Afghan president Hamid Karzai is preparing for a two-day meeting with President Bush at Camp David starting on Sunday while his government is facing pressures over how to secure the release of the 21 surviving South Korean hostages, combat the Taliban insurgency and rein in Afghanistans opium poppy trade, reports Pamela Constable for the Washington Post.
According to the report, Bush administration officials have described the meeting as a private strategy session between partners and a chance to reiterate unwavering US support for Karzais government.
The most urgent issue is that of the Taliban. Its recent kidnapping of 23 Korean church volunteers shows how the insurgency is getting closer to driving out foreign troops and restoring strict Islamic rule, according to Constable.
She writes that Karzai prefers to negotiate his way out of problems. Many Afghans also support a negotiated peace with insurgents. But, she adds, US officials reject this approach, especially in hostage situations.
According to the report, the Taliban have made their presence known in widening swaths in recent months. The government has lost the confidence of our people, and the Taliban are getting more powerful, said Roshanak Wardak, a rural obstetrician and parliamentarian from Wardak, a poor region currently plagued by the Taliban.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:25 ||
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GHAZNI, Afghanistan - The governor of the Afghan province where Taleban militants took 23 South Koreans hostage accused Pakistani Taleban working with Pakistani intelligence agents of holding them captive.
In the beginning it was the local Taleban, but after a few days, Pakistani Taleban and ISI officers disguised as Taleban arrived in the region and they took control of the situation, Ghazni Governor Merajuddin Pattan told Reuters in an interview on Saturday.
Bringing in the pros and the higher-ups to manage the situation.
Pakistani officials were not immediately available for comment on Pattans accusation.
Pattan said that during one telephone conversation, he had heard one of the kidnappers translating from Pashto, the language used by ethnic Pashtun Taleban, to Urdu, Pakistans national language. He also noted that the kidnappers had stopped setting deadlines since South Korean presidential envoy Baek Jong-chun travelled to Islamabad on Thursday to ask Pakistans government and Islamist political leaders such as Fazal-ur-Rehman to use their influence to obtain the hostages release.
Wotta coincidence.
I spoke to the Korean diplomats and I told them that if you want this problem to be ended very soon, please put pressure on Pakistans Foreign Ministry, they will put pressure on the ISI, Pattan said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
its about time pakistan and the isi decide what side they are on!!!!!!
without saudi money ISI would be bankrupt!!!!!
Posted by: Paul ||
08/05/2007 16:37 Comments ||
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#2
They decided that long ago ... in 1947 when the world's very first Islamic Republic was created with a brand new capital city.. Islamabad (city of Islam) and an official motto for the army ...
"Iman-Taqwa-Jihad fi sabilillah "
(Faith, Fear of Allah, Jihad in the way of Allah)
Posted by: john frum ||
08/05/2007 20:08 Comments ||
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GHAZNI, Afghanistan - An Afghan negotiator on Saturday again ruled out a prisoner exchange to free 21 South Koreans held by the Taleban, saying it was against the policy of Afghanistan and the United States.
Talks to free the group of aid workers, most of them said to be ill, are being conducted mainly by South Korea and could only involve settling on a ransom payout, parliamentarian Mahmood Gailani told AFP.
Not only the Americans are opposed to an exchange of prisoners, its against the policy of the government, he said. The talks are now mainly by South Koreans. They can only talk about money, ransom, he added.
Days earlier Gailani described negotiations between the Afghan government and hardline rebels as stuck.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Hopefully this will so embarrass the SKor government that they will send in their 'A' team to resolve the situation with maximum loss of life to the bad guyz.
#2
I get the distinct feeling the SKORS have been Pussified, don't look for anything beyond hand-wringing and quiet indignation, (And maybe Cash, but I hope not.)
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/05/2007 10:56 Comments ||
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#3
aid workers? Aren't they Christian missionaries? If true, why does the MSM find it necessary to sanitize that out?
Posted by: AT ||
08/05/2007 16:00 Comments ||
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(SomaliNet) The leader of the executive council of the defeated Islamic Courts Union, Sheik Sharif Sheik Ahmed strongly denied on Saturday there were secret negotiations between his group and the Ethiopian government.
"Never happened!"
In an interview with the local Shabelle radio, Sheik Ahmed who is now skulking about in Asmara pointed out that a dialog could be a solution to the political deadlocks, "but there were never talks between us and Ethiopia because our plan is clear. We need Ethiopia out of our country," he said.
He says as he hides like a Nancy-boy in Eritrea.
His remarks came as Asharqalawsat, the Arabic online newspaper based in London reported Saturday that it quoted an Islamist leader, saying Ethiopia has been engaged in political dialog with the leaders of the Courts. The leader spoke on the condition of anonymity, the paper said.
The paper reported that no results have yet to come out from the secret talks.
We guessed that.
The Islamist leader confirmed that Ethiopia and Somalia's Islamists were negotiating, but he did not say if the talks have been done through telephone or meeting. He said the talks focused on issues relating to the presence of Ethiopian forces in Somalia, indicating that solution may emerge only if the thousands of Ethiopian troops in strife-ridden country were pulled out.
He pointed that a number of African and Arab states were mediating the Islamist-Ethiopian talks, refusing to mention the names of the countries involved in the arbitration. Sheik Ahmed said there were peace efforts conducted by the Arab League to resolve Somalia's crises. "The talks between the Islamic Courts leaders that are outside the country are in progress," he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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Global rights group Amnesty International has urged Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to allow independent observers at the trial by a military court of 40 members of the opposition Muslim Brotherhood. We look to President Mubarak, as Egypts highest authority, to open the doors to this important trial, Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said in a statement ahead of Sundays latest hearing. He should clear the way for it to receive the scrutiny it deserves, she said. The 40 activists on trial at a military base include the organisations number three, Khayrat al-Shater. They are accused of funding an illegal organisation and money-laundering charges they were originally acquitted from in a civil court. We unreservedly oppose the Egyptian governments use of military courts to try civilians, Khan said. In Egypts military courts judges are serving members of the armed forces and military courts cannot be seen as independent and impartial tribunals for civilians. Their use for highly charged political cases - such as the current trial of leading members of the Muslim Brotherhood - suggests that the defendants may be denied a fair trial. International observers, including former US attorney general Ramsey Clark, have already been barred from attending previous hearings of the trial.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:36 ||
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SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korean leader Kim Jong Il has visited military bases for four straight days, an unusual frequency that has prompted speculation he may be about to make a decision regarding the country's disputed nuclear program.
The visits come ahead of a joint U.S.-South Korean military exercise. On Friday, North Korea denounced the upcoming Aug. 20-21 drill as an "unacceptable provocation."
The North's official Korean Central News Agency reported Saturday that Kim inspected an army unit and expressed satisfaction with its combat readiness. It was the fourth straight day that KCNA reported Kim visiting an army base. Chosun Ilbo, South Korea's largest newspaper, said the visits may indicate Kim was about to make an important decision, possibly regarding his country's nuclear programs.
Or that he ran out of cognac and blondes.
