Sunday WaPo, page A1, above the fold. WaPo title - Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Hurting U.S. Terror Fight - is hardly proven, based on this "analysis-as-news."
The war in Iraq has become a primary recruitment vehicle for violent Islamic extremists, motivating a new generation of potential terrorists around the world whose numbers may be increasing faster than the United States and its allies can reduce the threat, U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded.
A 30-page National Intelligence Estimate completed in April cites the "centrality" of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the insurgency that has followed, as the leading inspiration for new Islamic extremist networks and cells that are united by little more than an anti-Western agenda. It concludes that, rather than contributing to eventual victory in the global counterterrorism struggle, the situation in Iraq has worsened the U.S. position, according to officials familiar with the classified document. Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/24/2006 08:32 ||
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#1
This stuff really pisses me off. They finish the article with questions like "Are we finding the root causes?" As if this somehow constitutes an argument(rational or otherwise) about what to do.
The reality is that any analysis of causes and solutions based on them (apart from the totally spurious, its all our fault) will result in effects the author(s) will abhor like flattening every madrassah in the Middle East.
#2
Article: But "a really big hole" in the U.S. strategy, a second counterterrorism official said, "is that we focus on the terrorists and very little on how they are created. If you looked at all the resources of the U.S. government, we spent 85, 90 percent on current terrorists, not on how people are radicalized."
This is pretty silly. We know the Muslim street is radical in the first place and this radicalism is reinforced by Muslim governments that can't figure out which came first - the chicken or the egg - so they dish out the same propaganda that Muslims already believe, so they won't get overthrown by other Muslim power-seekers on the pretext that the government is betraying Islam. I think the term is feedback loop.
#3
Yeah. These people never take their drive by comments to their logical conclusions. Over the last 5 years I've learned to include 'intelligence analysts' with the reporters I've talked to in terms of ideological bias.
We are trying to thread the needle by changing the incentive structure: oppose us and you die, develop civilized democracies and we'll help.
It's not easy because of the same cultural factors that make most Arab countries seething failures. If this strategy fails, they will eventually provoke us to the point where we 'go Roman' on them.
Back in the old days, wiping out the enemy was the first option in situations like this (Carthago delenda est) but now we try to be nice first. If this report is correct, being nice is leading to 'more terrorists' and we'll have to take out entire societies and cultures rather than a few thousand dirtbags in places like Anbar and Afganistan. Somehow I doubt the 'analysts' and journalists would support this.
#4
Looking at how the radicalization feedback loop works isn't really going to do us any good - our society is based on free speech - we can't really tell these guys to stop saying these nutty things. More to the point, we can't really stop this kind of thing, given that we can't even muster the political will to stop them doing dangerous things like preparing to make nukes. Because when diplomacy fails, which it often does in the face of the lack of credible threat to the existing regime, the only way to do either is to actually carry out regime change. It's one thing to bomb cities and topple a government for its sponsorship of terrorists, and quite another to do it for its creation of propaganda inimical to one's national interest.
#6
Are these the same Intel Analysts that failed at just about every notable global event in the last 20 years? Of course they did note the world-wide conspiracy to out a LOW level DESK analysts(sic). Funny that this report runs counter to the documents and statements by the bad guys about te lack of recruits.
#8
#5 So, fighting the indian only made more indians?
No, it made more radical indians. Ask Russell Means. (There must have been others....)
irony off
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/24/2006 10:44 Comments ||
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#9
As soon as I see analyst, expert, anonimous officials or sources in such a mental poisoning diatribe, I stop reading. It would be like finishing my salad with a worm in it!
#11
Worthless bunk. But very damaging as the MSM will be promoting this for weeks. We know how these pissers are created. Lets start snuffing imams. Want to wipe out madrasses too? These are the brainwashing factories par excellance. If we have the guts to follow thru, we know how and where to stop the indoctrination. Drivel like this is self defeating.
#12
More defeatist claptrap from the liberal-controlled CIA and NIE. Seldom do they address the soruces of the radical Islamic cockroach infestation.
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, through the commitment to spread vile Wahhabism and Deobandism, are the primary culprits behind the spread of violent Jihad and radical Sunni-Islamism. There's a solution for dealing with these vermin, but do not expect the NIE and CIA, much less the State Department, to endorse it.
#13
Lets start snuffing imams. Want to wipe out madrasses too? These are the brainwashing factories par excellance. If we have the guts to follow thru, we know how and where to stop the indoctrination
This makes the most sense. That's the way to go, both here and abroad.
#14
Negroponte said: "My colleagues and I still view the global jihadist terrorist movement, which emerged from the Afghan-Soviet conflict in the 1980s but is today inspired and led by al-Qaeda, as the preeminent threat to our citizens, homeland interests and friends."
So, back in the 1980s this assclown concluded that the global jihadist terrorist movement was already in existence. Now, suddenly, it is Iraq that is incubating more terrorists. BIG CLUE: If the terrorists were breeding TWENTY FUCKING YEARS AGO, theyre still breeding now and Iraq has little if anything to do with it. But recognizing that just doesnt seem to suit your agenda.
# 4 Because when diplomacy fails, which it often does in the face of the lack of credible threat to the existing regime, the only way to do either is to actually carry out regime change.
What we need is a credible threat (read: nuclear deterrent), whereby our foes are kept in a strategic stasis until we can go in and perform regime change.
#25
So these comments posted OK, but the one you were trying to post originally keeps getting you RSA'd??? Sounds like a bug report is in order...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 16:57 Comments ||
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#26
Why are we worried about some illiterate slob joining the cause in Pakistan. The guys I care most about are the Western educated, fluent in English dudes capable fo obtaining a VISA into the US. Once we have shredded all US, UK, Canadian and Australian born jihadis, we will be significantly safer no matter how many unwashed cretans hate us from Waziristan, Gaza or Yemen.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/24/2006 16:58 Comments ||
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#27
Yep...
I just emailed it to you, Dave. Just simple text. Should've sent to Fred, too, but I'm senile. That's my defense and I'm sticking to it, lol.
#28
Simple: Financiers, and the radical clerics they fund, coupled with abuse of the media (can you abuse the willing?) means moer fanatics recruited.
The ONLY way to conclude this fight this is to go after the source: Mullahs and Moneymen. Wetwork. Get their skins in the game and things calms down a lot.
#29
Boy, whatever you had in there must have hit a nerve in the ol' RB No-No Filter, bigtime! I tried posting it and got the full Muffler Man treatment...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:05 Comments ||
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#30
So these comments posted OK, but the one you were trying to post originally keeps getting you RSA'd??? Sounds like a bug report is in order...
I've been getting RSAed ever since midnight over at the Somalia article. It's not just you, .com. Although from all the attention you get around here sometimes it's hard to tell.
#32
PD, all I can think of is show it to Fred and as him what's up. I sure didn't see anything.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:07 Comments ||
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#33
UberCommies
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:09 Comments ||
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#34
OK, that wasn't it... (I'll clean up this mess later on, just trying to figure out what was in .com's comment that made RB kick it out...)
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:10 Comments ||
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#35
And the redirect isn't content driven. My post was a nice and polite one all about how a couple of AC-130s could solve the entire problem by air-dropping some tea party kits 105mm "business cards".
#36
I dunno, Zen. I don't post much cuz everybody usually covers the topic so well that I don't see the need. I don't know what to say to the attention bit, lol. We all come at these things from different angles and just call 'em as we see 'em, so most everything gets said, sooner or later.
INSERTED BY DD FROM .COM'S EMAIL:
The first victim in a conflict is the truth.
Thanks JDB for the heads-up! The PL link is bad, but it's easy to find.
Fox says that others who contributed to this report are disputing this is the key point in the report. The statement that it is "unanimous" is also absurd on its face. I certainly hope so, else we need to scrap all of the "intel" agencies as both incompetent AND terminally political. I have some faith left, in a few of them, but not much.
Iraq - only a twit would conclude it is the key. Darrell nails that stupidity to the barn door it in #4 in the Fox Interview of Clinton thread. The definitive Word on the Clinton years.
It is my belief that the situation is simply the result of oil money in the pockets of Islam. Were it not for the oil, they'd still be poor irrelevant ignorant savages wandering the desert. With the oil money, they're rich chaos-generating ignorant savages wandering the casinos and halls of Parliament and Congress.
