Officials at JP Morgan Chase have apologized and promised to improve their screening policies, after a credit card solicitation letter sent to a 54-year-old naturalized American citizen came addressed to "Palestinian Bomber."
The form letter for a Visa Platinum card arrived earlier this month at the home of Sami Habbas, a grocery store manager from Corona, Calif. The words "Palestinian Bomber" appear above his address and the salutation reads, "Dear Palestinian Bomber." The document included the signature of Carter Franke, chief marketing officer for Chase Card Services.
"Dear Mr. Al Kaboomi, ..."
Habbas is a naturalized U.S. citizen of Palestinian heritage. He told ABC News he is "extremely upset" at receiving the letter, pointing out that he has lived in the United States for 51 years and also served in the U.S. Army, receiving an honorable discharge in 1969.
"It's upsetting, derogatory and slanderous," Habbas told ABC News. "I have no idea how this sort of thing happened."
Habbas was even more shocked when, on several occasions, he said he called an 800-number for JP Morgan Chase and spoke to operators in an effort to complain. Each time, he says the operators called up his information on a computer but apparently didn't catch on. According to Habbas, "The operators always said, 'Yes, Mr. Palestinian Bomber, how can we help you?' "
After receiving the letter and his experiences with the operators, Habbas contacted the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., a Muslim civil liberties group. CAIR denounced the Chase letter as "racist" and asked JP Morgan Chase to launch an investigation, conduct sensitivity training and issue a formal apology to Habbas. In a statement, Chase vice president Kelly Presta blamed the incident on information in a list purchased from a third-party vendor. The company said it was taking steps to improve the screening procedures and offered "sincere apologies" to anyone offended by the letter.
"Although no Chase employee was involved in creating this information, we are embarrassed by this incident and regret that our automatic screening procedures did not catch this erroneous information," said Presta, executive vice president of Chase Card Services. It is unclear if the person responsible for the letter knew Habbas was of Palestinian descent or simply guessed. A CAIR official said Habbas is a fairly common Arab name.
The incident comes on the heels of last week's announcement by Comcast that two customer service representatives in Chicago were fired after they changed a woman's name to "Bitch Dog" on her bill. She had repeatedly complained about bad service.
#1
After receiving the letter and his experiences with the operators, Habbas contacted the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C.,..
Any sympathy I might have had for this guy evaporated right then and there.
#5
Actually, this is the kind of thing CAIR should be helping with -- "Palestinian Bomber" is totally unacceptable. And after all, Mr. Habbas probably felt he couldn't ask the Anti-Defamation League to help. ;-)
One month on, and even with the suspected perpetrators in custody awaiting trial, mystery shrouds the failed attempt to repeat the brutal July 7 bombings in London.
Militants, inspired if not directed by Osama bin Ladenâs Al Qaeda network, were reputedly behind both the July 7 and July 21 attacks on three Underground subway lines and a double-decker bus.
In the first case, 56 people died, including four apparent suicide bombers - three of them born in Britain, the fourth a Jamaican-born immigrant.
No one died in the second attempt, allegedly carried out mainly by immigrants from East Africa, but it shook Londoners to a greater degree - and led the next day to the police shooting of an innocent Brazilian worker.
With its biggest-ever criminal investigation still very much underway, the Metropolitan Police has yet to establish a firm link between the two groups - although it strongly suspects there is one.
For that reason, its commissioner Sir Ian Blair said this week, there is every reason to fear that a third cell, or more, are out there, waiting to pounce.
âIntuitively, there are such similarities between the methodology and the equipment that we must think there is a possibility of others,â he told the Evening Standard.
Detectives, drawing on their experience with Irish Republican Army (IRA) bombing campaigns in the 1980s and 1990s, focused intensely on the second incident, sensing it would turn out to be a gold mine of evidence.
Three men - Yasin Hassan Omar, 24, Ramzi Mohamed, 23, and Muktar Said Ibrahim, 27 - have been charged with attempted murder, conspiracy and possession of explosives at the Warren Street and Oval subway stations and the Number 26 bus.
Osman Hussain, also known as Hamdi Issac, 27, was arrested in Rome on July 29 on suspicion of trying to carry out an attack at Shepherdâs Bush station. His extradition back to Britain is pending.
A fifth man, Manfo Kwaku Asiedu, 32, is also being held on suspicion of conspiracy to murder after a discarded rucksack was found in a west London park two days after July 21.
Neither the first nor the second group left videos or other messages claiming responsiblity or setting out motives, but Al Qaedaâs second in command Ayman al-Zawahiri has condoned their actions.
Jeremy Binnie, an analyst with Janeâs Terrorism and Insurgency Centre in London, said it was âentirely possible that the second group might have been independently planning another kind of attack and reconfigured their planâ in order to duplicate the first group.
The July 7 group probably acquired its bomb-making skills from Pakistan, then decided what its targets would be upon their return to Britain, Binnie said this week.
On the other hand, the July 21 cell had âvery different bomb technology from the first group, and their bombs didnât go off,â raising the prospect that they had no âoutside assistanceâ and tried to assemble their bombs themselves.
Binnie also believed that Al Qaeda was likely an inspiration to the London bombers, and not the commander of operations.
âAs Al Qaeda becomes less of an organisation, it becomes more of an ideology in itself... To be Al Qaeda, all you have to do is go out and do something. You donât actually have to have any contact with bin Laden,â he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 01:35 ||
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Police officers from the team involved in the fatal shooting of Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes did not believe he posed 'an immediate threat'. Senior sources in the Metropolitan Police have told The Observer that members of the surveillance team who followed de Menezes into Stockwell underground station in London felt that he was not about to detonate a bomb, was not armed and was not acting suspiciously. It was only when they were joined by armed officers that his threat was deemed so great that he was shot seven times.
Sources said that the surveillance officers wanted to detain de Menezes, but were told to hand over the operation to the firearms team.
The two teams have fallen out over the circumstances surrounding the incident, raising fresh questions about how the operation was handled. A police source said: 'There is no way those three guys would have been on the train carriage with him [de Menezes] if they believed he was carrying a bomb. Nothing he did gave the surveillance team the impression that he was carrying a device.'
Last night, Metropolitan Police chief Sir Ian Blair admitted he was told that shooting created 'a difficulty'.
You don't say.
In an interview with the News of the World, Blair said that an officer came to him the day after the shooting and said the equivalent of 'Houston, we have a problem'. 'He didn't use those words but he said "We have some difficulty here, there is a lack of connection". 'I thought "That's dreadful, what are we going to do about that?".'
The Observer can also reveal that the de Menezes family was offered £15,000 after the shooting. The ex gratia payment, which does not affect legal action by the family or compensation, is a fraction of the $1 million (£560,000) reported to have been offered the family. Police yesterday denied they had made the offer, which the family has described as 'offensive'.
Yup, insult to injury.
Members of the firearms unit are said to be furious that de Menezes was not properly identified when he left his flat, the first problem in the chain of events that led to the Brazilian's death.
Specialist officers with the firearms team active that day had received training in how to deal with suicide bombers. A key element was advice that a potential bomber will detonate at the first inkling he has been identified. They are trained to react at the first sign of any action. The Observer now understands that seconds before the firearms team entered the tube train carriage, a member of the surveillance squad using the codename Hotel 3 moved to the doorway and shouted: 'He's in here.' De Menezes, in all likelihood alarmed by the activity, stood and moved towards the doorway. He was grabbed and pushed back to his seat. The first shots were then fired while Hotel 3 was holding him.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is to investigate if the firearms officers, with only seconds to decide whether to shoot, mistakenly interpreted de Menezes's movement as an aggressive act.
With what's coming out now, sounds like they're screwed.
For the firearms officers involved in the death to avoid any legal action, they will have to state that they believed their lives and those of the passengers were in immediate danger. Such a view is unlikely to be supported by members of the surveillance unit.
For reasons as yet unclear, members of the firearms team have yet to submit their own account of the events to the IPCC. The two members of the team believed to have fired the fatal shots are known to have gone on holiday immediately after the shooting. In one case, the holiday had been pre-booked, in the other the leave was authorised by Blair, who yesterday received the backing of the Home Secretary, Charles Clarke: 'I am very happy with the conduct, not only of Sir Ian Blair, but the whole Metropolitan Police in relation to this inquiry.'
Meanwhile, questions have been raised about the accuracy of the police intelligence that led to the raid on the block of flats occupied by de Menezes. It was initially suggested that the flat was connected to the man known as Hussein Osman, who was arrested in Italy. On the Saturday after the shooting, officers raided the flat in a high-profile operation watched by the world's media. As a result, a man, identified only as 'C', was arrested 'on suspicion of the commission, instigation or preparation of acts of terrorism'. But he was released on 30 July with no charge, raising the possibility that the flats had no connection with the bombings.
The parents of de Menezes said they have rejected all financial offers made by the police. 'I feel hurt and offended,' Jean's mother, Maria Otoni de Menezes, told The Observer this weekend. 'I didn't think it was right to talk about money so soon after my son's death.' One document seen by The Observer and handed to the family on 1 August by the Met's assistant deputy commissioner, John Yates, sets out a final settlement, on top of an agreement to pay repatriation and legal fees. 'The MPS offers £15,000 by way of compensation to you for the death of Jean Charles,' says the document, dated 27 July. 'This ... extra gratia paymen ... means it is paid without any consideration of legal liability or responsibility.'
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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Article: A police source said: 'There is no way those three guys would have been on the train carriage with him [de Menezes] if they believed he was carrying a bomb. Nothing he did gave the surveillance team the impression that he was carrying a device.'
Sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. Do we really know this, or is this carping by those of the British police who don't believe in the idea of armed police (most British cops just carry nightsticks)?
#2
One report I read by the one of the undercover spotters said Menezes saw the cops, and seemed to be cooperating. The undercover spotter put his arms aruond Menezes to keep his arms pinned and put the guy back in the seat of the subway when someone else shot him.
It sounds like two groups with different ideas of the threat level.
#3
My point being the observer who got close enough to take Menezes down could have taken him off the train but didn't. A sign I believe that he didnt' think the guy had a bomb after initially pinning his arms.
#4
In any case a message has been sent to the bad guys, "watch your ass"
Posted by: bk ||
08/23/2005 10:22 Comments ||
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It's also a "message to the Good guys--watch your ass!" with that singularly British brand of "panic or placate." That victim picked the wrong country for justice or fair play. Where was the BBC?
The Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland has called on Muslim extremists to leave the country. The Reverend David Lacy said radical Islamists were "hypocrites" who treated their neighbours as "enemies". He said Muslims who speak out against the UK and have been accused of encouraging attacks on coalition soldiers in Iraq should leave. The comments have divided Kirk members but have received some support from within the Muslim community.
Rev Lacy hit out at extremists who preach a message of terrorism. He said: "If they really hate the British enough to want us dead and bombed then it is hypocritical of them to stay here, it seems common sense for them to get out. "We want to be a multicultural family, but I think anyone, from any side or none, who says he or she wants a lot of British people dead is being hypocritical by staying here." The moderator also warned that civil liberties campaigners risked stressing rights while underplaying the need for individual responsibility.
#2
Why is it so damned difficult for some people to accept the truth? How can you even start to address a problem successfully if you won't even admit there is a problem? Answer: you can't. There's been a long and concerted effort to keep the lid on racial and ethnic animosity directed toward anyone but whites in the UK, and it's had the same effect as screwing down the safety valve on a pressure cooker while turning up the heat. I suspect that if another serious attack happens in Britain, there will be a lot of Muslims who end up paying the price for their murderous brethren. If I was Muslim in Britain today, I'd have bags packed for a quick getaway if necessary and be making long-term plans to leave the country permanently.
Posted by: mac ||
08/23/2005 5:37 Comments ||
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Well the reactions to his statement show that many of the Scotch socialists (TRANZIS) have a low survival quotient. I really am starting to understand most of the gene pool that naturally gets it in the UK and Europe moved to the US or Australia long ago. This multiculti crap doesn't cut it. Even many immigrants to the UK say that when surveyed. Assimilate or return to your place of origin.
#4
The Minister should simply state that the end game of the Muslim extremists is to ban booze in Scotland. It will be very hard for even Tranzi's to justify that kind of thing after that.
Yeah you can kill the infidels and make the womin'folk wear bags on their heads but if you come after me Scotch I'll shove me claymore up your arse.
BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) - A U.S. judge has taken out ads in Colombian newspapers and magazines ordering the country's main rebel group to appear in his Washington courtroom to face charges of kidnapping three Americans in 2003.
Attaboy, judge, that oughta do it.
The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, are accused in the summons, first published Sunday in a half-dozen Colombian publications, of "taking hostages in violation of U.S. laws." The Americans - Tom Howes, Marc Gonsalves and Keith Stansell - were captured by the FARC on Feb. 13, 2003, after their small plane crashed in a rebel stronghold in southern Colombia while on an anti-drug mission. The FARC has acknowledged they are holding the men.
The announcement was placed in Spanish by U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan and is slated to be repeated once a week through September. Sheldon Snook, Hogan's executive assistant, said judges are required by law to send out a summons order and said the judge chose to issue this one in the Colombian press because "We don't have (the FARC's) address on file."
Besides accusing the FARC as a whole in the kidnappings, the jailed FARC leader Ricardo Palmera has also been named in the case. Palmera, who goes by the alias Simon Trinidad, was extradited to the United States late last year on a May 2004 U.S. indictment that charged him with "conspiring to kidnap" the three Americans.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/23/2005 00:58 ||
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SOunds like a judge frustrated with not being able to deal some justice to these Colombian banditos. Probably his last resort.
Hey judge, how about some ads in a Caracas daily or two? Would be more than anything else we see being done. Alo Presidente!
Posted by: Mac Suirtain ||
08/23/2005 1:13 Comments ||
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Kind of a funny way to plug a loophole if any of the FARC members are seized in the night arrested and deported. I can just see a moonbat lawyer using the "they didn't get a summons" bullshit. If by some miracle it does work, this might just be used in the future for futher snatch and grab law enforcement operations.
Terrorist groups are making attempts to acquire weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear and biological weapons, Federal Security Service director Nikolai Patrushev told colleagues from other former Soviet republics on Friday.
"The terrorists are striving to obtain access to biological, nuclear and chemical weapons. We record this, and we have such information," Patrushev said at a meeting with his counterparts from other countries in the Commonwealth of Independent States.
"Our mission is to deny them such access," Patrushev said at the meeting in Aktau, Kazakhstan, which followed a counterterrorism exercise in which CIS forces simulated the seizure of an oil tanker by a terrorist group in the Caspian Sea.
Patrushev did not give any details about who had tried to acquire WMD or when and where the attempts had taken place. Russia and the other 11 countries of the CIS were supposed to have destroyed their biological weapons long ago in accordance with international conventions.
The United States and several other countries have expressed worries that terrorists could acquire nuclear, biological or chemical weapons materials in Russia and other former Soviet republics.
Patrushev said the Federal Security Service, or FSB, was evaluating security and accountability in the defense industry and other enterprises that are or have been involved in the development and production of WMD to ensure that they are impenetrable to terrorist groups.
"We are really checking these enterprises and, as of today, we are taking measures to eliminate those flaws that exist," he said, Interfax reported.
He said the FSB was focusing on preventive measures.
"At the moment, we evaluate the situation this way: Terrorists will not get the weapons they're striving for," he said. "Nonetheless, in light of the aim of terrorists to get access to weapons of mass destruction, we must perfect this work."
Earlier this summer, the chief of the Defense Ministry's nuclear safety and security department said there was a constant stream of intelligence from the FSB indicating that terrorist groups were developing plans to target the military's nuclear arsenals. "We have special information continuously coming from the Federal Security Service on terrorist groups' plans against our facilities," Igor Valynkin, head of the ministry's 12th Main Directorate, said in June.
Patrushev's comments came after Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev threatened to stage new terrorist attacks and hinted that he might go beyond conventional attacks. In an interview broadcast by the U.S. television network ABC on July 28, Basayev vowed to "do everything possible" to end the second Chechen war. Basayev had ordered radioactive materials planted in Moscow and threatened to detonate them to end the first Chechen war.
"I am trying not to cross the line. And so far, I have not crossed it," Basayev said in the interview, which was taped in late June. Basayev has claimed responsibility for the Beslan school hostage-taking, which killed more than 330 people, and scores of other terrorist attacks.
During the first and second wars, Chechen rebels sought to acquire radioactive and biological materials, plotted to hijack a nuclear submarine and cased military nuclear installations.
While initially skeptical of the threat of WMD terrorism, Russian authorities are increasingly acknowledging the imminence of the menace and are working to safeguard nuclear, chemical and biological substances at military and civil installations with financial and technical assistance from the West.
One sign of this change in attitude is that the military and the FSB are holding regular exercises in repelling possible terrorist attacks on nuclear installations. The next CIS counterterrorism exercise will focus on repelling an attack on a nuclear power plant and will take place in Armenia in 2006, Patrushev said.
Patrushev also said the FSB had helped investigate violence in the eastern Uzbek city of Andijan earlier this year.
He said the FSB had offered to assist in the London subway and bus bombings but that the offer had been declined.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 01:56 ||
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Terrorist groups are making attempts to acquire weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear and biological weapons,
Brilliant, Nikolai, Brilliant! How much grant money did you spend to need to come to that conclusion and where can I sign up? Perhaps next you will discover that Muslim extremists will go to extremes!
#2
LOL! Maybe their next press relese will be that vodka consumption is a problem in Russia, but that Vodka production is at a all time high and very profitable. Duh!
