza. "The Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades claims the martyr operation carried out by Fatima Omar Mahmud al-Najar, aged 57, in the middle of a group of Zionist soldiers," an online statement said.

The bloody operation came two weeks after the radical faction threatened to resume suicide bombings in response to a botched Israeli shelling in the Gaza town of Beit Hanun that left 19 Palestinians, mostly women and children, dead. Another seven Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire in the northern part of the volatile territory Thursday, as Gaza militants launched seven rockets into the Jewish state, one of which struck a house in a southern kibbutz.

Relatives said Najar had seven sons and two daughters, plus some 41 grandchildren, and that they were proud of her "martyrdom", which daughter Azhar said was a direct response to the Beit Hanun shelling. "She did this operation in response to the Beit Hanun massacre. She was very moved by what happened," said Azhar, speaking from home in Jabaliya where relatives came to congratulate Najar's nearest and dearest. Azhar also said her mother had taken part in a daring rescue operation, staged by Palestinian mothers and wives, who acted as human shields to free more than a dozen gunmen holed up in a Beit Hanun mosque on November 3.
Are you thinking what I am thinking?
Zuheir, Najar's 20-year-old son, told AFP from the family home: "We are really happy. It's a big operation. She told us last night that she would do a suicide operation. She prepared her clothes for that operation and we are proud.
Are you thinking what I am thinking?
"'I don't want anything, only to die a martyr.' That's what she said."
Oh, and she also asked "Does this suicide vest make me look fat?"
Faced with Hamas rocket attacks, Israeli ministers only Wednesday authorized more operations against the Islamists, following a sweeping campaign of arrests and bombings begun in late June after the group abducted a soldier. Hamas heads the Western-boycotted Palestinian government, whose armed wing has claimed two recent deadly rocket attacks on Israel, and which has withstood massive pressure to recognize Israel and formally renounce violence. Najar was the second Palestinian woman to blow herself up in the northern Gaza this month, following a November 6 attack claimed by Islamic Jihad.

The seven Palestinians, including at least four militants, were killed and seven Israeli soldiers wounded Thursday, as the military pressed a ground and air assault to curb the constant menace of rocket fire. Three of the militants were from the radical Popular Resistance Committees, one of three groups to claim the June 25 capture of the Israeli soldier, and died in an air strike against their car in Beit Hanun.

The Israeli military confirmed the strike against militants wanted in connection with rocket attacks and anti-tank fire. One Palestinian was killed as Israeli artillery fired in response to the suicide attack, and three others, including a militant from the radical Islamic Jihad movement, were killed by ground fire.

Rocket attacks have become a near daily event since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005 after a 38-year occupation, frequently inaccurate but managing to kill two civilians in the past eight days. Israel has openly admitted being unable to completely stop the rocket fire, and more than 300 Palestinians and three Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza since the military launched a massive counter-offensive in late June.
If they only used artillery, they could probably lower it to 1:1000 or better.
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So is this what the Brave Jihadi Warriors have come to? Sending out old ladies who aren't very good at this shit to do their dirty work?
Tell them to send out the rest of her retard family. Might help clean up their gene pool...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/24/2006 0:12 Comments || Top||

#2  Here's hoping her eternal reward in the afterlife is a starring role in the Islamic version of the Tijuana Donkey Show. (Hey, Allah's not going to be pleased. She didn't take anyone with her. He can't reward that kind of failure.)
Posted by: Swamp Blondie || 11/24/2006 1:08 Comments || Top||

#3  The PERP (Palestinian Early Retirement Plan) is experiencing an explosion of new participants.
Posted by: Zenster || 11/24/2006 2:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Islamic version of the Tijuana Donkey Show

Would that involve a goat or a more likely a camel? :-)

Perhaps she could be one of those 72 raisins that keeps getting recycled to feed all the martyrs? Sloppy seconds, anyone? Eww. I think I grossed myself out with that one.
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 2:11 Comments || Top||

#5  rest in pieces ya crinkly wrinkly old tard
Posted by: Oztralian || 11/24/2006 2:39 Comments || Top||

#6  Next they send Grandpops

Mate, she is responsible for the pumping out of 41 baby jihadi grandkids and she was only (maybe) 57. Just think about that fertility for a second. Now how many kids do the Joooos have?