Kim periodically visits military bases to ensure the loyalty of his troops, the backbone of his iron-fisted rule. But it is unusual for him to make so many visits in such a short time. "I think the main purpose is to boost the morale of soldiers during vacation season and ahead of" the joint military exercise, said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert at Seoul's Dongguk University.
Because there's nothing like a visit from Shortie to boost morale amongst the starving troops.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
I wonder if they disarm all troops prior to a base visit. During parades, all firearms must be in an unloaded state. Someone desperately needs to pop a cap into Kim's ass.
#4
Their vacation season is when they are allowed to forage in the countryside.
Posted by: Army Life ||
08/05/2007 11:15 Comments ||
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#5
I imagine that the only big decision that any bigwig will make after four successive dog-and-pony shows will be the color tie he will wear to the unprecedented 5th dog-and-pony show.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/05/2007 22:26 Comments ||
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The French president has said he backs an inquiry to determine if an arms deal was offered to Libya in exchange for the release of six Bulgarian medics. The statement from Nicolas Sarkozy's office came after the French leader left for his summer holidays in the US.
News of a contract between France and Libya for arms worth $405m (£199m) sparked suspicion in France. The deal was announced just one week after the six medics, imprisoned in Libya for eight years, were released.
France's opposition socialist party has called for an inquiry to reveal the details of negotiations between the two countries.
"The president of the republic favours the initiative of... calling for the creation of a parliamentary inquiry into recent developments between France and Libya," Mr Sarkozy's office said. It added it was confident the investigation would confirm all the statements made by the French authorities.
France's defence minister said on Friday that the deal had been in the pipeline for months. Herve Morin added that since an arms embargo had been lifted France was one of several countries in discussions with Libya. "There are a lot of countries in talks with Tripoli: the Italians, the Russians, British," Mr Morin said.
But Muammar Gaddafi's son has said that drawing the medics' case to a conclusion had paved the way for the deal.
Mr Sarkozy had promised to visit Libya if the case of the medics, who insisted their confessions of deliberately infecting children with HIV were made after torture, was completely resolved. French officials insist that no arms agreements were signed during the visit of Mr Sarkozy to Tripoli the following day.
Of course not. It didn't need to be - the deal was understood to be closed discreetly.
Barack Obama was trying to give a boost to his poll ratings when he declared on Wednesday that he was prepared to unilaterally send US troops into Pakistan to get terrorists, states Pramit Pal Chaudhuri of the Hindustan Times.
Chaudhuri says Obama was not trying to warn President General Pervez Musharraf, but was instead attempting to impress the US public with his firm stance on an issue of war.
In his speech, Obama argued he would withdraw US soldiers from Iraq, but increase their numbers in Afghanistan. He also alleged that Musharraf hadnt done enough in the fight against Al Qaeda. This appeared to be in direct response to a poll by American Research Group that showed Clinton had a 21-point lead over Obama after he said he was prepared to unconditionally meet leaders like Irans Mahmoud Ahmedinejad and North Koreas Kim Jong-Il.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:30 ||
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#1
attempting to impress the US public
You can "impress" me by swimming the Atlanta. No stopping off in Ireland. Ring me up from Blackpool.
WASHINGTON (AP) - The House on Saturday delayed action on a Senate-passed bill to expand the government's abilities to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States. Lawmakers in both parties said they expected the measure to pass late Saturday or early Sunday.
The bill would update the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA. It would give the government leeway to intercept, without warrants, communications between foreigners that are routed through equipment in United States, provided that ``foreign intelligence information'' is at stake.
Seems like a reasonable bill to me, but then, I'm interested in seeing our intel services nail the bad guys.
The government long has had substantial powers to intercept purely foreign communications that don't touch U.S. soil. If a U.S. resident becomes the chief target of surveillance, the government would have to obtain a warrant from the special FISA court.
Bush and his allies demanded that Congress approve the FISA changes before starting its August recess. ``Al-Qaida is not going on vacation this month,'' said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.
Congressional Democrats won a few concessions in negotiations earlier in the week. New wiretaps must be approved by the director of national intelligence and the attorney general, not just the attorney general. The new law would expire in six months unless Congress renewed it. The administration wanted the changes to be permanent.
WASHINGTON (AP) - The House handed President Bush a victory Saturday, voting to expand the government's abilities to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States.
The 227-183 vote, which followed the Senate's approval Friday, sends the bill to Bush for his signature. He had urged Congress to approve it, saying Saturday, "Protecting America is our most solemn obligation."
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Good, now the DU and Kos kids can go around screaming that Bushitler has removed habeas corpus, eroding our constitutional rights, and that their own dear donks have voted to give Bushitler that power. Oh, the humanities !
DOWN WITH THE DONKS ! SHEEHAN NOW !
FORT CAMPBELL, Kentucky -- A military jury has found a soldier guilty of rape and murder in the slayings of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and her family. Jurors deliberated much of Friday evening before convicting Army Pfc. Jesse Spielman, 22, of conspiracy to commit rape, rape, housebreaking with intent to commit rape and four counts of felony murder.
Spielman, was charged in connection with the March 12, 2006, slaying of the girl and the killings of her family. The attack took place in Mahmoudiya, a village about 20 miles (30 kilometers) south of Baghdad. Military prosecutors did not say Spielman took part in the rape or murders, but alleged he went to the house knowing what the others intended to do and served as a lookout. Spielman had pleaded guilty on Monday to lesser charges of conspiracy to obstructing justice, arson, wrongfully touching a corpse and drinking.
The judge scheduled a sentencing hearing for Saturday morning. Spielman faces a mandatory life sentence. The jury will decide if he will be eligible for parole.
Shameful.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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Military prosecutors did not say Spielman took part in the rape or murders, but alleged he went to the house knowing what the others intended to do and served as a lookout...Spielman faces a mandatory life sentence.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but unlike civie penal systems, there is no parole in the sense that one is let out to pursue a 'normal' life with restrictions.
Pfc. Jesse Spielman, 22
Now E1 Spielman, will have a long time to contemplate on his actions. Gives new meaning to the term Lifer.