Russian president Vladimir Putin has not ruled a possibility to use high precision weapons against terrorists.
Speaking to journalists on Wednesday, a day after Russia had tested new cruise missiles, Putin said he did not rule out that those weapons could be used for the fight against terrorism, RIA-Novosti news agency reported.
Putin said he was satisfied with the test launches of the new missiles. âWe had no such arms before, and now it appears,â he said. On Tuesday, Russian leader attended the test launches of four new cruise missiles being onboard a Tu-160 strategic bomber. âPrevious launches and launches during (the last) trainings have shown a high combat readiness,â the Russian president said.
Putin added the new missiles had no nuclear warhead.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov confirmed that the new missiles were the weapons that could be used against terrorists. The Tuesday launches have finished the missile tests started in 2004, the minister added.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 01:55 ||
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Seem to remember Hill-Billy trying something like this. Hope Puttie's aim is better.
MUSLIM schools in Australia have been put on notice they will have to denounce terrorism as part of a wider effort to stamp out home-grown extremism. Muslim communities will also be encouraged to train clerics locally, rather than seek them from overseas, to reinforce Australian values of tolerance and harmony within Islamic communities. The measures were announced today after a meeting between Muslim leaders and Prime Minister John Howard at Parliament House in Canberra.
The Muslim leaders unanimously rejected terrorism and distanced themselves from radical clerics who have recently praised terror mastermind Osama bin Laden. Mr Howard said the Government would explore with the Muslim community the education and sourcing of clerics (imams). "We do believe that more can be done to bring an Australia's perspective to that," Mr Howard said.
The summit also discussed how to promote tolerance and prevent extremism in Australia's 29 Islamic schools, while allowing the schools to manage their own affairs. "We have sought as part of the dialogue advice from the Islamic community as to ways in which we can be totally satisfied that the appropriate denunciations and repudiations of terrorism occur," Mr Howard said.
More than 12,800 students attend Islamic schools, which receive about $100 million annually in commonwealth and state funding. Principal of the Islamic School of Brisbane, Dr Mubarak Noor, said he would support any moves to teach tolerance. "We teach peace, harmony and coexistence and mutual respect of every faith," Dr Noor said. The school often hosted visits by Christian and government school students, and opened its doors to the community to improve understanding, he said. The 380-student school also vetted books to ensure objectionable material did not appear in its library, Dr Noor said.
President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr Ameer Ali, said the Muslim community had an unreserved commitment to the safety of all Australians, and a harmonious society for all. "There is no place for hatred, there is no place for terrorism, there is no place for violence in this country," he said. He described comments by radical clerics in support of bin Laden as stupid. "His activities are not welcome, there's no reservation in that, he is not an accepted Muslim leader," Dr Ali said.
The Government has also agreed to give Muslims a say on education, welfare, health and justice policies through a new informal body chaired by Multicultural Affairs Minister John Cobb. Mr Cobb, who only took up a ministry position last month, is expected to hold meetings with Muslim community representatives in Melbourne and Adelaide next week. The summit agreed a statement of principles to guide the way the government and community dealt with the threat of terrorism. "There is a problem, there is a concern, that a small section of the Islamic community of this country could be the source of terrorism," Mr Howard said.
The statement, unanimously backed by all those at the meeting, reinforced that "overriding loyalty to Australia and a commitment to its traditions, values and institutions is the common bond that unites us all". Mr Howard said the issue of commonwealth vilification laws had been raised, but he had reservations about such legislation.
Posted by: Oztralian [AKA] God Save The World ||
08/23/2005 04:41 ||
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Terrorism is generally defined as violence against innocent civilians. However, radical muslims -- and not just the Islamists/Islamofascists -- refine that to say that only Muslims can be truly innocent; all others are active agents for the other side by reason of their non-Muslim status.
Therefore, in my opinion, a simple statement against terrorism is not nearly enough, especially coupled with the taqiyya concept (that it's required to lie to outsiders to protect the persons and plans of the Muslim community).
ISLAMIC leaders at today's terrorism summit say Australia's military presence in Iraq is a prime cause of the alienation of the nation's Muslims, with some seeing it as "betrayal".
As Islamic leaders gathered to meet Prime Minister John Howard for a summit today in Canberra to discuss the threat of "home-grown" terrorists, the presence of Australian troops in Iraq was raised by some as a key factor in the potential alienation of young Muslims.
Muslim Women's National Network president Aziza Abdel Halim said many young people were attracted to radical preaching because of Western involvement in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. "They see that as a sort of betrayal, that Australia has committed itself to fighting against Muslims in Afghanistan (and) in Iraq," Ms Halim said.
In a statement from the Islamic Council of New South Wales, representing 40 different groups, acting president Ali Roude says it is natural for Australian Muslims to feel sympathy for fellow Muslims elsewhere in the world and to desire justice for those living under oppression. "We insist that the current debate concerning terrorism should be correctly discussed within its global context," the statement, read on ABC radio, says.
"We are concerned that the Australian people are unaware of the concerns within the Muslim community regarding Australia's ongoing commitment to military operations within key Muslim communities within Iraq and Afghanistan.
"And if it wasn't Iraq and Afghanistan, it'd be somewhere else," he added.
"Our concern is that Australia's commitment is the primary source of the resentment and frustration that is alienating the Muslim community from other communities."
Today's summit comes in the wake of the deadly London terrorist attacks last month, which were perpetrated by British-born Muslims who became involved with terrorist networks in Britain. Mr Howard has been criticised for leaving extremist Islamic leaders out of the summit, but has said he does not want to provide a platform for extremists.
Another conference delegate, Yasmin Khan, founder of the Queensland Islamic welfare group I-CARE, said Australian involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan was only partly responsible for Muslim resentment. "I don't know that you could necessarily say, 'Well, let's pull our troops out of Iraq and everything is going to be fine tomorrow,'" she told ABC radio. "That's part of it and I don't necessarily think that that's just exclusive to Muslims either. There are plenty of white mainstream Australians that are saying pull our troops out."
And plenty more saying that the troops should stay til the job is done.
Iraqi Islamic Council of Australia president Mohammed Taha Alsalami said he believed Australian troops should stay the distance in Iraq. "I think the troops should stay there," he said. "(Pulling troops out) is not the opinion of the Iraqi people, not the opinion of the Iraqi Australians here, because that would give the green light to the Taliban-like bodies to take control."
That was a little ... unexpected.
Posted by: Oztralian [AKA] God Save The World ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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Iraqi Islamic Council of Australia president Mohammed Taha Alsalami said he believed Australian troops should stay the distance in Iraq. "I think the troops should stay there," he said. "(Pulling troops out) is not the opinion of the Iraqi people, not the opinion of the Iraqi Australians here, because that would give the green light to the Taliban-like bodies to take control."
#3
ISLAMIC leaders at today's terrorism summit say Australia's military presence in Iraq is a prime cause of the alienation of the nation's Muslims, with some seeing it as "betrayal".
Wait a minute.....I thought it was always "The Occupation"&trade (as in Paleo Land) that was the big reason for Muslim "alienation"...
...Soup kitchens and bread lines seem out of place in this affluent country long known for its generous welfare system, administered until recently by generations of socialist-leaning governments.
But the growing dependency on private charity by thousands of people reflects how Holland â long admired for its fast-paced growth, high employment and prosperity â is increasingly falling on hard times. After years of strong growth, the economy has ground to a near standstill and since April 2004, the number of people receiving free food packages at the Dutch Food Bank has jumped from 600 per week to nearly 5,000. Thousands more go without...
...The most recent preliminary figures from the government's Bureau for Social and Cultural Planning indicate that at least 11% of the Dutch population, or between 700,000 and 800,000 households, lived in poverty in 2004...
...Immigrant families...account for 33% of the country's poor although they make up less than a fifth of the population, according to SCP figures... So, let's see, if they didn't have to support the large unemployed immigrant community, their poverty level would be 8.27%; and if they didn't have immigrants at all, they would have full employment and actually *need* 10% more workers from the rest of Europe. By george, I think Europe could solve its perpetual 10% unemployment rate overnight.
That assumes the locals would pick up the slack ...
#1
...Soup kitchens and bread lines seem out of place in this affluent country long known for its generous welfare system, administered until recently by generations of socialist-leaning governments.
Actually, no. Soup kitchens and "socialist-leaning governments" don't seem incongruous.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/23/2005 7:37 Comments ||
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That assumes the locals would pick up the slack ...
Yep. Western Europeans have a similar opinion of manual labour to the Saudis.
#4
... and I ain't talkin 'bout foolz an their money being parted soon-like either. Illegal immigrants? They are only illegal if laws are passed that say they are... and only become a problem when them there laws are not enforced. If the laws are not enforced then perhaps it was the ones that cobbled together them not-enforced laws that are just as big of the problem. Will + capability = action
Page 19 at the link, reprinted in its entirety, with snarky comments.
If youâre a baby boomer, you probably remember the classic â60s sitcom âCar 54 Where Are You?â The lyrics to the theme song were: âThereâs a holdup in the Bronx. Brooklynâs broken out in fights. Thereâs a traffic jam in Harlem thatâs backed up to Jackson Heights. A scout troop is short a child. Khrushchev is due at Idlewild. Car 54 where are you?â
The beleaguered Bush administration should adopt âCar 54â as its theme song. The Middle East has broken out in fights and the Bush administration is missing an economic policy to deal with sluggish economic growth, stagnant wages and soaring gas and health care costs. What is this, October, 2004?
Recent national surveys show that President Bushâs job rating is lower than either Bill Clintonâs or Ronald Reaganâs at comparable points in their second terms. And one of them wound up respectable and one didn't. The reasons: guns and butter. The president receives bad grades for handling the war in Iraq and poor marks for dealing with the economy. This is the same message as last fall.
First, take Iraq. Please. Americans have soured on the war and now believe that the United States was wrong to invade Iraq in the first place. Americans feel that Bush misled them on the rationale for the war, which was presence of weapons of mass destruction. Bush lied, kids died. Yeah, heard it before. The loss of credibility for the president is a crucial blow because Americans elected Bush oh, it IS 2005! because they believed he was honest enough to tell it like it is. So, where does that leave JFKerry? Voters donât feel that way any more that's debatable, but vague enough to be accepted by many and there is likely to be further erosion in the presidentâs standing.
Events over the next few months will try the support that still exists for the war. Oh, thereâs still some left? If and when Iraq ever Iâm predicting not ever, as in, âthe sun will go cold, firstâ gets a new Constitution, more troops will go into Iraq yeah, we'll probably have to start up the draft rumors again to safeguard the elections and install the new government. Fighting will intensify as the public tolerance for American casualties decreases. If my punditry is successful, anyway, casualties will go up, and tolerance will go down The strong performance of Iraq war veteran, war critic and Democratic congressional candidate Paul Hackett in the special election in Ohio and the current Governors scandal about golf games will embolden Democrats and some Republicans to call for an American withdrawal. A few days ago, Sen. Russ Feingold, DWis., became the first potential Democratic presidential candidate to call for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq by the end of 2006. Feingold? A candidate? What happened to Hillary?
And then thereâs the economy. Republican pundits complain the president isnât getting enough credit for the improving the economy. The reason the president isnât getting credit for improving the economy is that it isnât getting any better. All you have to do is to cruise the news for the headlines:
âU.S. Retail Sales Wilted During Julyâ âWall Street Journal, Aug. 5
âEconomy Sputters as Gas Keeps Risingâ â USA Today, Aug. 17
Two headlines to prove the economy isnât getting any better? Never recovered, eh? Unemployment is, what â worse? The housing market â about to crash? Movie sales are down, that must be Bushitlerâs fault. People driving less? No? How could that be? Consumer confidence in the toilet yet?
The USA Today article quoted Wal-Mart CEO F. Lee Scott, who said: âI worry about the effect of higher oil prices.â . WOW! No WONDER heâs a CEO! The impact could âerase improvements in employment and real income for an important part of our customer base,â he added. And gas prices could drop again after Labor Day. The wages of barely middle-class Americans have not kept pace with inflationary price hikes for health care and gasoline. Treasury Secretary John Snow admitted this when he told The Washington Post on Aug. 8 that âone of the things we know is that less educated people have seen their incomes and wages grow more slowly.â
The Treasury secretary suggested that the answer to this problem might be better education. My suggestion is that the administration should abandon its economic program that favors rich GOP donors and corporate executives. Right. Letâs keep the poor people dumb, so they keep believing this tripe, and we can keep them as Victims-Voting-for-Democrats™ for life.
The price of gasoline is where the rubber meets the road at the intersection of domestic and foreign policy. Every time, someone pulls into a gas station and looks at the price of a gallon of gas, the sight triggers anxiety about making ends meet and anger toward a foreign policy that has increased rather
than decreased tensions in the oil-producing Middle East. Riiiiight. Look how good the âEngagementâ strategy is working in Iran. Why if John Kerry had been elected..... And while barely middle class Americans who shop at Wal-Mart are taking a hit, the oil companies are hitting it big. Last year, Exxon-Mobilâs profit was $25.3 billion. God only knows what the oil giantâs profits for 2005 will be. When did God show up on the Democratic radar screen? Oh, yeah â values!
Itâs easy to imagine George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as a latter day Francis Muldoons and Gunther Toodys sitting in their patrol car and sipping coffee while New York City goes to hell in a handbasket. But it is harder to figure out where they will get the gas if they ever get their car in gear. I think the last worthwhile piece this guy wrote was the final episode of Car 54, Where Are You?
Brad Bannon is a Democratic campaign consultant and pollster.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/23/2005 12:02 ||
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#1
If the economy is bad, I would love to see it in full swing. Low inflation, low unemployemnt, rising wages, greater exports.... yessireee. Bad economy.
#2
I'll say it again - this is another example of why Democrats should never hold the presidency. To go to war or continue a war based on popularity is no leadership at all. Poll numbers should never dictate battle.
Dems/libs/anarchists/socialists/progressive/marxists are incapable of even running a radio network let alone lead a nation.
A little advice too - put down the Manifesto, have an idea of your own. The same old tired cliches and class eny are done. Maybe it's time to put the Dem Party in a museum.
#4
This is simple MSM assisted feces flinging. The Dems have been hoping since Bush won his first term they could bury him in it. Well it's paying off after 5 years. Problem is they are shoulder high in it now too.
#5
Why would the rest of us care about analogies based on a television show we've never heard of? The ones the writer needs to convince are the new voters, the ones who'll be old enough to vote in 2008, and to them he's coming off as an old fogey talking about how much better the world was when he was young. Everyone else made up their minds last November. As for the high gas prices, that's hurting oil-consuming world beyond our borders far more than it's hurting us in the U.S. Not that I'm thrilled, but my grocery store is giving me points worth 10 cents/gallon at its pumps, which I suspect is more than German or Chinese shoppers are getting.
Bringing together anarchists, Marxists and radical Muslims, new coalitions of Americans and Brits are joining forces not only to express opposition to the U.S. presence in Iraq but in some cases to urge outright support for the insurgents there killing GIs on a nearly daily basis.
Writing in a recent edition of the International Socialist Review, Paul D'Amato argues, "If the war is one of imperialist conquest, and the resistance opposes that conquest, then by definition the Iraqi resistance is a legitimate war of national liberation."
D'Amato says that to deny support for the resistance is synonymous with rejecting national independence for Iraq.
The anarchist site anarkismo.net, while teasing the possibility of support for the insurgents, ultimately urges against it, partly because the terrorists in Iraq allegedly are "pro-capitalist."
"Probably most of the fighters in the resistance (also called insurgents) are motivated by a just desire to get rid of foreign occupiers," writes Wayne Price on the group's site. "The movement is heterogeneous. But their leadership seems to be mostly Islamicist authoritarians, who want to establish a theocratic dictatorship and are explicitly pro-capitalist."
Despite the action of the "resistance" to route out the Americans, the characteristics cited by the anarchists, such as the fact their "tendencies have much in common with fascism" appear to disqualify them for support.
Meanwhile, the exteme leftist group Codepink is teaming up with radical Muslims to push opposition to American presence in Iraq.
Codepink is joining hands with the Muslim Public Affairs Council to sponsor an event next month in Culver City, Calif., to help unveil a new book, "Why They Don't Hate Us: Unveiling the Axis of Evil" by Mark LeVine, a leftist activists who says an "Axis of Empathy" as the only strategy that can bring about a long-term solution to the war between radical Islam and the West.
The executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council is Baghdad-born Salam Al-Marayati, known for his extreme anti-Israel, anti-American statements dating back to 9-11 and before.
In the United Kingdom, according to the London Spectator, a steering committee has been organized to coordinate activities of a cooperative effort joining Marxists and other leftists with radical Islamists. The committee consists of 18 from myriad hard-left groups, three from the radical wing of Britain's Labour Party, eight from the ranks of the radical Islamists and four leftist ecologists.
Writes Christopher Chantrill in the American Thinker: "The formal coalition between the hard left and the Islamists is a shock. It is difficult to believe that the secular left could really find common cause with religious fundamentalists of any stripe. But we should remember our history. In World War I, progressive souls sympathized with the German effort to humble the capitalist nation of shopkeepers. In World War II, progressives were indifferent to the fate of the European democracies until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. In World War III, they actively cheered for the Soviets although they denied the right of anyone to complain about it.
"It makes complete sense that the leftâs first act in the 21st century should be to form a coalition with a new anti-Western force. The war against democratic capitalism continues.
Can Ashcroft Gonzales put them all in concentration camps now?
#1
lots of meat to gnaw on here. I'll stick to a pet peeve of mine. So called anarchists are just marxists who are too embarassed by marxisms myriad failures to call themselves such. The real anarchists long got fed up with these brainless idiots and labelled themselves liberterians.