OK now look 100 years into the future....

Scary, isn't it.

Now i'm thinking there should be some kind of chemical fertility control program like perhaps putting birth control in the water in the Palestinian "refugee" camps. That could dry up the problem in about 20 years.
Posted by: anon1 || 11/24/2006 7:59 Comments || Top||

#7  Now that place has that gross incontinent old lady smell all over it. Yuck.
Posted by: JDB || 11/24/2006 9:55 Comments || Top||

#8  Anon1, just one more parrallel of a war fought ca 30 years ago, as well as fighting terrorists in civilain clothing/areas. Apologies to the rest of you if it's getting boring.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4106/is_200412/ai_n10298397

Probably because of this, African nationalists in Rhodesia perhaps more than anywhere else in Africa knew how discourses of reproduction could be used to their own advantage: they could threaten whites with more and more babies. Africans also understood how menacing Europeans' obsession with their numbers actually was. During the liberation war, amidst widespread accusations of biological and chemical warfare, Rhodesian family-planning workers, white and black, were accused of trying to sterilize women and make men impotent. These accusations went beyond the discursive, and in 1980 the otherwise modernizing regime of ZANU-PF banned injectable contraceptives.

(Also, I seem to recall outcry when the pill for London's pigeon population was muted, so we are up against a brick wall on this one).

Simple option is that if the paleos want water, treat it with LSD, as, I think .com proposed recently. Purple Splodeydope Haze. They couldn't get off their collective stinking arses then, and it would be luv'n'peace, lol! (No ecstacy, though).
Posted by: rhodesiafever || 11/24/2006 10:26 Comments || Top||

#9  I heard on Fox that she had 40 grandchildren. My guess the extended family ended up with a big payoff from Hamas financiers.

About the time you think islam can't sink any lower into depravity...surprise! My forecast is that there will be child homicide bombers within a year. Who knows...maybe the islamo-cockroaches will start substituting bomb belts for diapers on babies.

allan snackbar!
Posted by: anymouse || 11/24/2006 11:29 Comments || Top||

#10  As long as Hamas and other Palestinian groups keep being proud of SHIT like this, no one will ever take them seriously.

No one.
Posted by: BigEd || 11/24/2006 12:05 Comments || Top||

#11  Countdown to the day Hamas uses a five-year-old boomer 10...9...8...7...
Posted by: Lancasters Over Dresden || 11/24/2006 12:07 Comments || Top||

#12  Islam finally finds use for women post child bearing age.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 12:21 Comments || Top||

#13  BigEd, you got it, they will be proud of this forever, till none of them are left, including their menopausal women, all gone, and their history is a myth.

The war/s will always encompass women, but these neanderthals are forcing a point here.

You feed 'em, house 'em, die.

They dont send pregnant women to splodey-dope, why's that?

You splodeydope when preganant, that's a two fer (or more, lol!), for us.
Posted by: Whinemble Phinegum9722 || 11/24/2006 12:37 Comments || Top||

#14  The baby boomer in a carriage left in a mall or restaurant or just parked on a sidewalk can't be far behind.
Posted by: Shuns Uleating3851 || 11/24/2006 13:08 Comments || Top||

#15  I hope the three IDF soldiers recover soon.

I also hope Grandma Fatima suffered mightily.
Posted by: Mark Z || 11/24/2006 15:06 Comments || Top||

#16  How, after this, are Palestinians allowed to continue the pretense that there is any kind of a difference between soldiers and civilians among them?
Posted by: Elmereter Hupash6222 || 11/24/2006 16:14 Comments || Top||

#17  The Paleos are getting near the bottom. If they field woman suicide bombers (SBs), then all Paleo women are suspect. If they field granny SBs, then the elderly go on the sh*tlist. Similarly, if they field child SBs, children go on the list.