I believe they first grasped how much power they had during the '73 oil embargo - retribution for saving Israel's ass.
Then came challenges which both caught us in a PCism tipping point, momentarily stuck on stupid, studying our collective navel ('79 Embassy takeover) and totally preoccupied with the endgame against communism ('83 Beirut bombing of the Marine barracks).
Then came Clinton, the "wall", the clear failures of the Law Enforcement mode, silly half-assed wastes of cruise missiles on empty tents, and poor poor Saint Dickie Clark, unappreciated would-be Savior of the Western World.
The evisceration of our intel agencies, especially the humint channels, started back in the Church Committee ('75-'76), may Frank Church burn in something akin to Hell, and continued from that time on through to today. We've never recovered from this incredible disaster or sufficiently bitten the bullet to fight the political firestorm that reversing it obviously entails. Only one effort has been made - and torpedoed from within and without. I'm sure Goss could illuminate the point more eloquently. Now, under the weight of rabid institutionalized PCism that Stalin would be proud of, it probably can't be done - short of civil war. It is the worst-case situation: the agencies are saturated with seditious traitors and political partisans - and protected by their political sponsors in the congress and MSM.
We're in some pretty dire shit. The PakiWakis and the NorKies both have nukes and are obviously insane - IslamoNazis and UberCommies - some of that Perfect Storm stuff. It becomes deeper and more dire if Iran gets nukes. All we have going for us is Bush. He did what Clinton and the others didn't have the stones to do. He is reviled domestically and globally. Yet he does what he believes he must do to protect the US. I don't agree with everything he does, nor do I think he's even getting rational advice on some issues, much less useful actionable intel. Yet there he is, plugging away, doing what he believes is in our best interests, saying some revolutionary stuff and then keeping his word, ignoring shit that would drive most men mad - such as the ultra-thin-skinned Clinton. I'm glad he's the President.
#40
Happened to me too when I tried to paste your comments into a comment, .com. Dunno why. If I paste just the first three paragraphs, it works fine. So I guess I'll parse your comment looking for a bad char. Could be that simple.
Welcome back, by the way, dunno if I said that before, glad to see you commenting again.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/24/2006 17:29 Comments ||
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#41
"Junior Acolyte" would be more accurate. All I get to do is scutwork like picking up the used rubbers off the front lawn each morning, deleting comment spam, rebooting the server when it goes OTR, shit like that.
Policy decisions and other big-boy shit are left to the AoS and the rest of the High Priesthood...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:29 Comments ||
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#42
A lack of shame is the hallmark of our internal enemies, Zen - you don't wann go there, lol.
My "ultimate" question, and I'm not asking you, just blathering aloud, is:
"Do you cheat at solitarie?"
Simply put, anyone who does is capable of anything.
Re #41 - Acolyte, picking up rubbers, LOLOLOLOL. Regards this blasphemy call the AoS, we need to talk... When CW-II comes along, we should seize the opportunity... 8->
#44
Alright, I exported the raw contents of the email .com sent me and looked at it in a binary file editor; and I see NOTHING in the way of goofy characters in it that would make RB choke like a maiden doing her first swallow. Nada.
Looks like it's up to Fred. I put a note in the hopper for him, we'll see what he does.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:36 Comments ||
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#45
All I get to do is scutwork like picking up the used rubbers off the front lawn each morning, deleting comment spam, rebooting the server when it goes OTR, shit like that.
Policy decisions and other big-boy shit are left to the AoS and the rest of the High Priesthood...
#46
My "ultimate" question, and I'm not asking you, just blathering aloud, is:
"Do you cheat at solitarie?"
Simply put, anyone who does is capable of anything.
That reminds me: remember Clinton and his notoriously endless do-overs when he played golf? Heh...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 17:47 Comments ||
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#47
Re the roadside America thing, it has happened to me a couple of time, and I believe it's keyword-related, for example I could post a comment by rewriting paragraph by paragraph and multiple tries (troublesome expression was a certain defense league, in that case).
Annoying, but the owner of this joint is Supreme, so no complaining.
#51
OPSEC considerations mean that Master Fred does not publicly state what triggers various defensive actions here at the Burg.
But given the HUGE number, types and volume of attacks this site regularly withstands, I'm sure y'all understand why that would be the case. Feel free to post a question in a thread or email a mod directly and we'll help you get a comment up if it triggers the antibodies ....
#53
Both this thread, and "JAG Crotch Goes Left" deserve a more reasoned, sober analysis...Redskins/Ravens/Panthers wins today makes that impossible. Great posts. Thanks.
Simply put, anyone who does is capable of anything.
Actually, that is a truly fine question, .com. Cheating at solitaire is something that has never even occured to me. On several other occasions, I've also given up things I enjoy, just as a test of my will. Things like turning my television off for a year back in 1995-1996. Hell, I could have watched it every so often and no one would have known the difference ... except me. This ugly mug is what I look at in the mirror every morning and I'll damned if I'd have myself confronting that sort of shallowness upon waking each day.
When you cheat, the possibility of winning through skill instantly evaporates. Skill is the only assurance of consistent victory. At the risk of being considered a dullard, I'll opt for consistency over a momentary win anyday. Consistency may be the hobgoblin of small minds but most definitely not so for those who seek true achievement.
Appropos to your own question, I was talking with my friend, Ms. Samaan, a Syrian Christian who runs the delightful Middle East foods store near my house. We were discussing the Beslan atrocity. She said:
"Into an empty jar can go anything."
This was in reference to how Muslim children are programmed with hatred from day one and how minds not exposed to critical analysis or autoscopic thought will not have the tools to detect bullshit congnitively dissonant information. They are open to anything that an adult sees fit to pour into them.
That saying has always stuck with me and your question about solitaire brought it back. The way that Muslims lie to themselves is identical to cheating at solitaire. They refuse to self-examine and instead gobble down jihadist camels only to strangle on democratic gnats.
Former President Bill Clinton, angrily defending his efforts to capture Osama bin Laden, accused the Bush administration of doing far less to stop the al Qaeda leader before the September 11 attacks. In a heated interview to be aired on Sunday on "Fox News Sunday," the former Democratic president defended the steps he took after al Qaeda's attack on the USS Cole in 2000 and faulted "right-wingers" for their criticism of his efforts to capture Osama bin Laden.
"But at least I tried. That's the difference in me and some, including all of the right-wingers who are attacking me now," Clinton said when asked whether he had failed to fully anticipate bin Laden's danger. "They had eight months to try, they did not try. I tried. So I tried and failed."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
They had eight months to try,.
I see math is not your strong suit.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
09/24/2006 3:59 Comments ||
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#3
He should just STFU up already. Any look back at his adminstrations behavior towards koranimals is going to be unflattering to him, he's a smart if amoral guy he should realize that.
#6
How many opportunities did he have to take him out during his administration? And how many of them were shot down by his staff (like Sandy "Baggy Pants" Berger) before our military could follow through?
#7
He really ought to consider how this adds to his "legacy". The more he whines, the more people will forget the charming rogue and remember the whiner who didn't grapple with the big issue, leaving it for his successor.
Look at Carter. When he was first out of office at Habitat for Humanity, people thought, "at least he is a good person even if that doesn't translate into being a good President." Now, people don't even think he was a good person, just a whiny, bitter, incompetent loser.
Before it is too late, he should consider the examples of GHW Bush and Gerry Ford who simply disappeared from the political scene, satisfied to let the historians sort it out over the next few generations and help the country quietly as their successors asked.
I figure we're going to be hearing more and more of this kind of stuff over the next 2 years:
"It's all about bin Laden. Iraq was a senseless distraction from the War On Terror. Bush hasn't caught bin Laden yet. Bush's war in Iraq has made us less safe. Bush has turned the WoT into a War On Islam. Now Muslims everywhere hate us because of Bush. The whole world hates us because we're so mean. Bush has alienated our allies by ignoring their advice. Bush is ignoring the Constitution. Bush is ignoring International Law. Iraq has made us less safe. Bush hasn't caught bin Laden yet...."
And on and on, ad nauseum. We're going to be hearing this crap, nonstop, right through the 2008 Presidential election, because the Democrats are desperate to end the "war" part of the WoT and revert to the "law enforcement approach" as it was under Clinton.