#2
Western patriots and soldiers agree to kill people who commit treason, upholding the oath sworn to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
#4
Right now, before push comes to shove, the US must have a serious debate on "When it is time to supress those who give aid and comfort to the enemy". There is ample precedent: the Civil War, World War I, World War II and the Cold War. The important point is to set the ground rules up now, so as to avoid politically motivated persecution, like when Earl Warren lobbyied Frank Roosevelt to keep the Japanese in concentration camps long after they were determined to not be a threat, with the idea of getting the dust bowl Okie vote for him in southern California (which didn't work anyway). For once, when and if there is a crackdown on villains, it should be because they did something already illegal, and they knew it was illegal, and did it anyway with criminal intent to give aid and comfort to the enemy. Reasonable people should be capable of determining ahead of time what is legitimate dissent and what is unlawful conduct. Remember also that during wartime, the ordinary rules of conduct are much stricter then during peace, as it may jeopardize the lives of Americans in combat.
#5
"Bringing together anarchists, Marxists and radical Muslims, new coalitions of Americans and Brits are joining forces"
Preferably in one room on the Afgan-Pak border.
Moose,
I love to see what you propose happen but I am afraid it's late in the game for the Bush Admin and they have more pertinent issues on the plate. For the DOJ to go after this, is to provide red meat for the MSM. Remember, its summer and the MSM is bored out of their mind.
Also, Gonzales have higher aspirations so please don't look to him.
Page 9, I think, from the DC Examiner. Just a little note on the editorial page....
Ugly Numbers
1,422 day since Sept. 11, 2001, that Osama bin Laden has gone uncaptured. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., recently released this number and compared it to the number of days from the bombing of Pearl Harbor until the Japanese surrendered (1,365).
But is the bin Laden figure quite as âuglyâ as it seems? Sure, itâd be nice to have bin Laden behind bars, but Reid seems to conveniently forget that, leading up to the Japanese surrender, the United States lost nearly 52,000 soldiers in the Pacific, dropped two atomic bombs and killed more than 100,000 civilians. Is Reid actually advocating such measures in the hunt for Osama bin Laden? Or is he simply spinning numbers for political fodder to use against the president?
Reid didnât forget, but he knows many Americans have forgotten, or for the younger generation, never knew. A lot of folks will say, âYeah, wossamatta wid dat Bush?â
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/23/2005 12:02 ||
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#1
What's ugly is that in 1945 nobody doubted the Dem party could provide wartime leadership. Now, it's unthinkable.
#2
In WWII, the party out of power didn't actively court treason. It cooperated with the administration, as politics truly stopped at the border.
In WWII, after Pearl Harbor, the isolationists, America-Firsters and American Bund were ignored or prosecuted, depending on their actions. In this war, our equivalents to the traitors looked at 9/11 as an opportunity, started organizing while the Towers were still burning, and the equally traitorous press started running their lies as soon as it was safe.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/23/2005 12:54 Comments ||
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#3
There's a large portion of our country that doesn't believe we are threatened and therefore doesn't believe we're at war. Regardless of how ridiculous that is in the face of 9/11 that's the way it is.
An active-duty Navy captain has become the second military officer to come forward publicly to say that a secret intelligence program tagged the ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks as a possible terrorist more than a year before the attacks.
The officer, Scott J. Phillpott, said in a statement on Monday that he could not discuss details of the military program, which was called Able Danger, but confirmed that its analysts had identified the Sept. 11 ringleader, Mohamed Atta, by name by early 2000. "My story is consistent," said Captain Phillpott, who managed the program for the Pentagon's Special Operations Command. "Atta was identified by Able Danger by January-February of 2000."
His comments came on the same day that the Pentagon's chief spokesman, Lawrence Di Rita, told reporters that the Defense Department had been unable to validate the assertions made by an Army intelligence veteran, Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, and now backed up by Captain Phillpott, about the early identification of Mr. Atta.
Colonel Shaffer went public with his assertions last week, saying that analysts in the intelligence project were overruled by military lawyers when they tried to share the program's findings with the F.B.I. in 2000 in hopes of tracking down terrorist suspects tied to Al Qaeda.
Mr. Di Rita said in an interview that while the department continued to investigate the assertions, there was no evidence so far that the intelligence unit came up with such specific information about Mr. Atta and any of the other hijackers.
He said that while Colonel Shaffer and Captain Phillpott were respected military officers whose accounts were taken seriously, "thus far we've not been able to uncover what these people said they saw - memory is a complicated thing."
The statement from Captain Phillpott , a 1983 Naval Academy graduate who has served in the Navy for 22 years, was provided to The New York Times and Fox News through the office of Representative Curt Weldon, a Pennsylvania Republican who is vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and a longtime proponent of so-called data-mining programs like Able Danger.
Asked if the Defense Department had questioned Captain Phillpott in its two-week-old investigation of Able Danger, another Pentagon spokesman, Maj. Paul Swiergosz, said he did not know.
Representative Weldon also arranged an interview on Monday with a former employee of a defense contractor who said he had helped create a chart in 2000 for the intelligence program that included Mr. Atta's photograph and name.
The former contractor, James D. Smith, said that Mr. Atta's name and photograph were obtained through a private researcher in California who was paid to gather the information from contacts in the Middle East. Mr. Smith said that he had retained a copy of the chart until last year and that it had been posted on his office wall at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland. He said it had become stuck to the wall and was impossible to remove when he switched jobs.
In its final report last year, the Sept. 11 commission said that American intelligence agencies were unaware of Mr. Atta until the day of the attacks.
The leaders of the Sept. 11 commission acknowledged on Aug. 12 that their staff had met with a Navy officer last July, 10 days before releasing the panel's final report, who asserted that a highly classified intelligence operation, Able Danger, had identified "Mohamed Atta to be a member of an Al Qaeda cell located in Brooklyn."
But the statement, which did not identify the officer, said the staff determined that "the officer's account was not sufficiently reliable to warrant revision of the report or further investigation" and that the intelligence operation "did not turn out to be historically significant."
With his comments on Monday, Captain Phillpott acknowledged that he was the officer who had briefed the commission last year. "I will not discuss the issues outside of my chain of command and the Department of Defense," he said. "But my story is consistent. Atta was identified by Able Danger by January-February of 2000. I have nothing else to say."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 01:46 ||
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#1
so, they knew..... big cushy buffer zone between those military experts and their findings and the ultimate order giver in this country, how convienent.
SKULL & BONES AND 9/11:
THE HIDDEN ROLE OF SECRET SOCIETIES
IN CREATING THE �WAR ON TERROR�
By Christopher Bollyn
American Free Press
Because the Bush administration, which blocked an open inquest into the terrorism of 9/11, uses it as a �new Pearl Harbor� to launch costly and unjust wars of aggression, the obvious question has arisen: �Are they complicit?�
Two years after the terror attacks of 9/11, total secrecy continues to surround the official investigation of the crime. Government officials have exploited the attacks � and the fear they created � to wage a global �war on terrorism� and undermine freedom and prosperity in America. An un-elected president and a cabal of appointed officials, all extreme Zionists, who opposed any open investigation into the attacks have ruthlessly employed them as a pretext to launch long-planned and unjust invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, at great expense to the U.S. taxpayer.
After President George Walker Bush requested an additional $87 billion from Congress and declared it the �duty� of western nations to assist in �rolling back the terrorist threat to civilization� in Iraq, the Financial Times (FT) of London said Bush�s �rose-tinted and information-deficient analysis should be rejected.
�To call this a mess is to understate the matter,� FT said about the chaos and violence in Iraq. �It is now beyond reasonable doubt that the present set-up cannot and will not work.�
WORLD WAR IV
R. James Woolsey, a former Director of Central Intelligence, calls the war on terror �World War IV� and said recently that �we will be in this war for many years, quite probably for decades.� Woolsey told the Royal Institute of International Affairs that three movements, all Islamic, are �essentially at war with the west, with modernity, with western Europe and the United States and our allies.� The enemies, Woolsey said, are �the fascist� and �anti-semitic� regimes of Syria, Libya, and Iraq, �the mullahs in Tehran,� and �Al Qaeda and its supporters.�
For historians, the war on terrorism is the manifestation and realization of the �clash of civilizations� predicted 10 years ago by Yale scholar Samuel Huntington in a much-ballyhooed 1993 article published in the Council on Foreign Relations� (CFR) prestigious journal Foreign Affairs. (Huntington�s subsequent book was entitled The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of the World Order.)
What Huntington failed to mention, however, is the most obvious cause for the �clash� between western and Islamic civilizations: oil.
By 2010 the Muslim world will control as much as 60 percent of the world�s oil production and 95 percent of remaining global oil export capacity, according to Britain�s former environment minister, Michael Meacher.
�WAR ON TERRORISM IS BOGUS�
In a recent article entitled �This war on terrorism is bogus� in The Guardian (UK), Meacher suggests that high-level U.S. officials were complicit in the 9/11 attacks and allowed a �new Pearl Harbor� to occur in order to put into effect a �blueprint for the creation of a global Pax Americana.� The document was drawn up and signed by the leading architects of the war on terrorism in the Bush administration.
The �blueprint� Meacher refers to is a document entitled Rebuilding America�s Defenses, written in September 2000 by a neo-conservative �think-tank,� the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). The PNAC document calls for large increases in the defense budget to transform the U.S. military into a global force. The plan calls for �a substantial American force presence in the Gulf,� among other things, which it says, �transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.�
The people involved in the PNAC, and those for whom it was drawn up, are the leading war hawks of the Bush administration: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, and I. Lewis Libby. The project includes key U.S. supporters of the extreme right-wing Israeli Likud Party, including the Lithuanian-born historian and former dean of Yale, Donald Kagan, and his two sons, Fred and Robert, William Kristol of The Weekly Standard, and the Orthodox Jewish rabbi Dov Solomon Zakheim, the current Comptroller and Chief Financial Officer of the Dept. of Defense.
Nearly all of the PNAC participants have come out of one of two elite academic institutions: Yale University or John�s Hopkins Nitze School of Advance International Studies.
Zakheim, whose place of birth is not given in Who�s Who, has strong ties to Britain, where he was educated and lived for many years. Zakheim comes from a Zionist family and his father reportedly grew up in the �same small Polish town as Yitzhak Shamir� and �numbered Menachem Begin among his closest friends.� Begin and Shamir are two of the most extreme Likud leaders in Israeli history.
Vanity Fair asked, �Is Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz driving U.S. foreign policy?� in a recent article, �Bush�s Brain Trust� by Sam Tanenhaus, which discusses the powerful Zionist trio of White House advisers: Wolfowitz, Kristol, and �the controversial �prince of darkness� Richard Perle.�
�Others warn of a �cabal� or �conspiracy� of mostly Jewish �kosher conservatives� who have �hijacked� the government even as they secretly serve the interests of Israel�s Likud Party,� Tanenhaus wrote. �There are rumors of a �shadow government,� being run from Wolfowitz�s office, which is said to have usurped intelligence operations from the CIA.�
Perle is one of the founding member of the PNAC. Veteran journalist John Pilger wrote about Perle: �I interviewed Perle when he was advising Reagan, and when he spoke about �total war�, I mistakenly dismissed him as mad,� Pilger wrote. �He recently used the term again in describing America's �war on terror�. �No stages,� he said. �This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq... this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war... our children will sing great songs about us years from now.��
�A POLITICAL MYTH�
The �global war on terrorism,� Meacher says, �has the hallmarks of a political myth propagated to pave the way for a wholly different agenda � the U.S. goal of world hegemony, built around securing by force command over the oil supplies required to drive the whole project.�
The �conventional explanation,� that the United States retaliated against the Taliban regime and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan because of the 9/11 attacks and then extended the war against terrorism to Iraq, �does not fit all the facts,� Meacher wrote. �The truth may be a great deal murkier.
�It is clear the U.S. authorities did little or nothing to pre-empt the events of 9/11,� Meacher wrote, despite the fact �that at least 11 countries provided advance warning to the U.S. of the 9/11 attacks.�
Meacher cites the former U.S. federal prosecutor, John Loftus, who said: �The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defense of incompetence.�
Were U.S. air security operations �deliberately stood down on September 11?� Meacher asks. �If so, why, and on whose authority?�
Meacher lists documented evidence that the FBI and high officials in the Bush administration actually prevented the capture of known terrorists. As whistle-blowing FBI agent Robert Wright told ABC News (Dec. 19, 2002) � FBI headquarters wanted no arrests.
�None of this assembled evidence,� Meacher wrote, �is compatible with the idea of a real, determined war on terrorism.
�The catalogue of evidence does, however, fall into place when set against the PNAC blueprint,� Meacher says. �From this it seems that the so-called �war on terrorism� is being used largely as bogus cover for achieving wider U.S. strategic geopolitical objectives.�
Meacher�s comments are noteworthy because they are the first time a member (until June 2003) of British Prime Minister Tony Blair�s cabinet has openly questioned the validity of the �war on terrorism� and suggested that high officials in the U.S. government were in some way complicit in the 9/11 attacks.
Meacher�s observations lend credence to the conclusions of researchers like Walter E. Davis, PhD, at Kent State University, who recently published a paper with 22 points which, he says, �suggest that the most plausible explanation of events is that the Bush administration was complicit in the terrorist attacks.
�This should be a national and international scandal,� Davis wrote. �What is being discovered will shock many people, which is one of the reasons for deliberate corporate media cover-up.�
POISONING PEACE
The Anglo-American invasion and occupation of Iraq is counter-productive, according to Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-WV): �Our military action in Iraq has forged a caldron of contempt for America, a dangerous brew that may poison the efforts of peace throughout the Middle East and result in the rapid invigoration of worldwide terrorism,� Byrd wrote in the Washington Post on August 26.
�As so many warned this administration before it launched its misguided war on Iraq, there is evidence that our crackdown in Iraq is likely to convince 1,000 new Bin Ladens to plan other horrors,� Byrd told the Senate on May 21, �Instead of damaging the terrorists, we have given them new fuel for their fury.�
A day after the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad was bombed, Jessica Stern of Harvard�s Kennedy School of Government wrote in the New York Times: �America has taken a country that was not a terrorist threat and turned it into one.�
THE ARCHITECTURAL LEVEL
If officials of the Bush administration were complicit in the attacks, as Davis and Meacher suggest, there would have to be a secret network that connects the planners at the highest levels of government. There are a few secret organizations to which key high-level government officials belong, for example, the Council on Foreign Relations and The Order of Skull and Bones of Yale University. President George H.W. Bush is a member of both. Among fellow �Bonesmen� the elder Bush is known as �Magog.�
Several of the highest U.S. officials are members of organizations connected to foreign intelligence agencies, such as the British-based Royal Institute of International Affairs and the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS). Dr. James G. Roche, for example, the civilian secretary of the U.S. Air Force and Army belongs to the IISS. Roche was the man in charge of the U.S. Air Force and its strategic air defense systems on September 11, 2001.
THE ILLUMINATI
In his booklet �9/11: The Great Illusion,� George Humphrey says �the Illuminati� were behind the terror attacks and have used fear to push forward their New World Order agenda. �The events of 9/11 were the classic set up using the Hegelian principle,� Humphrey says, of creating a Thesis and Anti-thesis conflict in order to produce a Synthesis, which results in the desired outcome for the highest-level planners.
Speaking to the nation on September 7, President Bush implied that a permanent change in American society had resulted from the terror attacks of 9/11: �And for America,� Bush said, �there will be no going back to the era before September the 11th, 2001 � to false comfort in a dangerous world.�
�The Illuminati have been organized for centuries, and have control of our economy, culture, and political organizations,� Humphrey wrote. �They are behind a vast majority of the wars and revolutions, and are behind the events of September 11.� Humphrey, however, does not name the suspected �Illuminati� culprits.
SKULL & BONES
If the �war against terrorism� is indeed creating more terror, and if the same people and agencies have actually supported both sides of the so-called �war,� it can be said that the Hegelian principle is being applied.
The Bush administration�s current foes in the �war on terrorism� were once good friends. George W. Bush and the Bin Laden family have been friends and business partners. The Bin Laden family financed Bush�s first business enterprise. This connection and the history of covert U.S. assistance for the Moslem resistance fighters in Afghanistan after the Soviet occupation and the criminal regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq suggest the Hegelian principle has been used by the highest-level planners to create the �war on terrorism.�
A detailed explanation of how the Anglo-American Establishment has employed the Hegelian principle to influence American society and guide U.S. foreign policy during the 20th Century is described in detail in the late Antony C. Sutton�s book, America�s Secret Establishment, which focuses on the most powerful of Yale University�s secret senior-year societies: The Order of Skull & Bones. Sutton�s book is unique in its analysis of the political influence of �The Order� and he provides the names of the organization�s membership from its creation at Yale in 1833 until 1985.
President George W. Bush, his father, and his grandfather, Prescott Sheldon Bush, were all �tapped� to be among the 15 �Bonesmen� during their final year at Yale. No fewer than 6 members of the Bush family, 9 from the Cheney clan, and 15 from the Walker�s have been inducted into this most secretive of Yale�s senior societies. It is important to note that, unlike other college fraternities, Yale�s senior societies are geared to post-collegiate life,
According to Sutton and others, �The Order� has controlled Yale University for over 100 years and is a �decision-making core� at the center of a network that includes the Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg, and The Trilateral Commission. �A secret society within a secret society� is how Sutton described the role of The Order.
