Article

2008-02-09 Home Front: Politix

Veterans "Swift Boating" McCain: Made 32 Propaganda Tapes For Hanoi

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by www 2008-02-09 01:25|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ] Top

#1 I'm sure if we apply enough torture to anyone, we can get statements and film that forty years later can be used against anyone trying to obtain an office too. Would anyone from VVAM like to volunteer to prove that point?

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-02-09 09:27|| 2008-02-09 09:27|| Front Page Top

#2 Can anyone explain why Vietnam would hold POWs after the war? It never made sense to me. It costs money to guard and feed prisoners and you'd risk exposure.

People don't just hold onto liabilities because of vengeance.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-02-09 10:54|| 2008-02-09 10:54|| Front Page Top

#3 People don't just hold onto liabilities because of vengeance.

You've never dealt with the Oriental mindset.

Posted by Pappy 2008-02-09 13:09|| 2008-02-09 13:09|| Front Page Top

#4 rjs: People don't just hold onto liabilities because of vengeance.

Private individuals don't. When you're a communist leader, and you're using "the people's resources", who cares? If liberals had to pay extra (over and above other people) to support their cradle-to-grave welfare schemes, they'd be a lot less likely to support them. But they have the rest of the taxpayers to support their pet causes, which is what liberalism is all above - other people's money used in the service of private causes.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2008-02-09 13:41|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2008-02-09 13:41|| Front Page Top

#5 First, when McCain appologises for that I will forgive him, but he has tried everything to bury the facts. What does that make him ?
Second, the MIAs may have become human experiments. What does successfully blocking the release of information make him ?
This is why some prefer Hitlery to McCrudd.

Posted by wxjames 2008-02-09 13:43|| 2008-02-09 13:43|| Front Page Top

#6 That didn't take long. I expected it to begin around May-June time frame. This round against McCain will make the real Swiftboaters look like Kerry supporters. Moreover, John shouldn't expect any help from his "friends" in the MSM.

Posted by GK 2008-02-09 14:05|| 2008-02-09 14:05|| Front Page Top

#7 he has tried everything to bury the facts. What does that make him ?

Human.

I've got issues with McCain. None of them involve his time as a POW. If they're lucky they'll roll this out now, because it's not a winner. No matter what he did, he did it during 5 years of hell he personally endured with the intent to keep me free. He's a wartime hero.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-02-09 14:34|| 2008-02-09 14:34|| Front Page Top

#8 I don't know what happened in Hanoi and I supported Romney over McCain.

That said, Ross Perot has publicly stated he will try to derail McCain's candidacy over the POW issue. Perot deliberately sabotaged one Republican presidency - do we need to allow him to do so a second time?

OTOH I had the sense that there were people in the late 70s - early 80s that simply would not believe there were no more POWs to be rescued. The issue became a surrogate for supporting the war, when we had surrendered and withdrew disgracefully. OTOH, there was a lot done badly by our government in that war so conspiracy stories found it easy to gain traction.

Moreover I personally know a former Marine pilot who stashed a fortune in gold in Swiss accounts from running heroin and whores during the war and who may have done work for the CIA. He probably was not alone in that sort of thing. There's likely to be stuff in those files that goes way beyond MIA/POW info, which might complicate matters re: their release.

So it's hard for me to sort this out. I'll rely on my career military uncle and cousins who served multiple tours in Nam and in one case flew tree-top missions over countries we officially were NOT operating in and who was told he would be disavowed and not rescued if his plane went down. They felt the POW issue was being artificially prolonged. And they suspected that honorable men who had broken under torture would have their names dragged in the mud and relive the torture again if the files were released.

My older uncle (Silver Star, multiple Bronze Stars, multiple purple hearts at Bastogne in an earlier war, still suffers from those wounds and from a 47% casualty rate in his regiment) also thought the issue should be allowed to rest.

FWIW.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-09 14:37|| 2008-02-09 14:37|| Front Page Top

#9 "Can anyone explain why Vietnam would hold POWs after the war?"

Don't forget North Viet-Nam held on to French prisoners and remains in violation of their peace agreements. They released them in dribs and drabs to humiliate the French and extort money.

As late as the 1970's the North Vietnamese were still demanding money in order to return the remains of French soldiers.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al 2008-02-09 14:50|| 2008-02-09 14:50|| Front Page Top

#10 I feel we need to focus on the end of the game here.
I expect liberals to bash McCain, but not Rantburgians, at least not now that he's the clear runner. Put aside any and all of your distaste for McCain, he is the least worst as they say. We need to unite and show support, don't play into the hands of liberals trying to bash McCain. McCain wasn't my choice either, but do you want Clinton or Obama?