So it's not just Bill Clinton trying to influence what historians will say of his presidency years from now: it's that the Dems want to go back and resume Clinton's policies even though they were an abject failure.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 9:03 Comments ||
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#9
Dave D - Isn't that the definition of insanity?
Oh, wait - it's the Dems. Insanity is a given.
Nevermind.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/24/2006 9:46 Comments ||
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#10
"Dave D - Isn't that the definition of insanity?"
Depends on whether you're talking about liberal leaders, or liberal followers.
For liberal followers, the people this stuff is concocted to appeal to, yes: it's insanity. Insanity augmented with huge doses of stupidity and ignorance.
For liberal leaders, though, it's simple politics, rampant greed and dishonesty. They know damn well their policies get more Americans killed by terrorists-- and they don't give a shit.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/24/2006 10:02 Comments ||
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#11
The liberal followers are insane. I was down in Baltimore and my liberal friends (there was no other kind of Marylander till a few years ago) were tripping over themselves to tell me what a stupid empty suit Steele was and how brilliant Ben Cardin is. I know I always ask for the candidates SAT and IQ scores before I make my decision. Look how badly that dum actor screwed things up. Keep telling yourselves that, folks.
#12
Dave D: "They know damn well their policies get more Americans killed by terrorists-- and they don't give a shit."
So they're unconscionable, insane bastards.
Works for me.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/24/2006 10:11 Comments ||
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#13
I did NOT have sex with Bin Laden.
Posted by: William J Clinton ||
09/24/2006 11:07 Comments ||
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#14
"Now, I've never criticized President Bush..."
Pathological Liar
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/24/2006 11:12 Comments ||
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#15
Ole Bill almost blew a gasket. He intended to discuss his Clintonian Global Iniative (CGI), but felt side-tracked and ambushed by FNC's Chris Wallace.
Good for him. After all, why trifle about something as seemingly unimpotant that the most dangerous phase of radical Islam's now 28-year war on the West and modernity having gained its lethality and "coming of age" under Bill's watch?
#18
From reading the transcript I concluded Bill wasn't side tracked. He was waiting for it. That rant was well composed and rehearsed. Wallace was the one caught off guard. If he'd been prepared, his answer to ths:
CLINTON: I dont believe you asked them that.
WALLACE: We ask plenty of questions of
CLINTON: You didnt ask that, did you? Tell the truth, Chris.
WALLACE: About the USS Cole?
CLINTON: Tell the truth, Chris.
would have been "Mr. President I haven't been convicted of perjury. I do tell the truth."
Before it is too late, he should consider the examples of GHW Bush and Gerry Ford who simply disappeared from the political scene, satisfied to let the historians sort it out over the next few generations and help the country quietly as their successors asked.
Excellent advice. Ford was so maligned for his pardon of Nixon in the 1970's but nowadays, quite a few historians agree it was a principled and intelligent decision. Ford's legacy, even if just as a place holder, is now one of being a decent and fair man.
That's better than what Clinton and Carter can expect if they keep running their mouths.
#21
Mike Wallace's career, probably regardless of anything he ever does in the future, will be defined by this interview. Imagine how many people will now be out to "get" him - and I'm not kidding in the least.
I've just finished watching the whole thing on Fox, Clinton was, indeed, gunning for any criticism and wouldn't let it go.
He's a complete pussy. I hope, and predict, he will be gutted by non-idolater historians.
#23
Shrinkwrapped: What joins all these stories is an antipathy and fear of aggression and its derivative, competition, which is the fundamental guiding force behind liberalism. For many years, the goal of liberalism has been to minimize the impact of aggression in the world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this goal but when one's fear of one's own aggression is kept out of awareness, it exacts a terrible price in its drive for expression.
Managing and containing the aggressive drive is a prerequisite for civilization, yet when the civilized liberal becomes so frightened of his own aggression that he attempts to suppress every overt expression of aggression, even when it is appropriate and necessary for his survival, he invites greater and greater violence from those who are not similarly constrained. This is a lesson which tends to be forgotten during peace time and must be relearned periodically.
#26
Don-cha think that Chris REALLY hit Bubba's last nerve with a couple of simple, direct questions? Bubba turned purple with rage. It's easy to imagine klinton "forcing" himself on Juanita Broaddrick (and others.) There are forces of evil in this world. Those forces swirl around incarnate Bill and Hillary Clinton, and their minions. May God Bless us All.
#28
Dubya wasn't POTUS until after he was officially inaugurated in January 2001. Interesting Legal premise - is a State Governor the superior of a national POTUS, and a national VPOTUS vying to be elected POTUS, and either after the November 000 elex andor before the 001 inauguration day??? ANd how does an alleged inferior national POTUS exceed his authority over the State Governor by "trying" to do "something"???
Mea culpa, maxima mea culpa, I didn't realize this article had been posted Thursday despite the helpful flag Fred has for us moderators on duplicate posts. Seafarious is going to enjoy ribbing me about this.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Many JAGs want to give the captured terrorists most of the privileges of civilians, or even soldiers, accused of criminal acts.
[Rinses off salt] Okay, where's exJAG when we need her? This sounds like a ration of bullshit. Lawyer or no, OPSEC has to take precedence.
Now the JAGs are aware of the circumstances under which U.S. troops are fighting, and the importance of OPSEC (Operational Security, keeping info about your activities from the enemy). Even so, many JAGs seem to lose their perspective, and advocate strongly for giving the terrorists the information. Operators believe the JAGs are grandstanding, especially by saying one thing to uniformed people, and something else to the media and Congress. The situation has divided the JAG community as well, and it's getting ugly.
If we are forced to pass up many more of those Taliban funeral opportunities, you bet this is going to get ugly. Something does not compute. Whether it is careerists interfering with common sense warfare or congenital litigators obsessed with the law's letter and not its spirit, something is rotten in Denmark Washington DC.
On top of all this, the size of the JAG force has grown some ten percent since the end of the Cold War, while everyone else has shrunk by about a third. As a result, the senior JAGs in each service wants to be three star generals, instead of the current two star.
This fact alone is highly indicative of a general societal malaise whose main symptom is litigiousness. That these lawyers are clamoring for high leadership positions and standing at odds with those who are in harms way spells disaster. Something is screwy in St. Louie.
#4
With respect to my experience with JAG's, Dentists and Navy Doctors some didn't seem to be transformed by 90 days of marching in formation at Newport into actual military officers. Those that had prior military experience or spent significant time attached to ships acted like military officers while those wh oexisted in isolated enclaves didn't see to get it.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/24/2006 1:10 Comments ||
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#5
This is exactly the same article entitled "Let's Kill All the Military Lawyers" that was posted on Thursday.
JAG Corps training and climate varies by branch. The Marine Corps is the most operator-friendly, followed by the Army, then the Navy, then the Air Force. Further, I'd estimate that a majority of JAG officers are prior service, or got their commissions through OCS or ROTC. And direct commissionees are not always idiots, frequently driven to the military by the left-wing crapola crammed down their throats in law school. And the efforts of JAG Corps NCOs to turn their officers into warriors are heroic.
Most JAG officers, at least in the Marine Corps and the Army, have served in combat zones by now.
The size of the JAG Corps has increased because the number of regulations commanders are expected to comply with has multiplied.
I can't respond in much depth to an article that names no specific officers, initiatives, or concrete positions advocated. However, if "many" JAG officers "want" to give captured terrorists privileges, it is because the laws made by Congress and the President, and regulations issued by SecState and SecDef, require them to take this position. I know many of them do it with extreme reluctance and distaste.
As always, if you don't like the law, blame the people who make it: Congress, the cabinet, and judges. The JAG Corps is not moving left; the political climate is moving left. The JAG Corps only reflects what civilians give us. None of us are in any position to make law.
Now, that is the last time I'm going to respond to verbal vomit that calls for the death of US soldiers.
#6
Apologies, exJAG, even though I didn't post this. For some reason I didn't notice the identical text from the other day. Thank you for responding anyway.
Now, that is the last time I'm going to respond to verbal vomit that calls for the death of US soldiers.
#7
Thanks, Zen. If it was up to me -- up to a lot of us -- there is a simple way to handle, for example, the rules requiring country-club treatment and Constitutional protections for captured detainees: do not capture any.