In short, the Paleos' use of non-normal combatants to take advantage of the Israeli's humanity will backfire because the IDF will see this tactic for what it is and will readjust by declaring ALL paleos combatants.

In effect, Granny SB tactics are slowly, steadily, turning Gaza and the West Bank into free fire zones. It is really up to the Isrealis if they want to put up with this crap or not.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/24/2006 17:43 Comments || Top||


Sri Lanka
Lankan tanks, jets battle rebels for third day
Sri Lanka’s military battled Tamil Tiger rebels with tanks and fighter jets along a shared “border” in the island’s east on Thursday, with each side blaming the other for the outbreak of fighting. The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) said the army entered no-man’s land in the eastern district of Batticaloa with tanks and armoured vehicles, while the military said the Tigers were first to fire heavy artillery. The army said seven soldiers were injured, but there were no details of any rebel casualties.

In a separate incident in the eastern district of Ampara further south, three policemen were killed in a firefight with Tigers who had ambushed them in paddy fields in government territory, officials said. “There is an intense confrontation going on,” Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) military spokesman Rasiah Ilanthiraiyan told Reuters by telephone from the town of Kilinochchi, the rebels’ northern stronghold. “They are moving with tanks and armoured personnel carriers towards our forward defence line,” he added, referring to the fighting in Batticaloa. “They are trying to come into our territory. They have breached the no-man’s zone and are still in it.”

The military denied it had entered no-man’s land, and said that air force fighter jets had launched a third consecutive day of air strikes on rebel positions after rebels initiated attacks.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Ruh Roh: Russia Rushes 'Ranians Rockets
Russia sends air defense system to Iran
Russia has begun delivery of Tor-M1 air defense missile systems to Iran, a Defense Ministry official said Friday, confirming that Moscow would proceed with arms deals with Tehran in spite of Western criticism.
The Tsar needs no approval, no friends, no allies, no nuthin'. He is Tsar.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue, declined to specify when the deliveries had been made and how many systems had been delivered.
Egggzactly eleventy-seven.
Ministry officials have previously said Moscow would supply 29 of the sophisticated missile systems to Iran under a US$700 million (€565 million) contract signed in December, according to Russian media reports.
Anything for a buck. Seen these pix of my seester?
The United States called on all countries last spring to stop all arms exports to Iran, as well as ending all nuclear cooperation with it to put pressure on Tehran to halt uranium enrichment activities. Israel, too, has severely criticized arms deals with Iran.
Bad Mullahs. Bad.
Tehran insists its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, but the United States and its allies suspect Iran is trying to develop weapons.
The Little Engine That 'Sploded. Really good.
The UN Security Council, where Russia is a veto-wielding permanent member, is currently stalemated on the severity of sanctions on Iran for defying its demand to cease uranium enrichment.
Neener, neener!
The Tor-M1 deal, involving conventional weapons, does not violate any international agreements.
Just common sense.
Russian officials say that the missiles are purely defensive weapons with a limited range.
Yah, so?
According to the Interfax news agency, the Tor-M1 system can identify up to 48 targets and fire at two targets simultaneously at a height of up to 6,000 meters (20,000 feet).
We know.
Russian media have reported previously that Moscow had conducted talks on selling even more powerful long-range S-300 air defense missiles, but Russian officials have denied that.
Who, us? Why would you think that? Now whaddabout my seester?
AFP version here.
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 10:02 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Who gets the feeling China/Russia are the brains behind the terrorist states of Iran, North of Korea and Syria???!!
Posted by: Ebbolump Glomotle9608 || 11/24/2006 11:33 Comments || Top||

#2  Anybody who doesn't understand the effects of the Islamic meme on its victims.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:39 Comments || Top||

#3  at: http://defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm

is a description of the Tor-M1

It is advertised to be able to hit cruise missiles and other smaller targets with a high degree of accuracy.