I don't feel it's right to sit in judgement of someone who spent years in hell.

Posted by Jan 2008-02-09 15:08|| 2008-02-09 15:08|| Front Page Top

#11 his POW days should be off limits

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-09 15:25|| 2008-02-09 15:25|| Front Page Top

#12 Gosh what did they do to Senator Kerry to make him betray his country? Any statement made by someone while detained by a enemy is way WAY off base.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2008-02-09 16:06|| 2008-02-09 16:06|| Front Page Top

#13 It is not right to judge McCain for this, but it is equally wrong to run for President with this kind of shit stinking up the closet.
Does this country have such a shortage of good men that we need to recycle a lame war horse ?
McCain is a jerk. This will destroy him, and he will have wasted 4 years of contested American politics for his own personal need.
Phucking egocentric asshole. He's not flying over the kooko's nest this time, he's running for President. Do I need to add that a sane man would have declined ?

Posted by wxjames 2008-02-09 16:50|| 2008-02-09 16:50|| Front Page Top

#14 wx, you aren't one to be accusing others of being unhinged, IMHO

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-09 16:59|| 2008-02-09 16:59|| Front Page Top

#15 Frank, I'm not trying to run your country.
In fact, I don't wish to have anything to do with your life. I'm busy with my own broken hinge.

Posted by wxjames 2008-02-09 17:38|| 2008-02-09 17:38|| Front Page Top

#16 fair enuf. I'm puzzled by the "your country". I'd thought you were American

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-09 17:53|| 2008-02-09 17:53|| Front Page Top

#17 Does this country have such a shortage of good men that we need to recycle a lame war horse?

At the moment it would seem so, wxjames, at least in terms of those willing to run for president of the U.S.A. Else there would have been more, or different, candidates for both of the main parties. Perhaps things will be different four years from now.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-02-09 18:06|| 2008-02-09 18:06|| Front Page Top

#18 Does this country have such a shortage of good men that we need to recycle a lame war horse ?

A look at what was done to Romney and Thompson should suggest why good men don't run for president. And I'm not sure they should, nor that they would do a good job if they won the office.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-02-09 18:18|| 2008-02-09 18:18|| Front Page Top

#19 Guys, this is what I was referencing as a problem for McCain.

Its nto that there are any POWs, not did he cover up. Its that his ATTITUDE sucked, and his temper and rudeness came to the forefront with people working on these issues. Basically he was dubbed "McNasty" for his treatment of the veterans and POW familiy members who tried to get him to listen and help.

And by pissing those people off and being abruipt rude and having a "go f yourselves" attitude toward them, he made a lot of people into very hard enemies, some of whom are in the tinfoli hat groups liek the Paulbots. They saw a "conspiracy" and have been trying to weave that narrative of the "Manchurian Candidate" around McCain ever since.

ANyone around here knows me, knows I do not like MCCain, nor do I trust him. But the kind of stuff they are flinging around, surely manufactured from fevered fantasy, is beyond the pale and unacceptable.

As for the alleged propaganda? Never head of that before.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-02-09 19:12|| 2008-02-09 19:12|| Front Page Top

#20 I forecast a national clothes pin shortage beginning the first week of November this year.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-02-09 21:09|| 2008-02-09 21:09|| Front Page Top

#21 Not only was McCain tortured, and suffered broken bones, diseases and malnutrition at the hands of his captors, but is believed to also have a seldom mentioned periodic skin disease that is somewhat like excema, based in his imprisonment, along with reoccurring melanoma skin cancers.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-09 22:30|| 2008-02-09 22:30|| Front Page Top

23:49 Silentbrick
23:40 Silentbrick
23:40 Procopius2k
23:39 RD
23:33 RD
23:28 Eric Jablow
23:18 Eric Jablow
23:17 g(r)omgoru
23:09 Omung Squank9908
23:05 SR-71
22:59 SR-71
22:54 SR-71
22:51 Pappy
22:48 Icerigger
22:33 Hupumble Dark Lord of the Faith9512
22:30 Anonymoose
22:24 Barbara Skolaut
22:21 RD
22:21 Old Patriot
22:21 Old Patriot
22:16 RWV
22:12 Silentbrick
22:12 RWV
22:11 RD