India and Bangladesh have promised swift action against insurgents taking shelter in each others countries, citing terrorism as a common threat. Both neighbours have in the past accused each other of harbouring terrorists and criminals who stage cross-border attacks, an issue that has strained normally cordial ties. The use of the territory of either country will not be allowed for terrorist and criminal activities against the other country, said a statement issued in the Indian capital late on Friday by the two countries. It described terrorism as a common threat and promised to step up cooperation and information sharing, following two days of talks between Indian Home Secretary Madhukar Gupta and his Bangladeshi counterpart, Abdul Karim, in New Delhi. Gupta said Karim brought a clear message from Bangladeshs military-backed government that it wanted a spirit of mutual trust and understanding. Bangladesh has been under emergency rule since January when the government took power after months of violence over disputed elections. It has vowed to clean up Bangladeshs notoriously corrupt politics before staging polls by late 2008.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:32 ||
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Wafaqal Madaris Chief Administrator Qari Hanif Julandhri told a press conference on Saturday that a constitutional application had been filed in the Supreme Court (SC) against the extra-judicial killings in the Lal Masjid operation. The petition was filed against President Pervez Musharraf, Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao, the Rawalpindi corps commander, chief commissioner, inspector general and deputy commissioner. It requested the SC to order registration of a first information report (FIR) against them. The SC will hear the case on August 9. Julandhri said that according to the constitutional application, a large number of men, women and children were killed in the operation, which was extra-judicial murder, and that the government had no right to kill, according to the Constitution. The application stated that Jamia Hafsa was demolished to remove evidence of murder of the people in there. The petitioner requested the court to issue orders to safeguard the debris of Jamia Hafza till the completion of an investigation. The petition also requested that Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa students who had surrendered be released immediately, and asked the court to take action against the alleged desecration of the Holy Quran.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:28 ||
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#1
Pervert needs to clean house in his Supreme Court when they rule that the government can't do anything against a group that has usurped the power of law and order in his country. Of course, we've all known that Pakistan is a "failed state" for decades, but its nice for the SC to prove the issue to the entire world.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/05/2007 18:28 Comments ||
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Tribal elder Malik Mamoor Khan told Daily Times after meeting NWFP Governor Ali Jan Orakzai on Saturday that no elders would participate in the Pak-Afghan jirga starting from August 9 in Kabul if security forces were not withdrawn from all checkposts in North Waziristan.
The Ahmedzai Wazir tribes in South Waziristan have already boycotted the jirga, stating that it was useless to talk to Afghan President Hamid Karzai in the presence of US occupational forces in Afghanistan. We cannot stop fighting in our own area, how can we do it for Afghanistan? Malik argued. The government was told about the boycott, he said, but denied that the boycott was a result of Taliban threats. Around 50 delegates from North and South Waziristan were nominated for the 700-strong jirga. It will be inaugurated by President Pervez Musharraf and President Hamid Karzai and will take up a seven-point agenda, with decisions to be implemented by a permanent commission at the end.
Akhtar Amin adds: Participants at a national jirga organised by the Pakistan NGOs Forum said that the Pak-Afghan Jirga would fail without the participation of Taliban representatives, and unless Pakistan stopped interfering in Afghanistans internal matters. The Pak-Afghan jirga is not independent, nor does it have sufficient representatives, they said.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:23 ||
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WASHINGTON: The US has said that India retains the sovereign right to explode a nuclear device but it hopes such a situation will not arise, Nicholas Burns, US undersecretary of state, was quoted as saying.
Burns gave a special briefing on Friday to a group of Indian correspondents based here to mark the release of the text of the Indian-American nuclear cooperation agreement. India retains its sovereign rights, but the US retains its legal rights as well, he said when asked if India has the right to test. He pointed out that the agreement takes into account the worst case scenario, but we hope very much that it wont be necessary because we hope that conditions that prompt it will not materialise.
Burns said larger nuclear powers have abstained from conducting nuclear tests and he expected India to follow suit. He said the US retains the legal right to recall fuel and technology it supplies to India but that would be the choice of the president of the day and it would not be automatic.
We'll just cough politely and look away 'til someone throws on a blanket.
If you look ahead and you try to envision what would constitute a discontinuity of supply, how would that happen, there are four or five or six ways that could happen and only one of them has to do with a nuclear test, the Press Trust of India quoted Burns as saying. If somehow supplies for environmental reasons, for political reasons are (sic) discontinued to India, then of course India has the benefit of working with the US and other countries in construction of a strategic fuel supply reserve that could help it, if there is discontinuity, he added.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki told ABC News he does not want to set any timetable for a U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, a major shift in his position. "Anything specific I can not give, neither us nor the U.S. government can set up a timetable," Maliki said.
Just eight months ago Maliki told ABC News anchor Charles Gibson that he wanted Iraqi security forces to take over from U.S. troops by June of this year -- that is, last month. In Thursday's interview in his office in the heavily protected Green Zone Maliki said he wouldn't rule out U.S. troops still being in Iraq in five years time. "It all depends on the success and the agreements between us & neither we nor the U.S. government want to lose all the progress we have made," Maliki said.
In the past Maliki has seemed impatient for the Iraqi army and police to take over from the United States, perhaps to emphasize his nationalism in the face of an occupying army. But with the United States now making some progress on the ground against al Qaeda, Maliki may have changed his views. In fact, he said that if the United States were to withdraw too soon, Iraq could be plunged into civil war. "When we can establish security & then our security forces will be ready through training to take over," he said.
When asked when he thought the last U.S. soldier would leave Iraq, Maliki was unsure. "This depends on the success we can achieve," he said.
Maliki admitted that the Iraqi parliament was not moving ahead to pass laws as quickly as he would like, but he said this was due to political infighting among different groups in the parliament. Yet he seemed strangely unconcerned about the mounting pressure in the U.S. Congress for a troop withdrawal based on the apparent lack of political progress in Baghdad. "I don't think there is a correlation between the presence of U.S. forces and the Iraqi parliament."
When asked about Defense Secretary Robert Gates' recent comments regarding his frustration at the lack of political progress in Iraq -- even as more than 3,000 U.S. soldiers have died in the country -- Maliki said "Iraq has just emerged from dictatorship into a national unity government & it is progressing, but very slowly."
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
"Yet he seemed strangely unconcerned about the mounting pressure in the U.S. Congress for a troop withdrawal based on the apparent lack of political progress in Baghdad. "I don't think there is a correlation between the presence of U.S. forces and the Iraqi parliament."
Iraq's power grid is on the brink of collapse because of insurgent sabotage, rising demand, fuel shortages and provinces that are unplugging local power stations from the national grid, officials said Saturday.
Electricity Ministry spokesman Aziz al-Shimari said power generation nationally is only meeting half the demand, and there had been four nationwide blackouts over the past two days. The shortages across the country are the worst since the summer of 2003, shortly after the U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein, he said. Power supplies in Baghdad have been sporadic all summer and now are down to just a few hours a day, if that. The water supply in the capital has also been severely curtailed by power blackouts and cuts that have affected pumping and filtration stations.
Karbala province south of Baghdad has been without power for three days, causing water mains to go dry in the provincial capital, the Shiite holy city of Karbala.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
I think they might be looking in the wrong place for the cause of disruption of the power system. The way I understand it, local neighborhood entrepreneurs with generating capacity are providing their neighbors with power at a profit. It serves them to see that the national grid has problems. The more time that the grid is down, the more money they make selling backup power to their neighbors.
So ... I would pick the largest two power suppliers in each neighborhood and make them a part of the system. Give them a "commission" on each kilowatt hour of national power. Basically make it more worth their while to PROTECT the national grid than to disrupt it. Then you bring these guys on board as some kind of power distribution committee and allow them to have input in the power generation and distribution process.
This gives them a stake in the national grid overall and in their neighborhood in particular. Give them a commission on power sold in their neighborhood and a bonus for overall national power delivery. This means that if a neighboring district loses power, they lose money too. It gives them all a financial incentive for the central system to work. As it stands now, they have a vested interest in seeing the central system fail.