I'm willing to believe the Tor-M1 could take out helicopters or most jets that got within 4 miles of the site but its hard to believe it could take out our best (or even 2nd best) air to surface missiles.

Anyone familiar with the Tor-M1?
Posted by: mhw || 11/24/2006 14:05 Comments || Top||

#4  What good is a missile with that range when we have GPS-guided iron bombs with greater range?
Posted by: Rob Crawford || 11/24/2006 15:06 Comments || Top||

#5  Russian officials say that the missiles are purely defensive weapons with a limited range.

So why bother owning them if they do nothing? Protection against another locust invasion or something?

Russian media have reported previously that Moscow had conducted talks on selling even more powerful long-range S-300 air defense missiles, but Russian officials have denied that.

Well, any excuses that they came up with were so wretchedly flimsy all they had left was denial, I suppose.
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 16:46 Comments || Top||

#6  So why bother owning them if they do nothing? Protection against another locust invasion or something?

Think Medicine Shirt
Posted by: Shipman || 11/24/2006 18:36 Comments || Top||

#7  Actually, I'm thinking that now we know why they say Iran's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes . . . .
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 19:21 Comments || Top||

#8  Various Mil Forum'ers believe that Iran is intent on setting up circa INTEGRATED, TIGHTLY CONTROLLED FIVE KILLING ZONES around Iran in case of a US invasion, as defended by well-equipped IRGC + asymmetric warfare guerilla = insurgent units. Iran is intent on acquiring S-300/400's, KILOS, ADVANS FLANKERS, + UPGRADED FENCER FIGHTER-BOMBERS, Missle-/Air Defense Radars. NOT JUST FROM RUSSIA, BUT ALSO FROM CHINA + EUROS [read, FRANCE]. RUSSIA > IRAN WILL HAVE NUKE BOMBS IN TWO YEARS [2008? Calling POTUS/CO-POTUS VEEP HILLARY]. Nuke bombs = meant as a last-resort, "take 'em all with us to hell" act agz ISRAEL = US Euro-Allies.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 11/24/2006 21:13 Comments || Top||

#9  Something needs to be flown up RasPutin's shorts damn soon.
Posted by: Zenster || 11/24/2006 22:14 Comments || Top||


Clashes in Lebanese-Palestinian refugee camp
Gunmen opened fire on security forces in a Palestinian refugee camp in north Lebanon in a short battle that left three people wounded Thursday, Palestinian officials said. The clash erupted when a combined squad of Palestinian and Lebanese security forces came to investigate reports that a suspicious group had entered the camp and hired an apartment near the mosque in Beddawi camp near the city of Tripoli, the National News Agency reported.

The battle involved automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenades, the official agency reported. The news agency said the number of casualties was not known but could include fatalities. Palestinian officials reached by phone said three people were wounded and taken to the camp's hospital. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to talk to the media, said the casualties included one member of the security forces.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They're probably arguing about who gets first shot at bending the Frogs over.
Posted by: Zenster || 11/24/2006 2:03 Comments || Top||

#2  Suspicion over such small matters? We can use this . . . .
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 2:07 Comments || Top||

#3  the number of casualties was not known but could include fatalities

Yes, please.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 22:00 Comments || Top||


Lebanon: Hundreds Of Thousands Rally For Gemayel's Funeral
(AKI) - Hundreds of thousands of Lebanese gathered Thursday to pay their last respects for the country's industry minister Pierre Gemayel, a prominent Christian politician whose assassination has exacerbated the country's political crisis. Lebanon's pro-Syrian president Emile Lahoud did not attend the funeral for Gemayel whose killing has been blamed by many on Syria. Damascus has condemned the assassination and denied any role in it.

Many in the crowds that gathered with flags and posters near the site of the service at Beirut's Maronite St George Cathedral shouted anti-Syrian slogans, but Gemayel's father Amin Gemayel - a former president - called for calm. Speaking from a bullet-proof box he also said the country's leaders should take note of the huge turnout for his son's funeral. "It is a warning for the sake of Lebanon for the establishment of real and genuine sovereignty," he said. His son's "soul would consolidate our faith to achieve all goals for which our heroes have been martyrs", he added.