If there's concern with losing the intel value, I say beat it out of 'em, then execute them right there on the battlefield. Nothing bloody or torturous, just "talk or die," then kill them anyway. It's that or keep allowing the enemy to beat us with our own stick.
It's not how we're used to doing business, but it would be perfectly consistent with the Geneva Conventions (as unlawful combatants are not protected). It would neatly sidestep all the silly rules that give the enemy so much traction in the media, as well as outraegous Supreme Court decisions that have turned the battlefield into a crime scene.
The fact that the enemy benefits more from Gitmo than we do is the best argument for closing it, and shifting to a no-prisoners policy. We're not fighting like we mean it, and that must change.
#8
When all of this was starting up, I had some compunctions regarding battlefield conduct. After the beheading of our soldiers and other American hostages, the "take no prisoners" philosophy begins to make a lot more sense. This is especially so in light of the "catch and release" program that so many of the Islamic governments conduct. Saudi Arabia is the most egregious offender in this category.
I argued strongly against reintegrating the Taleban into Afghani society, to much opposition by those around me. The net result has been a prolonged terrorist insurgency that continues to cost coalition lives. More than anything, our enemy recognizes absolutely no Rules of Engagement. As with the Taleban funeral gathering, there are numerous aspects of our war-fighting methodology that must come under review and be subjected to revision.
exJAG, I'll add that there are many here who feel the exact same way you do about battlefield capture and interrogation. While I've taken much heat for it, I've never backed down from my support of intensive or rough interrogation techniques. My reasoning is rather simple. If I were caught in the act of perpetrating a terrorist attack, I know my life would be worth pigeonshit on a stick. Anyone who cares to commit these sorts of atrocities must face the certainty of grueling interrogation and the easy possibility of a bullet in the head thereafter.
By no choice of our own, we are now in this for the long haul. Short of exceptionally drastic disincentive measures, like the threat of nuclear annihilation (which I support), there is nothing but several more years slogging through this sort of muck. Islam has declared war upon us and as, .com, another notable contributor at this board has observed, all this "Order of the Garter" shit is going to fall by the wayside before this is over.
Islam is the final refutation of multiculturalism. Non-integrating populations simply have no place in pluralistic societies. Whatever utopist dream that envisioned multiculturalism must now be discarded as we undertake disinfecting this world of the toxic meme known as Islam.
In light of Islam's congenital predisposition to ultra-violence, I have increasingly fewer doubts that nuclear weapons will eventually be brought onto the table, if not into play. A strong deterrent or simply the need for wholesale retaliation will probably necessitate their use. If we do not immediately utilize their role as a deterrent, it will result in some undreamt of and unimaginable atrocity being wreaked upon America that will make 9-11 look like a picnic.
All of our politicians must immediately dismiss any notion of treating our foes as equals of any sort. They most definitely are not. We are faced with psychotic fanatics who have zero value for human life and would not flinch to take it by the millions if they only could.
Somewhere along the line, America's leaders need to comprehend this and allow our armed forced to rewrite their order of battle accordingly. If we do not, there will most assuredly be a tremendous loss of life on our shores at some future date.
#9
Our military is a product of our society, with that said our law schools are not exactly right leaning.
This is a legal quandary for the combatant. We have been engaged with an enemy that has no flag, and that signed no accords. The theater in which Im engaged we cannot move unless the JAG has approved. We need solutions, we know the problems.
Posted by: Joe of the Jungle ||
09/24/2006 6:23 Comments ||
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#10
Listen to me OSJA, you WILL support the troops. I do not support your clinton era policy at all. I worked with your fruity lawyers before and I know how much of a world apart they really are from our soldiers. Get rid of those ALCU lawyers immediately and re-learn the UCMJ. The guys we are fighting have NO CODE. Get with the team or we will abolish your useless office alltogether.
#11
Part of the problem is that the lawyers have now created a political culture around their process. They, like the communist and other utopians, believe theirs is now the way to a perfect orderly society. In the process they have abandoned the anchor upon which their very legitimacy rests. To return to Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence -
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Law is simply an extension of government. By separating the law from the consent of the governed, the legal class has sought to impose its concept of government and society upon that society without consent. While I see lawyers and special interest advocates promoting more law, I only see more and more the resentment and growing anger among far too many others with the implementation of rule through dictate from the bench. A bench that everyday becomes closer and closer to an aristocracy. To believe that somehow, magically, military lawyers in the middle of the legal culture are somehow immune to this compulsion, is unwarranted.
#12
It seems that politick or power-seeker unelected bureaucrats want to introduce something like the Miranda or "the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" rules into the Military. Then, like the Police Force, Soldiers will be fighting with two feet in one boot!
#15
Process is what people focus on when they have no convictions. (See: the EU. the UN.)
There's an unfortunate intersection here in that the legal climate in the US has also focused very heavily on process over content since the 1960s. Many of us have been concerned about this for a long while. It's one reason I support Bush -- his SCOTUS nominees tend to balance that out a bit.
#16
exjag, I wanted to post to this the other day but work took me from the net. I understand your frustration anger. When I was a LT I always said we should kill the lawyers. Someting a young and dumb LT would say. As I grew older I realized it was the commanders who let the JAG officers run the units. I came to realize later that when the JAG says "not a good idea", it does not mean they are in command and the final answer is no. That just means if it goes bad they might have a hard time defending you. When commanders give too much weight, inappropriate, in an opinion of a JAG officer you get commands that won't leave the wire. The JAG are there to advise so a commander can make an informed decision, then they are there to help defend him.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/24/2006 21:23 Comments ||
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#17
don't have time to read the posts but I heard or read that this was all about the Jag Corps wanting an extra star. To do this they want to grow the community. I find this plausible as I know of one other community that believes that if you bloat yourself like a tick then you'll get more respect.
#18
The "Moving Left" title for the artical is kind of bogus. Does it really matter if a military officer believes the collectivism would be an effective way to farm in Iowa? I don't think it really matters. Anti-military and anti-American military officers could be a big problem whether they are JAGs or any other community. My beleif about Navy JAG's is that their time in law school is more formative than their time in OCS. I don't think that's as big a problem in the USMC. I don't have any idea about the army.
I would rather see all Navy specialties (none line officers) staffed with LDO's or JO's that transferred outside of line status after a sucessful tour as a line DivO. The would have to be a system of scholaships set up to feed good junior enllisted into law school and other specialties like Industrial Hygene.
My beleif was formed not from observation of JAG's who don't do ship duty except maybe on staffs or carriers, but from observations of the Supply Dept on a tender. The Suppo encouraged his JO's away from interest in seamanship or other shipboard activities as non-career enhansing. Intra - Supply Corp politics were encouraged.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/24/2006 22:34 Comments ||
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PARIS, Texas (AP) - Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf underwent routine testing with his doctor Saturday during an unannounced visit to this rural East Texas town.
Because that's where foreign heads of state go when they have a heart exam -- not the Cleveland Clinic, not the Mayo, but to a rural Texas town. Happens all the time.
Musharraf, whose surprise appearance came a day after visiting President Bush in Washington, was ``found to be in excellent health,'' according to a statement from Paris Regional Medical Center.
Pakistan Information Minister Mohammed Ali Durrani told The Associated Press on Saturday that Musharraf, 63, visited a friend in Texas who is a cardiologist and suggested he be examined. ``He went through that,'' Durrani said. ``All systems are go. Everything is fine. He is as fit as a horse.''
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#11
TR - you're being baited/played for your condescending attitude.
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/24/2006 19:27 Comments ||
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#12
Musharraf, 63, visited a friend in Texas who is a cardiologist and suggested he be examined.
Not all that surprising. Went in discuss w/ my doctor about a non-medical subject and mentioned I was going to make an appointment in a couple of weeks for a physical. Five minutes later, I was undergoing one.
#13
TR - you're being baited/played for your condescending attitude.
Really? And here I thought that "6" was playing Tommy to my Dick. Smothers that is. Thanks Frank, but I know that. It's good practice, keeps the condescension and sarcasm honed to a fine edge.
Pakistan on Sunday denied rumours of a coup attempt against President Pervez Musharraf while he is visiting the United States.
Newspaper offices and journalists were inundated with telephone calls and text messages inquiring about the rumours, which coincided with a widespread power cut.