#4
We could quietly boost Baghdad's capacity by importing several portable SSTAR reactors to the Baghdad airport. They are about 15 meters high and 3 meters wide and weigh about 500 tons, produce a respectable amount of energy, their fuel cannot be weaponized, and they don't produce must waste.
They are designed to be transported to emergency use sites, and produce from 10 to 100MW.
http://www.llnl.gov/str/JulAug04/Smith.html
I gather both the Japanese and South Africans have developed portables that are even smaller.
#5
Ok it sucks for the US plans for Iraq but really, is electricity halal? Did mohammad use it? Isn't electricity yet another evil western influence? Aren't the turbans designed to keep those muzzies cool headed? Heh heh cool headed muzzies. I crack myself up.
#6
cross patch - don't we do something similar to that here in the US. People who generate their own energy with solar and other means have the ability to sell their energy back to the power co's. I don't know how it works -but I know it is done.
Posted by: AT ||
08/05/2007 10:31 Comments ||
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#7
I know how it works, essentialy you're giving your power to the utility, then paying to get it back, it's a wholesale and retail thing at greatly different rates.
You sell to the grid at wholesale, buy back at retail.
Lousy idea for home electricity generators, great for the utility.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/05/2007 11:05 Comments ||
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#8
It's my understanding that electrical power is FREE in Iraq... so of course their grid is near collapse. Any free resource will be over-utilized and used inefficiently.
It's not our problem the don't meter their electricity. I'll care (maybe) when they start to charge.
#9
In general, consumers sell electricity back to utilities at wholesale rates. As much as power utilities pi$$ us off with dumb things that they do, the bottom line is that the utility has to have power available to you 24/7. You, on the other hand, may or may not be available to provide power. So, the arrangement is basically fair.
Big grids are good in many ways, but they are also vilnerable to some serious shutdowns, and problematic startups. I would like to see electricity created from diverse sources. Cogen is good. It makes the system more resistant to major hits. Both natural and man-made.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/05/2007 12:27 Comments ||
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#10
Sorry to differ with you Redneck Jim, but you have got it backwards. The incremental cost for a major utility to generate one additional kilowatt-hour of electricity is much less than what they are forced to pay for the same from someone who generates their own electricity and sells it to the utility company. There are some provisos with this dealing with peak and load demand. But by-and-large, someone who generates their own electricity is only paying for the generating capacity capital and using the utility company's distribution capital for free.
#11
The big story in this article (carefully hidden by ABC news) is the skyrocketing demand for electricity. The last time I checked the State Dept's weekly report, it showed Iraq's power generation had grown by 10% since last year but demand had grown by 40%.
The other big story is the provinces refusing to provide power to Baghdad. During Saddam's reign the provinces went without power (and water) to keep the capital happy. Those days are gone.
Al
Posted by: Frozen Al ||
08/05/2007 14:37 Comments ||
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#12
Please note that this story is from Associated [with Terrorist] Press.
#13
Back when I was there (left October '06), the tussle between the regions and Baghdad was an ongoing saga (as noted by some above).
Thing is, we've gotta keep in mind the reality of the situation. Demand IS going up, and went up dramatically post-liberation. But there are significant, fundamental, and intractable (in the short term) problems with Iraqi maintenance and operations of restored/upgraded facilities. Yeah, I know - "newsflash!". But that's the key reality. Whatever the imperfections of the assistance efforts, on balance you can bet they were performed pretty well under the cicrumstances. But all too often (at least back then, as the electricity guys would recount in heart-breaking detail), the Iraqis drop the ball.
I know some here react to such things by saying "screw 'em, we gave 'em a chance". My take is different. I am just as angry, and just as frustrated, but I view this entire enterprise in terms of our interests. In my estimation our vital interests are directly engaged in getting the best possible short-and-medium-term outcome in Iraq. Thus my agony over what has been, and in some respects may remain, an insufficiently serious military strategy, lack of a balls-out war with the Iranians, refusal to crush Sunni chauvinism as an ugly first condition of further development, etc.
Doesn't matter - this is a vital contest of wills, and I say do whatever it takes to prevail. Iraq's true interests coincide with ours, and while few there have the worldliness or confidence to recognize that, we should pursue success without worrying about being loved, appreciated, or even understood.
(KUNA) -- A well-informed Iranian source has denied news that stated that Iran's foreign minister Manuchehr Mottaki has left to Baghdad, confirming that Mottaki was still in Tehran. "Muhr" news agency quoted a foreign source, which it did not name, as saying that "such news were baseless." The source added that Mottaki's visit to Baghdad was not on his agenda and that he is still in Tehran. A local news agency earlier said that Mottaki had left for Baghdad.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 12:04 ||
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(KUNA) -- Polling centers closed in Lebanon in the two by-elections in Beirut's second constituency and the north-Meten one at six pm local time as a prelude to beginning the vote-counting. Unofficial results for the by-elections are expected by later Sunday night amid strict security measures and in view of an election decree that was not approved by Lebanese President Emile Lahoud, who has been treating the government of Prime Minister Fuad Al-Siniora as a non-existent one. Meanwhile, the Christian Maronite Church tried but failed to prevent the by-election, at least in north Meten to avoid negative repercussions of such an electoral clash between two leading Christian politicians, namely former President Amin Gemayel and Camille Khoury, who was fielded by MP Michel Aoun. The by-election in north Meten has widened the gap between the Kataeb Party (Gemayel) and the Free Patriotic Movement (Aoun).
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 12:03 ||
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Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said on Friday the United States was trying to intimidate Lebanese people by taking punitive financial action against opponents of the Western-backed Beirut government. US President George W. Bush on Thursday ordered a freeze on the US assets of anyone Washington deems to be undermining Prime Minister Fouad Sinioras government. Those targeted were not identified. Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran and Syria, is at the heart of a Lebanese opposition which has been demanding veto power in the cabinet. The governing coalition has accused Hezbollah and its allies of wanting to mount a coup that would open the door to a return of Syrian control of Lebanon. Nasrallah said Bush was doing all he could to protect the governing coalition. Sinioras government had become a part of US national security, he said. Bush comes out and says: You Lebanese, whoever shakes the Siniora government, I will act against legally, financially and economically, Nasrallah said in a televised address to supporters in the Bekaa Valley town of Baalbek. Why this intimidation of Lebanese? he asked. The speech was also televised on Hezbollahs al-Manar station. Bush considers the Siniora government part of American national security and part of American policy. Oh Lebanese, we are demanding a government which (represents) Lebanese national security and not American national security. Bushs executive order targets anyone considered to be fuelling violence in Lebanon or contributing to what it called Syrian interference in the country.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2007 11:35 ||
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ALGIERS - Irans outspoken President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called on Israel to go find somewhere else for its state and leave its territory for the creation of a Palestinian state, according to an interview published on Saturday. Our support (for the Palestinian people) is unconditional. As for the Israelis, let them go find somewhere else, Ahmadinejad told several Algerian newspapers ahead of an visit to Algiers that starts Monday.