Pierre Gemayel's killing by unknown gunmen in Beirut on Tuesday has raised fears that it could trigger an explosion of violence in the multi-sectarian nation of four million. Hundreds of troops have been deployed in the capital, with the country in a state of high tension. The United Nations Security Council has agreed to a request from Lebanon to help investigate the murder.

Pierre Gemayel, 34, was a member of Premier Fouad Siniora's government which came to power when a coalition of anti-Syrian groups won elections in June 2005 - the first to be held without a Syrian military presence in the country in almost three decades.

Gemayel's murder has further rocked Lebanon's unstable poltical system. Last week six pro-Syrian cabinet members resigned and the government is on the verge of collapse. The UN commission already looking into the murder of another anti-Syrian politician, ex-Lebanese premier Rafik Hariri in 2005 has indicated it will take on the inquiry into Pierre Gemayel's killing. A recent report compiled by the commission has implicated Syrian officials in the death, but Syria continues to deny involvement.
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Christians used to have a country called Lebanon... Paris of the East they called Beirut.

Then they let in the Muslim refugees.

Now look at it.
Posted by: anon1 || 11/24/2006 8:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Less talk, more action.
Posted by: gromgoru || 11/24/2006 11:47 Comments || Top||


Good morning
Zambonis Rampage Through BoiseBombs kill 160 in Baghdad, curfew imposedMourners join call for anti-Syria revolutionSomalia on knife-edge as Ethiopia, Islamists ready for all-out warMacedonian consulate blast: Nine Harkat activists acquittedThat's gotta hurt: Iran Is Suspended From World SoccerPalestinians offer Israel limited truceTerror accused in Germany: plot was a 'joke'
Posted by: Fred || 11/24/2006 11:03 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Okay, that was worth waiting for, heh. ;-)
Posted by: .com || 11/24/2006 11:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Okay, I've fantacized an entire night spent with Ms Marshall. But how's she gonna fix breakfast with those sleeves?
Posted by: JDB || 11/24/2006 14:30 Comments || Top||

#3  I think it's bedtime.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 11/24/2006 14:33 Comments || Top||

#4  Those aren't sleeves. It's kinda like a robe except it's only for show, not to cover anything up.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 11/24/2006 14:35 Comments || Top||

#5  If it's only for show, it's working.
Posted by: Scott R || 11/24/2006 21:36 Comments || Top||

#6  I know what's for breakfast!
Posted by: Skidmark || 11/24/2006 21:36 Comments || Top||

#7  For me? Or for her . . . ? >:-)
Posted by: gorb || 11/24/2006 23:09 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Fri 2006-11-24
  Palestinians offer Israel limited truce
Thu 2006-11-23
  Sunni Car Boom Offensive Kills 133 Shia in Baghdad
Wed 2006-11-22
  Nørway økays giving Mullah Krekar the bøøt
Tue 2006-11-21
  Pierre Gemayel assassinated
Mon 2006-11-20
  Sudanese troops, Janjaweed rampage in Darfur
Sun 2006-11-19
  SCIIRI bigshot banged in Baghdad
Sat 2006-11-18
  UN General Assembly calls for Israel to end military operation in Gaza
Fri 2006-11-17
  Moroccan convicted over 9/11 plot
Thu 2006-11-16
  Morocco holds 13 suspected Jihadist group members
Wed 2006-11-15
  Nasrallah vows campaign to force gov't change
Tue 2006-11-14
  Khost capture was Zawahiri deputy?
Mon 2006-11-13
  Palestinians agree on nonentity as PM
Sun 2006-11-12
  Five Shia ministers resign from Lebanese cabinet
Sat 2006-11-11
  Haniyeh offers to resign for aid
Fri 2006-11-10
  US Rejects UN Resolutions on Gaza Violence as One-Sided

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