But television programmes did not allude to them until Geo Television ran a ticker headline saying Information Minister Mohammad Ali Durrani had accused "rumor mongers" of exploiting the power cut.
Reuters made checks with senior government as well as military officials, and journalists saw nothing unusual in the capital or the neighboring garrison city of Rawalpindi.
Durrani, who is traveling with Musharraf, told Reuters from New York: "These rumours were sparked by the power breakdown. These are baseless. These rumours spread because televisions were off and telephones were on."
A military official who declined to be named added: "It's totally rubbish."
Last week Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted as Thai prime minister while attending the United Nations General Assembly in New York -- which Musharraf also attended.
MEDICAL CHECK
Durrani also said Musharraf had had a routine medical check-up in Texas with a Pakistani-American doctor.
"He is absolutely all right," he said.
Musharraf, who came to power in a bloodless military coup seven years ago and has controversially held onto his role as chief of army staff, is due to launch his autobiography, entitled "In the Line of Fire," in New York on Monday.
He also has a second meeting with President George W. Bush, along with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, and is due back in Pakistan by the end of the week.
Power cuts are not unusual in Pakistan but Sunday's outage, which blacked out large parts of the country including Islamabad, Rawalpindi and the eastern city of Lahore for several hours, was unusually extensive.
Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said maintenance work on a transmission line in northern Pakistan had caused the breakdown, and officials at the state-run power utility ruled out sabotage.
Musharraf has survived several assassination attempts since withdrawing Pakistan's support for the Taliban in neighboring Afghanistan in 2001, after the Islamist militia refused to surrender its guest, Osama bin Laden, in the wake of al Qaeda's September 11 attacks on the United States.
While fears of assassination remain, speculation about Musharraf's grip on power is seldom heard, as there is no overt political challenge to him.
Leaders of the mainstream opposition parties are living in exile, and while some Islamist leaders talk of toppling the president, most diplomats and analysts reckon Musharraf could only be ousted by a coup from within the military.
Posted by: john ||
09/24/2006 18:00 ||
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Jeeez, old boy goes to the walk-in in Thalia and a coupe-de-grass breaks out. Whata Charles of a country.
PAKISTAN defiantly dug in its heels yesterday and insisted it would not allow foreign forces to enter its territory in search of Osama bin Laden, setting the stage for a major new clash between President Pervez Musharraf and critics who claim Islamabad is double-dealing with al-Qa'ida and the Taliban.
Speaking in the Pakistani capital, senior government officials rejected absolutely the notion of foreign forces setting foot inside the country to hunt bin Laden and other senior al-Qa'ida and Taliban figures who Western intelligence sources are convinced are hiding in the remote territory of North Waziristan, close to the Afghan border.
Tasnim Aslam, a senior official in Islamabad, said: "Any terrorist action to be taken inside Pakistani territory would be taken by Pakistan. He (Musharraf) has said that he would not allow foreign troops to come inside our territory."
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Posted by: john ||
09/24/2006 16:37 ||
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#1
Leave bin Laden to us: Musharraf
Must've been lifted from Pelosi's talking points.
Said with the same degree of conviction.
Will deliver with the same degree of effectiveness.
#2
"We will do it ourselves," he said. "We are able to do everything, wherever we locate anybody. There have been many such occasions where we have located al-Qa'ida or Taliban activity and we have struck with full force."
Yeah. Right.
Unless "struck with full force" means trucking in supplies.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
09/24/2006 17:04 Comments ||
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#3
Leave bin Laden to us: Musharraf
Circumstances have already seen to that. Quite unsatisfactorily, I might add. Your turn in the ring is over, Perv. Now it's time for those who are truly committed to see an end of this farce go a few rounds. I look forward to a vastly different outcome than that which Pakistan has provided so far.
"He (Musharraf) has said that he would not allow foreign troops to come inside our territory."
Too bad assumptions there: first that we'd ask and second that he could stop us.
#5
That Pakistan could stop us in an area they have ceeded control of to terrorists is a laugh. It's clear to anyone that cares to look Pakistan is not up to it.
Nothing about Gen Musharraf should evoke surprise. But despite all his dramatic trapeze acts, like moving from backing Taliban to becoming its adversary in a twinkle, the Pakistan president continues to display an uncanny ability to leave his audience gasping.
There could be gasps at the General's audacity. His latest take on Kargil in his to-be-released book, In the Line of Fire is that it was all about thwarting a "creeping" Indian attack! Sneak reports say he blames India for Kargil, lauds the role of the Pakistani army and says India made up Pakistani incursions. Excerpts from the book have been aired by some TV channels.
"The Indian forces have been creeping forward since and despite the Simla Agreement and it was because of this that the Pakistan Army decided to reinforce Pakistan's forward positions along the LoC," and that "Pakistani manoeuvres were conducted flawlessly with Indians being completely oblivious of Pakistan's new strength," he says and you can almost see him flick a spot of dust off his military tunic.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: john ||
09/24/2006 16:28 ||
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you can almost see him flick a spot of dust off his military tunic.
The fugitive Taliban commander Mullah Omar has emerged as the key player behind the movement's controversial peace deal with Pakistan.
The Taliban's one-eyed spiritual leader, who has a $10 million price on his head for refusing to hand over Osama bin Laden after the September 11 attacks, signed a letter explicitly endorsing the truce announced this month. The deal between the Pakistani authorities and pro-Taliban militants in the tribal provinces bordering Afghanistan was designed to end five years of bloodshed in the area.
In return for an end to the US-backed government campaign in Waziristan, the tribal leaders - who have harboured Taliban and al-Qaeda units for more than five years - agreed to halt attacks on Pakistani troops, more than 500 of whom have been killed. The deal has been widely criticised as over-generous, with no way to enforce the Taliban's promise not to enter Afghanistan to attack coalition troops.
The disclosure that Mullah Omar personally backed the deal will come as a fresh embarrassment to Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf, who met President Bush in Washington on Friday to discuss security in the region.
While officially a US ally in the war on terror, Pakistan has been repeatedly accused by Afghanistan of not doing enough to clear Taliban militants out of its border regions, allegations it denies. However, Mullah Omar clearly felt that the deal benefited the Taliban, adding force to criticisms that it was in effect a cave-in. Tribal elders in south Waziristan said that Mullah Omar had sent one of his most trusted and feared commanders, Mullah Dadullah, to ask local militants to sign the truce. Dadullah, a one-legged fighter known for his fondness for beheading his enemies, is believed to be the man leading the campaign in southern Afghanistan in which 18 British troops have been killed.
"Had they been not asked by Mullah Omar, none of them were willing to sign an agreement," said Lateef Afridi, a tribal elder and former national assembly member. "This is no peace agreement, it is accepting Taliban rule in Pakistan's territory."
Waziristan has a 50-mile border with Afghanistan's Paktika province, long a trouble spot for US and Afghan forces in their battle against al-Qaeda and Taliban renegades. It is home to three tiers of Islamists who operate freely. Of greatest security concern is the al-Qaeda element, followed by Afghani Taliban and then local Taliban.
In return for a reduction in the Pakistani army's 80,000-strong presence and the release of about 165 hardcore militants arrested for attacks on Pakistani armed forces, local Taliban agreed to stop supporting the foreign militants in their midst, and promised not to set up their own fundamentalist administrations.
The government also agreed to compensate tribal leaders for the loss of life and property, and to return all weapons and vehicles seized during army operations.
Critics say the deal is a dangerous climb-down by Gen Musharraf, who is under huge pressure from religious conservatives in his own country to curb his US-backed fight against militant Islam.
Posted by: john ||
09/24/2006 10:16 ||
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#1
Mullah Omar - Peacemaker
feh
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/24/2006 10:56 Comments ||
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#2
Not a cave-in but rather a well-planned complicity made to appear as a cave-in. Pakis and Talibunnies go hand-in-hand.
#3
Perv relys too much on the religious parties to stay in power.Shouldnt the West be supporting the democratic parties in Pakland to counter Perv ie Bhutto & Co?????
#4
There aren't any democratic parties. You have a choice of oligarchs, the military, or religious fantactics. It's like the Phillippines, minus the tropical landscape and decent people.