Iran consistently refuses to recognise Israels right to exist in the Middle East, and Ahmadinejad sparked outrage abroad by stating after coming to power in 2005 that Israel should be wiped from the map. He also provoked a storm in June by saying a countdown had begun that would end with Lebanese and Palestinian militants destroying Israel, and his government last year hosted a conference on the Holocaust questioning the German Nazis genocide of the Jews during World War II.
In his latest diatribe, the Iranian leader accused Israel of commiting butchery in the Palestinian territories. He criticised what he called the partial view of human rights in Western countries. He said there were secret prisons in Europe. In the United States peoples telephone conversations are listened to. In Britain, people are spied on using television cameras. In Palestine, Israel commits butchery. But no-one causes a scandal.
"And in Iran we do all these things, not just some of them! We are the most advanced nation on the planet!" he added.
Ahmadinejad said, too, that Iran wanted to cooperate with Algeria against terrorism. Islam bans the assassination of innocent people wherever they are, he said. We reject all methods of terrorism, whatever the denomination or motive, Ahmadinejad declared. Ahmadinejads visit to Algeria has not been officially confirmed by the authorities.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
OK, fine. How about the Persian Gulf coast of the Arabian peninsula?
Posted by: Gary and the Samoyeds ||
08/05/2007 0:03 Comments ||
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#2
But AJ, you were financing terrorism in Algeria. Oh, and the land does not belong to you. Thought I would remind you of that simple fact.
#3
Islam bans the assassination of innocent people wherever they are
The big catch is how Islam only regards Muslims as being "innocent". The USA really needs to begin a campaign of discrediting this sort of filth and lies. It is a huge failing of this administration to not have set up a powerful propaganda arm that routinely refutes and exposes the constant tissue of horseshit that pours forth from the MME (Muslim Middle East).
#1
This idea appalls all sorts of leftists delicate types. I think it just need some slight refinement. I'd say do this: Paradrop REALLY BIG H BOMBS (remote controlled) into all ME capitals and religiously important sites. Then have state department pantywaists (I love this part) go to said ME capitols and tell 'em "Ahem, next time there's a muzzie related terrorist hiccup anywhere in the west, that sucker goes off. Don't try to approach it either, or it'll go off anyway..."
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
08/05/2007 13:56 Comments ||
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#2
Trancredo should be given the Presidential Medal of Freedom. On second thought, forget the medal, just make him the president!
We do not wipe out holy sites in order to defend our way of life. Part of our way is to protect and acknowledge each other's religious beliefs. I don't have to agree with yours, but anyone threatening yours threatens me.
The Islamicists are doing precisely that, which is why they have to be extirpated. But blowing up holy sites makes me no better than them.
And I am better, dammit.
We won't blow up Islamic holy sites. We will hunt down the Islamicists and kill them. We will remove national leaders that cradle and coddle them. We will try as hard as we can to turn the Arab world away from extremism.
The alternatives are too horrible.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2007 14:23 Comments ||
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#4
Tancredo's suggestion that we bomb global Islamic holy sites was just as irresponsible as Obama's suggestion that we invade Pakistan.
Now if he would have said that for ever terrorist attack which occurs against a U.S. target anywhere in the world we would close five mosques in America, that would have been different...
#5
Steve, ever seen pictures of Berlin and Tokyo at the end of 1945*? One thing most people can see is that centuries of ingrained cultural militarism is not a factor in their lives.
The real argument is with ourselves. We're demonstrating we as a people do not have the political system that can sustain a kinder gentler form of altering the situation if it means years of commitment. So we have a choice, submit or get their attention in manner that can not be rationalized by their leaders as anything less than "We can adapt or go the way of the Carthaginians."
* or Charleston, SC, after a visit by Bobby Sherman in 1865.
#6
Part of our way is to protect and acknowledge each other's religious beliefs.
Steve, that would be all well and fine if Islam was a religion. Frankly, it's not. Islam is a political system of warfare that includes some of the most hideous abuses of human rights known to modern man. Please feel free to name one redeeming feature of modern Islam.
I'll try to avoid the whole; "It's a floor wax death cult, it's a dessert topping religion" argument right now. But essential Koranic doctrine places the entire non-Muslim world at risk. The process, as currently practiced, where you suggest that "We will hunt down the Islamicists and kill them. We will remove national leaders that cradle and coddle them. We will try as hard as we can to turn the Arab world away from extremism." is simply too glacial in its pace and incredibly expensive; Both in terms of our military casualties and the financial cost involved.
We simply do not have the luxury of prosecuting the Global War on Terrorism at such a sedentary pace. No matter how morally satisfying it is to our political traitor eleite to fight a "clean" war (as if there is even such a thing), they are merely consigning us to some sort of devastatingly brutal domestic terrorist attack that will set our nation's economy back an entire decade.
I cannot in good conscience withhold the use of full-scale military force for the sake of protecting a portion of this world's population that is sworn to destroy us.
Do we want our great grandchildren saying, "Why did you wait so long to take the gloves off - millions killed and swaths of the planet irradiated for the next 10,000 years before you told yourselves the truth and had the guts to do what obviously needed to be done?"
Or do we want them saying, "Gee, don't you think you were a little rough and judgmental when you took them out in '09?"
Interesting discussion.
Posted by: no mo uro ||
08/05/2007 15:17 Comments ||
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#8
Now if he would have said that for ever terrorist attack which occurs against a U.S. target anywhere in the world we would close five mosques in America, that would have been different...
If by "close" you mean "bulldoze", then I'm onboard, GP0723. No grand re-openings for Wahabbist indoctrination centers, just abrupt and direct retaliation for their perfidy.
#9
Nukes are a good deterrent, but they make a poor resolution.
Introducing the nuke option as a dispute settling option, to me is bad humanity. It signifies that everything has been done and the last resort has been reached. That could happen, but I don't see it. Decimation and genocide are better options than the bomb, so let us exhaust all forceful forms of violence before we zap their asses. That way there is the possibility of a survivor or two who will remember what happened and why.
#10
"We do not wipe out holy sites in order to defend our way of life. Part of our way is to protect and acknowledge each other's religious beliefs."
Of course we do wipe out holy sites. In America. We kill their women and children. All we need to know is that the prophet is a pedophile and that they are storing automatic weapons on their holy site in then we send in the ATF.
#11
Introducing the nuke option as a dispute settling option, to me is bad humanity. It signifies that everything has been done and the last resort has been reached. That could happen, but I don't see it. Decimation and genocide are better options than the bomb, so let us exhaust all forceful forms of violence before we zap their asses. That way there is the possibility of a survivor or two who will remember what happened and why.
Unusually well-thought out, wxjames. I agree with you and hope others will understand that first use of nuclear weapons is morally reprehensible. My only caveat is that; Should America be subjected to even a single NBC terrorist attack, then our Response In Kind need not be equimetric. In fact, at that point, I would prefer wildly asymmetric retaliation.
#12
Bravo for Tancredo putting this line into the national discussion -- he has been instrumental in driving the immigration debate, now he takes on the muslim menance. The NYT, WaPo and Vanity Fair think they set trend and shape America's thinking, but it's this half-a-whack-job from CO who's establishing the lines of debate.