Already in 1873, Yale scholars reported that Skull & Bones �have obtained control of Yale.� Since 1871, the Yale Presidency has been �almost a fiefdom for The Order,� according to Sutton.
The Order is also said to exercise great influence within the CIA.
�Yale has influenced the CIA more than any other university, giving the CIA the atmosphere of a class reunion,� Gaddis Smith, professor of history at Yale, said. And �Bonesmen� are foremost among the �spooks� at the agency, according to Smith. President George H.W. Bush (Director of Central Intelligence 1976-77) is one of many �Bonesmen� to have held senior positions at the CIA.
�The synthesis sought by the Establishment is called the New World Order,� Sutton wrote in 1984. The elder Bush first articulated the need for �a new world order� as he waged war against Iraq in 1991.
�In the Hegelian system conflict is essential,� Sutton wrote. �This conflict of opposites is essential to bring about change. Today this process can be identified�where �change� is promoted and �conflict management� is termed the means to bring about this change.�
�Historically, operations of The Order have concentrated on society, how to change society in a specific manner towards a specific goal: a New World Order,� Sutton wrote in the early 1980�s. �The activities of The Order are directed towards changing our society, changing the world, to bring about a New World Order,� he wrote. �This will be a planned order with heavily restricted individual freedom, without Constitutional protection, without national boundaries or cultural distinction.�
The Order of Skull & Bones is �the elite of the elite� of Yale�s secret societies. At any given time some 600 members of The Order are probably alive. Skull & Bones and Yale�s other secret societies serve as �recruiting grounds� for the highest levels of government, intelligence, law, and finance.
American Free Press asked Alexandra Robbins, author of a recent book about Skull & Bones, Secrets of the Tomb, if she thought �The Order� has an inordinate amount of influence within the U.S. government or the intelligence agencies.
�Four out of the nine current presidential candidates are Yalies,� Robbins said. �Three of them are Yale secret society men. I think that says a lot.� Presidential candidate Sen. John Forbes Kerry is also a �Bonesman.� The third is likely to be Sen. Joseph Lieberman.
�Skull & Bones is not simply a microcosmic subset of a wider American elite, it is the top of the pile and in the driver�s seat,� Andrei Navrozov, Yale graduate and author of �The Gingerbread Race,� wrote. �These people run the country,� he said. �They are responsible for what goes on. They should be known so they can be held to account.�
�The ritual is not just silly,� Navrozov says about the Skull & Bones secret and bizarre initiation ritual, which involves a symbolic death and rebirth as a �Knight� of The Order. �It is like a black mass,� he said.
�Not unlike some Masonic ceremonies, it involves a compromising of individual dignity and thereby ensures a Bonesman�s loyalty to his society,� Claire Messud wrote about the Skull & Bones initiation rite in Observer Life Magazine (1994). �This loyalty is fiercely maintained: not one of the 2,289 initiated members of the society has ever spoken of his involvement.
�Certainly the �conspiracy�, inasmuch as there can be imagined to be one, is not that Bonesmen are everywhere in positions of power but that the outside world cannot recognize them as such,� Messud wrote.
�The habit of secrecy and the concept of noblesse oblige of the Knights towards the Barbarians, born in undergraduate days, must of necessity have spilled over into the organizations and mechanisms that the Bonesmen have gone on to inhabit and to master,� Messud wrote. �When the organization mastered has become the entire nation, Navrozov�s paranoia ceases to seem quite as extreme.�
These are a few of the Yale graduates and �Bonesmen� (S&B) who have played key roles in the events of 9/11 and/or the war on terrorism:
President George W. Bush (S&B)
Vice President Dick Cheney (attended Yale)
Attorney General John Ashcroft (Yale)
Samuel P. Huntington (Yale) � Author of the article and book that predicted the �war on terror�: The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of the World Order in the Council of Foreign Relations journal Foreign Affairs Summer 1993.
James Woolsey (Yale) � Former DCI and leading advocate of war on terror.
New York Governor George Pataki (Yale): initiated the privatization of the World Trade Center, which was leased to Larry Silverstein and the Israeli/Australian Frank Lowy. Pataki also privatized Stewart Air Force Base, which was sold to a British company and is run by its Austin, Texas subsidiary.
(Ronald S. Lauder, Chairman of the State Research Council on Privatization, is said to have made the initial recommendation to privatize Stewart in 1992. As a senior officer of a number of Jewish organizations, Lauder frequently travels to Israel where he has the confidence of the highest officials of Israel�s government and its intelligence agencies.)
The two planes that struck the World Trade Center converged, and nearly collided, over Stewart on their flights to New York City.
Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-Conn.): a graduate of Yale and its law school and a key member of the closed congressional inquiry into the events of 9/11.
Stephen Allen Schwarzman (S&B): CEO and President of The Blackstone Group, which purchased the mortgage on 7 World Trade Center, controlled by Larry Silverstein, on October 17, 2000. Silverstein�s 47-story building mysteriously �self-demolished� at 5:25 p.m. on 9/11. It is the only steel-frame high-rise in history to have collapsed due to fire.
Schwarzman�s partner and co-founder of the Blackstone Group is Peter G. Peterson, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and the Council on Foreign Relations.
The Blackstone Group has a �strategic alliance� with Kissinger McLarty Associates. Henry Kissinger was Bush�s first choice to chair the 9/11 investigation.
L. Paul Bremer (Yale): a senior manager from Kissinger McLarty Associates and the appointed governor of occupied Iraq.
Oklahoma Democratic Senator David L. Boren (S&B): responsible for George Tenet being director of central intelligence (DCI), according to Bob Woodward (Yale, Book & Snake).
(After graduating from Yale, Woodward served as a liaison officer for the Task Force 157, an Office of Naval Intelligence operation. This ONI Task Force, using the top secret SR-1 channel, coordinated communiqu�s between the CIA, NSA, DIA, NSC, and the State Department. Woodward reportedly served in this capacity during the Israeli-Arab conflict of 1967.)
Boren recommended Tenet to President-elect Bill Clinton (Yale) in 1992 to head the administration's transition team on intelligence. In 1995, Clinton named Tenet deputy CIA director and in 1997 appointed him DCI.
In early 2001, Boren called President-elect Bush and urged him to keep Tenet on as CIA director. Boren told Bush to ask his father, which he did, and Tenet was kept as DCI.
Financial Times� James Harding reported that Bush speaks with his father on a daily basis. �Their conversations are private,� Harding wrote, �But according to at least one person who knows the former president, the elder Mr. Bush is in a �high state of anxiety� about the situation in Iraq and the possibility that his son could follow in his footsteps and lose his bid for re-election.�
In the book, Bush at War, Woodward presents a rather incredible dialogue, which he claims was the conversation between Boren and Tenet as they had breakfast together in Washington on the morning of 9/11:
"What are you worried about these days?" Boren asked Tenet that morning. "Bin Laden," Tenet replied, referring to terrorist leader Osama bin Laden, an exiled Saudi who was living in Afghanistan and had developed the worldwide network al Qaeda, Arabic for "the Base." He was convinced that bin Laden was going to do something big, he said.
"Oh, George!" Boren said. For the last two years he had been listening to his friend's concerns about bin Laden. How could one private person without the resources of a foreign government be such a threat? he asked.
"You don't understand the capabilities and the reach of what they're putting together," Tenet said.
Suddenly, several of Tenet's security guards approached. They were not strolling. They were bolting toward the table.
Uh-oh, Boren thought.
"Mr. Director," one of them said, "there's a serious problem."
"What is it?" Tenet asked, indicating that it was okay to speak freely.
"The World Trade tower has been attacked."
"This has bin Laden all over it," Tenet told Boren. "I've got to go."
Finis
Posted by: bk ||
08/23/2005 10:13 Comments ||
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#2
Dear Rantburg.
Is your "Flaming Moonbat" Filter broken?
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/23/2005 10:44 Comments ||
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#4
This is a very weird story. First a Col. comes forward with a claim about early identification of Atta and others as 'persons of interest' and that Able Danger was forbidden to pass such information on to civilian authorities. Seems to pass the 'smell test'. Then come absolute denials from on high, accompanied by allegations and smears about the Col. The Pentagon cannot find any documentation in support of Shaffer's fairly specific claims. Something is starting to smell 'fishy'.
Now we have a Capt. seeming to confirm the Col. If the pattern follows, his career is now finished. Somebody pretty high up has something to hide, and it is not at all clear who or what. The 'wall' is public knowledge, and it would indeed have caused exactly the kind of situation described by Shaffer & Phillpott, so what value is there in a coverup? It is also (I think) documented who built the wall and how they justified it, so who could be being protected? For that matter, what value would there be for these guys to make up the story?
My motto is 'if it doesn't make sense, you don't know the whole story,' and this whole thing doesn't make sense to me (& btw, the whole Skull & Bones thing is so wacky as to be almost amusing, though a waste of bandwidth.) If DoD is willing to sacrifice career officers to protect someone or something the protected entity must have pretty deep roots or high value (it is big enough that it will take a lot of effort to protect, now.)
(TWA 800 and the OKC bombing are a couple of other events that don't entirely make sense to me. Also the new cameraderie between the latest members of the ex-Presidents club; maybe there is some knowledge at that level that cannot be revealed to the public that they find relief in being able to discuss with someone else?)
#5
So to summarize bk's poisonous screed (actually not even his own, he has to cut-and-paste the words of others), it's all a plot by the evil Jooos and the eviller Zionists to control us all.
How very clever he is to have discerned this using his very own brain. Truly, antisemitism is the philosophy of those of limited capacity.
#6
Since we're on "speculation theories" -- I did read somewhere the other day, a thought as to why DOD isn't finding records.
This was a Special Forces ops, run when Schoomaker
was in charge. Was this a "rogue" outfit, run by Schoomaker? I'm not wanting to spread rumors, I just thought this was an interesting thought.
#7
Me thinks it was just one example of many projects over the years that got stood up with good intentions, and just when everyone starts making headway the problems pop up.
Usually key people come up on new assignments, or their proponent organizations tag them for other duties elsewhere, or underlying friction starts to hinder progres, or some jealous upper echelon desk jockey starts to pour sand in the machinery for some hidden agenda of their own. Sometimes legal eagles start to piss in the coffee and that drives folks away.
So many times have projects appeared to result in invaluable divedends and are hurridly shut back down as though success is an evil monster that may grow and compete with the other organizations for funds and attention.
What happens when privately run organizations start to out perform government run agencies? How long does it take for the IRS to start snooping around and all the other A B C agencies to sniff out irregularities? It don't take long.
I am surprised that this alleged joint service group functioned as long as it purportedly did. After all, if higher ranking officers and Senior Executive Staff cannot get some credit for its successes then why let it live and grow? Shutting it down quickly alleviates the headaches later of finding staff and funds to keep it going... forget about its successes.
My hats off to the fine gentlemen that showed courage to step forward and provide a glimpse of those that try to defend this fine country and get snookered by politicos, management (no leaders in sight) pukes and lawyers. Shame on them!
Its all about them and serving the country is a ruse for self-gratification. I thank the Colonel & Captain stepping forward and showing leadership on this issue... who cares about the timing!
There is always time for truth so screw the mealy-mouthed pin heads analysts speculating on the timing of this.
#9
I did read somewhere the other day, a thought as to why DOD isn't finding records.
Ever see the last scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark? Anyone who has done records keeping and maintence in the government knows this is not going to be an easy dig. Its going to take some time. BTW, did they ever establish how to retain and store/archive electronic based materials? And what materials will be handled as such? Back in the early 90s we just dumped/erased anything that wasn't converted to paper for archiving.
A debate between George Galloway and Christopher Hitchens
on Iraq and U.S. and British foreign policy.
Moderated by Amy Goodman And in Grand Rapids:
In what promises to be a lively debate, Victor Davis Hanson and Arianna Huffington will square off on whether the United States is an empire.
#2
Arianna will fly there in her private jet to lecture that we little people shouldn't be allowed to have SUV's. Bitchy hypocrite sellout
Hitchens will be like Hannibal Lector over Galloway.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 9:20 Comments ||
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#3
Hitchens vs Galloway should be a real entertaining slug-fest, although I suspect Galloway will be eventually resort to insane ranting and the fight will be called a TKO.
I doubht that Arianna can take a punch when the gal is fighting above her weight against VDH. VDH by a knockout.
An article by Edward Jay Epstein on his own web log.
... First, if Able Danger obtained from airline manifests the names of Arab males who flew to Pakistan in 1999 and the names of Arab males who applied for a U.S. visa with a newly issued passport, it could cross-referenced both lists. Comparing the dates of the trip to Pakistan and the new passport, it could derive a list of Arabs who had gotten replacement passports for themselves before applying for a US visa. Presumably, the Arabs on that list would include people seeking to hide trips to al-Qaeda facilities in Pakistan and Afghanistan from US authorities. And, it would have the names of Atta and al-Shehhi.
Next, if the list of possible visitors to al-Qaeda camps was cross-referenced with applicants to US flight schools, Atta's name would come up 31 times, as he applied to 31 flight schools. The reason Able Danger might elect this criteria was the 1998 accounts that Osama Bin Laden planned to train pilots for crop dusting and other agriculture tasks.
On that short list now would be Atta and Shehhi. If Able Danger had a liaison with German intelligence, it could further learn the address both men used, 54 Marienstrasse in Hamburg, had been under police surveillence for possible extremist Islamic activities.
Finally, if the short list had been cross referenced with US visa applications in 2000â Able Danger would have turned up the person that Atta and al-Shehhi gave as their point of contact in America. If that name had also been given by other suspects, Able Danger would have reason to consider that Atta and al-Shehhi were coming to America to join a conspiracy. The visa applications could also explain how Able Danger had Attaâs photograph on its chart of the cell, as described by Captain Phillpott. (The 911 Commission had no opportunity to examine Atta and al-Shehhiâs visa applications because in 2001 they were destroyed "according to routine document handling practices" by the Department of State.) ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/23/2005 00:58 ||
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#1
Ref my comment in the other thread that Epstein doesn't understand data mining.
#2
Why do I get this gut feeling that even if Able Danger had been able to provide the information to the FBI, anything would have been done, in light of other information the Buearu was alerted to and ignored?
Experts are warning that al-Qaeda has the desire -- and the knowledge -- to take out satellites. Dawn Rae Downton reports on the devastating impact such an attack would have on business, communications -- and the American military.
In May, 1998, mortally wounded by contamination on a printed circuit board, Galaxy IV failed as it sat in geostationary orbit over the middle of the Western hemisphere. Ninety percent of the pagers in the U.S. and Canada -- 45 million of them -- fell silent instantly, including the pagers of volunteer firefighters and doctors on call. CBS, Reuters and UPI lost their news feeds; gas-pump credit card readers and ATMs stopped working from St. John's to San Diego. It was up to a week before most users were back on line.
This is what happens when a single "bird," one of several hundred up there, bites the dust. Imagine the chaos when they all fail at the same time.
Security experts say that al-Qaeda has imagined just that. It's not so hard to interfere with satellites, and especially to destroy them. Sooner or later, the experts think, al-Qaeda will have our birds in its sights.
While communications satellites alone generate $50-billion to American industry and $120-billion worldwide, money's not the object here. Catastrophe is the goal, since without satellites we'd be nowhere, literally, with our security compromised. Satellites allow us to use our cellphones -- and give the U.S. government access to every call. (Ottawa has similar access to each call made in this country, but is prohibited from using it without court permission.)
Geostationary satellites distribute our TV signals, tie together financial institutions, monitor weather. Commercial communications satellites do just about everything -- for instance, one was used until 2000 by Osama bin Laden himself (his phone number was 00873 6825 05331). Without commercial satellites, couriers can't deliver and grocery stores don't get stocked.
U.S. military commanders use Iridium satellite phones to call out from the deserts of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan (as well as the myriad of places the U.S. military says they're not). These 66 satellites zipping around the earth every 100 minutes in a relatively low orbit of 775 kilometres were originally a worldwide cellphone network owned by Motorola. Launched in 1998, Iridium promptly went bankrupt for lack of subscribers. The U.S. Department of Defence is now its heavily dependent prime user, and an Iridium failure would confound troops overseas. (Anyone can buy an Iridium phone, which can be used like a cellphone anywhere in the world, but at $1,000 a phone and $5 a minute, most people buy cellphones instead.)
American spy satellites watch around the world, and look down on us right here at home. Echelon, satellite-based and operated by the National Security Agency, gives the United States the capacity to monitor every cellphone conversation and e-mail exchange in the world. The last July 21 London bomber to be apprehended was traced by cellphone calls to Italy, where he was picked up.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 00:41 ||
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#1
Damnit guys, if nothing else can we at leat set up a moonbase alpha before Osama?
Posted by: Mac Suirtain ||
08/23/2005 0:59 Comments ||
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#2
Exactly which "security" experts were these? Terrorists will have a hell of a time getting to a satellite, let alone many. There are multiple layers, spreading many miles deep, of satellites and sending "junk" into orbit is way beyond anything Al-qaeda can do, let alone target a set of satellites. Tracking them is a full time job, even for NORAD and don't tell me that Al-Qaeda is gonna infiltrate every satellite maker in the world to sprinkle "contaminates" on the circuit board. Jamming is nearly impossible to bring down the entire grid. Commercial stations are spread throughout the globe and military ones use the same frequency jumping that the military radios (SINGARS) do and it makes them nearly impossible to jam as well (since if you get something strong enough to jam almost every frequency band you ain't talking to anyone either and it is real easy for every piece of artillery and air asset to pinpoint your location within seconds and send you a going away present).
What a bunch of uneducated, moonbat, paranoia hype. But then, what else do we expect from Canada nowadays?