QUETTA: Mohammad Rafiq on Saturday assumed the post of acting district nazim of Dera Bugti, following the passing of a no-confidence motion against former district nazim Kazim Bugti, sources said. The Dera Bugti District Council, they said, had moved the no-trust motion against Kazim, a staunch supporter of the late Nawab Akbar Bugti, due to his extended absence from the post. Sixteen out of a total of 19 district councillors supported the motion. The demand for Kazim's removal was also raised at the government-backed jirga of Bugti tribesman, convened on August 24, two days before the killing of the nawab.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 08:34 ||
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#1
Go BugtiS! Find a pipeline and blast it. You are one with the universe.
A grim warning about "further intensification" of terrorist attacks involving greater use of fidayeen elements to target religious, economic and other "sensitive objects" was the centrepoint of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's address to the conclave of Congress Chief Ministers in Nainital today. He asked the Chief Ministers to tone up the intelligence machinery in the states, concentrate on "actionable" intelligence and make the entire bureaucracy accountable, said reports received from Nainital.
Addressing their two-day conclave presided by Congress President Sonia Gandhi here, he talked about the internal security situation mainly the issues of terrorism, communal tension and naxalism.
"The concern is that there could be a further intensification involving greater use of fidayeen elements and targeting of a wider range of religious, economic and sensitive objects," Singh told the Chief Ministers of 14 Congress-ruled states. He rejected the "erroneous linkage" made by the West in tarnishing the image of the Muslim community due to the actions of a few. He said that "pro-active" efforts were needed to address the underlying sense of insecurity among sizeable sections of this minority.
Continued on Page 49
Pakistan and Britain have agreed on the formation of a joint working group to strengthen intelligence sharing between the two countries, Pakistan's interior minister said on Saturday. Aftab Ahmad Khan Sherpao told a private television channel that officials from the interior ministries of the two countries would cooperate with each other to improve anti-terrorism capabilities and to stop human trafficking and smuggling.
Sherpao told Geo-television that the new joint working group under intelligence sharing forum is similar to that of joint working group of the US intelligence monitoring with Britain. He said that the British experts would impart training of sensitive intelligence equipment to Pakistani officials.
About the agreement on handing over of criminals, the interior minister said that two governments have agreed on it, but said that according to government policy, any agreement is to be approved by the cabinet before signing it with another government. He said the proposed agreement has been sent to the cabinet for approval. Officials from both countries would sign the agreement.
Continued on Page 49
#1
When asked as to what evidence the British intelligence agencies have gathered regarding the alleged plane conspiracy case, Aftab Sherpao said that he cannot share more information with the media, but said that important evidence have been found.
#3
The problem with sharing intelligence with the Paks (as several Indian newspapers have noted with regard to the latest Indo-Pak deal) is that this exposes your sources and methods.
They'll know exactly what and whom you monitor and adjust the terror ops to avoid your gaze.
Posted by: john ||
09/24/2006 13:09 Comments ||
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#4
Why not share intelligence directly with Al Qaeda?
President Pervez Musharraf has revealed that his most embarrassing moment was when a US official placed in front of him concrete evidence of Pakistan's top scientist A Q Khan leaking nuclear secrets to Iran and North Korea. Musharraf claims he only suspected that Khan was passing secrets to Iran and North Korea until the then CIA Director George Tenet confronted him with proof at the United Nations in 2003. "(Tenet) took his briefcase out, passed me some papers. It was a centrifuge design with all its numbers and signatures of Pakistan. It was the most embarrassing moment," he admits in an interview to CBS news.
Musharraf learned then, he says, that not only were blueprints being given to Iran and North Korea, but the centrifuges themselves - the crucial technology needed to enrich uranium to weapons grade - were being passed to them. "(Khan) gave them centrifuge designs. He gave them centrifuge parts. He gave them centrifuges," he said.
Despite the fact that the military was guarding Khan's nuclear facilities and the total amount of secret material sent from the laboratory was more than 18 tons, Musharraf denies anyone in the government or military had to know. "First of all these centrifuges, or their parts, these are not huge elements. They can be put in your car and moved," he says. "(The shipments) were not done once. They must have been transported many times."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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If Perv is so enraged, he can place Khan into our hands for some less-than-gentle questioning.
[Our special prisoner requires the # 4 truncheon, Miggs, if you please.]
#2
Perv is making quite the understatement here. That incident was much worse than embarrassing. The worlds very first nuclear exchange will be directly traceable back to Khan. If Oppenhiemer was referencing himself when he quoted Hindu scripture he was wrong, it is Khan who is death, the destroyer of worlds.
#3
Embarassing? Embarassment is what one feels when caught propositioning one's hostess, or pissing on the rosebush. Not what one feels when one's pet scientist is revealed to be doing what one ordered him to do. Just how stupid does he think we are?
Iraq's fractious ethnic and religious parliamentary groups agreed Sunday to open debate on a contentious Shiite-proposed draft legislation that will allow the creation of federal regions in Iraq, politicians said.
The agreement came after a compromise was reached with Sunni Arabs on setting up a parliamentary committee to amend Iraq's constitution, a key demand by the minority. The committee will be set up Monday and the federalism bill will be read to the body a day later, Sunni and Shiite politicians said.
The deal opens the way for Iraq's Shiites, Sunni Arabs and Kurds to move ahead politically and break a two-week political deadlock that threatened to further sour relations between the communities. If left unresolved, the deadlock could have further shaken Iraq's fragile democracy and led to more sectarian violence.
Continued on Page 49
#1
There will be a federal Iraq, despite the Sunni seething and threats. The Shiia and the Kurds have the numbers. It only remains to be seen where the lines are drawn and what is done about Bagdhad.
A music video depicting a Shahid (Martyr for Allah) being rewarded by marrying the Dark Eyed Maidens (Virgins) of Paradise has returned to Palestinian Authority (PA) television. The clip portrays a woman being shot in the back by Israeli soldiers. She is immediately transported to Paradise, where she joins other Maidens wearing identical long white gowns, all joyously dancing in water, waiting to marry their Shahid. PA version of a Busby Berkley Esther Williams Movie.
The next scenes depict sthe grieving man visiting the woman's grave. He is likewise shot in the back by soldiers, and immediately transported to heaven to his reward of "Maidens."
This is one of the longest-running music videos on PA TV and had been broadcast incessantly for years, often several times a day during the PA terror war (2000-2005). This recurring image of the Martyr being rewarded by receiving the Maidens was part of the multifaceted PA campaign glorifying and encouraging terror, and promoting suicide terror as idyllic Shahada (Martyrdom for Allah). In Paleoland MTV stands for Martyrdom T. V.
And of course, the ONLY way that Muslims are martyred is by being shot in the back by Israelis. Peaceful as Quakers and Buddhists, those muslims.
After an absence of more than a year, PA TV has begun broadcasting this video clip regularly for the past month. Ugh, Summer re-runs!!
The belief that man is rewarded with beautiful women in Paradise is based on Islamic traditions in the Quran [Suras 42, 44, 52, 56, and others] and the Hadith (traditions attributed to Muhammad), and is expressed regularly in many parts of PA society. A Religion of Piece (not Peace)
#2
Ummm, Okay, she was married, but still she's a virgin?
I guess it's no more stupid than the rest of their beliefs, (Or maybe he was really lax in his marrage)
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
09/24/2006 13:59 Comments ||
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#3
Anonymoose: Eww. Once was enough. But I guess you've got an interesting point in that the virgins don't necessarily have to be female! :-)
Here's a thought: The Paleostinians who are stoopid enough to fall for that martyrdom crap should thank the Israelis for sending their friends and family off to paradise [heck, even the immediate 200 family members run around all happy for a few days after the glorious event]. Instead, they get all pi$$ed off every time one of them gets whacked by the Israelis for trying to do something inhuman.
Snark away, I enjoy it! But really: Why the disconnect? It's my impression that even the martyr's family and friends get to ride into paradise on the martyr's coattails! Perhaps you need animosity to continue the Jihad, because without Jihad, you can't have martyrs and nobody gets into heaven because nobody is doing anything worth getting into heaven for. Perhaps they think they've found the biggest loophole in creation and are rushing to take advantage of it before it gets closed. Instead of Jihad, perhaps the media ought to start pushing the arab word for "immoral conflict" instead of the word for "legitimate struggle" [Jihad]. It might give muslims pause for thought at least. Might knock a few off the fence into the moderate camp, too, for those who actually believe you can't fool God or explain away that studied ignorance on the whole legitimate struggle/martyrdom thingy to get into paradise.