Posted by: regular joe ||
08/05/2007 17:32 Comments ||
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#13
This suggestion is completely unacceptable...unless US Special Forces go in first to rescue the kittens and puppies.
#15
I thank both Tancredo and Obama for moving the debate forward. It's time we make a firm ID of the real enemy in all his disguises. One good thing about election campaigns is that important current events cannot be ignored as the press wants to do. They want to throw Obama under the bus for his Paki comment, but this needs to be aired.
#16
"the best way he could think of to deter a nuclear terrorist attack on the United States was to threaten to retaliate by bombing Islamic holy sites"
Actually I have zero problem with this except that we would have to be certain that the terrorist attack was indeed an Islamic terrorist attack, and that might be impossible if the evidence vaporizes. Qom first, please.
What are all you trigger-happy guys going to do if New York City vaporizes and no one claims responsibility? Just nuke everybody who dances in the streets?
#17
What are all you trigger-happy guys going to do if New York City vaporizes and no one claims responsibility?
Fortunatelyor however you wish to describe itIslam's towering hubris literally precludes such a possibility out to six significant figures past the decimal point.
A comprehensive plan of nuclear deterrence against terrorism would make it clear to any terrorist sponsoring or sheltering nations plus other proliferating rogue regimes that all of them will perish if we experience a single terrorist atomic attack. While I welcome any alternative suggestions, Mrs. Davis', plan still stands as just about the only way of making clear to Islam that they will lose everything by not cleaning up their act.
#18
I forget who said it but most major cities can be reached by sea. Simply sail up the river and pull the pin, and Ka-BOOM, vaporized evidence. Could be a rented fishing boat, but the main suspect will always be muzzies, and tracing phone records and emails usually puts a frame around the perps.
What to do after that, I know not, but I know what not to do. (See Willy Clinton military campaigns)
#20
I suggest responding in kind (the weapns used) but 10 times in load. One cathedral goes up in smoke, 10 moskkks up in smoke in return, one our city goes, 10 their cities of equivalent size go. One nuke, 10 nukes in return. Just state it that this is what is to be expected.
Sounds like a collective punishment? Sure. But the ummah has a choice, ether they will get their house in order and let not this scenario materialize, or they won't--in which case they bear a full responsibility what happens next.
Of course, in the case of nuke attack, we have means to figure out the origin of the device. We can locate any other type of attack to its origin with some degree of accuracy, too.
Now, the only problem I see here is that despite islamic nations trying hard to get a rid of their jihadis after they would be informed about the policy, an attack would be executed by immigrant jihadis and the investigation would ascertain that the connection is local (nuke would be another story, there has to be a source that can be pinned down and the supplier is fully responsible). This, of course, can be prevented by changes in immigration policies, by heavy profiling, and closing down edifices or institutions involved and jailing participants, when there's even a slight hint of hostility. Whenever possible, dispatch the jihadis/islamists to their place of origin so their own can take care of them.
It is the current state of affairs--the spinelessness of moral equivalency, the insane multi-culti, the we-are-not-sinking mind-set policies--that is the main facilitator of the whole islamist revival and their attemp to grab the low hanging fruit with no or a little effort.
#25
And I post every so often that you should get your own blog.
Why? He is asking a simple question in this case, not engaging in a long-winged opinion (even if that were the case, RB is here for that purpose).
It is almost as if that question makes you uncomfortable and you'd like to see its author shifted somewhere else so the question is not in your face.
Of course, I may be mistaken to read even a hint of what I stated in the previous sentence into your riposte... and you'll answer the question what redeeming features Islam has, in a short order.
#26
The Taliban had absolutely no problem blowing up two ancient Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan in March 2001. These can never be replaced. We in the West acknowledge islam to be practiced freely; Judaism and Christianity or other religions are not similarly acknowledged in islamic countries. Mecca is is just a monument--it happens to be sacred and valued by muslims. Dresden had very little military value (more of a cultural center) but it was firebombed to nearly total destruction. Possibilities such as outlined by Tancredo do have the value of suggesting that islamic countries ought to police up the trouble-makers in their countries because there is a risk associated with not doing that.
#27
And I post every so often that you should get your own blog. Nothing happens...
That's because I don't do blogs. I do not participate in them anywhere nor do I have one of my own. It's not my style. While, technically, Rantburg may be a blog, its format is that of a bulletin board with various forums and I respectfully attempt to participate in that spirit.
#28
Why the hang-up on being better than or more moral than the other guy?
First having been bad for a short while in my life - I have to say bad was a lot more fun.
If you don't accept the strictures of your group you are an outlaw ergo bad. Somebody who doesn't accept the group think - a paradigm braker and not moral.
Good essentially means that you accept the framework of your group with whatever strictures it has. (One man's taboo in another culture is a virtue.)
The problem with Steve's point of view is that he is anthropomorphizing. (applying all his blinders and strictures onto another without recognizing that you can't do it. Not even partially. It's not possible.) You accept the existing sets of paradigms.
Steve, let me put it this way. We say we have religion in this culture and that we are religious. From the point of view of true believers we are nothing further from that truth.
(perhaps we believe in the constitution or democracy or capitalism) Few in the US understand or know what true belief is. Jesus made the argument with is camel through the eye of a needle parable but for US citizens our reality has nothing in common with that reality so we can't see the implications. Its like having a "Jew for Jesus" explain the elements of the "passion". A whole set of realities exists in that explanation that a non-jew has no concept is even there.
Or as a friend, who was one of the leading Buddhist Scholars, said when asks by a reporter to define Buddhism as practiced in Japan upon his exit after decades there ..."It's a MaHat MaHat MaHat Mahat Ma San" (excuse the spelling) The reporter smiled but didn't understand. He was saying that they were too materialistic to understand Buddhism at all. They couldn't let go and even enter the lowest level of belief...
What we call belief is mainly practices at ritual and tradition. The Muslim's are if anything BELIEVERS. Large numbers still believe. We may find the results of their beliefs very dangerous to non-believers in Islam but because we only toy with belief we can't grok what it means that they believe. If we want to win this war - we have to destroy their belief. There is no other way. They and others can not exist on the same planet without them giving up their belief, the rest of us converting or the RoW destroying the meme and its adherents. Really Steve think about it...
By Muslim reality the the terrorist are true believers and a perfect example of sacrificing all for their belief. (Sacred being the root word of sacrifice and scar) To break that reality and not just postpone its victory means the end of Islam. There is no other way to look at it. There might be a new religion of the survivors that calls itself Islam but it could not be the original if it gave up Jihad. Think about it for awhile then decide what you can be moral doing within your reality but don't anthropomorphise. Its too dangerous.
#29
I would disagree that we have no true Christian believers in the US, 3dc, tho I wouldn't disagree that many who attend church or vaguely identify themselves as Christians wouldn't be in that category. That's true of a good number of culturally Muslim people too, altho fewer proportionally.
jAnd, don't forget that the US and Europe are now minority members of the Christian community. Look to the churches in Africa, for instance, for deep belief willing to face martyrdom if need be.