#5
Writer is totally ignorant of the way Satellites work. What ever kind of fear this guy is peddling is not going to work on people with even a basic clue. Jamming a civilian satellite will get you quickly caught. Trying to do it on milsats is a laugh it will also get you killed. Clueless BS.
#6
Boy, thanks guys! I wuz worried the Jihadis were gonna zoom up on Katushya rockets and slash dem sats with simitars. Mebbe they could hijack a Paki rocket and force a controller to ram a single satellite? Or were they gonna use one of their fleet of 40 nukes to EMP the birds?
All hard to imagine.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/23/2005 7:26 Comments ||
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The finalists for the 2003 Writers' Trust of Canada/McClelland & Stewart Journey Prize are: Dawn Rae Downton for "Hansel and Gretel"
Published in Grain
A restless teenage girl with dreams of leaving her family discovers something unexpected about trying to escape her past.
Dawn Rae Downton is an expatriate Newfoundlander who lives on Nova Scotia's South Shore. Her fiction has appeared in The Fiddlehead, the Wascana Review, Descant, Pagitica, TickleAce, and Grain. She also writes non-fiction, and her family memoir about Depression-era Newfoundland, Seldom, was judged one of the best books of 2002 by the editors of Amazon.ca. Her second memoir, Diamond, was published in 2003. She recently completed a novel set in occupied France during the Second World War, and is working on another set in Vietnam.
I love articles that start with the anonymous "Experts are warning..."
Posted by: john ||
08/23/2005 9:12 Comments ||
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#11
Fiddlehead, huh? How apropos
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 9:23 Comments ||
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#12
She recently completed a novel set in occupied France during the Second World War, and is working on another set in Vietnam.
Both, no doubt, focusing on the brave resistance to American invaders.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/23/2005 10:15 Comments ||
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#13
"Stop looking at us! I said never look at us!"
#16
TH864---They have not thought that one through yet.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/23/2005 11:59 Comments ||
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#17
The article is .... not well argued.
But the threat is real. Scenario: one supportive nation-state is willing to launch several payloads at once into geosynchronous orbits. The payloads explode to create a band of debris sufficiently dense to damage satellites in that orbit.
Milsats have maneuvering ability, but it is limited by the amount of fuel on the bird, which must last its entire orbital life.
Civilian sats have less, because of cost-benefit judgements made at design & launch time.
Now, I'm not saying it would be EASY or that an attempt would succeed. But you can bet that scenarios for attacks on our satellite constellations were developed by the Soviet Union and others and that our military takes the possiblity seriously.
#20
Just one other point: the scenario I sketched out deliberately depended on the support of a nation state.
Ah, you say, noone would be so suicidal as to attempt such a launch as it would call down a massive retaliation on them.
Well, maybe. But if they really thought they could succeed, such retaliation would be very difficult to pull off and the resulting chaos and economic damage in our country and the global economy would make it difficult to organize a counter strike. And in any case, the damage would have been done.
Nor could we easily replace the satellites currently in orbit after an attack. At least, we could not do so quickly. It takes a good long while to build and launch satellites. It's not the sort of thing you just double the assembly line for.
New, less vulnerable designs? Here's a true story from a program with which I have some familiarity. Mission critical bird is developed in a high priority push. Two are built at the cost of ... let's just say a whole lot of money.
Then, one is tested to destruction over several months before the 2nd one is launched.
But back to those nation states who might cooperate in such an attack. I'm thinking of three countries. One is an old enemy whose space capability hasn't entirely faded away. One is a rising competitor who is engaged in a massive military and technical buildup with a clear space component.
and the third is a country that is pushing missile and nuclear programs using imported technology. Their domestic expertise is less impressive, but their output of spittle and open ambition rivals pretty much anyone else on the globe.
#21
The payloads explode to create a band of debris sufficiently dense to damage satellites in that orbit.
If one were to assume that all of the satellites in question travelled through a path encompassed by a 1 mile by 1 mile box, it quickly becomes obvious that the amount of material required to fill this box would be enormous.
If one wished to fill this 1 mile box with steel fragments to the depth of 1 foot (assume only 10% of the space is filled and the density of steel is 490 lb/cubic foot), then one would need to put 683,000 tons of steel into orbit. It is the will of Allah!
Al Qaeda would love to be able to do this, but I don't think rocket science is their strong suit, unless the words "propelled grenade" are attached.
So the Govt is exploring such eventualities, but they are most concerned with radiation interference in Sat operation from earth based lasers.
I've read in other places the DoD has succeeded in shooting a low orbit satellite with a laser. But it required a laser mounted to a jumbo jet.
AQ doesn't seem to have those capabilities, they'd be better served attacking traditional targets like shipping yards. Or at best electronic attacks, but casting debris into space, seems highly unlikely to me.
#23
How hard is it to send satellites their attitude adjustment commands? I remember reading some 20 years ago that some of them were vulnerable to tinkering by unauthorized "hobbyists." I assume that more recent ones have some kind of authentication, but I've no inside knowledge.
Posted by: James ||
08/23/2005 14:13 Comments ||
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#24
Two different issues, Elvis.
The CNN article has to do with debris from a satellite kill in low earth orbit. That's where a lot of commercial comms satellites are, but note that many of the military satellites orbit at much greater heights.
Nor are space-based kinetic attacks out of the realm of consideration. For instance, consider the Brilliant Pebbles research program (started during the Strategic Defense Initiative and killed under Les Aspin, Clinton's SECDEF).
Brilliant Pebbles was oriented towards killing missiles during boost phase. However, reports at the time suggested that the work originally also considered orbit to orbit attacks. BP reportedly was constrained at the time (late 80s & early 90s) by the available computer hardware and software needed for detailed missile intercept, through variable atmospheric conditions, during the few seconds of boost phase with a sufficiently high probability of kill ratio.
Today we have much more advanced computational capability in lighter packages. Moreover, the orbit to orbit scenario for a suicidal satellite is a much simpler one than Brilliant Pebbles entailed. No atmospheric variability to worry about in space itself. And the orbital mechanics associated with inert kinetic material are well known. A lot less than 10% fill by volume of an orbit would be quite effective.
I'm not suggesting that al-Qaeda has access to a successful version of Brilliant Pebbles, or anything quite like it. I *am* suggesting that a lot of work has been done in the US, and probably in the former Soviet Union at a minimum, that could be applied towards satellite kills from in-orbit kinetic attacks.
#26
of relevant interest is the work currently being done on Multiple Kill Vehicles. While this program is part of ballistic missile defense, consider the fact that ballistic missiles spend most of their trajectory in space.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 14:32 Comments ||
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#28
I would agree that the steel fragment idea could (in theory) be done from Russia and China, but I don't think the kill/dollar spent ratio would be worth it. The amount of fragments is to high for our current launch techonology (mass drivers might work).
The point is, Al-Qaeda can not reach our satellites. A more feasible scenerio is a light plane packed with explosives exploding in a theme park. A low body count, high visable target is very much in Al-Qaeda's range of options.
#29
Captain America, the threat is being taken seriously within DOD. It's a highly classified realm, but this year's annual report to Congress on China's military power specifically notes Chinese work towards anti-satellite capabilities using a variety of techniques ranging from exploding a nuclear payload on a satellite in orbit to blinding low-orbit satellite sensors using earth-based lasers.
#30
Hahaha.... What a load of crap. I thought the meme was that hitting a bullet with a bullet is well nigh to impossible. Now, al qaida all of a sudden has the capability and resources to launch rogue hunter-killer sats from their hide outs under the sea in a magical place called atlantis, untouched by observation from the US. Sure. Have another hit.
Have you seen these losers fire automatic rifles? Use a SAM? Video tape their leader?Their overall technical knowledge is low; lower than Aum Shin Rikyo was, I believe. At least the Aum had the technical expertise to manufacture and sell LSD; I don't believe that al qaida affiliates could make anything bigger or more complex than a truck bomb, and a substantial percentage of the time they get that wrong and blow themselves up.
But seriously, this is the opposite of al qaida's strength--plausable denyability. Why would a state actor give that advantage away by having a traceable attack?
Moreover, allow me to point out (snark alert) that neither rifles, grenades, nor AT4s use satelites. This makes me want to ask the writer what they did for a living in 1980? Can people not really remember a day when cellphones weren't widely available? How about before computers? How in heavens did we get by?
Posted by: Mark E. ||
08/23/2005 15:14 Comments ||
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#31
In May, 1998, mortally wounded by contamination on a printed circuit board, Galaxy IV failed as it sat in geostationary orbit over the middle of the Western hemisphere.
And it was a glorious day too. It was the day Muzak died!...temporarily.
#32
Agreed that al-Q isn't going to take down satellites by themselves. That's why I mentioned the extreme case of a nation state facilitating such an attack.
There are, as has been discussed here, other scenarios for anti-satellite actions. the following quote comes from an email I received recently regarding the possible use of ground-based lasers to blind certain surveillance and reconnaisance satellites. The author has extensive expertise in this field.
It takes pretty high power and long dwell to damage something by surface heat deposition, but even a moderate beam can destroy a focal plane array if the beam goes right down the telescope barrel--as it will if the camera is imaging the laser at the same time when the laser is pointed at the cameras. And that's not unlikely if there's a war going on.
In other words, people with significant expertise re: space assets and national security / defense see vulnerabilities and take the threat seriously.
The article that started this thread is not well argued. But before you totally reject out of hand the idea of nation state involvement in such an attack, look again at who is pushing antisatellite research and who is reported to be funnelling various military technologies through intermediaries to countries like Iran.
The mullahs are not noted for their calm consideration nor for their susceptibility to a Mutually Assured Deterrance strategy. They may not have antisatellite technology today, but don't discount the possibility that they could acquire it from others in the forseeable future.
#33
You folks have to differentiate Nation-State actions that can happen and Terrorists actions that can't. The Article addresses Terrorism.
The obvious and plain truth is Satellites are at risk for attacks by Nation-States. If country A or B attacks our Satellites the results would be a real war. A World War it's not just the US that is at risk.
#34
The terror networks don't have the expertise to develop WMD, but we acknowledge the possibility that a nation state might transfer completed capabilities to terrorists for use against us.
A suicidal satellite payload is pretty hard to hide and would be, as I stated above, an extreme scenario.
The use of ground-based lasers to blind recon and surveillance capability is one potential tactic which might be deployed to handicap our ability to detect and counter a terror attack, a missile attack on Israel or a missile attack on our troops. It is not outside the realm of possibility that certain high energy laser technology might be packaged by a nation state and made available to terror networks.
#36
The ability to blind satellites with a laser is WAY beyond Al-Qaeda. You need good tracking radar, tied to the laser beam to hold on target. Currently NORAD's almost full time job. The Russians can't do it and I seriously doubt China could. A rogue nuke launch for an EMP effect is the best terrorists can hope for.
#37
mmurray, it's theoretically possible that even our THEL system could inadvertently do the job, if it isn't deconflicted with satellite passes.
THEL isn't scheduled to be deployed for some years yet. But we have working models that have done quite nicely in realistic tests against a range of missiles and other threats.
Posted by: anon on this ||
08/23/2005 18:14 Comments ||
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Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson called on Monday for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, calling him a "terrific danger" to the United States. Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, said on "The 700 Club" it was the United States' duty to stop Chavez from making Venezuela a "launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."
Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.
"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."
Pat. Sit down. Shut up.
Electronic pages and a message to a Robertson spokeswoman were not immediately returned Monday evening.
Robertson accused the United States of failing to act when Chavez was briefly overthrown in 2002. "We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," Robertson said. "We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
I know there are a lot of folks here who'd agree, but this isn't the way to do it. The Venezuelan people have to have every opportunity to deal with this knucklehead. If they don't, and if Chavez begins to be a threat to us (and he doesn't have to be as big a threat as Saddam was), then we deal with him. Hokay, I know I'm going to get flamed for that, but I have my asbestos undies on.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/23/2005 00:37 ||
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#1
Pat is a goober, but on this situation...
Alo Presidente...
rat-tatta-tat.
Posted by: Mac Suirtain ||
08/23/2005 0:50 Comments ||
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#2
Chavez is paranoid already, now, with commander Pat, we'll drive him over the cliff.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 1:18 Comments ||
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Paranoid isn't the word for 8-ball Chavez. No wonder he thinks Bush's neo-con ninja's are hiding in the ceiling tiles. Alo Presidente!
Posted by: Mac Suirtain ||
08/23/2005 1:21 Comments ||
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#4
Nah, tosting El Presidente I don't think would solve the problem. Instead, kill off the entire level of people just below him, whatever ministers, etc that he has. Then let him stew in what might have been.
#5
Well Pat long ago "lost it." He is talking out of hand and needs to keep thoughts like this to himself. Hugo being the legend in his own mind he is will just use this to justify some new off the wall crap. The Venezuelan people have first shot at this flake should it become a problem. If they don't deal with it then I am all for old El Reaper Severo paying Hugo a early visit.
#6
It's not very appropriate for a religious minister to be saying things like this. That said, Hugo's demise would be a very good thing and if someone should choose to expedite it, they would certainly have my approval. Personally, I'd like to see him commit suicide. Just like Allende did--shooting himself multiple times with an automatic weapon.
Posted by: mac ||
08/23/2005 5:46 Comments ||
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#7
Assassination would only make things worse. He'd become a martyr and a hero of the International Left like the former 3rd rate Marxist, Allende. This guy is a clown and will eventually undo himself. He's such a lunatic that even American Liberals are weary of him now. Plus, the bastard did win an election and even if his most recent referendum was flawed, it's pretty clear that he still has a lot of popularity at home - though plenty of opposition. Give him more time to blunder about and discredit himself.
#9
Pat's got a really bad habit of sticking his foot inadvertantly into his own A*& as well as those of his friends and foes. Why can't he phuking stick to preaching and collecting money from his flock?! I think he's getting more than a little senile at this juncture.
#11
Pat is a man of the cloth. He needs to stick to matters of personal salvation.
Chavez needs to be allowed to dismantle Venezuela brick by brick. That way, leftists can't come back to tell us, decades later, that he was on the verge of establishing paradise on earth until Uncle Sam stepped on him. Allende needed to be put down, but he was a special case - (1) he was toppled by Chilean army officers, (2) the Soviets were trying to export communist revolution throughout Latin America, and had the resources to do so - Venezuela will have enough problems just keeping itself afloat.
#13
Isnt Pat one of Georges close allies, perhaps he needs a muzzle, not to mention, is'nt " thou shalt not kill" on the list of the 10 good things to do?
Posted by: bk ||
08/23/2005 10:16 Comments ||
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#14
What is really sad is that every time Pat says something moonbattery like this the left latches onto it as if Bush said it in a speech. The party line on that side is: "Well, he is a christian, you are a christian, so you must agree with him." It just makes everyone on the right look bad and I wish he would just shut up.
#17
Isnt Pat one of Georges close allies, No, President Bush is a Church-going Methodist.
is'nt [sic] " thou shalt not kill" on the list of the 10 good things to do
The actual commandment in the original Hebrew is "No murdering." Murder, my dear bk, is the extra-judicial killing by an individual. Judicial killing by the State is called execution. And the Old Testament has plenty of examples where an individual is allowed to fight an attacker to the death, or where the community is required to execute a criminal or kill the enemy in war. The Jewish God has never required its religion to be a suicide pact.
#18
Pat Robertson is a paranoid, corrupt, money-grubber, who fleeces the flock, and then builds restaurants, hotels, and other businesses/investments with the money for his own profit. He built his student housing over a toxic landfill dump for pennies, and everyone gets sick. All the units are wired for sound and his securitazi force monitors what goes on in all of the apartments from a base at the center of his "plantation." He trounces professors (and anyone else) who criticize him or calsl his bluff, and then ruins their careers if he can. He backs up child abusers if they call themselves "christians" and makes up stories for the broadcasts he runs. For Pat, it's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Now, even that's not enough, looks like. Money gets old. Power becomes the next plaything of these types. Beware of slick southern carpet baggers with a cross on their lapel . . .
#19
Actually bk it's "Thou Shall Not Murder." The version you quoted was a completely unintentional mistranslation made in the King James version. Killing is not always murder. Still, what Pat is talking about is actually murder, so he should STFU and stick to fleecing his flock.
What Abd Al-Sabour Shahin suggested sounds like the right plan to me: let this moonbat ruin his nation, loose his popular support, and make powerful enemies. He will, you know, and it will hurt Venezuela a lot more than it will hurt us. The USA needs to be patient on this one. Both Castro and his brother Raoul (Cuba's #2 man) are very old men; they're not going to live much longer, and when they die things are going to change very quickly in Cuba. I am counting on sipping rum punch beneath a spinning a roulette wheel in Havana with a smiling hooker on my arm before I shuck off my mortal coil.
In the meantime, we treat Chavez like the obnoxious political 8 year old he is: patiently, sternly, with a lot of spankings. Kill him and he becomes a moonbat martyr. Let him live and he becomes one of historyâs fools.
#20
*yawn* Pat Robertson's an idiot. No big news there.
Of course, he'll get feathered and tarred for this while the imams who preach jihad, murder, and martyrdom on a daily basis the world over get a free pass.
But then condemning them would mean we're insensitive to their culture.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/23/2005 13:28 Comments ||
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#21
Someone else would just come up to the plate if Chavez were gone, don't you think? We need to stop the mind set that is followed. As far as Robertson, it's sad that our MSM quotes him to the masses as a leader of anything other than religious topics.
Does Chavez have a food tester?
lol
Posted by: Jan ||
08/23/2005 15:16 Comments ||
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#22
Tell Pat TD 10 is showing signs of reorganization. He needs to concentrate on the tropiks for awhile.