PALESTINIAN efforts to forge a national unity government are back at square one, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said today. Speaking after talks in Cairo with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Mr Abbas accused the Islamist group Hamas of reneging on agreements with Fatah. "Unfortunately after this agreement was signed there were regressions from it... and unfortunately we are back to point zero, and we will examine the issue anew," Mr Abbas said.
Mr Abbas is trying to build a coalition of his moderate Fatah party and Hamas, which defeated it in elections in January. A deal on a unity government was reached on September 11 and talks on the coalition's formation have faltered since. Mr Abbas said the U.S. and European states in the U.N. Security Council did not find Hamas's position "conducive to building a national unity government".
Mr Abbas said Thursday's attempt by the Arab League to get the Security Council involved in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was not intended to seek a new decision by the Council, but an effort to have the U.S.-led road map for Middle East peace implemented. "We went to focus on implementing this decision, because we believe the road map plan is sufficient, if it is taken seriously," Mr Abbas said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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Following a wave of protests against Pope Benedict's remarks on Islam, Muslim intellectuals in Turkey are asking what he really thinks about their faith and what long-term consequences his views will have. Muslim thinkers in Turkey, where the German-born Pontiff is due on a sensitive visit in late November, suspect Benedict suffers from 'Orientalist' delusions about Islam and wants to move the Roman Catholic Church away from dialogue with it.
His argument that Christianity is rational could be an indirect way of saying Islam is unreasonable and has no place in Christian-rooted Europe, they say. At the same time, they set clear limits on the dialogue they want, boxing it into a series of polite exchanges where the tough issues Benedict wants to discuss risk remaining taboo.
"He should explain a lot of things. His apology was not enough for the feelings of the Muslim world," said Bekir Karliaga, philosophy professor at Istanbul's Marmara University.
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Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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Religion and violence are two different things
Not as muzzies are concerned, violence is their religion.
#6
At the same time, they set clear limits on the dialogue they want, boxing it into a series of polite exchanges where the tough issues Benedict wants to discuss risk remaining taboo.
Herewith the polite, educated version of the showtrial debate I discussed yesterday. The threat is no less there for all it isn't mentioned in cultured, erudite terms instead of marching in smelly masses around the landscape waving sharp things in the air. "Orientalist" is a key indicator as well, being how the modern students of the history of the Islamic world refer with curled lip to their putatively Eurocentric, judgemental predecessors. They are feeling their oats over there, aren't they?
#7
Usak rejected proposals for Muslims to read the Koran in a less literal way to bring their understanding of it more in line with the modern world. "It's impossible and against reality to ask a Muslim to reinterpret the Koran," Usak declared.
And yet the only way for Islam to survive in the modern world is to reinterpret the Koran in such a way as to allow Muslims to live peacefully with the rest of us.
#9
My wife does this, if she doesn't want to hear the truth, she loudly discusses something (Anything) else, then pretends she was talking about the new subject all along and why am I trying to change the subject.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
09/24/2006 14:02 Comments ||
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#10
His argument that Christianity is rational could be an indirect way of saying Islam is unreasonable and has no place in Christian-rooted Europe.
#11
Iff Jesus Christ survived the Roman crucifixion process, he's the only personage in all human history who has, various mortal wounds, etal. notwithstanding.
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso was quoted as saying on Saturday that more European leaders should have spoken out in support of the Pope after he made his disputed comments on Islam. "I was disappointed there were not more European leaders who said 'naturally the Pope has the right to express his views'," Barroso was quoted as saying to the Welt am Sonntag newspaper. "The problem is not the statements of the Pope but the reaction of the extremists," the paper quoted him as saying in a preview of an article to appear on Sunday.
Pope Benedict XVI has said his much-criticised speech in Regensburg, Germany earlier this month in which he quoted a 14th century Byzantine emperor as saying Islam was evil and violent, did not reflect his own thinking. The speech by the leader of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics has provoked al Qaeda groups to declare war on the Church, Iraqis to burn the Pope's effigy and Turks to petition for his arrest.
Barroso said the caution on the part of European leaders was probably due to "worries about a possible confrontation" as well as a "certain form of political correctness."
"We have to defend our values," he said. "We should also encourage the moderate leaders in the Muslim world -- and they're the majority -- to distance themselves from this extremism," Barroso was quoted as saying.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
LOL! Check out the graphic!
In all fairness though, I don't recall the US having much to say about the Self-Righteous Islamic Temper Tantrum either.
The Americans are more like the silent strong Gary Cooper High Noon types. We've been busy building a body count of the intemperate goons. Notice how the trash starts targeting women and children for their attacks when they find Americans too difficult and deadly to unload upon. Same is going to pop up in the international arena too.
#3
I know we don't really need to say much, everyone knows where we stand. But it seems to me we ought to say something just to formalize it and make an example for the rest of the world to think about. Absent the US saying something, nobody else will apparently, and now is as good a time to say something as there will ever be.
#4
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso was quoted as saying on Saturday that more European leaders should have spoken out in support of the Pope
Tens of thousands of Lebanese have attended an annual mass to commemorate Christian fighters killed in the 1975-90 civil war and to hear a speech by the Lebanese Forces party leader, Samir Geagea. Crowds flocked to a cathedral in Harissa, north of Beirut, to attend the mass on Sunday.
We are the victors because it was us who were demanding the army's deployment in south Lebanon, backed by Unifil, while they were opposed...
The rally came two days after hundreds of thousands attended a demonstration in Beirut organised by the Shia Muslim militia, Hezbollah, to celebrate what it called its recent "victory" over Israel in the month-long conflict.
Geagea said: "We are the victors, and yet we do not feel it was victory but rather that a real catastrophe befell our country, and that our fate and destiny are at the mercy of the winds." Supporters waved his picture, and the white, red and green flags of the Lebanese Forces as the party leader spoke at the shrine of the Virgin Mary in Harissa. "We are the victors because it was us who were demanding the [Lebanese] army's deployment [in south Lebanon], backed by Unifil [peacekeepers], while they were opposed," he said without naming Hezbollah.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 15:26 ||
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NAQURA, Lebanon - The Lebanese army, backed by UN peacekeepers, took up positions Saturday for the first time in decades on the Blue Line border demarcation with Israel, after Israeli troops withdrew from the region. Around 400 soldiers supported by tanks were deployed at five points on the borders western sector, including at Naqura on the Mediterranean coast and Labbuneh, three kilometres (two miles) inland, an army spokesman told AFP.
The posts, set up with the support of a Ghanaian armoured unit of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), stand some 100 metres (yards) from Israeli army positions on the other side of the border.
The spokesman said Lebanese soldiers were also deployed at Hula, Markaba and Mays Al Jabal, leaving the Israeli army in the western sector holding on to only a single post in Marwahin, some 30 km east of Naqura.
UNIFIL commander Major General Alain Pelligrini said on Friday that Israeli forces withdrew from more points on the UN-demarcated Blue Line and should have pulled out completely by the end of this month.
Pellegrini said the Israeli army pulled out of an area south of Naqura, and the general area of the Lebanese village of Mays Al Jabal, clearing the way for UNIFIL to coordinate the deployment of Lebanese troops in the areas. The Israelis have vacated most of the territory in the south, he said. We are almost there, and with the assistance of UNIFIL, Lebanese armed forces will very soon be able to take control of the whole south Lebanon including the areas along the Blue Line, he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
There will be no excuse NEXT time. ALL of Lebanon belongs to Israel.
COMPIEGNE, France - Russia intends to send troops to Lebanon, but not as part of the UN peacekeeping force there and only if all parties in the region agree, President Vladimir Putin confirmed on Saturday.
Moscow is prepared to send a small deployment of engineers to Lebanon, Putin said after a three-way summit with French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Angela Merkel north of Paris. We dont intend to do this within the UNIFIL framework, but rather within a bilateral framework, he told a joint media conference.
Russias defence ministry said Thursday there were plans to send 300 military engineers to Lebanon for reconstruction work following the 34-day war in July and August between Hezbollah and Israel. The soldiers -- 100 fewer than originally forecast were to rebuild six bridges near Saida (or Sidon, 40 km south of Beirut) destroyed by Israeli bombardments, according to Russian General Ivan Tsyganov. Tsyganov said the men, from Russias 100th engineering battalion, would likely travel to Lebanon in early October.