But even granting your points, I don't get the assumption that destroying the Ka'aba or Shiite shrines will somehow destroy belief in Islam. I really really doubt it would do that.
#30
Exceptionally interesting post, 3dc. I was preparing a similar rehash of high context versus low context societies for Steve's perusal. For high context societies, belief is everything. One has to maintain faith in the validity of one's social structure, familial status, cultural values with almost blind adherence. To challenge the paradigm or operate outside of the accepted norms is worse than death. It instigates shunning, coventry, call it what you will but historically, your gene line usually terminates at that point.
Islam is trying to terminate our gene line. Period. Those few of us who might survive the successful imposition of a global caliphate would be of insufficient numbers to any longer make a difference. Be it through violent jihad, slow jihad or demographic deluge, Islam is hell-bent upon eradicating every last trace of competing cultures from the face of this earth.
"We"as in those not Islamicdo not have a choice. To pretend that we do is delusional. "We" will cease to exist if "we" do not adequately oppose Islam with sufficient force to neutralize its offensive capability. That is our only option. There are no others. Assimilation into Islamwhat they call "submission"means that "we" will no longer exist. There is no acceptable aspect to such an alternative, therefore it is not an alternative. Ergo, dismantling Islam, be it through coercion or violent force is the only option.
PS: twobyfour, please email me at your convenience.
#31
lotp - unless you can viral the meme of Islam it will not be just sites. The sites may not matter but should not be ruled out. By avoiding the believing aspect and trying to put the "islamic facists" as a fringe - you are ignoring that the only way to "win" is to change or destroy a religion. This is what you shrink from.
Its a scary thought. How do you change or destory a faith? We need to have thousands working on that instead of putting our heads in the sand and saying such thoughts are off limits.
#33
That, also, goes to the core of why Islam attacked us now.
I suggest that it is because modern society it too attractive. Its was leading the faithful astray.
Remember me saying "bad is more fun"? When bad is movies, and cars and dates and womens rights and democracy and toleration and and and - the simplest of all faiths shudders under the attack and lashes back.
#34
I don't get the assumption that destroying the Ka'aba or Shiite shrines will somehow destroy belief in Islam.
Permit me to suggest that destruction of the shrines at Mecca, Medina and Qomwhile not destroying Islammight terminate a sense of infallibility that continues to give Muslims an unreflective impetus that enables commission of the very worst atrocities. Were Islam's shrines to be demolished, it would at least give pause to many Muslims whereby they might give more consideration to the repercussions of their acts. I cannot say that this was 3dc's meaning but it certainly stands to reason that iffor onceIslam was finally made to pay the piper for its incessant predations, it might begin to think twice about the worth of jihad.
#35
It is almost as if that question makes you uncomfortable and you'd like to see its author shifted somewhere else so the question is not in your face.
The problem is that this, along with everything else he posts is repeated ad infinitum.
Who is he trying to convince? You and the rest of the KinderKrieger Korps. RB regulars? Newbies? The stray Kos Kid? Those of us who dealt with terrorism, war and islamists and in the past and continue to do so in some form?
This all reminds me of the crowd in the old Westerns who convince themselves (or get convinced) to to lynch the guy in the jail.
Maybe it'll have to happen. Likely it will. Problem is, Zenster, you, and the rest of the claque won't anything except pat yourselves on the back when the shit hits the fan. You won't be pushing the button, you won't be doing the fighting, you won't be the ones ordering your troops in, and you won't be the ones dealing with the after-effects.
#36
3ds, I concur. We have to find a way. The best possible scenario would be that we'll manage to do it without even harming hair on the head of a single adherent of Islam. But that is unlikely. If you studied how difficult it is to pull someone from a cult...
#37
Don't forget, by the lights of Islam, we attacked first just by being a different option visible in a society that doesn't offer change as an option.
#38
You won't be pushing the button, you won't be doing the fighting, you won't be the ones ordering your troops in, and you won't be the ones dealing with the after-effects.
So, I don't wear an uniform, so I have no right to have an opinion and thus I am a chickenhawk when I do express it, right?
What the fuck do you know about me, Zen, or others? Nothing.
Even our particpation here in RB and other blogs is a part of the whole stratagem. But many of us are involved in more ways, and they do not need to be nesessarily strictly military.
And, as for dealing with after-effects, yes, we all will be dealing with them. Don't forget that may of us have children and granchildren.
And that is the main reason we see the need to deal with the whole thing sooner rather than later. So we are shouldering it, not shifting the responsibility to our descendants.
#39
Problem is, Zenster, you, and the rest of the claque won't [do] anything
I respectfully disagree, Pappy. At every opportunityusually about once a dayI attempt to engage another person and oblige them to fully consider the level of threat we in the West face. Some violently resist the concept. Others are inescapably drawn to conclusions they might not otherwise have reached.
I do my best to change one mind at a time. This "ad infinitum" bullshit is just that. If anyone cared to trace my postings at this site, they would see that there has been a gradual but dramatic change in my overall worldview.
So, Pappy, are there any redeeming features to Islam?
#40
It goes to the problem of the EU and everything.. If a alien came and looked at earth trying to identify core beliefs - he would assume that, by in large, the people of the US believe in eternal change.
To all other societies on earth a belief in eternal change is the scariest of all propositions. We are despised by the elites in the EU for it, we art the Great Satan to Islam for it and.... How do you know and hold your place in the world when change is the religion? Upstarts!
#41
I've got to head out for a walk, so I just wanted to echo what others here have already mentioned.
Right or wrong, Tancredo deserves praise in how he has brought to the fore Islam's impending butcher's bill. There is no way in hell that this crap can go on for too much longer without some serious repercussions being brought to bear. Even ifand I hope it's not the casethat nuclear strikes are required, Islam has been so purblind to the downstream consequences of its incessant atrocities that it's about time that someone finally floated this balloon.
Quite clearly, no one in Washington DC has the testicular or ovarian fortitude to broach the topic, so my hat's off to Tancredo for doing the heavy lifting in the midst of so many jellyfish.
Islam did that. In the Middle East and Asia, there were many societies that worshiped idols, a practice that was thousands of years old. But Muslims wiped that religion off the face of the earth.
And when the Mohammedan caliph came with his sword in hand, they destroyed the idol temples, the churches of all Africa, of all Palestine, of all Asia Minor and Turkey and of Istanbul, and thrust themselves clear to the Philippine Islands on the east. It was Idolatry against which the Mohammedan religion rose as a fierce and terrible antagonist.
Islam will continue, even in this day and age to grow. When they reach their zenith in all of history, they will march against Israel 200 million strong. That will be the "Crucial Hour".
THAT will be the end of Islam.
Zechariah 14:14
"their flesh shall melt while they stand on their feet, and their eyes melt in their sockets, and their tongues melt in their mouths."
#43
Therefore Tancredo is right about one thing. Pushed to the brink of destruction by Islamists, a nation (Israel, not America) will unleash their nuclear arsenal on an army so large that they will have no other recourse in order to survive.