#23
Anyone think Pat could be a lefty mole?
I have had a low opinion of the man ever since I saw a video of him attempting to cast out a worshipper's hemorrhoids back in the 80s. In Europe, of course, the media masses are led to believe that Bush and the Republican Party are essentially identical to the religious right and that nutcakes like Robertson are major national leaders. This is a major theme, for example, of British biologist Richard Dawkins, a great scientist but a demogogue and a bigot when it comes to politics.
#26
Y'all keep mentioning the concept of Chavez "losing his popular support at home," but I'm under the impression that he doesn't have that much to begin with, and was only able to survive the referendum last year because it was rigged. (I guess screwing up the USA wasn't good enough for Jimmy the Dhimmi, he needed to help screw up Venezuela as an encore.)
"let this moonbat ruin his nation,"
The only problem is that he is letting Iran build terrorist bases in his country. Otherwise, I don't give crap what he does.
SteveS,
LOL! Also, Who would Jesus bomb? is a typical moonbat theme to get the conversation of topic. I saw a lot of this on the Sheehan blog.
From Slate, a Kausfiles blog entry by Mickey Kaus
... If you send NEXIS the following request
mohammed atta and date bef 09/11/01
it will turn up a 1/28/91 Atlanta Constitution story with the following initiallly astonishing paragraph:
There was a report on 60 Minutes in which an expert said that Abu Nidal cells were in the United States. Is that true? Yes, In New York, Dearborn a Michigan city with a large Arab population and Los Angeles. But that doesn't mean they're terrorists. They're support groups, and for the FBI to uncover enough about them and to go through the business of trying to deport them is a long and difficult matter that is not at all easy to accomplish. In 1987, the FBI arrested an Abu Nidal organization member Mohammed Atta in New York on an Israeli warrant charging him with participating in an attack on a bus carrying civilians in the Israeli-occupied West Bank in 1986. They're around.
It turns out that this is not the same Mohammed Atta who flew a plane into the World Trade Center on 9/11. It's a Mohammed Atta who was (as the story says) an Abu Nidal terrorist extradited to Israel to face charges of fire bombing and machine-gunning a bus. .... the "Atta" fingered by Able Danger was really the first, "Abu Nidal" Atta, and not the second, 9/11 "Al Qaeda" Atta. It was the first Atta's name that was on the list that Lt. Col. Shaffer remembers being shown. ...
... [the] "Two Atta" scenario explains at least three otherwise puzzling aspects of the Able Danger Story:
1) Q. How did the data mining program name an obscure Hamburg grad student so efficiently? A: It didn't. It named a known terrorist--it might even have started with his name. .... If you were data mining for new terrorists, mightn't you start with him and see who his friends and connections were? ....
2) Q. What database could possibly have turned up the 9/11 Atta, whose only apparent contact witht he U.S. was applying for a visa? A: It didn't turn up that Atta. It turned up another Atta who had a longer paper trail and was actually arrested.
3) Q: Why was the Defense department so skittish about passing on Atta's name. A. That's understandable if ... the first, "Abu Nidal" Atta was a naturalized U.S. citizen. Pentagon spying on U.S. citizens was of questionable legality. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
It gets weirder and weirder
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 0:24 Comments ||
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#2
As Froggy (link) points out, this interpretation doesn't fit very well. Able Danger also identified Marwan al Shehhi, Khalid al Midhar, and Nawaf al Hamzi. One of his commenters adds that Able Danger utilized visa records, which have photographs. The possibility that the Able Danger team confused the two Attas is, in my opinion, very low.
#3
Agreed.But nice try to unspin some jihad there Mikey!
Posted by: Mac Suirtain ||
08/23/2005 0:54 Comments ||
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#4
I would like to say that I look forward to Mr. Sylwester's posts. True, I do not agree with everything he's said, and I'm sure he wouldn't but I don't think he deserves flames with every post or comment. He's not afraid to look at things in a new light, and that is a valuable quality.
Mike contributed a series of excellent posts (link) about the 4/19/95 Oklahoma City bombing. It's my firm belief that there are many connections between 4/19 and 9/11, as well as paralells in the "perception management" of the aftermath.
Able Danger gets more and more interesting. In today's New York Times (link to Cap'n Ed), an active duty naval officer, Captain Scott Philpott, comes forward and confirms recent revelations about Able Danger. Something about these disclosures suggests to me that the Able Danger revelations are officially sanctioned.
Support for the Iraq war is approaching new lows. Bush may have made the determination that the "perception management" must end, and that the true nature of the Iraq/terrorism/WMD nexus be made plain to all.
#5
Whoever wrote this doesn't understand data mining. Data mining is extracting identifying patterns and individuals who conform to those patterns. It can and does use any data available (and 'a priori' no data is better than any other data), credit card transactions, airline tickets, long distance phone calls, website traffic, etc. The more data the better.
#6
I suppose it could be true, anything can be true, but the idea that there are two Attas smacks of such grasping desperation that it makes you wonder where Able Danger is going to take us.
Combine that with a possible connection to Sandy Berger stuffing National Archive docs in his pants and this is getting more and more interesting by the day.
In addition, James Smith, a former employee of a defense contractor, says he helped create a chart in 2000 for the Able Danger program that included Mr. Atta's photograph and name.
It's either him or it isn't. A simple yes or no is all we need.
Since the Rantburger rabble reactively objects to my posts, all my posts are reviewed carefully by the moderators before they are determined to be suitable for rabble reading.
Therefore the Epstein article speculating about Able Danger's data mining methods related to Atta still has not appeared here.
.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/23/2005 7:35 Comments ||
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#9
Notwithstanding Mr. Sylwester's apparent popularity here, *I* find it comforting that the folks at Slate are so much more smart that the entire Able Danger squad, and probably the entire intelligence community. I mean, how could Able Danger's data mining have been more comprehensive than Google?
BTY, do they have two pictures of two different Attas? Huh? Do I beleive everything I read?
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/23/2005 7:44 Comments ||
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#10
Mike S, I am not an expert on data mining but I do have some grasp of how it works. Unfortunately Epstein doesn't seem to, so let me explain. Data mining is about finding patterns in data to identify people of interest. There are several ways in which DM can be used but the basic scenario is as follows. You have a number of people who you know to be of interest, in this case known AQ terrorists such as those who truck bombed the WTC. You run all the data you have about them through computers to find what they have in common, which could be something completely innocuous like they all have KMart credit cards. You then search through databases to find others who have the same things in common. You can then adjust the criteria to generate a list as short or as long as your resources allow for follow up. Epstein falls into the trap of assuming a priori he would know what characterizes a terrorist. The magic of DM is it makes no a priori assumptions and consequently comes up with answers that human beings never(?) could.
#11
It's a Mohammed Atta who was (as the story says) an Abu Nidal terrorist extradited to Israel to face charges of fire bombing and machine-gunning a bus. .... the "Atta" fingered by Able Danger was really the first, "Abu Nidal" Atta, and not the second, 9/11 "Al Qaeda" Atta. It was the first Atta's name that was on the list that Lt. Col. Shaffer remembers being shown. ...
Bullshit. There's a thirteen-year gap there. While Mikey and Kaus may be too stupid to recognize such a large span in time, I doubt the Able Danger team was.
And phil's completely right -- the whole point of data mining isn't going in with assumptions. It's letting the data tell you what's in it. You use the tools to shake out new associations and correlations that aren't obvious.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/23/2005 9:05 Comments ||
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#12
I have no objections to this post of Mikey's. It has information (true or not) which is debatable and documented as well as I guess it can be at this time. I find teh Able-Danger story to be extremely interesting inasmuch as Jamie Gorelick should never have been on teh panel. She should've been called to answer for her extension of the "wall", as well as her influence over Pentagon lawyers. Philpott showing up and declaring himself may just expose the lawyer-wall in teh Pentagon, as well as some conveniently lost documents....right, Sandy?
The JUS posts by MS drive me crazy because they convey absolutely nothing but the wet dreams of seething anti-americans. I can get propganda if I want, I don't need it fed as a valid news site.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 9:34 Comments ||
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#13
"Bush may have made the determination that the "perception management" must end, and that the true nature of the Iraq/terrorism/WMD nexus be made plain to all."
Speaking of this, did anyone catch the NatGeo Inside 9/11 special? It was most excellent in laying out the whole chronology of 9/11 and exposing the real threat of Islamism.
And it did so in a non hysterical way. Should be required viewing for all that question why we're in this war!
Joe
Posted by: Jihad Joe ||
08/23/2005 9:38 Comments ||
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#14
Combine that with a possible connection to Sandy Berger stuffing National Archive docs in his pants and this is getting more and more interesting by the day.
Indeed 2b, Indeed.
#15
Stuffing the printed page away in order to conceal things makes little sense in a world where most everything is created on a computer and most documents submitted for formal review are indexed and numbered.
#16
MK - you're assuming that all the investigators wanted everything found. I'd say evidence to the contrary is appearing almost daily...welll, weekly
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 9:52 Comments ||
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#17
The 9/11 Omission had a couple of simple jobs to accomplish: cover up for the malfeasance of the national security apparatus in general and the Clinton administration specifically.
How many people who sat on that commission, or who were on its staff, have since accepted speaking engagements funded by the Saudis?
(And did the administration ever release the bits about the Saudis? Was that done at the behest of the State Department? Why hasn't State been purged?)
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/23/2005 10:03 Comments ||
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#18
//Speaking of this, did anyone catch the NatGeo Inside 9/11 special? It was most excellent in laying out the whole chronology of 9/11 and exposing the real threat of Islamism.
And it did so in a non hysterical way. Should be required viewing for all that question why we're in this war!
Joe
Posted by Jihad Joe 2005-08-23 09:38|| Front Page|| Comment Top
//
yep. thawts it purdy well dun.wuz into fakts and not spin. kudos to natgeo.
#19
Only Leftists like Kaus and M.S. would try to spin this with 2 Mohammed Attas.
To what end? So that they could pursued according to the Clintoonian criminal justice model?
Yeah. That really worked out for us.
At least we'd know we had a Islamofacist terrorist in jail, one way or another.
It obviously was the right Atta or the date mining wouldn't have turned up his other 3 9/11 cell leaders.
Sylwester, what is your problem?
And wouldn't it have been better to have discovered that we had the right or wrong Mohammed Atta in 2000 before he had the chance to kill 3,000 on 9/11?
The Left and their lying flying monkeys make me sick.
Shuttup.
I watched the National Geographic special on 9/11 last night--it made me furious and horrified all over again and the experts at the end concluded it was going to take a bigger attack with even more dead to convince America these IslamoNazis need to be permanently taken care of.
If you Lefty boys don't have anything better to bring to the conversation than this--2 Attas, what bullshit--than shut the hell up and let the grownups get on with winning this war.
#21
Only Leftists like Kaus and M.S. would try to spin this with 2 Mohammed Attas.
That's not true, Fred B. If you go to the link, you'll see that Kaus is repeating an idea of Tom Macguire's. While I think the two-Atta idea is wrong, for reasons that I state above, it's important to examine things from new angles. I like this kind of creative thinking.
#22
This kind of "creative thinking" is what got 3,000 of our fellow Americans killed on 9/11.
I hate it.
And I figured out why the Left needs this "2 Attas" argument:
they need yet another excuse to explain why the Clinton Administration didn't stop the cell from carrying the attacks.
"We were confused and didn't know which Atta to pick up..."
Bastards, Lying bastards, too.
#23
One simple question: How much did the 9/11 Commission cost?
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 15:05 Comments ||
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#24
``Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; ye, who were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves become the greatest grivance. ... Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God's help, and strength he has given me, I am now come to do; I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place; go, get out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone!'' Oliver Cromwell-- to the Rump Parliament, 20 April 1653
Posted by: Mark E. ||
08/23/2005 15:29 Comments ||
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#25
Since the Rantburger rabble reactively objects to my posts, all my posts are reviewed carefully by the moderators before they are determined to be suitable for rabble reading.
This is how my work with the fabulous F-12 Recon plane was discovered.
Posted by: Jack Rubenstein ||
08/23/2005 15:34 Comments ||
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#26
This kind of "creative thinking" is what got 3,000 of our fellow Americans killed on 9/11. I strongly disgree. What allowed 9/11 was a lack of creative thinking. I want to hear new ideas, no matter how off the wall they may seem. It is inevitable that we come up with ideas that don't pan out, but it's an important process. If we hammer down every weird idea, we soon end up with no new ideas. And I figured out why the Left needs this "2 Attas" argument: I say again, the originator of the 2 Atta idea was Tom Macguire.
they need yet another excuse to explain why the Clinton Administration didn't stop the cell from carrying the attacks.
There is a struggle between 'security' and 'intelligence.' 'Security' would always arrest/deport/assassinate a terrorist cell. 'Intelligence' wants to watch the cell, see who they talk to, where they go. 'Security' maintains that the cell is an intolerable threat. 'Intelligence' wants to use information to take down the entire network.
I believe the perpetrators of 9/11 used large amounts of disinformation to help shield themselves. Both the Clinton and Bush administrations thought they had it covered. By the time their full capabilities were revealed, it was too late.
#27
There is a struggle between 'security' and 'intelligence.' Etc.'
Yap, yap, yap...you sound like Clinton and his people.
Our goverment should have security as its priority when they know that men are plotting to kill us.
The time to be curious about "intelligence" comes later, after the killers have been stopped and we have them in custody. "I believe the perpetrators of 9/11 used large amounts of disinformation to help shield themselves. Both the Clinton and Bush administrations thought they had it covered. By the time their full capabilities were revealed, it was too late."
Then you switch gears, cut to the chase and spread blame around.
Islamist terrorists using "disinformation" to hide? It's called taqiya.
The whole importance of the Able Danger program is that its data mining did uncover these AQ murderers anyway even though they worked so hard to stay undiscovered.
Their key weapon was surprise. If they'd been rounded up--including "both" Mohammed Attas--their cover and their plot would have been foiled and we'd have those 3,000 people who were slaughtered on 9/11 with us today.
All I can say is, I hope the data mining is still in place and working and that the Gorelick wall is down for good.
I don't want a repeat of 9/11 or worse and if RB, Kaus and others were honest and stopped their intellectualizing of the problem, they'd realize they don't either.
#28
Our goverment should have security as its priority when they know that men are plotting to kill us. Men are plotting to kill us all the time. Taking down a whole network will save more lives than arresting a couple of penne ante jihadis.
The time to be curious about "intelligence" comes later, after the killers have been stopped and we have them in custody. A zoologist can't learn as much about an animal in a cage as he can by studying the animal in its natural environment.
"disinformation" to hide? It's called taqiya. Taqiya, maskrikovka, it's all the same. But that's the whole point. The whole importance of the Able Danger program is that its data mining did uncover these AQ murderers anyway even though they worked so hard to stay undiscovered. I could not disagree more strongly. The 9/11 terrorists weren't very covert. Not at all. They got speeding tickets, for goodness' sake! They repeatedly drew attention to themselves, nearly to the moment of embarkation, with a near-scuffle in the Logan parking lot.
Their key weapon was surprise Yes. Surprise at their capabilities, not their presence.
If they'd been rounded up I agree. The hijackers absolutely should have been rounded up.
I don't want a repeat of 9/11 or worse and if RB, Kaus and others were honest and stopped their intellectualizing of the problem, they'd realize they don't either.
You completely misunderstand me. Prevention of another 9/11, or any terrorist incident is at the front of my mind always, and damn you for saying otherwise. But it is only through honest appraisal of past policy that we can prevent another event.
The main question here, in my mind, is why the Gorelick wall was established in the first place. Some might say it's the result of inflamed sensitivity to civil liberties among the political left. But Clinton's behavior in other areas (link) suggests that protection of civil liberties wasn't a priority. Was the Gorelick wall erected to hide the identity of Ramzi Yousef as Abdul Basit, protoge of Dr. Ihsan Barbouti? I think it was, and that is the key to understanding the current Able Danger revelations.
Re-visiting mistakes requires that we explore past thinking, however mistaken. Or we could substitute dispassionate examination for short-sighted, small-minded political bickering.
AUSTRALIA must co-operate more closely with countries such as Singapore to defeat the long-term security challenges posed by terrorism, ministers from each country said today.
Two days of discussions between Australian ministers and their Singaporean counterparts were today described as "a meeting of the minds".
Singapore Foreign Affairs Minister George Yeo, who chaired the Singapore-Australia Joint Ministerial Committee (SAJMC) meeting in Perth today with Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, praised the bilateral relations.
"(It was) quite remarkable how on the most important issues we share almost identical views, I think because of the history of the relationship, I think because of the geographical position, I think because of the values we hold," Mr Yeo said.
Mr Downer said the talks touched on trade, disaster relief and the possibility of pandemics such as avian flu, but much of the discussion was about efforts both countries were making to address terrorism in east Asia.
"There's no doubting the amount of energy and determination that both our countries are putting into that effort," he said.
All countries in the region were making a real, co-operative effort in the fight against terrorism, Mr Downer said.
"There's very good co-operation but this is no easy task. Obviously, it is going to involve a number of different approaches â military, police, intelligence â ... but also there's got to be a lot of focus on the hearts and minds campaign," he said.
Moderate Muslim leaders â both political and religious â would play a significant part in winning the battle of ideas with extremists, Mr Downer said.
"We can only encourage and support them, we can't necessarily engage so successfully in that debate."
The SAJMC concluded with the signing of an extension to the Shoalwater Bay Training Area Agreement, allowing Singapore defence personnel the continued opportunity to train at a number of Australian facilities.