Russia has insisted that this batallion will be deployed independently of the expanded UNIFIL, which is currently under French command with a mandate to prevent renewed hostilities in southern Lebanon.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
As always with Putty, I smell a whiff of a rat (mayhaps the arms sales were declining for the last quarter). OTOH, his insistence on deployment NOT under auspices of UN makes sense and indicates what Putty thinks of the institution.
THE Saudi government late on Saturday pulled the rug from under a French newspaper report about the alleged death of Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, saying in a statement that it "has no evidence to support" the contention.
"The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has no evidence to support recent media reports that Osama bin Laden is dead," the Saudi Embassy here said in a statement. "Information that has been reported otherwise is purely speculative and cannot be independently verified." I like what super hose said: Al-Q is a PR machine. They need to come out with Binnie tapes now to refute rumour. Then we can make more progress in pinpointing him - if he's alive
I won't believe he's alive until I see a video of him with this week's NFL picks ...
#10
Since they're either safe-keeping him at a secret location in Soddie or are well-informed and connected to the ISI officials that are safe-guarding Binny, most of what the Soddies say amounts to a pile of beans.
France and the United States said on Saturday they could not confirm a report that Osama bin Laden had died and France launched a probe into how a secret document containing the claim was leaked. French regional daily L'Est Republican, published in Nancy, quoted a document from France's DGSE foreign intelligence service as saying the Saudi secret services were convinced the al Qaeda leader had died of typhoid in Pakistan in late August. Time magazine separately posted an article on its website citing an unidentified Saudi source, who claimed bin Laden was stricken with a water-borne disease and may already be dead.
A U.S. intelligence source separately said Washington had no evidence this report was any more credible than earlier rumors of bin Laden's demise.
President Jacques Chirac told reporters bin Laden's death "has not been confirmed in any way whatsoever, and so I have no comment to make."
"I was a bit surprised to see that a confidential note from the DGSE had been published," he said after a summit with leaders of Germany and Russia.
The Saudi Interior Ministry was not available for comment. Officials in the United States, which has made capturing bin Laden a priority in its war on terrorism, were unable to confirm the account. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters in New York: "No comment, no knowledge," when asked about the French article. A U.S. intelligence source separately said Washington had no evidence this report was any more credible than earlier rumors of bin Laden's demise.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#2
UBL:
I don't want to go on the cart!
ZARAHIRI:
Oh, don't be such a baby.
CART MASTER:
I can't take him.
UBL:
I feel fine!
ZARAHIRI:
Well, do us a favour.
CART MASTER:
I can't.
ZARAHIRI:
Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
CART MASTER:
No, I've got to go to see the Taliban. They've lost nine today.
ZARAHIRI:
Well, when's your next round?
CART MASTER:
Thursday.
UBL:
I think I'll go for a walk.
ZARAHIRI:
You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
UBL: [singing]
I feel happy. I feel happy.
[whop]
ZARAHIRI:
Ah, thanks very much.
CART MASTER:
Not at all. See you on Thursday.
ZARAHIRI:
Right. All right.
[howl]I
[clop clop clop]
Who's that, then?
CART MASTER:
I dunno. Must be the 12th Imam.
ZARAHIRI:
Why?
CART MASTER:
He hasn't got @#$% all over him.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/24/2006 16:39 Comments ||
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#3
Closure vv 9-11 will not occur until Osama's corpus dilecti is verified. During WW2, multiple Amer fighter pilot sources saw Yamamoto's plane go down in flames, to which Japan acknowledged his death and held a national state funeral/procession for his ashes.
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Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Former President Bill Clinton, angrily defending his efforts to capture Osama bin Laden, accused the Bush administration of doing far less to stop the al Qaeda leader before the September 11 attacks. In a heated interview to be aired on Sunday on "Fox News Sunday," the former Democratic president defended the steps he took after al Qaeda's attack on the USS Cole in 2000 and faulted "right-wingers" for their criticism of his efforts to capture Osama bin Laden.
QUETTA: Mohammad Rafiq on Saturday assumed the post of acting district nazim of Dera Bugti, following the passing of a no-confidence motion against former district nazim Kazim Bugti, sources said. The Dera Bugti District Council, they said, had moved the no-trust motion against Kazim, a staunch supporter of the late Nawab Akbar Bugti, due to his extended absence from the post. Sixteen out of a total of 19 district councillors supported the motion. The demand for Kazim's removal was also raised at the government-backed jirga of Bugti tribesman, convened on August 24, two days before the killing of the nawab.
Pakistan and Britain have agreed on the formation of a joint working group to strengthen intelligence sharing between the two countries, Pakistan's interior minister said on Saturday. Aftab Ahmad Khan Sherpao told a private television channel that officials from the interior ministries of the two countries would cooperate with each other to improve anti-terrorism capabilities and to stop human trafficking and smuggling.
President Pervez Musharraf has revealed that his most embarrassing moment was when a US official placed in front of him concrete evidence of Pakistan's top scientist A Q Khan leaking nuclear secrets to Iran and North Korea. Musharraf claims he only suspected that Khan was passing secrets to Iran and North Korea until the then CIA Director George Tenet confronted him with proof at the United Nations in 2003. "(Tenet) took his briefcase out, passed me some papers. It was a centrifuge design with all its numbers and signatures of Pakistan. It was the most embarrassing moment," he admits in an interview to CBS news. 
Iraq's fractious ethnic and religious parliamentary groups agreed Sunday to open debate on a contentious Shiite-proposed draft legislation that will allow the creation of federal regions in Iraq, politicians said.
A music video depicting a Shahid (Martyr for Allah) being rewarded by marrying the Dark Eyed Maidens (Virgins) of Paradise has returned to Palestinian Authority (PA) television. The clip portrays a woman being shot in the back by Israeli soldiers. She is immediately transported to Paradise, where she joins other Maidens wearing identical long white gowns, all joyously dancing in water, waiting to marry their Shahid. 
PALESTINIAN efforts to forge a national unity government are back at square one, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said today. Speaking after talks in Cairo with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Mr Abbas accused the Islamist group Hamas of reneging on agreements with Fatah. "Unfortunately after this agreement was signed there were regressions from it... and unfortunately we are back to point zero, and we will examine the issue anew," Mr Abbas said.
Following a wave of protests against Pope Benedict's remarks on Islam, Muslim intellectuals in Turkey are asking what he really thinks about their faith and what long-term consequences his views will have. Muslim thinkers in Turkey, where the German-born Pontiff is due on a sensitive visit in late November, suspect Benedict suffers from 'Orientalist' delusions about Islam and wants to move the Roman Catholic Church away from dialogue with it. 
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso was quoted as saying on Saturday that more European leaders should have spoken out in support of the Pope after he made his disputed comments on Islam. "I was disappointed there were not more European leaders who said 'naturally the Pope has the right to express his views'," Barroso was quoted as saying to the Welt am Sonntag newspaper. "The problem is not the statements of the Pope but the reaction of the extremists," the paper quoted him as saying in a preview of an article to appear on Sunday.
NAQURA, Lebanon - The Lebanese army, backed by UN peacekeepers, took up positions Saturday for the first time in decades on the Blue Line border demarcation with Israel, after Israeli troops withdrew from the region. Around 400 soldiers supported by tanks were deployed at five points on the borders western sector, including at Naqura on the Mediterranean coast and Labbuneh, three kilometres (two miles) inland, an army spokesman told AFP.
COMPIEGNE, France - Russia intends to send troops to Lebanon, but not as part of the UN peacekeeping force there and only if all parties in the region agree, President Vladimir Putin confirmed on Saturday.
France and the United States said on Saturday they could not confirm a report that Osama bin Laden had died and France launched a probe into how a secret document containing the claim was leaked. French regional daily L'Est Republican, published in Nancy, quoted a document from France's DGSE foreign intelligence service as saying the Saudi secret services were convinced the al Qaeda leader had died of typhoid in Pakistan in late August. Time magazine separately posted an article on its website citing an unidentified Saudi source, who claimed bin Laden was stricken with a water-borne disease and may already be dead. 