#44
So, I don't wear an uniform, so I have no right to have an opinion and thus I am a chickenhawk when I do express it, right?
Opinion is one thing. Advocating something for which you will have no hand in, or no responsibility for, is another.
What the fuck do you know about me, Zen, or others? Nothing.
On a personal basis? No. On this blog? A lot. And it doesn't make a positive impression.
Even our particpation here in RB and other blogs is a part of the whole stratagem. But many of us are involved in more ways, and they do not need to be nesessarily strictly military.
That type of 'participation' at Rantburg is like decrying poverty while at a $5000 a plate charity dinner. I'd rather hear what is being done rather than how things should be done.
And, as for dealing with after-effects, yes, we all will be dealing with them. Don't forget that may of us have children and granchildren.
No doubt you do. And I still doubt that you have fully thought it through.
And that is the main reason we see the need to deal with the whole thing sooner rather than later. So we are shouldering it, not shifting the responsibility to our descendants.
#46
2x4: We have to find a way [to destroy Islam]. The best possible scenario would be that we'll manage to do it without even harming hair on the head of a single adherent of Islam. But that is unlikely. If you studied how difficult it is to pull someone from a cult...
#47
I'd rather hear what is being done rather than how things should be done.
I gave you an answer as to what is "being done" by myself, at least. I refuse to be an armchair quarterback general. I've taken a major hit with my so-called liberal "friends" over how I refuse to keep quite at their parties as they bash Bush and trash the GWoT. What about you, Pappy?
#49
And, dammit, contrary to all appearances, I'm not trying to purposely antagonize all of Rantburg's moderators. I've expressed my appreciation often enough. I just want someone to take a solid stand on what the hell it is that makes Islam so effing valuable to our beleaugered world.
#50
I wish this thread could be flipped over until tomorrow just to keep the comments going.
lotp is right: destroying muslim holy places will not destroy Islam. WE might not think it's a religion, but THEY do. Look at the plight of the early Christians: they had no churches to speak of, only the presence of one another. A revealed religion driven underground is even more dangerous than if it's acknowledged and co-opted.
As to nukes, I'm with Steve. I'm better than that. I'm not going to commit genocide, or unleash nukes, or crush other people's holy places, just because I fear what they could do. We have other tools. I don't want us to be remembered in the same thought with Genghis Khan and the Nazis.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
08/05/2007 23:56 Comments ||
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#51
I'll close with how this same essential question was posed by .com in his "Code Comanche Moral Authority" post about what sort of redeeming features Islam indeed has.
Far as I can tell, Islam doesn't. I'd love to be proven wrong. Certain sorts of individuals have no redeeming features. Serial killers, serial pedophiles, serial rapists ... need I go on? How is Islam any different from the preceding examples? Much of their doctrine promulgates the EXACT same behavior. Why should they be exempt from modern society's approbation?
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Afghan president Hamid Karzai is preparing for a two-day meeting with President Bush at Camp David starting on Sunday while his government is facing pressures over how to secure the release of the 21 surviving South Korean hostages, combat the Taliban insurgency and rein in Afghanistans opium poppy trade, reports Pamela Constable for the Washington Post.
GHAZNI, Afghanistan - An Afghan negotiator on Saturday again ruled out a prisoner exchange to free 21 South Koreans held by the Taleban, saying it was against the policy of Afghanistan and the United States.
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korean leader Kim Jong Il has visited military bases for four straight days, an unusual frequency that has prompted speculation he may be about to make a decision regarding the country's disputed nuclear program.
Barack Obama was trying to give a boost to his poll ratings when he declared on Wednesday that he was prepared to unilaterally send US troops into Pakistan to get terrorists, states Pramit Pal Chaudhuri of the Hindustan Times. 
WASHINGTON (AP) - The House on Saturday delayed action on a Senate-passed bill to expand the government's abilities to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States. Lawmakers in both parties said they expected the measure to pass late Saturday or early Sunday.
Wafaqal Madaris Chief Administrator Qari Hanif Julandhri told a press conference on Saturday that a constitutional application had been filed in the Supreme Court (SC) against the extra-judicial killings in the Lal Masjid operation. The petition was filed against President Pervez Musharraf, Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao, the Rawalpindi corps commander, chief commissioner, inspector general and deputy commissioner. It requested the SC to order registration of a first information report (FIR) against them. The SC will hear the case on August 9. Julandhri said that according to the constitutional application, a large number of men, women and children were killed in the operation, which was extra-judicial murder, and that the government had no right to kill, according to the Constitution. The application stated that Jamia Hafsa was demolished to remove evidence of murder of the people in there. The petitioner requested the court to issue orders to safeguard the debris of Jamia Hafza till the completion of an investigation. The petition also requested that Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa students who had surrendered be released immediately, and asked the court to take action against the alleged desecration of the Holy Quran.
Tribal elder Malik Mamoor Khan told Daily Times after meeting NWFP Governor Ali Jan Orakzai on Saturday that no elders would participate in the Pak-Afghan jirga starting from August 9 in Kabul if security forces were not withdrawn from all checkposts in North Waziristan.
WASHINGTON: The US has said that India retains the sovereign right to explode a nuclear device but it hopes such a situation will not arise, Nicholas Burns, US undersecretary of state, was quoted as saying. 
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki told ABC News he does not want to set any timetable for a U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, a major shift in his position. "Anything specific I can not give, neither us nor the U.S. government can set up a timetable," Maliki said.
Iraq's power grid is on the brink of collapse because of insurgent sabotage, rising demand, fuel shortages and provinces that are unplugging local power stations from the national grid, officials said Saturday.
Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said on Friday the United States was trying to intimidate Lebanese people by taking punitive financial action against opponents of the Western-backed Beirut government. US President George W. Bush on Thursday ordered a freeze on the US assets of anyone Washington deems to be undermining Prime Minister Fouad Sinioras government. Those targeted were not identified. Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran and Syria, is at the heart of a Lebanese opposition which has been demanding veto power in the cabinet. The governing coalition has accused Hezbollah and its allies of wanting to mount a coup that would open the door to a return of Syrian control of Lebanon. Nasrallah said Bush was doing all he could to protect the governing coalition. Sinioras government had become a part of US national security, he said. Bush comes out and says: You Lebanese, whoever shakes the Siniora government, I will act against legally, financially and economically, Nasrallah said in a televised address to supporters in the Bekaa Valley town of Baalbek. Why this intimidation of Lebanese? he asked. The speech was also televised on Hezbollahs al-Manar station. Bush considers the Siniora government part of American national security and part of American policy. Oh Lebanese, we are demanding a government which (represents) Lebanese national security and not American national security. Bushs executive order targets anyone considered to be fuelling violence in Lebanon or contributing to what it called Syrian interference in the country.
ALGIERS - Irans outspoken President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called on Israel to go find somewhere else for its state and leave its territory for the creation of a Palestinian state, according to an interview published on Saturday. Our support (for the Palestinian people) is unconditional. As for the Israelis, let them go find somewhere else, Ahmadinejad told several Algerian newspapers ahead of an visit to Algiers that starts Monday.