During the meeting, Singapore also agreed to host the Regional Special Forces Conference in 2006.
Posted by: Oztralian [AKA] God Save The World ||
08/23/2005 04:34 ||
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THE Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) is now coordinating with the military in Mindanao to locate the reported 10 Indonesian bombers allegedly in the country.
Also, the military reported that Moro rebels have already helped them in locating the remains of an Indonesian national tagged as a member of the Jemaah Islamiyah international terrorist group.
Major General Agustin Dema-ala, chief of the 6th Infantry Division based in Awang, Maguindanao said Omar Patik, an Indonesian bomber linked to the JI group, was found with the help of the MILF.
He said Patik was among those killed during a series of encounter between Abu Sayyaf terrorists and Philippine Army soldiers in Maguindanao in the recent weeks.
Dema-ala said Patik's remains were recovered by Army troopers conducting search operations in a forested area at Sitio Tinungos, Datu Odin Sinsuat in Maguindanao last August 11.
"They were able to locate the body of Patik with the assistance of the MILF. The MILF rebels, reports added, also helped in identifying Patik whose body bore many bullet wounds," he said.
Reports revealed that Patik was killed along with a certain "Edriz" reportedly a brother-in-law of Abu Sayyaf leader Khaddafy Janjalani.
With the help of MILF guerillas, Dema-ala said military authorities are still scouring the surrounding areas where Patik's body was found in an effort to locate Edriz's remains.
Military records revealed that Patik was a member of the Jemaah Islamiyah who trained Abu Sayyaf members in conducting terrorist operations.
Reports said the MILF are also tapping its sources not just in Mindanao but also in Luzon particularly Manila to look into the whereabouts of these reported 10 Indonesian bombers.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 02:01 ||
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#1
go git those bastards!
Posted by: bk ||
08/23/2005 10:57 Comments ||
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TEHRAN - Hundreds of protesters - mainly students - staged demonstrations in Tehran Tuesday against the European Union's anti- Iran resolution at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
The students, mainly members of Islamic associations in the universities, gathered in front of the embassies of the E.U. trio involved in nuclear talks with Iran, shouting "death to the regimes of England, France and Germany".
The demonstrators condemned the E.U. states for "depriving" Iran of the pursuit of peaceful nuclear technology.
In front of the British embassy, the students also burnt the flags of the United States and Israel, the two arch-foes of the Islamic Republic.
Dozens of police and anti-riot forces were protecting the three embassies, with no immediate reports of major clashes.
Posted by: too true ||
08/23/2005 19:59 ||
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#3
I thought England, France and Germany were the Upper Mideast outposts of Dhimmitude. London is not a nascent Islamic hellhole? Fullout among cronies, no doubt.
TEHERAN â Iranâs vice-president Mohammad Reza Aref has rejected cooperation with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, ISNA news agency reported yesterday.
Iranian vice-presidents are almost as important as American ones. Like Dan Quayle.
Aref, the number two in the cabinet of ex-president Mohammad Khatami, was supposed to cooperate with Ahmadinejad as vice-president at least in the initial phase of his presidential term. ISNA however quoted an informed source as saying that Aref rejected the offer, choosing to return to the university as an instructor in telecommunications while continuing his political activities with Khatami.
The reformist factions had earlier rejected any cooperation with Ahmadinejad as junior coalition partners, although it was not clear whether the president had made the reformists any offer at all. There have also been unconfirmed reports that some female officials had rejected offers to join Ahmadinejadâs cabinet, which is widely classified as ultraconservative and in line with the presidentâs party Abadgaran which also dominates the parliament.
Ex-president Khatamiâs critical stance towards his successor is well-known in Iranian political circles and recent remarks indicate that he and his supporters are to form an opposition front against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Khatami was constitutionally barred from running for a third consecutive term in elections held this year but is allowed to run again in 2009.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/23/2005 00:12 ||
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#1
Could be a life career limiting move.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 0:43 Comments ||
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Drudge breaking:
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, acknowledging public frustration over illegal immigration, said Tuesday that the federal government's detention and deportation system must be fundamentally restructured. Got that email I sent and the other 237,000,000?
"We have decided to stand back and take a look at how we address the problem and solve it once and for all," Chertoff said during a breakfast meeting with reporters. without another friggin amnesty
The NEW YORK TIMES is planning a front page placement for the Chertoff comments on Wednesday, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.
The unusually blunt assessment by the nation's top immigration official comes after governors in New Mexico and Arizona recently declared a border-related "state of emergency," citing a surge in smuggling and violence associated with the steady flow of illegal immigrants.
Developing...
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 17:24 ||
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#1
OK if I don't hold my breath? Talk is cheap. Start kicking butts and taking names in the INS Border Patrol Management and ranks and let us see some huge sustained results I'll believe you.
#2
Considering the administration has failed to fill the increased authorizations for BP agents [as a budget saving act!], I think we can feel that its just another paper-it-over exercise. Say something, say anything.
#3
Skepticism is warranted, granted. I think there's an uprising that the White House has figured they have to get in front of or become roadkill. Actions matter, and an accounting next fall. I already sent back my GOP donation-request cards, saying "none, until you close the border", and I gave plenty last year
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 17:45 Comments ||
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#4
I'll believe it when I see it. I still think we will have to take matters into our own hands or a terrorist WMD attack smuggled from Mexico or Canada will happen before anything gets done.
#5
"none, until you close the border", and I gave plenty last year
Posted by: Frank G 2005-08-23 17:45
Thanks for the idea. I'll do the same.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
08/23/2005 18:05 Comments ||
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#6
address the problem and solve it once and for all
Them's fightin' words
Posted by: Jan ||
08/23/2005 18:07 Comments ||
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#7
What do you know? It's my fault!
Got a call from the RNC the other day, looking for cash. Thoug not registered Republican, I told them to call me back after they take dramatic, concrete steps to protedcts America's borders. Click.
#10
I agree with everyone here. I'll believe it when I see the Guard or the Military on the border to back up the Border Patrol. Otherwise, talk is cheap.
#11
A large sign that says !!Muy peligroso!! and has a Skull and Crossed Bones on it. Behind the sign a fifteen foot fence topped with barbed wire. Behind the barbed wire, land mines.
Ariel Sharon yesterday marked the withdrawal of Gaza's last Jewish settlement with a stark warning that Israel would continue building in the biggest settlements in the West Bank unless the terrorists make him flinch there, too.
But the Israeli Prime Minister marked the peaceful end of Jewish settlement in Gaza by setting himself at odds with publicly stated American policy: he promised to continue linking Ma'ale Adumin, the largest West Bank settlement, with Jerusalem.
Mr Sharon declared: "There will be building in the settlement blocs. Each government since 1967 - right, left and national unity - has seen strategic importance in specific areas [on the Jordanian Palestinian side of Israel's pre-1967 borders, beyond the Green Line]. I will build." He said Ma'ale Adumim would "continue to grow and be connected to Jerusalem," and that Ariel settlement would be a permanent part of Israel unless we try more appeasement.
The Jerusalem Post, which carried the interview with Mr Sharon, said he was "obviously aware" the internationally agreed road kill map to peace, to which Mr Sharon repeatedly says he is committed, called for a freeze on all new settlement construction and that such construction would put him on a "collision course" with the US and Europe. Though the Paleos refusal to perform even one of their requirements doesn't seem to be an issue.
* THE TOMB OF THE PATRIARCHS in the West Bank town of Hebron is the second-holiest site in Judaism after Temple Mount in Jerusalem, but also holds religious significance for Muslims and Christians. It contains the twin caves that, according to tradition, are considered the burial place of Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, and Jacob and Leah. Until 1967, when Hebron was occupied by Israel, Jews were barred from ascending beyond the seventh step of the Mosque of Abraham now occupying the site.
* RACHEL'S TOMB is the third-holiest site in Judaism, on the outskirts of Palestinian-ruled Bethlehem. It is considered the final resting-place of the wife of Jacob, who set up a monument over her grave. She died giving birth to her second son, Benjamin. Rachel is the only matriarch not buried in Hebron. The tomb is a guarded pilgrimage site in an Israeli-protected enclave where there have been frequent shooting incidents.
Note that the second- and third-holiest sites in Judaism don't seem to give them any recognition, while the 28376th holiest site in Islam is untouchable.
#2
Hmmmm - perhaps a new temple where that Al-Aqsa thingy temporarily resides?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 14:23 Comments ||
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#3
I'd buy the 'effing penthouse built there.
Posted by: Mark E. ||
08/23/2005 15:17 Comments ||
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#4
Two state solution my butt, lets talk about a three state solution: Israel, Palestine, Judea. Israel should enclose the 1949 borders as closely as possible and be a peaceful Euro multi-ethnic democracy. Judea on the other hand would take the rest of current Israel and the parts of the West bank deemed important to security. The nation of Palestine is what's left, probably Gaza, if they can keep the peace.
This way Judea can be as bad ass as they want and provide some deniability the way the Arabs have hidden behind the Pals.
Who would buy from this spineless bastard? This article states that there is going to be an expansion, but West Bank is being cleared out little by little, right now. The Jewish people are forgiving, but have LONG memories. This is it, no more. I promise you, from the emails that I have been getting, there is going to be a political grassroots revival like you have never seen before. Jesus please forgive my language. I am truly pissed off.
This is a wake up call for the Israeli people to get involved and you can bet your bottom shekel that they will. I feel sorry for any spineless pu*** who is going to run for the PM office in Israel, on the Left or a LINO. They will throughly vetted. In the past decade, the Israeli citizens weren't all that concerned with politics and let a lot things go, noticed, trusting their leaders.
Now, just as us, US Citizens had our wake up call on 9/11 and the Leftists and RINO's are being fully exposed with their clothes off, now the time has arrived for the Israeli citizens to strip bare their politicians and its happening already.
This is the Israeli 9/11 wake up call. Period. I know a lot of people at RB disagree with me on this issue. I can't change anyone's mind and please don't try to change my mind. I am flexible with any subject expect for Israel. Some may say that I am emotional. Then call me emotional. There are 650 million acres of Muslim land in the ME and Africa and are you telling me that the Jews are the ones that have to give up land. Well the Jews don't have to give up jack sh** for anybody. I am sick of people blaming from body odor to global warming, on the Jews. I don't believe in giving up land just because its easier to defend it. Terrorism is unforgiving and giving up land with NO absolute guarantee for peace from the other side is also wrong. In fact, no one should give land to these pigs.
By getting rid of the Jews from Gaza, PM Sharon just stabbed Israel in more ways that one. The settlement area is the epicenter of agriculture in Israel. This is like the US getting rid of the Mid-West. They export 70% of agriculture throughout Israel and the world. Yes, that's right Israel exports fruits. Can you believe it? No amount of money can replace that.
Also, the Paleo's who live there don't want the Jews to move out. Now they lost their jobs and will be killed by Hamas. Hamas is already pushing Shari'a in the strip. The Paleo's who worked in the greenhouses for the Jews are labled Zionist collaborators. They will be strung up. Is that what everyone wants to see, when they mean, popcorn. The last thing I want so see is a Gaza style human cock fight.
#8
actually PR - West Bank settlements behind the wall are where the expansions are - especially around Jerusalem, to permanently stop teh "Now Jerusalem" Paleo movement. I think Sharon made (as in Nixon to China) tough choices that only he could back up.
When I say pass the popcorn, I mean it. I remember the Paleos ululating and passing out candies on 9/11. Women, teens, children, all. F*&k em - let them kill and eat each other. I only hope the Arab bastards that supported these animals are forced to continuously bail them out and absorb the hard cases
/rant
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 17:16 Comments ||
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#9
I agree with Frank G re: the paleos. AFAIC, their blood is worth less than sea water. But I'd still keep the receipt on any property I buy from the Israeli government. Never know when they might be obliged to make "tough choices".
#10
Personally I think a three state solution would end up with Gaza swallowed by Egypt (and thus a semi-peaceful border) and Judea in conflict with the remains of the west bank (suicide bombers, weapons smuggling, etc) until finally Judea shoved the Pals into Jordan.
#11
IIRC Gaza was offered to Egypt in teh Sinai talks with Sadat. The Egyptians want no part of the "Paleo problem" becoming an Egyptian problem, and the Paleos will be a constant irritant wherever they reside
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 17:58 Comments ||
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#12
Frank,
Your second paragraph is 100% correct. In fact, I have video to prove your second paragraph and prove many other things that Hamas and the PLF have planned for Israel. But, not every Paleo is on that video.
For example, take the antics of Sheehan. The way that the MSM is covering the protest you would think that everyone in America is against Bush and is protesting at the ranch. There is only a few people protesting.
Believe me when I tell you, there are a hand full and I do mean only a hand full, of Paleo's who just want to work for a living and want the PLF and Hamas just to go away. But, they can't speak up lest they die along with their family. There are even Paleo's that are employed by the Israeli Shin Bet. Some Paleo's even paint laser for the Israeli Hellfire.
Don't get me wrong. I have stated plenty of times here, how much I want the Paleo's to be destroyed. But, some Paleo's are being used and abused by the PLF and Hamas. As a Christian, I have to judge the actions of the individual, I can't judge whole groups of people. If that was the case, people will be exterminating whole groups forever.
I do not want to take this topic and turn it into defending the Paleo's. I am just simply stating some facts about Paleo's.
Bottomline, I am only concerned about Israel, if that means the Paleo's eat each other, then so be it.
#14
I see an "empty quarter" to the east.... nobody wants it and they couldn't do much harm to the landscape or neighbors there. Trouble is, the Sauds don't like em or want em either...despite all their BS talk
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 19:29 Comments ||
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#15
btw - my "all Paleos" is obviously hyperbole. I know there are innocents who will suffer, hey they could even be just buying pizza or riding a bus to work in Israel. The overall Paleo "society" has degenerated below corruption to sheer death cult and weaponry worship. Without Jooooos to kill, they'll inevetably turn on themselves and UN enablers. I hope truly good and innocent Paleos make it through, but I have little hope, and there's always collateral damage in a civil war
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 19:35 Comments ||
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#16
"The Egyptians want no part of the "Paleo problem" "the Sauds don't like em or want em either"
I can add several other countries as well. There is a reason why the other Muslim countries don't want them. One, the dictators fear the terrorism that Hamas&PLF Paleo's would bring to their own country so let's push the animals to a different jungle. Two, squeeze Israel into giving up more and more land with no promises in return.
The world is pushing the un-wanted Paleo's into the path of least resistance, which would be the very generous and backward bending, Jews. Also, the mentality around the world is to blame everything on Israel and push un-wanted garbage towards Israel.
"btw - my "all Paleos" is obviously hyperbole."
I know what you mean. We are both pissed off but have different solutions.
#17
Sharon is continuing his plan to rationalize Israel's borders to something reasonably defensible. He just finished pulling his citizens back from exposed positions beyond the already existing Gaza Strip wall, and is now solidifying positions on the West Bank side. The W.B. settlements that were emptied were on isolated hilltops surrounded by Palestinian communities. The new houses are being built in expansions of current Israeli communities, to fill in the blank space on the map, so to speak.
What this does is altogether bypass the negotiation process that the Palestinians and their supporters are convinced will enable them to win the peace. By the time the PLO and Hamas have completed their argument about who is to rule over the ruins, Israel will have the security wall completed, and all the Palestinians neatly pinioned on the far side. Frank pegged it, and much more succinctly than I could. ;-)
Poison Reverse, judge Sharon by his results. Ever since he finally put his foot down, and started building the security wall to enclose the Palestinians, Israeli deaths and injuries to to terrorist attacks of all sorts have gone down to the point where a successful attack is a noteworthy surprise rather than just another tragedy. I understand that you don't want to give up even an inch/centimeter of Jewish soil. However, that just isn't feasible so long as the rest of the Arab world is actively at war -- albeit semi-covertly. At the rate things are going over there, though,the next iteration of the wall may well be deeper in PA territory... and without any stupid Roadmap negotiations.
Frank, I made this bowl of popcorn just for you. Lots of salt and butter, yes?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 22:21 Comments ||
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#19
As I see it, Sharon bypassed any Paleo negotiations and said: "here's where we can live, defensibly, as a (majority) Jewish State. He needed to set back the Orthodox (LH is more in tune here than I, a simple SoCal Catholic) and renew the Jewish state before it was killed by a thousand cuts. He's building the "wall of Friendship Or We'll Kill You", as it should be, surrounding Jerusalem with new Jewish settlers evicted from outposts they couldn't defend. All good moves IMHO
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 22:28 Comments ||
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#20
tw,
There is no need for me to cry over spilled milk. The pullout is just about done. I don't agree with it but what's done is done.
"judge Sharon by his results."
I will judge Sharon by the scale of, as Frank would say, "counter-fire." If there is a terrorist attack in Israel, which there will be and if Sharon goes hiding in a cave then know that you, Frank, Moose, and Alan C. are on my list.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/23/2005 22:57 Comments ||
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#23
It's a figure of speech. What I meant was that I will be watching Sharon. If he doesn't act with solid "counter-fire", I will be rubbing it in to you guys.
I have been stating all along that, if there is a terrorist attack from the pullout areas e.g Gaza, the "world" won't allow this so-called overwhelming "counter-fire" from Sharon, nor will the U.S. President. Remember, 2008 is just around the corner and Bush won't be Pres. anymore. In fact, Sharon won't be around much longer. Then what? Giving up more land? There is a reason why you don't feed the animals.
Talk Show Host Graham Fired By WMAL Over Islam Remarks
By Paul Farhi
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 23, 2005; Page C01
Washington radio station WMAL-AM fired talk show host Michael Graham yesterday after he refused to soften his description of Islam as "a terrorist organization" on the air last month......
According to WMAL, Graham said "Islam is a terrorist organization" 23 times on his July 25 program. On the same show, he also said repeatedly that "moderate Muslims are those who only want to kill Jews" and that "the problem is not extremism. The problem is Islam."....
Graham, 43, is one of several conservative talk hosts featured on the station. WMAL (630 AM) also carries Rush Limbaugh's and Sean Hannity's nationally syndicated radio shows. Graham's WMAL show is not syndicated.
The station had hoped to work out an agreement that would return Graham to the air, Berry said, but it was evident by early yesterday that Graham would not agree to the station's terms. He added in a statement: "Some of Michael's statements about Islam went over the line -- and this isn't the first time that he has been reprimanded for insensitive language and comments. In this case, as previously, Michael's on-air statements do not reflect the attitudes or opinions of station management. I asked Michael for an on-air acknowledgment that some of his remarks were overly broad, and inexplicably he refused." In 1999, Graham was fired from a Charlotte station for saying that the killing of athletes was a "minor benefit" of the Columbine shootings. He apologized the next day.
apparently Graham wouldn't talk to the WaPo (can't blame him) and the WaPo refused to use Graham's webpage for content for the story.
Posted by: bk ||
08/23/2005 10:40 Comments ||
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#2
Can the substance of the remarks be refuted by factual recounting of the deeds and history of this "religion." Bin Hiding has free speech. So does the BBC.
#5
Apparently the fellow who replaced Graham was discussing the islamic concept of religious deception (in what detail I don't know) and WMAL received another CAIR complaint.
#6
I did some research on this station. I found that this station loves to experiment by having liberal viewpoints. I also found out that Michael's show weren't the highest of ratings, in fact it was pretty low. They can't afford to mess with Rush or Sean.
Also, don't be surprised if his show gets replaced with a liberal. Again, the liberal experiment is something WMAL always wanted to do. My opinion is that they were looking for an excuse to get rid of Michael.
This station is in DC and so is the base mujahadeen operations of CAIR. CAIR has major pull with local DC advertisers. The CAIR threat wouldn't have worked in the South or Mid-West.
Good info. But, I think WMAL will have try other "temporary" conservatives, before saying, "well it was a good try." Hence, cue the liberal.
If they replace Michael with a liberal right away, it'll be too conspicuous and hence the backlash from the Right. Which by the way will be worse for the station than what the mujahadeen's can ever do.
he United States has resumed dealings with Mauritania after a bloodless coup earlier this month ousted one of the main U.S. allies on the West African front of the global war on terror.
Washington initially stood beside the African Union in denouncing the coup, but has since opted to recognize the new government.
"The guys running the country right now are the guys we are dealing with, because they are the ones making the decisions," State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said.
Former President Maaouiya Ould Taya was overthrown Aug. 3 by a 17-member military junta while out of the country. He had prevailed in three other coup attempts over the past two years.
The group of senior officers, many of whom were elemental in bringing Mr. Taya to power more than two decades ago, said his ruthless treatment of Islamist leaders and other political opposition threatened to destabilize the soon-to-be oil-rich nation of 3 million.
The new head of state, Col. Ely Ould Mohamed Vall, has pledged that democratic elections will be held within two years and that no military officers would be eligible to run.
Opposition groups have already met with the new government and 21 political prisoners were freed last week, giving hope to citizens that democracy may be on the horizon.
Mr. Taya, now exiled in Gambia, had been enlisted as a key partner in the newly upgraded seven-year, $500 million Trans-Saharan Counter Terrorism Initiative (TSCTI).
In June, U.S. military personnel began training and border-control exercises with troops from Mauritania and eight other Saharan countries where vast and lawless swaths of desert are believed to be a potential haven for terrorists.
Mauritanian requests for a significant share of U.S. funding were given a boost when 15 soldiers were killed during a June 4 raid on a remote army outpost.
But many analysts have long insisted that pariah regimes like Mr. Taya's exploited U.S. fears to gain military handouts.
"For Mauritania, the Islamists have become a useful alibi to request support from the West," said a recent report by the International Crisis Group, an influential Brussels-based think tank.
Jeremy Keenan, a British expert on the Sahara, believes Mauritania is not alone. He told the British Broadcasting Corp. that the timing of the Mauritanian border attack, which occurred the day after the first phase of the TSCTI began, was "too great a coincidence."
Mr. Keenan called the GSPC a "pseudonym for the Algerian Security Services."
Analysts have further argued that if the U.S. continues to be perceived as reinforcing authoritarian regimes, anti-terror efforts could backfire and prompt moderate Saharans to sympathize with Islamic radicals.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 01:39 ||
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But many analysts have long insisted that pariah regimes like Mr. Taya's exploited U.S. fears to gain military handouts.
Not much different than AZ and NM governors declaring border-area emergencies to access federal funds, without taking or avoiding other steps to deal with the problem.
Link has a partial text of the Iraqi Constitution.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/23/2005 00:42 ||
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Article Two
The political system is republican, parliamentary, democratic and federal.
1. Islam is a main source for legislation.
- a. No law may contradict Islamic standards.
- b. No law may contradict democratic standards.
- c. No law may contradict the essential rights and freedoms mentioned in this constitution.
#4
This sounds like a good way to prevent the legislature from making laws. Perhaps we should adopt it.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/23/2005 10:58 Comments ||
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#5
The Iraqi constitution is a compromise document; just like ours, I might add. As Albert J Nock clearly details in his great work "Our Enemy The State," the Jefferson-Madison-Burr and Washington-Adams-Hamilton factions had very, very different views on, for example, federalism. Our rather beloved and robust constitution is the result of a great deal of dickering between various social, commercial, and ideological factions. It's worked pretty well for a long time, though, in spite of recent moonbattery.
I've read the Iraqi's compromise document and it doesn't seem too bad to me. A good starting point for their experiment with democracy at the very least. I would love to hear Liberalhawks thoughts on this if he's around.
#6
This sounds like a good way to prevent the legislature from making laws. Perhaps we should adopt it.
Or just get Bush to actually veto something.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/23/2005 13:49 Comments ||
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#7
I have been noticing a lot of overheating in the media about how now Iraq is a Islamic state laws based on Islam blah blah blah. At first this pissed me off then after reading the actual words not the LLL's Propoganda I think that all we wanted is garanteed in the wording. Example Islam is basis but freedom of religion is garanteed further down so to me this sounds just more like the Iraqs have learned from us and dropped the seperation of church and state crap that the aithiest love so in this country. Our founders happened to be cristians a lot of our laws were based on such values but they were also smart enough to garantee freedom of religion. Of course the LLL's perverted this into freedom from religion. I think the Iraqs will be OK just one less basic thing to have to agrue about for them in the future.
SALT LAKE CITY - Amid growing calls for a US withdrawal from Iraq, US President George W. Bush fought back Monday with a warning that âa policy of retreat and isolation will not bring us safetyâ from terrorists. After a rare specific reference to the 1,864 US soldiers killed in Iraq, Bush said: âWe owe them something. We will finish the task that they gave their lives for. Weâll honor their sacrifice by staying on the offensive.â
âA policy of retreat and isolation will not bring us safety. The only way to defend our citizens where we live is go after the terrorists where they live,â the president said in a speech to about 15,000 veterans.
He needs to do this more often.
Between 50 and 100 anti-war ninnies demonstrators staged a protest outside the convention center where Bush spoke. They displayed signs reading âSupport the Troops, Bring Them Home Nowâ and âStop the Illegal War.â
Bush downplayed deep schisms that plagued Iraqi political leadersâ efforts to draft a new constitution, predicting that they would agree on a âlandmarkâ democratic blueprint. âThe establishment of a democratic constitution will be a landmark event in the history of Iraq and the history of the Middle East,â he said. âAll of Iraqâs main ethnic and religious groups are working together on this vital project. All made the courageous choice to join the political process. And together they will produce a constitution that reflects the values and traditions of the Iraqi people,â said Bush.
Bush said Iraq was a central front of the global war on terrorism he declared in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks by Osama bin Ladenâs Al Qaeda network. He said terrorists like bin Laden and Iraqâs most-wanted man, Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, hoped to remake Iraq in the image of the Islamist Taliban regime that ruled Afghanistan until US forces and Afghan militias ousted them in 2001.
Bush also warned that Islamist terrorists hoped âto drive nations into retreat so they can topple governments across the Middle East, establish Taliban-like regimes and turn that region into a launching pad for more attacks against our people.â
And tell the citizens how disheartened average people across the Middle East would become if we withdrew.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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We must stay the course (the moonbats hate that phrase) until we get to the dessert.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/23/2005 0:25 Comments ||
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#2
Amid growing calls for a US withdrawal from Iraq
From who exactly? The MSM are the only ones I can think of who do it with any regularity outside of the real die hard moonbats.
I hate presumtive crap like that.
#3
So which did the MSM focus on exclusively, the 15,000 veterans or 200 moonbats?
The Moonbats of course. ABC news protraysed it like it was a large million-mom-march or something. "The Pesident must have been shocked by this *HUGE* protest....".
Taliban fighters will not attack polling stations during next month's election in Afghanistan, a spokesman for the guerrillas said on Monday, but he vowed that the war against the government and US forces would go on. "We have decided not to target polling stations in civilian areas," a spokesman for the militant group, Abdul Latif Hakimi, said by telephone from an undisclosed location. "US and Afghan forces are setting up polling stations in crowded areas which if attacked will cause big losses," said Hakimi, who government and security officials believe is the main Taliban spokesman.
US and Afghan government troops have killed more than 100 militants over the past few weeks in aggressive operations aimed at ensuring security for the 18 September election, the US military said. About 1000 people, most of them Taliban fighters, have been killed in clashes, ambushes and bomb blasts this year, raising concern about the election, particularly in the country's most-troubled areas in the south and east. US forces have suffered 47 deaths in combat in Afghanistan this year, four in a blast on Sunday, their worst casualty rate in the country since arriving in late 2001 to force the Taliban from power.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Sounds like the light bulb went on over his head. Killing the people you want to rule is counter-productive. They tend to get mean and rat you out. Either that or they just don't have the resources to do a lot of booming.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/23/2005 7:42 Comments ||
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#2
Or it's a lie and they're hoping we'll buy into it and not protect the polling stations as much.
Wafaqul Madaris Al Arabia (Deobandi) on Monday refused to register religious schools under the amended Society Registration Act 1860 and also refused to repatriate foreign students studying in its seminaries. The Wafaq runs approximately 8,200 schools. âMore than 90 per cent of the ulema participating in the meeting rejected the ordinance,â sources privy to the meeting told Daily Times.
In that case, shut 'em down. That's simple. Perv either runs a government or he runs a debating society and firing range.
Maulana Fazlur Rehman, leader of the opposition in the National Assembly, while addressing the meeting said the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) would resign from the NWFP and National Assembly if the government tried to curb the liberty of religious schools.
Even better!
âWe are ready to sacrifice everything to maintain the sovereignty of religious schools,â Fazl added.
Somehow, I think that's an empty threat. There's no way I can see Fazl or Qazi giving up power, and the MMA resigning would amount to that.
Maybe they could set themselves on fire, ya know, in protest?
With the amount of lard they're lugging around, they'd burn for a week...
âThe meeting rejected the September 30 deadline for repatriation of foreign students and the December 31 deadline for registration of seminaries,â Maulana Qazi Abdur Rashid, nazim-e-aala of the Wafaqâs Punjab chapter, told journalists. He said the meeting constituted a 19-member committee that would discuss the issue with the government and chalk out a strategy to resolve it.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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They could always walk out of parliament ...
Again.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/23/2005 1:10 Comments ||
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This is a pretty neat story that I haven't seen anybody else pick up. Perv's PML seems to have made some solid gains at the expense of the turbans, which is why they're hollering about vote fixing.
LAHORE: Former Kamoki tehsil nazim Zakaullah Baryar and Pakistan People's Party (PPP) Kamoki President Bashir Bhopal visited Chief Minister Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi at Chief Minister's House on Monday. The chief minister announced their decision to join the Pakistan Muslim League (PML). Transport Minister Rana Shamshad Ahmad Khan was also present, said an official statement. The chief minister said the success of PML-backed candidates in the first phase of local council elections showed that people wanted continuity of the reforms and development programmes of the government. He welcomed the new members of the PML and said that more people joining the PML would strengthen the party.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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The ANP and the MQM have also done well, and both are opposed to Islamism. It's a pity the PPP couldn't have done better, because they are more liberal than the PML which includes all sorts of conservatives sympathetic to Islamist causes.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/23/2005 1:09 Comments ||
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Major opposition parties in parliament do not want to resign over alleged government rigging in the local council elections. Sources in the Alliance for the Restoration of Democracy (ARD) and Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) told Daily Times on Monday that the demand of resigning from parliament had come from smaller opposition parities. The opposition had announced thinking about resigning from parliament during a recently held All Parties Conference (APC).
But they won't. You know they won't. I know they won't. Most importantly, Perv knows they won't.
Sources said the driving force behind the announcement was Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf chief Imran Khan and several Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) members. The opposition had already participated in the local council elections, saying that by participating it would expose the rigging being done for the benefit of government-backed candidates. Senior ARD and MMA leaders were of the opinion that the government should not be given a smooth time in parliament, sources said, adding that some leaders feared that the government might exploit the situation after their resignation and delay the general elections, scheduled for 2007.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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ISLAMABAD: Moderates are gaining the upper hand in Pakistan, as is evident from the results of the first phase of local elections, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said on Monday. Local bodies are the building blocks of a democratic system and the recent elections will strengthen democracy in Pakistan, Aziz told members of the Association of Asian Parliament for Peace (AAPP) here. He said democracy was flourishing in Pakistan with an active opposition and free press.
I find that both surprising and gratifying. Maybe Mahmoud al-Pakistani finds MMA's clownishness as offensive as we do?
The prime minister criticised the Western media for its ânegative portrayalâ of Pakistan following the July 7 terrorist bombings in London. He said the bombers were referred to as Pakistanis, even though they were born, brought up and educated in the UK. Later speaking at a dinner for the Executive Council of the AAPP, Aziz said Pakistan was committed to fighting terrorism, but sought measures to counter the root causes. âWe have been engaged in counter terrorism cooperation with the international community much before 9/11. There can be no justification for terrorism, but we are opposed to any attempt that seeks to draw a linkage between terrorism and Islam or a particular country. Terrorism has no religion and is a universal scourge.â He said new threats including nuclear proliferation, terrorism, extremism and the increased use of unilateralism had compounded earlier threats arising from poverty, underdevelopment, territorial disputes, and denial of justice.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/23/2005 00:00 ||
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Terrorism has no religion and is a universal scourge
He's right about that. The Red Brigades in Germany in the 1970s were far leftists, not Muslims, but they certainly used terror tactics.
I'm watching FARC, the Chavistas and the Shining Path these days ... it would not surprise me if they used terror tactics going forward, too. In fact, FARC has done so, trained by the IRA, who also used them.
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The Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland has called on Muslim extremists to leave the country. The Reverend David Lacy said radical Islamists were "hypocrites" who treated their neighbours as "enemies". He said Muslims who speak out against the UK and have been accused of encouraging attacks on coalition soldiers in Iraq should leave. The comments have divided Kirk members but have received some support from within the Muslim community. 
BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) - A U.S. judge has taken out ads in Colombian newspapers and magazines ordering the country's main rebel group to appear in his Washington courtroom to face charges of kidnapping three Americans in 2003.
The Muslim leaders unanimously rejected terrorism and distanced themselves from radical clerics who have recently praised terror mastermind Osama bin Laden. Mr Howard said the Government would explore with the Muslim community the education and sourcing of clerics (imams). "We do believe that more can be done to bring an Australia's perspective to that," Mr Howard said.
Taliban fighters will not attack polling stations during next month's election in Afghanistan, a spokesman for the guerrillas said on Monday, but he vowed that the war against the government and US forces would go on. "We have decided not to target polling stations in civilian areas," a spokesman for the militant group, Abdul Latif Hakimi, said by telephone from an undisclosed location. "US and Afghan forces are setting up polling stations in crowded areas which if attacked will cause big losses," said Hakimi, who government and security officials believe is the main Taliban spokesman.
Wafaqul Madaris Al Arabia (Deobandi) on Monday refused to register religious schools under the amended Society Registration Act 1860 and also refused to repatriate foreign students studying in its seminaries. The Wafaq runs approximately 8,200 schools. âMore than 90 per cent of the ulema participating in the meeting rejected the ordinance,â sources privy to the meeting told Daily Times. 
LAHORE: Former Kamoki tehsil nazim Zakaullah Baryar and Pakistan People's Party (PPP) Kamoki President Bashir Bhopal visited Chief Minister Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi at Chief Minister's House on Monday. The chief minister announced their decision to join the Pakistan Muslim League (PML). Transport Minister Rana Shamshad Ahmad Khan was also present, said an official statement. The chief minister said the success of PML-backed candidates in the first phase of local council elections showed that people wanted continuity of the reforms and development programmes of the government. He welcomed the new members of the PML and said that more people joining the PML would strengthen the party.
ISLAMABAD: Moderates are gaining the upper hand in Pakistan, as is evident from the results of the first phase of local elections, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said on Monday. Local bodies are the building blocks of a democratic system and the recent elections will strengthen democracy in Pakistan, Aziz told members of the Association of Asian Parliament for Peace (AAPP) here. He said democracy was flourishing in Pakistan with an active opposition and free press. 
